best electronic hearing protection is???

[part-time shooter]

not a $45 set from the local sporting good store...

The not so cheap but not good ones don't seal well around my glasses and the electronics were what I paid for I guess. The first bang was way more than I expected from the leak around my glasses, that was a bit brutal in an indoor range.

What does a good set cost and where would I find them?

Thanks.

[MTechnik]

I love my MSA Sordins (the stereo model) with gel earcups. I plug my phone in and get music over it too sometimes.

I was doing some distance shooting, with some tunes on, and I was able to hear the chain for the club gate being pulled, which is a good 75 yards away, over a hill.

[TAP]

Big fan of MSA Sordins with gel seals too. I do double up with plugs when indoors.

[orionz06]

I have two pair of the Howard Leight Impact Sports and for their price, they are an excellent value. I recently got a pair of MSA/Sordin Supreme Pro-X's with the gel cups and they are worth every penny compared to the Impacts. The Sordins were so comfortable I will forget I am wearing them at times.

[ToddG]

Big fan of MSA Sordins with gel seals too. I do double up with plugs when indoors.

Same here on all counts. The Sordins are great. I had one pair crap out on me (one of the ears died) and it took a while to get it sorted out with the retailer, but my other set has been perfect.

[John Ralston]

From the research I have done, Sordins with the Gel Ear Cushions is the way to go (and I will be ordering a pair soon).

SRS Tactical has the best pricing I have found.

[ToddG]

SRS Tactical has the best pricing I have found.

That's where I got my second pair. They were great to deal with.

[part-time shooter]

excellent,

the gel pads make sense, the foam sucks.

Thank you gentlemen.

[VolGrad]

I have been wearing the $50 Impact model someone mentioned for over a year now and have been quite happy. The sound is decent, the battery life is long, and rain hasn't seemed to bother them. The ONLY issue I have is comfort after wearing them for extended periods. They tend to push in on the earpiece of my eye protection by the end of a long day on the range. I can live with that given the price and durability they've exemplified thus far.

However, I'm not afraid to pay for quality gear if it really is that much better. I have just always held off on expensive hearing protection because of posts like Todd posted above ... about one of his ears crapping out. I just hate to sink $250 in a set of ears that might only last 1-2 years when the $50 ones seem to get the job done.

I have no interest in plugging in a phone, music, etc. to the ears. I just want my hearing protected. I want to hear the instructor and other sounds around me while on the range. (I sure don't want to get run over by a galloping runaway horse.) I want durability. I also want comfort.

It appears MSA Sordins win the recommendation in this thread. I see they have different models with a wide price swing, from Supreme Basic to different Supreme Pro models. Is there a clear winner among the different models?

Convince me I need to spend the $. I'm open. It would be easy if the $50 set wasn't getting the job done but since it is I need more reasons to fork over cash.

[KeeFus]

I have two pair of the Howard Leight Impact Sports and for their price, they are an excellent value.

+1

[MTechnik]

I have both the Howard Leights and the MSA Sordin Supreme Pro X with gel seals. The reason is comfort. They are that much better. Secondary/tertiary reasons are sound quality and water resistance.

the 600 hours from a pair of AAA's is pretty awesome too.

[orionz06]

One issue I had with the Impacts was the muff size. They are large rectangles and to be honest, they dont fit many heads. I found the seal to be very light below my ear. It would at times break open. The Sordins have not done that.

[turbolag23]

the sordins look real nice. i feel low tech, i've been using Howard Leight Thunder 29dB with SureFire EarPro.

[DonovanM]

One problem I have with my HL Impact Sports is that the audio cuts out during gunshots, making carrying on a conversation with someone while someone else is shooting a pain.

Oh well, they were worth the money.

[mnealtx]

Domo - that's because the HL's cut instead of compress high-decibel sound.

The Caldwell muffs compress instead of cut, so you may want to give those a try, instead.

[peterb]

If you have trouble with glasses breaking the muff seal, you can try fillers like these:
http://www.davidclark.com/Store/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=62

I made my own from weatherstripping foam. They look a bit goofy but do make a difference.

[DocGKR]

Sordin...accept no substitute.

[Jay Cunningham]

MSA/Sordins for me.

[LOKNLOD]

My experience with electronic ear pro is limited to the HL impact sports that I'm currently using, and I think are great for the money.

But you guys are saying that the Sordins will continue to pass though normal sounds while blocking the loud sounds without the cutting in and out? That sounds* awesome.

*no pun intended

[Badfish25]

How is the noise reduction with out plugs, I am interested in the MSA Sordin Supreme Basic, but kinda disappointed that they only have a NRR rating of 18dB.

I really don't like to wear ear plug, and don't want to drop 200.00$ for some muffs that wont save my ears, so my question is would this work for indoor use with hand guns?

[JV_]

I found that I needed to double plug, even with my high NRR Pro Ears, when at indoor ranges.

At outdoor ranges, the Sordins do just fine. I appreciate the smaller footprint and better on/off button vs. the pro ears.

[orionz06]

How is the noise reduction with out plugs, I am interested in the MSA Sordin Supreme Basic, but kinda disappointed that they only have a NRR rating of 18dB.

Fit is more important. My Impact Sports do not seal as well on my ear because they are almost rectangles. A bad fitting pair with 22dB NRR is worse than a good sealing 18 dB NRR set of muffs.

[JV_]

At outdoor ranges, the Sordins do just fine.

I forgot to mention, I use the gel ear cups.

[MTechnik]

I forgot to mention, I use the gel ear cups.

Those gel ear cups are INCREDIBLE.

[mnealtx]

I finally got off TDC and ordered two pair of the Caldwell Platinum G3 (http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/caldwell/catalog.asp?product=platinum-series-g3-hearing-protection) muffs for the girlfriend and I. Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Platinum-G3-Electronic-Stereo/dp/B002JWW5GO/) has them for $43.48, six pairs left in stock.

21dB passive reduction, stereo, amplification of normal sound and compression (not cutoff) of high dB sound. I'll let y'all know how they work out - will be about a month or so, though.

[SLG]

I guess I'll buck the trend here. I use first generation Peltor Comtacs. The second gens suck. I've have one pair that I have used since 2004, and has been all over the world, in every climatic condition, and has never failed me. I do have a second set, but they are for convenience, cause as far as I can tell, the first gens just won't quit. I know 100 other guys (literally) who will tell you the same thing.

The Sordins may have improved, with all the good press they're getting on this thread, but as of a couple of years ago, the guys I know who were issued them, all switched to comtacs.

[Rverdi]

I guess I'll buck the trend here. I use first generation Peltor Comtacs

+1

[SmokeJumper]

I've been watching/waiting on some MSA Sordins. I'm going to check out the Peltor Comtacs. Electronic ear pro is pricey. Good info here

[Thrill]

I finally got off TDC and ordered two pair of the Caldwell Platinum G3 (http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/caldwell/catalog.asp?product=platinum-series-g3-hearing-protection) muffs for the girlfriend and I. Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Platinum-G3-Electronic-Stereo/dp/B002JWW5GO/) has them for $43.48, six pairs left in stock.

21dB passive reduction, stereo, amplification of normal sound and compression (not cutoff) of high dB sound. I'll let y'all know how they work out - will be about a month or so, though.

I just couldn't afford 2 pair of Sordins right now (me & wife - both n00bs) so I also got these Caldwells - I'll be trying them Friday. I'll let yinz know.

[mnealtx]

I just couldn't afford 2 pair of Sordins right now (me & wife - both n00bs) so I also got these Caldwells - I'll be trying them Friday. I'll let yinz know.

Good deal - looking forward to what you think of them.

[John Ralston]

I guess I'll buck the trend here. I use first generation Peltor Comtacs. The second gens suck. I've have one pair that I have used since 2004, and has been all over the world, in every climatic condition, and has never failed me. I do have a second set, but they are for convenience, cause as far as I can tell, the first gens just won't quit. I know 100 other guys (literally) who will tell you the same thing.

The Sordins may have improved, with all the good press they're getting on this thread, but as of a couple of years ago, the guys I know who were issued them, all switched to comtacs.

Well...I got the same exact response from that Falla guy over the weekend. Where can one get a set of the 1st gen Peltors? I have not been able to find them yet.

[SmokeJumper]

I just couldn't afford 2 pair of Sordins right now (me & wife - both n00bs) so I also got these Caldwells - I'll be trying them Friday. I'll let yinz know.

They are expensive even on the GSA pricing they are still high. Let us know how the Caldwell unit works out after a bit of use.

[SLG]

Well...I got the same exact response from that Falla guy over the weekend. Where can one get a set of the 1st gen Peltors? I have not been able to find them yet.


As far as I know, Peltor stopped marketing them years ago (when the gen II's came out), but still makes them if you ask for them. I haven't dealt with them in over 5 years, since once you have a set, you really don't need another, but I assume (hope) that if you call them, they'll be able to square you away.

[Thrill]

I just couldn't afford 2 pair of Sordins right now (me & wife - both n00bs) so I also got these Caldwells - I'll be trying them Friday. I'll let yinz know.

Took the Caldwell G3's out today, Wife and I both put about 150 rounds through our G17's, side by side, outdoor range, about 45 degrees, light wind, no other shooters. Understanding my experience is very limited,... but they were very comfortable,... in fact, we forgot to take them off when we were cleaning up after shooting! They compressed the shot sound, and amplified the "quiet" sounds in between, even on the lowest setting. They fold up small, but seem kinda "cheaply" made (in China to be sure). They each take 6 AAA batteries, 3 in each ear muff, separate on-off/volume controls for each side - no cross connecting wires from side to side.

For $50 bucks for a couple n00bs - seems like a good deal to me. About 10 times better that the cheesy passive muffs we had first. We'll have to see how they hold up in the long run, especially when we get to shooting in an IDPA or another shooting-class environment.

Just for curiosity,... you guys with the $200+ muffs,... how long do they last for that price (realizing time-of-ownership vs actual time-of-usage makes a big difference.)

Thanks! Good Luck!

[Rverdi]

I'm guessing I have my Comtacs close to 10 years.

[Thrill]

I'm guessing I have my Comtacs close to 10 years.

Wow! Which ones / what model?

[Rverdi]

1st gen peltor Comtacs

[WobblyPossum]

1st gen peltor Comtacs

Are you guys referring to these:
Comtac (http://peltorcomms.3m.com/Americas/Page.asp?PageNumber=990)

[SLG]

Are you guys referring to these:
Comtac (http://peltorcomms.3m.com/Americas/Page.asp?PageNumber=990)

No, that's the second gen.

These are the ones:

http://www.peltor.com/peltor.com/comm_detail.cfm?prod_family=Comtac&ind_prod_num=MT15H68FB-08%20SV001

[WobblyPossum]

No, that's the second gen.

These are the ones:

http://www.peltor.com/peltor.com/comm_detail.cfm?prod_family=Comtac&ind_prod_num=MT15H68FB-08%20SV001

Thanks.

[John Ralston]

No, that's the second gen.

These are the ones:

http://www.peltor.com/peltor.com/comm_detail.cfm?prod_family=Comtac&ind_prod_num=MT15H68FB-08%20SV001

Cool - so just a model name change...

Appreciate the info SLG

[SLG]

John, you need to clear your pm box out.

[GJM]

I got the MSA Sordin muffs, given how highly recommended they were, and was distinctly unimpressed. Gave them to my wife and bought these:

http://www.peltor.com/peltor.com/comm_detail.cfm?prod_family=Comtac&ind_prod_num=MT15H68FB-08%20SV001

I have been using them a few years with complete satisfaction. And as a pilot I am fussy about headsets. At a Pat Rogers class last weekend, half the class had the Peltor muffs.

[Odin Bravo One]

I am still very happy with the 3 or 4 flange rubber ear plugs. Certainly not high tech, or high speed, or what the cool kids wear, but they are very effective at reducing harmful sound levels, are comfortable to wear for long periods, and if I lose one, I am out $1.29 to get a new pair.

[orionz06]

I got the MSA Sordin muffs, given how highly recommended they were, and was distinctly unimpressed. Gave them to my wife and bought these:


What did you not like?

[GJM]

It has been almost two years since I got the Sordin muffs, and my recollection of each detail may be imperfect. That said, it was hard to get the Sordin muffs, they were highly recommended, and I was very excited. First impression, taking them out of the box, was this is what everyone is excited about? Ear cups didn't fit me great, switchology just OK, and they didn't seem like a product that would hold up.

Shortly after getting the Sordin muffs, I was shooting a 6920, and my face, at the rear of my jaw just under the ear, started getting pinched, and then broke skin. I thought I had a rough spot somewhere on the edge of the butt of the Magpul stock, and couldn't find it. Then I looked at the part of the stock that goes onto the tube and thought maybe that was rough, rounded it, and still had the problem. I am not recoil sensitive and shoot Brenneke slugs and my 45-70 with Garrett ammo without discomfort, but pinching/cutting my face was not conducive to good shooting! Finally, I figured out that the way the Sordin muffs fit on me, I was catching skin between the stock of the AR and the hard plastic below the ear seal on the Sordin muffs.

I ordered the Peltor muffs, and taking them out of the box, they just looked beefier and more durable. I liked the switcholgy, the battery compartments and AA batteries, the ear cups and fit on me. No problem with pinching my face on stocks, and thru coming up on two seasons of use thru a number of courses and plenty of informal shooting, they have worked great.

[John Ralston]

Well...the 1st Gen Peltors are no longer made (confirmed by a call to Peltor Tech. Service Line).

I guess it's Fleabay or Sordins...

[Slavex]

I've got 1st and 2nd Gen Comtacs, Sporttac, Tactical 6 and 7, HL, Dillon and some other electronic ears in the gun room. MSA Sordins in my range bag. Will never go back to Peltor again. The Gel cups are the single best upgrade you can add to the Sordins (or your Peltors if you want to make them better too, SRS Tactical has cups for both manufacturers). I was told they ask increase the DB rating on the muffs.
My only complaint about the Sordins was the head band. Apparently I have a big head and with a hat on, couldn't wear them properly. 3 minutes with a razor blade and I'd added about 3/8 of an inch more to their adjustable range and they fit perfect. Apparently this is the biggest complaint they get, and normally they tell people to get the behind the head ones if they can't get the over the top ones to fit.

[45R]

I love my Sordins :)

[GearScout]

I've got the Gen1 ComTac myself. I'm pretty happy with them. But, they are getting a bit worn.

The new Peltors are coming out in a couple months. I haven't seen them, but I think they are going to be lower profile than the current Peltors with the same performance.

[vecdran]

Recently picked up some MSA Sordin Pro-Xs with the gel cups. Was a big financial investment for me, but I haven't regretted the purchase. Wore them through a pretty soggy Get SOM/Speed kills class with Todd, they pretty much permanently proved their worth there to me.

[turbolag23]

Recently picked up some MSA Sordin Pro-Xs with the gel cups. Was a big financial investment for me, but I haven't regretted the purchase. Wore them through a pretty soggy Get SOM/Speed kills class with Todd, they pretty much permanently proved their worth there to me.

i'll probably be making the same purchase after wearing some cheap hearing protection at a class last weekend. at least i can hear out of my right ear again

[GearScout]

The new Peltors are out as of today. (http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2011/05/02/3mpeltor-comtac-iv-released-it-doesnt-look-at-all-like-you-thought-itd-look/) Very, very different than what I was expecting. Also, very expensive. I don't think we'll be seeing these on the range. They seem to have very limited application in the shooting sports market.

[ToddG]

External wiring on the head... good thing we're at war in the desert and not the forest.

[willowofwisp]

I just ordered a set of MSA-Sordin Supreme Pro X with the gel inserts, as a late birthday present to myself (or at least thats the excuse to the gf), I can't wait to give them a try, I plan on running them in my upcoming Pat Rogers class.

[JodyH]

My 10 year old Dillon HP1 (Radians) have been great.
No problems with all day comfort and the electronics work as advertised.

[dickmadison]

anyone have a line of 1st gen peltor comtacs? I'm looking to buy a pair. Are the second gen's really that bad?

[John Ralston]

1st gens are not available - unless you buy used or can find a pair on fleabay.

From what I have been told, the 2nd gens are complete crap.

[SLG]

I have not seen good results with the 2nd gens (in large quantities, though that was a few years ago), but because of the difficulty in getting first gens, I'm going to bench my first gens for a while and only use my second gens to see how they do. One example is not a test, but we'll see what happens.

[dickmadison]

what a bummer. After some research, it looks like other people (at other forums) have had the same results with the second gens. I've also read that the MSA's have had some problems with electronics failing (not just on this forum). I'm tempted to a pair of Peltor Tactical Pros. They are a little bigger but they have a higher NRR and lower price.

My Howard Leights are ok for the price but my big problem is when I take tactical classes, I need a pair I can wear for long durations and the HL's are not that comfy for long periods. I'm hoping the Peltor Tactical Pros work and you can hopefully get the gel cups for them too. I will have to call peltor tomorrow and see if they fit in the Tac pros. Ugh...decisions decisions.

[John Ralston]

Let us know what you find out.

[SmokeJumper]

what a bummer. After some research, it looks like other people (at other forums) have had the same results with the second gens. I've also read that the MSA's have had some problems with electronics failing (not just on this forum). I'm tempted to a pair of Peltor Tactical Pros. They are a little bigger but they have a higher NRR and lower price.

My Howard Leights are ok for the price but my big problem is when I take tactical classes, I need a pair I can wear for long durations and the HL's are not that comfy for long periods. I'm hoping the Peltor Tactical Pros work and you can hopefully get the gel cups for them too. I will have to call peltor tomorrow and see if they fit in the Tac pros. Ugh...decisions decisions.

Let us know on those Peltors and where ya get 'em, those look to be a less expensive option.

[pointfiveoh]

Which Sordins are you guys using? I assume they are of the supreme range family, but there appears to be a fair amount of variance within that group.

[orionz06]

http://srstactical.com/communications/electronic-ambient-listening-headsets/msa-sordin-supreme-pro*x/75302*x.html

[pointfiveoh]

Thanks gents.

[John Ralston]

I wish there was some definitive info one way or the other between the Sordins and the Tac Pro II's. Both are in $300 range (+ or -) and both are not highly regarded by many whose opinions I trust. The Sordins have a 5 yr warranty though - the Peltors are 1 year.

[SmokeJumper]

Ok, so I think I'm going to pull the plug on set of the Sordin Supreme Pro x's based on all the input/opinions here and another forum as well. But I'm curious about one aspect, the NRR rating on the Sordins is 22 and my thirty dollar Peltors is a NRR of 30. Am I missing something with the lower NRR rating? Thanks and sorry if this was covered already.

[TAP]

Yes. The sordins will give less protection then your peltors. I have to double up with plugs if I shoot indoors with sordins. Outdoors aren't a problem unless you are very sound sensitive.

[SmokeJumper]

Yes. The sordins will give less protection then your peltors. I have to double up with plugs if I shoot indoors with sordins. Outdoors aren't a problem unless you are very sound sensitive.

Hmm, glad I researched this a bit more by asking this question,Thanks. I normally shoot on an outdoor range for work and practice, but once in a while I go to the local indoor range. With this above information in mind, do you still recommend the Sordins?

[mnealtx]

Lower profile cups are almost always going to have lower NR ratings than 'bubble' cups - there's more room to put in attenuation material.

Since electronic muffs tend to be slim-line, you see 22-23dB NR ratings.

[SmokeJumper]

Lower profile cups are almost always going to have lower NR ratings than 'bubble' cups - there's more room to put in attenuation material.

Since electronic muffs tend to be slim-line, you see 22-23dB NR ratings.

This makes sense based on size/construction, thanks, I was wondering about it.

[mnealtx]

No problem, Smoke - of course, the rating is exclusive of any benefit from the noise cancellation for the electronic muffs.

[peterb]

Electronic headsets generally offer little or no noise-cancelling for impulsive noise such as gunshots. Noise cancelling technology is best suited for steady-state noise, such as aircraft engine noise.

Most(all?) electronic headsets designed for shooting offer NO benefit in hearing protection compared to passive earmuffs. The benefit is in being able to hear "normally" when you are not shooting. The circuitry doesn't "filter out" gunshot noise -- it essentially turns off, turning the muffs into passive muffs for the duration of the high-level sound impulse.

Electronic muffs do not offer better hearing protection than good passive muffs. They do have benefits, but basic noise reduction isn't one of them.

[SmokeJumper]

Electronic headsets generally offer little or no noise-cancelling for impulsive noise such as gunshots. Noise cancelling technology is best suited for steady-state noise, such as aircraft engine noise.

Most(all?) electronic headsets designed for shooting offer NO benefit in hearing protection compared to passive earmuffs. The benefit is in being able to hear "normally" when you are not shooting. The circuitry doesn't "filter out" gunshot noise -- it essentially turns off, turning the muffs into passive muffs for the duration of the high-level sound impulse.

Electronic muffs do not offer better hearing protection than good passive muffs. They do have benefits, but basic noise reduction isn't one of them.

That is a great explanation-Thanks for clarifying the difference in function/mechanics of the muff.

[mnealtx]

Electronic headsets generally offer little or no noise-cancelling for impulsive noise such as gunshots. Noise cancelling technology is best suited for steady-state noise, such as aircraft engine noise.

Most(all?) electronic headsets designed for shooting offer NO benefit in hearing protection compared to passive earmuffs. The benefit is in being able to hear "normally" when you are not shooting. The circuitry doesn't "filter out" gunshot noise -- it essentially turns off, turning the muffs into passive muffs for the duration of the high-level sound impulse.

Electronic muffs do not offer better hearing protection than good passive muffs. They do have benefits, but basic noise reduction isn't one of them.

Agreed, regarding relative passive hearing protection, but that is because they tend to be slimmer shells that do not hold as much attenuating material.

Some muffs do indeed compress the high decibel sound vs cutting off the mic, which makes them a better choice for busy firing lines as you can still hear range commands.

[vecdran]

Electronic headsets generally offer little or no noise-cancelling for impulsive noise such as gunshots. Noise cancelling technology is best suited for steady-state noise, such as aircraft engine noise.

Most(all?) electronic headsets designed for shooting offer NO benefit in hearing protection compared to passive earmuffs. The benefit is in being able to hear "normally" when you are not shooting. The circuitry doesn't "filter out" gunshot noise -- it essentially turns off, turning the muffs into passive muffs for the duration of the high-level sound impulse.

Electronic muffs do not offer better hearing protection than good passive muffs. They do have benefits, but basic noise reduction isn't one of them.

I would suggest experiencing more of the variety of electronic hearing protection out there before laying down "definitive" posts such as this.


I do, yes. I use the Surefire ep3 plugs under the Sordins and it works well and is very comfortable for me.

This. I work at an indoor gun range and this is the best combination I found for indoor shooting, at least with pistols. If you're shooting something obscenely loud, like a muzzle braked AR, you will have to upgrade to foam ear plugs and ear muffs, but you'd pretty much have to do that regardless.

[peterb]

I would suggest experiencing more of the variety of electronic hearing protection out there before laying down "definitive" posts such as this.

I'm always happy to learn. I've been out of the field for a couple of years. If you know of electronic muffs that are more effective against impulsive noise than a good passive muff, please post the information.

[vecdran]

The problem with your post worded like that is there is no "one" level of NRR for ear protection. A thicker body on ear protection will allow more sound deadening material, regardless of whether it is electronic or not. There are passive sets with horribly low NRR , and electronic sets with silly high NRR. The reason why most electronic sets tend to be rated lower, as noted previously, is because most of them are the "slim profile" setup to aid in rifle cheek welds, or fit under helmets.

As for the function of the electronics, cheaper sets will just turn off during impulse noise, higher end sets will attenuate out the sound and continue to transmit the lower volume sounds. It's not absolutely perfect, but we're dealing with gun shots here...

[ToddG]

I read peterb's comments more as a sideways comment about companies that claim their electronic hearing protection will magically "counteract" gunshot noise even though they have lower NPR than bigger non-electric muffs.

[vecdran]

Ah, well the mysteries of product marketing are something else entirely. ;)