DA revolver-like trigger in a SFA?

[awp_101]

I'm certain this has been discussed before but I can't put together the right string of search terms to get anything besides 700 pages of results or 0 results.

I know I've seen something about changing springs in a Glock to get a "more revolver-like" trigger (NY something?) but are there other choices that have a DA revolver-like trigger? Maybe the AS model Walthers? This isn't something I'd be looking to carry or use as a nightstand gun, it's just an idea I'm interested in pursuing for some reason.

Thanks!

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm just regurgitating info, as I've only shot one once and have limited recall of it, but the P250 seems to come up as a "revolver like" choice fairly often.

[oldtexan]

In terms of the distance the trigger moves, smoothness of the trigger stroke, and its rolling break, the Kahr trigger seems 'revolver-like'. It does, however, require slide movement to reset the trigger for the next shot. The pull weights of Kahr triggers, IME, are about 6-7 lbs.

[Sal Picante]

Kahr pistols have a long, smooth trigger, much like a nice revolver. They are striker fired.

[awp_101]

Thanks I’ll start keeping an eye out.

I thought the P250 was hammer fired? I know where one is so I’ll probably check it out first. What I have in mind is closer to G19 size.

[Jeep]

Thanks I’ll start keeping an eye out.

I thought the P250 was hammer fired? I know where one is so I’ll probably check it out first. What I have in mind is closer to G19 size.

If you want the feel of a revolver, you might find that DAO Beretta 92s are very, very close, though admittedly they are hammer fired.

[JonInWA]

D model Beretta 92, as Jeep mentioned, 3rd Generation Smith & Wesson DAO semi-autos, possibly Beretta PX4 C and D models (I've never personally handled or shot them, so my recommendation is largely conjecture).

A Beretta 92D would be my first recommendation, as they're relatively easy to find, and there's superb factory and aftermarket support, especially thanks to Ernest Langdon at LTT and Bill Wilson at Wilson Combat.

Best, Jon

[HCM]

Thanks I’ll start keeping an eye out.

I thought the P250 was hammer fired? I know where one is so I’ll probably check it out first. What I have in mind is closer to G19 size.

The P250 is hammer fired.

[BehindBlueI's]

Thanks I’ll start keeping an eye out.

I thought the P250 was hammer fired? I know where one is so I’ll probably check it out first. What I have in mind is closer to G19 size.

Sorry, I missed the "stiker fired" requirement. The P250 is hammer fired, but the hammer doesn't look like a hammer and is visible but not exposed when the gun is "at rest".

[awp_101]

A 92D (or at least the to end) is on the list of stuff I'd like to pick up one day but right now I'm looking for striker options at the moment.

NP BBI, I'm not familiar enough with SIGs not numbered 220/226/226 to know for sure if the 250 was a striker or a sort of concealed hammer.

[Rex G]

If it just has to be striker-fired, the Glock NY-1 trigger return spring/module is a way. Its trigger travel distance, however, remains the same; there is no DA-revolver-like long-stroke added to the equation.

The “thing” in the early 2000s was to install the 3.5# connector, and the NY-1 module. Many revolver shooters finally learned to like Glock, with this set-up. This was, of course, the time of the Gen3. The recipe may be different with Gen4 and Gen5.

I will assert that the better mousetrap is SIG DAK, but that is hammer-fired. I transitioned to SIG DAK in 2004, from Glock, for duty, immediately, and then, for most personal-time carry, by some time in 2006.

[medmo]

Beretta Nano is a SFA with a very DA-ish trigger.

[Shoresy]

For pure SFA, Kahr comes immediately to mind.

[Alpha Sierra]

What's the big deal about how the firing pin works? It's not part of the shooter/handgun interface. So why is it that important?

Help me understand.

Of the DAO handguns I've tried (not many) the PX4 type C comes the closest to a well tuned S&W revolver trigger (something I know extremely well).

[RevolverRob]

Striker-Fired DAO close to a revolver - Kahr.

Hammer-Fired DAO guns close to a revolver: 92D, 3rd Gen Smith DAOs, Ruger P-Series DAOs, and HK LEM V2 (all heavy springs)

The Kahr is pretty close with respect to its rolling pull and its reset, the 92D and 3rd Gen Smiths are pretty good too. The P-Series DAOs and V2 LEMs are quite a bit farther away in terms of weight and reset length.

[YVK]

Glock 19x [I presume any Gen5] with a Ghost 3.3 or whatever the name of that connector and reduced power striker spring. I have always wanted to have some roll in my Glock triggers. That one, I actually went back to an OEM connector even in my gaming Glock.

[awp_101]

Thanks, the questions are helping me refine my thought process for the what and the why.

Last Sunday I shot striker pistols for the first time in a long time (3 ZEV, 2 FN). I liked them well enough but sort of missed the DA trigger pull. That got me to wondering about Glock trigger springs and such to see if I could approximate the pulls from my Berettas or P30. Then I tried to remember what other striker pistols had been described as having the type of trigger I’m looking for.

The more I think about it, I’m more interested in the weight than the longer pull. If I could approximate that, I could see getting one of those non-Glock Glock frames and building up something for fun.

[Clusterfrack]

Striker-Fired DAO close to a revolver - Kahr.

Hammer-Fired DAO guns close to a revolver: 92D, 3rd Gen Smith DAOs, Ruger P-Series DAOs, and HK LEM V2 (all heavy springs)

The Kahr is pretty close with respect to its rolling pull and its reset, the 92D and 3rd Gen Smiths are pretty good too. The P-Series DAOs and V2 LEMs are quite a bit farther away in terms of weight and reset length.


Glock 19x [I presume any Gen5] with a Ghost 3.3 or whatever the name of that connector and reduced power striker spring. I have always wanted to have some roll in my Glock triggers. That one, I actually went back to an OEM connector even in my gaming Glock.

It’s so interesting how individual trigger preference is. You’ve described exactly what I don’t like in a trigger. I prefer a 2-stage trigger with a crisp wall in rifles and pistols, defense and gamer. No surprises.

I do agree that it is a very good idea to explore different trigger mechanics. The DA pulls in my CZs have made me a better shooter.

[JonInWA]

I've experimented with the NY1 and NY2 on my Gen 3 Glocks, in conjunction with minus or dot connectors, and several triggerbars (standard Gen 3 and the later Gen 3 that was provided in conjunction with the introduction of the Gen4).

Almost no one that I know of, individually or organizationally uses the orange NY2. I experimentally ran it for a season in my Gen 3 G21, in conjunction with a dot connector. It actually felt and ran well, but after 3 magazines, my triggerfinger was tired to the point that accuracy suffered, so I'm currently running it with a NY1, but the NY2 was certainly interesting, and I may re-experiment with it.

On my Gen4 G22, the OEM dot connector and coil triggerspring provide a quite nice rolling break, so I'm leaving well enough alone. Glock sources tell me that the NY springs provide a mushy feel with the Gen4 Glocks, and I believe that the only organization running with them is a Canadian police department-I don't know which one, or if Glock did any further specific tuning to the guns.

Glocks have very individualized triggerpull feels by gun, so it can be very worthwhile to experiment with the various connectors and springs. I only use OEM Glock components in mine.

It's also critical to lubricate the triggerbar and conenctor interfaces-I use Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2 grease, which lasts for quite a bit of time without migrating or evaporating. I also use TW25B on my Glock 19; both work flawlessly.

I don't have a Gen5 yet, but I've consistently heard good things on their triggerpulls, so when I get one, I'll probably leave well enough alone, as I've elected to do with my Gen4 G22.

Best, Jon

[RevolverRob]

It’s so interesting how individual trigger preference is. You’ve described exactly what I don’t like in a trigger. I prefer a 2-stage trigger with a crisp wall in rifles and pistols, defense and gamer. No surprises.

I do agree that it is a very good idea to explore different trigger mechanics. The DA pulls in my CZs have made me a better shooter.

I can describe triggers I like fairly easily. Anything that isn’t mushy. I find Glocks and M&Ps spongy or mushy, it drives me up a wall, because I don’t get the feedback I want or need from them. Other examples of mushy triggers - Browning .25s - some of the worst triggers on guns.

I prefer a two-stage trigger in rifles and pistols too. In fact, most of my precision revolver work is done “staged”. But I don’t mind a rolling break as long as the weight is consistent and the break is clean. Worst I’ve ever experienced was the DA pull on an Erma RX22. It had a heavy, stacking, pull that broke with such a weight let off that it was virtually impossible to not jar the gun. I practiced for months and could not avoid pulling the DA shot. I thought I was broken, then got a Ruger P95 with a decocker and had no problem shooting it DA.

On rifles, I definitely prefer a two-stage competition type trigger with about a 3-pound final break. I also like set triggers and find then fun to shoot.

[Clusterfrack]

Don’t get me started on M&Ps... I don’t find most Glock triggers to be mushy, as long as you press through the wall fairly quickly.

[spinmove_]

I find Glock triggers are best if you simply run them without thinking too much about them. Just prep and press as efficiently as you can and just manage the sights. As soon as you start trying to dissect how a Glock trigger feels you stop focusing on what’s actually important.

That being said, a little polishing of the connector and trigger bar and firing pin block plunger, a minus connector, and generous amounts of dryfire and live fire and it’ll smooth right out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

awp_101, how about a LCP 1? That’s a cheap solution.

[OlongJohnson]

Had a Gen3 G34. It came with a minus connector, I swapped in a NY1 spring. Was actually kinda OK. Decided to send it down the road for other reasons, and put it back to stock before taking it to the LGS. The trigger press with the stock spring was much less what I like.

I have a couple P250s in sub calibers. They are inherently very smooth, and the small amount of smoothing there is to do to smooth them out is intuitive and mechanically very low risk. The result is outstanding. Light and super slick. The P250/320 grip frame system is awesome. Grip modules are ~$30, so you can trim/shape/stipple whatever you want and the cost of your time is greater than the cost of parts. They point just like a classic Sig for me. Big fan.

I had an SD9VE. I worked the roughness out of every part of the trigger except the striker block plunger bore in the slide. The hole was drilled rough, and there was nothing I could do to smooth it out. Maybe if you NP3ed or NiBed the slide and resurfaced that bore... Mine went down the road. There were also two severe defects with it. The recoil spring guide rod assembly disassembled itself while sitting on the bench out of the gun. My solution was to cut a G17 guide rod to length and use it as a non-captured assembly with the S&W spring. Perfectly reliable, but less convenient to strip. The other one was a striker that was bent like a banana, so it always hit the side of the firing pin opening in the slide before emerging. Guessing there was an issue with light strikes or something that led the previous owner to dump it. S&W sent new parts to replace both defective ones, but still...

Have a 96D that is sweet. Similar to the P250 in the trigger mechanism, with the same advantages, and if I go this direction with 9mm, will probably mess with a 92D at some point. The police trade in guns are pretty rough. I'd jump on a privately-owned safe queen at the right price.

I've only ever handled one Kahr. The LGS had an all-stainless model on consignment. It was so badly in need of deburring and smoothing that the slide wouldn't go into battery by itself, and the trigger felt like it was full of sand. Turned me off on the brand. Might investigate it again if I live long enough.

The third-gen S&Ws can be nice, but they aren't supported by S&W with parts anymore, so it's like buying pre-lock revolvers and knowing you'll be scrounging used parts to keep them going if necessary. Also, they aren't like modern guns where you can generally just drop in parts and have it work. They are like 1911s, where a lot of the parts require expert fitting. There are fewer and fewer people working who were trained in those procedures and have the parts and tools to do the job right. The single stacks are unique, but the new Glocks may be an effective substitute. The double-stack 3rd-gen 9mms are not as good as more modern competitors, IMO. They are cheap, and if you aren't bothered by the idea of wearing them out and not being able to find parts, they may be an OK option. Trigger smoothness on the enhanced DAO 3rd-gen S&Ws ranges from deliciously slick to not that great.

[MattyD380]

I dry-fired a Kahr once. It still seemed a little too short/light to offer a true DA feel (and peace of mind). But that was one time, quite a while ago. This forum has some mixed reviews on Kahr, but I have to say the steel models have always caught my eye. If the trigger did feel like a good, smooth, reasonably long, adequately heavy DAO... I might be into it.

I picked my first revolver (66-1; 2.5) a few months ago. Damn. Really puts the potential of a good DA in perspective.

[CraigS]

Yes. A NY trigger spring and this bar. Ghost Edge
https://ghostinc.com/trigger-connectors/glock-connectors/

[M2CattleCo]

Don’t get me started on M&Ps... I don’t find most Glock triggers to be mushy, as long as you press through the wall fairly quickly.

Jerk it hard enough to not feel the mush and call it crisp. :cool:

[Chuck Whitlock]

I'm just regurgitating info, as I've only shot one once and have limited recall of it, but the P250 seems to come up as a "revolver like" choice fairly often.


Thanks I’ll start keeping an eye out.

I thought the P250 was hammer fired? I know where one is so I’ll probably check it out first. What I have in mind is closer to G19 size.

P250c is G19 sized. It is hammer-fired, but the hammer does not stand proud of the slide at rest.

[Rex G]

The Kahr trigger system has a shorter stroke than a DA revolver.

I had a Kahr K9, for a while, and that short stroke was annoying, in a neither-fish-nor-fowl way, as I was accustomed to my DA revolvers and 1911 pistols, and, had seriously used DA/SA, did not want to train-up with a fourth system, which I did not find intuitive.

[JAH 3rd]

D model Beretta 92, as Jeep mentioned, 3rd Generation Smith & Wesson DAO semi-autos, possibly Beretta PX4 C and D models (I've never personally handled or shot them, so my recommendation is largely conjecture).

A Beretta 92D would be my first recommendation, as they're relatively easy to find, and there's superb factory and aftermarket support, especially thanks to Ernest Langdon at LTT and Bill Wilson at Wilson Combat.

Best, Jon

I have a S&W 5906 DA/SA pistol. That first double action trigger pull reminds so much of a model 19. Straight through pull and clean break. Haven't shot a DAO 3rd generation S&W, but if they are anything like the DA trigger pull on my 5906 they ought to be nice.

[Chuck Whitlock]

The Kahr trigger system has a shorter stroke than a DA revolver.

I had a Kahr K9, for a while, and that short stroke was annoying, in a neither-fish-nor-fowl way, as I was accustomed to my DA revolvers and 1911 pistols, and, had seriously used DA/SA, did not want to train-up with a fourth system, which I did not find intuitive.

I find a lot of continuity between my P250c, Kahr K9/CW9, and SP101. The SP101's trigger is heavier.

[awp_101]

I had lots of time to think about this yesterday, a 12 hour road trip bringing a car from Colorado Springs to TX. Those who think I’m overthinking this are right but it’s the way my mind usually works. I’m going to percolate on this for a while before deciding what to do.


awp_101, how about a LCP 1? That’s a cheap solution.
I’m a Ruger fan but those are waaay too small.


I find a lot of continuity between my P250c, Kahr K9/CW9, and SP101. The SP101's trigger is heavier.
Is your 101 trigger stock or massaged? I know where a 250 is on consignment but every time I read up on them it seems like they’re somewhat problematic?

[awp_101]

I did think of one that I'd forgotten about. I had a brief fling with an XDm OSP and I think revolver-like is a good way to describe at least the one I had. But I don't feel like going down that particular road again...

[Daauto]

Berreta 92D
Go inside and polish starting with 800 grit to 2000 grit paper
Your Glock will become a safe Queen

[OlongJohnson]

I had lots of time to think about this yesterday, a 12 hour road trip bringing a car from Colorado Springs to TX. Those who think I’m overthinking this are right but it’s the way my mind usually works. I’m going to percolate on this for a while before deciding what to do.


I’m a Ruger fan but those are waaay too small.


Is your 101 trigger stock or massaged? I know where a 250 is on consignment but every time I read up on them it seems like they’re somewhat problematic?

The Gen 1 was garbage. Many of the reports you'll read on this site are from tip-of-the-spear types who were exposed to the early ones. Do some Googling to ID the later Gen 2 versions; at this point, most of what you'll see is the later version. They are well-regarded by those who like them.

I've had some issues with my P250 in .380, but that was unequivocally traced to Geco FMJ factory ammo where the flare at the case mouth wasn't straightened by crimping after seating the bullet. Running that lot of ammo through a case gauge and crimping all the rounds that didn't plunk perfectly has made it 100 percent reliable.

The only real criticism I've read that I think is still relevant is the trigger kickback. If you end up with the trigger in just the wrong position when the slide returns to battery, the trigger bar will kick the trigger forward. If you're moving your finger either slower, and the slide gets forward before you've released, or much faster, and you're all the way out before the slide gets back into battery, you won't be affected by this. Tamara has reported that it gets worse on the heavier kicking calibers; I suspect that's because of the stronger recoil spring.

Also, note that there continue to be revisions to the grip modules due to P320 development, so there are both significant and insignificant variations of grip modules that are all still considered Gen 2. I'm not aware of any significant functional differences between the small variations. The major difference involves the slide lock lever, and you can't mix old/new modules with new/old levers. But if you actually buy a new grip module rather than cheaping out and trying to save $10-15 bucks by buying used, it will come with the new slide lock lever.

[awp_101]

Sounds like trigger slap in an AK. BTDT...

[OlongJohnson]

Yeah, I think that's what Tam compared it to. It's the main reason I haven't bought one in anything heavier than .380 yet. But I do think it's likely the best non-micro .380 ever made. And I enjoy the heck out of the .22LR.

[10mmfanboy]

Kahr is the closest I've felt also in a striker pistol. I've messed around with glocks trying to get more of a rolling break. The gen 3 had pretty decent pulls with the ny1/minus connector. I used a more rounded safety plunger too. I tried it on gen 4 and it was horrible that way, even with a gen 3 trigger bar. I can't stand slop take up in triggers especially when it feels like no weight at all and then a abrupt wall. I'd rather have a consistent weight kind of take up.

[xray 99]

Walther P99AS?

[That Guy]

Walther P99AS?

While the first trigger pull is indeed very revolver-like, the following ones are short and crisp single action trigger pulls.

(Although my girlfriend's rescue P99, before the broken parts were replaced, was DA only... So you could modify one to be DAO. No idea how safe, reliable or durable such a modification would be though. No issues immediately pop into my mind, but I've never seriously considered such a modification.)

[Chuck Whitlock]

Is your 101 trigger stock or massaged? I know where a 250 is on consignment but every time I read up on them it seems like they’re somewhat problematic?

My SP101 is a highly polished version that Ruger used to offer, but don't anymore. I don't believe that anything was done to the internals.




The Gen 1 was garbage. Many of the reports you'll read on this site are from tip-of-the-spear types who were exposed to the early ones. Do some Googling to ID the later Gen 2 versions; at this point, most of what you'll see is the later version. They are well-regarded by those who like them.

I've had some issues with my P250 in .380, but that was unequivocally traced to Geco FMJ factory ammo where the flare at the case mouth wasn't straightened by crimping after seating the bullet. Running that lot of ammo through a case gauge and crimping all the rounds that didn't plunk perfectly has made it 100 percent reliable.

The only real criticism I've read that I think is still relevant is the trigger kickback. If you end up with the trigger in just the wrong position when the slide returns to battery, the trigger bar will kick the trigger forward. If you're moving your finger either slower, and the slide gets forward before you've released, or much faster, and you're all the way out before the slide gets back into battery, you won't be affected by this. Tamara has reported that it gets worse on the heavier kicking calibers; I suspect that's because of the stronger recoil spring.

Also, note that there continue to be revisions to the grip modules due to P320 development, so there are both significant and insignificant variations of grip modules that are all still considered Gen 2. I'm not aware of any significant functional differences between the small variations. The major difference involves the slide lock lever, and you can't mix old/new modules with new/old levers. But if you actually buy a new grip module rather than cheaping out and trying to save $10-15 bucks by buying used, it will come with the new slide lock lever.

OJ covered that quite well.

[gunrascal]

have you tried a Walther P99AS?

[Tamara]

Yeah, I think that's what Tam compared it to. It's the main reason I haven't bought one in anything heavier than .380 yet. But I do think it's likely the best non-micro .380 ever made. And I enjoy the heck out of the .22LR.

The P250C in .380 is a brilliant gun for what it is, and may be the best answer to "What's a good HD pistol for non-hobbyists?" ever. It's a shame it wasn't marketed heavily that way, because I think it crushes the Shield EZ for the purpose.

[OlongJohnson]

I only got mine because someone put it on GB without doing diligence and set the BIN too low. I jumped on it immediately. Every one I've seen go as an auction went much higher than I want to pay.

The caliber X-change kit program just doesn't make sense on P250/320. The kits cost as much as just getting a whole 'nother used (occasionally new) pistol. Unless you live in a jurisdiction where having another serialized item is a serious PITA, just get another gun and don't have to deal with switching back and forth.

A piece of good news is they didn't make any .380s until after the Gen2 conversion, so none of them are affected with the early issues. Although you may get an early Gen2 grip module and have to change the slide catch when you change to a newer grip module.

[Tamara]

I have some P250C’s. I’d love to get a .380 caliber change kit, but they are no longer (or perhaps never were) available. :(

I like the .380 enough that I'm in constant danger of trimming my Boresight Solutions dust cover to fit the shorter slide. :o

[TheNewbie]

The P250C in .380 is a brilliant gun for what it is, and may be the best answer to "What's a good HD pistol for non-hobbyists?" ever. It's a shame it wasn't marketed heavily that way, because I think it crushes the Shield EZ for the purpose.


Yes I think you very well may be right.

I imagine I was one of the first officers to carry a P250 on duty. Carried one early 2008.


Too bad I was not taught, nor mature enough at the time even if I was, to appreciate DAO and how to run one. Had I been, with the Gen 2s were selling for crazy low prices I would have picked up a few.

Hopefully someone comes out with DAO polymer gun with an exposed hammer.

[Tamara]

Hopefully someone comes out with DAO polymer gun with an exposed hammer.

Springfield has the basic architecture available in the XDe. They're too busy chasing a crowded market with it, though.

[McD]

I'm just regurgitating info, as I've only shot one once and have limited recall of it, but the P250 seems to come up as a "revolver like" choice fairly often.

Agree. I have owned one. Perfect description.

[TheNewbie]

Springfield has the basic architecture available in the XDe. They're too busy chasing a crowded market with it, though.


I actually liked my XDS mod 2 except for the ambi mag release. If they offered a version without it, or a replacement part, I would still have it.


My only other concern was that the mags felt cheap. Maybe they are great quality but they didn’t feel that way.


Do you ever carry your XDE?

[revchuck38]

Hopefully someone comes out with DAO polymer gun with an exposed hammer.

Like my PX4 D? :)

[revchuck38]

have you tried a Walther P99AS?

I've got the compact version. Its DA is like that on my Colt Official Police, stacks toward the end of the stroke. The gun is stupid accurate.

Walther did make a DAO version of the P99, but it's out of production and is almost at the collectible stage. I've never held one.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Yes I think you very well may be right.

I imagine I was one of the first officers to carry a P250 on duty. Carried one early 2008.


Too bad I was not taught, nor mature enough at the time even if I was, to appreciate DAO and how to run one. Had I been, with the Gen 2s were selling for crazy low prices I would have picked up a few.

Hopefully someone comes out with DAO polymer gun with an exposed hammer.

I currently carry one on duty. Settled on the P250c shortly before Sig discontinued them. Figures.

[TheNewbie]

I currently carry one on duty. Settled on the P250c shortly before Sig discontinued them. Figures.

I wish I had bought about 4-6 of them over a few years when they were cheap and in production. Stupid on my part.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I wish I had bought about 4-6 of them over a few years when they were cheap and in production. Stupid on my part.

I got 2 - one for carry/duty and one for training. I'm hoping (against hope) for a re-introduction once 320 demand levels off. It oughtn't involve a whole lot of tooling up.

[TheNewbie]

I got 2 - one for carry/duty and one for training. I'm hoping (against hope) for a re-introduction once 320 demand levels off. It oughtn't involve a whole lot of tooling up.

What kind of round counts do you have through yours?

[Chuck Whitlock]

Off the top of my head...less than 1000, more than 500. No classes.

[Alpha Sierra]

What's the big deal about how the firing pin works? It's not part of the shooter/handgun interface. So why is it that important?

Help me understand.
Still trying to understand why the OP is hung up on the pistol being striker fired.