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View Full Version : Suggestion for RDS for a shotgun



jmjames
03-23-2012, 01:50 AM
I'm thinking about putting an RDS on my Saiga 12, both for the HD role and for the skeet field. It looks like my best bet is an Aimpoint. The problem is, the Aimpoint Web site is pretty useless in terms of figuring out which sight does what or why, they all share the same general "best, most advanced Aimpoint ever!" text and the stats do not mean much to me since I've never bought an RDS before. Which Aimpoint makes the most sense for this role?

It *seems* like the Micro H1, Micro T1, or Patrol Rifle Optic (PRO) will all be suitable, with the two Micro models being a better choice. Is there a different model I should be looking at instead? Will they hold up to being put on a shotgun throwing slugs and buckshot from time to time?

Thanks!

J.Ja

GJM
03-23-2012, 07:17 AM
H1, H1, H1, since you likely don't need the night vision capability of the more expensive T1.

I am running a H1 on an 870 and Beretta now. Took API 260 at Gunsite with an older Aimpoint, and have never broken one on .416, .375 and 45-70 rifles.

Bigger issue is getting the stock comb height right, as many stocks are set-up for a bead sight, and a Aimpoint will beat your face with slugs if the comb height is too short. The Mesa Urbino stock on an 870 has the proper height for a red dot, as does the factory stock on the Beretta Storm.

Al T.
03-23-2012, 07:24 AM
If PSA sells the H-1 for 450.00 again, that would be my recommendation. The T-1 gives you an option for night vision use which is of no interest to me.

Get a rail installed and we can stick either of my Aimpoints on your Saiga and see what you like. ;)

JMS
03-23-2012, 10:09 AM
H1, agreed, though the PRO would also do fine if the fact that it's bigger doesn't bug you.

Only differencees between the H1 and T1 are, as stated, that the H1 does not have specific NVG settings for use with image-intensification equipment, and the H1 is submersible to about 15', instead of 145' like the T1. Plus, price, but that matches their technical differences. There's no measurable difference between the two in ability to take abuse, in spite of some worrywarts that'll insist that the difference in water resistance MUST mean that the H1 is less durable. They're wrong, except in regard whether or not they expect their optic to survive the countless times they get launched out of a submarine's torpedo tube.

As for the Comp-series devices, essentially the same differences nearly across the board. The M-marked devices are NVG compatible and have a greater submersion resistance. The ML-marked devices are NOT NVG compatible and have lesser, though quite good, submersion resistance.

ANY of them are going to stand up the use on a shotgun.

jmjames
03-23-2012, 11:35 AM
Sounds like my initial intuition on the H1 was right... the PRO could save me some money, but I'll just keep an eye on PSA for them to have the H1 on sale again, like Al says. :)

I'm working out the rail issue now. I'm either going to get a low profile scope mount that sits on the AK-side rail, or get one that attaches to the gas tube. Both have pros and cons. I like optics a bit further back and the side mount does that and is removable, but it is HEAVY (the good one that is properly centered over bore and is super-sturdy seems to be a Russian-made monster at 0.4 lbs.). It will also give me a rail on the side to mount a flashlight if I want (I'm also considering barrel clamps for that). The gas tube rail is a lot more expensive, puts the optic much farther up, is a fairly permanent item, and I could see it potentially not being square, causing problems.

I think I'll order the side mount today, and if I don't like it, then I'll send it back and get the gas tube rail...

J.Ja

JeffJ
03-23-2012, 01:37 PM
and for the skeet field.

Man I wish I could have seen that show up back in college when I was chunking clays for extra money. You might have set the whole gun club into a conniption fit. A Saiga with RDS does not belong on the same field as a Kreighoff:D

Al T.
03-23-2012, 02:28 PM
Jeff, just to make it sporting, I'll let him try my SKB 600 when we hit the range. ;)

JeffJ
03-23-2012, 02:46 PM
I am actually curious about RDS for wing shooting applications, although I also think that the ergos of the Saiga will kinda skew the whole thing - I would imagine that it's not ideal for fast moving side to side targets and just the thought of shooting a double from station 8 with an AK is both intringuing and off putting at the same time.

jmjames
03-23-2012, 04:17 PM
Man I wish I could have seen that show up back in college when I was chunking clays for extra money. You might have set the whole gun club into a conniption fit. A Saiga with RDS does not belong on the same field as a Kreighoff:D

I've actually made the Saiga as "skeet club friendly" as possible... it's got walnut furniture on it. :D

Granted, it's still an 18.5" barrel and a pistol grip, and it still looks like an AK, but hey, I tried to make it blend in with the $3,000 over/under crowd...

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2972-My-Saiga-12-build

J.Ja

jmjames
03-23-2012, 04:37 PM
I am actually curious about RDS for wing shooting applications, although I also think that the ergos of the Saiga will kinda skew the whole thing - I would imagine that it's not ideal for fast moving side to side targets and just the thought of shooting a double from station 8 with an AK is both intringuing and off putting at the same time.

Jeff -

It's actually pretty nice for that purpose. The "poly choke" makes life easy. The short barrel let's it swing through nicely. I am officially The Worst Skeet Shooter In the South East and I often hit a double on station 8 with it, even though on the second shot I'm often rotated nearly 180. The big win on the skeet field with it is that it has a front bead and a rear leaf. It's not the longest sight radius in the world, since the front sight is on the gas tube and the rear sight is on the receiver, but it's better than the single bead arrangement. If I wasn't putting the RDS on it, I'd definitely consider one of the front sights that mount on the barrel at the end to get a longer sight radius.

J.Ja

JeffJ
03-23-2012, 04:58 PM
Hmm, I don't use any sights for wingshooting - to the point of blacking out beads and having a very strong disdain for FO on shotguns. But then again I'm cross dominant and shoot with both eyes open off of my strong shoulder so I'm kind of a freak.

jmjames
03-23-2012, 05:07 PM
Jeff -

I shoot both eyes open for everything, even scopes. It may be "right" it might not be, I've never taken any formal training (though I'd like to). It seems to work really well in the very brief time I had on an RDS once before, it seems to be working out OK on a pistol. I'm wretched with skeet no matter what I do, it seems like...

Me and skeet, it's like the old guy who goes fishing but never catches anything... I love getting out for a few hours, being with a friend or two, and trying my best to hit a few clays... but at the end of the day, I see it as nearly pure leisure time, with the only real side benefit being time handling my shotgun and working the manual of arms. I don't see myself doing any wing shooting any time soon, and if I need to shoot at something moving that fast in an HD role, things have gone pretty far south! :D

J.Ja

Tamara
03-24-2012, 06:51 AM
Man I wish I could have seen that show up back in college when I was chunking clays for extra money. You might have set the whole gun club into a conniption fit. A Saiga with RDS does not belong on the same field as a Kreighoff:D

That'd cause people to violate the NRA's First Rule of Firearms Safety, which is "Never Spill Your Tom Collins On Your Perrazzi."

No, wait, that's the Second Rule. The First Rule is "Never Climb A Fence With A Loaded Gun." :o

My bad. Carry on.

DocGKR
03-24-2012, 08:21 AM
H1 micro-Aimpoint.
957

JeffJ
03-24-2012, 05:20 PM
That'd cause people to violate the NRA's First Rule of Firearms Safety, which is "Never Spill Your Tom Collins On Your Perrazzi."

No, wait, that's the Second Rule. The First Rule is "Never Climb A Fence With A Loaded Gun." :o

My bad. Carry on.

It was definitely that kind of gun club

jmjames
04-17-2012, 10:35 PM
I just picked up an H1 (2 MOA model) today and mounted it. I set it fairly far back to make sure that shells wouldn't hit it, but that's probably not a concern... the Saiga 12 likes to throw 'em about 10 yards out at a 45 degree angle. I have to say, it is an absolutely slick, sweet sight, so much easier than trying to find the bead! I can't wait to take it out to play with. I made a bunch of changes to the gun over the last few weeks, so now it needs another range day to get things hashed out...

Thanks for the advice!

J.Ja

jmjames
05-05-2012, 10:59 PM
Put up a range report from my first session with the H1 on:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2972-My-Saiga-12-build&p=63738#post63738

J.Ja