What gun do you carry? What would you recommend for me? (Not what you think)

[Cypher]

I think this is general discussion.

This occurred one morning at church several months ago. I was on my way to the coffee machine to get a cup of coffee when the Pastor walked up and asked me what kind of gun I was carrying and what kind of gun I would recommend for his first gun.

(I want to clarify that he didn't pick me at random, I was on the church security team and he knew it because he had to give final approval.)

The question caught me off guard, it wasn't something I walked around preparing and answer to until it happened. I ended up telling him to take one of the associate pastors who was a retired cop down to Family Firearms Sales and tell the owner he was from our church and I'd sent him (the owner gave anyone from our church a discount) and go shopping.

FWIW he ended up with a Glock 43 or maybe a 42.

How would you answer that question from an acquaintance ? Not so much what would you recommend (because around here I know it would be a Glock43/26/19) but how would you recommend it?

[Alpha Sierra]

How would you answer that question from an acquaintance ? Not so much what would you recommend (because around here I know it would be a Glock43/26/19) but how would you recommend it?

I wouldn't recommend a Glock. I would recommend something else based on my own experience.

More to the point I'm not sure how, or if, I would recommend anything.

My experience, sadly, has been that most people who ask me about firearms don't want knowledge. They want validation. And I can tell immediately because no sooner than I'm finished talking the "but" rebuttals start from the other person.

There is only ONE person in my circle of friends who is truly serious about firearm use and is motivated enough to actually seek training. We mostly shoot long range precision rifles together and it's a pleasure to spend a day at the range with him.

Everyone else is either a recreational user/collector, and if they carry they've had zero training and show no interest in it.

At work I avoid these conversations not because of politics (I work in a very gun friendly environment) but because the one guy who is always looking for conversation is the validation type and he's a gun of the month club member (something I care nothing about).

[Bigghoss]

I always try to base my recommendations based on what I know about the person. For my coworkers I recommend getting a duplicate of our duty guns. For everyone else my default answer in usually the same: Glock 19 or S&W M&P. One friend is on a very tight budget so I took her out shopping and she ended up with an SD9.


I've been to Family Firearms Sales a few times and seen their adds on Armslist. They're usually overpriced. However the staff is pretty cool and I once saw a guy behind the counter carrying a WC BrigTac, which is a breath of fresh aid compared to the typical gun store employee with an XD in a SERPA. And the mouth-breathers at Specialty Sports usually aren't much help and overhearing their derp is like rats eating my brain. Magnum Shooting Center has a nice rental counter so I've recommended them to people to try stuff out.

[Totem Polar]

This:

[revchuck38]

My retirement job is working in a bike shop, and folks come in often wanting to start riding but not knowing where/with what to start. I ask them what kind of riding they want to do and where, what their experience level is with bikes, and what their budget is. I can then make recommendations based on their answers.

I think this transfers well to pistols. Do want a pistol to carry? Do you want one that you can carry all the time? What is your experience level with firearms? How do you dress? What is your total budget (since the package includes a holster at least in addition to the handgun, and hopefully extra magazines and practice ammo)?

The one type of handgun that I never recommend for someone starting out is a J frame. IMO it's an expert's gun.

[Cypher]

My experience, sadly, has been that most people who ask me about firearms don't want knowledge. They want validation. And I can tell immediately because no sooner than I'm finished talking the "but" rebuttals start from the other person.

On that particular day I was carrying an M&P9 (so I guess it was over a year ago) and as soon as I said it he replied "That's too heavy"


More to the point I'm not sure how, or if, I would recommend anything.

I don't know that I'd make any specific recommendation other than to suggest a 9mm and that they start by looking at either Glock or an M&P. If possible I'd take them to Family Firearms myself

[Bigghoss]

This:

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36000&stc=1&d=1552236374

I will usually invite people if our schedules line up. Otherwise I'll recommend a few things and point them to a gun shop that has a decent selection of rental guns.

[BehindBlueI's]

My standard answer is to try a S&W Shield. It's an excellent entry level gun. Small enough that the non-dedicated can find a way to conceal it, big enough to shoot reasonably well, excellent cost to quality ratio, and fits a pretty wide range of hands. There's plenty of aftermarket support, spare magazines are cheap, lots of holsters, etc. If they like the Shield, done, buy it and shoot it for awhile until you learn what you need to in order to start making your own decisions. If you don't like it, why? Then adjust from there. The Shield is a good base line "I know nothing about you" place to stat for someone wanting to actually carry, get at least a bit of practice, and is physically capable of (and not intimidated by) racking a slide or breaking a gun down to clean.

For someone who's interested more in a "break glass in case of emergency" sort of gun they'll never carry or practice with, or who can't or won't handle the complexity of breaking down a self loading pistol, a used 4" .38 of whatever's available in their area. Fill with wadcutters, place in proverbial sock drawer.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I wouldn't recommend a gun first. I would take him to the range or suggest training with an intro course - assuming he has no such experience. Excuse me, if I misread the situation. Then I would get him to some competitions.

If you are going to use a gun in a stress full, crowded, parishioners panicking situation - the choice between several quality handguns could come a bit later.

I know I sound a bit pompous but ...

If the gun is the one in the sock draw, yes - a revolver with a mild but decent load is a reasonable choice. What - no one will say a 12 gauge pump - what kind of forum experts do we have here. :p

We have a preacher and some of his security folk who shoot with us at matches all the time. Great friends.

[Gray01]

My answer for the "what " question invariably takes a Socratic turn.

I see the question (from the initiate) in the same light as someone asking "what kind of knife, what kind of saw, what kind of tool" should I obtain. A proper answer for such must address the intended use in the intended context or circumstances. "What kind of knife should I buy?" "What do you intend to cut"? (As always, the mission drives the gear.)

Also, as firmly as possible, the answer should include training of the rules of safety as a first step before ever touching a firearm. In teaching (similar to "imprinting desired behavior in animals"), pathways are formed either intentionally or not. I prefer to exclude the wrong as much as possible so that the student does not have internalized "multiple choice" even by accident. It is, I think, also why females are somewhat easier to train; they often come with zero experience and there is much optimized from a clean writing surface.

So, imprint the safety so that it is indelible, identify the intended use (including the context), select the weapon system, train for the most realistic "highest probability" situation.

[Cypher]

I think my question isn't so much what would you recommend as why would you recommend it. The Pastor asked what and he didn't want to hear my answer to that question.

If it happened today I'd recommend a 9mm pistol because 9mm is inexpensive, readily available, has low recoil and is perfectly adequate for defensive use.

I'd recommend he start looking at a Glock or an M&P because they are simple to operate, readily available, inexpensive (especially if you're looking the pre 2.0 M&Ps), and are easy to find accessories for.

Even though I agree a Shield would be an excellent starter gun I wouldn't recommend a specific gun but let them try them all to see what fits right for them.

Of course, now that I have an answer formulated I'm positive no one will ever ask me again.

[Cypher]

I wouldn't recommend a gun first. I would take him to the range or suggest training with an intro course - assuming he has no such experience. Excuse me, if I misread the situation. Then I would get him to some competitions.

I don't have that kind of relationship with this guy, which is part of the reason I directed him to someone I know did.


If you are going to use a gun in a stress full, crowded, parishioners panicking situation - the choice between several quality handguns could come a bit later.

I don't know but I don't think he would carry while he was preaching although I know some of our Pastors do.


I know I sound a bit pompous but ...

If the gun is the one in the sock draw, yes - a revolver with a mild but decent load is a reasonable choice. What - no one will say a 12 gauge pump - what kind of forum experts do we have here. :p

I don't know if he carries now I've been told he doesn't feel prepared to shoot someone in self defense I've also been told his wife does carry and has no such qualms but I don't have that first hand so as far as I'm concerned I don't have it. I think he does own a shotgun and does hunt.

[Cypher]

What would you tell someone who is an acquaintance of yours (but not your inner circle) if they asked you and how would you explain your recommendations?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

While I don't expect you to know his mind, is he not prepared to shoot someone on a skills level or a philosophical level? I've heard the latter called the Question - maybe from Mas.

In training, I've seen two people look at the gun and say not for me. One was watching AR-15 usage on targets. The other was in a FOF where she came up against another opponent (Female also) and froze. She said I can't do this and dropped out. Quite a reasonable decision if she feels this way.

Dan MacKnown at the Tacoma Mall is the best and tragic example of not acting.

No criticism of the pastor is intended. Just having a conversation.

[willie]

In the past I worked at a shop with an indoor range and taught many people to shoot. Using my own weapons, I soon learned what a person was comfortable with. I was adept at teaching double action revolver shooting. Frequently I suggested using a 4 inch S&W Model 10 as a home defense weapon. For those with large hands I suggested the Beretta 92 double action only for home defense. I recommended J frames as carry guns more than others. I never recommended Glocks as a first weapon because I almost never had students that would continue to practice and study after my rudimentary instruction. The range's walls and ceiling were pocked with several hundred holes from negligent discharges. I refused to become a certified chl instructor. I saw so many dummies pass through the range that I wanted zero part of teaching people that I did not choose or agree to teach.

Recently I spent three hours advising a young man about reloading and showed him how to get started with good equipment and not overspend. I also planned to donate some of my stuff though I did not say do. He completely ignored the advice. This reaction seems to occur often in our hobby.

[Duces Tecum]

This is another of those questions that have many answers, depending on . . .

Sometimes an actionable response requires the inquirer to participate in the answer. He should at least be able to tell you what he's wants the tool to help him do.

If what's needed is a tool to facilitate defense from a personal attack, I think it's beneficial to explain that there are many ways a person could be attacked, and nobody really knows how something like that might play out. Did it happen while the victim was seated? If so, the preferred sidearm would probably be a service pistol carried AIWB. If it happened while the victim was standing, perhaps a J-frame in a front pocket would be the selection of choice. Was the attack within mugging distance, or across the parking lot? Was there a single threat, or many? Each of these scenarios dictate a separate "best" gun (action / caliber / size / capacity).

Given the unknowables, the Pastor's question answers itself: a general purpose, line-of-best-fit sidearm that probably does nothing best but everything adequately. The FBI and a majority of the nation's police departments, when faced with a similar question, settled on 9mm Glocks.

[Stephanie B]

How would you answer that question from an acquaintance ? Not so much what would you recommend (because around here I know it would be a Glock43/26/19) but how would you recommend it?
By taking my friend to a range where he or she could handle and then test-shoot multiple guns.

[Totem Polar]

I will usually invite people if our schedules line up. Otherwise I'll recommend a few things and point them to a gun shop that has a decent selection of rental guns.

I can dig it. I’m not widely known as a gun guy, so if someone is coming to me, it’s by rare warm referral/word of mouth, and they typically have an emergent reason. Mostly women, with only one recent exception; predominantly LGBT concerned with self-protection. I’ve sold an ass-ton of G42s for the local places, and it’s not even my favorite tool.

Sure is a lovable little critter for the new shooter of all shapes and sizes though. Seeing the gun through the eyes of neophytes is the main reason that it’s grown on me, while the 43 really hasn’t.

But I digress.

[Clusterfrack]

I've had lots of people ask if/what I am carrying and my answer is almost always "no". Around here, there are so many people looking for a reason to get in an anti-gun, anti-CCW argument.

I agree that getting good basic handgun training is more important that what gun to choose. But, for most people with average strength, a Glock 19 and a quality holster is an easy answer.

[BehindBlueI's]

I wouldn't recommend a gun first. I would take him to the range or suggest training with an intro course - assuming he has no such experience. Excuse me, if I misread the situation. Then I would get him to some competitions.

If you are going to use a gun in a stress full, crowded, parishioners panicking situation - the choice between several quality handguns could come a bit later.


While I think this is a logical and admirable way to approach it, I also suspect that many people asking are just looking for a quick answer and by the time the proposed outing come around they've bought a Taurus Judge based on someone else's input. Maybe someone on commission, maybe someone who's just had their ego stroked by being looked at as the expert to ask, etc. I'm also assuming that it's someone you don't really know or know only in passing.

I'm also really kind of moving past the "put a bunch of guns in their hand" idea. That's been a go to for me for most of the years as well. But I look at large organizations that push through a lot of ok-ish (aka acceptable) level shooters using one gun. Unless you're hands are way outside the normal, guns are pretty fungible for the beginner. They don't yet know what they don't yet know, so what are they looking for? Put a rimfire in their hand, teach them the basics, put a 9mm in their hand, then see if they blossom into shooters or revert to sock drawer carry.

[RJ]

I think this is general discussion.

This occurred one morning at church several months ago. I was on my way to the coffee machine to get a cup of coffee when the Pastor walked up and asked me what kind of gun I was carrying and what kind of gun I would recommend for his first gun.

(I want to clarify that he didn't pick me at random, I was on the church security team and he knew it because he had to give final approval.)

The question caught me off guard, it wasn't something I walked around preparing and answer to until it happened. I ended up telling him to take one of the associate pastors who was a retired cop down to Family Firearms Sales and tell the owner he was from our church and I'd sent him (the owner gave anyone from our church a discount) and go shopping.

FWIW he ended up with a Glock 43 or maybe a 42.

How would you answer that question from an acquaintance ? Not so much what would you recommend (because around here I know it would be a Glock43/26/19) but how would you recommend it?

“What I carry makes sense for me. I have gotten training with it and practice with it regularly.

A carry gun for you? Well, that depends on your particular situation. What are you familiar with, shooting?

Would you say you are a beginner, intermediate or advanced shooter? Are you willing to take some good training and follow through with practice?

What is your initial and ongoing budget for training?

Based on the responses to those and related follow-on questions, let’s work on selecting an initial option and go from there. Let’s start by taking a look at this Glock 19, right here...”

[Cypher]

While I don't expect you to know his mind, is he not prepared to shoot someone on a skills level or a philosophical level? I've heard the latter called the Question - maybe from Mas.

In training, I've seen two people look at the gun and say not for me. One was watching AR-15 usage on targets. The other was in a FOF where she came up against another opponent (Female also) and froze. She said I can't do this and dropped out. Quite a reasonable decision if she feels this way.

Dan MacKnown at the Tacoma Mall is the best and tragic example of not acting.

No criticism of the pastor is intended. Just having a conversation.

I was told it was on a philosophical level and that he decided not to carry until he got The Question answered.

I didn't take anything you've said as a criticism

[Cypher]

I've had lots of people ask if/what I am carrying and my answer is almost always "no". Around here, there are so many people looking for a reason to get in an anti-gun, anti-CCW argument.

Ordinarily I would agree but in this specific instance the person asking had all my training records on file, had a copy of my CHP on file and had a copy of my background check on file. There wasn't any telling him "no."

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My friend Karl Rehn studied untrained newbies vs. trained folks and found, IIRC, that at close distances the beginners had somewhat comparable accuracy to trained folks. It was shove the gun out in front of you and pull the trigger at a large mass. It is a version of the modal, one opponent gun usage where 5 is enough most of the time.

Increasing distances in a crowded environment is a different game - as in a church scenario. I have a good friend who I have moved from the Taurus 85 to the Glock 26. He does practice on the square range but getting him to a class or competition is resisted. He is a Viet Nam and has carried a gun for real. I'm not so worried about him.

About the question, this comes to me from our discussion. The pastor might want to actually take a beginning FOF exercise. That's where I saw folks freeze. Besides the shooters, I mentioned - I saw one where a guy who had proclaimed his MA mastery to all, get frozen in place and then knocked on his butt in a 'mugging'. Not news to folks here, but some FOF is intense. Folks have to be told to breathe slowly and calm down. One gun had to be talked out of his Sims gun.

It's good explore one's philosophical bases before committing to an action plan (meaning as a paradigm).

[Alpha Sierra]

What would you tell someone who is an acquaintance of yours (but not your inner circle) if they asked you and how would you explain your recommendations?

I had that happen to me. Close acquaintance asked about a house gun. No intention to carry outside the home despite going through the trouble of getting a CHL. I asked why and his reply was that he wanted to understand the law. I asked him why didn't he pay the same money to an attorney for a Q&A, as he would get better answers. Blank stare......

I spent a good hour and a half with him in my gun room. Let him try mid size and compact revolver and semi autos. Took him to the range and let him try same, plus let him fire an 870 loaded with buck. Despite my recommendations to the contrary, he went with a Ruger LCR.

Semi autos are too risky. If I need more than five rounds I'm screwed anyway. Those were the gist of his reasoning.

THAT is why I don't bother with this shit any more. I figured this out on my own by researching, reading, trying, and speaking to a real attorney about the liabilities. I figure others can take the same initiative if they care enough.

[Alpha Sierra]

I agree that getting good basic handgun training is more important that what gun to choose. But, for most people with average strength, a Glock 19 and a quality holster is an easy answer.

I'm with Daryl Bolke on the 4" mid size revolver deal for the non-serious handgun user

[Gray01]

I'm with Daryl Bolke on the 4" mid size revolver deal for the non-serious handgun user

I have no problems with revolvers, or any DA firearm. There is one issue that can be problematic: age related orthopedic issues. I (and my wife) have sufficient age-related issues such that smoothly operating a DA trigger is now beyond us. In an emergency we can "yank" the trigger, but with zero finesse or fine control.

This is probably something that should be considered and tested for prior to selecting the DA modality.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

That's a good point. My revolver skills feel the tug of age. I'm waiting for the day before the Grim Reaper arrives. I can still shoot a SW 1911Sc Commander's 45 ACP without trouble or a 9 mm Glock. My wrist does tingle a tad. It is prone to arthritis due to a bad break years ago. My orthopedic surgeon said that will happen. If it shuts down, I switch hands (not a problem) or I can see my Buckmark being the gun of choice - with all its stopping power hoohah.

I've mentioned I like the J frame 632 or 432 with 32 HR mags as a revolver but the trigger pull needs practice.

[jwperry]

As usual, I agree with everything BehindBlueI's has said.

Why do I always recommend the 9mm Shield:

-Entry price point is low enough most won't scoff. I have friends with $1000 fishing rods (just the rod, not the reel mind you) and they won't spend more than $300 on a family defense weapon.:rolleyes:
-Accessories are as prominent as Glock accessories in all the local stores around me.
-Small enough to be a "checklist" gun and big enough to be a a full time gun if required.
-9x19 > 9x17
-Easy to handle in both size and recoil.
-Thumb safety model available (seems to still be a requirement for a lot of non-shooters I know)

[Darth_Uno]

I don't dispense advice unless I'm asked for it. But if I'm asked, I'll tell you what I think. You're free to disregard some or all of it - most people do.

It's tough though, because while I'd like to say set aside $2000 for a Glock 19, sights, 2 cases of ammo and an entry and mid-level class....they're not gonna do that. They don't want to get into the whole lifestyle, they just want a gun that'll go bang and isn't a pain in the ass to carry all day. In which case I just hope you're not a statistical outlier and will "only need three rounds", and suggest weapons they're more likely to carry. It's an "if you're not going to do X, at least do Y" type deal.

[Nephrology]

As usual, I agree with everything BehindBlueI's has said.

Why do I always recommend the 9mm Shield:

-Entry price point is low enough most won't scoff. I have friends with $1000 fishing rods (just the rod, not the reel mind you) and they won't spend more than $300 on a family defense weapon.:rolleyes:
-Accessories are as prominent as Glock accessories in all the local stores around me.
-Small enough to be a "checklist" gun and big enough to be a a full time gun if required.
-9x19 > 9x17
-Easy to handle in both size and recoil.
-Thumb safety model available (seems to still be a requirement for a lot of non-shooters I know)

Agreed, it's not a bad choice.

I usually suggest a new 9mm made by a trusted manufacturer in the size of their choice. I usually suggest a list of trusted manufacturers (basically anyone that has ever won a major military or LE contract) and give them a spiel on why to stick to that list.

[Clusterfrack]

Sorry dudes, negative opinion here. I dislike the Shield. The slide is short but the grip is relatively long, making it an odd form factor for CCW. The backstrap is narrow and hard to get much hand behind. It's easy for beginners to steer the gun without a decently wide backstrap. And like other M&Ps, the grip shape "feels good", but is ambiguous in the hand (difficult to maintain a consistent index). I've worked with several guys who struggled with accuracy with their Shields, but didn't once they tried a Glock.

[Duelist]

Sorry dudes, negative opinion here. I dislike the Shield. The slide is short but the grip is relatively long, making it an odd form factor for CCW. The backstrap is narrow and hard to get much hand behind. It's easy for beginners to steer the gun without a decently wide backstrap. And like other M&Ps, the grip shape "feels good", but is ambiguous in the hand (difficult to maintain a consistent index). I've worked with several guys who struggled with accuracy with their Shields, but didn't once they tried a Glock.

Didn’t need like mine either, but I know a lot of people who love them.

[Baldanders]

If I couldn't get the individual over to my place to shoot, I'd recommend that he go to a rental range and try a few guns that seem to fit, and choose accordingly.

[Baldanders]

If the above isn't possible I'd suggest 1) Glock 19 2)Smith & Wesson equivalent 3)anything similar by Walther, SIG, or Springfield 4) any Ruger or S&W 6 shot .38/.357. "But if you're serious, buy a .22 first."

[olstyn]

Presuming the question is genuine (yeah, we did that thread before, I know), I'd explain my personal choices *and* that those choices may not be one size fits all, but that something in 9mm from pretty much any of Glock, H&K, S&W, Walther, Beretta, etc., will serve them well, and that I'd be happy to let them try my Walthers to get an idea as a starting point. If that conversation/offer goes anywhere, great. If not, then at least I tried, and if they buy a Taurus, I can legitimately say it's not my fault.

[BehindBlueI's]

Sorry dudes, negative opinion here. I dislike the Shield. The slide is short but the grip is relatively long, making it an odd form factor for CCW. The backstrap is narrow and hard to get much hand behind. It's easy for beginners to steer the gun without a decently wide backstrap. And like other M&Ps, the grip shape "feels good", but is ambiguous in the hand (difficult to maintain a consistent index). I've worked with several guys who struggled with accuracy with their Shields, but didn't once they tried a Glock.

I'm sure there are better guns out there. I'm sure not everyone likes the Shield. I'm not a fan of the factory sights and would prefer more texture on the grip panels. None of that changes my default recommendation because the availability and the price point matters more to who I perceive the target audience to be in this particular hypothetical. It's not competing with the Glock 19. It's competing with the Taurus TCP and SCCY whatever.

[willie]

I use grip tape to assist with 9mm Shield grip problems. The .45 version fits me better.

[fixer]

Haven't yet read all replies...but this is a good thread.

I get asked this a lot from various people from complete noobs all the way to precision rifle folks who want to up the game on the pistol side of things (either start carrying, or just learning).

I try a bit of education about the different types of guns and the benefits and drawbacks of each. i.e SFA vs DA/SA vs SAO vs revolver vs mag fed pistol.

This usually, if not invariably, leads to some good soul searching or reflection on what they are trying to accomplish.

Then they can get to prioritization

Then they can select appropriately.

The only time it gets dicey is when someone has confirmation bias towards super-bargain pistols.

[jwperry]

Sorry dudes, negative opinion here. I dislike the Shield. The slide is short but the grip is relatively long, making it an odd form factor for CCW. The backstrap is narrow and hard to get much hand behind. It's easy for beginners to steer the gun without a decently wide backstrap. And like other M&Ps, the grip shape "feels good", but is ambiguous in the hand (difficult to maintain a consistent index). I've worked with several guys who struggled with accuracy with their Shields, but didn't once they tried a Glock.

Which series Glock; double stack or single stack?

[Clusterfrack]

Which series Glock; double stack or single stack?

Either, but the 43 is the most comparable to the Shield, and I like it much better.

[Bergeron]

I have an ulterior motive in this situation- I really want to make a new shooter, and I keep trying to figure out what the effective strategies are to accomplish that goal.

I feel like so many potential new gun owners are so tightly focused on defending themselves, on concealed carry and/or home defense that they don’t realize that this can be a lot of fun, and that skill takes practice, and without any fun it’s so much harder to enthusiastically practice.

While I tend to end up breaking out the range bag o’ guns and I find that starts to guide some decisions/preferences.

I feel like a winning strategy would be to tell them to buy a no-kidding gun belt, eye & ear pro, and once they do, I’ll treat them to a day at the range.

I discussed in a previous thread how I wish I had a 9mm Lightweight Commander to hang out with a holster, some mags and ammo to newbies. I just got a 92 Centurion, ave once I get VZ ultra-thins on the gun and a TJIAB in it, it’ll be well-suited to bring the loaner newbie gun.

If someone was pushing for advice on models inside the space of a conversation, the first thing I would do would be to tell them what to stay away from: Kel-Tec, Taurus, SCCY, Honor Guard, etc.

I think it’s important to narrow the field as much as possible if asked, so my response would be Glock 19 or Beretta PX4 Compact Carry, and if those won’t work, come back and tell me why and we’ll go from there.

[jwperry]

Either, but the 43 is the most comparable to the Shield, and I like it much better.

That's nearly opposite my experience; for single stack most folks I know prefer the Beretta Nano or S&W Shield over the G43. The statement being that the G43 is too snappy.

[RevolverRob]

Well, I got asked this question a lot when I worked selling guns.

And my default was to ask a couple of other questions, "Do you intend to carry it all the time, some of the time, or do you think it'll end up on the nightstand?"

You'd be surprised how honest the answers are. And then I'd make some recommendations based on the answers.

In my experience the first thing people think they want is a lightweight gun. But most people understand physics (at least in a general sense) and will quickly get that lighter guns recoil harder than heavier guns. So you can move folks from an Airweight J to a mid-sized handgun pretty quickly.

The next is trigger pull, some folks want a heavy one (for safety), but most want a fairly light and straight pull. This tends to make things pretty easy.

Finally, grip fit. I sold A LOT of M&Ps before Glock got with the program and did interchangeable backstraps.

For people with the nightstand approach, I recommended the biggest gun they could comfortably hold.

For actual, factual, concealed carry I recommend the smallest .380 or 9mm gun they could reasonable hold and work all of the necessary components on.

Back in those days (Pre-Shield, Pre-G42/43) the Kahrs and the Taurus PT111, were among the best sellers we had.

The latter, whether you want to admit it or not, was actually a very solid choice at the time. This was Gen1, not Gen2. They had high visibility 3-dot sights at first, then later some had fairly nice Heinies on them, a thumb safety that was easy to deactivate if you wanted it, or it was perfectly safe without it (and it did not accidentally put itself on), and a very slim grip, that fit lots of hands from big to small. Just big enough to shoot well, still hold 12 + 1. And it had a lot of little features that folks like, like a cocked striker indicator and a load chamber indicator. Yea, it was a Taurus, if you shot more than a 1000 rounds it would go back for repair. But unlike most of their shitty guns, the PT111 for some reason worked pretty consistently (at least in 9mm and .45, the .40 guns were hot garbage, so where the .380s ones). Most importantly, it could be bought for the grand sum of $250 and came with two 12-round mags. Which made it a real bargain at the time, when the other comparable 9mm handgun was the Sigma (the crappy one not the SV9E).

Nowadays, with a much better compact-sized handgun selection on the market (Jesus this was only a dozen years ago, now). I'd put the G42, G43, LCP II, Shield, EZ .380, Kahr C-series (which didn't exist back then), and the LCR/K6/New Cobra all ahead of those things from back in the day.

[Bergeron]

That’s some great insight, RevolverRob .

I find it’s difficult to quantify and easily explain quality in guns. It seems more intangible than it ought to be.

Exactly to your point, about a year and a half ago I was talking to a slightly older gentleman, and the talk turned to guns and shooting. He showed me his off-brand stubby 1911, then his Taurus. It was exactly like you said- he valued the features- the thumb safety and the size-weight-capacity.

One of my challenges in helping someone pick a gun is getting the point made that features and handfeel are trumped by quality and prior organizational vetting.

Unless you are in challenging circumstances and have an immediate need (which happens! And is nothing I’ll ever look down on!) guns are not expensive. Ammo’s expensive.

And quality belts and holsters are like magic anti-gravity devices.

[Medusa]

I bought one of those original pt-111 9s when they came out, and it served me well in situations where the 92 wasn’t a carry option, especially when training on a road bike. I found it surprisingly accurate and fairly pleasant to shoot.

When I got back into shooting this year, though, and woke my weapons from their long slumber, I found out about the pt-111 class action when I was trying to get replacement mag springs. Contacted Taurus and they asked me to send her back, so I did.

It’s a real measure of progress how much better the Sig p365 I got to replace her is, and how much smaller.






Back in those days (Pre-Shield, Pre-G42/43) the Kahrs and the Taurus PT111, were among the best sellers we had.

The latter, whether you want to admit it or not, was actually a very solid choice at the time. This was Gen1, not Gen2. They had high visibility 3-dot sights at first, then later some had fairly nice Heinies on them, a thumb safety that was easy to deactivate if you wanted it, or it was perfectly safe without it (and it did not accidentally put itself on), and a very slim grip, that fit lots of hands from big to small. Just big enough to shoot well, still hold 12 + 1. And it had a lot of little features that folks like, like a cocked striker indicator and a load chamber indicator. Yea, it was a Taurus, if you shot more than a 1000 rounds it would go back for repair. But unlike most of their shitty guns, the PT111 for some reason worked pretty consistently (at least in 9mm and .45, the .40 guns were hot garbage, so where the .380s ones). Most importantly, it could be bought for the grand sum of $250 and came with two 12-round mags. Which made it a real bargain at the time, when the other comparable 9mm handgun was the Sigma (the crappy one not the SV9E).

Nowadays, with a much better compact-sized handgun selection on the market (Jesus this was only a dozen years ago, now). I'd put the G42, G43, LCP II, Shield, EZ .380, Kahr C-series (which didn't exist back then), and the LCR/K6/New Cobra all ahead of those things from back in the day.

[RevolverRob]

I bought one of those original pt-111 9s when they came out, and it served me well in situations where the 92 wasn’t a carry option, especially when training on a road bike. I found it surprisingly accurate and fairly pleasant to shoot.

When I got back into shooting this year, though, and woke my weapons from their long slumber, I found out about the pt-111 class action when I was trying to get replacement mag springs. Contacted Taurus and they asked me to send her back, so I did.

I honestly found out about that lawsuit when I searched it to remember the model number of the 9mm guns. No clue that was a thing. Kind of a shame, because, they really were pretty comfy guns to hold and shoot. I think it's that ridiculously thin grip, which is something the Kahr CW9 has for instance. It's very easy to get a firm grip on it, without having to grip the shit out of it.



It’s a real measure of progress how much better the Sig p365 I got to replace her is, and how much smaller.

This is very true. I think we're all lucky to be spoiled for choice these days in the compact 9mm realm. The guns are smaller, yet better built, and easier to shoot. Though I still prefer a compact revolver for pocket/no big gun carry. I am in the increasing minority and I can't articulate a good set reasons for preferring the revolver of a P365 or a G43, except strictly personal preference.

[OlongJohnson]

Sorry dudes, negative opinion here. I dislike the Shield. The slide is short but the grip is relatively long, making it an odd form factor for CCW. The backstrap is narrow and hard to get much hand behind. It's easy for beginners to steer the gun without a decently wide backstrap. And like other M&Ps, the grip shape "feels good", but is ambiguous in the hand (difficult to maintain a consistent index). I've worked with several guys who struggled with accuracy with their Shields, but didn't once they tried a Glock.

I have never been able to dry fire a Shield without the front sight snapping up and to the right. Also, I'm done ever recommending an S&W to anybody. I can't seem to get one that doesn't need fixing - sometimes minor, sometimes major and expensive. New or old, semi or revo, buy the gun, then pay a gunsmith if you want it to work right. Although a revo will probably be fine with sock drawer duty.

I could dry fire a P938 with a steady front sight, so I got one. Then figured out that anything like a secure grip in my hands puts the knuckle of my thumb in line with the corner of the slide. Also, at 3:00 carry, it was still obvious there was something under my shirt. My shirts hang straight enough down from my pits that the asymmetry was unmissable. Once you make the decision to go AIWB, you can actually conceal a significantly larger gun. If I wanted that manual of arms, a 1911 Commander would be on the menu. Did well enough buying the P938 that the new owner got a deal at the LGS and I didn't lose more than a few bucks. The downside of that experience was it got me looking at the inside of a Sig, which got me to pay attention to other Sigs, which got expensive.

I picked up an LCP Custom because it became super cheep and I was curious. Eventually realized it was the source of some serious problems I was having with my strong hand index finger. It was so small relative to my hands that even with a vise grip, I couldn't control recoil well enough to prevent it injuring me.

G19 is the default, but a noob won't put in a NY1/- and Gadget combo; I couldn't recommend it without that setup.

The one recommendation I'm confident I could stand behind as a universal, concealable, reliable, durable, all-around excellent firearm is a Universal Self-loading Pistol, Compact. It's even still on the CA roster, last I checked. But it's expensive enough to reasonably expect the recommendation to be ignored.