New Automags (and 1980s men's adventure fiction?)

[Lester Polfus]

Somebody else bought the name/rights. Website HERE (https://automag.com/).

According to the FAQ, guns will start shipping Soon™ and you can reserve yours for $3500.

[Balisong]

Is it the Hudson people?

[Joe in PNG]

At least it's not another GlockKiller.

[okie john]

Maybe they can bring back the Bren 10 while they're at it.


Okie John

[Joe in PNG]

Maybe they can bring back the Bren 10 while they're at it.


Okie John

And the H&K P-7.

[Lester Polfus]

Maybe they can bring back the Bren 10 while they're at it.


Okie John

Apparently, some Automags shipped without magazines too...

[fwrun]

Based out of Loris, SC? Are they manufacturing them in triple wides?

[Bucky]

Maybe they can bring back the Bren 10 while they're at it.


Okie John


And the H&K P-7.

And the Wildey. :)

[peterb]

Gyrojet? ;-)

[Archer1440]

And the H&K P-7.

Well, unlike the other examples cited elsewhere on this thread, the P7 was successful, and even still relevant to some of us here.

The Wildey, Bren Ten and AutoMag? Not so much.

[farscott]

As much of a fan of Dirty Harry as I am, I cannot imagine the thought process behind bringing back the AutoMag and the .44 AMP round. This is a large, expensive pistol that has no real factory ammo. How many people have $3500, time to reload, and the burning desire to "remove the fingerprints"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQrJ9u-jo_E

[Archer1440]

You know, I shot an AMT AutoMag some time in 1992. I can vouch for two things.

One, if one were not wearing hearing protection (as shown in the acting scene) one would not be having normal level conversations for quite some time. (What? WHAT??)

Second, the rate and accuracy shown in the film for one-handed shooting with that particular firearm goes from sublime to ridiculous. I know, "willing suspension of disbelief", but, yes, Hollywood.

Oh, I thought of a third thing. Regardless of whether you're a gun person or not, they do get attention. Lots of attention.

So, there's probably an element out there that will always seek to possess a firearm like this... just as there's always a market for gilt AE .50 DE's.

Said market might not be made up of customers you or I would want to associate with, but it certainly exists.

[Lester Polfus]

As much of a fan of Dirty Harry as I am, I cannot imagine the thought process behind bringing back the AutoMag and the .44 AMP round. This is a large, expensive pistol that has no real factory ammo. How many people have $3500, time to reload, and the burning desire to "remove the fingerprints"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQrJ9u-jo_E

Right?

When the Automag first came out, .44 Mag was about as much power as you could get in a repeating handgun. Nowadays, if your goal is power, the .44 Mag and .44 AMP are eclipsed by other cartridges.

If your goal is .44 Mag power level out of an autoloader, the Desert Eagle is a much cheaper and available platform.

So the only reason to buy one of these Automags is because you really think Automags are cool. $3500 will get you into the ballpark for a 'shooter-grade' original Automag that actually exists, as opposed to something that is potentially vapor ware.

I cut my teeth on Mack Bolan books but this is a pss for me.

[Inkwell 41]

SKELI X-11, or maybe it's too early for that.

[awp_101]

I cut my teeth on Mack Bolan books
Damn, there's a name I haven't heard in years...

[MattyD380]

Why would they offer this in a proprietary caliber instead of normal magnum rounds? The whole, "it would be neat if I could shoot .357 in an automatic" factor goes away--and that, to me, is the whole point of having an automatic that shoots magnums. I guess having a weird gun can be cool... but having a weird gun that shoots weirder ammo is just annoying. I'd rather have a Coonan.

And all joking aside... I'd love to see another Bren-Ten. And a P7.

[Bucky]

Why would they offer this in a proprietary caliber instead of normal magnum rounds? The whole, "it would be neat if I could shoot .357 in an automatic" factor goes away--and that, to me, is the whole point of having an automatic that shoots magnums. I guess having a weird gun can be cool... but having a weird gun that shoots weirder ammo is just annoying. I'd rather have a Coonan.

The ability to get .357 Magnum ballistics out of a semi auto was done best by the 9x23 in my opinion. And we see how well that went.

The only possible appeal to the Automag would be in its .44 config, IMO.

[hufnagel]

You know, I shot an AMT AutoMag some time in 1992. I can vouch for two things.

One, if one were not wearing hearing protection (as shown in the acting scene) one would not be having normal level conversations for quite some time. (What? WHAT??)

Second, the rate and accuracy shown in the film for one-handed shooting with that particular firearm goes from sublime to ridiculous. I know, "willing suspension of disbelief", but, yes, Hollywood.

Oh, I thought of a third thing. Regardless of whether you're a gun person or not, they do get attention. Lots of attention.

So, there's probably an element out there that will always seek to possess a firearm like this... just as there's always a market for gilt AE .50 DE's.

Said market might not be made up of customers you or I would want to associate with, but it certainly exists.

So you're saying I shouldn't get it to go with my AMT Automag III .30 Carbine, my gold plated leopard print DEagle .50, and my S&W 500?
It's pretty racist of you to discriminate against obscenely large handguns like that.
<song> FAT BOTTOM GIRLS YOU MAKE THE ROCKIN' WORLD GO 'ROUND!!! </song>

[peterb]

On a slightly more serious note: Has the progress in multi-axis machining centers and short-run custom production made this kind of project *more* viable than it was a couple of decades ago?

I realize that there’s a huge up-front cost in converting old drawings to 3-D solid models, but I’d think you could reduce the need for dedicated custom tooling and facilities.

[mmc45414]

When I see stuff like this, I wonder if it is somebody that has a successful manufacturing business that is an enthusiast and might be able to dabble in building guns or accessories while not being required to capitalize a bunch of equipment just to build gun stuff. As an exploratory method I do a search on the street address. In this case I came up with these folks:
http://southernammo.com/index.htm
Who might have a successful business going and they can filter off some fun money into building Automags instead of racing a car at the local dirt track or something. I think the Hudson guys were trying to make a living building Hudsons, if these guys can't make money making Automags they will probably just not make any Automags.

And I think some people will buy stuff like this. And the ammo probably doesn't matter because most never intend to shoot it, just collecting it. Like sum dood that has a couple originals and wants a current production version. Not me, fur damn sure, nor many that frequent P-F. Hell, us people around here think you are silly for buying something beside a Glock 19 :)

[Alpha Sierra]

On a slightly more serious note: Has the progress in multi-axis machining centers and short-run custom production made this kind of project *more* viable than it was a couple of decades ago?
Typically the answer is no. Products need to be designed with modern machining and manufacturing technology in mind to reap the majority of the benefits.

In this particular case it's hard to say without seeing the blueprints.

[Gun Mutt]

I cut my teeth on Mack Bolan books but this is a pss for me.

I started reading Don Pendleton's stuff when I was probably too young, but I'd already long been tainted by the comic book, Warlord, with Travis Morgan cutting a swath through his enemies and unleashing thunderbolts of death and destruction from his .44 Automag!

36352


And no, I won't be buying an Automag, either. But a Grizzly LAR...maybe, just maybe. Got to shoot a mag through one eons ago, never forgot it.

36353

[mmc45414]

Has the progress in multi-axis machining centers and short-run custom production made this kind of project *more* viable than it was a couple of decades ago?

Typically the answer is no.
Maybe another spin on this might be the practical availability. The machines have been around, but it is my understanding (been out of that market for a while but spent a long time selling into it) that a lot can be bought now for price levels that might make it more applicable. A couple years ago it was explained to me in a job interview process that significant mold business is coming back onshore, because you can buy a high speed spindle machine with multiple axis that can do net shape machining, eliminating the manual finishing where the inexpensive labor cots in Asia were the big advantage. The machine tools can be acquired at an investment level that makes it feasible to build the tools in an expensive labor market with a sophisticated tool instead of building it on a simple machine and paying a cheap guy to polish it. Many of those same sophisticated machines would be applicable to making guns. If they can do it without mold or forging tool the idea would be scalable.

IMO in this case it probably has more to do with overhead. If somebody already has (or has a buddy) that has already made the capital investments, it is just a matter of going to your guy that is already sitting in front of the software that you have already bought the license for and have them put in some time and log their hours under job cost accounting code "Automag", that is one thing. OTOH if you go sign a lease to a building because you are gonna build Automags, and buy CAD/CAM software to build Automags, and buy some CNC machines to build Automags, I am pretty sure that would be a loosing strategy.

In the first case if they sell just a thousand of them it would be $3.5 million, who knows?

[medic15al]

I started reading Don Pendleton's stuff when I was probably too young, but I'd already long been tainted by the comic book, Warlord, with Travis Morgan cutting a swath through his enemies and unleashing thunderbolts of death and destruction from his .44 Automag!

36352


And no, I won't be buying an Automag, either. But a Grizzly LAR...maybe, just maybe. Got to shoot a mag through one eons ago, never forgot it.

36353

What is that movie with Sam Elliot? I remember seeing it but forgot the name. .45 Magnum I think one of the characters said.

[Blackbag]

I believe the Sam Eliot movie was called Shakedown. Peter Weller was in it too.

[medic15al]

Ah, Thanks Blackbag!

[Blackbag]

No problem! You're welcome.

John

[JSGlock34]

No 93R, no care.

36361

ETA: I was more a Phoenix Force guy anyway.

[BobM]

No 93R, no care.

36361

ETA: I was more a Phoenix Force guy anyway.

I don't recall Phoenix Force but I think there was an Able Team? One of the guys always carried a Python.

[JSGlock34]

I don't recall Phoenix Force but I think there was an Able Team? One of the guys always carried a Python.

I didn't care for the Able Team books, but sometimes Able Team and Phoenix Force would team up with Bolan and all hell would break loose. All the books took place in the same shared Stony Man universe.

Phoenix Force was like an early version of Rainbow Six set during the Cold War but with ninjas.

36365

[BobM]

I read a bunch of those books in the early 80s. I just looked around online and didn't realize the Bolan character was introduced in 1969.

[JSGlock34]

I read a bunch of those books in the early 80s. I just looked around online and didn't realize the Bolan character was introduced in 1969.

Certainly inspired a more successful and widely known franchise...

https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/the-punisher-4.jpg?w=1000

[awp_101]

This is the one that reeled me in:
36369

We were camping with my grandparents in between 7th and 8th grade. We were staying in a state park and went into whatever town was close by for something and I saw that cover on the book rack in the store. I was into aircraft way before I got into guns and that was a real "WTH?" cover so I got my Grandmother to buy it so I had something new to read while we were camping. After that, anytime I had some cash I'd hit the used book stores looking for more and read as many as I could get all the way through high school.

Mack Bolan made me what I am today...LOL!

[JAD]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51N2BXnvxYL._SX298_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

My first, I think. I later worked backwards through the series. I got into D&D and Mack at the same time, in ‘80, when I was 9. Explains a lot.

[Balisong]

I've personally never read a Mack Bolan book. But a good childhood friend of mine, my scout master's son, was into them. He tragically passed away last summer. Maybe I should read 1 or 2 in his honor. They look like fun books.

ETA: I read a lot of Doc Savage though, and I got him into those a little bit.

[Alpha Sierra]

http://d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net/books/1247424665l/2302672.jpg

DQ that guy

[Gun Mutt]

.45 Magnum I think one of the characters said.

.45 Winchester Magnum (https://www.midwayusa.com/45-winchester-magnum/br?cid=9328)



I don't recall Phoenix Force but I think there was an Able Team? One of the guys always carried a Python.

Carl Lyons...my favorite character after Bolan himself.

[MattyD380]

This is the one that reeled me in:
36369

We were camping with my grandparents in between 7th and 8th grade. We were staying in a state park and went into whatever town was close by for something and I saw that cover on the book rack in the store. I was into aircraft way before I got into guns and that was a real "WTH?" cover so I got my Grandmother to buy it so I had something new to read while we were camping. After that, anytime I had some cash I'd hit the used book stores looking for more and read as many as I could get all the way through high school.

Mack Bolan made me what I am today...LOL!

Is that a Mig-25 going down behind a... Fokker DR-1?

[awp_101]

Is that a Mig-25 going down behind a... Fokker DR-1?

MiG25 or 31 and a Lloyd C.II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_C.II) as painted by Gil Cohen. He started his career doing covers for pulp novels in the '50s and eventually made a name for himself as an aviation artist. In between he also did the covers for The Executioner series starting with #11 until it was sold around 1987 as well as a couple of other series owned by the same publisher. When I was looking for that cover I found an interview with him and if I can find it again I'll post where he talks about this cover as well as the link sometime this weekend.

[awp_101]

Part 1: http://www.menspulpmags.com/2018/03/gil-cohens-executionermack-bolan-cover.html
Part 2 (which I haven't read yet) : http://www.menspulpmags.com/2018/04/an-interview-with-artist-gil-cohen.html

Here's the relevant part regarding the cover I posted. He keeps referencing a MiG21 on the cover but it's a 25 or 31.


They would tell you what kind of gun, what kind of plane, what kind of tank, that kind of a thing?

GIL: Yeah. Okay, now we’re on a subject that reminds me of the Mack Bolan convention again. I’m there and I’m answering questions and all of that. There was a line, by the way, going around whole the block in San Francisco, people — mostly guys — wanting to get in. I was amazed. Absolutely amazed. I couldn’t get over it. There were all kinds of people coming in. One was this nerdy-looking guy. He’s got a tweed sport coat and his hair is neatly combed and he’s wearing eyeglasses and he goes up to one of the paintings that I brought. It’s one of the Mack Bolan covers where I show Mack in a World War I aircraft.

I know that one. It’s number 78, DEATH GAMES. Bolan is in the back seat of a biplane shooting down a Russian MiG jet with a missile launcher. I love it!

GIL: Yeah, he’d just shot down a MiG-21. Now, when the art director, Charles Kadin, contacted me about that one he said, “Gil, this is what we want. He’s flying this old Australian-Hungarian patrol plane.” It’s not even a fighter plane. It’s an obscure biplane called a Lloyd C something.

I just Googled it. It looks like it’s a Lloyd C.II Austro-Hungarian two-seat, reconnaissance biplane.

GIL: That’s it. Anyway, Kadin said, “Bolan is sitting in the back seat. It’s a tandem thing — a pilot in the front seat, Bolan is sitting or standing up in the back of the plane. He’s holding a surface-to-air missile in his arms and he’s just shot down a modern MiG-21.”

I said, “That just can’t happen. Not possible. First of all, the heat seeking missiles of the MiG-21 would find that biplane and blast it out of the sky like swatting a fly. It would be nothing to knock that plane down. And here you want him shooting down the MiG-21 and the MiG's going down in flames? That’s ridiculous.” He said, “Gil, just go along with it. Do it.”

So, I said OK and did it. And I figured, you know, “Forget about it Cohen, just have fun. Do it and have fun doing it.” So, I did. I looked up reference photos for the Lloyd C-II, and I did the painting. I had that painting at the Mack Bolan Convention. And this nerdy young guy, maybe in his 30s, he walks in with his tweed sport coat and his glasses and his neatly-combed straight hair and he’s staring at the painting. His nose is almost touching it. I’m looking at Alice, my wife, who is sitting next to me. I kind of nodded to her and I whispered, “Here it comes.”

So, he’s looking at the painting and says, “Are you Gil Cohen?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “Well, my name is” – whatever – and he said, “I work in aerospace in nearby Silicon Valley.” And I’m thinking, “Oh god, here it comes. He’s going to tear this painting apart.” And he said, “You know, that’s very astute of you. This could happen.” I’m not saying anything, I’m just letting him talk. Then he said “Well, you know…” and starts spouting jargon, aviation/technical jargon, vectors and this and that.

Then he said, “And the reason why this could happen is that the engine of the Lloyd aircraft is too tiny to generate enough heat for the heat-seeking missiles on the MiG-21 to pick up. Thus, it probably wouldn’t be able to shoot down that biplane.” So, the scene I painted was actually very valid, though I didn’t know it. And he said, “That was very astute of you to think about that.” And, I said with a straight face, “Well, you know, I kind of figured it out.”

[Baldanders]

I doubt this will make it to a real production run. Any supermag auto needs to be priced competitively with the DE.

[BarryinIN]

I have two AutoMags, a .44 and a .357. As useful guns go, they aren’t. As mechanical devices go, they are pretty interesting. The .357 is probably the better cartridge, but I guess since it doesn’t sound as cool, few people now know it even existed.

Everybody knows Mack Bolan is a wuss. John Rourke (Survivalist) is the man.

[awp_101]

I have two AutoMags, a .44 and a .357. As useful guns go, they aren’t. As mechanical devices go, they are pretty interesting.
I wonder if Ian @ Forgotten Weapons has ever done anything on them?

[MistWolf]

...Everybody knows Mack Bolan is a wuss. John Rourke (Survivalist) is the man.
While John Rourke is up there, he never shot down a MiG from the backseat of a Lloyd C.II reconnaissance bi-plane.

[BarryinIN]

While John Rourke is up there, he never shot down a MiG from the backseat of a Lloyd C.II reconnaissance bi-plane.

Well you got me there. He did however land a 747 in the middle of a nuclear war, EMP notwithstanding.

[BarryinIN]

I wonder if Ian @ Forgotten Weapons has ever done anything on them?

If not, I hope he does. There was nothing really new about the AutoMag, but the combination of stolen, er, borrowed designs was. Johnson bolt, recoil accelerator from the M2 Browning, P38 recoil springs, High Standard trigger system. He could lay them all out and show it.

[1911nerd]

If not, I hope he does. There was nothing really new about the AutoMag, but the combination of stolen, er, borrowed designs was. Johnson bolt, recoil accelerator from the M2 Browning, P38 recoil springs, High Standard trigger system. He could lay them all out and show it.

Automag 180 on Forgotten Weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAGuTGyYM7Y

[MistWolf]

Well you got me there. He did however land a 747 in the middle of a nuclear war, EMP notwithstanding.

True. John Rourke also wandered across the nation on a Harley, destroyed apocalyptic Communist and Nazi regimes, survived the burning of the atmosphere, carried twin Detonics 45s in a double Alessi rig, took a long cryogenic nap- not once, not twice, but three times, turned a highly trained and dedicated Russian spy into his loyal sidekick and banged her when he was done.

But Mack Bolan was a sniper in Vietnam, mowed down wiseguys by the dozens, robbed the mob bagman whenever he needed funds for his warchest, evaded every law enforcement agency in the US, carried an AMT Automag, was a plank commander of Stony Man and used a 458 Weatherby Magnum as a long sniper rifle.

[Tokarev]

And the Wildey. :)https://www.usafirearmscorp.com

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[mmc45414]

I doubt this will make it to a real production run. Any supermag auto needs to be priced competitively with the DE.
Maybe not for movie guns :)

[Lester Polfus]

Maybe not for movie guns :)

If somebody puts an Automag in a popular movie or TV show, that could make the difference between this newest iteration succeeding or riding off into the sunset.


This thread has drifted into an awesome direction. IMHO the best of the 1980s Mens Adventure fiction was The Guardians Series by Richard Austin. The first 8 books or so were written by science fiction author Victor Milan. They then jumped the shark massively.

Maybe we should retitle this "New Automags and 1980's mens adventure fiction?"

I don't think I can change the title, but perhaps one of our #shitmods (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=shitmods) will?

[awp_101]

True. John Rourke also wandered across the nation on a Harley, destroyed apocalyptic Communist and Nazi regimes, survived the burning of the atmosphere, carried twin Detonics 45s in a double Alessi rig, took a long cryogenic nap- not once, not twice, but three times, turned a highly trained and dedicated Russian spy into his loyal sidekick and banged her when he was done.

But Mack Bolan was a sniper in Vietnam, mowed down wiseguys by the dozens, robbed the mob bagman whenever he needed funds for his warchest, evaded every law enforcement agency in the US, carried an AMT Automag, was a plank commander of Stony Man and used a 458 Weatherby Magnum as a long sniper rifle.

Yet neither were named after a British attack jet, were a member of the Thunderbirds, selected to be an astronaut, modified an F-16XL to carry a dozen (or more) AAMs after a nuclear war and then got caught in a time warp where he wound up in an era that fought with jet biplanes.

#HawkerHunter (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=HawkerHunter)

[Baldanders]

If somebody puts an Automag in a popular movie or TV show, that could make the difference between this newest iteration succeeding or riding off into the sunset.

Only if it pushes original Automag prices above the price of a new one.

[feudist]

I have two AutoMags, a .44 and a .357. As useful guns go, they aren’t. As mechanical devices go, they are pretty interesting. The .357 is probably the better cartridge, but I guess since it doesn’t sound as cool, few people now know it even existed.

Everybody knows Mack Bolan is a wuss. John Rourke (Survivalist) is the man.

What kind of splits are you getting?

Appendix?

[Lester Polfus]

Only if it pushes original Automag prices above the price of a new one.

Oh $3500 only gets you into bottom tier, shooter grade Automags. Often they are the less desirable AMT versions.

You can easily get into five figures with Automags. A quick search of historical auctions reveals that about 50% of them have sold for more than what I paid for the truck I'm driving...

[Lester Polfus]

What kind of splits are you getting?

Appendix?

And, does it have a RDS?

[BarryinIN]

What kind of splits are you getting?

Appendix?

I got some fantastic splits the time it went auto in the Ransom Rest. That was twenty years ago and i think I’m still shaking a little over that one.

[medic15al]

Yet neither were named after a British attack jet, were a member of the Thunderbirds, selected to be an astronaut, modified an F-16XL to carry a dozen (or more) AAMs after a nuclear war and then got caught in a time warp where he wound up in an era that fought with jet biplanes.

#HawkerHunter (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=HawkerHunter)

The Wingman? My favorite book series alongside "Deathlands". need to start over on The Wingman.

[awp_101]

The Wingman? My favorite book series alongside "Deathlands". need to start over on The Wingman.

Yep! :D

[medic15al]

Thanks to this thread I am now downloading The Wingman on my kindle.....:)

[farscott]

Yet none of those guys was the weapon, like Remo Williams was in "The Destroyer" series. Those books were an essential part of my teen years, and I used to crack up at Chiun's antics and some of the social commentary. There was a particularly memorable sendup of modern music when all of the songs had the words "Stone" and "Love" in the titles.

The chapter two of each novel other than the first began with the words, "His name was Remo." That phrase takes me right back.

[Gun Mutt]

I loved The Destroyer series and almost everything else I ever read by Warren Murphy (RIP). Still waiting for Shane Black to deliver upon his promised Destroyer movie.