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bac1023
04-17-2019, 07:52 AM
Well I wasn’t planning on buying another P210, but a really nice deal came to me at my local shop. I don’t own a P210–2 and these later –2 commercial variants are a bit rare. They were only built for a very short time, as far as I know. Not many were manufactured.

Here's a basic breakdown of its history. The Sig P210 was originally a military pistol. It was introduced in 1947 after being in development for a number of years (delayed by WWII). It was adopted by the Swiss army in 1949, finally replacing the Luger. While it doesn't quite have the service pedigree of, say, the Browning Hi Power, the P210 has a storied past and has been used by a number of countries for various functions over the years. From a quality and accuracy standpoint, the Sig always had the Browning beat by a landslide. The accuracy of the Sig is legendary and the Swiss army routinely used them out to 100 yards. These pistols were basically entirely hand built in Switzerland, starting from slides and frames that are machined from solid carbon steel forgings. All these fine materials and precision craftsmanship made the P210 a very expensive gun to build, which helped lead to its replacement by the P220 in the mid 1970’s.

Once replaced in its service life, the P210 lived on in a sporting role, with the target variants like the P210-6 and P210-5 becoming more popular. Production ended in 2005, primarily due to manufacturing costs. In 2010, Sig reintroduced the P210, as the German P210 Legend. The German models were very high quality and great shooting pistols. The Legend was built for a number of years. Now a more economical version of the P210 is being built at Sig USA. However, I’ll always prefer the old Swiss examples for their incredible old world build quality and durability.

As for the pistol itself, the Sig P210 is basically peerless. To me, the Swiss made Sig P210 ranks as the very finest handgun ever produced. In my carefully thought out opinion, no other automatic pistol ever constructed during any time period has combined the build quality, durability, accuracy, and service pedigree to the degree of this Sig. There are pistols that can match or maybe even exceed it in a one category or another, but when combined, nothing else comes close, as far as I’m concerned. In fact, the only handgun that can come close to matching it in all these criteria is a revolver, the Manurhin MR 73. :)

Changes happened through the years of Swiss P210 development. Forged frames and slides went away in the early to mid 1980’s in favor of being machined from bar stock via CNC. This happened just before the serial numbers switched to the 300xxx series. Due to the incredible precision of the equipment, these CNC P210’s required much less hand fitting than the earlier forged models. The forged models were always my favorites, because I value old world craftsmanship. However, I’ve never seen a reason to think the CNC models weren’t just as refined or as accurate. In fact, I know some folks prefer the CNC made P210’s. To the untrained eye, they look identical.

The P210-2 is basically the old military version, but sold to the public. The originals had black plastic grips and a Swiss Shield in front of the rear sight. It was basically the commercial P210-1 without the polished bluing or wood grips. This example is not one of those early P210-2 models. Instead it’s a later commercial model built just after Sig of Switzerland changed to Swiss Arms Neuhausen (SAN). Swiss Arms built the –2 variant for only a short period of time, possibly just 2002. Just about all Swiss Arms P210’s were built on the CNC Heavy Frame. I believe this short run of –2 models were the only standard frames used by Swiss Arms. I also believe this very short run of –2 variants are the only examples actually stamped as such. The original –2 models were not. I have attached a 2003 catalog of Swiss Arms, which does not include the –2. My thinking is that they saw no reason to continue producing it and instead just stuck with the target models. The uniqueness of it, coupled with the price is why I added it to my collection. I highly doubt more than a few hundred were made. It’s the first one I’ve ever seen. :cool:

This example (serial # P323219) was built in 2002 and remains in great condition. Handling marks are very few and the matte bluing shows no wear whatsoever. I tried by best to show the amazing precision of this pistol, right down to the roll markings. The –2 lacks the target sights that most –6 models have. It also lacks the target trigger and serrations on the front strap. It is good to see that it was built to the specs of the earlier P210-2, other than the plastic grips. Its also complete with the box, manual, and 50 meter test target. Incidentally, the 6-shot group is just 2” at that long distance. Not bad for a milspec model. At $2400 OTD, I did great!

Thanks for reading and please share your thoughts. :)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/kYXFtD.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plkYXFtDj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/9XBUWp.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pn9XBUWpj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/BrJyFU.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnBrJyFUj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/1ZXyZC.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/po1ZXyZCj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/VMsedN.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poVMsedNj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/jNopyW.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnjNopyWj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/GNnuyj.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plGNnuyjj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/UikMu2.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poUikMu2j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/5tZj5L.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pl5tZj5Lj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/dt3Xj8.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pndt3Xj8j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Swvl7W.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnSwvl7Wj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/tbr7xl.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pltbr7xlj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/8UEYRv.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/po8UEYRvj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/vfBpFQ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plvfBpFQj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/cY0t6I.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plcY0t6Ij)










Here it is with my others.

Left to right: 1954 P210-1, 1967 P210-6, 1975 P210-6HF, 2002 P210-2, and 2003 P210-6HF


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/ukLUcU.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plukLUcUj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Zjha0l.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnZjha0lj)

Robinson
04-17-2019, 08:07 AM
Wow, that's a beautiful set of pistols.

I assume some of those grips are by Nill?

Poconnor
04-17-2019, 08:14 AM
I had one of the military trade ins that was refinished by Sig. I never should have traded it off. I try not to be jealous but you are making it difficult.

Spartan1980
04-17-2019, 08:24 AM
Simply outstanding!

HCountyGuy
04-17-2019, 08:24 AM
Learned some history about these and saw some good Sig porn. Consider me jealous of your exquisite collection of P210s. You should do some more write-ups like this.

It saddens me to think of where Sig is now quality-wise compared to the outright masterful machines like this that they used to produce.

UNM1136
04-17-2019, 08:43 AM
I think I remember Leroy Thompson me toning that the SAS used them quite a bit for executive protection details on the ski slopes. They also liked taking long shots with them.

I' ll reach out to a buddy who spent two years on an exchange tour with them in the early 90s.

pat

JRB
04-17-2019, 09:19 AM
Mr. BAC, I get the feeling that I'd have a heart attack if I saw even 10% of your collection in the same place!

That is a heck of a pistol and thank you for taking the time to share a write-up about it and some other pictures of your collection - it was a much-needed treat this morning!

Mike C
04-17-2019, 09:28 AM
bac1023, absolutely stunning. The P210 is my absolute favorite gun of all time and I couldn't agree more that it is one of the finest guns ever to be built. The quality and craftsmanship are reminiscent of a time when artisans made weapons. Exquisite collection. I hope you chose to share more, thank you for the photos.

J. J. Magnum
04-17-2019, 10:00 AM
Serious jealousy here... I had a close friend once tell me that a P210 was the closest thing you could have to a rifle on your belt. Having shot a couple in the past I have to agree.

1986s4
04-17-2019, 11:00 AM
Dang..
That's all.

bac1023
04-17-2019, 11:50 AM
bac1023, absolutely stunning. The P210 is my absolute favorite gun of all time and I couldn't agree more that it is one of the finest guns ever to be built. The quality and craftsmanship are reminiscent of a time when artisans made weapons. Exquisite collection. I hope you chose to share more, thank you for the photos.

Thanks. Here’s a bit more I’ll share.

My finest P210 is the 1967 -6 model. Its actually one of the custom kits Sig sold back then. Came with the matching 30 Luger barrel and the entire rimfire upper assembly (from the P210-7 line). Its got the very rare factory full checkered grips that I believe were only included in these package deals.

At any rate, its quite a gem. I never shot it, because I believe its unfired outside the factory. You can see the test targets, one being 22LR.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/G1yrL8.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnG1yrL8j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/N8syIZ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmN8syIZj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/etQUXu.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnetQUXuj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/P5E7gk.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmP5E7gkj)









My most valuable is the Heavy Frame from 1975. While the later CNC Heavy Frames are relatively easy to find, the forged Heavy Frames of the mid 1970's are a true unicorn. Only a couple hundred were made, with the vast majority being in Europe. God knows how many are still even around 40+ years later, but here's one of them in all its glory! :cool:


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/S52FkW.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnS52FkWj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Bflgi5.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnBflgi5j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/ZTy8OT.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmZTy8OTj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/pNhK22.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnpNhK22j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/qjy4Y3.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmqjy4Y3j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/WqIBAc.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnWqIBAcj)

Mike C
04-17-2019, 12:01 PM
bac1023, Wow... that is unbelievable! I hate to say that I am ever envious but that is amazing and I am foaming at the mouth. You are truly fortunate to find and own such a magnificent weapon, where or how did you come across the whole package?

bac1023
04-17-2019, 02:25 PM
bac1023, Wow... that is unbelievable! I hate to say that I am ever envious but that is amazing and I am foaming at the mouth. You are truly fortunate to find and own such a magnificent weapon, where or how did you come across the whole package?

I believe they were only sold in Europe and I don't believe Sig offered them very long. Production was very limited. Mine was privately imported, so I highly doubt there are many others in the country. I have a few connections that allow me to procure some really rare stuff here and there.

I've only ever seen two others for sale. One was a Euro auction. Here's a similar kit that sold a number of years back...once again you see the full checkered grips.

https://www.icollector.com/Excellent-Cased-Sig-Model-SP-47-8-Target-Semi-Automatic-Pistol-with-Case-Extra-Magazine-and-Convers_i17959465



Here's some macro pics.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/MjPvQM.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnMjPvQMj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/tRXU74.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/potRXU74j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/L7UMjZ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnL7UMjZj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/7NdSwj.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pl7NdSwjj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/yK866A.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnyK866Aj)






Here's a close up of the included -7 upper assembly.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/4u3ryv.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pl4u3ryvj)

bac1023
04-17-2019, 02:44 PM
You should do some more write-ups like this.

Be careful what you wish for :D

B0308
04-17-2019, 06:08 PM
I picked up a P210-6 in 1984, from a former Army guy who claimed to have bought it from an MwR Rod&Gun Club in France before DeGaulle kicked the US out. What a great pistol. I swear there was more prescsion machining in the slide stop than and Glock I now own.

A piece of art but accurate and reliable as heck. If there is ever a pistol I regret selling (though I made a bundle) this one is it.

I can't imagine owning more than one.

All the best.

bac1023
04-17-2019, 09:38 PM
Wow, that's a beautiful set of pistols.

I assume some of those grips are by Nill?

Yes sir

Nill made grips for Sig, though I'm not completely sure when they started. The two later guns are definitely wearing Nills.

Jaywalker
04-17-2019, 10:01 PM
Tell us about the trigger and how smooth the slide feels when you rack it. I sold mine 35 years ago ans still think about those things.

Spartan1980
04-17-2019, 10:11 PM
Be careful what you wish for :D

^^^ Heed this!

If he breaks out the round guns we'll all be needing new keyboards due to the drooling.

Hieronymous
04-18-2019, 09:36 PM
Thanks very much for sharing. Can’t think of a more elegant pistol than the P-210.

Alpha Sierra
04-19-2019, 08:30 AM
I wonder if an updated P-210 made in .40 S&W and with a double stack magazine could be made and marketed as an IPSC Standard/USPSA Limited pistol to compete with the CZ TSO and the upcoming Beretta 92X...….

Jim Watson
04-19-2019, 01:22 PM
Well, there was the developmental SP44/16.
I don't think they would care to tool up for a new version just for the relatively small action match market where it would have to compete with well established CZs, TZs, and 2011s.

But the folks at Laugo are still pushing the Alien which is listed at $5000 for one of the first 500 which includes a lot of extras, including both iron sight and optic uppers and a dot to put on the optic.
It has been approved for IPSC Production, too; which is a massive dilution of that division's original purpose.

Alpha Sierra
04-19-2019, 03:24 PM
But the folks at Laugo are still pushing the Alien which is listed at $5000 for one of the first 500 which includes a lot of extras, including both iron sight and optic uppers and a dot to put on the optic.
It has been approved for IPSC Production, too; which is a massive dilution of that division's original purpose.

Yeah that's a crock but at $5K it will be a self-correcting problem

Ed L
04-19-2019, 07:47 PM
Thanks for a great thread.

It got me thinking.

I looked up a thread on the American made Sig P210 which told me that the American made Sig P210 was not a good option: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30695-American-P210

Off I go to gunbroker just to look--and I mean just look.

bac1023
04-19-2019, 08:02 PM
Thanks for a great thread.

It got me thinking.

I looked up a thread on the American made Sig P210 which told me that the American made Sig P210 was not a good option: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30695-American-P210

Off I go to gunbroker just to look--and I mean just look.

I’m not a fan of the American P210A. They are accurate guns, but build quality is on a different level and the design was altered to reduce costs.

Joe in PNG
04-19-2019, 08:04 PM
Thanks for a great thread.

It got me thinking.

I looked up a thread on the American made Sig P210 which told me that the American made Sig P210 was not a good option: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30695-American-P210

Off I go to gunbroker just to look--and I mean just look.

Sounds like that one belongs in the "I should not want one..." (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36195-I-should-not-want-one-but-I-did) thread.

Ed L
04-19-2019, 08:31 PM
I’m not a fan of the American P210A. They are accurate guns, but build quality is on a different level and the design was altered to reduce costs.

That was my conclusion from the thread. Plus I distrust Sig.


Sounds like that one belongs in the "I should not want one..." (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36195-I-should-not-want-one-but-I-did) thread.

Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it.

Just looking at prices of something on gunbroker is usually the first step of how bad things happen.