Sig Sauer P320

[KP]

In 2014 Sig Sauer released its P320. As with many new products there were some serious problems starting with the dangerous drop firing problem and the minor take down lever problems etc. There was a great deal of criticism directed at Sig Sauer and rightly so. Several individuals were injured and they will never be the same again. However, as I see it eventually Sig Sauer did remedy the problem. Many critics seem to ignore the fact that other firearm manufactures including Glock when decades ago they introduced their "plastic pistols" had recalls and modifications of their pistols. I believe the P320 is now a good firearm.
Sig won military contracts for its M17 and M18 and many law enforcement departments have supplied their officers with P320s. The fact that a firearm manufacturers obtains military contracts and police contracts in and by itself does not carry a great deal of weight with me. For agencies including the military it appears to me that quality is not the primary issue. I believe agencies primary goal is obtain a decent/okay product for the least amount of money or for the greatest savings. Quality is secondary...and to tell you the truth I am not fully convinced that Glock's 19X submission was rightfully disqualified. Perhaps, Sig Sauer was given the contract because its bid was better than the bid submitted by Glock. I would not be surprise if Glock's 19X will be very popular with the public.
Nevertheless, I do believe the P320 is now a really good semi-autoloading pistol. In fact I use the P320 90% of the time as my everyday carry. Now the reason why I wrote this post on the Sig Sauer P320 is because I fail to understand why the P320 is not viewed more favorable by my fellow Pistol-Forum members. Considering all the auto-loading pistol posts there are just not that many postings about the P320. Although I have the P320 and it is my preferred autoloading pistol, I am in no way saying that the P320 is better than a Glock 17/19, however believe it or not the P320 is a good pistol. Would anyone like to share their comments and views on the P320?

[tyrusasmith]

I hate the P320 because I can shoot it faster than my P229 in most all metrics despite having spent enormous amounts of time dry and live firing my P229, and basically just picking the P320 off the table.
I tore two of them apart trying to figure out how to add a striker control type device to it, and it doesn't seem like the effect of a SCD will work without a manual safety. I wish it were an easy fix.
I like how the P2XX series guns' slide, barrel, and frame lock up. The P320 doesn't seem as expertly crafted with the bent tabs of the FCG, but it works so whatever.
I don't like the back of the slide because it isn't symmetrical, but it works so whatever.
I can really appreciate the machining that went into the slide to reduce the reciprocating weight on the full-size version.


Those are my thoughts. I haven't made the switch yet mostly because of the lack of a striker control device type setup.

[vandal]

I'm a big Glock guy, but currently in the market for a P320C or X-Compact. To get one in CA it has to be private party from a cop, and (if you can find one) they are typically 2-3x the MSRP due to supply and demand.

I'm mostly interested in the chassis modularity. Kudos to Sig for that. Particularly in a state constantly adding gun restrictions, the chassis versatility seems like a good hedge.

Being able to easily go from a compact to a full size grip could be advantageous when limited to two listed guns on a CCW permit. If I wanted a full size grip (maybe for a cold weather/exposed carry class) I could easily swap out. Or try a different thickness grip to get one that better fits my big hands.

The local CCW issuing agency will allow only modifications that are factory options. So technically putting a flat trigger shoe on a Glock would not be allowed. But Sig offers a factory flat trigger for the P320 so that would be allowed.

Not anticipating I would actually go so far as to swap out one of my two carry glocks for it, but I'm "P320 Curious."

[JAD]

I wouldn’t carry a pistol that didn’t have a means of controlling the striker.

[LockedBreech]

For me it’s not that I hate the P320. It seems fine. It’s the fact that right now it’s a very loaded field of contenders. Glock is innovating and producing new demand-driven models at a pace I’ve never seen from them, with arguably the best quality control in the history of the brand. Beretta has likewise tuned in hard to consumer demand and is producing models accordingly. Smith & Wesson is building on major improvements to a design that was already good.

All three of those brands produce a line of pistols in direct competition with the P320, and all three, arguably, are in better ownership and management hands than Cohen’s Sig. Sig is playing A++ ball right now marketing and landing contracts, but under Cohen there’s ever increasing small parts outsourcing. In a dark alley I’d still trust a Glock or M&P more.

Again, I’d agree the P320 platform is maturing nicely. But right now the competitors trip my trigger just a bit more.

Though I confess to having impure thoughts about the optics ready XCarry.


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[Balisong]

Nothing gives me the warm fuzzies quite like MIM gun parts made in India.

[john c]

Starting in 2014 or so, I became interested in moving away from the Glock platform because I perceived that the competition had surpassed it technically. I owned a P320, but it didn't impress me. I tried the M&P, and was at the point of making the final decision to transition when the Gen 5 came out. The Gen 5 brings Glock up to, or exceeds, the other brands. Add to that the Glock track record, aftermarket, and extreme reliability, and there's no reason to change. It's not that I dislike the P320, it's that it's not the best choice. It's an okay choice, but not the best. I actually don't understand why the P320 is as popular as it is. It doesn't offer anything over the competition, and it's a much bigger pistol.

[HopetonBrown]

You haven't told us why it's your preferred auto loading pistol.

[BobRockefeller]

There are almost as many opinions about pistols as there are people. And, for the most part, each person is "right" about his choice in a pistol.

So if the members here are distributed about like the pistol owners in the world, you probably see posts about pistol platforms at about the rate those platforms are used. Many people like Glocks. M&Ps are very popular. Walther less popular and the may be less posts here about them.

P320s are just fine, too, but perhaps fewer people buy them.

Of the striker-fired polymer-framed pistols available, I prefer the P320. But others like other pistols for as many valid reasons as I like P320s.

If you like P320s, don't worry a bit. Head over to the SIGTalk forum and immerse yourself in all things SIG!

[sharps54]

I wouldn’t carry a pistol that didn’t have a means of controlling the striker.

Does the thumb safety block the sear or only the trigger? I suppose the same question is worth asking if the M&P series.

[JAD]

Does the thumb safety block the sear or only the trigger? I suppose the same question is worth asking if the M&P series.

I don’t have a real objection to the thumb safety version of the P320.

[HCountyGuy]

In 2014 Sig Sauer released its P320. As with many new products there were some serious problems starting with the dangerous drop firing problem and the minor take down lever problems etc. There was a great deal of criticism directed at Sig Sauer and rightly so. Several individuals were injured and they will never be the same again. However, as I see it eventually Sig Sauer did remedy the problem. Many critics seem to ignore the fact that other firearm manufactures including Glock when decades ago they introduced their "plastic pistols" had recalls and modifications of their pistols. I believe the P320 is now a good firearm.
Sig won military contracts for its M17 and M18 and many law enforcement departments have supplied their officers with P320s. The fact that a firearm manufacturers obtains military contracts and police contracts in and by itself does not carry a great deal of weight with me. For agencies including the military it appears to me that quality is not the primary issue. I believe agencies primary goal is obtain a decent/okay product for the least amount of money or for the greatest savings. Quality is secondary...and to tell you the truth I am not fully convinced that Glock's 19X submission was rightfully disqualified. Perhaps, Sig Sauer was given the contract because its bid was better than the bid submitted by Glock. I would not be surprise if Glock's 19X will be very popular with the public.
Nevertheless, I do believe the P320 is now a really good semi-autoloading pistol. In fact I use the P320 90% of the time as my everyday carry. Now the reason why I wrote this post on the Sig Sauer P320 is because I fail to understand why the P320 is not viewed more favorable by my fellow Pistol-Forum members. Considering all the auto-loading pistol posts there are just not that many postings about the P320. Although I have the P320 and it is my preferred autoloading pistol, I am in no way saying that the P320 is better than a Glock 17/19, however believe it or not the P320 is a good pistol. Would anyone like to share their comments and views on the P320?

Oh look, a dead horse! Where’s my sledgehammer?

It’s not so much a dislike of the P320 as it is Sig’s questionable QC across their entire line-up these days. The Dropgate issue chapped the assets of many because Sig’s response was basically dismissive of the safety issue in the P320 not being completely drop-safe. That, and they apparently had some inkling of the issue before the public blew-up about the problem.

Nobody is denying other manufacturers have goofed up at some point. Gen 4 Glocks had brass-to-face issues, the 17M started self-disassembling in holsters, the M&P in 9mm suffered some accuracy issues, the list goes on. They’re building a device that helps contain a small explosion that launches a projectile, shit happens. The issue was Sig’s lack-luster response, coupled with their QC having been on the decline for some time.

Personally I like the P320 from a design stand point. The modularity aspect is cool plus the gun is aesthetically appealing. I bought one of the first P320 Compacts to come out, back when it was still considered the Carry size. I liked it well enough, minus my take-down lever getting insanely hot after 15 rounds but a trip back to the factory fixed that. I just like hammer-fired guns more.

If I had a reasonable amount of assurance I could pick up any P320 out of my LGS and it work as great as the current offerings from the competition I’d be all over it. I like Sig, my first pistol was a Sig so I tend to gravitate to their stuff. But recent postings by members in any of the P320 threads shows some significant variety in QC from pistol to pistol even in recently produced models.

I can’t find the posts right now, but I recall an LE member here having to send their gun back to Sig recently.

[gtmtnbiker98]

The popularity here or lack thereof is the direct result on how SIG handled the 'recall' (gasp! Voluntary Upgrade). Personally, I've been running the P320 for going on four years without issue. My department has also adopted the P320 last December along with the local Sheriff's Office. Not to mention, the Ohio State Patrol has also adopted the P320 so in my realm, it's all P320.

Mentioning our recent upgrade, to date, the P320 has already outperformed our previous P30 V1's in both function and officer's ability to perform well with them.

[tyrusasmith]

Does the thumb safety block the sear or only the trigger? I suppose the same question is worth asking if the M&P series.
From what I can tell, it appears the manual safety prevents the trigger bar and trigger from moving, in addition is pushes it down off the sear. If the trigger can't move, then it also can't push up on the striker safety lock. With a manual safety you'd have to defeat the spring tension in both the sear, and the striker safety lock to get the gun to fire.
The original drop safety problem with the P320 was that the trigger itself was too heavy and had enough potential energy when dropped to pull itself.

[modrecoil]

I like them. My Sig P320 X-Five, X-Carry, and Sub Compact are in the 10 best striker-fired guns in my collection.

[WobblyPossum]

Ignoring Sig’s recent history of shoddy QC and their incredibly poor response to the revelation that the guns might fire when you drop them, the P320 just doesn’t do anything better than any of the other popular striker guns. For example, I’m already set up to run Glocks with guns, backup guns, guns of different sizes, holsters, boxes of spare magazines, mag pouches, spare parts, the knowledge of how to detail strip and maintain the gun. For another generic striker fired gun to unseat Glocks for me, I would have to shoot it so much better than the Glock that it’s not even a contest. Plus, I’m just not as comfortable carrying fully cocked striker guns without manual safeties or some kind of gadget like device. It takes a lot of money and effort to get set up for another gun. I’m not going to go through that to replace Glock with a gun that doesn’t offer me anything better than what Glock does.

[Doc_Glock]

Just to pile on:

I like the Glock because with an SCD I can control the striker positively while holstering.

If someone has their heart set on a fully cocked striker design, I recommend:

HK VP9
M&P
Walther PPQ

In that order.

I shoot the VP9 marginally better than a Glock, maybe, but the lack of striker control while holstering leads to slight trepidation every time I holster. Probably a good thing, but the Glock is just less drama.

I never recommend the P320 due to all the issues in the OP, and I don’t feel it offers anything the others listed above don’t. Plus screw Sig for how they managed all of this.

[Clusterfrack]

I’ve shot around 50000 rounds through p320s and p320c’s. In my hands, they are marginally better than Glocks, and mine have been very reliable. I could be happy shooting and carrying them.

However, after my switch to CZ hammer fired pistols, I sold my carry 320s, and don’t use my competition 320s.

And, I prefer Glock to Sig for defensive use.

The VP9 is solid, and the P10 looks promising.

I do not like M&Ps, and wouldn’t choose Walther for carry.

[KP]

You haven't told us why it's your preferred auto loading pistol.


I preferred the P320 because I shot P320 and PPQ a little better than their competitors (however, this was prior to the release of Glock's generation 5 and the CZ). At the time I only had one auto loading pistol (S&W Shield which for my money is not a beginner pistol). I stuck with the Shield until I was finally able hit the target on a regular basis and that believe me that required discipline and extensive practice! My dominate hand was very uncomfortable with the finger grooves on the Glock and for that reason I eliminated the Glock 19. At any rate, I selected the P320 over the PPQ because for me I felt the PPQ out of the box trigger was too light for an EDC handgun. Additionally, I liked the ergonomics of the P320 and its modularity. Yet all the auto loading handguns that I compared were high quality and with the exception of those finger grooves on the Glock I believe I would not have been disappointed with any of the handguns. Despite becoming a Sig P320 fanboy, I still recommend renting and shooting as many of the top handguns and then to select the handgun that shoots the best and is the most comfortable. Frankly, I believe the Glock is a great auto loading handgun. It has an impeccable history for reliability - it just that those finger grooves didn't work for me (others may have felt the same way and perhaps that is the reason that the Generation 5 does not have finger grooves - quien sabes).

[LockedBreech]

I do not like M&Ps, and wouldn’t choose Walther for carry.

I was wondering if you had tried the M2.0s? I absolutely hate my first-gen M&P and never use it, but I like my 2.0s a lot. They feel and shoot like very different guns.

[Clusterfrack]

I was wondering if you had tried the M2.0s? I absolutely hate my first-gen M&P and never use it, but I like my 2.0s a lot. They feel and shoot like very different guns.

Yes, and accuracy seemed fine. Good grip texture, and the trigger was ok. But, I have a long memory when it comes to gun manufacturers, so that’s why.

[LockedBreech]

Yes, and accuracy seemed fine. Good grip texture, and the trigger was ok. But, I have a long memory when it comes to gun manufacturers, so that’s why.

Very fair


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[RJflyer]

I carried a G17.4 through the police academy and my first couple of years on patrol. My Guard unit is trading our Berettas for M18s within the next month or two. So I figured I'd give the P320 a hard look to see if I want to run the same (or similar) gun for my cop job.

I bought a couple of P320 Carry models earlier this year and decided to test them out. I put 1k rounds through each gun and had no issues. I do prefer it over my Glock, but only for a couple of relatively minor points. I prefer the enlarged trigger guard for use with gloves. I also like having the ability to experiment with different grip modules, stipple jobs, etc.

I haven't noted any quality issues so far with my P320s. I guess time and round count will ultimately tell the story there. However, I will say that my issued G17 had its own QC issue when I first got it. The mag release was out-of-spec and would drop loaded mags during recoil. It was fixed with a simple part swap, but I guess my point is that all high-volume manufacturers put out the occasional lemon.

[Tokarev]

My Guard unit is trading our Berettas for M18s within the next month or two.

Hmm that's pretty interesting. What is your unit?


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[VT1032]

We were supposed to be getting M17s in November here in VT but they nixed an upcoming deployment and with it went the M17s. Not disappointed by that at all. I like my M9 just fine.

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[RJflyer]

Hmm that's pretty interesting. What is your unit?


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Utah ANG. I'll be in Afghanistan when the switch is scheduled to happen. I suppose this will be my last deployment with an M9.

[MrInox]

I like the 320s for the fact that they dont have a trigger safety..........one of the reasons i ditched my glocks was the fact that their trigger dinguses rubbed me raw any time my round count got in the hundreds in a session.

[lwt16]

I'm a P320 armorer and one thing that I don't like is I can't get magazine followers to replace faulty ones.

If anyone knows of a source for followers only at a decent price, I'd appreciate it. As far as the pistols themselves, I have had to replace parts in factory fresh guns for some of the one's I am responsible for. QC is not where it should be for the price point.

I do like the pistol and mine has been very reliable. I'll see how it does in the future.

The detail strip procedure requires more time and often, more tools than a Glock. Nothing wrong with that from an armorer's perspective but I'd still rather tear down a Glock due to the itty, bitty springs in the P320 such as the striker return spring. During the armorer's class, the instructor, Paul Braun, told us "If you lose a spring, don't even bother looking for it. Come up front and grab another one....I got a million of them. We don't have time to hunt the carpet."

Make the magazine parts available, make the caliber x change kits affordable, tighten up QC, and get customer support where it should be (we had a bad experience in our search for followers with a Sig rep after purchasing more than 40 copies) and I'd be happy.

Not sure if it's me or the gun/ammo combos I've tried but I can't print a decent 25 yard slow fire ten shot group with mine. It shoots okay....but nowhere near as tight as my Glocks or other pistols. It's fine for combat shooting but I can't seem to crack the code for 25 yard, all blacking B8s.

Regards.

[358156hp]

As I was packing up my FNS to send back for the recall, I had the FNS, P320CC (357), and my PX4 full-size all sitting on the bed together. So I stacked them on top of each other to see how they stacked up (NPI). The PX4 was about a quarter inch or so longer at the barrel than the other two. That's it, no other discernable differences. I should have dug out my 1911 Champion, but I didn't think about it at the time.

The compact pistol field is really, really crowded right now. My M&P 9C will be here today, it is smaller than the others.

[RAM Engineer]

I'm a P320 armorer and one thing that I don't like is I can't get magazine followers to replace faulty ones.

What is the diagnostic cue leading to deciding it is a faulty follower, vs a spring or a mag tube?

[lwt16]

What is the diagnostic cue leading to deciding it is a faulty follower, vs a spring or a mag tube?

Replacing faulty followers with known, good examples from other magazines that solves the feed issues.

Regards.

[ArgentFix]

Replacing faulty followers with known, good examples from other magazines that solves the feed issues.

Have you noticed if your faulty followers tend to come from Checkmate-produced mags (stamped Made in USA) or Mec-Gar (Italy)? Both my CM/USA followers had tiny plastic "burs" I sanded off, while my four MG/Italy mags do not. This P320 has had one FTFeed in ~8k rounds, while using CM/USA mags, so no idea if it's related.

Also, both my CM/USA mags are so tight that the gun still will not reliably cycle if loaded 17+1, even after being kept full for 2 months. My MG/Italy mags never had this problem. I'd like to buy only MG P320 mags going forward, but this isn't easy to guarantee with online purchases...

[lwt16]

CM/USA magazines.

The Italian ones have been drama-free. At purchase, we got 80 plus magazines (CM) with the pistols and then 40 additional mags per unit.

Some of us ordered additional magazines (I like to have 6 per pistol in my safe) and they were the Italian models. The USA magazines, for the most part, have been fine except for a few.....so overall, a small percentage.

Our guy that set up this order (who was told by the local shop that our's would be off the LE line) had a couple of mags give him some stoppages. If I am remembering right, a last round FTF where it almost stovepipes the last round. So tinkering around, we found that replacing the follower from a good mag solved it.

Being an armorer, I get special pricing on parts.....which truthfully, isn't all that great and when I bought parts, I found a site that not only beat Sig's "armorer" pricing, they actually were pleasant to deal with. I inquired by email, with a detailed list of what I needed, and nobody ever got back with me from Sig. So I called.....and got voice mail several times......during normal business hours.

A little frustrating....but not the end of the world. When I finally got to a real, live person, the parts I desired were either not available or cheaper elsewhere.

So I bought elsewhere. Not a small order either but nothing earth shaking.

But magazine followers are seemingly unavailable. So our guy, a die hard Sig guy, called Sig and said "Hey, but ours are off the LE line."

So they referred him to the LE guy....who told him "No, your guns aren't off a LE line because I sell all the LE guns in this region. Call Checkmate and inquire about followers."

Checkmate referred him to Sig.

Our guy isn't the Sig fan he once was.

My opinion? Make followers available. We don't "catch" magazines on reloads unless it's with retention so they get banged up. Our range is paved so we are rough on magazines.

It would be nice to get base plates and followers instead of having to purchase an entire new magazine.

Again, not the end of the world. We adapt to it....and have a generous yearly budget to work with.

Regards.

[Tokarev]

Is this good or bad news?

Pro Mag is now making compact and full-size P320 mags. I haven't seen nor used them and can't comment on how well they might work. They may be a good option for shooters who use an indoor range and/or shoot while standing on concrete. Save your factory mags for carry.

https://promagindustries.com/sig-sauer-p320-compact-9mm-15-rd-blue-steel/

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[arcfide]

So, like a lot of people here, I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Sig as a company and QC is a big one. But if the pistol were good enough, I might be quite willing to overlook that. However, it's a crowded enough field that I can afford to be picky. I've tried/evaluated variations of Glocks, Rugers, M&Ps, PPQs, VP9s, 320s, Remington (*gasp*), FN, CZ, and Beretta. Each of them offers a little something extra to a customer who is willing to prioritize one thing over other things. Here's what I found I liked about the 320 when I tried it:


Easy to "dial in" without much learning curve
Comfortable grip
Doesn't jump around in your hand
Easy modularity and lots of model options


But there are a few things that aren't "ideal" that other guns do better:


The high bore axis means a jumpy (but reasonably flat) recoil impulse
The high bore axis contributes to a sight picture that isn't as nice, to me
The more vertically oriented grip angle isn't to my liking (I find that sharp grip angles help me to lock my wrists better)
The grip texturing is pretty minor, without a lot of good feedback
It's a harder pistol to trust than other designs


In short, while it's relatively easy to shoot, the ergonomics and confidence aren't there compared to other offerings. In the end, the striker-fired gun I was willing to plop down money for (over my hammer-fired guns) was the Beretta APX coupled with the recent frame safety kit (which I'm playing with right now). The bore-axis, ergonomics, and company reputation are all better, IMO. I much prefer a grip angle like a Glock or Steyr, but the overall ergonomics on guns like the VP9 and APX are better, with enough of a sharp grip angle to make it work. I also get a chassis system like the 320 and the ease of maintenance that comes with it.

Among those that I've tried, I'd put the following above the 320:

1. Beretta APX
2. H&K VP9
3. Walther PPQ
4. Glock Gen 5

And those I'd put below the 320:

1. CZ p10
2. M&P 2.0
3. FN 509
4. &c.

[KP]

Fortunately, there is a plethora of high quality handguns being produced that to select from. As I originally said: ... in no way am I saying that the Sig P320 is better than the competition. My selection, however, is severely limited because in my jurisdiction the people with concealed carry licenses are limited to only two handguns. New high quality handguns are being introduced nearly every year. Although P320s are slowly becoming favorably selected, yet this auto-loader pistol does not appear to be favorably viewed by Pistol-Forum members and it did puzzle me - I'm frequently on the outside of what. As for my handgun selection it seems I'm always on the outside of whatever side there was. At any rate, I will not be changing my everyday carry handgun selection...but that could happen if I were to relocate to a more firearm friendly jurisdiction. I highly value the comments of my fellow PF members because the folks on PF really do know what they are talking about. IMHO handguns are merely tools and it is up to each individual to develop their own competency and proficiency to shoot accurately on demand with their chosen handgun(s).

[Wendell]

Justin Schneider recently filed the negligence and wrongful death lawsuit in federal district court against the gunmaker on behalf of him and his wife's estate. Schneider is facing manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide charges in Otero County, Colorado in connection to his wife Wendy Schneider's death in December of 2018. Schneider’s lawsuit claims the shooting was an accident and occurred when he, his wife and son were at the kitchen table looking at the handguns each received as Christmas gifts. Schneider states his wife retrieved her P320 so they could compare it with the new guns. The suit states Schneider unloaded the gun by releasing the magazine and taking the bullet out of the chamber. When he later reloaded the gun and handed it to his wife, it discharged "firing one round through Wendy's finger, perforating her neck, and lodging into the wall of the master bedroom." Wendy Schneider died seven days later in the hospital after she was taken off life support.
https://www.seacoastonline.com/story/news/local/2021/01/26/sig-sauer-p-320-lawsuit-blames-nh-gun-maker-negligence/4254724001/

[roboster2013]

For me there are simply too many questions surrounding the reported unintended discharges to invest in the P320 platform. At this point, I just wouldn't feel comfortable carrying it. Hopefully, eventually, we will be able to definitively determine whether it is a QC issue, manufacturing issue, design issue, or no issue with the weapon at all. Until that time, I think I'll pass on the 320.