Should I buy a new P226 X-Five Allround (or two), or am I dumb?

[tyrusasmith]

I don't know if all this backstory is necessary or appropriate in this forum section, but it may help you get a feel of where I'm coming from. In short, I want to buy a new P226 X-Five Allround for $2900, run it through its paces. If it proves reliable I'll get another and use the original as my AIWB carry gun. Am I dumb for choosing the X-Five over my P229, a P226, or P226 SSE for EDC and USPSA?

Other quick facts:

I can shoot well enough to have earned a Light Pin* (* Lots of warm up, but hey I did it)
I plan to dry fire practice at least 2 sessions per day at least 5 minutes per session.
I need 2 identical guns eventually.
I have and enjoy a P229R DA/SA, and my deceased father’s P229 DAK. I would never sell them, but I’m going to convert his DAK to a DA/SA slowly but surely.
I can carry and conceal the weight of a X-Five no problem ( I’ve done some goofy tests).
I’ve successfully tried carrying 5 inch size gun AIWB.
I currently carry a P229R AIWB with P226 Mags.
I don’t care if the gun gets taken away in a DGU.
Price isn’t a big deal.



I’ll probably work the stuff below into a Gabe White AAR, and training journal soon, but this situation is prompting me to put this on paper and it applies to my current purchase decision. Read at your own risk.

About 6 years ago I made myself a challenge to try to get down to 200 lbs (from 240 at the time). I swore off donuts, and my prize for the challenge was a pile of donuts as a birthday cake and I'd be able to buy whatever gun I wanted. I got down to 210, and my wife got pregnant, I gained it all back. Got back down to 215, wife got pregnant again, gained it all back. Well, this past summer I got to 265 lbs and was feeling lazy and fat, so I started the challenge again on my birthday.

The new motivation was more specific, I'd get a KAC SR-15, and I'd be able to carry my P229 AIWB (and the donut cake thing). I was doing well at 220 lbs and started trying my wife's P320SC AIWB. It worked alright, but I wanted to carry my gun. My wife bought me a Fitbit after I was enamored over the data hers provided her and I went into overdrive to lose the additional weight. In anticipation for reaching my goal I started looking into AIWB holsters. I landed on the Keeper and then found out about Gabe White and watched Lucky Gunner’s review of the class.

Low and behold Gabe was scheduled to come to my area, so I booked the class immediately even though I didn’t know much more than that video review. I then ordered a Keeper. I did a ton of research into what the class was about, and found out about the pins. I went to my range and shot a bunch of ammo without a plan. I wasn’t getting any good times for pin runs. I then started listening to Firearms Nation Podcast and all the top shooters really harped on dry fire practice. I then made a plan and dry fire practiced for over an hour a day every day for 50 days. Mixed in there was 1000 rounds of live ammo. I could see immediate results in my performance, and also it was helping my physical fitness and weight loss goals. I really got hooked on pistol shooting about 10 days in, and my SR-15 dreams turned into P320 X5, P226 Legion, and P226 SSE dreams. I was determined to earn a light pin.

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About 15 days in I ended up borrowing a G17.5, P226, and, P320 FS to see if any of these guns could beat my P229 on the Gabe White Standards. Except for the P226, they all won out. I attributed it to the Bob Vogel grip I could get on the other guns. Too high a grip on the P229 and I’d hit the already cut down decocker a little on the P229 causing light strikes. I then added a little bump on the P229 to shield the decocker from my support hand drumstick and started wrapping my support hand trigger finger on the trigger guard like Yong Lee. Then, my P229 beat out all the other guns in a variety of drills out to 7 yards. I was super excited and proud of my P229’s performance against these latest and greatest guns (The P226 was an old German folded slide model though).
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A few days before the class, in dry fire, I was able to attain honest Turbo Pin runs 3 times in a row on all the drills except the Bill Drill after a significant warmup and many reps. In live fire, I could get Turbo on Failure to Stop and Immediate incapacitation after warmup, and about 3 or 4 reps. Light runs on the other 2. I was confident I could earn a light pin, but had Turbo in my grasp if I did my part.

This was my first match or class in 5 years, so I had match anxiety no matter how many times I relistened to Steve Anderson and Lanny Bassham in the few days before the class. To compound this I bought the cheapest remanufactured ammo and it was failing to ignite on a good number of rounds. I even had a squib on the second day. I tried to calm down, but my Fitbit was saying my heart rate never dropped below 131 BPM in the ½ hour leading up to the Bill Drill pin run. I was mostly just standing there doing nothing. My resting heart rate is 55 bpm. I ended up getting a 0 and a dark on the Bill Drill, then 2 darks on the FTS. The rest of the class day was less stressful and very fun.

Gabe, some classmates, and I went eat in the area then I drove another 1.5 hours back home. I got back at 9 and dry fired for about 2.5 hours, stayed focused the whole time. I woke up 3 hours early the next day, dry fired for ½ hour, went to Walmart, buy some factory ammo, and got the range about 1 hour before class at 6 am and started dry firing some more for another ½ hour – 45 minutes. Then during my wait to the pin runs, I practiced reacting to Gabe’s timer and clearing my garment. Honestly, I felt the timer anxiety was one of my biggest hurdles. In practice I set my timer to 1.5-2 second delay to get the most reps in. Gabe must have had his about 4-6 seconds. It felt like an eternity and that tripped me up. The dry fire practice immediately before helped out though. I ended getting 2 turbo runs on II, and 2 lights on the split bill drill. I left with a hard earned light pin and I was satisfied that I met my goal plus all the additional knowledge I got from the class.
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I’ve always been a “watch out for the guy with one gun, he knows how to use it guy”, and Gabe’s philosophy of “compete with what you carry” has further solidified my thinking. I also think I need a carry gun that always stays in ready condition, and a range/ ranch gun that will get run to the ground when I’m out doing Cajun cowboy stuff in my muddy pasture. It has been a pain to try to keep my P229 in a condition for reliable carry, and bring it out to the ranch to get saw chips, mud, sweat, and other crap ( literal crap too) out of it. In the case of the P226 X-Five, if it starts choking when it gets really messy, I’ll bring my P229 out on those occasions, and the X-Five on the outings that have less potential for choked with debris status. I mainly use a pistol on the ranch to shoot venomous snakes, vultures, armadillos and nutria rats. I carry heavy items on my belt all the time, so I’m use to the weight the X-Five would impart. To test this theory, I’ve been junk carrying my P229 and a 1”, 1 lb. bolt in my pants to get used of the weight. It doesn’t seem to be a problem. Hell, I used to EDC 65+ extra pounds in my belly just 200 days ago.
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In competition, lots of people shoot G17, or G35, Tanfo, and P320s. No one it seems is shooting a P229 at the top levels, and if they shoot a classic Sig they opt for a P226. I would be fine with a P320 X-Five, but I like the character of the SIG DA/SA, and I like thumbing the hammer during re-holstering. My wife said I can start shooting up to 6 matches a year, and now I want to make sure I’m equipped as well as I can be, and get a present for myself. My P229 with Trijicon HD XR does great at 7 yards both in accuracy and speed, but at 15 yards and beyond, I’m faster getting A zone hits with a P320 FS with stock 3 dot sights and a P226. To best test my p226 is better at distance theory, I stripped my P229 and put the trigger guts of mine in the P226. I left out the decocker so I could get a high grip without modifying the P226’s grip panel. I then shot the P226 better at distance. That leads me to believe there may be something to sight radius at distance. Sub 10 yards, my P229 still beats everything I’ve tried, I blame it on familiarity, and the sights.

All this brings me to my current mindset. I think that the choice should be among a P226, P226 Legion, P226 SSE, and P226 X-Five Allround. I’d think that the competition worthiness of each of those would ascend in that respective order and price seems to be the only con. (maybe too much weight for target transitions?, but people run equally heavy Tanfos) There may be a reliability issue with the X-Five for EDC, but if that proves to be the case after a couple thousand rounds I might just run an X-Five for competition and a similarly setup P226 SSE for carry. Am I missing something in my path to this conclusion for a Carry / Competition setup based on my situation?

[jwperry]

I would not want the exposed rear adjustable sight of the X5 on a carry gun. I also think that concealed carry holster selection might be difficult to non-existent.

I carry either a P229 or P226 90% of the time. (rare occasions a P239) Since adding RMRs, my long range shooting performance delta has evaporated when comparing my P229 or P226.

I have the same issue with you in regards to hitting the decocker, but my issue is with the P226. I don't really concern myself with what other people are shooting/excelling with because they aren't me(if that attitude makes sense). I like the Legion P229 over the classic P229 (the trigger guard undercut really does it for feel/control for me) but I'm pretty even on Legion vs standard P226. I liked my Legion P226 SAO so much that I sold my Nighthawk 1911s because they were redundant. I found that within 6 weeks of shooting the SAO that I prefer my Sigs in DA/SA, so I traded away my SAO for a 1301T.

Do you have much experience with the abbreviated Legion controls?

[tyrusasmith]

I would not want the exposed rear adjustable sight of the X5 on a carry gun. I also think that concealed carry holster selection might be difficult to non-existent.

I carry either a P229 or P226 90% of the time. (rare occasions a P239) Since adding RMRs, my long range shooting performance delta has evaporated when comparing my P229 or P226.

I have the same issue with you in regards to hitting the decocker, but my issue is with the P226. I don't really concern myself with what other people are shooting/excelling with because they aren't me(if that attitude makes sense). I like the Legion P229 over the classic P229 (the trigger guard undercut really does it for feel/control for me) but I'm pretty even on Legion vs standard P226. I liked my Legion P226 SAO so much that I sold my Nighthawk 1911s because they were redundant. I found that within 6 weeks of shooting the SAO that I prefer my Sigs in DA/SA, so I traded away my SAO for a 1301T.

Do you have much experience with the abbreviated Legion controls?

Thanks for your input.

Do you think this alternate available sight is equally as fragile?
X-Five Options Video (https://youtu.be/t3neqIt6Mmg?t=112)
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As far as holsters, I plan to get another Keeper even if I have to send the gun to them to make one. If that isn't possible, I'll try to replicate my P229 Holster with Kydex, or the 3d printer at work. I'll find a solution for a holster.

I may also go the Acro P1 route on my P229, but I really like irons right now. I'm still keeping RDS as a possibility.

I bought the P224 controls (same as legion) as soon as I learned they existed. They are better, but still cause light strikes and the slide stop disabling when shooting with a crazy high grip. The JB weld on the grip panel to make a bulge is my favorite workable solution.

[jwperry]

tyrusasmith
That rear definitely looks more comfortable. I'm at work and can't watch the video with sound, but if that takes standard Sig dovetailed sights you can get Dawson to make custom height front sights to regulate your POA/POI to your liking. The X5 is a lot of gun...and a lot of expensive gun. I've never shot/held/seen one, so I can't comment on the overall quality of them, but I wonder if they're truly worth the expense over a GGI or Sig Armorer worked Sig. The classic folded slide is a mild deterrent for me personally too.

Have you tried any of the wood grips for Sigs? They're especially large and might help prevent you from accidentally activating the controls. I have small hands, so I wasn't be able to reach the DA trigger very well when I tried them.

[tyrusasmith]

jwperry
Link to gun (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/798198550)

The new X-Fives have machined slides, and the dovetail accepts standard Sig Classic Sights. I've tried a variety of grips including the wood ones, and they all do the same thing with my preferred grip. I'm not opposed to running a cut decocker, slide stop, and JB weld bump on the X-Five the same way I do with my P229. (I'd run some Houge G10 Chain link grips, not the fancy X-Five ones.)

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[MSparks909]

You can snag two 9mm P226 Legions ($2,400), a holster ($80-100), and 2,000 rounds of 9mm ammo for the price of one P226 X-5 All around...just saying. I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze personally.

[Eric_L]

Congratulations on the weight loss! And the shooting, great good practice, and it sounds like you learned to practice very well in a short amount of time.

[taadski]

I've been known to shoot a Sig or two. And I own a pair of X5 Allrounds that are my production guns. They're really pleasant shooting pistols. They're tack drivers and typically run really well. But there exists a notable achilles heel for them, in my opinion. And that's their long internal extractor. The newer designed X5 version is a bunch better than the old ones that came in them. But it's still a weak point in the gun. I've broken or chipped a couple of them, and not at exceedingly high round counts. And that's not the bad part. The BAD part is replacements are particularly difficult to come by. I've literally only found one importer that regularly stocks them in the US. And they charge a premium penny for them, approaching $100 each. FWIW.

[tyrusasmith]

taadski
I'm glad to hear from someone who owns a few.

Do you have enough experience with regular P226s and/or P226 SSE to make a comparison among those models and the X-Five?
Is the extractor something covered under warranty, and does SIG USA deal with warranty issues for these imported guns?

[tyrusasmith]

taadski
I'm glad to hear from someone who owns a few.

Do you have enough experience with regular P226s and/or P226 SSE to make a comparison among those models and the X-Five?
Is the extractor something covered under warranty, and does SIG USA deal with warranty issues for these imported guns?


Doing more research, I've actually found your exact thoughts on the X Five vs others below: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20281-Steel-vs-aluminum-frame-(Sig-in-particular-but-mainly-in-general)&p=438263&viewfull=1#post438263


I've been carrying aluminum P series pistols on the job for almost 20 years. My experimentation in the shooting sports the last several of those drove me to trying the steel framed versions. You know, fixing software with hardware and all. ;)

I can't really quantify the differences in handling. The heavier guns FEEL slower, but I've NOT seen an increase in my draw times or transitions. Perhaps I'm just not at the skill level where that matters, but at my level, it has not shown up on the timer.

The recoil impulse, on the other hand, IS notably lighter with them. But the sight tracking characteristics still seem more dependent on the recoil spring weight, the ammunition PF and the slide weight/length than purely the weight of the frame IMO.

FWIW, I think the flattest shooting pistol I own is a 9mm X-5 Allround frame with a standard 226 slide on top. It shoots FLAT! Alas, I don't believe that combination is production legal (at least until they start importing the stainless 226 LDC). In the mean time my primary game gun will remain a resprung stainless 226. (And incidentally, my carry/duty guns will remain railed aluminum versions).

And not to start a debate, but I love the heck out of the beavertailed frames (yes even the old style ones). :p For hands *my size* (XL but thin), they don't at all negatively affect the height with which I'm able to grasp the grip. The contour up to where the beaver tail starts is identical to a standard frame.

Just my 2 cents.


t

[taadski]

taadski
I'm glad to hear from someone who owns a few.

Do you have enough experience with regular P226s and/or P226 SSE to make a comparison among those models and the X-Five?
Is the extractor something covered under warranty, and does SIG USA deal with warranty issues for these imported guns?


The post you found still pretty well summarizes my take. Although I have been shooting the pair of X5s more consistently now for a while. I might tweak my answer to appreciating the 5" gun a bit more these days. They're probably my favorite pure shooters. But it's hair splitting. And I still carry a standard 226R for work and daily use.

Re warranty stuff, my info is a bit dated, but it is my understanding that the answer is no. Separate manufacturer, all together, hence the exorbitant costs. However there have been some rumors that some of the "custom shop" guns may start getting built in NH. But I've personally not seen any actual evidence to support it, other than perhaps the American version of the P210.

[LSP552]

The post you found still pretty well summarizes my take. Although I have been shooting the pair of X5s more consistently now for a while. I might tweak my answer to appreciating the 5" gun a bit more these days. They're probably my favorite pure shooters. But it's hair splitting. And I still carry a standard 226R for work and daily use.

I’d kill for a 5” Legion 226......

[taadski]

I’d kill for a 5” Legion 226......


:p


https://i.imgur.com/nkMJQjC.jpg

[tyrusasmith]

I wonder if Sig USA is not making the classic series X line in the US because it would cut into the higher margin P320 x line? They got kinda there with the legions.

Or why can't they just put a short external extractor on the German X-Five. Hell, I'd even settle for a long external extractor.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[taadski]

The LDCs are German made stainless framed pistols with a short external extractor. Might be a middle ground option for you, as they aren't 5", but also aren't $2500 bucks. (shrug)

Here are the girls, btw...




https://i.imgur.com/5el4nqdh.jpg

[tyrusasmith]

The LDCs are German made stainless framed pistols with a short external extractor. Might be a middle ground option for you, as they aren't 5", but also aren't $2500 bucks. (shrug)

Here are the girls, btw...




https://i.imgur.com/5el4nqdh.jpgAlso not production legal, but I'm probably going to run AIWB in Limited Minor.

Still, thanks for posing another option

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[HopetonBrown]

My take for me is... What makes me so damn special or different that I need some snowflake pistol to shoot to the best of my ability?

I've been shooting the same boring Gen 3 Glocks for 6 years now.

[GJM]

:p


https://i.imgur.com/nkMJQjC.jpg

For a second I thought you bought a Walther.


My take for me is... What makes me so damn special or different that I need some snowflake pistol to shoot to the best of my ability?

I've been shooting the same boring Gen 3 Glocks for 6 years now.

While six years may seem a lot to you, Taadski has been shooting a P series for like twenty years. Dropping by a P series love fest thread to drop your G19 is humorous, especially since I knew Taadski won a G19 coupon at an Area match and couldn’t bring himself to owning one as he said it made him feel dirty.

[HopetonBrown]

For a second I thought you bought a Walther.



While six years may seem a lot to you, Taadski has been shooting a P series for like twenty years. Dropping by a P series love fest thread to drop your G19 is humorous, especially since I knew Taadski won a G19 coupon at an Area match and couldn’t bring himself to owning one as he said it made him feel dirty.

Good for taadski!

My comment wassn't pro Glock or anti Sig.

[cornstalker]

The LDCs are German made stainless framed pistols with a short external extractor. Might be a middle ground option for you, as they aren't 5", but also aren't $2500 bucks. (shrug)

Here are the girls, btw...




https://i.imgur.com/5el4nqdh.jpg


That is a badass pic.

[taadski]

LOL. So your saying it’s a bad thing I own 3 times more gadgets than I do Glocks? :p

I actually still own that Glock, but I loaned it to a buddy who needed a carry pistol and haven’t seen it in 3 years or something. Fwiw, I still shoot Glocks out of the box about as well as anything else I own. For whatever reason. If I didn’t work for a one gun agency, I’d seriously consider a full sized 9mm iteration as a duty/carry pistol.

Ok... back to the snowflakes!



Btw, I voted for “You’re stupid. Keep shooting the 229”. 😁

[tyrusasmith]

LOL. So your saying it’s a bad thing I own 3 times more gadgets than I do Glocks? [emoji14]

I actually still own that Glock, but I loaned it to a buddy who needed a carry pistol and haven’t seen it in 3 years or something. Fwiw, I still shoot Glocks out of the box about as well as anything else I own. For whatever reason. If I didn’t work for a one gun agency, I’d seriously consider a full sized 9mm iteration as a duty/carry pistol.

Ok... back to the snowflakes!



Btw, I voted for “You’re stupid. Keep shooting the 229”. [emoji16]Well, I might shoot the P229 until I can't bubba it up anymore.

My next plan is to do some Gucci laser marking all over it. I think I might make a random repeat camo pattern of the cattle brands I have. I have the ranch, my initials, and my kids names in a modern logoish design.

Then I'll 3d print some grips and a flared magwell that will unbubba the bulge.

I might try my hand at a Keeper type holster to fit the P229 and a WML.

By that time, the ACRO will be vetted and I might direct mill one onto the top. ( I really want to shoot irons as long as possible)

Sadly enough, how stupid would it be for me to bubba up the X-Five as soon as I get it? Is that sacrilege? I don't think I'd be able to resist.

[pangloss]

I apologize for the thread drift, but did I correctly understand the OP to say that hitting the decocker on P-series Sigs can cause light strikes? I only ask because I can't shoot a whole mag through my P226 Navy without multiple light strikes. I bought the pistol used. It's obviously a low round count gun, and my understanding at the time of purchase was that everything was stock. I found out I don't like P226s very much, so I haven't put much effort into getting the pistol to run properly. I'm sure I'd like it more with an E2 grip...

[tyrusasmith]

I apologize for the thread drift, but did I correctly understand the OP to say that hitting the decocker on P-series Sigs can cause light strikes? I only ask because I can't shoot a whole mag through my P226 Navy without multiple light strikes. I bought the pistol used. It's obviously a low round count gun, and my understanding at the time of purchase was that everything was stock. I found out I don't like P226s very much, so I haven't put much effort into getting the pistol to run properly. I'm sure I'd like it more with an E2 grip...Yes, only a little push and it will do it.

(Unload gun before testing)
You can test it by pulling the trigger and holding it to the rear. Then push your thumb on the hammer into the firing pin. With your other hand, operate the decocker until you feel it push on the hammer.

If you ride the decocker, you prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin with full force or at all. The image attached shows how little mine needs to move before blocking the hammer, and the other image shows the test technique.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190222/9d49ce8e3ca4f2b0f23a51b4ea74815d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190222/b89743998e9941ddb453106149623b67.jpg

[GJM]

Good for taadski!

My comment wassn't pro Glock or anti Sig.

You do know that your original post goes to the person you quoted as an email. Now I understand why you edited it, since you apparently got your finger on the trigger a bit early.

[pangloss]

Yes, only a little push and it will do it.

(Unload gun before testing)
You can test it by pulling the trigger and holding it to the rear. Then push your thumb on the hammer into the firing pin. With your other hand, operate the decocker until you feel it push on the hammer.

If you ride the decocker, you prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin with full force or at all. The image attached shows how little mine needs to move before blocking the hammer, and the other image shows the test technique.

Thanks so much for that excellent explanation. It's a huge help. Now, I'm almost certain that my grip was causing the problems. I'll have to take this gun back to the range and pay closer attention to my grip.

[tyrusasmith]

Thanks so much for that excellent explanation. It's a huge help. Now, I'm almost certain that my grip was causing the problems. I'll have to take this gun back to the range and pay closer attention to my grip.You could always cut the decocker down, and put a crap ton of JB Weld on it, then paint it black with a sharpie.

Or

Just be a normal person and adjust your grip.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?35291-It-s-Not-a-Tumor-and-it-might-help-with-recoil-on-P22X-series-guns

[HopetonBrown]

You do know that your original post goes to the person you quoted as an email. Now I understand why you edited it, since you apparently got your finger on the trigger a bit early.My post had nothing to do about a Sig love fest or how dirty Glocks make taadski feel. It was not about how many years taadski has been shooting Sigs. It had nothing to do with taadski at all. It was not pro or anti any brand of firearm. I know you're a smart guy so I'm not sure why you went in that direction.

I don't care if you saw my original post about your Sig circle jerk. I changed my response to exercise more decorum on Tom's website.

[pangloss]

You could always cut the decocker down, and put a crap ton of JB Weld on it, then paint it black with a sharpie.

Or

Just be a normal person and adjust your grip.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?35291-It-s-Not-a-Tumor-and-it-might-help-with-recoil-on-P22X-series-guns

That's wild! I'm looking forward to seeing the 3D printed grips. For right now, I think I'll go with option B and just try to adjust my grip. If I can manage to shoot a full mag through the gun without a light strike, I'm sure I'll like it more and get a little bit of positive reinforcement out of shooting it.

[taadski]

My post had nothing to do...with how dirty Glocks make taadski feel. It was not about how many years taadski has been shooting Sigs. It had nothing to do with taadski at all.


https://i.imgur.com/od8nYhLh.jpg

[jwperry]

That's wild! I'm looking forward to seeing the 3D printed grips. For right now, I think I'll go with option B and just try to adjust my grip. If I can manage to shoot a full mag through the gun without a light strike, I'm sure I'll like it more and get a little bit of positive reinforcement out of shooting it.

Easiest way to figure it out would be single handed operation (assuming you're right handed). I prefer the P224/Legion controls for the decocker over cutting down the lever. I cut down the lever once and didn't like it. I'd put a cut down Sig decocker as easy to activate as the Beretta Stealth levers on the PX4 series...only more sharp.

[taadski]

Well, I might shoot the P229 until I can't bubba it up anymore.

My next plan is to do some Gucci laser marking all over it. I think I might make a random repeat camo pattern of the cattle brands I have. I have the ranch, my initials, and my kids names in a modern logoish design.

Then I'll 3d print some grips and a flared magwell that will unbubba the bulge.

I might try my hand at a Keeper type holster to fit the P229 and a WML.

By that time, the ACRO will be vetted and I might direct mill one onto the top. ( I really want to shoot irons as long as possible)

Sadly enough, how stupid would it be for me to bubba up the X-Five as soon as I get it? Is that sacrilege? I don't think I'd be able to resist.


That poor 229 didn't ever do anything mean to you. :) I think you should leave it "Bubba free".

But regardless since you mentioned shooting games and the LDC not being production legal, I figured I'd point out that the grip enhancement mods you're posting (specifically adding material, etc.) aren't legal in production either. FWIW.

[tyrusasmith]

That poor 229 didn't ever do anything mean to you. :) I think you should leave it "Bubba free".

But regardless since you mentioned shooting games and the LDC not being production legal, I figured I'd point out that the grip enhancement mods you're posting (specifically adding material, etc.) aren't legal in production either. FWIW.

I'm not set on what division I'll shoot yet. I'll probably shoot limited minor anyway for AIWB, but if not... changing the grip is easier that buying a whole new gun. My hopes would be that the X-Five, due to natural recoil mitigation, wouldn't require any grip mods, and maybe only cut controls.

But Damn... you might be right.....
Only $1750 too, AND the short extractor (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/800485999)
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[Jim Watson]

Seems like a lot of thought, work, and expense for

My wife said I can start shooting up to 6 matches a year

It takes perfect health and weather to hit them all, but when things are just right, I can get six matches a MONTH.
I don't have a wife, though.

If you just must, Bruce Gray makes an upgraded internal extractor. Requires milling and fitting to the whole gun, therefore expensive.
https://grayguns.com/sig-sauer-p-220-x-5-internal-extractor-2/


For a while I campaigned a P226 with every GGI upgrade allowed in IDPA.
Never had trouble with interference from the decocking lever but the miniscule slide stop was an annoyance to me shooting IDPA where slide lock reloads are common and after long experience in 1911 with prominent slide stop.

I was briefly tempted by a Legion SAO in spite of that, then I got to shoot a P226 Elite SAO which I preferred. But it is discontinued and the guy wouldn't sell me his. Just as well.

[OlongJohnson]

I'm not set on what division I'll shoot yet. I'll probably shoot limited minor anyway for AIWB, but if not... changing the grip is easier that buying a whole new gun. My hopes would be that the X-Five, due to natural recoil mitigation, wouldn't require any grip mods, and maybe only cut controls.

But Damn... you might be right.....
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Don't forget that the ability of the cheap knockoff of the Sig that beats it in the "stomp it in the mud and don't dunk it in a river before firing it" test likely does so only because of its LDC keeping crap from sticking to the sides of the slide and getting dragged into the rails.

[tyrusasmith]

Don't forget that the ability of the cheap knockoff of the Sig that beats it in the "stomp it in the mud and don't dunk it in a river before firing it" test likely does so only because of its LDC keeping crap from sticking to the sides of the slide and getting dragged into the rails.You killin me dawg. That's one of the reasons I like my P229R so much. There isn't much slide dust cover sticking out. I put my P229 in the mud like MAC and it did great.

On the LDC, I don't like how far forward the rear dovetail is though. That's the only knock on it I can see.

Decisions Decisions.

[OlongJohnson]

You could probably have a smith make a filler and cut a standard dovetail in the standard location.

[tyrusasmith]

Well, I've been listening to Scott Jedlinski, and I'm getting seriously interested in red dots again. That would negate my sight radius issue. And I feel like my grip mod is giving me good enough recoil mitigation. I can run my P229 as a test mule and see what happens.

I 3D printed a fit check bridge mount for an old Burris fast fire 2 to do dry fire index practice, and I'll print a more durable one to live fire with soon enough.

I also 3d printed an Aimpoint ACRO mockup to fit on the gun and check how it prints in the holster. Not too bad.

I'll play around with this for a while and see how I like it. If it all checks out, I'll probably direct mill (I'll be milling with a lathe, should be fun) an ACRO to my P229 at work and train with that for a while to see if it will satisfy my itch for a more competition orientated gun that will also be suitable for daily carry.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190304/26ee9c21073de640485e45bc26f69d40.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190304/95d6b0a15a2c3f70090547659147ccdf.jpg

[tyrusasmith]

So I did some more T&E among my main P229 with Trijicon HD XR iron sights, a stock Full-size P320 with white 3 dot sights, and my main P229 with a different slide equipped with a dovetail mount Burris Fast fire 2 RDS.

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I dry fire with my main P229 for 10 - 90 minutes daily, 15 minutes average. Live fire 50 rounds or so every week, and every 3 weekends I might put 100- 500 rounds through it.

I haven't shot the P320 much, and never dry fire it. Shot maybe 500 rounds total through it over the last 100 days.

For the RDS slide, I put about 20 minutes of draw and transition practice through it, and shot 50 rounds of .40 through it.

I set up a drill to test my performance of the guns. 2 targets @ 7 yards, 4 ft spacing. From low ready shoot T1 & T2 with 2 rounds each.

Here are the average results using USPSA minor scoring after taking out the highest and lowest score:
Main P229: 7.9 HF
P320: 8.35 HF
P229 RDS: 9.5 HF

That means I shoot the P320 5.3% faster, and the RDS 16.8% faster than my main gun.

It is killing me that the P320 is faster with no practice whatsoever, and I'm super excited that the RDS is faster. I'm wondering if it is time to switch configurations.

On these drills, my splits with the 229, RDS or not, average .24, and the P320 averages .21. Transitions are the same, and the time to first shot is quicker on the P320.

I'm struggling with the idea of carrying a P320 AIWB because I put so much value into thumbing the hammer when reholstering. Although if I'm super duper careful and look the gun in like a hawk, I might be able to be comfortable carrying a striker gun without a gadget AIWB.

The P320 also just feels faster for some reason, I can get my bill drill splits down to .17 with it rather than .21 with the P229. I think the slide and recoil spring weights might have a big part in that feeling. It seems like speed might have been a consideration in the design process of thr P320 whereas the P229's older design philosophy might have just focused on it being a reliable gun.

I'm wondering if a P226 LDC II or a P226 X-Five Allround might have that same feeling if speed, or it will be just a more accurate softer recoiling version of my current P229.

I'll mull over it some more and see what else I can come up with. I think I might end up running a RDS AIWB from concealment in Open division. If that is on a P320, P229, or P226 variant is still up in the air.

In short, I'd like to have equipment that might give a huge performance jump, and based on this little test it seems that I could get a boost either with a P320, RDS or both. The main point is that I was immediately better without much practice on those platforms.
Opinions welcome.

[tyrusasmith]

Here are the average results using USPSA minor scoring after taking out the highest and lowest score:
Main P229: 7.9 HF
P320: 8.35 HF
P229 RDS: 9.5 HF

That means I shoot the P320 5.3% faster, and the RDS 16.8% faster than my main gun.


Went out again today to try to beat the P320 times with my P229. I dry fired the drill for about 5 minutes, then did about 30 reps and came out with a 9.21 HF average.

So now I can shoot my P229 about 12% faster than the P320 again. I improved over my time yesterday by about 15.5%.

I'm happy with my P229 again.

[JAD]

There is a definite new gun honeymoon. I like to run the Rangemaster Test with a new gun after the fifth session or so.

[tyrusasmith]

Well, my wife gave me a blank check to get whatever guns I wanted for Father's day. Little did I know she was about to secretly pull the trigger on a pair of P320 X-Fives, but she backed down at the last minute because she wanted to make sure. Also, she did end up ordering an Acro, but cancelled the order because she didn't know what adapter I would have needed. Honestly, I learned the true meaning of "It's the thought that counts."

Anyway, I've decided to double down on the P229. I ordered the parts needed to convert my late Father's DAK P229 to da/sa, I got a set of Dawson fiber sights coming in, and a Gray Guns enhanced trigger bar kit. I spent the rest of the blank check on a few thousand rounds of ammo.

Now I'll have identical carry and competition guns. One will be my training/match gun and the other will be my carry gun.

Should be fun. Thanks for the input from you all. Let's see how long this mindset will last before I want those P226 All-rounds again....

[tyrusasmith]

So, in order to give myself the most options, I petitioned to have the P226 LDC added to the production gun list, and in turn, carry optics eligible. They added it, woo hoo! In anticipation I've designed a milling solution to low mount an SRO. I'll try it first on my P229.
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https://uspsa.org/productionlist
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