Seriously considering going back to the 1911 for carry. Anyone else?

[Hunter Rose]

I finally got back to the range today after months of shooting inactivity. I hurt my knee late last year and between physical therapy, getting my house fixed up in order to sell, and buying a lot to build the retirement home I have been tapped out. Life has finally settled enough to start getting back into shooting.

My background is I started shooting on 1911s and Hi-Powers, then moved into HKs 7 years ago when I started taking classes and trying to improve my shooting skills. Have been shooting/carrying HKs exclusively (HK P30LS 9mm and HK45). I went away from 1911s for all the rational reasons: reliability, ease of maintenance, capacity, cost, etc.

Back to the present. Since I've been raising money to fund the retirement home, I was considering selling my two custom 1911s, since they have been nothing but safe queens. I felt I couldn't let them go in good conscious without shooting them at least once, so decided I'd make my first trip back to the range a 1911 day. I didn't bring a timer or even a holster, since this was just supposed to be a fun trip to get back into the flow.

To my surprise, the first mag at 10 yards was one ragged hole. Second mag was the same. On the third mag I went to 25 yards and everything was in center mass. 2 x rounds in the 10-ring, 2 x rounds in the 9-ring, 3 x rounds in the 8-ring, and 1 x round in the 7 ring. I was astounded. Since I hadn't shot in six months, I was just hoping they would all be on paper. My first range trips with the P30 following a 4-month and 6-month deployment were nowhere near as good. Not even close.

The rest of it went well, groups started opening up and trigger control degraded a little as the session wore on, but shooting the 1911 felt like coming home to an old friend. Press trigger, sights lifted and returned to target, press trigger again. Hands never separated on my grip. All in all I had a blast, and it reminded me why I loved the 1911 to begin with.

So, now I'm thinking to myself: Why not just dedicate myself to the 1911 and make it my primary carry gun?

While it may sound like a whim, it's something I've thought about numerous times before. My thinking is as follows:

- I shoot the 1911 better and with way less effort than other pistols. It's the pistol I'm probably most confident in being able to make hits with when firing cold or after a long interval without shooting

- it conceals better (especially the magazines) than what I normally carry; and I feel extremely safe with re-holstering a 1911 for appendix carry due to the multiple safety redundancies of the manual safety, hammer, grip safety, and half-cock notch.

- Cost is not an issue. I can afford multiple high-end guns set up the same, so rotating them out when one needs to go back to the smith for a tune-up is not a big deal. The primary 1911 I have now has extra fitted parts so a broken slide stop, firing pin stop, etc. would not take the gun out of commission.

- Ammo cost is not an issue. I can afford the higher cost of .45 ACP. Finding time to get to the range is a larger issue than affording ammo for those range trips.

- I'm familiar with the system, maintenance and detail stripping is simple and the additional maintenance burden is fine with me

- weight is not really an issue; I'm 6'5" and 230 so have never really thought the 1911 was excessively heavy when carrying

- capacity is low (9 rds of 45 Auto in the 1911 vs 16 rds of 9mm in the P30LS); but I've carried a J-frame before and never really felt under gunned. I live in a decent suburb where crime is low, but it does occur. Still, the chances of me ever needing the gun are statistically extremely low, and I'd still have 9 rds of 45 ACP on tap with 16 rds in reloads. But honestly, capacity is my main concern and primary negative for the 1911.

- I have a passion for the 1911. It keeps me interested in the pistol and makes me want to shoot it more often, so training reps would likely be more than what I am doing currently, because I enjoy the shooting sessions more.

That's about it. Figured I would see what the Pistol Forum hive-mind had to say. Anyone else considering going back to the 1911 or already made the move?




p.s. It's a thread about 1911s, so I figure I have to post the obligatory gun porn...


https://oi1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah298/semcmenamin/IMG_8500_zps4btkw0jg.jpg

https://oi1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah298/semcmenamin/IMG_8499_zps92mdaaua.jpg

[Doc_Glock]

I would not do it, but your reasons are sound and that is a beautiful gun. Go for it.

[Duelist]

I’ve never had a 1911, but I’ve enjoyed every one I’ve ever fired. Your familiarity and reasoning seem solid. In your shoes, I wouldn’t even hesitate: do it! It sounds perfect.

[sharps54]

I’ve considered it but currently I’m without a 1911 and am Combat Tupperware heavy. Financially I am not in your position so I can’t justify the $3,000 plus to fully outfit myself with 1911s at then moment. In your shoes I don’t see any reason not to although there is the argument for you to at least try one in 9mm which will help with the capacity issue. The cheaper ammo won’t hurt and you may find even better performance on the timer with a 9mm 1911, just a thought.

[okie john]

The 1911 is a good choice for people who understand and are willing to accept the pistol's limitations, and who can afford to keep them running.

Someone like you, in other words.


Okie John

[Joe in PNG]

Planning on buying and carrying a DW Guardian 9mm next month (following the recommended break-in, of course).

[Ed L]

If it works better for you, if your guns run reliably and are you shoot better with them, it would seem to be an okay decision. It is a very individual decision with lots of individual factors that come into play that don't effect everyone equally.

At one point I shot significantly better with a 1911 than a Glock. I want to say that this was in 2006 or so. A huge difference. With a 1911 I could mow down 6 steel plates with six shots with no problem and shoot tighter groups.

Then over the next few years I took a bunch of courses from instructors like Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Wayne Dobbs & Darryl Bolke, and Todd Louis Green.

Suddenly I discovered that I shot a Glock 17 or Glock 19 (Gen 2s) almost as well as I shot a 1911.I shoot an HK VP9 & VP9 Subcompact better than the Glocks. Maybe I started to suck more with a 1911 and less with the other guns. Maybe this was just me. I had reliability problems with 1911s including 2 Springfield Professionals, a Springfield 10-8 Operator, and even a Wilson. They were usable, but not as problem free out of the box as the Glocks and VP-9s. I decided to part with some of the 1911s and still have a Springfield Professional and 10-8 Operator in my safe. Also I find the Glocks and VP-9s much quicker and easier to field strip and clean. Also, I have developed tendonitis in my right hand so a wider, lesser recoiling gun like a VP-9 or a Glock 17/19 is more comfortable to hold and shoot.

I am not going to go into all of the this vs. that, because it is an individual thing where certain factors weigh more--like being able to shoot the gun better right here and now, or in my case, being less painful to shoot.

I remember the thrill of being able to shoot the 1911 much better than other guns and at the time having it feel better in my hand than other guns. I don't discount that at all. As you wrote, you shoot better with the 1911, are comfortable maintaining it and have a passion for it. If it works for you and runs reliably and is durable I say go with it.

[Shorikid]

You understand the firearm and what I can and can't do. You have a couple of good guns (with what you have I wouldn't sweat parts breakage) and a budget for ammo. With dry practice to supplement the range, you should be good to go. Thumb over hammer when you reholster AIWB on top of the safeties is what I do. I have a CCO build at Nighthawk for finish work right now.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Cory]

I think it sounds like a great option for you.

I think StraitR carries a 1911 most of the time and has for sometime. He may be able to recommend holsters, parts, routines, or other helpful stuff.

If you can afford multiple pistols, the support gear, and you love the guns then do it. Strikers dominate the market, DA/SA have their followers, but 1911s are still very capable. I love my Dan Wesson.

-Cory

[shane45]

Im in pretty much the same boat as you. My two pauses are, capacity, and handing over one of my 1911's in the event it had to be used. On the first issue I believe that an armed encounter is already a highly unlikely outlier. But since its an outlier it would be better to cover as many outlier scenarios as possible. (2 bad guy gun). On the second issue Im sort of mixed emotions. Yes turning over a high end 1911 to an evidence locker would suck, but what if (and I do understand this is unlikely but...) the little performance edge I believe the 1911 gives me affected the outcome. Then it was money well spent. This could be totally just my own musings, but I cant help but feel that the first shot may be the most important shot and nothing does that as well for me than a 1911.

[Hunter Rose]

I'll be honest, I didn't think I was going to get responses reinforcing what I've been thinking. I figured (and maybe was secretly hoping for) the standard replies about how modern 9mm polymer just makes more sense.

Maybe I'm not thinking crazy then. My reasoning makes sense in my head why I think the 1911 will work for me, but I wanted to get other opinions as a sounding board for different perspectives in case I was missing something.

[Duelist]

Oh, you wanted us to talk you out of it? We’re all enablers here. You’re not talking about running a Hi Point, you’re talking about running high-end 1911s you know, trust, and can use very effectively.

“What if I told you that it really doesn’t matter which gun you use?” I don’t remember who said that first, but it’s something I believe: as long as the gun runs reasonably well, and you can use it effectively, follow your head or follow your heart, whatever you decide is more important to you. Commit to the thing, and run it and shoot as much as you have time and money to do so.

[Hunter Rose]

At one point I shot significantly better with a 1911 than a Glock. I want to say that this was in 2006 or so. A huge difference. With a 1911 I could mow down 6 steel plates with six shots with no problem and shoot tighter groups.

Then over the next few years I took a bunch of courses from instructors like Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Wayne Dobbs & Darryl Bolke, and Todd Louis Green.

Suddenly I discovered that I shot a Glock 17 or Glock 19 (Gen 2s) almost as well as I shot a 1911.I shoot an HK VP9 & VP9 Subcompact better than the Glocks. Maybe I started to suck more with a 1911 and less with the other guns. Maybe this was just me. I had reliability problems with 1911s including 2 Springfield Professionals, a Springfield 10-8 Operator, and even a Wilson. They were usable, but not as problem free out of the box as the Glocks and VP-9s. .


Ed,

My initial move away from the 1911 was essentially the same as yours. I wanted to get more serious on shooting about 7 years or so ago. I took a couple fun HK classes from HKPro, did EAG Tactical Pistol/Carbine, took a couple classes from Jason Falla. The shooting skill improvement definitely made me comfortable with polymer, and I shoot them fine.

However, I think I actually DO shoot the 1911 better. I shoot the P30LS and HK45 well, but it feels like it takes much more effort. I've had multiple breaks in shooting due to my job, and I've never shot the P30LS or HK45 as well after a long break. They both took a couple range trips to get the comfort level and accuracy confidence back. It's not that I can't shoot the HKs as well as the 1911, it's just that it takes more effort and consistency.

Also, since I got formal instruction and my skills improved, I've only shot the polymer HKs. I've never seriously dedicated training/class time to the 1911.

I'll admit I'm intrigued on this thought: If I can do as good/better than my HKs with a 1911 after not shooting one in a couple years and not shooting any pistol in six months, then how good could I do if I actually dedicated some training time to it?

[ChaseN]

I hear the "two perp gun" argument re: 1911 vs tupperware a lot. Personally the way I shoot my 10+1 9mm STI duty one, I wouldnt worry too much about doing the job with 5-6 rounds per bad guy and my running shoes (I'm not a cop any more and don't have to stick around to see it through).

That said I retired my STI to showing off to buddies and carry either a P2000 or G43x with gadget nowadays because I'm an unlucky klutz and won't carry anything without a firing pin block (especially AIWB). Any halfway decent series 80 1911 is a custom proposition I don't care to pursue at this point IMO.

[breakingtime91]

Ed,

My initial move away from the 1911 was essentially the same as yours. I wanted to get more serious on shooting about 7 years or so ago. I took a couple fun HK classes from HKPro, did EAG Tactical Pistol/Carbine, took a couple classes from Jason Falla. The shooting skill improvement definitely made me comfortable with polymer, and I shoot them fine.

However, I think I actually DO shoot the 1911 better. I shoot the P30LS and HK45 well, but it feels like it takes much more effort. I've had multiple breaks in shooting due to my job, and I've never shot the P30LS or HK45 as well after a long break. They both took a couple range trips to get the comfort level and accuracy confidence back. It's not that I can't shoot the HKs as well as the 1911, it's just that it takes more effort and consistency.

Also, since I got formal instruction and my skills improved, I've only shot the polymer HKs. I've never seriously dedicated training/class time to the 1911.

I'll admit I'm intrigued on this thought: If I can do as good/better than my HKs with a 1911 after not shooting one in a couple years and not shooting any pistol in six months, then how good could I do if I actually dedicated some training time to it?


Screw it, life short. Give it a try and dedicate a year to it. I have a 9mm Wilson that I love, only reason I’m not currently carrying it isn’t it doesn’t have a red dot on it.

[Hunter Rose]

Oh, you wanted us to talk you out of it? We’re all enablers here. You’re not talking about running a Hi Point, you’re talking about running high-end 1911s you know, trust, and can use very effectively.

“What if I told you that it really doesn’t matter which gun you use?” I don’t remember who said that first, but it’s something I believe: as long as the gun runs reasonably well, and you can use it effectively, follow your head or follow your heart, whatever you decide is more important to you. Commit to the thing, and run it and shoot as much as you have time and money to do so.


Yeah, I think I was kind of hoping there was some flaw in my logic and when someone pointed it out I'd have a "Duh, of course the 1911 makes no sense and hi-cap polymer is clearly the better answer" moment.

[David S.]

I'll be honest, I didn't think I was going to get responses reinforcing what I've been thinking. I figured (and maybe was secretly hoping for) the standard replies about how modern 9mm polymer just makes more sense.

If you would have posed this same question, say, 6 or 7 years ago, I think you might have got an answer more in line with your expectations.

I say rock on with that 1911.

[Hunter Rose]

I hear the "two perp gun" argument re: 1911 vs tupperware a lot. Personally the way I shoot my 10+1 9mm STI duty one, I wouldnt worry too much about doing the job with 5-6 rounds per bad guy and my running shoes (I'm not a cop any more and don't have to stick around to see it through).



I first read the "3 bad guy gun" concept from Todd on here years ago. It does resonate with me. Capacity is honestly the main reason I have not made the switch already.

But as I hit 40, I'm also realistic about my threat assessment. I'm not law enforcement. I'm not actively going into areas I expect trouble. Crime/active shooters can happen anywhere, but the probability is extremely low. If I'm in that situation, my obligation is not to confront the threat for the greater good, it's to keep my wife safe and get out of the location. I feel a 9 rd pistol (with 16 rds in reloads) that I am accurate and confident with is likely enough for that job.

[Hunter Rose]

If you would have posed this same question, say, 6 or 7 years ago, I think you might have got an answer more in line with your expectations.

I say rock on with that 1911.

LOL. Funny, because about 6-7 years ago was when I decided to concentrate on polymer because the 1911 had no more use in this modern world! ;)

[ChaseN]

I first read the "3 bad guy gun" concept from Todd on here years ago. It does resonate with me. Capacity is honestly the main reason I have not made the switch already.

But as I hit 40, I'm also realistic about my threat assessment. I'm not law enforcement. I'm not actively going into areas I expect trouble. Crime/active shooters can happen anywhere, but the probability is extremely low. If I'm in that situation, my obligation is not to confront the threat for the greater good, it's to keep my wife safe and get out of the location. I feel a 9 rd pistol (with 16 rds in reloads) that I am accurate and confident with is likely enough for that job.

The three perp argument doesn't resonate with me as much. Obviously I can't predict everything but as a regular guy now I'm striving to shoot to break contact whether I'm 50 feet away or physically wrapped up with an attacker. Multiple attackers only increases my desire to GTFO. Standing and having it out with three predators without armor or a radio or a rifle on hand sounds like a bad way to die.

Basically OP I'm saying go 1911 if you're comfortable with it because no doubt it can put rounds where you need them like nothing else.

[FrankB]

I carry 1911’s in full size steel, and lightweight commanders. A DeSantis Mad Max IWB leather holster makes carrying concealed very comfortable. In cooler weather, I’ll use an OWB leather holster. I use .45 acp, and carry a spare mag, giving me 17 rounds.

[JohnK]

I've been practicing, training, competing, and carrying a full size 1911 for the better part of the last 20 months with the occasionally switch off to a p30 LEM. I feel confident in the 1911 with accuracy and reliability and I feel like it gives me an edge in performance-whether it is actual or just my perception. My last competition was a hose fest and let me tell ya, 25 rounds goes FAST. And those mag changes come up FAST. That's my only gripe. No red dot on mine... when the time comes, a Glock will get that treatment.

In other news, since running the 1911 for that long, my beard has never looked better.

[TC215]

Do it.

http://i.imgur.com/uLmdIhy.jpg

[willie]

This makes sense. You have two vetted pistols that you shoot well and trust. Capacity in my opinion is not an issue. An extra mag compensates for single stack capacity.

[Totem Polar]

Hunter Rose,

If you’re looking for permission to commit to, train with, and carry tasty 1911s, I’ve got your back.

You have my permission. You’re welcome. ;)

Seriously, your reasoning is sound, and you have the background, resources, and interest to make it work. Follow your heart and don’t look back.

(I went through the same thing with wheelies last year, for a variety of specialized reasons. I’m never going to be one arguing that revolvers are the functional equal of poly service autos (they’re not) but for me, at this point, they make a ton of sense, and I like them, so screw it and drive on. JMO.)

[Robinson]

I've been shooting and carrying 1911s for years now and probably always will. At this point my carry gun is a 9mm Lightweight Commander. It conceals well and is more pleasant to carry that an all steel Government model. I still shoot my 45s to stay in practice, but most of my shooting now is with 9mm.

If you have or plan to acquire a 1911 that is proven reliable and you have sufficient familiarity with the gun, then there is no big reason not to carry one if that's what you want to do. I will admit it's a more expensive route to take than with Glocks and most other types, especially when multiple guns are involved.

[JRB]

Not too long ago I told an old friend, who carries a 1911 religiously, something to effect of 'There's no good reason to carry a 1911 anymore'.
His reply was 'There's no bad reason to carry a 1911'.

I'm pretty sure we left it at that, and moved the discussion on to something more worthwhile like pretty girls or something. Obviously I'd been spoiling for a discussion of Beretta 92's or Glocks or HK's or something, but that retort did all the talking needed.

So if the 1911 is what you like, and you practice with it, and you trust it - I say rock on.

[farscott]

More than once I have also seriously considered going back to the 1911-pattern gun for carry. I have more than a few customs, including a Harrison-upgraded SA Professional, a gun John built me from scratch with a Caspian frame and slide, and two full-house Harrison customs built on Colt frames and slides. Two of the four guns were carried, and two were training/backup guns. I carried 1911-pattern guns until I transitioned to polymer guns, with the last seven years or so mostly P30. I know how to maintain the 1911-pattern guns and can detail strip them as easily as I can a Glock. I shoot them pretty well and pretty fast. A few decades of Bullseye has allowed me to make hits at distance under time pressure.

But I have not made the switch back to the 1911. Instead I have moved a bit away from the HK P30 to the Glock and to a lesser extent the Beretta 92-series. And my reasons are not entirely rational nor are they irrational. To me, the biggest advantage of the Glock over any other platform is the ease of maintenance. I need four tools: the punch, a pair of fine pliers to deal with the magazine spring, a sight pusher for the rear sight, and a driver for the front sight. Break an extractor hook on a 1911-pattern gun, and there is some fitting time as well as finish work with a custom. Days of downtime and I need to outsource some of it, especially on a gun with a serrated extractor. With a Glock, it is matter of popping the slide cover plate, removing the internals, and dropping a new extractor into the gun. No fitting, no finishing. I can do it in less than thirty minutes. The parts are inexpensive. 1911-pattern parts are not expensive, but they are not as inexpensive as the Glock. And all require fitting. Sight swaps on the 1911 almost always require filing the dovetail base of both the front and rear sights. Glock sight swaps require more range time than shop time. I have swapped Glock sights on the range.

Another part of my decision to not switch is the magazine, specifically the single-stack design. Reloads are easier and faster with double-stack magazines. I can also carry thirty-five rounds in the gun and a single spare magazine opposed to twenty-one at most for a 9x19 1911-pattern with the same single spare magazine. I likely will never need fifteen rounds let alone thirty-five rounds but I lack the fact that if I do need them I have them. The Glock magazines are less expensive and take less effort to source. Just buy factory Glock magazines other than restricted ten-round ones and all is well. HK and Beretta magazines are similarly purchased. Beretta magazines are common in shops; HK magazines less so and are purchased online. Glock magazines are in just about any gun shop. 1911-pattern magazines are a bit more of an issue, especially in 9x19. For the most part, .45 ACP magazines are good-to-go although I still put Tripp Super 7 follower kits in Colt Metalform bodies.

Another part is the timer says I am actually getting faster with the 92-series as I continue to learn to shoot systems other than the 1911-pattern. The other guns provide more of a safety margin in the sense that I can actually stop myself from taking a shot once I start the trigger squeeze. That sweet 1911 trigger offers much less margin. It does make rapid fifty-yard shots easier, but I am surprised at how easy the Glock and 92-series are easy to shoot at distance with good sights and practice.

But all of that is me. And it applies only to me. And I recognize at the end of the day, it is not so much about which pistol I carry as it is about the fact that I am carrying a pistol in whose use I am proficient. If the custom 1911 works for you, I say use it.

[JAH 3rd]

There are so many reasons for not carrying a 1911 when compared to polymer hi-cap pistols. But the 1911 always pulls me back in.....I am debating about purchasing a DW 1911 A2 parkerized. Its been on my mind for the last couple of weeks. So far I have resisted....but to quote the Borg (Star Trek Next Gen)...."resistance is futile".

[Rex G]

Multi-perp pistols? The best way to deal with multiple perps is to line them up, and shoot two or more of them with each bullet. ;)

Actually, that is not just kidding. One way I let bad guys know I was serious, if none of us had any cover, was to move so that they were lined-up, downrange. Know how to “dance.” ;)

While policing a big city, on night shift, and still driving a Tahoe as a patrol vehicle, my duty pistol was a full-sized, single-column mag, all-steel 1911. Les Baer TRS. Lots of perps in Houston.

I did down-size to a G19, in the duty rig, in those final few months, before retirement, when I had to start patrolling in a smaller Ford “Police Interceptor” MBUV. (Make-Believe Utility Vehicle.) A full-sized duty pistol’s longer grip frame tended to foul a smooth, fast exit, from the passenger side. I was the police, who was being intercepted, as I tried to bail out. (I hated those compact Ford SUV patrol vehicles; I might have worked another year, or so, if I could have kept using a Tahoe.)

I can relate to being able to shoot a 1911 well, after a long period of shooting other pistols. I went to “modern” pistols in 2002, due to my then-mandated duty holster interfering with my ability to attain a proper firing grip at the beginning of the draw. By late 2011, however, when I was age fifty, the combination of the SIG high bore axis, and a the snappy recoil of .40 S&W, was making training painful. By 2012, I decided to pull the TRS from the safe, and found its muzzle flip to be nicely tame, and, amazingly, no loss of accuracy, after a decade of using other trigger systems. Soon, I was again carrying a 1911, during personal time. By 2016, due to a change in duty pistol rules, and being able to use a Safariland 6360 duty holster, which allowed a proper grip at the outset of the draw, I was again carrying a 1911 as a primary duty pistol, and had resumed carrying the same pistol on and off the clock.

Having said that, I do not always tote a 1911, now, in retirement, due to shoulder mobility issues, a short waist, and long arms, combining to make it difficult to draw a long-barreled weapon from an inside-the-trousers holster, or any high-ride rig. It takes a quite long cover garment to hide a full-length 1911 that is carried in a lower rig, outside the trousers, so my 1911 carry has become seasonal.

My accuracy potential is highest with a 1911, or a well-set-up revolver. The only auto pistol I could shoot as well as a 1911 was a SIG P229, and I got away from them due to the painful muzzle flip.

So, today, my serious fighting pistols are 5” 1911, Glocks 17 and 19x, and several revolvers. None are perfect for every scenario.

[JSGlock34]

A 1911 is a fine choice; I carry one of my Wilson Combat pistols frequently.

There is the EDC X9 to consider if capacity is a concern.

[JHC]

I'll be honest, I didn't think I was going to get responses reinforcing what I've been thinking. I figured (and maybe was secretly hoping for) the standard replies about how modern 9mm polymer just makes more sense.

Maybe I'm not thinking crazy then. My reasoning makes sense in my head why I think the 1911 will work for me, but I wanted to get other opinions as a sounding board for different perspectives in case I was missing something.

Sounds good to me. I gave it serious consideration a couple years ago and then started to.

The obstacle I hit was the size and weight of my 2 full-size .45s for true EDC as in every dang day in close proximity with folks. More work than I remembered from back when that's all I carried but I only carried off post, mostly on weekends.

Go for it.

[SecondsCount]

With your strong familiarity with the 1911, I don't see any issues with you going back, especially since the one you will carry seems like an excellent pistol.

[M2CattleCo]

I went back to a 1911 for all the same reasons.

Reliability and maintenance is a non-issue in a properly built example. I have a pistol range at work and a ridiculous ammo budget so the rounds get put down range. I'm at a much higher round count with a Wilson than I was with a Gen5 Glock. Since transitioning I've been hit with no brass, my accuracy is consistently better, and I haven't worn out any trashy stamped sheet metal trigger components and wasted the time and hassle of trying to fix it. I have a much more comfortable and concealable carry pistol and when I post in the picture threads, the content is much cooler. :cool:

If you're not mandated by your employer to carry a (whatever you don't really like), why bother with it??

[Shorikid]

There are so many reasons for not carrying a 1911 when compared to polymer hi-cap pistols. But the 1911 always pulls me back in.....I am debating about purchasing a DW 1911 A2 parkerized. Its been on my mind for the last couple of weeks. So far I have resisted....but to quote the Borg (Star Trek Next Gen)...."resistance is futile".JAH 3rd,

Is it a bad thing if I point you to a 1911 forum with several DW pistols in their classified forum for about the list price of that A2?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Galbraith]

Nothing wrong with going back to a 1911 as long as you can keep them running reliably. I went back to .45 myself about 6 months ago against popular opinion, and am very happy with my decision.

[Navin Johnson]

Let's see....If you are using quality 1911's and have a back up....press on. I love your comment on easier to carry extra magazines...so true of any single stack. Capacity will not overcome skill....we are conditioned by group think that we need a G17 with a +2 mag or we can't survive.

The down sides to me are the weight (for carrying) and WHO/SHO situations where even a plastic 9 is easier to control.

1911's sure are nice IWB. Very safe for AIWB.

Hopefully some dim bulb will chime in and argue about a safety on a carry gun.

[Robinson]

Hopefully some dim bulb will chime in and argue about a safety on a carry gun.

Not really likely to happen around here.

[SAWBONES]

Assertions and arguments against the 1911, in any of its styles, are currently popular within "gun culture" writings, and have been so since around the latter '90s, especially on the internet, yet as recently as the latter '70s and throughout the '80s extending into the '90s, it was generally considered to be the premier self-defense pistol, especially in native .45 Auto form.

Has anything really changed so much?

Sure, we can mention such things as improvements in 9mm terminal ballistics, the lightweight reliability and lesser expense of polymer-framed pistols, the lower capacity of .45 Auto pistols, and the supposed unreliability of the 1911, but it remains true that all design improvements in 9mm ammunition are improvements in .45 Auto as well (which latter round outperforms the 9mm for any identical design), and that somewhat higher pistol weight and lower capacity in the 1911 aren't of ultimate or equal importance to everyone, and that the design of the 1911, when properly executed, is thoroughly reliable.

Add to this the never-surpassed quality of a properly-tuned 1911 trigger action, its capability for excellent accuracy and precision and the fact that long military experience with the 1911 design has made it perhaps the best-understood pistol in history (at least among aficionados and knowledgeable gunsmiths), and the balance of features, both pro & con, in comparing the 1911 to modern pistols as candidates for CCW and home defense really starts to look much more even.

Just sayin'. (Admittedly, I'm an old fart who likes and carries a tuned Colt Gunsite 1911 CCO in .45 Auto not infrequently.)
:cool:

[Hunter Rose]

Sounds good to me. I gave it serious consideration a couple years ago and then started to.

The obstacle I hit was the size and weight of my 2 full-size .45s for true EDC as in every dang day in close proximity with folks. More work than I remembered from back when that's all I carried but I only carried off post, mostly on weekends.

Go for it.

For the weight, I'm still in so not allowed to carry on base, so carry is nights if I'm going out and weekends.

Size is not an issue. A 1911 is the same size as a P30L, and the 1911 is thinner so I find it'a actually slightly easier to conceal (not that the P30L is difficult). I'm 6'5" 230 so can hide one AIWB in a T-shirt or even a tailor fitted shirt.

So far the 1911 in a SME is the most comfortable setup I have ever tried. Need to get some AIWB mag pouches though.

[Borderland]

Why not?

Some people actually carry revolvers (me).

I'm in the 'makes no difference what you carry as long as you know how to use it' camp.

Way too many people get hung up on the gear these days.

https://i.ibb.co/9rtqbZj/walt-longmire-approves.jpg

[Sammy1]

Last weekend I shot a steel challenge match. One of the guys on my squad ran his EDC 1911. He had no problem keeping up with the plastic guns and he managed to beat everyone that day for overall score.

[Yung]

Just wondering, of the pistol classes you went to with a high round count, did you ever take one of your 1911s or did you go strictly HK?

[GardoneVT]

Last weekend I shot a steel challenge match. One of the guys on my squad ran his EDC 1911. He had no problem keeping up with the plastic guns and he managed to beat everyone that day for overall score.

unpossible . whomsoever carries a single stack pistol is doomed to instant catastrophe , so says the Internet

[theJanitor]

A 1911 is a fine choice; I carry one of my Wilson Combat pistols frequently.

There is the EDC X9 to consider if capacity is a concern.

Agree on both. The EDC X9 isn't a perfect sub for a 1911, but it's close. I am deciding if I need to fund a second one.




So far the 1911 in a SME is the most comfortable setup I have ever tried.

If you've already got the SME for the 1911, and it's a well built piece (by the pics, I'm assuming so), AND you shoot it the best, it's a reasonable choice.

I've got a Colt in transit to MARS right now, to update into a EDC piece

[theJanitor]

I have a 9mm Wilson that I love, only reason I’m not currently carrying it isn’t it doesn’t have a red dot on it.

Call bob Reeves at Nighthawk. He'll square you away.

He installed the RMR on my LW CCO. He also just confirmed that he can do the RMR install on a tri-top Wilson EDC X9, and fab up a front sight (the EDC X9 sight is proprietary)

[sparkyfender]

Nothing wrong with a 1911 for carry in my opinion, and I really like the looks of your Colt.

Carry on!

[Robinson]

Has anything really changed so much?

No not really, (as you know) you can still get a really good one or a really crappy one based on the manufacturer, specs, and price range.

I think one thing that changed is that some well respected military and law enforcement organizations transitioned away from the 1911 to other pistols. This was done for some pretty good reasons, mostly related to the labor and cost associated with keeping a large number of 1911s running properly. The 1911 can be a terrific pistol for the knowledgeable individual user, or even units who want to invest the time and resources. But it's easier and more cost effective to issue a large number of modern polymer framed guns than a fleet of steel 1911s.

The news of those units transitioning away from the 1911 had an impact on viewpoints within the larger shooting culture.

[StraitR]

I think it sounds like a great option for you.

I think @StraitR (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=3620) carries a 1911 most of the time and has for sometime. He may be able to recommend holsters, parts, routines, or other helpful stuff.

If you can afford multiple pistols, the support gear, and you love the guns then do it. Strikers dominate the market, DA/SA have their followers, but 1911s are still very capable. I love my Dan Wesson.

-Cory

I did for two years, but bailed for something lighter when the Gadget became a reality. Mine was a steel frame 9mm commander, so that played a part. If I do it again, it will be a lightweight 9mm Commander. The glocks (19.5/43) have been working really well for me, so I don't foresee a change. That, and red dots are in my near future, so that's also 1911-prohibitive as well.

Holsters.... I used a 5-Shot SME the whole time, and it was insanely comfortable, although a bit thick. That's my personal pick for leather, and I'd say any of our PF Business Supporter kydex benders if you want something thinner.

[Hunter Rose]

Just wondering, of the pistol classes you went to with a high round count, did you ever take one of your 1911s or did you go strictly HK?

All classes were with either a USP Fullsize 9mm or a P30LS 9mm.

It's been a couple years since I've done a class, so I'm probably due for one. If I do go the 1911 route I'd like to do one just for the volume of rounds/repititions to wring out a new gun.

[Hunter Rose]

If you've already got the SME for the 1911, and it's a well built piece (by the pics, I'm assuming so), AND you shoot it the best, it's a reasonable choice.

I've got a Colt in transit to MARS right now, to update into a EDC piece


The pistol above is a MARS gun. You'll be happy with their work.

I'll be sending MARS another Colt to get made identically, and probably another one for the Golfball frontstrap/backstrap treatment and weld-on Maxwell. Steve's a great guy to deal with and his shop builds a great gun. Just be patient when it's getting built, as the build time sometimes takes longer than the estimates given.

Probably going to buy a Wilson CQB or Guncrafter No Name configured the same as the above gun to serve as the range training/beater gun.

My other gun is a Harrison Colt.



https://oi1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah298/semcmenamin/IMG_7645%202_zpsfr6py56e.jpg

[theJanitor]

The pistol above is a MARS gun. You'll be happy with their work.

I'll be sending MARS another Colt to get made identically, and probably another one for the Golfball frontstrap/backstrap treatment and weld-on Maxwell. Steve's a great guy to deal with and his shop builds a great gun. Just be patient when it's getting built, as the build time sometimes takes longer than the estimates given.

Probably going to buy a Wilson CQB or Guncrafter No Name configured the same as the above gun to serve as the range training/beater gun.

Yeah, I was thinking your pistol looked like Steve's work. I've seen firsthand, two builds that took two years apiece. So I'm expecting a long wait for a couple of simple things I'm asking for. I hope Steve can pull off what I'm asking for

Personally, I've parked the custom 1911's for the Wilson EDC X9. it addresses all the shortcomings of custom 1911's, except the price of admission

[1986s4]

Based on what you said about your infrequent training and you are better with the 1911 without constant training then one should carry the 1911. I do have a couple of points to make based on my opinion.
1) I reject the idea that a 1911 has to be expensive to work. My baseline is a Colt [or Springfield] I have no experience with any other brand. I don't carry my Colt .38 super so I don't mind abusing it. Last I cleaned it was Dec 2017. I shoot it then put it away and lube when it looks dry. Over the past 4 years it's been through 2X 2000 round no lube, no clean tests. It came through just fine, no broken parts and I found out what kind of mags and ammo it likes to function perfectly. I would carry it if I didn't have anything lighter to carry. It does get used in 2 gun matches.

2) There are a few double stack 9mm SAO's out there. I currently have a CZ 75 SAO and I used to have a SIG P226 SAO. Both are great IMO.

[breakingtime91]

Call bob Reeves at Nighthawk. He'll square you away.

He installed the RMR on my LW CCO. He also just confirmed that he can do the RMR install on a tri-top Wilson EDC X9, and fab up a front sight (the EDC X9 sight is proprietary)

Going to wait a few more years for something with the reliability track record of a Aimpoint Comp series optic before I put it on it. So glock for the next few years.

[MattyD380]

I rented a Springfield Milspec recently. Just for the hell of it. Hadn't picked up a 1911 in 2 or 3 years.

Teeny little group. Dead center. 10 yards.

Handed it to my new-to-shooting girlfriend... they're all touching.

I've never been seriously drawn to 1911s. But if I sit down and think about everything I like/want/value in a handgun: Crisp SA trigger, Single stack, Thin slide, Decent safety/decocker, Puts rounds where I put the freakin' sights.

Sounds like a 1911.

On top of that, I've had a great experience with a Browning Hi Power I picked up this Fall. It's probably my favorite shooter at this point, and the gun I shoot best with. It always impresses on paper and it gave me some very respectable strings in a recent steel match. And... it doesn't bust my beltline riding IWB. Though the grip is a little fat.

So, suffice to say, I'm "seeing the light" in a thin-carrying, SAO platform. I kinda want a traditional government 45. But, heresy aside, I kinda want a compact 9mm (like a Staccato C) more. I don't have Wilson/Brown money at this point in my life (short of a personal loan)... so... we'll see what form that desire takes.

[Tamara]

If the gun works well and you can run it well, I don't think it makes a ton of difference what you're carrying. Everything's got upsides and downsides.

[Totem Polar]

Except bacon. That’s pretty much all upside.

[Yung]

All classes were with either a USP Fullsize 9mm or a P30LS 9mm.

It's been a couple years since I've done a class, so I'm probably due for one. If I do go the 1911 route I'd like to do one just for the volume of rounds/repetitions to wring out a new gun.

It appears you have the blessing of the hivemind.

But the only thing I'll have left to say is that bringing your 1911s to a ~thousand round two day class or something along those lines -- for the first time -- may be the only thing needed to bring your reconciliation with them full circle ever since the day you took them back to the range.

[JohnK]

And a higher count class really isn't that bad with full power .45. I don't notice any measure difference in joint or hand soreness from something like a p30.

Also, the evidence locker concept used to bother me but doesn't anymore. I've become more cognizant of what the aftermath will be (legal, societal, mental aspects) no matter what the circumstances are than worrying about my Wilson rotting away.

[SW CQB 45]

I am with you

https://i.imgur.com/QjD0gvPl.jpg

This one will soon make the carry approval. Still working on sights.

https://i.imgur.com/mQD1wa6l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/do2nngJl.jpg

[Tamara]

But the only thing I'll have left to say is that bringing your 1911s to a ~thousand round two day class or something along those lines -- for the first time -- may be the only thing needed to bring your reconciliation with them full circle ever since the day you took them back to the range.

I've done that (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2010/10/hurt-so-good.html). What revelation was I supposed to experience?

[Tamara]

And a higher count class really isn't that bad with full power .45. I don't notice any measure difference in joint or hand soreness from something like a p30.

A steel-frame 5" gun in .45ACP at my first AFHF class was no biggie. I think that was the year Todd was running the P45.

I'd rather run my 4" steel 9mm Wilson for a couple of 500+ round days than a G19.

[mmc45414]

My other gun is a Harrison Colt.Love that mag well.

[Trooper224]

There are no real practical reasons to carry a 1911 here in the second decade of the 21st century and I say that as someone who was an ardent student of the type for a quarter of a century.

Now that I played the grown up...………..

The 1911 will still serve as well as it ever has. If you find yourself in one of those moments where the world goes sideways and fail, it's because of your own bad decisions not the type of pistol you chose to carry. I say that with the assumption you aren't a natural moron, because you're on PF and we're awesome. I'd rather have a hundred squared away dudes walking around my world packing 1911s, than one goon like the biscuit ass I just saw walking around the grocery store, openly carrying his modern plastic fantastic and one of those, "Hey, I'm a douche bag." badges clipped to his belt.

[Willard]

I am with you

https://i.imgur.com/QjD0gvPl.jpg

Please don't take this as me being a wise guy, but genuinely curious, how do you get to that spare mag for reloads with placement behind the pistol?

[HopetonBrown]

Please don't take this as me being a wise guy, but genuinely curious, how do you get to that spare mag for reloads with placement behind the pistol?For when your support hand is broken.

[Willard]

When your support hand is broke.

Got it. So this isn't the sole spare mag, it is just another option. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Still though, it would seem a position towards front of belt would be accessible by either hand. Just a technique I guess.

[Galbraith]

Please don't take this as me being a wise guy, but genuinely curious, how do you get to that spare mag for reloads with placement behind the pistol?

Single hand reloads. Make sure your mags can be accessed via both hands, and have a practical place to put your pistol while the one hand is doing the reload. Putting the pistol back in your holster is probably the best spot for strong hand, and having a mag behind the gun will make that reload easier.

[Willard]

Single hand reloads. Make sure your mags can be accessed via both hands, and have a practical place to put your pistol while the one hand is doing the reload. Putting the pistol back in your holster is probably the best spot for strong hand, and having a mag behind the gun will make that reload easier.

Now I got it. Thanks for that.

[SW CQB 45]

for duty
I have 3 mags on my left side and a single mag behind the pistol.

Plain clothes
2 mags on my left side and one behind the pistol.

We do drills with left hand....so I have a mag to load with my right hand.

I have 39" arm length....If I try... I will get that mag with my left hand.

[Yung]

What revelation was I supposed to experience?

I don't know that there is any revelation to be had. I just know that OP said he grew up on 1911s and likes them but he'd just happened to not ever run one in a class before, so doing that might be a nice idea.

[KevH]

It appears you have the blessing of the hivemind.

But the only thing I'll have left to say is that bringing your 1911s to a ~thousand round two day class or something along those lines -- for the first time -- may be the only thing needed to bring your reconciliation with them full circle ever since the day you took them back to the range.

Well let's see...

I've run a 45 ACP Government-sized 1911 through a CA POST 80 hour Firearm Instructor class...that's roughly around 2000 rounds..no cleaning...no problem.
I've run it through a Blackwater class taught by Bill Go.
I've run it through AFHF taught by Todd Green...not once but twice.
I've run it through Kyle Defoor's pistol class.
I've run it through Kyle Lamb's VTAC pistol class.
I've run it through Chris Costa's (yuck...waste of time and ammo) class.
I've run it through Ken Hackathorn's class....

I've shot thousands of rounds at in-service training and on my own time.

...all of these classes were shot with factory Federal or Winchester 230 gr FMJ except one where I ran through 1000 rounds of Wolf 230gr ball I had lying around. No problems experienced in any of them.

So I'm not quite sure what the point is you're trying to make.

Regarding switching back to the 1911 and using one in 2019...

Bill Go probably summed it up best so I'll quote him: "The 1911 is like a '55 Chevy Bel-Air and the Glock is like a new Toyota Camry. They both do the same thing. The Camry does almost everything better in every way and might make more sense, but the 1911 just has this something about it. It's an enthusiasts pistol."

For those of us that run the 1911 it grabs your soul and won't let go. I keep trying to leave it and I keep coming back. It's not a gun for everyone and I think it would be a stupid gun to issue in 2019, but if you have one built right to begin with, know how to work on it, to take care of it and fix it when needed, there isn't anything else quite like it.

I have a bunch, but here is my baby...

https://i.imgur.com/MSiuwmV.jpg

[TGS]

I think you would be better served by sticking to a double stack pistol. There's a great video floating around here of a cop on a traffic stop that has a driver pull a gun on him, and he gets shot. Pulls out his 1911 and empties the entire mag, very rapidly, and very accurately at the perp....and right into the B-pillar, because that's what the perp was behind. Perp casually gets out of the car while the cop is sitting there with an empty gun and a shot hand. Thankfully he ran off instead of finishing off the cop.

"But I'm not a cop!" So what? Private citizens do have encounters in/around vehicles as well, so the same possibility exists for you. The video simply resonated with me and I think serves as a good example regardless of the fact that the shooter was a cop....we're all practicing Bill Drills and other similar drills, and very capable of emptying a 1911s mag before our OODA loop catches up. I think it behooves us to carry a magazine that allows us that luxury. I don't want to be in that cop's situation.

With the way my logic works, there's no reason to not have a double stack pistol with a reload that's bigger than all 2-3 of your single stack mags put together. I don't carry a 20 round mag for my Glock 19 because I feel threatened without it; I carry it simply because I can, and there's no good reason not to have that extra capability given it conceals the same and is reliable. The performance differences in your shooting between the 1911 and Glock are probably relatively minor and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. If the performance difference means that much to you, then there's no reason (if money isn't an object, as stated) that you can't go with the EDC X9 and have that performance plus some, due to the lower recoil, as well as have double stack magazine capacity.

With all that said, I don't think it's irresponsible to go for the 1911.

In the end, you do you. You're still "90% of the way there", so to say, if you have a 1911 or even a K-frame. Going by Tom Givens' data, you'll likely be fine. The way my mind works, I just can't figure out a reason to not have the remaining bit and instead handicap myself for no real reason other than "the feels."

[Doublestack45]

Post deleted

[TGS]

Another thought:

Regarding the lines of thought revolving around "capacity will not overcome skill". Yeah, that's a true statement, but why say it? A given shooter is the same shooter with the same amount of skill regardless of what gun he carries. I see this phrase commonly thrown out there with the idea that someone who carries more ammo is somehow doing so because they lack skill, or that people who carry a single stack don't need the extra ammo because they have skill, and carrying a 1911 is indicative of such.

If I trade in my Glock 19 for my S&W Model 19, does that mean my skill is now better? I'm more of a man than you, damnit. I don't need no stinkin double-stack magazine, I got skill, and your double stack mag won't overcome my skill.

No, that's obviously absurd.

It's a falsehood. Objectively, a given shooter has more capability with a double stack pistol compared to a single stack pistol or revolver. Their skill level does not increase simply because they carry a single stack pistol and make machismo statements about skill vs capacity....the two attributes are not mutually exclusive, yet people often try to frame this issue as if it is, simply as a method of placating their insecurities. Objectively, a given shooter has less capability if he carries a gun with less capacity compared to more capacity.

[Hunter Rose]

For those of us that run the 1911 it grabs your soul and won't let go. I keep trying to leave it and I keep coming back. It's not a gun for everyone and I think it would be a stupid gun to issue in 2019, but if you have one built right to begin with, know how to work on it, to take care of it and fix it when needed, there isn't anything else quite like it.







With the way my logic works, there's no reason to not have a double stack pistol with a reload that's bigger than all 2-3 of your single stack mags put together. I don't carry a 20 round mag for my Glock 19 because I feel threatened without it; I carry it simply because I can, and there's no good reason not to have that extra capability given it conceals the same and is reliable. The performance differences in your shooting between the 1911 and Glock are probably relatively minor and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. If the performance difference means that much to you, then there's no reason (if money isn't an object, as stated) that you can't go with the EDC X9 and have that performance plus some, due to the lower recoil, as well as have double stack magazine capacity.



The two quotes above are essentially my conflicted mindset. For the last 6 years the hi-cap polymer argument has won out. The effortless accuracy from the 1911 is what had me starting this thread. Maybe I'll split the difference and dedicate a year to the HK45. I'm also thinking about getting a Guncrafter Industries 9mm Commander built.

I think a timer and some drills with the 1911, HK45, and HK P30LS 9mm are in my future. Then I can decide based off hard datapoints instead of the "feels", because let's face it, the 1911 always wins the "feels" battle.

[TGS]

The two quotes above are essentially my conflicted mindset. For the last 6 years the hi-cap polymer argument has won out. The effortless accuracy from the 1911 is what had me starting this thread. Maybe I'll split the difference and dedicate a year to the HK45. I'm also thinking about getting a Guncrafter Industries 9mm Commander built.

I think a timer and some drills with the 1911, HK45, and HK P30LS 9mm are in my future. Then I can decide based off hard datapoints instead of the "feels", because let's face it, the 1911 always wins the "feels" battle.

I think going with the HK45 would be the worst of both worlds. While it's mechanically a very precise gun, your practical accuracy is t going g to be any better....it's still a P-series "wet potato chip" trigger. ;)

EDC X9 is a sexy beast. If you got the coin, man, that is a sweeeeet pistol. I'd probably drop the money on such if I had the money for two and wasn't beholden to agency policy.

[BK14]

I went through the transition program to carry a 1911, carried one for two weeks, had malfunctions, and switched back to Glock for the last year or so.

Then I made a trip to a mag restricted state, and figured now that I had the 1911 back running well I’d carry it while over there. I fell back in love with the 1911, carried a full size steel 9mm on and off duty. Switched up my kit to carry a ton of mags and felt super squared away.

Two things pulled me back to Glock:

1) Red dots.

2) shooting a competition match. No matter how much I was practicing my reloads, my buddies shooting limited and carry optics crushed me.

No matter how much I trained on the 1911, my performance never surpassed my Glock 34. My groups at 25 on a B8 are negligible in difference, and my splits when running close up are minuscule in difference.

So for me, the capacity, reliability, ease of maintenance/being my own armorer, and red dot capability made the Glock the better choice.

All that to say:

I would go back to a 1911 any day and eventually I’ll probably get bit by that bug and go back. What I found was that I needed to set up my gear to cope with the deficits.

Off duty, I’d always carry a magazine in appendix, at work I carried a bunch of mags, including one right behind the gun for strong hand only reloads. For dealing with the weight I used a padded belt, or a wide inner belt. Off duty, a supportive holster like the JMCK wing claw, or a raven phantom style holster.


Short version: I carried a 1911 as of 2 months ago, and I’d go back in a heart beat. I think there are better options, but if you like it and have a solid gear setup with reliable guns, do it. Just train, find solutions to overcome the capacity limitations and enjoy.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/e54adf94681ce8f4e6ec19032d21b5aa.jpg


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/f2e01872d1d905375e96f1311b4b05bb.jpg

[theJanitor]

EDC X9 is a sexy beast. If you got the coin, man, that is a sweeeeet pistol.

Yup. The X9 addresses all the “shortcomings” of the traditional 1911, except the cost of entry. I think Wilson hit it out of the park except for a few minor details (rear sight shape, and light rail notch placement)

[Hunter Rose]

I think going with the HK45 would be the worst of both worlds. While it's mechanically a very precise gun, your practical accuracy is t going g to be any better....it's still a P-series "wet potato chip" trigger. ;)



On that I would have to disagree. Before shooting the 1911s again I was weighing the pros/cons of ditching the P30 LS and dedicating myself to the HK45. I run all my HKs single action only, and the HK45's SA trigger is actually very decent. It is essentially a USP Match trigger, not a P-series trigger.

The HK45 grip with the smaller backstop is my second favorite grip behind the 1911. If HK had come out with an HK9 based off the HK45 instead of the P30, I would have the perfect gun for me.

For the EDC X9, it's still a little too new/boutique for me. Maybe in five years I'll look at it.

[Hunter Rose]

Thanks for all the replies, it's brought up some good points. Keep them coming if you have other insights.

Since I've had a long break, I wanted to start back with a single and truly dedicate some time to mastering it. A new range opened up literally 3 minutes from my house, so the training reps/trigger time is going to increase dramatically. This discussions is very helpful for me working through what to dedicate serious training time to master.

[Shorikid]

Hunter Rose,

Have you looked at the GI x2 pistols? Since you were looking at their guns already. Or an STI? Plenty of capacity, can save on weight, still the 1911 trigger, controls, and accuracy.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Bucky]

For the EDC X9, it's still a little too new/boutique for me. Maybe in five years I'll look at it.

I follow every thread I find on them, and I’ve heard of no mechanical shortcomings. Admittedly, there are several people who flipped them, but they all were people that didn’t prefer how they shot.

I have over 3 K through minewithout even a hint of a hiccup.

[Hunter Rose]

Hunter Rose,

Have you looked at the GI x2 pistols? Since you were looking at their guns already. Or an STI? Plenty of capacity, can save on weight, still the 1911 trigger, controls, and accuracy.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


I started with 1911s but have also always been an HK guy, and never been without HK pistols on hand since the USP came out. Reliability is extremely important to me, and my HK pistols have given me zero issues. My experience with 5" 1911's is has been very good and there is a ton of data on what it takes to make and keep them reliable.

My curiosity is piqued by a 9mm Commander, but that's about as far from the 1911 norm as I'd be willing to go at this time (most likely as just a range toy/fun gun). The new hybrid double stack polymer 9mm 1911's mentioned above are a little too boutique me personally. If they're around with people singing their praises in 5 years I may give them a look.

[Hunter Rose]

I follow every thread I find on them, and I’ve heard of no mechanical shortcomings. Admittedly, there are several people who flipped them, but they all were people that didn’t prefer how they shot.

I have over 3 K through minewithout even a hint of a hiccup.

I remember when the Wilson KZ45 and KZ9 came out. Essentially the same initial glowing reviews and reliability was pretty good, but soon enthusiasm faded. I think they're discontinued now?

Not saying the EDC X9 isn't the perfect gun, but I prefer to let others wring out guns with tens or hundreds of thousands of rounds to discover their true reliability before I adopt (probably why I love HKs).

[TheNewbie]

I shot a Gen 3 G17 over a decade ago at the academy. I placed second in my class, and only lost because of a screwed up reload on my end.

It's likely I will be returning to a Gen3 17 for duty carry. So while it's not a 1911, I understand your desire to return to what worked.

When I shot the G17, I didn't know it didn't fit my hand or there were better options. I just shot it and shot it well.

[KPD]

I love 1911s. I cannot run them well at all. I tried and tried to get comfortable with a 1911 and when I have to start running one at speed I just can’t do it well. I miss the thumb safety. I mess up the slide release. I fumble reloads. I got to where I felt I was okay once and carried one on duty. A situation arose and I had to draw down on someone and nothing felt natural. I had to think about every step I wanted to take with the gun. I was thinking more about what I had to do with the gun and less about dealing with the situation. I went to the office and got the P229 back out and it was like old home week. I transitioned to a VP9 and had no issues with it. The different mag release feels normal to me, even under stress.

For me a 1911 will probably be nothing more than a fun gun. A friend of mine runs a 1911 like he was born with it and carries one on duty. For him the 1911 works and works well.

I love revolvers and started my career with a 686. I can carry one on duty if I want and some days I do. Those are the days that I know it’s just office duty. Even then the VP9 is in a UNITY CLUTCH just in case I need to throw it on quick though. I don’t like the idea of going to do a search warrant or have an active shooter call with 23 rounds on hand in a slow to reload firearm. I am including 5 rounds carried in my LCR BUG in that number also. With the VP9 I have 21 rounds in the gun and thirty more in reloads. The VP9 is an easier gun to shoot well and reloads faster with more bullets on board. Every bullet I have is an opportunity for success. The more rounds I can reasonably carry and put into use are more chances for me to prevail.

[Lost River]

I shot a Gen 3 G17 over a decade ago at the academy. I placed second in my class, and only lost because of a screwed up reload on my end.

It's likely I will be returning to a Gen3 17 for duty carry. So while it's not a 1911, I understand your desire to return to what worked.

When I shot the G17, I didn't know it didn't fit my hand or there were better options. I just shot it and shot it well.




"I shot a Gen 3 G17 (G21 .45ACP) over a decade ago (Last century) at the academy. I placed second in my class, and only lost because of a screwed up reload on my end (Lets just say I ended up on a plaque in the halls).

It's likely I will be returning to a Gen3 17 for duty carry.(My days of pushing a patrol car are long, thats a game for young guys with good backs, but I would not hesitate to run my old Glock .45.) So while it's not a 1911, I understand your desire to return to what worked.

When I shot the G17, (G21.) I didn't know it didn't fit my hand or there were better options. I just shot it and shot it well."





While these days I primarily shoot a 9mm Glock, if ammo costs were not a concern, I could easily switch to a .45 and not look back. Between a full size G21, and a G19 sized G30S, I have been very pleased with the shooting performance of .45 ACP Glocks. Plus I would take a serious look at the G41 if I were to go that route.

I highly doubt that will happen, but Newbie's post and experience seemed to parallel mine, just with a different diameter hole in the barrel.

[Bucky]

I remember when the Wilson KZ45 and KZ9 came out. Essentially the same initial glowing reviews and reliability was pretty good, but soon enthusiasm faded. I think they're discontinued now?


A friend of mine had both of these early on, and I don’t know anyone that shot them would give either a glowing review.

[JTQ]

I think a timer and some drills with the 1911, HK45, and HK P30LS 9mm are in my future.
Not apples to apples, but Beretta has this old PX4 video on their website - PX4 9, vs PX4 .40 (constant action), vs PX4 .45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=367&v=Z48ziF76hwY

[newt]

I regularly carry 1911's and the EDC X9. I haven't felt under-armed, although I do tend to carry more magazines when I'm carrying a single stack. I've had threats against me on a semi-regular basis, and I don't feel undergunned.

For the EDC X9, I've had really good success with that gun. A decent number of rounds and no issues. I really think they made a great mix of a gun that sorta has 1911 and BHP ergonomics. I think of it like a glock for the 1911 collector who spends too much money on guns as a hobby as well as for protection. :)

[Robinson]

I've had threats against me on a semi-regular basis...

That might make an interesting topic for the Mindset & Tactics sub-forum.

[03RN]

Kinda forgot if I posted:o

I've been carrying a 4" .357(or .38 during the time it was down) for the better part of the last year but do grab a 1911 here and there if I feel I need the extra few rounds. Before my 6 gun journey I was primarily a 1911 shooter since I was 16. 35 now and I enjoy TDA guns and tolerate strikers for their utility but I much prefer carrying 1911s. They are thinner and the mag is significantly thinner.

The weight isn't a huge deal since it's the only thing on my belt.
37519

They just feel natural to me. Ok 9 rounds isn't 19 but I'm ok with that. If I really felt I needed more than I'd grab a Beretta and would if I was back in Iraq. CONUS? Pssh I'm fine with a 6 shooter. I try really hard not to suck and feel confident in my choices.


https://youtu.be/5VKgEwAY1Y8

[03RN]

That might make an interesting topic for the Mindset & Tactics sub-forum.

Apparently 2 of my patients have plans to murder me. "Patient states"
This is my concerned face.:cool:

[45dotACP]

Apparently 2 of my patients have plans to murder me. "Patient states"
This is my concerned face.:cool:Don't you just play cards or something bro?

Your line of thought is pretty similar to mine actually. Carrying a 9mm commander off the clock from the hospital and not worried about my eleven rounds getting me killed on the street.

Old school sure, but if my USPSA classifiers mean anything, I shoot 1911s better as a rule.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[03RN]

Don't you just play cards or something bro?

Feel like a punching bag lately

[StraitR]

...but do grab a 1911 here and there if I feel I need the extra few rounds.

Now there's something you don't hear very often. :)

[03RN]

Now there's something you don't hear very often. :)

Lol, I know right.
37533
Plus a speed loader in my front right pocket and the bullet slide right behind the grip(neither shown).37535
19vs18

[OnionsAndDragons]

I’m just going to throw some gas on the fire:

If money isn’t a real obstacle, what about a custom 2011?

I had a chance to shoot one of Zito’s builds last year and it was sexy as hell. If I had a years worth of extra mortgage payments to burn, I’d buy one. Or maybe one of those Chambers night fighter guns...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JAD]

Double column 1911 interactions seem to get pretty Sisyphean.

[PNWTO]

Double column 1911 interactions seem to get pretty Sisyphean.

When the competition community, Timmies, garage smiths, and the military-industrial complex all have the same issues with the 2011... that's a sign from your deity of choice.

[MattyD380]

Double column 1911 interactions seem to get pretty Sisyphean.

Was Sisyphus the guy who pushed the thing up the mountain? Is that to say 2011s are futilely polarizing?

I've never shot one. Or held one. Unless you count the Staccato C. Which was sweet.

[theJanitor]

I’m just going to throw some gas on the fire:

If money isn’t a real obstacle, what about a custom 2011?

I had a chance to shoot one of Zito’s builds last year and it was sexy as hell. If I had a years worth of extra mortgage payments to burn, I’d buy one. Or maybe one of those Chambers night fighter guns...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A Nightfighter (with fixed sights) would be awesome. But not for the money he’s asking. And not when my EDC X9 is exceptional

[willie]

I bought my first 1911 in March of 1970 and have had owned and shot dozens. Before the purchase in 1970 I had been shooting other folks' 1911's since a teenager. I'm comfortable with the platform. Perhaps the word comfort is a key descriptor. I think many shooters buy 1911's and fail to achieve comfort, and many of these may not know how to run them--just as some do not understand the revolver.

[revchuck38]

Was Sisyphus the guy who pushed the thing up the mountain? Is that to say 2011s are futility?

FIFY.

[tgoldie00]

Disclaimer: I love my 1911s. I also love to carry them (more on that below). Having said that, moving between platforms requires additional diligence if switching somewhat often. I also admit…being a cheap-skate…I don’t want to give up a cherished rig to the Police for an undetermined amount of time should things go sideways and I get into a shoot (and nothing would make me happier if that NEVER happens).

I like carrying my Officers/Defender sized 1911s quite a bit (I will throw my EDC X9 in this basket as well), as do I a specific CZ P-01 (SA/DA). The kicker in carrying different actions is of course practicing that action prior to carrying, and repeating often. When I make a switch, usually the night before (and following morning) I intend to carry, I complete some repetitive dry-fire practice with a laser bullet/target (records scoring, timing, etc.) to ensure I am focusing on that specific pistol and its associate action ( as well as draw, holster, belt…all of it). This includes practice defeating garments…..everything soup to nuts. I try to get 200-300 reps in between the two sessions to “wake up” my muscle memory for the platform…because lord knows if SHTF, I don’t want to be pulling a trigger and sending a flyer (DA first pull), or not defeat a safety (1911).

[JAD]

Was Sisyphus the guy who pushed the thing up the mountain? Is that to say 2011s are futilely polarizing?.

No, just that some of the people I know who have tried to achieve carry reliability with double column 1911s — at least before the EDCX9, which seems exceptional— have dealt with a frustrating-seeming routine of magazine tuning. Some people seem to do fine with them.

[JAD]

Was Sisyphus the guy who pushed the thing up the mountain? Is that to say 2011s are futilely polarizing?.

No, just that some of the people I know who have tried to achieve carry reliability with double column 1911s — at least before the EDCX9, which seems exceptional— have dealt with a frustrating-seeming routine of magazine tuning. Some people seem to do fine with them.

[Robinson]

Disclaimer: I love my 1911s. I also love to carry them (more on that below). Having said that, moving between platforms requires additional diligence if switching somewhat often. I also admit…being a cheap-skate…I don’t want to give up a cherished rig to the Police for an undetermined amount of time should things go sideways and I get into a shoot (and nothing would make me happier if that NEVER happens).

I like carrying my Officers/Defender sized 1911s quite a bit (I will throw my EDC X9 in this basket as well), as do I a specific CZ P-01 (SA/DA). The kicker in carrying different actions is of course practicing that action prior to carrying, and repeating often. When I make a switch, usually the night before (and following morning) I intend to carry, I complete some repetitive dry-fire practice with a laser bullet/target (records scoring, timing, etc.) to ensure I am focusing on that specific pistol and its associate action ( as well as draw, holster, belt…all of it). This includes practice defeating garments…..everything soup to nuts. I try to get 200-300 reps in between the two sessions to “wake up” my muscle memory for the platform…because lord knows if SHTF, I don’t want to be pulling a trigger and sending a flyer (DA first pull), or not defeat a safety (1911).

Of course, the things you are saying make a strong argument for carrying, practicing, and training with one type of pistol instead of switching around.

[tgoldie00]

Of course, the things you are saying make a strong argument for carrying, practicing, and training with one type of pistol instead of switching around.

And to your point, which I didn't mention specifically above, I carry (roughly 90% of the time I am carrying) either a Glock 19 or 43 (and am transitioning to mostly the 48 now as it splits the difference quite nicely). As the action is the same between them….it is easy to transition between them based on need (and clothing/concealment needs) and essentially land in the same practice methodology.

[ubervic]

My thought is that the success and effectiveness with carrying any given pistol is largely dependent on the carrier's commitment to running it well. It just so happens that many 1911's are more demanding in this regard than your average Glock, for example. Call me Captain Obvious.

There are many cases of people not understanding or appreciating the depth of awareness & commitment necessary to select/tune/maintain a 1911 and run it reliably well, and they quickly become frustrated. I do not see this issue with the OP; in fact, I see the opposite.

Press forward, friend, and enjoy the ride.

[shane45]

In the past I would agree with the thoughts on the 2011. However, recent reports appear positive. It seems STI has put in the work and changed up the mags and reliability is reportedly very good now. Im drawing this from a few shooters I have chatted with that own all the usual suspects of high end 1911's. So I bought one but I haven't shot it enough to draw any conclusions yet. I have owned a few and handled a fair number of 2011's in the past. NONE of them had the apparent build quality of the new one I acquired. Any one else carrying one of the current/recent manufacture STI models targeted at carry?

[Amp]

Wilson just announced the EDC X9L:

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/edc-x9l/?utm_source=Wilson+Combat&utm_campaign=005c8c7521-EDC_X9L_TrueZero_04_23_19&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d7d9381842-005c8c7521-35661725

[theJanitor]

That is the ugliest thing to ever come out of Wilson’s shop.

Had I preferred a longer pistol, I would have preferred a 1” comp with the front sight mounted to it, and extended mags

I guess I’ll start deciding whether I need a second, 4” model


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JAD]

The mag well is unfortunate.

[45dotACP]

That is the ugliest thing to ever come out of Wilson’s shop.

Had I preferred a longer pistol, I would have preferred a 1” comp with the front sight mounted to it, and extended mags

I guess I’ll start deciding whether I need a second, 4” model


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBro, do you even KZ-45

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[theJanitor]

The KZ45 was beautiful compared to this. Like Heidi Klum compared to Amy Winehouse, kind of beautiful

[LSP552]

The mag well is unfortunate.

Ugly for sure. Perhaps it’s an option and not standard.

[TAZ]

The mag well is unfortunate.

I think the $3k price tag is even more unfortunate. OUCH.

[HopetonBrown]

Ugly for sure. Perhaps it’s an option and not standard.According to their post on Instagram it's optional.

[JSGlock34]

According to their post on Instagram it's optional.

Here it is without the magwell.

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/images/EDCX-LP-9_R%20copy.jpg

[theJanitor]

Here it is without the magwell.

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/images/EDCX-LP-9_R%20copy.jpg

much better

[358156hp]

Since my FNS is now out of commission, pending return to FNH for the recall I'm running low on plastic 9mms right now. There's a new M&P 9C in route, but I probably won't see it until next week. My 1911s are on the shelf above the unloaded and disgraced former FNS "house" gun, drinking whiskey and teasing the FNS & the P320, recently returned after 6 months at SIG for the "voluntary" upgrade.

I'm a little rusty on 1911s, but we have such a history together that I'm sure I can be really productive with them in short order. The revolvers are the same way. Hopefully the new M&P will save the situation for plastic guns around here.

If only 1911 weren't so heavy anymore. When did that happen?

[revchuck38]

If only 1911 weren't so heavy anymore. When did that happen?

Yeah, my Commander sure has put on some weight...

[Tamara]

No, just that some of the people I know who have tried to achieve carry reliability with double column 1911s — at least before the EDCX9, which seems exceptional—

Because the X9 sensibly abandoned the attempt to engineer a double-column 1911 magazine and instead went to the GP35's magazine geometry.

[Corse]

Here it is without the magwell.

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/images/EDCX-LP-9_R%20copy.jpg

That’s the way to do it.

[PNWTO]

This thread isn’t helping my desire for some sort of MEUSOC clone-ish pistol and to put the Gastons in the safe for a awhile.

[JSGlock34]

This thread isn’t helping my desire for some sort of MEUSOC clone-ish pistol and to put the Gastons in the safe for a awhile.

I went down the MEUSOC rabbit hole - great project gun. I sold it to fund my beloved Wilson Combat Protector Elite, but I like to geek out about the last 1911s to see military service.

If you even think you might want to build a MEUSOC clone in the future, grab the next Springfield PX9109L you see with the classic roll marks. Springfield recently changed their 1911 roll marks (not for the better IMHO) and they no longer evoke the MEUSOC guns. The PX9109L is practically a MEUSOC ringer out of the box - add a set of Pachmayr grips and you are well on your way.

[M2CattleCo]

Since my FNS is now out of commission, pending return to FNH for the recall I'm running low on plastic 9mms right now. There's a new M&P 9C in route, but I probably won't see it until next week. My 1911s are on the shelf above the unloaded and disgraced former FNS "house" gun, drinking whiskey and teasing the FNS & the P320, recently returned after 6 months at SIG for the "voluntary" upgrade.

I'm a little rusty on 1911s, but we have such a history together that I'm sure I can be really productive with them in short order. The revolvers are the same way. Hopefully the new M&P will save the situation for plastic guns around here.

If only 1911 weren't so heavy anymore. When did that happen?

You need an Al-You-Minium frame in your life.

This one shot a cold 10 round group that I could cover with my hand, standing, 27 yards, in a 20mph wind yesterday. Carries more like a Glock 43 than a 19, shoots like a bullseye gun, and is not a plastic junker.



https://photos.smugmug.com/Wilson-Combat/i-52HpXnj/0/c392da7a/X3/C0655E3F-5D91-411C-BB57-0A16E98A5E5C-X3.jpg

[JohnK]

You need an Al-You-Minium frame in your life.

This one shot a cold 10 round group that I could cover with my hand, standing, 27 yards, in a 20mph wind yesterday. Carries more like a Glock 43 than a 19, shoots like a bullseye gun, and is not a plastic junker.



https://photos.smugmug.com/Wilson-Combat/i-52HpXnj/0/c392da7a/X3/C0655E3F-5D91-411C-BB57-0A16E98A5E5C-X3.jpg

It's actually "allunimunn," dummy, the "s" is silent.

[revchuck38]

...and is not a plastic junker.

This is not a plastic Junker, either:

37593

[45dotACP]

I wonder about that plastic 1911 that RRA makes...the idea is pure sacrilege, but if it works I'm definitely down for some sacred cattle steaks...

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Wondering Beard]

This is not a plastic Junker, either:

37593

Did this Junker have any plastic?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-363-2258-11%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_88.jpg

[theJanitor]

The greatest part of never leaving the 1911, is never telling people that you're "going back"

I suppose I left by going to the EDC X9, but I'm still lumping that into the 1911/2011 group :cool:

[Shorikid]

I wonder about that plastic 1911 that RRA makes...the idea is pure sacrilege, but if it works I'm definitely down for some sacred cattle steaks...

Sent from my moto g(6) using TapatalkI just wonder why some people aren't all over this. A poly framed 1911 would be great.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[blake_g]

I just wonder why some people aren't all over this. A poly framed 1911 would be great.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Right up until you had to pistol-whip some scrote-bag who sorely deserved it...

[Shorikid]

Right up until you had to pistol-whip some scrote-bag who sorely deserved it...If I'm down to pistol whipping a scote-bag, things have gone all kinds of sideways and I'll take what I can get! Polymer pistol, 2x4, the neighbor's dog, whatever comes to hand.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[blake_g]

If I'm down to pistol whipping a scote-bag, things have gone all kinds of sideways and I'll take what I can get! Polymer pistol, 2x4, the neighbor's dog, whatever comes to hand.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I can guarantee that it's better with a fist-full of steel...

[ralph]

This is not a plastic Junker, either:

37593

I think the correct pronouncation of that would be with a silent "j".... more like "yoounker" and, no they were'nt junkers, either..:p

[RevolverRob]

Do it.

I did.

It started simply enough, I carried 1911s from 21-28. At one point, I had seven 1911s, between Les Baer, Wilson, Colt, and Springfield. I sold all of them to help pay for my wife's master's degree. And I switched over to revolvers. When I moved to ChIraq, I went to HK P30 with LEM. I shot them pretty well and life was fine. Then my dad gave me his old heavily customized Officer's and one short range trip reminded me how much I love 1911s, that was ~14 months ago.

In that time, I've acquired a used Kimber that runs great (and is my main carry gun) and a custom-built 2011 in 9mm. Along with nearly two-dozen mags and nine holsters. My next two will be a CCO of some version and a Rock River Poly.

Translation = Do it, get rid of everything else. Get you a 9mm 1911 or some type (EDC X9 would be the choice).

[DocGKR]

A 1911 was the first pistol I shot, the first pistol I purchased, the first handgun I qualified on in the military--they were great tools, much like the 1991 Caprice Classic, Motorola Flip Phone, and Apple Lisa I also used to use....

Now I have less expensive, easier to service, more versatile tools available to me in the 21st Century....

[shane45]

For me, I can switch between the LEM and a 1911 when at the range no problem. No interference with the "software". But when I through a TDA in the mix it really messes me up and I start having software issues with all 3! My theory why the LEM doesnt bother me is because it's similar to my 2 stage ar triggers.

[Totem Polar]

I wonder about that plastic 1911 that RRA makes...the idea is pure sacrilege, but if it works I'm definitely down for some sacred cattle steaks...


I like it...


https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31800&stc=1&d=1540772244


https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31801&stc=1&d=1540772288

[sharps54]

I like it...


https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31800&stc=1&d=1540772244


https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31801&stc=1&d=1540772288

I don’t necessarily want to derail this thread but could you post a brief review of it?

[Totem Polar]

I don’t necessarily want to derail this thread but could you post a brief review of it?

Sure. It shoots like an envisioned 85/15 mix between a DW valor series, and a gen 5 G17...

;)


I’ll start a separate thread later today after work and flesh that out a bit, but that’s really the nut of it. Stay tuned...

[psalms144.1]

Like Doc, I "grew up" shooting 1911s, and they're still my all time favorite pistol. If I need to show off on the range, it's my definitive go to.

Having said that, except for one 1911 that's got sentimental value, all of mine are sold off at this point. Why? There are so many other platforms that do everything a 1911 does cheaper, lighter, smaller, and with more rounds on board. If I NEED a full size .45 ACP, my go to now is a S&W M&P 2.0 45 FS, 10+1 on board and a 14 round mag as a reload. If I NEED a slim, lightweight, easy to shoot pistol, a P365 or G43X/G48 do that in spades, with MUCH lighter weight, easier maintenance, and more capacity. Not to mention, I can buy 3-10 of any of those pistols for the cost of a 1911 I'd be willing to bet my life on (or, more realistically, two pistols, a crap ton of mags, and a larger crap ton of ammunition for training). If I ever felt I HAD to carry a small, slim, lightweight 45, the S&W Shield in 45 offers the same capacity as an Officer's model or CCO, is lighter, easier to maintain, and not far behind in shootability.

Again, don't get me wrong, I love the platform, and, if you don't mind a large, heavy, capacity challenged gun for carry, get on with your bad self, as long as you're a dedicated user that can run the platform well under stress.

[LSP552]

Like Doc, I "grew up" shooting 1911s, and they're still my all time favorite pistol. If I need to show off on the range, it's my definitive go to.

Having said that, except for one 1911 that's got sentimental value, all of mine are sold off at this point. Why? There are so many other platforms that do everything a 1911 does cheaper, lighter, smaller, and with more rounds on board. If I NEED a full size .45 ACP, my go to now is a S&W M&P 2.0 45 FS, 10+1 on board and a 14 round mag as a reload. If I NEED a slim, lightweight, easy to shoot pistol, a P365 or G43X/G48 do that in spades, with MUCH lighter weight, easier maintenance, and more capacity. Not to mention, I can buy 3-10 of any of those pistols for the cost of a 1911 I'd be willing to bet my life on (or, more realistically, two pistols, a crap ton of mags, and a larger crap ton of ammunition for training). If I ever felt I HAD to carry a small, slim, lightweight 45, the S&W Shield in 45 offers the same capacity as an Officer's model or CCO, is lighter, easier to maintain, and not far behind in shootability.

Again, don't get me wrong, I love the platform, and, if you don't mind a large, heavy, capacity challenged gun for carry, get on with your bad self, as long as you're a dedicated user that can run the platform well under stress.

Thanks a lot Kevin.....

Just when I’m thinking screw logic I’m retired, you bitch slap me back to reality.

[psalms144.1]

Thanks a lot Kevin.....

Just when I’m thinking screw logic I’m retired, you bitch slap me back to reality.Your humble servant, sir!

[Robinson]

Obviously 15-17 rounds of 9mm is better than 10 rounds of 9mm when it comes to capacity. But 10 rounds of good 9mm defensive ammo isn't terrible either. A proven 9mm Lightweight Commander makes for a nice carry pistol. But it's not for everyone.

[Rex G]

A 1911 was the first pistol I shot, the first pistol I purchased, the first handgun I qualified on in the military--they were great tools, much like the 1991 Caprice Classic, Motorola Flip Phone, and Apple Lisa I also used to use....

Now I have less expensive, easier to service, more versatile tools available to me in the 21st Century....

Well, one of the several* significant reasons I retired from LEO-ing in very early 2018, rather than hanging around another year, or two, or few, was the miniaturized-SUV Ford “Police Interceptor” I was obligated to use as a patrol vehicle, when we down-sized from Tahoes. I would have been glad to revert to a 1991 Caprice Classic, rather than have myself intercepted when I tried to bail quickly from the Ford SUV. (I was still wearing a size 34 duty belt, same as in the academy 34 year earlier, so it was not too many donuts.)

I wish Verizon or AT&T still supported my Motorola Star Tac or my Samsung flip phones. I loved ‘em. :)

Never used an Apple Lisa, so will agree with you, there. :)

To be clear, my “tone” is good-natured; not argumentative. :)

Not that I am a Luddite; I have a G42 lounge-around-the-house gun on my person, right now, and am likely to be carrying a G17 or G19x when I go out and about, but there are times it just feels right to carry one of my 5” Les Baers, especially if a longer-range engagement is seen as being more probable than would be normal.

*Other significant reasons were the arrival of grandson #2, and exhaustion due to the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey, both the extra hours on duty and the clean-up of our place.

[Hunter Rose]

I get that objectively a poly 9mm makes more sense, especially for someone with a Law Enforcement background. The 1911 is just so damn fast inside 10 yards. It's essentially a point and shoot weapon to me. With only the roughest of sight pictures its easy to get hits within 1" of intended aimpoint at max speed. More drills with a timer are in order, but the 1911 is definitely not out of the running. I still feel more confident in hitting a target with it than the P30LS.

I'll be honest, I also have a hard time reconciling the fact that I'm somehow underarmed or making a poor choice with an 8+1 .45 ACP that I can confidently hit with out to 25 yards, yet all those people who carry an 8+1 9MM Shield are effectively assessing their threat environment. I'm not an LEO and I live in a low-crime safe suburb where realistically I am the only one with a pistol on their person at any given moment.

More drills with a timer are in order, but I'll admit I'm still seriously considering the 1911 and am getting more comfortable with the idea that a 1911 will work just fine for me as a primary CCW.



P.S. I also wanted to add that I am only considering hammer fired guns with manual safeties, so that limits what I am comparing the 1911 to for a carry weapon. Striker fired pistols without a manual safety are a no-go for me for AIWB carry. If HK ever releases the VP-9 with a manual safety, I'd probably be all over it.

[Hunter Rose]

A 1911 was the first pistol I shot, the first pistol I purchased, the first handgun I qualified on in the military--they were great tools, much like the 1991 Caprice Classic, Motorola Flip Phone, and Apple Lisa I also used to use....

Now I have less expensive, easier to service, more versatile tools available to me in the 21st Century....


Yet a Stradivarius still plays the sweetest music even 300 years after it was built...

...and dead Nazis!

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

[45dotACP]

Hmmm...why a 1911 these days.

Heh, some of y'all have never fired a 5" 1911 in 9mm and it shows ;)

A 45 is a little slower/less accurate for me, but even according to USPSA it is still the gun I shoot best.

According to my own testing (which consists of USPSA classifiers and Gabe White's standards) I can shoot a 9mm 1911 better than any other gun I own due to how flat it tracks, how soft the recoil impulse is with duty ammo (which it feeds, fires and extracts perfectly), how easy the trigger is to manipulate and the best mechanical accuracy of any defensive semi auto handgun.

It's literally a cheat codes gun. And if I need to defend my life, then cheat codes it is.

This is all with the proviso that you know what it takes to get the gun to run, which basically boils down to owning a few tools and being a bit of a gear queer.

But honestly, who here isn't a bit of a gear queer?

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Hambo]

A 1911 was the first pistol I shot, the first pistol I purchased, the first handgun I qualified on in the military--they were great tools, much like the 1991 Caprice Classic, Motorola Flip Phone, and Apple Lisa I also used to use....

Now I have less expensive, easier to service, more versatile tools available to me in the 21st Century....

Apple Lisa...was she a dancer at...nevermind.


I'll be honest, I also have a hard time reconciling the fact that I'm somehow underarmed or making a poor choice with an 8+1 .45 ACP that I can confidently hit with out to 25 yards, yet all those people who carry an 8+1 9MM Shield are effectively assessing their threat environment. I'm not an LEO and I live in a low-crime safe suburb where realistically I am the only one with a pistol on their person at any given moment.


Let me help you out: just do it. I'd have no qualms carrying a LW Commander in .45, and I'd definitely carry one in preference to a Shield. In fact, I might prefer it to my tuned up version of the Beretta I bought in 1988. Except that Ernest Langdon carries one so I'm a #LudditeCoolKid (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=LudditeCoolKid) for the time being. :cool:

#LifeWasBetterInThe90s (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=LifeWasBetterInThe90s) #My457PlanMadeMore$InThe90s #KenHackathornStillCarriesA1911 (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=KenHackathornStillCarriesA1911) ;)

[ralph]

I've been reading this thread with a little bit of interest. I have exactly one 1911, a original 70 series Gov't model Colt, made in 1976, it still has the collet barrel bushing..I got it in a trade. It's about as plain-jane as you can get.. Anyway, I've toyed with the idea of buying a 1911, something like a Dan Wesson ECP, but then I get bitch slapped by reality.. Not to mention the $$$, $1600 for a carry gun is a bit hard for me to justify, when my $500 CZ P07 does just fine.. If I want to carry a .45, well, I've got two more that'll work without any mods needed..A HK USPc in light LEM, (traded a Glock G19 for it) and a HK 45CT, in TDA, Either one is good to go. The only complaint I have is with the 45ct, I just wish someone made a lower weight hammer spring for it, as it is the DA trigger pull is at least 10lbs, maybe more, if this thing had an 8lb DA trigger pull, it would be fantastic.. All I can say to anyone who wants to carry a 1911, go for it, as long as you understand the 1911's shortcomings, and are prepared to do little things like fit an extractor yourself, and you understand that "drop-in" parts often don't, and, that the .45acp isn't the hammer of Thor, then, like I said, go for it.. After all, you're carrying it, not me.

[Whirlwind06]

So what is base level for a carry 1911?
Is colt lw comander a good base to start from?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[45dotACP]

If running a .45 I'd strongly advise against anything smaller than a Commander. 9mm 1911s can be made to work well in almost any frame size, and .45s are best in government frames.

I'd consider absolute rock bottom on a carry 1911 to be a Ruger SR1911 in terms of price. You get a pretty good gun with a Ruger. After that I'd say the usual suspects. Colt, Springfield, Dan Wesson, STI.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Robinson]

Is colt lw comander a good base to start from?

It can be. I carry a Colt Lightweight Commander 9mm, and my main practice gun is an all steel Colt Commander 9mm. I've come to like carrying and shooting Commander size guns over full size Government models, though I used to carry one of those.

A Lightweight Commander with its aluminum alloy frame, is (for me) a gun to carry a lot and shoot just enough to prove its reliability. I do most of my shooting with my steel training gun. But honestly, with good alloys these days even a Lightweight Commander will last through a lot of rounds -- especially if it's a 9mm.

Colt's obviously not the only game in town, but I've had real good luck with my 9mm Commanders. The 45s are just as good or better.

[JAD]

So what is base level for a carry 1911?
Is colt lw comander a good base to start from?

Lots of people, myself sometimes included, carry the full steel GM. The LWC though, at least for me, is the perfect balance of shootability and concealability. I think I actually prefer them in .45. Or Super.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/2a7719bc3bafae6818d3a288b2cc636f.jpg

I am also starting to think there’s no real difference in concealment between my G43 and my CCO.

[theJanitor]

Lots of people, myself sometimes included, carry the full steel GM. The LWC though, at least for me, is the perfect balance of shootability and concealability.

After 20+ years with the government model, I’m moving toward this conclusion.

[Inkwell 41]

My son is finishing up this.... Caspian slide and frame (steel) and a mix of Wilson, EGW and 10-8 parts. It's got 10-8 sights on it now. First 9mm 1911 that I've shot and it is very nice. I might need him to build a copy with an aluminum frame, for me.

[SW CQB 45]

We were not allowed to carry 1911 on duty until Admin and policy changes in 2008.

I carried this guy on duty till around 2012.

https://i.imgur.com/xQdJHyhl.jpg

Alot of holster draws, 12K+ down the tube (training classes, qualifications, competition and general range use)

Here it is today.... still comes out for range use and occasional dress ceremonies
https://i.imgur.com/iVo7eW5l.jpg

I moved to a desk driving assignment in 2012 and wanted to be comfortable....so I carried an issued Gen3 G19.

Almost 30 years in carrying a piece almost daily...I have stepped down in weight (not me... my 1911 carry guns)

I gave the G5 G17 back....and going to focus on these alloy guys for duty carry. Why.... nothing wrong with it. I hope to be issued a G19 or G45 next year and will take that as a retirement gift to myself when I make that decision. Not in the play books to retire at this time.

Current carry is DW Valkyrie Commander in Nina and recent purchase was a used in decent condition- Springer Champ OP in .45.

Still working on the .45.... it was shooting 8" high at 25 yards.....I have made some sight height changes and believe I got it close to POA/POI but still need to test more.

My biggest issue is finding suitable holsters for dept carry as policy says Level 3 for duty and Level 1 for plain clothes.

I have an order out with Garrity on two thumb break holsters (holding my breath) and since Safariland does not make any modern duty holsters for Commander length 1911s... I am stuck with modifying 5" holsters or dealing with extra holster length.

I prefer Commander length because I have very long arms (39" sleeve length) and drawing a 5" out of a duty holster requires me to make odd movements to clear "leather". plus being a big guy the drop holsters dont do well with car seats or seating comfort.

My current duty carry... eventually the .45 will be approved for duty carry. The .45 kicks like a mule compared to the 9mm. My wrists yell at me when shooting the .45. :p

https://i.imgur.com/sPB88E7l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MryFf62l.jpg

[entropy]

Garrity still making gear? I’ve got a few pieces from him. Not the speediest, but really nice stuff.

[03RN]

Lots of people, myself sometimes included, carry the full steel GM. The LWC though, at least for me, is the perfect balance of shootability and concealability. I think I actually prefer them in .45. Or Super.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/2a7719bc3bafae6818d3a288b2cc636f.jpg

I am also starting to think there’s no real difference in concealment between my G43 and my CCO.

I'm definitely tempted by LWC but I have a hard time leaving full sized guns.
37681

I think about it when I tie my boots.

https://youtu.be/8AF8Q6Gtkv8

[358156hp]

And I thought I was the last guy left still shooting index cards. Nicely done!

[SW CQB 45]

Garrity still making gear? I’ve got a few pieces from him. Not the speediest, but really nice stuff.

He is the only one I could find that makes leather with a thumb break that was decent. I found one more yesterday but at almost twice the price and longer wait.

[MGW]

Lots of people, myself sometimes included, carry the full steel GM. The LWC though, at least for me, is the perfect balance of shootability and concealability. I think I actually prefer them in .45. Or Super.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/2a7719bc3bafae6818d3a288b2cc636f.jpg

I am also starting to think there’s no real difference in concealment between my G43 and my CCO.

Tell me more about this pistol. Who built it? I like the tree bark checkering. Reminds me of something Nighthawk does.

[entropy]

He is the only one I could find that makes leather with a thumb break that was decent. I found one more yesterday but at almost twice the price and longer wait.

Just checked his site. Sure enough! He made a very nice In-discernable with a thumbreak for my USPc a number of years back. It’s held up well, and works great. He also made me the same (without thumbreak) for a Commander size SA. Shark trim on that one. Also some belts and mag pouches. I will post some pics tomorrow if you want to see. Like I said, he has a rep for exceptional work, abeit a bit slow.

Have you contacted Wes at Privateer Leather? I bet he could do the same for you and his turn time might be quicker. Both guys are gentlemen and craftsmen.

[JAD]

Tell me more about this pistol. Who built it? I like the tree bark checkering. Reminds me of something Nighthawk does.

Oh, no, I just couldn’t bear to talk about my guns, faith, children, or opinion about the Oxford comma.

That is a .45 1968 LWC that Steve Morrisson at Mars Armament modified. It has a Kart match barrel and bushing, hardball rear with tritium front serrated no vial, and is ‘matted’ (Steve’s term, I’d say stippled) on the front strap and mainspring housing. It wears Steve’s awesome oxide blue on the slide and titanium-colored paint on the frame. Those are the original walnut Colt panels.

A LWC without a beaver tail will beat you like a rented mule, so there are other LWCs i shoot more, but I have a lot of LWCs and that is how I wanted that one to be.

[MGW]

Oh, no, I just couldn’t bear to talk about my guns, faith, children, or opinion about the Oxford comma.

That is a .45 1968 LWC that Steve Morrisson at Mars Armament modified. It has a Kart match barrel and bushing, hardball rear with tritium front serrated no vial, and is ‘matted’ (Steve’s term, I’d say stippled) on the front strap and mainspring housing. It wears Steve’s awesome oxide blue on the slide and titanium-colored paint on the frame. Those are the original walnut Colt panels.

A LWC without a beaver tail will beat you like a rented mule, so there are other LWCs i shoot more, but I have a lot of LWCs and that is how I wanted that one to be.

It’s a beautiful pistol JAD. Lots of nice subtle details.

[M2CattleCo]

I am also starting to think there’s no real difference in concealment between my G43 and my CCO.

Carried IWB I came to same conclusion.

My lightweight government only prints a little more in certain situations and actually rides IWB more comfortably so the CCO got sold since it won't ride in a boot like the G43.


The G43 is still the Glocks that impresses me the most.

[Gary1911A1]

Davis still makes thumb breaks for the 1911. http://davisleathercompany.com

[Dave T]

Arthritis has swollen the base knuckle of my shooting hand thumb and the frame of any 1911 impinges on it bad. I find the wider, plastic frame of the 45 ACP Glocks does not beat that knuckle up and I can shoot more than a couple magazines without pain.

If it weren't for the above health problem I would still be carrying some model of 1911, as I did throughout my LEO career and for 15 years after retiring. I just shoot the 1911 better than any other pistol. The Glocks are a compromise, forced on me by my aging body parts. (smile)

Dave

[vcdgrips]

Dave T-

Perhaps a S&W M&P .45 with the frame mounted safety and Apex FSS trigger bits could be better on the knuckle while still yielding a more 1911 like trigger v. a Glock.

FWIW,

DB

[03RN]

And I thought I was the last guy left still shooting index cards. Nicely done!

Exactly the same size as the average human heart.

Thank you

[KP]

You already are more than well aware of the 911's pros and cons and you also know H&K's benefits and detriments. 911s are over 100 years old and have a solid reputation. They require more maintenance but that it isn't a problem for you. Every man lives with his own decisions. Carry and shoot whatever works well for you. The only thing I can add is that you might want to consider carrying a striker fire handgun as a backup - just in case of a 1911 malfunction and/or you need to do a New York reload :-). Maintain your health and stay safe. Best regards. KP

[Tango]

Good luck with your decision. I carry a G17 because the 1911 is not curreny on the approved carry list. If it was, I would add the 1911 in a hearbeat. 1911 for certain applications, G17 for other.

[M2CattleCo]

You already are more than well aware of the 911's pros and cons and you also know H&K's benefits and detriments. 911s are over 100 years old and have a solid reputation. They require more maintenance but that it isn't a problem for you. Every man lives with his own decisions. Carry and shoot whatever works well for you. The only thing I can add is that you might want to consider carrying a striker fire handgun as a backup - just in case of a 1911 malfunction and/or you need to do a New York reload :-). Maintain your health and stay safe. Best regards. KP

Thinking any striker fired handgun is as reliable, durable, and less maintenance as the quality of 1911 OP has is laughable.

[Amp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpuajszpwSA

[KP]

Thinking any striker fired handgun is as reliable, durable, and less maintenance as the quality of 1911 OP has is laughable.


Each person has to makes their own decision. Perhaps it may seem strange to you, but the late and great Louis Awerbuck always talked about carrying a secondary. His secondary started with .38 through Springfield DX and then Glock 26. I am not the only one who has thought about a striker fire handgun as a secondary backup gun.

Don't you love the sound
Of the last laugh at the end

[M2CattleCo]

Right, but you made it sound like it was based on reliability shortcomings of the 1911 he was carrying as a primary.

[JonInWA]

For me, no, going to a 1911 for regular EDC and/or duty is not a good option. Look, I like and appreciate my 1911s, and we have 3 of them, all of them vetted for reliability, both intrinsically and magazine-wise.

Compared to other options (primarily, in my specific case, HK, Beretta and Glock), a 1911 shoots magnificently (except in my case, I shoot better with my other options), they're relatively heavy (and in my case, because I only prefer the steel receiver variants), are very lubrication intensive, have some areas of inherent architectural weakness (e.g., staked plunger tubes loosing their staking, etc). They're also generally less weather impervious, and are dependent in most models on a grip safety that can present some de-activation issues when using (especially when switching to a 1911 from a broader/double-stack pistol).

Given their action and minimal trigger movement requisite to fire the weapon, to me they're a dicey, potentially problem-laden threat management weapon-I personally prefer my DAO LEM V 1.5 HK P30l or my DAO Beretta 92D.

A LEM or DAO is also inherently easier and safer to holster, either during the scenario encounter, or administratively.

Best, Jon

[03RN]

Each person has to makes their own decision. Perhaps it may seem strange to you, but the late and great Louis Awerbuck always talked about carrying a secondary. His secondary started with .38 through Springfield DX and then Glock 26. I am not the only one who has thought about a striker fire handgun as a secondary backup gun.

Don't you love the sound
Of the last laugh at the end

I think your unaware of the why.

If you think it has to do with a last laugh, or it being because of it being striker fired then you are missing the point.

[03RN]

For me, no, going to a 1911 for regular EDC and/or duty is not a good option. Look, I like and appreciate my 1911s, and we have 3 of them, all of them vetted for reliability, both intrinsically and magazine-wise.

Compared to other options (primarily, in my specific case, HK, Beretta and Glock), a 1911 shoots magnificently (except in my case, I shoot better with my other options), they're relatively heavy (and in my case, because I only prefer the steel receiver variants), are very lubrication intensive, have some areas of inherent architectural weakness (e.g., staked plunger tubes loosing their staking, etc). They're also generally less weather impervious, and are dependent in most models on a grip safety that can present some de-activation issues when using (especially when switching to a 1911 from a broader/double-stack pistol).

Given their action and minimal trigger movement requisite to fire the weapon, to me they're a dicey, potentially problem-laden threat management weapon-I personally prefer my DAO LEM V 1.5 HK P30l or my DAO Beretta 92D.

A LEM or DAO is also inherently easier and safer to holster, either during the scenario encounter, or administratively.

Best, Jon

Fwiw I've used my 1911s to good effect after being fully submerged in salt water, fresh water, and long days in the rain. I have no hesitation to carry a 1911 in any weather or clime.

I also feel pretty good carrying aiwb having a thumb safety and a hammer.

A good grip safety should need very little pressure to deactivate

[TheNewbie]

Fwiw I've used my 1911s to good effect after being fully submerged in salt water, fresh water, and long days in the rain. I have no hesitation to carry a 1911 in any weather or clime.

I also feel pretty good carrying aiwb having a thumb safety and a hammer.

A good grip safety should need very little pressure to deactivate



Though it has a short trigger, if I were to AIWB, I would feel most comfortable with a 1911. Even if I forgot to engage the TS, if I "thumb the hammer", it would get my hand of the grip safety.

[Corse]

Though it has a short trigger, if I were to AIWB, I would feel most comfortable with a 1911. Even if I forgot to engage the TS, if I "thumb the hammer", it would get my hand of the grip safety.

Over the past few weeks I have been doing some training with 1911s and I feel the grip safety provides a large safety margin during the reholster.

[KevH]

For me, no, going to a 1911 for regular EDC and/or duty is not a good option. Look, I like and appreciate my 1911s, and we have 3 of them, all of them vetted for reliability, both intrinsically and magazine-wise.

Compared to other options (primarily, in my specific case, HK, Beretta and Glock), a 1911 shoots magnificently (except in my case, I shoot better with my other options), they're relatively heavy (and in my case, because I only prefer the steel receiver variants), are very lubrication intensive, have some areas of inherent architectural weakness (e.g., staked plunger tubes loosing their staking, etc). They're also generally less weather impervious, and are dependent in most models on a grip safety that can present some de-activation issues when using (especially when switching to a 1911 from a broader/double-stack pistol).

Given their action and minimal trigger movement requisite to fire the weapon, to me they're a dicey, potentially problem-laden threat management weapon-I personally prefer my DAO LEM V 1.5 HK P30l or my DAO Beretta 92D.

A LEM or DAO is also inherently easier and safer to holster, either during the scenario encounter, or administratively.

Best, Jon

It all depends upon how they're built to begin with. If they're made out of quality parts and assembled, fitted, and then tuned by a master of the platform they'll run with very little lube and damn near run forever. There are tricks guys know (I'm talking Berryhill (RIP), Chuck Rogers, Jardine, Bob Rodgers, Ned C, Mike Allen and company) to make these guns run under the worst of circumstances and abuse.

My Jardine Colt in the previous posts will run no matter what I do to it and would probably feed and eject rocks if I crammed them in the magazine. I've shot it in downpours and covered in dust and it doesn't hiccup.

I have a Kimber Custom Classic (pre-Series II) a celebrated-at-the-time "gunsmith" (I use the term loosely) setup for me that would run for around 400 rounds in a class and then start having feeding issues. All the parts on the gun were high quality, the parts seemed fitted perfect and the gun looked great in photos and felt great in the hand. I figured it was lube or something else. I spoke to Dave Berryhill and he told me to send the gun to him. He went through it found the cause (an interaction between the slide stop, barrel lugs, and frame) and fixed it. He also made a few other changes for me. I went the week after I got it back and put 2500 rounds through it in day and a half. Not a single malfunction...not one. In 2019, there are lots of folks that build pretty guns and lots of folks that make high quality parts. There are very few that truly understand what makes these gun work and work well.

The gun has not failed me once ever since. With a 1911-platform gun it's all about how it was put together.

[KP]

I think your unaware of the why.

If you think it has to do with a last laugh, or it being because of it being striker fired then you are missing the point.

I am well aware of the reasoning for Awerbuck's use of the secondary. He kept a Colt, a Hi Powered Browning or a double stack 45 as his primary pistol - his primary didn't change. The secondary changed depending upon circumstances and depending upon circumstances the striker fire Springfield DX and Glock 26 were considered acceptable to be included among others. Awerbuck didn't exclude striker fired handguns as a secondary backup.

[JTQ]

He is the only one I could find that makes leather with a thumb break that was decent. I found one more yesterday but at almost twice the price and longer wait.
I believe Andrews Custom Leather offers a thumb break on most of their models - one of the few that offers them on IWB holsters.

http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm

[theJanitor]

Sam has been my go-to holster guy for years. He does make an effective thumb break, but it's a little thick at the mouth area for my taste. He adds the material needed for the break, to the mouth and it bulks up.

I had it for a g34, so maybe it'll be way thinner for a 1911

[KevH]

I believe Andrews Custom Leather offers a thumb break on most of their models - one of the few that offers them on IWB holsters.

http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm

Rusty Sherrick's SIS is a fantastic thumb break.

[theJanitor]

Sam has been my go-to holster guy for years. He does make an effective thumb break, but it's a little thick at the mouth area for my taste. He adds the material needed for the break, to the mouth and it bulks up.

I had it for a g34, so maybe it'll be way thinner for a 1911

To clarify, I was talking about the McDaniel2 model

[Gun Mutt]

...the late and great Louis Awerbuck always talked about carrying a secondary. His secondary started with .38 through Springfield DX and then Glock 26...

Actually, it was a G19 that Robar did a chop and reduction on with a dog tag inset in the grip.
I got to shoot it after one of my classes with him. "Who's Lucky?" I asked. "My very last dog," he replied.
I still miss Louie, he was my very favorite teacher of any subject I've ever studied.

[KP]

Actually, it was a G19 that Robar did a chop and reduction on with a dog tag inset in the grip.
I got to shoot it after one of my classes with him. "Who's Lucky?" I asked. "My very last dog," he replied.
I still miss Louie, he was my very favorite teacher of any subject I've ever studied.

I really would have a privilege for me to have had Louie as an instructor but I took up shooting late in life after he had gone. However, I was fortunate to have Randy Cain as an instructor who had worked with Louie. Randy will bring up things about Louie during his classes. BTW, Randy is also an excellent instructor. I highly recommend him.

[shane45]

As much as I want an EDC X9, I do wonder what running a P01 Omega C&L would be like. Anyone?

[JonInWA]

Fwiw I've used my 1911s to good effect after being fully submerged in salt water, fresh water, and long days in the rain. I have no hesitation to carry a 1911 in any weather or clime.

I also feel pretty good carrying aiwb having a thumb safety and a hammer.

A good grip safety should need very little pressure to deactivate

All points fair (and true) enough. And I'll grant that performing a detailed disassembly as necessary on a 1911 in case of media intrusion into the innards is easier that performing such on a Beretta 92 or HK. Still, the very short triggerpull distance is still a concern for threat management scenarios; that plus the weight would continue to be my major concerns (capacity actually isn't).

Best, Jon

[03RN]

All points fair (and true) enough. And I'll grant that performing a detailed disassembly as necessary on a 1911 in case of media intrusion into the innards is easier that performing such on a Beretta 92 or HK. Still, the very short triggerpull distance is still a concern for threat management scenarios; that plus the weight would continue to be my major concerns (capacity actually isn't).

Best, Jon

No arguments there. I had to draw a couple weeks ago in the middle of three big dogs snapping, my wife, dog, and 9 month old son.

I had my M64 with me and felt the trigger and even took up a little slack but was able to handle the situation with a few swift kicks and some very loud harsh words.

I'm very comfortable with 1911s but am not sure what I would have done with my 1911s in terms of safety and trigger.

None of my 1911s have super light triggers but they are very good.

[farscott]

He is the only one I could find that makes leather with a thumb break that was decent. I found one more yesterday but at almost twice the price and longer wait.

The only decent maker that I am familiar with that offers a thumb break as an option for LE is Mitch Rosen. It is pricey leather, but the wait is down to ten to twelve weeks.

[Robinson]

No arguments there. I had to draw a couple weeks ago in the middle of three big dogs snapping, my wife, dog, and 9 month old son.

I had my M64 with me and felt the trigger and even took up a little slack but was able to handle the situation with a few swift kicks and some very loud harsh words.

I'm very comfortable with 1911s but am not sure what I would have done with my 1911s in terms of safety and trigger.

None of my 1911s have super light triggers but they are very good.

This is why I've decided if I were ever to switch from the 1911 to a DA pistol it would be a complete change-over. Going back and forth between them is pretty much a no-go for me because of the trigger management differences.

With a 1911, my thought process is that if I put pressure on the trigger I've already decided to fire and the safety has come off. Proper use of the thumb safety is an essential part of a 1911's use. I know you already know all of this, but I think it's a good discussion.

And with a Glock (or other striker fired gun with a relatively light trigger and no safety) the margin of error when getting on the trigger really isn't much greater than with a 1911. I briefly owned a Gen 5 Glock with a trigger that was really too light for a defensive gun with no safety.

[JonInWA]

I totally agree with you on the risks of going back and forth between a 1911 and other platforms; I had an epiphany moment in an IDPA match several years ago, when, after a protracted time of using and carrying a doublestack semi-auto (probably Glocks, but my memory is hazy), I switched to a 1911. While I had done some dryfiring with the 1911 in transition/preparation beforehand, it obviously wasn't enough to overcome established muscle memory; at my first shot on my first stage with the 1911, I drew, aimed, pressed the trigger-and nothing happened. I realized that my firing hand was still instinctively positioning itself as if the 1911 was the previous gun, and the grip safety wasn't sufficiently depressed. Quickly diagnosed and solved, but a great eye-opener.

Best, Jon

[JHC]

No arguments there. I had to draw a couple weeks ago in the middle of three big dogs snapping, my wife, dog, and 9 month old son.

I had my M64 with me and felt the trigger and even took up a little slack but was able to handle the situation with a few swift kicks and some very loud harsh words.

I'm very comfortable with 1911s but am not sure what I would have done with my 1911s in terms of safety and trigger.

None of my 1911s have super light triggers but they are very good.

I bet you'd have left the safety on when you weren't shooting. Like if you were wielding an AR carbine.

[ralph]

Got to handle Dan Wesson TCP in 9mm today at my LGS...very impressed, price was, all things considered, reasonable at $1500. I could'nt make up my mind,if I bought one of these, .45 or 9mm... 9mm has more mag capacity, but .45 is more traditional..I load for both so, ammo to practice with would be a wash..

[MattyD380]

The TCP looks cool. I like cuts/contours on the slide.

I’ve kinda been eyeing the Pointman Carry—CCO pattern. Love the minimalist stainless aesthetic. But yeah... not sure if I’d want 9mm or 45.

[Inkwell 41]

My sons new carry gun.37859

Home Parkerizing using Brownells kit.

[45dotACP]

I made the mistake of renting a RRA poly 1911 today.

Initial opinions from me are favorable. It combines the best parts of 1911s and polymer guns. I found recoil to be noticeably easier to manage than with the same ammunition through a steel framed gun. I didn't think it would be, because it's considerably lighter, but it was, possibly owing to the slightly thicker grip which dissipates recoil, or perhaps because the polymer frame offers more flex during the recoil cycle.

Gonna be buying thicker grips for the current .45 while pondering. Perhaps a thicker grip is better for my recoil control.

As a RRA it was also stupidly accurate.

I'm super ghey for 1911s but I feel like RRA has something unique. I'll be buying one as soon as funds permit to further evaluate. On shooting characteristics alone I was impressed. And I'm not easily impressed.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[RAM Engineer]

No. Just like I'm not seriously considering selling my car and riding a horse to work either...

[03RN]

No. Just like I'm not seriously considering selling my car and riding a horse to work either...

I'd trade both our cars, all our amenities, and my nursing license for a couple horses and a cabin in the woods with acreage.

[Totem Polar]

I'd trade both our cars, all our amenities, and my nursing license for a couple horses and a cabin in the woods with acreage.

Sounds like maybe you should.

:cool:

[Joe in PNG]

Maybe not so much a horse as it's a '49 Fordallac Coupe.

[03RN]

Sounds like maybe you should.

:cool:

Married:(

[JAD]

Maybe not so much a horse as it's a '49 Fordallac Coupe.

Dude, Glock is a Civic and the 1911 is /totally/ a bitchin’ Camaro.
https://youtu.be/1v3CzvQ9e_w

[M2CattleCo]

No. Just like I'm not seriously considering selling my car and riding a horse to work either...

Carrying a Glock is like driving a car with a busted windshield and four flat tires.

'But it's a Camry...'

[Hunter Rose]

Ok, after three range trips and a lot of thought, I think I am going to do this and go 1911...at least for a year.

My MARS gun is running great, and the only real issue I see and have still not completely come to terms with is capacity. I'll just keep reminding myself that I'll have two more rounds than everyone carrying a Glock 43...and they're two extra rounds of .45 ACP aka Thor's Hammer!

[theJanitor]

I'm back to a 1911, while I work out a few issues with my EDC X9. The pistol is great, my performance, not so much

[JHC]

Ok, after three range trips and a lot of thought, I think I am going to do this and go 1911...at least for a year.

My MARS gun is running great, and the only real issue I see and have still not completely come to terms with is capacity. I'll just keep reminding myself that I'll have two more rounds than everyone carrying a Glock 43...and they're two extra rounds of .45 ACP aka Thor's Hammer!

Plus read all the threads arguing for "good enough" - mostly re J frames. :D Which are awesome guns too.

[JonInWA]

Carrying a Glock is like driving a car with a busted windshield and four flat tires.

'But it's a Camry...'

Hmmm...or, conversely, you could consider a Glock to be the equivalent of the mule you use day in and day out, both for farming and as a packhorse; and a 1911 to be a ridiculously pedigreed (and correspondingly expensive) Arabian racehorse to be used only in select venues and environments...

Best, Jon

[M2CattleCo]

My Wilsons are more like a Mule than the Gen 4&5 Glocks I tried two years ago.

I'm almost 5 cases of ammo past where the Glocks started having trouble and I haven't even cleaned or changed a spring on the 1911.

It's a tired topic debated mostly by people with no experience of one side.

[LockedBreech]

My Wilsons are more like a Mule than the Gen 4&5 Glocks I tried two years ago.

I'm almost 5 cases of ammo past where the Glocks started having trouble and I haven't even cleaned or changed a spring on the 1911.

It's a tired topic debated mostly by people with no experience of one side.

My one and only 1911, a Colt Government 5" stainless in .45, just passed the 1500 round mark without error using both ball ammo and HST. It has never been cleaned or lubricated since purchase in 2016 (I know, it's a sin and I'l break soon, was just curious to see how long it would go). Zero stoppages thus far. That beats both my formerly owned Sig P226 .40 and my Smith & Wesson Gen1 M&P40 using a .357 Sig barrel having stoppages in the first 50 rounds.

While I still carry an M2.0 Shield and M2.0 Compact, this experience did make me seriously re-think the viability of a good 1911.

[RevolverRob]

Given what a By-God all steel Government Model in .45 weighs when loaded, I would think Clydesdale would be the appropriate comparison.

[theJanitor]

A well built 1911 only has three drawbacks, to me, for domestic CCW. Cost, capacity, and weight.

"well built" is kinda key though.

I look at my gen3 glocks (and the required 10rd mags) with a bit of skepticism, and I see the debacle that was the 320, and shitty QC from S&W revos, etc., etc. Then I look at my colts, and just feel happy that I've not been chasing some handgun grail.

[M2CattleCo]

Given what a By-God all steel Government Model in .45 weighs when loaded, I would think Clydesdale would be the appropriate comparison.

https://pics.me.me/youre-goddamn-right-14369672.png

[Gun Mutt]

My sons new carry gun.37859
Home Parkerizing using Brownells kit.

Good looking pistol...what is it?

[TheNewbie]

At times I want the following:

Colt 1991A1

Colt LW commander in 9mm.

[shane45]

Something that caught my eye. I think the pistol is ugly as hell, but it feels nice. But if I look at criteria I desire, it fits. The APX RDO has my interest. Why? Reliable. Capacity. Good trigger. Optics ready. AND it appears you can add a manual thumb safety. So basically keeping very similar controls to my 1911's at 1/4 the cost.

[Archer1440]

No. Just like I'm not seriously considering selling my car and riding a horse to work either...

A silly analogy. This would be akin to trading a pistol for a slingshot.

Trading a Glock for a well-made 1911 is more like trading a Honda Element for a Bentley.

[Robinson]

At times I want the following:

Colt 1991A1

Colt LW commander in 9mm.

I currently own one of each. :)

[TheNewbie]

I currently own one of each. :)

Have you modified or tweaked them?

[Robinson]

Have you modified or tweaked them?

I put different grip panels and an arched main spring housing on the Lwt Cmdr and did a little tuning on both safeties on both guns to get them to my liking. That's about it.

[Joe in PNG]

Due to a few things*, I'm now looking at a Colt WC Lightweight Commander.
Plan is still to shoot it lots and lots, and if generally reliable, to carry it.

*Partially because a DW Guardian is more than I want to spend right now, and honestly, I would really like a Colt. Matches my 1903, 1908, and 6920.

[revchuck38]

A silly analogy. This would be akin to trading a pistol for a slingshot.

Trading a Glock for a well-made 1911 is more like trading a Honda Element for a Bentley.

Cost-effectiveness is about equivalent too. :)

[JHC]

Due to a few things*, I'm now looking at a Colt WC Lightweight Commander.
Plan is still to shoot it lots and lots, and if generally reliable, to carry it.

*Partially because a DW Guardian is more than I want to spend right now, and honestly, I would really like a Colt. Matches my 1903, 1908, and 6920.

The Colt roll mark pulls me to a LW Commander and about a grand worth of perfecting by a legit smith.

[Archer1440]

Cost-effectiveness is about equivalent too. :)

My analogy was intentional. I did include the modifier "well-made", in reference to the 1911, after all.

[45dotACP]

The Colt roll mark pulls me to a LW Commander and about a grand worth of perfecting by a legit smith.Dooooo it!

Or don't...If you post up another gun worked over by Dave Sams I run the risk of profound financial irresponsibility.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[theJanitor]

Due to a few things*, I'm now looking at a Colt WC Lightweight Commander.


Mine has been great. I made a few simple mods: NH flatwire spring and barrel bushing, thumb safety and trigger from my parts bin

[JonInWA]

This thread (probably dangerously) had me pulling my Colt Series 70 stainless Repro and SIG 2nd generation GSR out of the vault, and going through some dryfire exercises with them. Yes, they exert a siren song, and are exceptionally rewarding.

So where do I stand with them (and this thread has developed some excellent points in their favor):

-That the 1911 is a complex balance between various springs (particularly recoil and magazine), cartridge travel angles, and some potentially fragile components (e.g., the plunger tube). They can require finesse (or a skilled gunsmith) to properly set up and maintain-Hilton Yam published a very detailed parts maintenance and replacement roadmap which is still much on point. They're simply not a "plug and play" instrument, at least if you want to use them to their potential and minimize failures or accelerated wear to components. If you're a serious user of the platform, you really need to stay on top of it, and that requires some good record-keeping to track maintenance milestones and fulfillment.

-Getting everything "right" with a 1911 seemingly can be as much as an art as a science; that's part of the concurrent challenge and charm to the platform, but today there are simply less expensive and more durable (and probably more reliable, particularly in the long run), requiring less maintenance (both operator and higher echelon/gunsmith/factory) polymer-frame platforms.

-Despite huge improvements in 9mm 1911s and magazines, I still think that the 1911 primarily excels around the cartridge it was designed and devolves around-the .45 ACP cartridge. If you like .45 ACP, great, but there are some downsides, such as weight and recoil that can take a toll, particularly on the shooter. 9mm is simply easier to shoot, weighs less, costs less per cartridge, and arguably today has equal, if not superior terminal performance. So in my mind, I can go with a 1911 in 9mm, and be somewhat of a beta tester or I can go with another more contemporary (and probably polymer-frame) platform...

A 1911 is a superb shooting gun, but not necessarily so great as a threat-management gun. I currently need both, and my needs are currently better filled by my HK, Beretta and Glock platforms. But that doesn't mean that my 1911s don't get taken out, appreciated, and driven-but for a fairly limited timeframe in my shooting year.

Best, Jon

[RevolverRob]

I think the "art" of setting up a 1911 is discerning fact from fiction with regard to advice on how to set the gun up. Beyond that, the only additional steps in maintaining a 1911, in my experience are -

1) Checking to make sure the grip screws haven't worked loose (necessary for anything with screw on grips)
2) Checking extractor tension once about every 5000 rounds or so.

You can tighten grip screws (properly specc'ed slotted ones) with the rim of a .45 ACP case. And you can adjust extractor tension in a field expedient manner, by turning the extractor around in the hole and bending it slightly, using your thumb and a .45 ACP case slipped over the end.

[Inkwell 41]

Good looking pistol...what is it?

Caspian slide and frame with a mixture of EGW, 10-8 and Wilson Combat parts.

It's a 9MM.

[45dotACP]

Caspian slide and frame with a mixture of EGW, 10-8 and Wilson Combat parts.

It's a 9MM.That's a nice looking pistol. I like the ring hammer and those vertical serrations and light rail just do it for me.

Not that I'm thinking of doing something similar or anything (heh)...but did you use a ramped barrel or a two piece setup?

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Inkwell 41]

That's a nice looking pistol. I like the ring hammer and those vertical serrations and light rail just do it for me.

Not that I'm thinking of doing something similar or anything (heh)...but did you use a ramped barrel or a two piece setup?

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
My kid built it. I say kid, he's in his mid-twenties. He used a Wilson Combat barrel with integral ramp. The frame was ordered cut for a Wilson ramp.
He had to tweak a few things after it first came together. Since then, it's eaten everything it been fed from ball to JHPs in 115, 124 and 147 weights. And it's quite accurate.
I very much like the classic touches with the ring hammer and straight serrations, too.

I'd like a clone of it, except with an aluminum frame.

[JHC]

I think the "art" of setting up a 1911 is discerning fact from fiction with regard to advice on how to set the gun up. Beyond that, the only additional steps in maintaining a 1911, in my experience are -

1) Checking to make sure the grip screws haven't worked loose (necessary for anything with screw on grips)
2) Checking extractor tension once about every 5000 rounds or so.

You can tighten grip screws (properly specc'ed slotted ones) with the rim of a .45 ACP case. And you can adjust extractor tension in a field expedient manner, by turning the extractor around in the hole and bending it slightly, using your thumb and a .45 ACP case slipped over the end.


To that list, for myself I have to add keeping a couple extra recoil spring plugs around. There a couple out there somewhere in the yard.

[serialsolver]

A well built 1911 only has three drawbacks, to me, for domestic CCW. Cost, capacity, and weight.

"well built" is kinda key though.

I look at my gen3 glocks (and the required 10rd mags) with a bit of skepticism, and I see the debacle that was the 320, and shitty QC from S&W revos, etc., etc. Then I look at my colts, and just feel happy that I've not been chasing some handgun grail.

Ya know, (and you probably do know) there’s well built alloy frame 5 inch 1911’s.

My loaded alloy 5 inch 1911 is 4 oz heavier than a loaded glock 17.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JHC]

Ya know, (and you probably do know) there’s well built alloy frame 5 inch 1911’s.

My loaded alloy 5 inch 1911 is 4 oz heavier than a loaded glock 17.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I've shot Kevin B's alloy framed SA Operator and I didn't perceive the recoil as that much more pronounced than all steel. But sure felt lighter in the hand.

[Balisong]

My Wilsons are more like a Mule than the Gen 4&5 Glocks I tried two years ago.

I'm almost 5 cases of ammo past where the Glocks started having trouble and I haven't even cleaned or changed a spring on the 1911.

It's a tired topic debated mostly by people with no experience of one side.

I have no dog in this fight, but I'm curious what trouble you had show up with Gen 5 glocks and about what round count? They seem highly thought of on here so I was a bit surprised by your statement. I really appreciate in here that you and other folks have real round counts on your guns so those of us that can't shoot as much can learn what's probably in store for the long run for different guns.

[JonInWA]

My Wilsons are more like a Mule than the Gen 4&5 Glocks I tried two years ago.

I'm almost 5 cases of ammo past where the Glocks started having trouble and I haven't even cleaned or changed a spring on the 1911.

It's a tired topic debated mostly by people with no experience of one side.

The " It's a tired topic debated by people with on experience of one side" bit might be true of some of the more fan-boi oriented forums, but I think not here.

It certainly was not in line with the experiences that I've had covering 5 1911s (all save our US GI 1945 Remington Rand were acquired BNIB-and the Remington-Rand has not been one of the problematic ones) and 7 Glocks over a 25 year period (all of the Glocks save a Gen 3 G27 were acquired BNIB); while the 1911s that I currently have are NOW 100% reliable and problem-free, I've had issues with 2 of them in the past. I've had precisely zero issues with my Glocks, which have been predominantly Gen 3s, with one Gen4.

I think that if you need to bet your life on a pistol out of the box (with appropriate cleaning, lubrication and ammunition), there's a greater chance of success with a Glock (or HK, or Beretta, etc.) than with a 1911. That's not to say that a 1911 isn't, or can't be set up and/or made right, but it may require a bit more effort, expertise and due diligence to get there. In my opinion, I think it's something that needs to be factored in with 1911 ownership and use, particularly in the acquisition process and prior to using defensively/for duty.

Best, Jon

[ralph]

I have no dog in this fight, but I'm curious what trouble you had show up with Gen 5 glocks and about what round count? They seem highly thought of on here so I was a bit surprised by your statement. I really appreciate in here that you and other folks have real round counts on your guns so those of us that can't shoot as much can learn what's probably in store for the long run for different guns.


Just taking a stab at this, but if I'm not mistaken, 5 cases=5000 rnds.

[Dave T]

Given the number of respondents who claim a 1911 must be set up by a master smith to be reliable...one wonders how on earth all those 1911A1s got through WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. (smile)

Dave

[ralph]

The " It's a tired topic debated by people with on experience of one side" bit might be true of some of the more fan-boi oriented forums, but I think not here.

It certainly was not in line with the experiences that I've had covering 5 1911s (all save our US GI 1945 Remington Rand were acquired BNIB-and the Remington-Rand has not been one of the problematic ones) and 7 Glocks over a 25 year period (all of the Glocks save a Gen 3 G27 were acquired BNIB); while the 1911s that I currently have are NOW 100% reliable and problem-free, I've had issues with 2 of them in the past. I've had precisely zero issues with my Glocks, which have been predominantly Gen 3s, with one Gen4.

I think that if you need to bet your life on a pistol out of the box (with appropriate cleaning, lubrication and ammunition), there's a greater chance of success with a Glock (or HK, or Beretta, etc.) than with a 1911. That's not to say that a 1911 isn't, or can't be set up and/or made right, but it may require a bit more effort, expertise and due diligence to get there. In my opinion, I think it's something that needs to be factored in with 1911 ownership and use, particularly in the acquisition process and prior to using defensively/for duty.

Best, Jon


I will say one thing, this thread has got me to sit down and think about things..Last week while up at the LGS I got to fondle a Dan Wesson TCP in 9mm, after reading this thread and the one below about how reliable 9mm 1911's are, I don't think I want one in 9mm, and I'm not sure I want to go down the .45cal 1911 rabbit hole either.. I've got a HK USPc in .45, with a light LEM, I figure it'll do just as well...

[JonInWA]

Given the number of respondents who claim a 1911 must be set up by a master smith to be reliable...one wonders how on earth all those 1911A1s got through WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. (smile)

Dave

In some significant ways, they were different that what we tend to see and be offered today.

First, they were manufactured with looser tolerances in certain areas/components.

Second, despite being a mass-produced weapon, and in wartime with wartime urgency in production, there was a large, and well trained labor force assembling them to very specific, and enforced requirements. Colt blueprinting was involved and adhered to by Colt, Remington-Rand, Union Switch and Signal, etc. Remington-Rand's initially had a very high rejection rate, but their problems were resolved in fairly short order. In other words, they were essentially well set up by the factory prior to being issued.

Third, There was a significant emphasis on weapons maintenance and operation by unit and higher-echelon leadership.

Fourth, only ball ammunition was involved.

Fifth, they were unlikely to be subjected to high round count usage, unlike many are today.

Sixth, production requirements and standards applied to magazines, too (however, I suspect that units were not as rigorous in magazine maintenance as they were with the basic pistols, especially given the somewhat more difficult disassembly/reassembly of the welded baseplate magazines, and that accumulations of dirt, rust, etc. were hidden from sight); and only 7 round magazines were involved, which provided less pressure against magazine feed lips when fully loaded, minimizing the likelihood of feed lip spread inducing operational issues.

Today, I'll suggest that the closest 1911s to the military 1911A1s are the currently offered (but fairly limited production) Colt Series 70 Reproductions-but they have better sights, better steels, greater inherent accuracy due to improved manufacturing/CNC production techniques, and are more reliable with both ball and hollowpoint bullets/cartridges due to their barrel chamber dimpling.

We personally own both a WWII US GI Remington-Rand (which subsequently went through a thorough arsenal inspection/rebuild) and a current stainless steel Series 70 Reproduction; both perform impeccably (I've never run hollowpoints through the Remington-Rand), and while the Series 70 initially had some brass-to-face irritations, that settled out nicely into a more normal non-irritating ejection pattern after some 200 rounds were put through the gun. In a go-to-war situation, I'll choose the Series 70 hands-down (based on sights alone, let alone the other improvements).

Best, Jon

[eb07]

Most 1911 issues are magazine related. I stick with 7 round magazines and have never had an issue with one.

[JonInWA]

I agree-sticking with quality (but proven) 7 round magazines and quality ball ammunition is a huge 1911 problem eradicator. That's not to say that 8 round (or 10 round, etc.) magazines aren't, or can't be reliable, but it's likely to involve much more time and effort dedicated to empirically finding out what works well, and that can involve factors such as specific cartridges, feed lip profiles, magazine springs, and magazine baseplates.

Best, Jon