View Full Version : Speed vs. Accuracy
Bill and Ken delve into the debate over the importance of speed vs. accuracy in competition shooting and the real world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAOBFVjLbvM
Duelist
02-22-2019, 11:59 AM
Did not watch yet, but ...
Por que no los dos?
cheby
02-22-2019, 01:23 PM
Por que no los dos?
Because they can't. Neither their target audience...
ASH556
02-22-2019, 01:36 PM
Has Bill got some mental stuff going on? I don't know him from Adam, but watching his eye movement on camera and listening to him talk it almost seems post-stroke?
Alpha Sierra
02-22-2019, 01:51 PM
Has Bill got some mental stuff going on? I don't know him from Adam, but watching his eye movement on camera and listening to him talk it almost seems post-stroke?
It's just an eye tic: https://www.webmd.com/brain/tic-disorders-and_twitches#1
Alpha Sierra
02-22-2019, 01:53 PM
Speed versus accuracy is not a binary construct. It's a continuum and where one is within it depends on what one is shooting at and why.
I don't know if that's what they said but that's my take on it.
ASH556
02-22-2019, 02:38 PM
Speed versus accuracy is not a binary construct. It's a continuum and where one is within it depends on what one is shooting at and why.
I don't know if that's what they said but that's my take on it.
That's not really what they said, but I agree more with you than them. They were basically taking from the "you young kids and your go fast can't hit stuff in the real world."
They did say that what they thought was top performance back in their day would be near the bottom nowadays.
It blows most people's minds, though, that you can be fast and accurate. I attended a local 3gun match once where the match director came over after my run on stage 1 (carbine) and said, "alright, who's shooting a full auto?" Ridiculous. On a later stage (that this same dude happened to be the RSO for) consisting of a steel array ranging from 50 - 150 yds, 10 targets, 2 per, standing, the score was kept by taking the overall time and counting misses on steel as 1 sec adders. As I stepped up to the line for my turn he snarkily says, "Alright y'all, count fast." They didn't have to count at all because I went 20/20 in 18 sec and won the match (2nd place was 30 seconds behind me.) The point of all this isn't to say that I'm that fast. I shot some regional 3gn Nation style matches and got my ass smoked by some real shooters. It's that in the shooting world there's such a massive spectrum of what people think "fast" is.
spinmove_
02-22-2019, 03:04 PM
That's not really what they said, but I agree more with you than them. They were basically taking from the "you young kids and your go fast can't hit stuff in the real world."
They did say that what they thought was top performance back in their day would be near the bottom nowadays.
It blows most people's minds, though, that you can be fast and accurate. I attended a local 3gun match once where the match director came over after my run on stage 1 (carbine) and said, "alright, who's shooting a full auto?" Ridiculous. On a later stage (that this same dude happened to be the RSO for) consisting of a steel array ranging from 50 - 150 yds, 10 targets, 2 per, standing, the score was kept by taking the overall time and counting misses on steel as 1 sec adders. As I stepped up to the line for my turn he snarkily says, "Alright y'all, count fast." They didn't have to count at all because I went 20/20 in 18 sec and won the match (2nd place was 30 seconds behind me.) The point of all this isn't to say that I'm that fast. I shot some regional 3gn Nation style matches and got my ass smoked by some real shooters. It's that in the shooting world there's such a massive spectrum of what people think "fast" is.
This is why we have timers and scoring zones. This is also why competition /= a gunfight and if you’re ever confusing the two you’ve got some serious issues.
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They are probably just preparing us for a scoring revision to IDPA this summer, where each down point is 10 seconds.
MistWolf
02-24-2019, 12:27 PM
That's not really what they said, but I agree more with you than them. They were basically taking from the "you young kids and your go fast can't hit stuff in the real world."
Ken Hackathorn has a thorough knowledge and deep experience with speed vs accuracy. He'll set up a drill and have a shooter shoot it as quickly as he can while making good, clean hits. Then, he'll have the shooter shoot the same drill faster and faster until accuracy falls apart. He does this so the shooter can find their limits. Then he has the shooter push and expand those limits so good, accurate hits can be made quickly.
Conversely, Ken will take a fast shooter and force them to slow down to make good clean hits by making them shot at smaller and smaller targets while maintaining their speed until they again find their limit. Then he'll push them to shoot smaller targets at speed. He also changes up distance to targets and uses them in the same manner.
Ken's techniques are good at proving most shooters can be faster and more accurate than they believe.
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