Larry Mudgett tests the Ruger Vaquero in a self-defense role

[Duces Tecum]

SNIP I do not suggest that a “Steel Challenge” champion could do better if he traded his custom semi-automatic pistol for a single action revolver. Our informal competition only disclosed that I was slightly faster with the single action revolver than my fellow instructors were with their semi-automatic pistols on that occasion. I was however inspired to conduct some tests to compare single action revolvers against handguns which are morecommonly carried for self-defense.

http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/single-action-revolvers-for-self-defense-2/ (http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/single-action-revolvers-for-self-defense-2/)

[Rex G]

Interesting read; thanks for posting the link.

During the late Nineties, into this century, I dabbled a bit with single-action revolvers, and quickly realized that they could be serious weapons. As Larry Mudgett discovered, I learned that an S.A. sixgun will beat the overall performance of a J-Snub, by a considerable margin.

I did not make it a practice to carry S.A. sixguns, for defense, at the time, because I was required, by PD rules, to be armed only with weapons with which I had fired a qual, within the past twelve months. (There was an exception for sporting weapons, but worded so that it was clearly not OK to intentionally circumvent/game the rules.)

Having said that, one time when I very nearly went for my gun, in a public place, it was an AIWB’ed USFA Single Action, when my duty P229 and my Ruger SP101 revolvers were at home, having been taken-down and largely covered with cleaning solution. A car, occupied 2x, circled us, in the steakhouse parking lot. My colleague was carrying his single-stack off-the-clock pistol, or his duty P229, so we were both armed. I did not feel outgunned, and remembered feeling supreme confidence; that we were more of a danger to them, than they to us. The two “utes” changed their expressions from predatory to falsely congenial, what might today be termed “haha LOL,” so I was, thankfully, not compelled to take further action with an unauthorized weapon.

Recently, in retirement, I have started to dabble with single action sixguns, again. I still have most of those I acquired in the past, and have added a couple more. Life is good. :)

[Paul D]

I can understand carrying a revolver in the field for its ability to deliver more powerful rounds (ie 357, 41, 44, 45). Why not just carry a DA revolver especially when a defensive role is needed. Sure as easier to reload. I have a Vaquero 44 Mag and a Redhawk 44 Mag, and the Redhawk is faster reload. For some reason the Vaquero is softer to shoot.

[ralph]

Interesting read; thanks for posting the link.

During the late Nineties, into this century, I dabbled a bit with single-action revolvers, and quickly realized that they could be serious weapons. As Larry Mudgett discovered, I learned that an S.A. sixgun will beat the overall performance of a J-Snub, by a considerable margin.

I did not make it a practice to carry S.A. sixguns, for defense, at the time, because I was required, by PD rules, to be armed only with weapons with which I had fired a qual, within the past twelve months. (There was an exception for sporting weapons, but worded so that it was clearly not OK to intentionally circumvent/game the rules.)

Having said that, one time when I very nearly went for my gun, in a public place, it was an AIWB’ed USFA Single Action, when my duty P229 and my Ruger SP101 revolvers were at home, having been taken-down and largely covered with cleaning solution. A car, occupied 2x, circled us, in the steakhouse parking lot. My colleague was carrying his single-stack off-the-clock pistol, or his duty P229, so we were both armed. I did not feel outgunned, and remembered feeling supreme confidence; that we were more of a danger to them, than they to us. The two “utes” changed their expressions from predatory to falsely congenial, what might today be termed “haha LOL,” so I was, thankfully, not compelled to take further action with an unauthorized weapon.

Recently, in retirement, I have started to dabble with single action sixguns, again. I still have most of those I acquired in the past, and have added a couple more. Life is good. :)

I know lately I've been eyeing a Stainless Vaquero with a birdshead grip, 3 3/4" bbl in .45acp..I'm thinking this would be a seriously fun gun to shoot, ( I already load .45acp, so ammo's not a problem) and with some +p JHP's could do well as a HD pistol, I'm not sure I'd carry it. However, I could see how it would work in a pinch..

[HeavyDuty]

I know lately I've been eyeing a Stainless Vaquero with a birdshead grip, 3 3/4" bbl in .45acp..I'm thinking this would be a seriously fun gun to shoot, ( I already load .45acp, so ammo's not a problem) and with some +p JHP's could do well as a HD pistol, I'm not sure I'd carry it. However, I could see how it would work in a pinch..

I have one of these, and I love it for woods carry. I think it’s a 5152.

[JonInWA]

I recently used my Ruger Blackhawk .357 in an IDPA match, with full-house Sellier & Bellot 158 gr cartridges. The match was back-up gun optimized, with loads and reloads limited to 6 rounds, so I figured it could be a superb opportunity to add some semi-realistic stress to using the Blackhawk, which I use for deer hunting and as a hunting/hiking backup. Reloads were accomplished with using a .357 magnum Desert Eagle magazine with a cut-down spring as a Pez-like cartridge dispenser.

My Blackhawk has been the beneficiary of a superb action job and overall renovation by Ruger, and also has a white-outline rear sight, and the front sight's rear face has been painted white, which greatly speeds up acquisition and accuracy.

I had a blast. I was slow (due to reload speed, even with the magazine assist)-I finished dead last, but my accuracy was excellent-only 16 points down for the entire match as I recall. It definitely gave me a sense of renewed confidence in the viability of the Blackhawk.

Best, Jon

[sharps54]

I can see the allure but don’t think it is worth the trade offs unless you are into CAS and only own single actions (probably not anyone here) or just find you shoot a SAA SUBSTANTIALLY better than any other handgun. The 5 to 6 round limitation, reload speed, and need to cock the hammer each time really are huge negatives. I can’t see packing two SAAs like he did on the qual. It would be hard enough for a civilian to justify carrying a backup gun these day much less a matched pair of SAAs, talk about a gift to the prosecutor!

I’d be interested in seeing a modern DA revolver the size of a SAA included in the article’s test. It is easy enough to say a SAA is easier to shoot than a J frame, how about a 3 or 4 inch K frame or a modern King Cobra?

All that said if I did end up with a single action for a CCW I wouldn’t feel unarmed (heck I used to shoot frontiersman in CAS) but I would spend a lot more time one handed shooting, both strong and weak hand!

[Clusterfrack]

I can understand carrying a revolver in the field for its ability to deliver more powerful rounds (ie 357, 41, 44, 45). Why not just carry a DA revolver especially when a defensive role is needed. Sure as easier to reload. I have a Vaquero 44 Mag and a Redhawk 44 Mag, and the Redhawk is faster reload. For some reason the Vaquero is softer to shoot.

A couple of years ago, I carried a .44 SBH in Alaska for bear defense. I considered a DA Ruger Alaskan, but the trigger reach is quite long for my hands, and I like the solid simplicity of the SBH. To train up for that trip, I shot the Gabe White drills, and was quite pleased with the results. However, after some work, I came to the conclusion that reloads were a non-starter. I would rather carry a "backup gun", which for me would be my standard CCW G43 or CZ P-07.


Here's a full set of GW Drills with the SBH Bisley .44.

Gun: Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley 3.75" .44 mag, High Viz FO sights.
Holster: Simply Rugged Sourdough Pancake
Ammo: Full power 240gr reloads
Concealment: IDPA type vest
Notes: As before, I did not have much difficulty beating the Light time for 2H. Given the main use (grizzly defense), limited capacity, and glacial speed of reloading, I think this is by far the most important drill--so that's encouraging. It's been years since I've shot IDPA, and the concealment garment felt unfamiliar. I don't think I netted any time on the draws from concealment. On the very first run I pushed it too fast on the draw, and ended up cocking the gun before it fully cleared the holster. My finger wasn't in the trigger guard, but I did not like this one bit. I backed off a bit on the draw speed, focused on a good master grip, and only cocked the gun when it was pointed downrange for the rest of the session. There is plenty of time to thumb back the hammer during the final part of the presentation.

(Total time after penalties and concealment in parentheses)
F2S
3.67 (3.42)
3.55 +.25 (3.55)
3.03 (1.69, .68,.67) (2.78) Dark

2H
2.74 (2.49) Light
2.75 (2.50) Light
2.83 (2.58) Dark

4B2H
6.06 +1.5 (7.31)
7.33 +.5 (7.58)

Bill
5.43 +.25 (5.43)
5.44 (5.19)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170512/da03290637082a2cd4b1aaa8d611648f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170512/16a67e99bae909f8521fa5dbd3e00784.jpg

[GJM]

Back in my .44 magnum for field use days, before the intro of the Scandium 239, I had a trick four inch Bowen stainless Blackhawk built. I shot it exceptionally well, and much preferred it to a 629. However after a week long Gunsite Backcountry class (their predator defense class), I realized that a Smith DA revolver was far superior in a field defensive scenario.

[Rex G]

Autoloading pistols make wonderful “reloads,” for those of us who like revolvers, whether SA or DA. ;)

I seem to remember Elmer Keith writing something like this, in a previous century. IIRC, he was referring to the S&W Model 39 and/or 59.

[sharps54]

Walking the dogs tonight just reinforced the challenges the single action presents as a defensive arm. As I mentioned in my other post you better get darn good with one hand because even if you drop the leash you still need a free hand for the flashlight. The SAA does point very well (for some folks) so you may get away with target focus but I’m not sure I’d want that to be any only option.

It’s funny because I’m in the same camp as Malamute in that I would happily trade away my bottom feeders to own a proper engraved Colt SAA or New Frontier (something like the beautiful revolvers on display in the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame) but it would be like picking a Street Rod for a daily driver. I’d have tons of pride in ownership and it would perform great under certain circumstances but most of the time it would definitely not be the best (or even a sensible) choice for the job.

[Doc_Glock]

Will the SA revolver become the new PF hotness? Remains to be seen:)

[Malamute]

I havent read the linked article yet.

I started shooting SA revolvers before anything else, and have shot and carried them a fair bit over time. It probably doesnt make sense to consider an SA revolver on its technical merits, though the ability to shoot one well, and with, to me, much less effort to achieve good results than other types, particularly any autos Ive used, has kept me using them.

Im probably not mainstream in the reasons I carry for most of my uses, I consider shootability, usefulness for outdoors situations much higher overall than most. Accuracy is high on the list for a field gun for me when you shoot small game with them, or longer distances. For a given centerfire caliber, like 357 and up, the SAs have been much easier on the hands, and much easier to shoot well in general, though Smith DAs have a lot going for them. I like the 4" 29s and 24s quite a lot.

I cant suggest anyone else carry an SA for defensive purposes, but I dont feel too bad having one close by.

ETA: Thinking back to the passion of the gun thread of several years ago, I dont know how much of a factor it is in shooting them well, but I really like SA revolvers. Like shooting them, handling them, looking at them, working on them, their history, and think they are truly fun to shoot and work with. Autos, not so much. More like a chore to me, like something you should do, even if you dont really want to. I get re-inspired now and then to shoot autos, but it never lasts very long. I always enjoy SA revolvers.

[Totem Polar]

I know lately I've been eyeing a Stainless Vaquero with a birdshead grip, 3 3/4" bbl in .45acp..I'm thinking this would be a seriously fun gun to shoot, ( I already load .45acp, so ammo's not a problem) and with some +p JHP's could do well as a HD pistol, I'm not sure I'd carry it. However, I could see how it would work in a pinch..

Can’t vouch for the stainless version, but the exact same gun in blued steel is an absolute blast to shoot. Just saying.

[JHC]

Will the SA revolver become the new PF hotness? Remains to be seen:)



Oh that would be somethin'!!! :D I have very little time on SA revos and would like to get handy with one. It's not the shooting part, the BH .45 I owned was easy to shoot accurately freestyle. The handling, cocking, firing "duelist" mode turned out to be pretty challenging for me.

[JAH 3rd]

Oh that would be somethin'!!! :D I have very little time on SA revos and would like to get handy with one. It's not the shooting part, the BH .45 I owned was easy to shoot accurately freestyle. The handling, cocking, firing "duelist" mode turned out to be pretty challenging for me.

100% agree. If one thinks about it, when shooting a pistol or double action revolver, just aim and pull the trigger. I shoot the SA revolver for fun. For me, I would have to relearn too much to use the SA for self-defense.

[Doc_Glock]

SA Revolvers give one the time to think just a little more before applying deadly force, likely saving lives. When a criminal hears that hammer click back, they know you mean business, but I wouldn’t count on a psychological stop.

Cocking with each shot allows one to shoot at evaluation speed and be accountable for every shot.

You do have to remember to cock before shooting and decock before holstering, but the trade off is probably worth it due to the amazing shootability of the SA trigger.

Administrative handling and AIWB carry are much safer due to the lack of need to pull the trigger for cleaning or disassembly. Just be sure to have the hammer down on an empty chamber on the older models.

The shape of the pistols with the long barrel and rounded grip really help concealment AIWB.

[Duces Tecum]

SA Revolvers give one the time to think just a little more before applying deadly force, likely saving lives. When a criminal hears that hammer click back, they know you mean business, but I wouldn’t count on a psychological stop.

Cocking with each shot allows one to shoot at evaluation speed and be accountable for every shot.

Oh, my! I don't even know where to start.

[Rex G]

100% agree. If one thinks about it, when shooting a pistol or double action revolver, just aim and pull the trigger. I shoot the SA revolver for fun. For me, I would have to relearn too much to use the SA for self-defense.

Auto-loader, DA revolver, SA revolver, bow/arrow, or atlatl/spear, or even a steaming cup of hot coffee, the vital principles of using projectile weapons, for defense, remain largely the same. ;)

Some of Platt and Mattix’ victims were attacked while out plinking along the Tamiami Trail. Some habituated bears, anticipating a free lunch, have run to the sound of gunfire. The “balloon could go up” while we are shooting our fun guns.

Please, do not see my tone as argumentative. :)

E.T.A.: To be clear, I am not advocating that anyone select a SA sixgun as a primary defensive weapon.

[Gary1911A1]

Why do I think the movie "The Highwaymen" is the reason behind this thread?:D Going to have to get me a Ruger Vaquero in blue myself.

[Chuck Whitlock]

E.T.A.: To be clear, I am not advocating that anyone select a SA sixgun as a primary defensive weapon.

The take away that I got from the article was not an endorsement of SA sixguns for defense, per se, but rather that they weren't nearly as limiting or obsolete as conventional wisdom suggests.

[Hambo]

Walking the dogs tonight just reinforced the challenges the single action presents as a defensive arm. As I mentioned in my other post you better get darn good with one hand because even if you drop the leash you still need a free hand for the flashlight. The SAA does point very well (for some folks) so you may get away with target focus but I’m not sure I’d want that to be any only option.

I used a SA and light once at night. My enemy was a wounded and unhappy hog. After that unhappy occasion I thought a G20/21 with WML would be a much better choice. That said, I often carry a Super Seven in .327 when out in the woods during the day.

[ralph]

The take away that I got from the article was not an endorsement of SA sixguns for defense, per se, but rather that they weren't nearly as limiting or obsolete as conventional wisdom suggests.

That's pretty much what I got out of it as well..While a SA revlover would'nt be mine, or just about anybody on this board's first choice, the article does prove that even today, SA revlovers are still quite capable, and could work if that was all you had, or allowed to use via State/Federal gov't... Still, they appear to me looking like seriously fun guns..I only have 2, both .22cal SA pistols, a Ruger Super Single Six, with the .22mag cylinder I had my dad buy it for me in 1972, The other a Colt New Frontier, flattop with .22 mag cylinder, I bought last year..But I'm wanting a center fire SA pistol..guess I better start saving my coins..

[Hizzie]

Great. Now I have to price a Vaquero. What caliber do I “need”?

[Tennessee Jed]

For me, when I decided to learn more about single action revolvers, I went whole hog and went with 45 Colt.

Which, after pricing ammo, shortly thereafter led me to entering the world of handloading.

That is not to say that I think Larry Mudgett's tests with 357 mag is anything less than very very cool. From what I've read, that gentleman has forgotten more about single action revolvers than I will ever know.

[03RN]

I've killed more varmints with my .45 blackhawk at night than all other guns combined.

[HeavyDuty]

Great. Now I have to price a Vaquero. What caliber do I “need”?

I’m a huge fan of the ACP in Vaqs. They eject cleanly, and you can use old 1911 mags as speedloaders.

[03RN]

I’m a huge fan of the ACP in Vaqs. They eject cleanly, and you can use old 1911 mags as speedloaders.

The 4 5/8 in 357 with a 9mm cylinder would be a damn fine everything SA.

[BehindBlueI's]

Hard pass. Another version of the empty chamber carry problem where a manipulation is needed to employ the weapon that may be problematic if you're entangled. Add in the need to decock manually, probably on a loaded chamber, if the situation changes and perhaps under the after-action adrenaline shakes.

[sharps54]

I've killed more varmints with my .45 blackhawk at night than all other guns combined.

I don’t doubt it. My point wasn’t that it couldn’t be done but that it would all (cocking and firing) be done one handed as the other hand will be manipulating the light. For hunting I suppose you might be using NVGs or a head mounted light but defensively I can’t imagine you would have anything but a handheld.

What light source did you use and what percentage of your single action revolver practice time is one handed?

[03RN]

I don’t doubt it. My point wasn’t that it couldn’t be done but that it would all (cocking and firing) be done one handed as the other hand will be manipulating the light. For hunting I suppose you might be using NVGs or a head mounted light but defensively I can’t imagine you would have anything but a handheld.

What light source did you use and what percentage of your single action revolver practice time is one handed?

This is going back to 05 so exact details might be shaky. I'd bet 80% was with ambiant light. Moon and stars. Between long trips in the woods and living on a farm in a very rural area with no man made lights.

Very little time was spent with one handed practice but I find SA guns pretty natural to shoot one handed.

Mostly yotes, foxes, minks, porcipines, beavers, coons, and 2 legal deer with nusance permits. I had chickens, ducks, rabits, and horses withing 50 yards of my house and had really bad insomnia right after I got out of the Marines so had plenty of time to shoot varmints and listen to coast to coast.

[entropy]

Why do I think the movie "The Highwaymen" is the reason behind this thread?:D Going to have to get me a Ruger Vaquero in blue myself.


Agreed. Quite the co-ink-a-dink...

In that case, I’ll take the Monitor. ;)

[Bigghoss]

Great. Now I have to price a Vaquero. What caliber do I “need”?

When I get around to it I'll be getting a .45 convertible. .45 Colt for the classic cool factor and .45 acp to actually shoot.

[okie john]

When I get around to it I'll be getting a .45 convertible. .45 Colt for the classic cool factor and .45 acp to actually shoot.

Get one with adjustable sights. POIs differ.


Okie John

[Joe in PNG]

I'm suddenly lusting after a Vaquero 3 3/4" in .357/9mm with birdshead grips.
Or the 7 shooter in .327 Mag...

You lot are a bad influence!

[Flamingo]

I'm suddenly lusting after a Vaquero 3 3/4" in .357/9mm with birdshead grips.
Or the 7 shooter in .327 Mag...

You lot are a bad influence!

I have a single six (the mini-vaquero style) in .32 H&R Mag that I really like.

[Totem Polar]

and listen to coast to coast.

As an aside, the mrs and I listened to a ton of coast to coast during the Art Bell years while on the road.

I learned to shoot on a single-six flatgate, an old bearcat, and a flattop .357. No way I’d take an SA as my first defensive choice, but if all I had was my 50th anniversary Blackhawk, I’d still be more worried about other things than the gear. It’s a great shooter, until it’s empty.

[sharps54]

This is going back to 05 so exact details might be shaky. I'd bet 80% was with ambiant light. Moon and stars. Between long trips in the woods and living on a farm in a very rural area with no man made lights.

Very little time was spent with one handed practice but I find SA guns pretty natural to shoot one handed.

Mostly yotes, foxes, minks, porcipines, beavers, coons, and 2 legal deer with nusance permits. I had chickens, ducks, rabits, and horses withing 50 yards of my house and had really bad insomnia right after I got out of the Marines so had plenty of time to shoot varmints and listen to coast to coast.

I could see that. I’m not going to stop carrying a flashlight but to be honest haven’t all of Tom Givens’ students shootings happened in light conditions where they didn’t need to use a flashlight?

[TiroFijo]

What's next? Cane fighting for gentleman's defense? :D

And isn't a DA revolver a SA also? It reloads much faster too.

But for defensive purposes against humans give me a humble non hipster semiauto, please.

[Totem Polar]

What's next? Cane fighting for gentleman's defense? :D
.

https://www.amazon.com/Broad-Sword-Single-Stick-Quarter-Staff-Walking-Stick-Self-Defence-ebook/dp/B0039GL1PK

You’re welcome. ;)

[JAH 3rd]

Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I recently bought the SA Ruger revolver referenced in this link. I bought the 45 long Colt / .45ACP version of this revolver.

https://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkBisley/specSheets/0470.html

[Rex G]

What's next? Cane fighting for gentleman's defense? :D

And isn't a DA revolver a SA also? It reloads much faster too.

But for defensive purposes against humans give me a humble non hipster semiauto, please.

1. Yes, and stick-fighting for roughmen. It is a thing. ;)

2. Some of the principles of using a DA revolver in single-action mode are a bit different than using an SA revolver. Among other things, the SA sixgun is about hammer management, rather than trigger management. One can actually keep the trigger pulled continuously, with an SA revolver, and just manage the hammer, or, completely remove the trigger from some SA revolvers, making it a “slip-shooting” gun.

3. Never heard of a hipster gun, but, OK, nothing wrong with semi-autos. Had I not become an LEO, and therefore been required to learn and carry DA revolvers, I may well have remained an auto-loading shooter my entire life. (My first handgun was a 1911; I thought revolvers were quaint, at the time.)

[TiroFijo]

1. Yes, and stick-fighting for roughmen. It is a thing. ;)

2. Some of the principles of using a DA revolver in single-action mode are a bit different than using an SA revolver. Among other things, the SA sixgun is about hammer management, rather than trigger management. One can actually keep the trigger pulled continuously, with an SA revolver, and just manage the hammer, or, completely remove the trigger from some SA revolvers, making it a “slip-shooting” gun.

3. Never heard of a hipster gun, but, OK, nothing wrong with semi-autos. Had I not become an LEO, and therefore been required to learn and carry DA revolvers, I may well have remained an auto-loading shooter my entire life. (My first handgun was a 1911; I thought revolvers were quaint, at the time.)

Rex, my comments were tongue-in-cheek... I'm pretty familiar with revolvers of all kinds

Regarding point 2, I wonder how many people would actually use a SA revolver like that in a self defense situation.

[Rex G]

Rex, my comments were tongue-in-cheek... I'm pretty familiar with revolvers of all kinds

Regarding point 2, I wonder how many people would actually use a SA revolver like that in a self defense situation.

1. Yes, as were mine. :)

2. As the article indicated, some folks got into shooting firearms because they were attracted to the sport(s) of cowboy action shooting, and/or shooting at balloons while mounted on a horse. Such shooters, if suddenly aware of the need to learn defensive shooting, may be better-served, at least in the short term, by using tools with which they are familiar.

I will add that when I slept with a carpal-tunnel-syndrome splint, on each hand, for a while, I kept an SA sixgun by the bed, along with the usual shotgun. These were the two serious weapons I could manipulate, in the event of there being no time to shuck the splints. (Otherwise, my SA revolvers tend to live inside the safe.)

[Hambo]

my 50th anniversary Blackhawk

I still kick myself for not buying one of those. Love the flat tops.

[Stephanie B]

...my 50th anniversary Blackhawk...
My first handgun was a 50th Anniversary convertible Blackhawk (6", .357/9mm). I still have it.

[Hizzie]

I’m a huge fan of the ACP in Vaqs. They eject cleanly, and you can use old 1911 mags as speedloaders.

Oddly I do have a stash of 45acp ammo from my last agency. If not 45acp I’ll prolly go 44 mag which seems easier to find and cheaper. Kydex would be the only hard part.

[JonInWA]

I don't think that too many of us here on p-f would advocate using a SA revolver for self-defense if there are other more viable defensive weapons available, such as a rifle, semi-automatic pistol, or DA revolver. However, while a SA revolver is obsolete for most defensive purposes, it's hardly useless or un-viable, at least in a limited sense, or if there are no other more effective options available.

Plus they're quite simply fun to shoot and master, and the fundamental skills necessary to master them are certainly transferable. Not every use of a firearm has to necessarily be specifically applicable to a specified or definite training defensive or tactical objective-we're occasionally allowed to have fun, enjoy, and appreciate. Really.

Best, Jon

[Joe in PNG]

I wonder how they would fare in the quest for a good Old Man's Gun.

[Hambo]

I don't think that too many of us here on p-f would advocate using a SA revolver for self-defense if there are other more viable defensive weapons available, such as a rifle, semi-automatic pistol, or DA revolver. However, while a SA revolver is obsolete for most defensive purposes, it's hardly useless or un-viable, at least in a limited sense, or if there are no other more effective options available.

Plus they're quite simply fun to shoot and master, and the fundamental skills necessary to master them are certainly transferable. Not every use of a firearm has to necessarily be specifically applicable to a specified or definite training defensive or tactical objective-we're occasionally allowed to have fun, enjoy, and appreciate. Really.

Best, Jon

The hell you say! ;)


I wonder how they would fare in the quest for a good Old Man's Gun.

My Lipsey's .327 is easy to shoot with .32 H&R and has an old man front sight. It's 34oz though, the same as my 92 with roughly one third of the ammo on board. SA's just get heavier from there.

[Totem Polar]

I wonder how they would fare in the quest for a good Old Man's Gun.

I have toyed with the idea of fitting a round butt grip frame to a 4 5/8" Ruger single-ten—the one that comes with the big fiber optic sights all around, and socking it away against future decades.

Fat sights for old guy eyes, check.
Zero recoil, check.
A trigger that anyone who can still move their fingers can use, check.
Cheap ammo for fixed-income practice, check.
Future-proof legislation-resistant optics (as much as anything can be future-proof, in terms of politics), check.

Sure, it’s only 10 rounds of weenie CCI stinger, and then done, but it beats nothing by a long shot.

JMO.

[SeriousStudent]

https://www.amazon.com/Broad-Sword-Single-Stick-Quarter-Staff-Walking-Stick-Self-Defence-ebook/dp/B0039GL1PK

You’re welcome. ;)

Way ahead of you.

37166

[LSP552]

I’m often found dinking around the outdoors with a 4 5/8 Blackhawk .45. It’s one of my most fun guns. I wouldn’t pick it to start a fight, but I’m not exactly unarmed either.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11867-I-courted-death-Sunday

[Rex G]

I wonder how they would fare in the quest for a good Old Man's Gun.

It takes very little hand strength to operate normal-sized SA sixguns. The shooter has good mechanical advantage when applying leverage to cock the hammer, and the hammer can be cocked by either hand. The recoil characteristics are quite friendly to aging joints. (The tiny mini-revolvers are probably exceptions to all or most or all of these factors.) So, yes, depending upon the individual infirmities, injuries, or disabilities, an SA revolver might be a viable choice for some folks, if they have the arm strength to lift and point the weapon.

In the case of disabled or missing index fingers, using an SA revolver as a “slip gun” might be a choice. The Colt SAA, and some number of the design copies, will operate with the trigger continuously held to the rear-most position, or tied-back, or even completely removed. The hammer is what fires the weapon. The legal eagles, of course, may find plenty wrong with the idea of using a modified weapon. I am simply saying what is mechanically possible.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, when I slept with a carpal-tunnel-syndrome brace on each hand, for a while, I kept an SA revolver by the bed, along with the usual shotgun, because these weapons were most-usable in case there was no time to rip-away the splints.

[JonInWA]

The 4 5/8 in 357 with a 9mm cylinder would be a damn fine everything SA.

Yup. Pretty much for me. Mine is a great combination. A close friend and hunting buddy insists that I specify mine going to him in my will....

I found that with the sights regulated for 158 gr .357 magnum (Hornady XTP/Sellier & Bellot), the same sight regulation works well with 115 gr 9mm (Federal Champion), so I have pretty effortless interchangeability with just a cylinder switch.

Best, Jon

[Bigghoss]

I’m often found dinking around the outdoors with a 4 5/8 Blackhawk .45. It’s one of my most fun guns. I wouldn’t pick it to start a fight, but I’m not exactly unarmed either.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11867-I-courted-death-Sunday

I used to have a stainless one. I wished I'd ordered a convertible instead of impuls buying the one in the case.

[LSP552]

I used to have a stainless one. I wished I'd ordered a convertible instead of impuls buying the one in the case.

Yep! I love the ability to shoot ACP. Now that I don’t have access to free .45 ACP, I mostly use the .45 Colt cylinder.

[Bigghoss]

Yep! I love the ability to shoot ACP. Now that I don’t have access to free .45 ACP, I mostly use the .45 Colt cylinder.

I don't reload yet and .45 Colt is expensive so I sold mine. I had an Italian SAA clone in .357, that one turned out to be a lemon so I got it fixed and sold it off. For whatever reason it also kinda bugs me that the guns are so large but they only hold 6 rounds of .357 because tradition.

[Bigghoss]

Watched a western today and started browsing single actions again. I should watch a modern war movie so I'll be inspired to finish my AR's.

[JAH 3rd]

My recent purchase of a Ruger Bisley 45 long Colt / .45acp 5.5" barrel stainless steel was a direct result of watching too many "Gunsmoke" reruns late at night. It just threw a craving on me that I couldn't overcome.

[Joe in PNG]

I have to admit I was not super fond of the original style sights on my Italian SAA .357.
I'd probably go with a Blackhawk, and put a bird's head grip on it.

[Bigghoss]

My recent purchase of a Ruger Bisley 45 long Colt / .45acp 5.5" barrel stainless steel was a direct result of watching too many "Gunsmoke" reruns late at night. It just threw a craving on me that I couldn't overcome.

Cimarron's Man With No Name revolver is seriously tempting me.
https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/image/900x900/e9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe/c/a/ca9081-manw-nonameconvnosnakesq.jpg

Or any number of Ruger singles.

[sharps54]

Cimarron's Man With No Name revolver is seriously tempting me.
https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/image/900x900/e9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe/c/a/ca9081-manw-nonameconvnosnakesq.jpg

Or any number of Ruger singles.

I bought my dad the similar 1851 Richards-Mason Navy Conversion revolver and it is pretty neat for what it is. I wouldn't shot anything near +P in it though and the sights are an afterthought, worse than the standard SAA fixed sights to me.

If you want to shoot a variety of ammo, possibly hunt with it, shoot longer distances, or run it hard and fast I would look at a Ruger.

[Screwball]

https://i.imgur.com/9KCK3pg.jpg

My .45 Convertible.

Originally was polished. Unless you keep up on it, the polished guns look like ass in short order. Had it bead blasted... and very happy with the final product.

[Bigghoss]

I bought my dad the similar 1851 Richards-Mason Navy Conversion revolver and it is pretty neat for what it is. I wouldn't shot anything near +P in it though and the sights are an afterthought, worse than the standard SAA fixed sights to me.

If you want to shoot a variety of ammo, possibly hunt with it, shoot longer distances, or run it hard and fast I would look at a Ruger.

It would just be a plinker for fun. For an SAA clone Ruger 100% without a doubt. The Ruger Vaquero/Blackhawk are the Glock 19 of single actions.

[JAH 3rd]

I remember 40 years or more when I would go in my LGS and browse the revolvers. If I found a particular model I liked, I would ask if there were others of this model in the back room. If they were, I would kindly ask to see them just to see which one has the prettiest colors in the casehardening.....and that's the one I would purchase. Ahh, those were the days!

[Malamute]

I wonder how they would fare in the quest for a good Old Man's Gun.

I would feel quite comfortable with an SA 44 spl or 45 as a geezer gun, more so than a J frame or 32 as far as effectiveness and ease of shooting, though a K frame with mild wadcutter loads or 38 Short Colt loads would possibly be a bit better than some smaller calibers if ones hands were problematic shooting anything more powerful in DAs.

I mentioned it before, for a given caliber, the SAs have been the easiest on my hands. I tore a ligament in my right thumb in about 1990 shooting one of Mr Linebaughs 500 maximum revolvers. It was a couple years before i could shoot even a 22 right handed, a couple more before I could shoot anything centerfire,and more years before I could shoot heavy loads in centerfire, but I could shoot a 44 or 45 Colt SA about at the same time as a 38 in a Smith K frame. Besides the one handed left handed practice that situation afforded, it helped me appreciate how easy the SA revolvers are to shoot, at least for me.

I have much more confidence in my ability to hit things in sub-optimal conditions with a revolver than any auto Ive used. I'm not advocating SA revolver use for anyone, but my own use indicates I consistently shoot them much better than any automatic pistols. I dont feel poorly armed with one.

FWIW, I prefer the original SA grip contour, I believe in one handed shooting, it gives an index point for the heel of the hand hwen cocking, the birdshead or roundes butt SA grips dont. there just feels like theres a lot missing when I handle them. The Bisley grips havent ever felt comfortable either, for whatever reason. Ive owned a number of them, but never kept any long.