First range session with M&P 4" compact...

[Mystery]

I went to the range this evening and shot around 70 rounds.

It was very difficult to load the first round into the magazines.
For some reason, the feeder needs a lot of force for the first round to go in.
Even then, it was pretty stiff. My thumbs were hurting after few mags.
Thankfully, RSO loaned a Uplula and it was way better on my hands afterwards.

I used Federal champion FMJ 115 gr ammo.
There was a lot of smoke today.
Not sure if it was my ammo or others' ammo or ventilation but I felt and smelled more smoke than last time.

BTW, the Howard Leight Impact Sport is pretty useless.
It doesn't block noise to be called shooting ear protection.
With double protection, it was still pretty loud so I tested the impact sport by itself at home and I can clearly hear normal conversation.
Yes mic was off and good seal around the ear.
My stereo headphones block more noise. Maybe the one I got is fake.
Thank god that I used ear plugs under these.
Basically, it was the ear plugs that was working.
I'll get a Peltor or something better soon.

Aim was not bad but I found it was very hard to see gap between the front and rear sights.
Probably due to lighting in the range.
My shots were still little bit low and left.

Gun felt pretty good with medium large grip.
I'll try large grip next time as I still felt I needed more thickness there.

As for pistol case, don't laugh.
I used a table tennis paddle case as a gun rug and put it inside Craftsman router's hard case along with eye/ear protection and ammo.
:D worked great and Craftsman doesn't scream gun!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47595662892_280dfbbe87_c.jpg

Aim was in the area but not exactly where I pointed.
They were mostly around an inch or two low and left.
There were some noob moment where I pulled the trigger without racking the slide after inserting the mag. :D

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40681875563_e8b8e38871_c.jpg

[Kyle Reese]

I've got a brand new Midway range bag that's yours, gratis, if you want it. PM me a mailing address and I'll get it out to you this week.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[fixer]

What distance is your target from?

Also..I always have a noticeable drop in accuracy shooting indoors. for me 15 yds feels like 30...

[psalms144.1]

Mystery - good to hear your initial impressions. A couple of thoughts:

1. Mags - some are hard to load, some not as much. USUALLY folks find it harder to get the mag loaded to full capacity rather than just the first couple of rounds - did you disassemble and clean the mags before your session, to make sure there wasn't a bunch of gunk in there? In any event - https://www.amazon.com/Maglula-ltd-UpLULA-Magazine-Unloader/dp/B001HBHNHE/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3NE673V2DZARR&keywords=uplula+9mm+to+45acp&qid=1555774004&s=gateway&sprefix=uplula%2Caps%2C133&sr=8-1 is your friend, and an inexpensive accessory to start off with!

2. Hearing protection. Shooting indoors is loud, and, depending on the number of other shooters on the range, and what they're shooting, can be REALLY loud. I've never used the ears you mentioned, but I'm not sure that anything would be significantly better given the volume in typical indoor ranges.

3. Ammo - cheap ammo is usually smoky, and accuracy is generally not so great. If you want "better" cheap ammo, look around for Seiler & Bellot stuff - it's what I'd run if I had to buy my own range fodder

4. Shooting - hard to give advice or diagnose based on a single target with A LOT of holes in it, and no given range. My best advice would be to first focus on DRY FIRE, and not proceed to the range until you can consistently break a dry shot with no movement in the sights. After that, move to short strings of fire - 5-10 rounds at most, on individual targets. Print targets off the internet - they're easy to use, and you'll be able to get a better picture of what's going on instead of shooting 50+ rounds into a single target.

5. Sights - not sure what you're running on your M&P - if standard factory, look at these: https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/sights/sight-sets/s-w-m-p-cap-sight-set-prod58268.aspx?avs%7cMake_3=Smith%2520%2526%2520We sson

[LorenzoS]

...BTW, the Howard Leight Impact Sport is pretty useless....

Lots of people have good results with the Howard Leights but I found they do not fit my head properly to get a good seal over my ears which prevents effective sound blocking. I switched to MSA Sordins with the optional gel cups and completely solved the problem. Expensive but worth it.

Another factor to consider is the eye protection you are wearing, and whether the temple arms are preventing a good seal for your ear muffs. I use ESS Ice glasses which have thin temple arms, and the Sordin gels also are more compliant over the eye pro than the Howard Leights.

I still double up with ear plugs indoors due to the increased noise. Hearing loss is permanent and by the time you notice it, it's already too late.

[scw2]

sounds like a good first session! Shooting indoors is always loud if there are other shooters, especially if they got higher pressure stuff like rifles. You’ll acclimate eventually.

In addition to the thinner eye pro recommended people have also been upgrading with aftermarket gel earcups which may be an option. I’ll try to dig up the thread here. If you’re using foam plugs also make sure you’re putting them in correctly, look on YouTube for some videos.

Finally if it’s smokey indoors try to be safe with lead exposure and wash hands/face with cold water, blow your nose, change clothes when it get home, etc.

Anyways keep on working on your skills, tons of good shooters here to help you on your journey.

[Mystery]

Thanks for replies.

I tested Howard Leight at home without glasses and conversation with and without these were at same volume.
Not even muffled.
My sennheiser over the ear headphones feel like I'm under water but these so called shooting ear muffs feel like a paper plate over the ears, absolutely no difference. :eek:
Only good for speakers to hear over ear plugs.


What distance is your target from?

Also..I always have a noticeable drop in accuracy shooting indoors. for me 15 yds feels like 30...

The target was at 7 yards.

[HCM]

Lots of people have good results with the Howard Leights but I found they do not fit my head properly to get a good seal over my ears which prevents effective sound blocking. I switched to MSA Sordins with the optional gel cups and completely solved the problem. Expensive but worth it.

Another factor to consider is the eye protection you are wearing, and whether the temple arms are preventing a good seal for your ear muffs. I use ESS Ice glasses which have thin temple arms, and the Sordin gels also are more compliant over the eye pro than the Howard Leights.

I still double up with ear plugs indoors due to the increased noise. Hearing loss is permanent and by the time you notice it, it's already too late.

Along those lines, swapping out the HL ear pads for aftermarket gel pads is a considerable improvement in both comfort and seal.

[Alpha Sierra]

Cheap-ass foam ear plugs have a 30+ dB NRR, well over that of any pair of headsets regardless of their price. But they do have to be inserted correctly to deliver, something most people either don't know or can't understand.

[RJ]

Mystery glad to see you out shooting!

I think a Maglula was already mentioned. Highly recommended.

Your experience with the HL Impact Sports mirrors mine. My glasses prevent a full seal. Like others, I purchased a pair of MSA Sordins from www.srstactical.com, and find the gel cups fit well.

I still double up with foam plugs. I think member peterb has a great post on how to properly insert them. I’ll try and find it.

Edit: Here it is:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1190-Foam-earplugs&highlight=Foam+plug

Two suggestions on good Dry Practice. If you have a small AAA LED headlight, you can wear it to illuminate the front sight. This helps to see if it moves as you press the trigger.

For example:

PETZL - TIKKINA Headlamp, 150 Lumens, Standard Lighting, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KYTR76Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0N4UCbQG2G8A7

The second is to order a pair of full lens +2.0 safety glasses. Same thing here, the slight magnification will help you see, really see, what the front sight is doing as you press the trigger.

Again, for example:

Pyramex Safety Emerge Plus Readers Safety Glasses, 2.0 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075362G59/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_wM4UCbYA3MQ1A

Much, much smarter people than me have commented accurate shooting, early on, is to a large degree about trigger control. Some have half joked, you almost don’t need to aim, until you can press the trigger straight back without disturbing the front sights.

Good luck!


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[Mystery]

Thanks for comments.

I'm liking this gun so far except the manual safety paddle comes too far out.
It is right where thumb rests on the frame. I have to think not to push it up. Probably training issue.
Not that big deal for range but I can imagine it engaging/disengaging when walking/bending etc... if holster does't have guard for the safety for carrying.

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/styles/product_main/public/firearms/images/11646_03_lg.jpg

Size is fine but shorter or flush safety like they have in the Shield is better for carrying.

[TGS]

Thanks for comments.

I'm liking this gun so far except the manual safety paddle comes too far out.
It is right where thumb rests on the frame. I have to think not to push it up. Probably training issue.

You're on point man, 100% a training issue!

Universal practice for shooting a defensive handgun with a safety is to have your thumb on top of it, not just resting but tensioned to some degree. Doing such prevents the safety from inadvertently engaging. This is why the safety on a "fighting gun" is built purposely wide.

Ignore Rob Pincus' shilling, but here's a video demonstrating proper use. I'm sure there's a better video but this is what I found off the bat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DckzHSCi9rM

[Dave J]

Concur with the recommendations to try gel earcups. Non-gels (regardless of brand) just don't seal on my noggin, even without eye pro.

For the M&P thumb safety, it's possible to get a kydex holster molded so that the safety is fixed "on safe" and prevented from disengaging while in the holster. As TGS mentioned, try leaving your strong hand thumb on top of the safety while shooting.

Looking at your target photo, I'd suggest that next trip you bring something (i.e. big paper or cardboard) large enough to cover the backer, and then put your targets on top of that, so you have shot accountability. If you'd yanked a round off the target, and onto that swiss cheese backer the range provided, would you know for sure where it went? Many of us will often use something like an IDPA or USPSA cardboard silhouette with something smaller (like a B-8C) pasted in the center, so any misses are painfully obvious. The repair center can be changed often at minimal expense. IMHO, a common mistake is to not paste/tape or change targets frequently enough to tell exactly where every round hit.

[Mystery]

I went back to the range today and shot for around half an hour taking my time.
I finished the leftover Federal champion ammo and switched to Remington UMC 115gr.
The Remington felt better. There's not much price difference so I'll go with the Remington.

I tried to focus on the front sight as much as I can.
I think the front sight needs to be slightly over the rear to hit where I aim.
It could be just me compensating for other things like squeezing the trigger.

I also tried the front sight completely over the rear and that hit higher so I think the gun/sight is okay.
I need more practice.

Anyways, I had 5 or 6 out of 45 rounds close to the red dot, in the middle square at 7 yards.
Better than first session I think.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46767929105_2088827481_c.jpg

Btw, today I was on the rifle bay and there was one guy two lanes over and he was shooting some type of AR rifle, I think it was AR 10 or 15.
It was first time I ever heard rifle that close and even with double protection (I used range's earmuffs this time with earplugs underneath), the compression hit me every time he shot.
He had the hostage target in 90 degree rotate mode and he would shoot two rounds at the bad guy every time it faced him.
Nice little practice mode but I'd go to pistol bay next time. Rifles are too loud, even though he was two lanes over. :eek:

[Duelist]

I went back to the range today and shot for around half an hour taking my time.
I finished the leftover Federal champion ammo and switched to Remington UMC 115gr.
The Remington felt better. There's not much price difference so I'll go with the Remington.

I tried to focus on the front sight as much as I can.
I think the front sight needs to be slightly over the rear to hit where I aim.
It could be just me compensating for other things like squeezing the trigger.

I also tried the front sight completely over the rear and that hit higher so I think the gun/sight is okay.
I need more practice.

Anyways, I had 5 or 6 out of 45 rounds close to the red dot, in the middle square at 7 yards.
Better than first session I think.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46767929105_2088827481_c.jpg

Btw, today I was on the rifle bay and there was one guy two lanes over and he was shooting some type of AR rifle, I think it was AR 10 or 15.
It was first time I ever heard rifle that close and even with double protection (I used range's earmuffs this time with earplugs underneath), the compression hit me every time he shot.
He had the hostage target in 90 degree rotate mode and he would shoot two rounds at the bad guy every time it faced him.
Nice little practice mode but I'd go to pistol bay next time. Rifles are too loud, even though he was two lanes over. :eek:

I hate shooting near people shooting short barreled ARs, even though I like shooting them. Especially indoors, I wouldn’t be that close to one.

How far away is your target when you are shooting? ETA: oh, 7 yards. I like to start people out at what they think initially is a ridiculously close distance: 3 yards or less. And I like a less “busy” target: a simple circle or square, maybe a B8 center or some other 8” shape. After you can keep all shots in an 8” circle (paper plates are good targets), then and only then do I like to have the target start moving further out, or shoot at smaller shapes like 2” circles, and then 1” squares.