You know you really screwed up when...

[Ancient1]

This almost sounds like the start of a redneck joke: You know you are a redneck when... Well bubba this is my bubba moment. Feel free to add your bubba moments since we can all learn from our own and each others mistakes.

2 days ago I reloaded about 113 rounds, it's normally not a heck of a lot of rounds buttttttt.... Oh man did I really screw up.

Specifics: 45acp, 230 gn FMJ round nose and 230 gn JHP, Using CFE powder, 2 types of primers (Winchester and Federal... I prefer the federal. I think the Winchester messed up my primer feed and I had to fix it). Using a Dillion SDB (square deal B progressive press). I have an electronic scale, caliper and a Lyman 45acp cartridge gauge.

I decided to reload at max powder for my reloads. I goofed. I went to 6.9 gn's (max according to Hodgdon is 6.8 of the CFE). EHHH! not that far off but not what I wanted, especially for a 1911 and also a Shield 45. Second issue which is even a bigger issue with me and that is I did my JHP first and I did not reset my die to change me COL for my FMJ round nose. What that ended up doing was setting my depth on my round nose to about 1.285 which is above the saami spec of 1.275. I like to keep my round nose at about 1.245 to 1.25 and my JHP to around 1.225 to 1.235. I am so far off and with the charge in my rounds over the max I am upset with myself

What to do, what to do. I start pacing and find the bottle of pepto. Now a half bottle of pepto. I wanted to trash my work, the work that I was so happy with a few minutes before. What to do...

I decided to pull every single freaking one instead of shooting them. I honestly thought that my Frankford kinetic bullet extraction tool would break long before I removed 113 bullets. I am now very impressed with that tool. It took forever and my wife
yelling at me for 2 days but it is done and all have been removed. It was so loud I had to wear my shooting muffs. Neighbors who came by asked what I was doing. I told them I was checking for duds. The look was priceless.

My JHP's were proper COL but I wanted to reset the charge so I did pull them too.

Moral of this stupid screw up is: STOP, THINK, CHECK, RECHECK, RECHECK again, ASK YOURSELF WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND RECHECK AGAIN, on each stage. Or you too may have to scare the hell out of your neighbor by letting them think you are testing your ammo for duds.

Just 2 things. Not reseting my COL and goofing on my powder charge.

Jim

[okie john]

What that ended up doing was setting my depth on my round nose to about 1.285 which is above the saami spec of 1.275. I like to keep my round nose at about 1.245 to 1.25 and my JHP to around 1.225 to 1.235. I am so far off and with the charge in my rounds over the max I am upset with myself

The charge was a problem and you did the right thing to fix it. But if I'm reading this correctly, then the FMJ rounds are longer than you wanted. You should have been able to adjust the seating die to the shorter depth and run them all through it again.


Okie John

[Ancient1]

The charge was a problem and you did the right thing to fix it. But if I'm reading this correctly, then the FMJ rounds are longer than you wanted. You should have been able to adjust the seating die to the shorter depth and run them all through it again.


Okie John

Hi Okie John,
Yes they are longer. I will be resetting the die for a COL of about 1.25 on the FMJ on my reload of that brass. The goof on the size was because I was stupid and did not change the setting after I did my JHP reloads. I was not going to run them through with the extra powder in them, so I had to pull the bullets to make sure I had the correct powder level and not just reseat the bullet.

Jim

[willie]

You are using best practice technique. You may or may not know that you can tune take further steps to make certain that the Dillon measure is throwing your selected load. Throw 10 charges in the scale pan and weigh them and divide by 10. If the average hits your selected load, that's great. If not, adjust. There's nothing wrong with an electronic powder scale. However, you should have an older balance type to verify readings.

As we all are aware, as the bullet is seated deeper, pressure increases. The longer oal in the first batch would have decreased pressure slightly. Yes, you followed correct procedure. Had you not in this instance, the extra .1 grain would not have been an issue. I'm talking shop but not saying you should have done differently. To some extent oal numbers are nominal meaning that small variations are insignificant. Adjust to accommodate pistol or pistols used.

The biggest problem that you might have is insufficient grip or bullet pull. Desired case tension on the bullet prevents setback which can occur during round's trip from mag to chamber. Take one loaded round and chamber it. Measure and repeat. You may see setback. Four factors affect case's grab on the bullet. They are case wall thickness, bullet diameter, case expander diameter, and taper crimp die setting. A simple solution if you have issues is using cast bullets and specifying .452 diameter. Too, you will notice that some case brands and even some lots within brands vary.

If I have said anything of value, perhaps the most significant is suggesting that you have and use a traditional balance type scale to verify the other's readings. Also there is a technique for using the electronic one. Unless you verify powder measure settings and their output, then you really do not know the exact charge being dumped in your cases. When using powders with faster burning rates like Bullseye, Win 231, Red Dot, and others, having this information is important.

[GuanoLoco]

For jacketed bullets I'd suggest investing in a collet bullet puller. These don't really work for polymer-coated bullets though.

You think 113 bullets is bad? Try making a mistake with a Mark 7 / 1050 combination. Like, pulling off the failsafe rod to check powder drop, then forgetting to re-attach it, then loading a few hundred rounds without powder. Then dumping those squib loads into a container of good loads. Oh yea, polymer-coated bullets, so only an inertial puller will do.

I bet I have THOUSANDS of rounds that need to be pulled that I've accumulated over the years - and zero motivation to pull them.

[mmc45414]

You think 113 bullets is bad? Try making a mistake with a Mark 7 / 1050 combination. Like, pulling off the failsafe rod to check powder drop, then forgetting to re-attach it, then loading a few hundred rounds without powder. Then dumping those squib loads into a container of good loads.
To err is human, to REALLY screw up requires a 1050 connected to a Mark 7!! :)

My story is much more civilian, but way back before the earth cooled, all I had was a Rockchucker. I loaded a "huge" quantity of like 350 .357 rounds using some bullets that were apparently, based on the position of their crimp groove, 38 Special specific, and they were flat out too long to fit in my Security Six or my dad's Python. Fortunately they fit in a friend's L-Frame (I think...) and we just took turns blasting at cans on the backstop.


I bet I have THOUSANDS of rounds that need to be pulled that I've accumulated over the years - and zero motivation to pull them.
Maybe someday you will have a young protegee who might want to for a share of the components :)

[LittleLebowski]

For jacketed bullets I'd suggest investing in a collet bullet puller. These don't really work for polymer-coated bullets though.

You think 113 bullets is bad? Try making a mistake with a Mark 7 / 1050 combination. Like, pulling off the failsafe rod to check powder drop, then forgetting to re-attach it, then loading a few hundred rounds without powder. Then dumping those squib loads into a container of good loads. Oh yea, polymer-coated bullets, so only an inertial puller will do.

I bet I have THOUSANDS of rounds that need to be pulled that I've accumulated over the years - and zero motivation to pull them.

Fuuuuck that. I've got a handful or two of bad loads that I keep meaning to pull...maybe next year.

[GuanoLoco]

To err is human, to REALLY screw up requires a 1050 connected to a Mark 7!! :)

My story is much more civilian, but way back before the earth cooled, all I had was a Rockchucker. I loaded a "huge" quantity of like 350 .357 rounds using some bullets that were apparently, based on the position of their crimp groove, 38 Special specific, and they were flat out too long to fit in my Security Six or my dad's Python. Fortunately they fit in a friend's L-Frame (I think...) and we just took turns blasting at cans on the backstop.


Maybe someday you will have a young protegee who might want to for a share of the components :)

I'd gladly GIVE them all to anyone willing to pull them. Shipping isn't really an option.

[deputyG23]

36865
Or hear a pop instead of a bang..forgot the WST in that case.

[mmc45414]

forgot the WST in that case.
Would seem like that got at least a little in it, that woulda been an ambitious primer :)

[deputyG23]

Would seem like that got at least a little in it, that woulda been an ambitious primer :)
Yep. Most likely. I don't reload anymore when tired or even a little distracted since that event. Just glad that it wasn't a double charge.

[Ancient1]

You are using best practice technique. You may or may not know that you can tune take further steps to make certain that the Dillon measure is throwing your selected load. Throw 10 charges in the scale pan and weigh them and divide by 10. If the average hits your selected load, that's great. If not, adjust. There's nothing wrong with an electronic powder scale. However, you should have an older balance type to verify readings.

As we all are aware, as the bullet is seated deeper, pressure increases. The longer oal in the first batch would have decreased pressure slightly. Yes, you followed correct procedure. Had you not in this instance, the extra .1 grain would not have been an issue. I'm talking shop but not saying you should have done differently. To some extent oal numbers are nominal meaning that small variations are insignificant. Adjust to accommodate pistol or pistols used.

The biggest problem that you might have is insufficient grip or bullet pull. Desired case tension on the bullet prevents setback which can occur during round's trip from mag to chamber. Take one loaded round and chamber it. Measure and repeat. You may see setback. Four factors affect case's grab on the bullet. They are case wall thickness, bullet diameter, case expander diameter, and taper crimp die setting. A simple solution if you have issues is using cast bullets and specifying .452 diameter. Too, you will notice that some case brands and even some lots within brands vary.

If I have said anything of value, perhaps the most significant is suggesting that you have and use a traditional balance type scale to verify the other's readings. Also there is a technique for using the electronic one. Unless you verify powder measure settings and their output, then you really do not know the exact charge being dumped in your cases. When using powders with faster burning rates like Bullseye, Win 231, Red Dot, and others, having this information is important.



Hi Willie,
Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I know about less depth of my original rounds would probably negate my powder overcharge, but I really didn't want my over all length to be over saami specs and I didn't want to complicate with an over charge, even if it was so small. I love manual scales and I use to have one. I am thinking of getting another one some day. Currently my electronic scale gets a validated calibration with a dept of ag 50 gram weight several times during a 100 round run of reloads. Initially I load my powder into my dispenser and then proceed to calibrate my scale several times as the scale adjusts to temperature and being powered up. Once the scale is stabilized and calibration does not drift even .000gns, I then check my dispenser, over and over and over for about 20 to 30 rounds of dumping powder and verifying it doesn't vary more than .2 grains between dumps. They become consistent around 15 rounds, but I want to double that. Then about every 15 to 30 rounds I will check on my scale. I have a strong light on a goose neck that is pointed down into my round after loading my charge to verify a rough visual on every single round to make sure it is where it should be. This is mostly to make sure no double charge or low or zero charge. This is a freaking time consuming job but that's ok. I kind of enjoy all this being exact stuff and a good prize on the side is I don't blow up my gun or my hand. I also Chrono my rounds every few trips to the range as another check.

I really like the 10 round average to see it is consistent. My father taught me to do that but I forgot that some time after I started reloading again. Thanks for reminding me. I have a very cool metering knob on my Dillion SDB that is calibrated and lets me know if my setting slips, which it doesn't with that knob due to the positive click, but I do watch it. My concern is the powder drop from the powder tube dropping without sticking. I give it a blow job with some compressed air once in awhile as I do my primer seating area to keep dust and residual powder from messing things up and making them stick.

On my next powder buy I will be going from my usual CFE pistol to TiteGroup. I will have to change everything about my settings and re-chrono every round for several hundred rounds. Actually that sounds like fun. I reload with bullets from Everglades ammo. FMJ round nose and JHP's both 230 gn rounds. The orders I have purchased from them have been pretty close in consistency in size and weight and seat well and they are very reasonable in price. Just under 15 cents per bullet for the JHP and just under 14 cents for the FMJ round nose. I collect my own brass that I shoot and sometimes a few more that look good which reduces my cost to reload. I buy 2K bullets at a time to keep the price down. I buy my powder local to avoid hazmat charges since I like fresh powder and primers, I don't buy those in bulk. It's just a personal thing. I also dump my powder back into the original container after a reload session to keep my powder as fresh as possible and as consistent as possible.

Like I said, I hate screw ups and I really screwed up on those 113 rounds.

I get to spend the next few hours taking my pre-cleaned brass and popping the primers and putting the brass back into my tumbler for my post-cleaning. Then in a few days I get reload about 250 rounds. I have a final sighting on my new red dot at the range next week. I will be having lots of fun.

Now that I bored everyone, I hope you have a great day.

Jim

[Ancient1]

36865
Or hear a pop instead of a bang..forgot the WST in that case.

Ouch DeputyG23,

Did that really happen to you? If so I am so sorry that happened. Not a fun day, but it could have been a double charge instead... That's why I shine a light into each case after dropping my charge. It's also the reason I hate to use other peoples reloads or to buy commercial rounds. I really like to see the charge each time. Maybe I should change my name to TheParanoidAncient1. I don't like guns that go pop or boom, I like bullets that go boom.

Jim

[Ancient1]

Yep. Most likely. I don't reload anymore when tired or even a little distracted since that event. Just glad that it wasn't a double charge.

Hi Deputy again, I hate to see someone give up on reloads. They are so much fun for real. I do them in a nice quiet place with no distractions like my garage. My wife doesn't bother me there and I just move my car out in the driveway to block the view from the neighbors and concentrate on one bullet at a time. Now for a guy who hated building model airplanes when I was a kid, who'd a thunk I'd get a charge out of fine details of reloading and shooting. But I do. Just be deliberate and leave the world behind.

Jim

[deputyG23]

Hi Deputy again, I hate to see someone give up on reloads. They are so much fun for real. I do them in a nice quiet place with no distractions like my garage. My wife doesn't bother me there and I just move my car out in the driveway to block the view from the neighbors and concentrate on one bullet at a time. Now for a guy who hated building model airplanes when I was a kid, who'd a thunk I'd get a charge out of fine details of reloading and shooting. But I do. Just be deliberate and leave the world behind.

Jim

I have not given up. Loaded 100 .38 practice rounds this PM. I just don’t do it unless I can devote my undivided attention to what I am doing. The flashlight thing happens with me now as well.
Hope to go shooting in a couple of weeks after my second cataract surgery this coming Wednesday.

[Ancient1]

I have not given up. Loaded 100 .38 practice rounds this PM. I just don’t do it unless I can devote my undivided attention to what I am doing. The flashlight thing happens with me now as well.
Hope to go shooting in a couple of weeks after my second cataract surgery this coming Wednesday.

Hi DeputyG23,
Sorry to hear about the cats in the eye. I don't have them yet but my vision has degraded my in my old age. That's why I am in the process switching to red dots. Just had them installed on my primary (colt combat commander 45) and I am leaving my shield with irons till I get fully adjusted. The shield is my backup. So far I love the dots. Next trip to the range is to sight them in. I would have done that on my last trip but my armorer goofed and didn't locktite the mounting screws. This week I will complete the sighting adjustments at 15 yds. Not shooting for distance. later I will do final sighting adjustments at 10 yds. My commander and shield are for carry defense and I don't plan on defending from a long distance. 10 yards should be a perfect defense range for me.

Best of luck with the surgery.

Jim

[willie]

Hi Willie,
Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I know about less depth of my original rounds would probably negate my powder overcharge, but I really didn't want my over all length to be over saami specs and I didn't want to complicate with an over charge, even if it was so small. I love manual scales and I use to have one. I am thinking of getting another one some day. Currently my electronic scale gets a validated calibration with a dept of ag 50 gram weight several times during a 100 round run of reloads. Initially I load my powder into my dispenser and then proceed to calibrate my scale several times as the scale adjusts to temperature and being powered up. Once the scale is stabilized and calibration does not drift even .000gns, I then check my dispenser, over and over and over for about 20 to 30 rounds of dumping powder and verifying it doesn't vary more than .2 grains between dumps. They become consistent around 15 rounds, but I want to double that. Then about every 15 to 30 rounds I will check on my scale. I have a strong light on a goose neck that is pointed down into my round after loading my charge to verify a rough visual on every single round to make sure it is where it should be. This is mostly to make sure no double charge or low or zero charge. This is a freaking time consuming job but that's ok. I kind of enjoy all this being exact stuff and a good prize on the side is I don't blow up my gun or my hand. I also Chrono my rounds every few trips to the range as another check.

I really like the 10 round average to see it is consistent. My father taught me to do that but I forgot that some time after I started reloading again. Thanks for reminding me. I have a very cool metering knob on my Dillion SDB that is calibrated and lets me know if my setting slips, which it doesn't with that knob due to the positive click, but I do watch it. My concern is the powder drop from the powder tube dropping without sticking. I give it a blow job with some compressed air once in awhile as I do my primer seating area to keep dust and residual powder from messing things up and making them stick.

On my next powder buy I will be going from my usual CFE pistol to TiteGroup. I will have to change everything about my settings and re-chrono every round for several hundred rounds. Actually that sounds like fun. I reload with bullets from Everglades ammo. FMJ round nose and JHP's both 230 gn rounds. The orders I have purchased from them have been pretty close in consistency in size and weight and seat well and they are very reasonable in price. Just under 15 cents per bullet for the JHP and just under 14 cents for the FMJ round nose. I collect my own brass that I shoot and sometimes a few more that look good which reduces my cost to reload. I buy 2K bullets at a time to keep the price down. I buy my powder local to avoid hazmat charges since I like fresh powder and primers, I don't buy those in bulk. It's just a personal thing. I also dump my powder back into the original container after a reload session to keep my powder as fresh as possible and as consistent as possible.

Like I said, I hate screw ups and I really screwed up on those 113 rounds.

I get to spend the next few hours taking my pre-cleaned brass and popping the primers and putting the brass back into my tumbler for my post-cleaning. Then in a few days I get reload about 250 rounds. I have a final sighting on my new red dot at the range next week. I will be having lots of fun.

Now that I bored everyone, I hope you have a great day.

Jim;

You will save much time by not chronographing several hundred rounds.
Consult a manual, select a starting point, and shoot to test for an accuracy load. Chrono it. The big chrono effort might make sense if you were searching for a precision rifle load. But you are not. You are finding a suitable load for a handgun that will be fired off hand between 7 and 50 yards. If checking the accuracy load shows shows velocity variations with high standard deviations, you can tune further by varying charge and then chronographing. You are practicing good technique; for me that amount of time spent with a chrongraph would be an onerous task with no return. To save more time, you could resize and decap in same operation and then clean cases. Dirty cases will not damage carbide insert in sizing die. Or you can use a single stage press and a specialty decap die for the decaping operation and avoid getting crud in the progressive press' mechanism. Then you might run cases through from start to finish.