Lights on Pump Shotguns (2019)

[powell556]

In 2019 what is the current state of lights on pump shotguns? In reviewing old threads, here is what I found:

Option 1: Get a new era Surefire Dedicated Foreend DSF series. They run 600 lumens so not too bright, but probably bright enough. Very heavy and makes the shotgun feel unbalanced. The switchology is not great. But probably most durable because it's a one piece fit with no exposed wires. I have one of these and I don't like the balance of it. However, since the shotgun is primarily an indoors self-defense tool, it probably doesn't matter too much if it balances poorly.

Option 2: Get an old era Surefire Dedicated Foreend and replace the assembly with a Malkoff. Not sure exactly which Malkoff assembly works, I haven't tried this, just saw references to it in old PF threads. The switchology and balance of the older SF forends is better than the newer DSF models. This feels bad because now I have to source an old, used forend and cobble a new thing together with parts from Malkoff that will no longer be covered under warranty (as a whole at least). Why did SF have to make their new forends worse than the old ones? Also, I am not sure if the older forends work with the shorter action assembly on 14" barreled Mossbergs.

Option 3: Run a 1000 lumen SF scout light on a Magpul foreend. Seems like an interesting idea. Probably lighter than the DSF dedicated SF foreend and almost double the lumen output. Downside is that unless you run a switch, which adds an external wire as a failure point, then you're going to be limited to constant-on only because you won't be able to manipulate momentary on while running the pump. Another downside is you lose ability to run it with your weak hand in an easy way, except you can probably finagle turning it constant on with your weak hand at a weird angle and then going to run the gun weak side. My questions with this are: how do you set it up so that the light switch is accessible but not in the way so it doesn't mash against your knuckles from recoil?

Option 4: Run a 1000 lumen SF scout light on a mag tube mount. Also seems interesting but I don't think it will work with a 14" short barrel shotgun, which is what I'm most interested in. Similar pros/cons to the scout light mounted on the foreend.

Option 5: No light at all. Tom Givens has in the recent past said he doesn't advocate putting a light on a home defense shotgun. I don't remember his exact reasoning but I think it was that if you're in your own house, there's always some ambient lighting enough to at least see silhouettes. Most trainers advice on putting lights on every longgun because of positive target identification. I think Tom's point is that if you there's no ambiguity in the situation then you don't need that positive target ID, not really sure. He does mention that the light makes the gun unbalanced.

There might be other options that I'm not aware of. All of the 5 options I I posted above kind of suck in one way or another. I'm leaning most to 1000 lumen scout light on a magpul foreend, but unsure exactly where to mount it. If I'm right handed do I mount it on left side or right side? Is there any angular mounts that might shift the angle of the light such that it's closer to the gun and doesn't stick out too far along the side?

[03RN]

I really dislike lights on the side of the forearm. They mash my thumb and seem to hang up more than surefire lights.

The new dsf forends are great ime. I've only used them. I don't have one personally. I do have an older surefire. I keep meaning to get a malkoff head but I keep missing the sales.

Armsunlimited has the best deal on surefires.

No light? No thanks. My house is dark enough I want a light. Not to mention but in the past when living on a farm I've used wmls to great effect on preditors. Sure on a full moon in the snow a black mink is visible in the open but chasing a varmint into a dark swamp is more common and needs a light.

Beyond that the RS regulate mount is the best I've used to mount a hand held. It's rugged and the absolute lowest profile mount.

[txdpd]

I like a Strealight TLR on the outside of the forearm, and using my index finger to run the toggle. I’m sure any other light with that type of toggle would work too.

Not a fan of the new DSF. You only have to lose your grip once and get your index finger slammed by the edge on the back of the light housing to have a bruised up finger. It the back of the housing on the old DSF is flat and pretty forgiving.

[Guerrero]

Streamlight is coming out with a new forend similar to the Surefire one.

[RevolverRob]

I was looking earlier at the Elzetta tape-switch setup, which the way it functions is purely momentary setup, and if it fails you can just turn the tail cap on and you still have a functional light

- https://www.elzetta.com/product/tape-switch-5/

Mounted to a Magpul fore-end with an offset mount is what I would do.

[LJP]

I have struggled with this issue on my own 870P SBS. Having owned one of the older SF forends for a Win 1300, I’m not a fan of the weight or balance. At present, I have an X300U mounted on a short piece of rail on a MagPul forend in the 6 o’clock position. Switching is obviously less than optimal. Truthfully, I wish I could just put my OEM Speedfeed forend back on it. But it is my primary “bump in the night” gun, so a light on the gun is ideal.

Regarding Givens, I’m pretty sure he is on record as saying that he has LED lightbulbs on in the hallway of his home 24/7. Thus, he doesn’t need a light on his gun. If my wife would let me, I’d adopt the same strategy.

I’ll watch this thread with interest for any ideas that I haven’t considered. I may look at the Streamlight option once it’s available, but I’m not sure I expect it to be that much different than the SF offering.


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[Tactical Black Belt]

I don't like a really bright light on a home defense shotgun because it can distroy your night vision if you shine it on a mirror, window glass or even a smooth white wall. Hog hunting is an entirely different matter.

[Erick Gelhaus]

I pulled the SF 618 lights off of my shotguns. They were replaced with Magpul foreends & rails, a mount, & a SF P2X Fury. Brighter, lighter, and less expensive.

When the new Streamlight foreend hits the market I will give it a try.

[That Guy]

My current setup is a Streamlight mount, this one: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/754094/streamlight-tactical-mount-remington-870 On it I have an older Olight T20 mounted with a Vltor Picatinny mount. Yes, the Streamlight product is advertised as for use with Streamlight lights only (which Streamlight lights depends on which web page you are reading - I believe the eBay ad where I bought mine claimed it only works with a TLR-1), but I can confirm it seems to work with any standard Picatinny mount (at least as long as you only have a single cross bar).

Lightweight, hardly a detriment to the shotguns balance. Easy to use. Not very bright by today's Gucci gear standards, but I feel for a shotgun it's enough. Both momentary on and constant on are available, and they are both switched on with the same button which makes it easier for my monkey brain to understand (this is one application where I really appreciate a good clicky button!). Turning the light on accidentally is unlikely, while turning the light on on purpose is easy. The only real downside is switching shoulders - I have to basically rest the forend of the shotgun on top of my fist, poke the lights on switch with my thumb for constant on, then grasp the forend normally, fire, and turning the light off is the same prodedure in reverse. A bit slower than the poke - boom - poke when the shotgun is shouldered normally on my dominant hand side.

[Tensaw]

Timely thread as I just about have all the bits and pieces installed on the shotgun, with the light being the last code to crack. The RS Regulate does indeed look like a winner (was not on my radar previously). That said, I have been sore tempted to mount a piece of pic rail on the factory fore-end via screws and a "bed" of acraglass, then throw an X300 or something on there. This would be fairly low profile *and* the light would travel with the pump - which seems optimal, in theory.

The other thing I have considered (but have not done much research on with respect to available hardware) is to mount a scout light set-up with some sort of extension that would place the body of the light forward of the fore-end and use a very short tape switch. I would love to crack the code on a small bodied light that furnishes adequate lumens.

Despite be an "all the lumens" guy for most WMLs, I do not feel the same compulsion when it comes to the SG which (for *my* purposes) I view as a 50-yard (25 yards really) and in gun.

One last observation/comment, which is probably obvious to all of ya'll, trying to mount a light on a pump gun adds a layer of complication as opposed to doing so on a semi-auto with a fixed forend. (So of course I am doing the pump thing...)

[03RN]

I don't like a really bright light on a home defense shotgun because it can distroy your night vision if you shine it on a mirror, window glass or even a smooth white wall. Hog hunting is an entirely different matter.

If you get some low light training you will learn how to mitigate those concerns.

[Screwball]

I prefer a pistol light on a Magpul forend... attached by a section of rail. Currently, I still have the Insight M3X LED on my bed gun... being it has worked great for years (smoother/rounder than the TLR lights, which I prefer considering it is hanging off the side of the bed at shin level).

Main reason, I have a few different pistol lights (got rid of the Surefire, so mostly all use the same paddle system). I tend to run TLRs on most of my long guns... including my braced TAC-14, and some of my ARs. I can swap them back to a pistol somewhat easily, which I guess I like the flexibility.

But I do have some other lights on long guns. My FDE AR has an Inforce... forget the model, but with the rear facing button. My main 5.56mm AR (piston upper that I’ve had for years) uses a Surefire 6PX Pro on an IWC mount. And a Surefire M600IB Scout on my Tavor. All work, and work well. But none of them really do anything that much better than my TLRs... maybe the IB feature on the Scout light, but I bought it used for a decent price. Have two of their Fury handhelds, and no desire to spend more to swap in IB versions.

I do have an AR lower sitting in PA (because the Echo Trigger is a “machine gun” per NJ law), waiting to finish that build when I move up to ME... but likely going to be a 20” barreled upper. Will likely do a Magpul forend... with likely a pistol light. Same with the PTR 9CT, which I’ll likely just get a rail on the forend that comes with the pistol and be done with it. I just prefer them to the other options out there.

[43Under]

In 2019 what is the current state of lights on pump shotguns? In reviewing old threads, here is what I found:

Option 1: Get a new era Surefire Dedicated Foreend DSF series. They run 600 lumens so not too bright, but probably bright enough. Very heavy and makes the shotgun feel unbalanced. The switchology is not great. But probably most durable because it's a one piece fit with no exposed wires. I have one of these and I don't like the balance of it. However, since the shotgun is primarily an indoors self-defense tool, it probably doesn't matter too much if it balances poorly.

Option 2: Get an old era Surefire Dedicated Foreend and replace the assembly with a Malkoff. Not sure exactly which Malkoff assembly works, I haven't tried this, just saw references to it in old PF threads. The switchology and balance of the older SF forends is better than the newer DSF models. This feels bad because now I have to source an old, used forend and cobble a new thing together with parts from Malkoff that will no longer be covered under warranty (as a whole at least). Why did SF have to make their new forends worse than the old ones? Also, I am not sure if the older forends work with the shorter action assembly on 14" barreled Mossbergs.

Option 3: Run a 1000 lumen SF scout light on a Magpul foreend. Seems like an interesting idea. Probably lighter than the DSF dedicated SF foreend and almost double the lumen output. Downside is that unless you run a switch, which adds an external wire as a failure point, then you're going to be limited to constant-on only because you won't be able to manipulate momentary on while running the pump. Another downside is you lose ability to run it with your weak hand in an easy way, except you can probably finagle turning it constant on with your weak hand at a weird angle and then going to run the gun weak side. My questions with this are: how do you set it up so that the light switch is accessible but not in the way so it doesn't mash against your knuckles from recoil?

Option 4: Run a 1000 lumen SF scout light on a mag tube mount. Also seems interesting but I don't think it will work with a 14" short barrel shotgun, which is what I'm most interested in. Similar pros/cons to the scout light mounted on the foreend.

Option 5: No light at all. Tom Givens has in the recent past said he doesn't advocate putting a light on a home defense shotgun. I don't remember his exact reasoning but I think it was that if you're in your own house, there's always some ambient lighting enough to at least see silhouettes. Most trainers advice on putting lights on every longgun because of positive target identification. I think Tom's point is that if you there's no ambiguity in the situation then you don't need that positive target ID, not really sure. He does mention that the light makes the gun unbalanced.

There might be other options that I'm not aware of. All of the 5 options I I posted above kind of suck in one way or another. I'm leaning most to 1000 lumen scout light on a magpul foreend, but unsure exactly where to mount it. If I'm right handed do I mount it on left side or right side? Is there any angular mounts that might shift the angle of the light such that it's closer to the gun and doesn't stick out too far along the side?

Same boat here.

A bit of history. I currently have an 18.5 in 590A1. For a long time I had the Surefire 623 LF forend on it. Until I put 200 or so rounds through it during a class and thought I broke my left thumb on the plastic guard that surrounds the switch. In a home defense situation, obviously, that would not be a major cause for concern, but in a class, it had to go! For my second shotgun class (Givens) I replaced it with a Hogue model and it was SOOOOOOO much better.


Switch gears. Last summer I ordered a similar 590A1 SBS. It's still in NFA purgatory, but should be out soon. I plan on this being my go-to bump in the night gun. I feel like it needs a light. The Surefire from my 18.5 590A1 will not fit, as you noted. Surefire made a different 623 series for the SBS (and presumably would also be the one for the shockwave), which are out of production and VERY hard to find (last one I saw on eBay went for $400 I think). The newer Surefire dedicated forends apparently come with a spacer so they can be used on full sized or shorter Mossbergs, which is a step in the right direction. I've not yet handled one of these newer models, which also aren't cheap. I do think they're uglier, though, for whatever that's worth.

So I've been looking at perhaps the Magpul forend (which has to be modified to work on the shorter Mossbergs, FYI....GG&G sells modified ones if you don't want to do it yourself, I think for around $55) and then add a light. I too do not like the idea of a big "thing" hanging off the side of the forend. And, to be honest, if you add up the cost of the modified Magpul forend, a short piece of rail, and a decent light, you're getting close to the cost of the Surefire dedicated forend at that point. Close. So I'm torn.

Where I'm leaning now is modified Magpul forend, short rail, and one of the Inforce lights that seem to be pretty low-profile. If I use it in a class and it bothers me, I figure I could always remove it for the class and reinstall it later.

As noted, I took Tom's class and understand his rationale for no light on the shotgun, but I view one scenario where I might need to use the shotgun as being during an extended power outage, such as after severe storms. I can't rely on a bunch of LED lights to hold their power forever in such a scenario. With kids in my house who someday will be older and more prone to doing stupid teenager stuff, I feel like a light on my shotgun will be mandatory.

So I'll follow this thread and contribute to it again as my experience evolves (perhaps I'll get the Magpul and Inforce and hate them both?).

[powell556]

Is anyone aware of an angled light mount that I could put a SF scout on the magpul shotgun foreend such that instead of having the light hang off the side, it tucks the light into a tight triangle of barrel and mag tube? A traditional light mount puts it off on the side so it protrudes. I wonder if it would be possible to have it mounted so it go up and angled inward so it has a minimal overall footprint.

[Paul Blackburn]

Mossberg 590
Streamlight Protac 1L with pressure pad on Magpul forend no mods required
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[Tensaw]

Paul, could we talk you into posting pics with a side view?

[43Under]

Mossberg 590
Streamlight Protac 1L with pressure pad on Magpul forend no mods required
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That's an SBS, yes? When you say no mods required, you mean you didn't have to modify the forend at all for the shorter forend tube? I'd like a sideview as well!

[Paul Blackburn]

Right & Left
https://www.gggaz.com/magpul-forearm-for-mossberg-shockwave.html
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[43Under]

Right & Left
https://www.gggaz.com/magpul-forearm-for-mossberg-shockwave.html
3552135522
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Okay, yeah, that's the modified Magpul forend I mentioned above. Looks good.

[Tactical Black Belt]

The method we have advocated for years is to take low cover in a prearranged choke point such as a stairwell or hall way. The area where you are should be pitch black dark but the other end of the hall or whatever should be somewhat illuminated. That way the home invader can't see you but you have a clear silhouette to aim at. When you play hide and seek with a shotgun the hider always wins.

[Paul Blackburn]

Its very nimble, fast on target, and runs great. Very mild recoil with Federal Flight Control.

[RevolverRob]

Saw this earlier on TheFirearmBlog - The Optimized Weapon Light - https://clouddefensive.com/optimized-weapon-light/

Basically, a rail mounted light, with a tape switch built-in. Seems like it would be ideal for mounting to a Magpul forend.

[43Under]

Saw this earlier on TheFirearmBlog - The Optimized Weapon Light - https://clouddefensive.com/optimized-weapon-light/

Basically, a rail mounted light, with a tape switch built-in. Seems like it would be ideal for mounting to a Magpul forend.

Not sure if it'll fit or not. But for $399.99, I'm not going to be the beta tester.

[DocGKR]

I prefer a tube or slide mount rather than a dedicated fore-end.
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[Guerrero]

I'm still curious about the CDM MOD-C shotgun flashlight mount. It seem pretty compact, even if it would put the flashlight on the "wrong" side for me if I wanted to use the sling QD.

[03RN]

I'm still curious about the CDM MOD-C shotgun flashlight mount. It seem pretty compact, even if it would put the flashlight on the "wrong" side for me if I wanted to use the sling QD.

I've used 2 of the CDM mounts. I like them a lot. Very low pro and well made. I just prefer to be able to remove the light. IDK why really.

[LJP]

I prefer a tube or slide mount rather than a dedicated fore-end.
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DocGKR,

How are you handling activation?Momentary? Click on, click off? I realize that it is light dependent, but what is your solution?

Thanks.


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[LJP]

I've used 2 of the CDM mounts. I like them a lot. Very low pro and well made. I just prefer to be able to remove the light. IDK why really.

Any idea if the CDM mount would fit a +1 from Vang Comp on my SBS? No doubt the light would protrude past the muzzle, but I’m just curious if the mount fits common magazine tube extensions. I have an old SF G2 that I could easily repurpose.


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[Guerrero]

Any idea if the CDM mount would fit a +1 from Vang Comp on my SBS? No doubt the light would protrude past the muzzle, but I’m just curious if the mount fits common magazine tube extensions. I have an old SF G2 that I could easily repurpose.


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I sure hope they do, too, otherwise I'm screwed.

[03RN]

IDK. I used the on 590a1 magazine tubes

[DocGKR]

I like click on-off, although these lights will do momentary if not pushed in all the way.

[txdpd]

I prefer a tube or slide mount rather than a dedicated fore-end.

What mount are you using on the barrel of the 870 without the extension?

[RevolverRob]

Not sure if it'll fit or not. But for $399.99, I'm not going to be the beta tester.

$339.99 from Brownells (https://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/flashlights-accessories/weapon-lights/optimized-weapon-light-prod120159.aspx), but yea, still not a cheap option, by any means.

Though depending on how you set it up (i.e. with a tape switch and tube mount, etc), you can end up above two bills pretty fast for a Streamlight or Surefire setup.

It looks like a slick setup for the intended purpose (AR), but I can envision a few scenarios where it works with a shotgun. Especially on a 1301T with the Aridus-Zhukov handguard on it. Also, basically flipped upside down (flashlight down) on a Magpul forend might work, effectively putting the light under the gun, kind of like a Surefire forend, but without quite as much weight and bulk. I guess for me, I've always found it annoying that tube/side mounted WMLs shadow the barrel of the gun, unless the light head is virtually even with the muzzle or above or below the barrel.

I wonder if folks with AMIS experience using a long gun can chime in on how shadowing of the gun does/does not affect identification.

[DocGKR]

Some cheap clamp with a pic rail on the side...

[TCinVA]

It looks like a slick setup for the intended purpose (AR), but I can envision a few scenarios where it works with a shotgun. Especially on a 1301T with the Aridus-Zhukov handguard on it. Also, basically flipped upside down (flashlight down) on a Magpul forend might work, effectively putting the light under the gun, kind of like a Surefire forend, but without quite as much weight and bulk. I guess for me, I've always found it annoying that tube/side mounted WMLs shadow the barrel of the gun, unless the light head is virtually even with the muzzle or above or below the barrel.


I don't find that to be too much of a problem. The lights are bright enough these days that you don't need to have the light aimed directly at stuff. I tend to use the light indirectly more than anything else...bouncing it off the ceiling or a floor or a wall is usually sufficient to light most of a typical room up well enough to see what's going on.

If you are the kind of guy who hunts very bad men in very inconvenient places all the time the barrel shadow can certainly be annoying.

For Average Joe/Average Jane it's not much of an issue, IMO.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Saw this earlier on TheFirearmBlog - The Optimized Weapon Light - https://clouddefensive.com/optimized-weapon-light/

Basically, a rail mounted light, with a tape switch built-in. Seems like it would be ideal for mounting to a Magpul forend.


Not sure if it'll fit or not. But for $399.99, I'm not going to be the beta tester.


$339.99 from Brownells (https://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/flashlights-accessories/weapon-lights/optimized-weapon-light-prod120159.aspx), but yea, still not a cheap option, by any means.

Though depending on how you set it up (i.e. with a tape switch and tube mount, etc), you can end up above two bills pretty fast for a Streamlight or Surefire setup.

It looks like a slick setup for the intended purpose (AR), but I can envision a few scenarios where it works with a shotgun. Especially on a 1301T with the Aridus-Zhukov handguard on it. Also, basically flipped upside down (flashlight down) on a Magpul forend might work, effectively putting the light under the gun, kind of like a Surefire forend, but without quite as much weight and bulk. I guess for me, I've always found it annoying that tube/side mounted WMLs shadow the barrel of the gun, unless the light head is virtually even with the muzzle or above or below the barrel.

I wonder if folks with AMIS experience using a long gun can chime in on how shadowing of the gun does/does not affect identification.

Expensive, but it looks like a lot of thought went into the design, and it ships with the two batteries and charger.
Sure looks like a valiant attempt at "One-light-to-rule-them-all".

I suppose that, in a pinch, one could JBWeld a section of pic rail anywhere that would place the light where s/he wanted it.

[Nephrology]

I have one 870 with the new Surefire DSF and another 870 with a Nordic Components railed barrel clamp + a Streamlight TLR-1.

Both have pluses and minuses; overall it seems like a wash to me. I do not shoot these guns nearly often enough, however, so I can't say this is an expert opinion.

[Tensaw]

Previously mentioned in passing in this thread, CDM (cdmgear.com/shotgunlightmounts.html) offers some pretty interesting options. (You have to drill past first level to see all the offerings in each category.)

[Gray01]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/03/11/streamlights-new-tl-racker-integrated-shotgun-weapon-light/

[spinmove_]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/03/11/streamlights-new-tl-racker-integrated-shotgun-weapon-light/

That looks interesting enough at a decent enough price point to try out.


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[Gray01]

That looks interesting enough at a decent enough price point to try out.




Botach is listing it for $120 https://www.botach.com/streamlight-tl-racker-shotgun-forend/ and Amazon for $144 https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Streamlight+TL-RACKER&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20

Now if Streamlight just makes a model for the Beretta 1301...

[ssb]

Are there any good options for somebody who does not use a +2 extension? Looking to move away from the Surefire forend for balance/weight reasons. For now I've actually got no light on the gun and am using the OEM Police handguard. I use a Wilson +1 on my 870. In the past I tried a Magpul forend with a WML attached and did not care for it.

[Gray01]

Are there any good options for somebody who does not use a +2 extension? Looking to move away from the Surefire forend for balance/weight reasons.


Did you see the above new Streamlight product? “The TL-RACKER is designed to easily replace the original factory forend...”

[03RN]

Are there any good options for somebody who does not use a +2 extension? Looking to move away from the Surefire forend for balance/weight reasons. For now I've actually got no light on the gun and am using the OEM Police handguard. I use a Wilson +1 on my 870. In the past I tried a Magpul forend with a WML attached and did not care for it.

Streamlights rail is actually a really good option.
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