Step-son is considering joining the military

[jamautry]

As the title states my step-son is considering joining the military straight out of high school, specifically the Air Force.

A little background on the situation. I have never served in the military but my wife served in the Air Force. She has always encouraged the children to go to college and then join the military if they wanted to. My step-son however has continued to under perform in school and needs to mature up considerably before he will do well in college. He is very intelligent and his Freshmen thru Juniour year performed well in school for the most part. He had a 3.9 GPA. His senior year his grade plummeted on all of the college level courses because the teachers would not spoon feed him the info and held him accountable for late work. He know routinely gets D's. He applied to and was accepted into all of his colleges and received scholarships for all of them as well, however all of those decisions were based on his transcript that didn't include his Senior year. Beyond school he is always late, he has no interest in driving, he lacks motivation, addicted to video games, etc in general he has seemed to have reverted to a 13 year old in an 18 year old body. We have talked to him about his future and laid things out and told him if he doesn't change he will waste his talents and we are not going to stand for a man child living with us. He seems genuinely interested in joining the Air Force which his Mom and I agree would be a great thing for him. He has taken his ASVAB and scored an 81 on it. In addition he is athletic and does work hard in physical activities so I am not worried about the physical aspects of miltary life for him. We are taking him to a recruiter on Wednesday, so my question is this:

For all of those who have served if you were starting over as an 18 year old what would you look out for, ask for, etc if talking to the recruiter? What steps would you take to make the experience the best you could?

Thanks everybody in advance.

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[rjohnson4405]

I did not serve, but my brother does (Navy EOD) and several other family members have joined recently.

The only thing I would caution is he needs to consider if he would be happy in ANY job in the military. I know sailors with college degrees scraping paint off ships because they had the wrong attitude and thought they were special. They weren't special and chipping paint is probably good for them to grow up and learn. But that is a real possibility. They own you, you don't really have a say.

My brother put years in on a ship in the middle of nowhere before they let him try out for something the recruiter had promised from the beginning. He had to excel had the shitty job for 4 years to get recommended for the job he really wanted.

[Cypher]

I served in the Army. I did artillery and medical admin. One of the biggest mistakes I made in my life was turning down a job offer to be my own replacement at Evans Hospital on Ft. Carson.

The biggest thing I would suggest is that your stepson make sure they put him in a career specialty that translates to an actual civilian job. If he goes into a specialty that requires a clearance it can open employment doors in the civilian world too.

[BehindBlueI's]

For all of those who have served if you were starting over as an 18 year old what would you look out for, ask for, etc if talking to the recruiter? What steps would you take to make the experience the best you could?

Thanks everybody in advance.

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I joined the Army right out of high school. I was bored to death with school, couldn't imagine going to college for another 4 years of sitting at a desk and really had no idea what I wanted to do with my life long term. The local economy was almost entirely factory work or construction.

I had a lot of people telling me to pick a career in the military that would translate over into the civilian world. I said "fuck that, I want to do something I'll never get a chance to do again." I've never regretted it. I got to blow things up, drive a tank, blow things up, learn how to set booby traps, blow things up, shoot big guns, and blow things up. Plus, they let me blow things up.

The military won't let you starve. They'll house you. They'll get you Motrin...I mean they'll get you medical care. It's perfect for people with no to limited life skills, immature teens, and people who have no idea what they want out of life. So, my advise is for him to figure out his long term goals and focus on the best path to get there. Does he want to travel? Ask about guaranteed duty assignment. Treat the military as an apprenticeship? Figure out what jobs actually translate over (because, frankly, many don't). Maximize money for college? See if there are bonuses for certain jobs in certain branches. Get promoted and maybe make a career of it? Shortage MOS's tend to get promoted faster, but see what current promotion points are in the various jobs. Shop your options. If he wants Air Force, fine, but at least talk to the other recruiters.

[rcbusmc24]

It sounds like he has a lack of motivation for some reason and the way he is currently acting if it continued would honestly make him a drain on any unit he is assigned to... Its not just about PT. Let him know that contrary to what the public believes, the .mil is not where lackluster youth go to figure themselves out. That time is past... If he does not perform then they will send him out the door with a quickness, most likely with a discharge type that doesnt look good on future applications elsewhere... If he wants to work and perform.... then welcome to the service, glad to have you. We are having trouble meeting recruiting goals...mostly due to the above mentioned issues.

[jamautry]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate you taken the time to answer. Keep them coming.

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[vcdgrips]

FWIW. I have not served. I have had some experience with boys in my Troop going to the military direct from high school.

Your stepson does not sound like he is ready to go to college. The burning question in my mind is why? The slide from 3.9 to D's, IMHO, is more than Sr college prep classes and not turning work in on time. Not trying to be the bearer of DOOM/GLOOM, those schools that accepted him and awarded scholarships based on the six semester transcript are going to want to see the Sr year grades. Some "Senioritis" is expected. Dropping from 3.9 to sub 3.0 I presume with D's may cause them to reassess admission and/or scholarship awards.

If he is drug free, the military sounds like a viable option. Air Force and Coast Guard would be the two I would look at if it were me based what you have said. The 81 ASVAB is well over their respective minimums. I would drug test him before we go to a recruiter. I am deeply troubled by the grade drop and would really want to know why. The recruiters may want to know why as well.

If it were my son:

he would sign NOTHING on the first visit.

he would angle for a job that has a signing bonus.

he would get everything in WRITING. If it is not in writing, it does not exist.

If he signs up, we would shoot for a depart date as close to graduation as possible so as to avoid anything that might derail the plan.

I would like for him to be recruited by someone we liked and trusted consistent with my knowledge that it his/her job to recruit. If I/we got a bad feeling about a particular recruiter, we would go elsewhere and talk with somebody else.

Best of luck.

[jamautry]

It sounds like he has a lack of motivation for some reason and the way he is currently acting if it continued would honestly make him a drain on any unit he is assigned to... Its not just about PT. Let him know that contrary to what the public believes, the .mil is not where lackluster youth go to figure themselves out. That time is past... If he does not perform then they will send him out the door with a quickness, most likely with a discharge type that doesnt look good on future applications elsewhere... If he wants to work and perform.... then welcome to the service, glad to have you. We are having trouble meeting recruiting goals...mostly due to the above mentioned issues.I hear where you are coming from. I will say that when he is told do something he will do it and do it well, the problem is he is not performing well under his own self discipline. This is the issue with college. When supervised he does well so I don't believe he will be a drain on a unit. What I am hoping for as he gets promoted and is given added responsibility he his self discipline will grow.

I will add he has had a part time job after school for the past year and has performed well at it. He also does not get into any trouble at school or home with the exception of being late.

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[Gray01]

I joined the Army right out of high school. I was bored to death with school, couldn't imagine going to college for another 4 years of sitting at a desk...

I've never regretted it. Plus, they let me blow things up.

Quite similar

Joined while IN high school; was a "double-volunteer". Was raised in the post-WWII by father and uncles and almost all contemporary adult men who were all WWII veterans, and identified Shinola from 100 yards. And were unabashedly willing to make the distinction. When I was in single digits I played with a type 99 Arisaka that my uncle "took" from the man who shot at him.

I received much more from my service than I contributed, and I highly encourage a return to the DI Board of Education for all prospective youth.

But educate and remind him: the best men's names are in gardens of stone.

Regarding USAF to the OP, if he is "athletic", investigate Combat Control and ParaRescue (PJ's). Them guys are harder than woodpecker lips.

[TGS]

College sounds like a terrible idea for him right now.

Sounds like .mil is the way to go. If I could have done it over again, I think I probably would have tried Air Force. USMC was not a great match for me.

If he's smart, he should be able to get slotted into a good MOS. If he lacks any aspirations or motivations for specific career fields, then try to get an MOS with a TS clearance, like Intel or a higher-end comms MOS. There's a good career path out of the military with that even as enlisted, and if he decides to not do intel after the military then the skills still translate over very well to many other career fields in business while also looking shit-hot on a resume. The TS clearance itself is worth about $100k to employers on the outside, so he'll be very attractive for private sector jobs requiring a TS compared to more qualified individuals that lack a clearance. Some of the communicator jobs are very skilled and in-demand on the outside, as well. On a joint training exercise between my agency and a Marine FAST Platoon, our comms unit literally handed a Marine radio guy an application on the spot for a 6-figure job because he happened to be qual'd on all the systems we use, was getting out in 9 months, and we literally can't find enough qualified people for that unit due to how competitive the pay is between the various agencies hiring such people; we recently lost our key player, and the program is a shit-show now.

Consider that the Army probably has more places for him to go/available jobs, but the Air Force tends to treat people better. With that, there's some "Dream" careers that you have to rotate out of in the Air Force. For instance, K9 handlers. You do one tour and you're done, and never have a dog again. In the Army, you're a K9 handler until you promote out of being a handler, and then you manage handlers (or someone else). Probably the biggest gripe from USAF K9 handlers I work with. I know that's just one job, but it's an aspect to look into if some job catches his eye.

In the end, it's only 4 years. Yeah, it can suck if you fuck up or just end up on the wrong side of the system for reasons outside your control, but fuck it. He can literally do anything short of a felony and still do whatever he wants in life afterwards.

[UNM1136]

Biggest mistake in my life was listening to my parents (both prior service) who insisted I go to college before going into the military so I could go in as an officer. I had a guaranteed spot on an A Detachment as an 18D in the Reserves (you do the math) if I enlisted and passed the training. REP63 meant I essentially had an 18 X-ray pipeline more than a decade before the 18 X-ray program existed, and a detachment XO getting me ready for the Q Course.. One of the two teams open to me was a HALO team. Went to college. Military never happened. It would have been nothing to take 2 years off, do the Q, and go to college. I would have also had a reserve gig providing a paycheck, and the GI Bill, reducing the loans I needed to take out for an essentially useless degree.

That said, some research needs to be done, but IIRC an 81 on the ASVAB could severely limit the potential jobs available to him in the military. A study guide and re-test should be in order.

My daughter was an honors student in high school who won scholarships for college. She is now preparing to drop out of college, losing the student job she has. I am hoping she will take my advice and join the local Guard unit.

pat

[jamautry]

Biggest mistake in my life was listening to my parents (both prior service) who insisted I go to college before going into the military so I could go in as an officer. I had a guaranteed spot on an A Detachment as an 18D in the Reserves (you do the math) if I enlisted and passed the training. REP63 meant I essentially had an 18 X-ray pipeline more than a decade before the 18 X-ray program existed, and a detachment XO getting me ready for the Q Course.. One of the two teams open to me was a HALO team. Went to college. Military never happened. It would have been nothing to take 2 years off, do the Q, and go to college. I would have also had a reserve gig providing a paycheck, and the GI Bill, reducing the loans I needed to take out for an essentially useless degree.

That said, some research needs to be done, but IIRC an 81 on the ASVAB could severely limit the potential jobs available to him in the military. A study guide and re-test should be in order.

My daughter was an honors student in high school who won scholarships for college. She is now preparing to drop out of college, losing the student job she has. I am hoping she will take my advice and join the local Guard unit.

patAs for the ASVAB that is the raw score not the net score they use for MOS. By all accounts from the recruiters at the school that is a very high score, top 99 percentile score.

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[Shoresy]

I had a lot of people telling me to pick a career in the military that would translate over into the civilian world. I said "fuck that, I want to do something I'll never get a chance to do again." I've never regretted it. I got to blow things up, drive a tank, blow things up, learn how to set booby traps, blow things up, shoot big guns, and blow things up. Plus, they let me blow things up.

This. Developing skills before leaving whichever service is valuable, but if I could do what I did outside of the military... I would have done it outside of the military. I signed because I wanted to do things I couldn't do anywhere else.

Most of the "skills" jobs don't translate as well as most people expect, and most of the people I know whose military experience *directly* led to post-service employment went to work on the programs they were working when they were in (e.g. intel folks who went to work for DIA/NASIC/NGIC/etc, many of whom had worked at DIA/NASIC/NGIC while in uniform). If you're trying to build skills to go somewhere else, the value of experience may fall off quickly to the tangential skills/hobbies/etc (e.g. a senior Civil Affairs NCO I worked with had a strong talent for Java/Python/etc and went on to do nothing with CA and everything to do with software development). Not a reason to stay away from anything, just something to be aware of.

Just my two pesos - he should do what he wants to do in whatever service and keep an eye out for marketable skills and build them as they come.

"If it's not in writing it doesn't exist" - truth.

I'll just end my post with this one important piece of advice - he doesn't have a hair on his ass if he doesn't walk into the ARMY recruiters office and demand 12B... :cool:

[ranger]

Make sure that the family and son understand that we are a Nation at war and probably will continue to be in some form of conflict for a long time - in other words, do not be surprised if he finishes training and deploys.

If he joins and serves for a few years, he will have a better life perspective plus he should be able to knock out some college classes even while serving if he is motivated.

[UNM1136]

As for the ASVAB that is the raw score not the net score they use for MOS. By all accounts from the recruiters at the school that is a very high score, top 99 percentile score.

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Ok. Just looked it up, and you seem to be partially right. Things have changed since I took it 30 years ago. Recruiters get paid to lie... Based on a quick Google search the net score is a percentile score. So an 81 is better than or equal to 81% of the population, not 99%. Of course I am not a recruiter, nor an administrator of the test. I am sufficiently outside my lane, so I will refrain from posting more.

Good luck to you and your stepson...

pat

[jamautry]

Ok. Just looked it up, and you seem to be partially right. Things have changed since I took it 30 years ago. Recruiters get paid to lie... Based on a quick Google search the net score is a percentile score. So an 81 is better than or equal to 81% of the population, not 99%. Of course I am not a recruiter, nor an administrator of the test. I am sufficiently outside my lane, so I will refrain from posting more.

Good luck to you and your stepson...

patYes, you are correct. I was mistaken, all his scores were in the 99th percentile except for mechanical aptitude which was a 24% which brought the total score to 81%

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[Nephrology]

As a slight aside, it also is worth considering the possibility that your step son is suffering from depression. To go from a high achieving student to getting Ds over the course of 1 year is pretty striking.

I wouldn't be asking this if he was going out and partying, etc, but it sounds like (and I may be wrong) he has become very reclusive/withdrawn, which is not an uncommon sign of depression.. Does he sleep a lot/stay in his room/avoid social contact/etc?

Not saying he couldn't just be a lazy teenager, but a change like that seems sudden and out of character. Unlike conventional wisdom may have you believe, depression is not about being "sad," and can look very different from person to person. I am probably wrong, but if this is the case, it is unlikely the military would help him out very much.

[jamautry]

As a slight aside, it also is worth considering the possibility that your step son is suffering from depression. To go from a high achieving student to getting Ds over the course of 1 year is pretty striking.

I wouldn't be asking this if he was going out and partying, etc, but it sounds like (and I may be wrong) he has become very reclusive/withdrawn, which is not an uncommon sign of depression.. Does he sleep a lot/stay in his room/avoid social contact/etc?

Not saying he couldn't just be a lazy teenager, but a change like that seems sudden and out of character. Unlike conventional wisdom may have you believe, depression is not about being "sad," and can look very different from person to person. I am probably wrong, but if this is the case, it is unlikely the military would help him out very much.We had the same concern but he is happy and hangs out with his friends and goes to work and is very social there and at school. He just isn't self motivated and doesn't do well in the classes that require self motivation.

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[BehindBlueI's]

We had the same concern but he is happy and hangs out with his friends and goes to work and is very social there and at school. He just isn't self motivated and doesn't do well in the classes that require self motivation.

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I might be projecting a bit, but it sounds like he's just bored with school. I was so tired of school my senior year I looked into getting my GED so I could leave for the Army earlier.

[Gray01]

I might be projecting a bit, but it sounds like he's just bored with school. I was so tired of school my senior year.

I do not remember anything from HS that I have needed or used in the last 50+ years.

[KeeFus]

Little backstory...I was a US Army MP and my wife was a Marine MP...both enlisted. You can envision the infighting between the two branches. :rolleyes:

My stepson is highly intelligent but high school bored him to tears. His mom wanted him to go to college and do ROTC and become an officer. When I heard those conversations I could see in body language he was only participating because he felt like he was letting his mom down. I had a talk with him and told him to do what he wanted...but he wasn’t going to sit his ass at the house while he made up his mind. Job, college, or military...his decision.

He started going to the recruiter and looked at various MOS’s. We talked about MP, K9 handler, grunt stuff, etc. His ASVAB was high so the recruiter threw 25 Sierra at him complete with a $25,000.00 bonus. Being a product of the late 80’s I called BS and went with him to the recruiter to settle this bonus thing. Sure enough, the Army was shelling out big money for that MOS. (Where the hell was that money in 1989?!)

He’s a gamer and is all into computers. It was a fit. The school itself, including BCT, was almost a year long. He was top in his class and was offered the 1Chuck school. He initially wanted it but they were going to sideline him for another 3 months before that school started. He decided against it and is now assigned to an infantry division. He loves it, he’s involved with it, and we see a difference in him. He’s happy.

As for me, I should have gone Infantry, Cav Scout, or something else very similar in combat arms. My time as an MP was uneventful. Guarding nukes is like watching paint dry...then flake off. I learned to play spades though, so I have that. My only experience with law enforcement duties was my last nine months in at White Sands, NM...which is what I thought I would be doing when I enlisted. Lesson learned.

[Nephrology]

We had the same concern but he is happy and hangs out with his friends and goes to work and is very social there and at school. He just isn't self motivated and doesn't do well in the classes that require self motivation.

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Glad you at least considered it - it often isn't even a 2nd thought.

[revchuck38]

My son was nowhere near ready for college when he graduated high school - shoot, he barely graduated high school. I'm an Army vet with 12 years active duty, then another 24 in the RC including being back on active duty from 2003-2008, retired at age 60. I made clear to him that he was going into the military after high school, and didn't care if it was a two-year enlistment in the USAF as a cook, as long as he went in. It wasn't a hard sell TBH. He enlisted in the Army as a Cav Scout and started OSUT in August 2001. Talk about timing...

He ETS'd in 2005 and started college soon after. He couldn't stand the kids in class right out of high school - they spent most of their time in class on FB or gaming. His fellow vets pretty much had the same opinion. His profs liked vets because they knew how to work and be on time and generally take their studies seriously.

If your son goes in with his head on straight he can get a lot out of military service. If he gets out after one enlistment, he'll have the GI Bill for college. If he wants to stay in the Reserve Component, he can often get his tuition paid that way and still get his full GI Bill.

I strongly recommend that he do it.

[FNFAN]

Son says they're down approx. 280 Apache pilots and more for each of the other airframes. He started in 120mm mortars and went through the Warrant Officer Aviator program. Has been a great career for him. Lotsa motivation needed to get through flight school though!

[ranger]

Son says they're down approx. 280 Apache pilots and more for each of the other airframes. He started in 120mm mortars and went through the Warrant Officer Aviator program. Has been a great career for him. Lotsa motivation needed to get through flight school though!

My Army Aviator friend is saying same thing about shortage of pilots.

[FNFAN]

My Army Aviator friend is saying same thing about shortage of pilots.

Yes, they've made some rather odd decisions on retention pay offers the last few years -between that and the lack of replacement equipment and parts, a lot of the guys in the W2 & W3 stream seem to be getting lured away by the airlines. I was surprised that they'd court rotor pilots but they are. Son will be going for a nurse-anesthesiology (sp) job post Army.

[Alembic]

" He is very intelligent and his Freshmen thru Juniour year performed well in school for the most part. He had a 3.9 GPA. His senior year his grade plummeted.. He now routinely gets D's, he is always late, he has no interest in driving, he lacks motivation, addicted to video games, etc in general he has seemed to have reverted to a 13 year old"

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He's not depressed, he's smoking weed. Lazy man's drug.

[jamautry]

Thanks everyone

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[Yung]

I didn't enlist until I was 22. I had some college credit, decided on one MOS I wanted with four alternates, bought and read my relevant branch's guide to boot camp by Michael Volkin, and fulfilled the requirements to start off as an E-3. There isn't much I would have done differently other than getting into enough shape to at least pass, if not max out, a PT test before depping in.

Frankly, in many ways I look at military enlistment the same way as college, but one way is that it probably isn't the best thing to do right out of high school, especially if his grades and motivation are reflecting that he's not really wanting or deserving either one as he is right now. I think most 18-year-olds should probably just work a full-time job for a year or so, however menial, while either moving out with roommates or staying at home and chipping in however much you see fit for bills and other expenses. If they can't hold that down, it's probably not a good idea to enlisting and risk all the tangible and intangible consequences that come by not making it past initial entry training.

Basic and tech school are mostly mental rather than physical ordeals, and while the cadre of drill/technical sergeants/instructors will simultaneously break down and reinforce a recruit's ability to self-discipline, as well as put up with being verbally abused and subjected to collective punishment without the ability to respond, refuse, or retaliate, I think it is a common misconception to believe that they can impart these elements where they did not exist before.

I would suggest your stepson consider thinking about, and putting in writing, how he visualizes his future (career/education/physical and mental health/intimate relationships/family/use of substances/etc): both his ideal outcome if he does everything right and the worst-case scenario if he continues doing things wrong. It is very difficult, even when done poorly, but it may make a world of difference that unspoken or even spoken thoughts don't seem to achieve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoGdMpdZXzs

[willie]

I am a retired teacher and have worked with many kids with this boy's profile. I think that he is deflecting attention away from himself in the present by discussing what he might do in the future. If he is comfortable with his behavior, then he is unlikely to change. The video games and his bed have become his refuge.

[Alpha Sierra]

Beyond school he is always late, he has no interest in driving, he lacks motivation, addicted to video games, etc in general he has seemed to have reverted to a 13 year old in an 18 year old body.


I will say that when he is told do something he will do it and do it well, the problem is he is not performing well under his own self discipline.

The two things above are HUGE red flags for me. You seem to be under the impression that military personnel are always told what to do and are always under direct supervision.

I'm here to tell you that is not the case and that individual initiative and the ability to take your direct superior's intent and turn that into execution are extremely important.

Even junior enlisted personnel cannot be directly supervised at all times and they need to be able to not only take direct orders but also understand that certain standards are to be met at all times whether you are being told to or not, or whether someone is watching you or not.


It sounds like he has a lack of motivation for some reason and the way he is currently acting if it continued would honestly make him a drain on any unit he is assigned to... Its not just about PT. Let him know that contrary to what the public believes, the .mil is not where lackluster youth go to figure themselves out. That time is past... If he does not perform then they will send him out the door with a quickness, most likely with a discharge type that doesnt look good on future applications elsewhere... If he wants to work and perform.... then welcome to the service, glad to have you. We are having trouble meeting recruiting goals...mostly due to the above mentioned issues.

I agree with the above and I will say that you and your wife should be prepared for the possibility that he might come home early with a general (or worse) discharge.

For the sake of disclosure my entry into the service was through USNA and that is one environment where non-hard chargers perish hard and quick. Also, as a division officer (equivalent to platoon leader), the least favorite task of my NCOs was dealing with unmotivated slackers.

[jamautry]

It seems I have overstated the problem. So in an effort to steer this back to what to ask the recruiters I will say this. The classes he is getting D's in are AP Calculus, AP English, and AP Government. As I mentioned before he has a part time job over the last year and has done well and been promoted.

When I say he lacks motivation and self discipline but performs well under supervision here is an example. He is on the tennis team, when they travel to an event he will volunteer to help the coach load up all of the equipment into the bus, he will stay late to help unload the bus and perform any function to help out during the match. Which is all positive however, he says he wants to get better at tennis but is not motivated to put in the extra time to practice.

This past weekend he volunteered with the NHS group to go up and clean the school for four hours

I will say that since he realizes joining the military is an option he has been motivated enough to look information up online and talk to the Marine recruiter at school and seems genuinely excited to see the Air Force recruiter tomorrow.

I believe this is a case of a kid who is burnt out on school and unsure of how he wanted to proceed.

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[BehindBlueI's]

I believe this is a case of a kid who is burnt out on school and unsure of how he wanted to proceed.


With the volunteering, also sounds like a kid looking for a purpose. If he doesn't become disillusioned with it, the military can definitely give one a purpose.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the "but he could fail" posts. Sure he can. He could fail at a lot of things. But he could also succeed, or at very least learn something about the world and about himself.

[JRB]

I am currently an Army Reserve Administrator (formerly called a Unit Administrator) and I'm an NCO with 10 years of experience in the Army. I enlisted as a 26 year old after I got laid off from all three of my jobs between June and August of 2008. I professionally work with Army Recruiters to fill shortages in my current Reserve unit and I talk to several of them almost daily.

Recruiters are ridden very hard these days to produce numbers but over 2/3rds of the existing population is ineligible to join the military in any capacity. A potential recruit with an 81 AFQT score that's physically fit with a clean record will be a tier 1 candidate which means your son will basically have his choice of whatever is available, and he will be eligible for the maximum possible enlistment incentive packages.
In just the Army Reserve that often means $20,000 bonuses and a $50k student loan repayment benefit, as well as a Chapter 1606 Montgomery GI bill kicker which can mean up to ~$600/mo to go to college and go to unit drill weekends. Plus very cheap Tricare Reserve Select health insurance ($46/mo for a single Reservist) plus Tuition Assistance, etc, for signing a 6-year contract to just be a Reserve Soldier.

For active duty, it can be even better for an even shorter contract. Knowing what I know now, I would strongly and emphatically recommend active duty over any initial enlistment into the Reserve or National Guard. With that AFQT his line scores should easily meet the requirements for more tech-heavy things like 35 series MILINT and 25 series commo MOS's that will not only get you a Secret Clearance but line you up for a TS/SCI clearance - and a lot of the 25-series commo/IT lanes actually require civilian certifications like MCP, Cisco certs, etc so you will get those certifications just by serving and that lines you up NICELY for a civilian career on the outside. It also means you'll be living better than most of the infantry/combat arms types since those folks are almost always living at a Battalion level or higher.

If becoming a Warrant Officer pilot sounds good, ask the Recruiter about that because if your Son can pass a flight physical they sometimes have options that fast-track a strong candidate into aviation. That would be an incredibly kick-ass and lucrative path. Honestly that was my dream job but due to astigmatism and age I did not qualify. New PRK and LASIK options for vision correction are accepted now for Flight certification, which wasn't the case at the time I tried to go that route.

But here's some good basic ground rules I'd suggest for anyone talking to Recruiters of any branch:

-Go to at least two different recruiters from two different offices for a given branch. The Army Recruiting Command (USAREC) has been hurting like crazy to recruit Soldiers and this means they've been shoving people into Recruiting that don't really want to be there, and are keeping people in Recruiting that really suck at Recruiting. Other branches are the same. So going to two different recruiters and asking the same questions ensures you can avoid someone that just sucks/doesn't know the system and also ensure you're getting the right answers.
Army-wise, try to find the Sergeant First Class (SFC) or E7 that's senior in that recruiting center instead of talking to an E5 SGT or E6 SSG - typically they'll have a better handle on all the stuff available and how things work.
Generally speaking, Recruiters can't BS people as much as they once could - everything is in the paperwork and Recruiters that promise bogus things get in quite a bit of trouble. They will embellish the hell out of how cool a given job is, though, so make sure to do your own research on whatever MOS is being considered before committing to a given MOS.

-Ask all the questions you can. Everything you can think of. Ask both recruiters you talk to the same questions. Any paperwork you get from the Army discussing incentives like Bonuses, etc will be shown on the DA3540 and Bonus Addendum. In the past 5-6 years I have seen exactly one instance out of hundreds of enlistments and re-enlistments when a bonus promised by a Recruiter didn't end up on the contract - and that was an admin error on the Recruiting side of things and we got that fixed.

-Active duty first. The Reserve or National Guard is great if you've already done some active duty time, and you're done with active duty but you don't want to leave forever. Initially enlisting into Reserve/National Guard status just sucks because you will not have anywhere near the same opportunities for schools and cool stuff as a straight reservist and your career will always kind of flounder because of that. So I would lean strongly toward a 3 or 4 year active duty contract first, after which your Son can decide to re-up, go Reserve/Guard, or ETS entirely.

-Aside from MILINT/Commo-based MOS's, strongly consider medical as well. It's a hell of a thing to get an LPN education as a 68C and be on active duty as an E3 or E4 the whole time instead of paying tens of thousands for school. Same for x-ray techs, medics, etc.
I believe it requires a 90+ on the AFQT score, but the Army also does scholarships and guaranteed medical commissions for strong candidates that want to be an Army Nurse or Army Doctor. But you'll have to talk to an Army medical recruiter to get the details on that - and any local Army Recruiter should be able to put you in touch with a medical recruiter to discuss that option if your son is eligible.

-If you want a combat arms MOS, Airborne school, etc - the initial contract is the time to get it. Getting Airborne school or Air Assault can be a real pain in the ass in a lot of areas if it's not included in your enlistment contract. So if your Son has *ANY* interest in going infantry, tanker, cav scout, or any of that kind of stuff - do it on the first contract and sign the SHORTEST contract possible for that MOS. You can re-up into other commo/milint/etc lanes later with a strong ASVAB but there usually won't be as many MOS options for folks re-upping as there are for initial entry. That doesn't make any sense to me but that's the Army for you.

-On that note, the Military is not a logical organization. It's an environment of constantly illogical stupid shit and if your son cannot roll with the punches when something doesn't make sense, or your son has the constant need to question the how and why of any given tasker - the military will be very hard for him. Mental flexibility and a focus on completing the task first without any BSing and weaseling will make him a favorite in his chain of command regardless of MOS or branch or anything else.

Now for the more subjective things I can offer about each branch:

Army -
Widest variety of career paths. Easy to rise to the top because the Army has the lowest standards in a lot of lanes. Faster promotions especially if you're good at your job. Lots of school opportunities and other incentives.
Army bases are built in the worst possible places for weather and nearby civilization. Barracks, living conditions in the field, etc, also tends to suck.
The only world-travel options are Germany (awesome) Korea (meh) and misc Army bases all over CENTCOM and deployment-ish environments (meh).
Dealing with fellow Soldiers can be a real fucking pain because the Army has the lowest standards.
The current dress uniforms are stupid and look stupid.
Admin functions tend to be awful in the Army compared to other branches so it takes a lot of individual effort by the Soldier to ensure their records, pay, etc stay right.
Deployments can range from amazing to absolute frothing microwaved dog shit.
Overall the Army is reg-heavy and uncoordinated about enforcing those regs, so you can find some units promoting people that barely pass their PT tests while other units require much higher standards to promote. Expect life to be unfair and the Army will not disappoint you. This is true across all branches but the Army is the clear leader in that lane.

Marines -
Combat centric and the very least PC nonsense of any of the other branches. You are either an effective Marine or you are a shitbird and they are swift to deal with shitbirds.
OK variety of career paths but you have the LEAST control of your career path as a Marine vs any other branches.
Decent bases and base locations (Okinawa, Pendelton, etc) lots of other travel options piggybacking with the Navy.
Indisputably the best uniforms, and equipment is either ancient and barely works or is new and high speed and kick ass - no in between.
There's no fuckery like Marine fuckery. Marines that get into trouble go the extra mile with that trouble, and mass punishment is still popular.
Deployments tend to be combat centric - you're either guarding something or you're putting boot to ass. You'll deploy a lot, too.
Marine elements tend to be the fairest and most equitable about enforcing standards across the board for all Marines.

Air Force -
Best bases, best food, most comfortable living accommodations, shortest deployments that are usually in the safest parts of the AO. The most PC-centric of all the branches and that can be a really overbearing pain in the ass sometimes. The least combat focused of any of the branches and there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in unit culture between Security Forces (who are basically the Army grunts of the USAF, and get a lot of shit within the USAF for it) the sexy hi-speeds like TACP and PJ's - which all tend to be meat-eaters with a meat-eater unit culture - and the research/support elements of the USAF who barely ever qualify with or ever even see a weapon. Working with the latter element is more like working with a bunch of super-PC GS civilians than it is working with the military. Worst for rapid enlisted-side promotions - and IMHO there's a very PC-driven culture on selecting who gets promoted and it's not uncommon to see a decent troop barely making E6 after 10 or 12 years.

Navy - I know the least about the Navy due to being in the Army and not having many opportunities to work with them. What I do know, is they've got the best options by far for seeing the world, but are the worst by far if you hate confined spaces, 12hr/7day work weeks, and doing two people's jobs at the same time. The Navy has a lot more of a 'do what makes sense' culture than the Army, and the Navy also has more of a 'just get it fucking done' attitude, which I envy. I've also seen a lot more E7's and E8's in their 20's early 30's in the Navy than in the Army. The Navy also seems less inclined to hold on to shitty personnel than the Army.

Anyway, that's all just my long-winded two cents. If you have more specific questions, especially about the Army or want to double-check what an Army Recruiter is telling you, I would be delighted to assist.

[jamautry]

I am currently an Army Reserve Administrator (formerly called a Unit Administrator) and I'm an NCO with 10 years of experience in the Army. I enlisted as a 26 year old after I got laid off from all three of my jobs between June and August of 2008. I professionally work with Army Recruiters to fill shortages in my current Reserve unit and I talk to several of them almost daily.

Recruiters are ridden very hard these days to produce numbers but over 2/3rds of the existing population is ineligible to join the military in any capacity. A potential recruit with an 81 AFQT score that's physically fit with a clean record will be a tier 1 candidate which means your son will basically have his choice of whatever is available, and he will be eligible for the maximum possible enlistment incentive packages.
In just the Army Reserve that often means $20,000 bonuses and a $50k student loan repayment benefit, as well as a Chapter 1606 Montgomery GI bill kicker which can mean up to ~$600/mo to go to college and go to unit drill weekends. Plus very cheap Tricare Reserve Select health insurance ($46/mo for a single Reservist) plus Tuition Assistance, etc, for signing a 6-year contract to just be a Reserve Soldier.

For active duty, it can be even better for an even shorter contract. Knowing what I know now, I would strongly and emphatically recommend active duty over any initial enlistment into the Reserve or National Guard. With that AFQT his line scores should easily meet the requirements for more tech-heavy things like 35 series MILINT and 25 series commo MOS's that will not only get you a Secret Clearance but line you up for a TS/SCI clearance - and a lot of the 25-series commo/IT lanes actually require civilian certifications like MCP, Cisco certs, etc so you will get those certifications just by serving and that lines you up NICELY for a civilian career on the outside. It also means you'll be living better than most of the infantry/combat arms types since those folks are almost always living at a Battalion level or higher.

If becoming a Warrant Officer pilot sounds good, ask the Recruiter about that because if your Son can pass a flight physical they sometimes have options that fast-track a strong candidate into aviation. That would be an incredibly kick-ass and lucrative path. Honestly that was my dream job but due to astigmatism and age I did not qualify. New PRK and LASIK options for vision correction are accepted now for Flight certification, which wasn't the case at the time I tried to go that route.

But here's some good basic ground rules I'd suggest for anyone talking to Recruiters of any branch:

-Go to at least two different recruiters from two different offices for a given branch. The Army Recruiting Command (USAREC) has been hurting like crazy to recruit Soldiers and this means they've been shoving people into Recruiting that don't really want to be there, and are keeping people in Recruiting that really suck at Recruiting. Other branches are the same. So going to two different recruiters and asking the same questions ensures you can avoid someone that just sucks/doesn't know the system and also ensure you're getting the right answers.
Army-wise, try to find the Sergeant First Class (SFC) or E7 that's senior in that recruiting center instead of talking to an E5 SGT or E6 SSG - typically they'll have a better handle on all the stuff available and how things work.
Generally speaking, Recruiters can't BS people as much as they once could - everything is in the paperwork and Recruiters that promise bogus things get in quite a bit of trouble. They will embellish the hell out of how cool a given job is, though, so make sure to do your own research on whatever MOS is being considered before committing to a given MOS.

-Ask all the questions you can. Everything you can think of. Ask both recruiters you talk to the same questions. Any paperwork you get from the Army discussing incentives like Bonuses, etc will be shown on the DA3540 and Bonus Addendum. In the past 5-6 years I have seen exactly one instance out of hundreds of enlistments and re-enlistments when a bonus promised by a Recruiter didn't end up on the contract - and that was an admin error on the Recruiting side of things and we got that fixed.

-Active duty first. The Reserve or National Guard is great if you've already done some active duty time, and you're done with active duty but you don't want to leave forever. Initially enlisting into Reserve/National Guard status just sucks because you will not have anywhere near the same opportunities for schools and cool stuff as a straight reservist and your career will always kind of flounder because of that. So I would lean strongly toward a 3 or 4 year active duty contract first, after which your Son can decide to re-up, go Reserve/Guard, or ETS entirely.

-Aside from MILINT/Commo-based MOS's, strongly consider medical as well. It's a hell of a thing to get an LPN education as a 68C and be on active duty as an E3 or E4 the whole time instead of paying tens of thousands for school. Same for x-ray techs, medics, etc.
I believe it requires a 90+ on the AFQT score, but the Army also does scholarships and guaranteed medical commissions for strong candidates that want to be an Army Nurse or Army Doctor. But you'll have to talk to an Army medical recruiter to get the details on that - and any local Army Recruiter should be able to put you in touch with a medical recruiter to discuss that option if your son is eligible.

-If you want a combat arms MOS, Airborne school, etc - the initial contract is the time to get it. Getting Airborne school or Air Assault can be a real pain in the ass in a lot of areas if it's not included in your enlistment contract. So if your Son has *ANY* interest in going infantry, tanker, cav scout, or any of that kind of stuff - do it on the first contract and sign the SHORTEST contract possible for that MOS. You can re-up into other commo/milint/etc lanes later with a strong ASVAB but there usually won't be as many MOS options for folks re-upping as there are for initial entry. That doesn't make any sense to me but that's the Army for you.

-On that note, the Military is not a logical organization. It's an environment of constantly illogical stupid shit and if your son cannot roll with the punches when something doesn't make sense, or your son has the constant need to question the how and why of any given tasker - the military will be very hard for him. Mental flexibility and a focus on completing the task first without any BSing and weaseling will make him a favorite in his chain of command regardless of MOS or branch or anything else.

Now for the more subjective things I can offer about each branch:

Army -
Widest variety of career paths. Easy to rise to the top because the Army has the lowest standards in a lot of lanes. Faster promotions especially if you're good at your job. Lots of school opportunities and other incentives.
Army bases are built in the worst possible places for weather and nearby civilization. Barracks, living conditions in the field, etc, also tends to suck.
The only world-travel options are Germany (awesome) Korea (meh) and misc Army bases all over CENTCOM and deployment-ish environments (meh).
Dealing with fellow Soldiers can be a real fucking pain because the Army has the lowest standards.
The current dress uniforms are stupid and look stupid.
Admin functions tend to be awful in the Army compared to other branches so it takes a lot of individual effort by the Soldier to ensure their records, pay, etc stay right.
Deployments can range from amazing to absolute frothing microwaved dog shit.
Overall the Army is reg-heavy and uncoordinated about enforcing those regs, so you can find some units promoting people that barely pass their PT tests while other units require much higher standards to promote. Expect life to be unfair and the Army will not disappoint you. This is true across all branches but the Army is the clear leader in that lane.

Marines -
Combat centric and the very least PC nonsense of any of the other branches. You are either an effective Marine or you are a shitbird and they are swift to deal with shitbirds.
OK variety of career paths but you have the LEAST control of your career path as a Marine vs any other branches.
Decent bases and base locations (Okinawa, Pendelton, etc) lots of other travel options piggybacking with the Navy.
Indisputably the best uniforms, and equipment is either ancient and barely works or is new and high speed and kick ass - no in between.
There's no fuckery like Marine fuckery. Marines that get into trouble go the extra mile with that trouble, and mass punishment is still popular.
Deployments tend to be combat centric - you're either guarding something or you're putting boot to ass. You'll deploy a lot, too.
Marine elements tend to be the fairest and most equitable about enforcing standards across the board for all Marines.

Air Force -
Best bases, best food, most comfortable living accommodations, shortest deployments that are usually in the safest parts of the AO. The most PC-centric of all the branches and that can be a really overbearing pain in the ass sometimes. The least combat focused of any of the branches and there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in unit culture between Security Forces (who are basically the Army grunts of the USAF, and get a lot of shit within the USAF for it) the sexy hi-speeds like TACP and PJ's - which all tend to be meat-eaters with a meat-eater unit culture - and the research/support elements of the USAF who barely ever qualify with or ever even see a weapon. Working with the latter element is more like working with a bunch of super-PC GS civilians than it is working with the military. Worst for rapid enlisted-side promotions - and IMHO there's a very PC-driven culture on selecting who gets promoted and it's not uncommon to see a decent troop barely making E6 after 10 or 12 years.

Navy - I know the least about the Navy due to being in the Army and not having many opportunities to work with them. What I do know, is they've got the best options by far for seeing the world, but are the worst by far if you hate confined spaces, 12hr/7day work weeks, and doing two people's jobs at the same time. The Navy has a lot more of a 'do what makes sense' culture than the Army, and the Navy also has more of a 'just get it fucking done' attitude, which I envy. I've also seen a lot more E7's and E8's in their 20's early 30's in the Navy than in the Army. The Navy also seems less inclined to hold on to shitty personnel than the Army.

Anyway, that's all just my long-winded two cents. If you have more specific questions, especially about the Army or want to double-check what an Army Recruiter is telling you, I would be delighted to assist.Thank you very much for your informative post. I will take your advise.

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[Yung]

Thank you for your clarifications. I'd caution that the only thing left that really sticks out to me about the explanation behind your stepson's grades and attendance is that it is entirely possible that he may get to his first unit and find himself disillusioned and/or burned out. But that's getting a bit ahead of things and I think that some of the questions he should ask the recruiter should include what steps he can take to prepare to succeed his initial training with distinction.

For example at the end of my OSUT, I received a battalion coin and CoA for earning a perfect score on M9 qual and reciting a spiel about the regimental distinctive insignia when it became clear that the distinguished honor grad was struggling to memorize it in during graduation rehearsals because he had more than enough on his plate to keep his title.

From there, probably the easiest important question I'd ask would be what the recruiter attributed the most to his/her success, including things they learned as joes/junior NCOs that they wish someone had told them earlier. We could probably have a very long thread with our .mil members on that topic alone.

Saving my money is one of the small things I took pride in looking back at my career. The senior NCO at my recruiting station explained the details of a 401k to me before I even put my name on anything. If your stepson decides upon active duty and doesn't plan on getting into a relationship anytime soon, there is likely no other time in his life where it will be easy to sock away income besides whatever he'll put into his Thrift Savings Plan. However, the same things that make it easy also make it easy to ignore altogether -- seeing the biggest numbers on his paycheck than he's ever seen before, not having to worry about paying for rent, food (especially if he gets put on separate rations) and healthcare, cheap life insurance and a GI Bill -- there are a lot of people I knew who wished they hadn't bought a bunch of electronics at the PX, ate out every meal, go drinking or playing video games every minute they weren't at work, live off-post, splurging on a car after deployments, etc. It is best to live and behave as if the government is not going to take care of you, because ultimately it won't, even in the military.

Also, he needs to practice driving more often whether he has his license already or not.

Best of luck tomorrow and God bless.

[UNK]

It sounds like he has a lack of motivation for some reason and the way he is currently acting if it continued would honestly make him a drain on any unit he is assigned to... Its not just about PT. Let him know that contrary to what the public believes, the .mil is not where lackluster youth go to figure themselves out. That time is past... If he does not perform then they will send him out the door with a quickness, most likely with a discharge type that doesnt look good on future applications elsewhere... If he wants to work and perform.... then welcome to the service, glad to have you. We are having trouble meeting recruiting goals...mostly due to the above mentioned issues.

Times must have changed. When I was in second phase we picked up a guy who had been on PI 6 months. And he got dropped when we went to third. I always figured he might still be there. 🙄

[jamautry]

Just wanted to report that he officially enlisted in the army today. He passed his DLAB and got the job he wanted, which is, 35W which is a new job combining the old Human Intelligence job and Linguist.

While a very small sample size he is back to being the motivated go getter he once was. He leaves in June and has 9 weeks of basic followed by a year of job training.

I am very optimistic he will perform well and has found the career for him.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

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[JRB]

Just wanted to report that he officially enlisted in the army today. He passed his DLAB and got the job he wanted, which is, 35W which is a new job combining the old Human Intelligence job and Linguist.

While a very small sample size he is back to being the motivated go getter he once was. He leaves in June and has 9 weeks of basic followed by a year of job training.

I am very optimistic he will perform well and has found the career for him.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

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I wish I started my career the way your son is starting his!

A final piece of advice, if I may: The Army seems very big, but it feels like a small town sometimes. So your son should do everything he can to make more friends than enemies - there's no telling who you'll run into 3 or 6 years later that's in a position to make your life much easier or much worse, depending on how you treated them in the past.

[jamautry]

I wish I started my career the way your son is starting his!

A final piece of advice, if I may: The Army seems very big, but it feels like a small town sometimes. So your son should do everything he can to make more friends than enemies - there's no telling who you'll run into 3 or 6 years later that's in a position to make your life much easier or much worse, depending on how you treated them in the past.Great advice, I will let him know. Thanks again for your help, it was very beneficial.

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