Help Give Me Some Advice On New Pistol Purchase

[plotinus]

Hi all,

So, I recently sold several of my firearms, I had collected a lot and realized most were collecting dust, as there are a few that I shoot almost exclusively.

I want to get two new pistols, one that’s smaller to mid size, and one that’s bigger with a longer barrel/slide.

I have the opportunity to buy a Sphinx SDP tomorrow for $800, which would fulfill the smaller to mid size gun, but I’m wondering if the increased cost really makes it that much better than a CZ P07 (or 9). General impressions about the Sphinx, especially vs the CZ?

Then as far as the bigger gun goes, it’s a toss-up between a PPQ 5”, the urban grey suppressor ready CZ 75 Omega, or a 1911 (I’ve shot many, but never owned one— I’d likely go either Kimber or Colt Government). I shoot very well with the PPQ 5”, my dad has one, but it also has a bit of the famed slide rattle, which triggers my ocd.

As far as purposes, I’m mainly concerned with practicing to enhance my proficiency, with hopes of one day being competition worthy. I shoot my HK VP9 and P30 both heavily, but I want something a bit different. I own a CZ 75b, but I feel like the omega trigger version would be more shootable, as I really enjoy the trigger on the P09.

I’m also open to any other suggestions.

Thanks for indulging my inquiry. I am trying to avoid collecting a bunch of guns that I am not going to use, I prefer quality over quantity, and I’ve been racking my brain over this.

[ASH556]

I’m also open to any other suggestions.



Pick one model or at least one platform and stick with it until you can shoot to an acceptable level on some known standards. Nothing you've mentioned is something I would consider.

Things I would consider in your position:
-9mm Glock
-9mm Beretta (PX or 92 series)
-HK P30 or VP-9 if you must go exotic/expensive

Buy two. When you can keep 10 rounds in the 10 ring slowfire at 10 yards on a B8, begin to evaluate sights and other things to modify the pistol to yourself. The better you get the more you'll realize it doesn't matter.

The advantage to Glocks is you can buy two for $1,000 (what you're talking about spending on each gun) and then use the rest of the money on ammo.

[plotinus]

Pick one model or at least one platform and stick with it until you can shoot to an acceptable level on some known standards. Nothing you've mentioned is something I would consider.

Things I would consider in your position:
-9mm Glock
-9mm Beretta (PX or 92 series)
-HK P30 or VP-9 if you must go exotic/expensive

Buy two. When you can keep 10 rounds in the 10 ring slowfire at 10 yards on a B8, begin to evaluate sights and other things to modify the pistol to yourself. The better you get the more you'll realize it doesn't matter.

The advantage to Glocks is you can buy two for $1,000 (what you're talking about spending on each gun) and then use the rest of the money on ammo.

Hey there, thanks for the advice. I actually own the HK P30 and VP9, I can accomplish what you say with those guns (10 yards slow fire in the center ring). Shooting rapidly on the other hand is something I am not as proficient with— I was wondering if perhaps there was another platform that would be better suited to rapid fire (something I probably should’ve mentioned in my initial post), but maybe additional practice is the answer. I just know that I can shoot rapidly with my father’s PPQ 5” and still produce a really tight group, while my rapid groups with the VP9 are sloppier.

[ubervic]

Pick one model or at least one platform and stick with it until you can shoot to an acceptable level on some known standards. Nothing you've mentioned is something I would consider.

Things I would consider in your position:
-9mm Glock
-9mm Beretta (PX or 92 series)
-HK P30 or VP-9 if you must go exotic/expensive

Buy two. When you can keep 10 rounds in the 10 ring slowfire at 10 yards on a B8, begin to evaluate sights and other things to modify the pistol to yourself. The better you get the more you'll realize it doesn't matter.

The advantage to Glocks is you can buy two for $1,000 (what you're talking about spending on each gun) and then use the rest of the money on ammo.

I resisted or outright discounted Glocks for almost 6 years, gravitating to other makes with varying degrees of shooting success. And then I shot one for a while and saw the light.

Glocks are far simpler in design yet more reliable/robust than are many other pistols, you can buy parts & accessories all over the place, they've quite affordable, and they are plenty accurate if you do your part. While I may certainly dabble with other pistols going forward, I'm sure I'll always have at least one Glock----and it'll very likely always be my go-to.

[ASH556]

Hey there, thanks for the advice. I actually own the HK P30 and VP9, I can accomplish what you say with those guns (10 yards slow fire in the center ring). Shooting rapidly on the other hand is something I am not as proficient with— I was wondering if perhaps there was another platform that would be better suited to rapid fire (something I probably should’ve mentioned in my initial post), but maybe additional practice is the answer. I just know that I can shoot rapidly with my father’s PPQ 5” and still produce a really tight group, while my rapid groups with the VP9 are sloppier.

If you want to buy a 5" PPQ, roll on. Heck, go one better and buy a Q5 match. But you're dealing with a training issue. If you want to become a better shooter, buy a spot in a class instead of a gun.

[Robinson]

I think a Glock 9mm (G17 or G19 for example) is often a good answer. Good design, noted for general reliability, lots of aftermarket support.

I had a CZ with the Omega trigger and I liked it (mostly).

I am a 1911 user, and I guess my advice on that is -- if you want to own a 1911 because they are interesting firearms or to own a piece of American history then go for it -- buy one that you like and enjoy it. But if you want to put a 1911 to serious use as a defensive pistol then you should start researching it now and learn everything you can about 1911s. The maintenance on a 1911 isn't generally a big deal, but isn't really the same as a Glock either. Learn how the gun operates and how to make sure it runs properly. They can be great pistols but aren't always the best answer depending on the person and situation.

[plotinus]

If you want to buy a 5" PPQ, roll on. Heck, go one better and buy a Q5 match. But you're dealing with a training issue. If you want to become a better shooter, buy a spot in a class instead of a gun.

I think you’re right. I already own some fairly nice pistols, perhaps I’d be better off investing in additional training. I shoot a lot (I live only five minutes from a great range and have a pass), and have taken some classes, so I’m probably the most proficient among the gun friends I do have, but I’ve been getting frustrated as there are certain abilities I’m having difficulty mastering— I was thinking perhaps new equipment would help (people tell me the extra barrel length assists in accuracy), but perhaps time and more training would be the best investment.

[plotinus]

I think a Glock 9mm (G17 or G19 for example) is often a good answer. Good design, noted for general reliability, lots of aftermarket support.

I had a CZ with the Omega trigger and I liked it (mostly).

I am a 1911 user, and I guess my advice on that is -- if you want to own a 1911 because they are interesting firearms or to own a piece of American history then go for it -- buy one that you like and enjoy it. But if you want to put a 1911 to serious use as a defensive pistol then you should start researching it now and learn everything you can about 1911s. The maintenance on a 1911 isn't generally a big deal, but isn't really the same as a Glock either. Learn how the gun operates and how to make sure it runs properly. They can be great pistols but aren't always the best answer depending on the person and situation.

I love how the 1911 handles and I love the history behind it. I would consider using it defensively as well, so I’ll do as you suggest. Do you happen to have any recommendations in the below $1000 range? My buddy swears by the Springfield mil spec, which I’ve shot and done well with, but the Kimbers and Colts at my lgs seem nicer (though I haven’t actually shot those). I’ve shot some of his nicer custom ones too, but I don’t want to spend a fortune.

[jamautry]

Since it sounds like you are frustrated with your current performance I am going to suggest taking the money for the new gun and investing it in a training class from a nationally recognized instructor. The old saying is we don't know what we don't know, quality instruction will go a long way in making progress.

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[Bigghoss]

I would go further and pick either the P30 or VP9 since they have different triggers. Choose one of the two, standardize on that exclusively (or sell them both and choose another platform but that might put your further behind on the skill curve) and get some training, mags and ammo.

[RJ]

As far as purposes, I’m mainly concerned with practicing to enhance my proficiency, with hopes of one day being competition worthy.



Hi, I'm not really qualified to give advice on buying pistols, but I did want to ask: can you elaborate on what kind of competition you might be talking about here?

[TC215]

I love how the 1911 handles and I love the history behind it. I would consider using it defensively as well, so I’ll do as you suggest. Do you happen to have any recommendations in the below $1000 range? My buddy swears by the Springfield mil spec, which I’ve shot and done well with, but the Kimbers and Colts at my lgs seem nicer (though I haven’t actually shot those). I’ve shot some of his nicer custom ones too, but I don’t want to spend a fortune.

Yes. A Glock 19. ;)

But seriously, if I were you I’d dedicate myself to the VP9 or the P30.

[plotinus]

Well, it seems like the consensus is to stick with what I have. I shoot best with the VP9, so I guess that is going to be my primary training companion for a while.

I’ll probably get a 1911 just for fun, but invest the rest of my gun money into training, mags, and so forth. I’ve got 3k rounds of 9mm sitting at home right now, so that’s probably a good start.

Thanks everyone!

[Robinson]

I love how the 1911 handles and I love the history behind it. I would consider using it defensively as well, so I’ll do as you suggest. Do you happen to have any recommendations in the below $1000 range? My buddy swears by the Springfield mil spec, which I’ve shot and done well with, but the Kimbers and Colts at my lgs seem nicer (though I haven’t actually shot those). I’ve shot some of his nicer custom ones too, but I don’t want to spend a fortune.

For below $1000 you should stay with Colt or Springfield Armory, maybe Ruger. The basic models such as the Mil Spec are cool and I like the looks of the basic guns, but really upgrades like a beavertail grip safety and an undercut trigger guard allow you to get your hand up higher on the gun which is better for modern shooting techniques.

I have had really good luck with Colts and I've also had a couple of Springfield Armory guns and S&W 1911s that performed well. Dan Wesson gets a lot of support here and they are a really good gun for the money -- but I'll go against the grain here a little bit and say they have their share of issues like other production guns. But really solid for the $$$.

On my sub-$1000 Colts I usually invest some time and money getting them how I want them and making sure they are totally reliable before putting them in a holster or in the night stand. You probably shouldn't view a 1911 that you will bet your life on as a sub-$1000 project. It's possible but not guaranteed.

I agree with others that spending your available funds on some training is a good idea. If you still have the 1911 itch, wait until you can afford one and pick one up. It sounds like you are on the right track.

[HopetonBrown]

but it also has a bit of the famed slide rattle, which triggers my ocd.


How do you know if your slide rattles?

[Duelist]

How do you know if your slide rattles?

Might be the sound of rattling...

[plotinus]

How do you know if your slide rattles?

There is a noticeable amount of play between the slide and frame when it’s unloaded (still there when loaded, but less severe), shaking it slightly will cause it to noticeably rattle, it’s visually observable and also creates a noise—I’ve done a lot of research and this is an issue several people have noted about the PPQ, though apparently not everyone experiences it, and it seems more common on the 5”.

It apparently has no impact on reliability or accuracy, but it bugs me a little nonetheless. It’s my dad’s gun, he got a fantastic deal on it, the PPQ 5” with paddle release can be had for like 450-ish on gunbuyer, with no sales tax.

Anyways, the issue isn’t extreme, but it’s the most play/rattle I’ve experienced on a handgun, and I’ve shot quite a few. At the same time, I can rapidly shoot with it better than any gun I have ever fired. The price is right, I just don’t know if I can get past that rattle, which seems to be commonplace. If you’re REALLY curious, search PPQ slide rattle on YouTube and there should be at least one result with a lot of discussion about the particular quirk of that gun.

[HopetonBrown]

Why the fuck are you shaking your gun?

[plotinus]

Why the fuck are you shaking your gun?

I think you’re misunderstanding, lol. It doesn’t require an extreme amount of shaking, even slightly moving it from side to side will produce the effect I described. Of course when I noticed that, then I investigated further, but I’m by no means wildly and vigorously shaking any gun...

[DG12]

You handled that better than I would.

HK slide rattle is an issue that’s been around for a while. Maybe google it.

Some people handle their guns and experiment. I had a HK and the slide rattled slightly. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a person to shake their gun slightly or generally “mess” with it just trying to see what may be going on.

To the OP, mostly good advice so far I think. I agree with ASH556. If you want to get something new I would start with a couple of Glocks.

[HopetonBrown]

HK slide rattle is an issue that’s been around for a while. Maybe google it.


I owned 5 HKs, I never shook them so I have no idea if they rattled.

I think you two are spending too much time on gun forums filled with doods who spend more time shrink tubing their slide stops and color-filling their roll marks with their mothers nail polish than they do actually shooting. You can't fly like an eagle if you're on the ground with the turkeys.

OP, just buy two of whatever gun you want, join your local IDPA/USPSA club, take a class with a nationally known instructor, dry fire 15 minutes a day, report back with results. I bet one of the results will be you no longer care if your gun rattles when you shake it.

[olstyn]

hopes of one day being competition worthy

The best/fastest way to become "competition worthy" is to go compete. As others have already said, pick a single platform, be it HK, Glock, Walther, Beretta, CZ, whatever; they all work and are all high-quality guns. Sell off everything else you don't actually *need*, buy 2 copies of your chosen platform and any requisite support gear you don't already have, and go compete. You'll be having fun and becoming a better shooter before you know it. Fear of being embarrassed/not winning is a really poor reason to not compete. Almost nobody goes to their first USPSA or IDPA match and kicks ass, so going in with as little ego/expectation and as much open mind/desire to learn as possible is best.

Of course, once you start down this path, a reloading setup won't be far behind if you don't already have one...

[Cookie Monster]

Dry practice 15 minutes a day, two identical handguns, classes, 10000 rounds of practice ammo, lights for all occasions.

[pangloss]

Sell off everything else you don't actually *need*, buy 2 copies of your chosen platform and any requisite support gear you don't already have, and go compete.

I don't think it's necessary to sell everything. Just pick one model and dedicate all practice to it for a while. If the pick is a new pistol, that's fine. The older pistols aren't hurting anything, and it's nice to have examples of different pistols, even if one rarely shoots them. I guess there is some wiggle room in the word need.


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[plotinus]

I owned 5 HKs, I never shook them so I have no idea if they rattled.

I think you two are spending too much time on gun forums filled with doods who spend more time shrink tubing their slide stops and color-filling their roll marks with their mothers nail polish than they do actually shooting. You can't fly like an eagle if you're on the ground with the turkeys.

OP, just buy two of whatever gun you want, join your local IDPA/USPSA club, take a class with a nationally known instructor, dry fire 15 minutes a day, report back with results. I bet one of the results will be you no longer care if your gun rattles when you shake it.

I know you think I’m being dramatic, but it’s really very noticeable— I’m talking about on a Walther though, my HKs have never had this issue. I only dislike it because it creates a feeling of sloppines, at the same time it’s a great gun so it doesn’t matter, you’re right.

The rest of your advice is spot on, thank you, I will heed it!

[plotinus]

All fantastic advice guys, thank you. I actually feel like I have a better perspective on what I need to accomplish my goals now.

[RevolverRob]

Okay - caveat, I didn’t get a chance to read all reaponses.

Let me put it this way:

If I had to start all over again in pistol land, I’d buy four or five VP9s. Two full size guns, an SK, and whenever it finally exist two longslides.

If I wanted optics, I’d get the optics ready version for one of my fullsize guns.

That would give you the ability to shoot IDPA and USPSA in SSP and Production and BUG in IDPA and Combat Optics in USPSA. If I was feeling my oats, I’d buy a .40 long slide and shoot Production Major.

——

That’s what I’d do to go from 0 to Competition/Defensive Ready. I’d not fuck with the internals AT ALL, only change the sights. Load, holster, draw, shoot.

——

But me? I like guns, buying them, shooting them, even looking at them. So I’m a goner for getting back to zero, short of, literally, losing all my guns (which could happen).

Eta: Rattling - my only concern is if the gun rattles when holstered. A gun that rattles in the holster is a concealment liability. Most people don’t rattle. They jangle, squeak, clop, and tromp but they don’t rattle.

PPS: 9 out of 10, the rattle is caused by topping the mag off and reinserting it on a loaded chamber. That compresses the mag spring just enough to let the baseplate or follower rattle. Very consistent problem in HK mags in my experience. Usually solved, but not +1 loading.

[Jim Watson]

I’m mainly concerned with practicing to enhance my proficiency, with hopes of one day being competition worthy.

I'll say it again; "competition worthy" means you have a reasonably suitable firearm, know what all the buttons and levers do, and can follow instructions as to safety and execution of the Course of Fire. You do not have to be a good shot or a gymnast (ref IPSC, USPSA, IDPA.)


I think you’re right. I already own some fairly nice pistols, perhaps I’d be better off investing in additional training. I shoot a lot (I live only five minutes from a great range and have a pass), and have taken some classes, so I’m probably the most proficient among the gun friends I do have, but I’ve been getting frustrated as there are certain abilities I’m having difficulty mastering— I was thinking perhaps new equipment would help (people tell me the extra barrel length assists in accuracy), but perhaps time and more training would be the best investment.

There may be some surprises waiting for you. Standards of proficiency are different in competition. The better shooters will show you that you have a lot to learn. The ordinary shooters may show you that you are not too bad.
You might be a natural talent and your prior experience a good basis, leading to one of those posts: "I shot my first match yesterday and was only in fourth place." Your rattling pistol might lead you to a variation of the Rabbit Hunter on the Skeet Field: "I beat all them old guys and their Krieghoffs with my Mossy." But don't bet on it.

[Gun Mutt]

Q: What shoud I.....?

A: Buy two 9mm Glocks that take the same magazines, a case of ammo and a spot in a class.

It's not always the right answer, but it's a damned rare time that it's a wrong answer.

[JonInWA]

The OP has a perfectly adaquate pistol already in his VP9 and/or P30. I would concentrate on one of them, quality instruction, practice (both dry- and live-fire) and suitable competition. Best, Jon

[Sal Picante]

Hi all,
I have the opportunity to buy a Sphinx SDP tomorrow for $800, which would fulfill the smaller to mid size gun, but I’m wondering if the increased cost really makes it that much better than a CZ P07 (or 9). General impressions about the Sphinx, especially vs the CZ?

Then as far as the bigger gun goes, it’s a toss-up between a PPQ 5”, the urban grey suppressor ready CZ 75 Omega, or a 1911 (I’ve shot many, but never owned one— I’d likely go either Kimber or Colt Government). I shoot very well with the PPQ 5”, my dad has one, but it also has a bit of the famed slide rattle, which triggers my ocd.

As far as purposes, I’m mainly concerned with practicing to enhance my proficiency, with hopes of one day being competition worthy. I shoot my HK VP9 and P30 both heavily, but I want something a bit different. I own a CZ 75b, but I feel like the omega trigger version would be more shootable, as I really enjoy the trigger on the P09.


I had a Sphinx SDP Compact and still have a Sphinx Sub-Compact.

They are very well made guns with a nice innovative design: the grip essentially can be unscrewed from the frame and essentially, the idea was that you could swap between alloy, steel, polymer grips. The Sear mechanism is much closed to a CZ 75 BD (decocker) design with a sear cage, etc. It is much clearer machined and better made than a CZ.

While I was moving away from the CZ, I was experimenting with them and had the idea of competing with the larger gun and carrying the smaller gun. They take CZ75 mags, largely, so that was a plus.
The accuracy out of the SDP was pretty awesome - with jacket 124's bullets and a known titegroup load (3.9 or 4.0?) I got some inch groups at 25 yards off of bags... (I was shooting a fair amount of bullseye then too...)

Whey did I sell them? I liked the design and the lack of aftermarket support didn't bother me too much, though, I just liked my Beretta's that much better...

If you ever want the sub compact, LMK. I'd let it go for stupid money and take a loss - I just don't shoot it (never shot it).

[David S.]

There is a strange phenomenon in which modestly skilled shooters, such as myself, often shoot other people’s guns better than our own. That phenomenon exists right up to the point where I replace my existing guns with other person’s gun. Then I suddenly shoot new gun just as poorly as I did the old gun.

I’m not saying that the case with you but it might be.

I’ll echo the sentiment to pick one that fits you ergonomically and dedicate a ton of time to it. You might consider the Ben Stoeger or Steve Anderson’s dry fire program.

Cheers,
David S.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I agree with all the sentiments of stick to one and get another class or two, hit a couple matches, etc.

Go to a few matches and see if any of the big fish are also coaches. A few hours of private instruction for a couple months can make really big gains for someone with decent fundamentals but needing to tune specific skills.

As to the OP question regarding the Sphinx v P07/9: I didn’t find the Sphinx better enough to warrant the price. And the CZs have a bit better aftermarket support with CGW and such.


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[Mas]

There is a strange phenomenon in which modestly skilled shooters, such as myself, often shoot other people’s guns better than our own. That phenomenon exists right up to the point where I replace my existing guns with other person’s gun. Then I suddenly shoot new gun just as poorly as I did the old gun.

I’m not saying that the case with you but it might be.

I’ll echo the sentiment to pick one that fits you ergonomically and dedicate a ton of time to it. You might consider the Ben Stoeger or Steve Anderson’s dry fire program.

Cheers,
David S.

David S makes an excellent point. Back in the day, Mike Plaxco -- the Rob Leatham of his time -- made a similar point. He suggested that when you had plateaued, changing either gun or stance tended to uplift performance. Probably because it made the shooter concentrate more on the fundamentals applied to the new weapon or technique. He cautioned us not to presume that the new method or hardware had improved us, but to remember that this experience was teaching us we had to focus more.

[HopetonBrown]

I know you think I’m being dramatic, but it’s really very noticeable— I’m talking about on a Walther though

I owned a PPQ M2, shot it in IDPAs SSP division with Dawson Charger sights and I couldn't tell you if the gun rattled when shaken or not.

What was I doing wrong?

[plotinus]

I owned a PPQ M2, shot it in IDPAs SSP division with Dawson Charger sights and I couldn't tell you if the gun rattled when shaken or not.

What was I doing wrong?

Was it the 5” version? It also doesn’t seem to be present on every model, but it is on several of them. I’ve handled some that did have it, and some that didn’t. I could make a little YouTube video to show it, maybe it’s an issue that is warranty eligible, but it’s definitely not normal.

Edit: The one I’ve noticed it on the worst is my dad’s and it’s a M1 5”, so a relatively uncommon model. Though you can find accounts of other people having it with all variants. What I’m describing technically doesn’t require purposeful shaking to see or hear the rattle.

[plotinus]

There is a strange phenomenon in which modestly skilled shooters, such as myself, often shoot other people’s guns better than our own. That phenomenon exists right up to the point where I replace my existing guns with other person’s gun. Then I suddenly shoot new gun just as poorly as I did the old gun.

I’m not saying that the case with you but it might be.

I’ll echo the sentiment to pick one that fits you ergonomically and dedicate a ton of time to it. You might consider the Ben Stoeger or Steve Anderson’s dry fire program.

Cheers,
David S.

I think you make a good point, if I got the other gun then I probably wouldn’t see any enhance performance. It’s possible that I just concentrate more and try harder when shooting my dad’s pistol.

I’ll look into those dry fire programs, thanks!

[plotinus]

So, i just found out the VP9 long slide conversion kit is now out. Instead of getting a new gun, I’m just going to buy one of those. I may get a second VP9 for carry and keep the existing one as a long slide— I’ll be content with those pistols as my primaries. The platform just works well for me, P30 feels similar, but the trigger isn’t my cup of tea as much.

I’m really glad I made this post, I’ve received some awesome advice. Plus waiting turned out to be the right move, now that I can buy my long slide VP9 with the longer barrel and fiber optic front sight.

[Gio]

As far as purposes, I’m mainly concerned with practicing to enhance my proficiency, with hopes of one day being competition worthy.

Lots of good advice as usual here, but I’ll tackle this point. As long as you are safe with your gun handling, you need to just show up and shoot a match, or maybe take an intro to uspsa type class and then shoot a match. It doesn’t matter how good you get shooting with your friends, you’re never going to show up to those first few matches and do well. Then first couple matches you go to will teach you more about what you are or aren’t good at than any amount of private practice will. I’d recommend trying to squad with an M or GM shooter those first few times as well. Just get out and try it and bring the vp9 you already have.

[olstyn]

As long as you are safe with your gun handling, you need to just show up and shoot a match, or maybe take an intro to uspsa type class and then shoot a match. It doesn’t matter how good you get shooting with your friends, you’re never going to show up to those first few matches and do well.

It's pretty funny how many of us wrote different variations of this same post. If we don't see a thread soon about the OP's first experience with USPSA and/or IDPA, it surely wasn't for lack of trying on our part. :)

[olstyn]

I don't think it's necessary to sell everything.

A fair point, depending on budget. I tend to view things through a somewhat cash-strapped lens, and currently only own two pistols (a compact and a full size of the same platform) and a .22 rifle, so the level of austerity I suggested may not be necessary for the OP.

[plotinus]

It's pretty funny how many of us wrote different variations of this same post. If we don't see a thread soon about the OP's first experience with USPSA and/or IDPA, it surely wasn't for lack of trying on our part. :)

I appreciate all the encouragement. I guess I just need to dive right in. I don’t quite feel ready, but I’m going to go for it regardless. I’m the past months I’ve spent countless hours at the range, and gone through thousands of rounds, so I suppose at some point I need to take that leap instead of staying in my comfort zone— although I also will be seeking additional instruction in the meantime.

[plotinus]

A fair point, depending on budget. I tend to view things through a somewhat cash-strapped lens, and currently only own two pistols (a compact and a full size of the same platform) and a .22 rifle, so the level of austerity I suggested may not be necessary for the OP.

I am somewhere in the middle. I have a fair budget to allocate to guns, but that’s because I’m unmarried, have a stable job, and am still in my 20’s. At the same time, having a bunch of guns sitting around collecting dust isn’t for me either.

I just sold my P30 for a fantastic price. I have a few other platforms I’m holding on to, but I’m abiding by the consensus and sticking with the VP9, since it works so well for me. Ammo, training, range time, customization of my current guns, etc. can all add up quickly, so it makes sense to focus on a few primary firearms for me. I feel better about this minimalistic approach, I’m just going to concern myself with two variants of the same platform (VP9L and VP9), and go from there.

When I started out I’d go to the range and alternate between three (or sometimes more if I was with friends) different handguns and I quickly realized I wasn’t really improving very much, so this is sort of the logical progression of that realization. I just needed to hear it from people who know what they’re talking about, my real world buddies have been trying to tell me that I’d probably do even better with a “better” gun, etc., but the VP9s will suit me just fine.

[pangloss]

A fair point, depending on budget. I tend to view things through a somewhat cash-strapped lens, and currently only own two pistols (a compact and a full size of the same platform) and a .22 rifle, so the level of austerity I suggested may not be necessary for the OP.

I'm not sure when it became "normal" to have a bunch of guns. When I was a kid, we had three functioning firearms in the house--two that were gifts to my dad when he was growing up and one he bought himself. I only remember one kid whose family was well up in the double digits number of guns. Anyway, I know plenty of people who would be better shooters if they followed your approach, regardless of budgets. An extreme example is a good friend who told me that "if you buy a gun, you have it forever, but if you buy ammo and then shoot it, you're left with nothing." He's an accumulator and not a shooter, and it's very difficult for me to get him to go to the range.

[Duelist]

I'm not sure when it became "normal" to have a bunch of guns. When I was a kid, we had three functioning firearms in the house--two that were gifts to my dad when he was growing up and one he bought himself. I only remember one kid whose family was well up in the double digits number of guns. Anyway, I know plenty of people who would be better shooters if they followed your approach, regardless of budgets. An extreme example is a good friend who told me that "if you buy a gun, you have it forever, but if you buy ammo and then shoot it, you're left with nothing." He's an accumulator and not a shooter, and it's very difficult for me to get him to go to the range.

Or you can Buy Ammo/Use Up/Repeat. And thereby get better at your shooting activity.

[pangloss]

Or you can Buy Ammo/Use Up/Repeat. And thereby get better at your shooting activity.

Amen! The other guy that was present for that conversation and I tried to convince him of that. Over the past couple of years I've started shooting significantly more, and now I notice things about how the gun handles now that I didn't notice when I was shooting ~1,000 rounds per year. Unsurprisingly, I also am a better shooter. I conveyed all of this, but I think it fell on unbelieving ears. Very sad.

[plotinus]

Update: Thanks to the stellar advice on this thread, I’ve made some changes to my approach to shooting. I now own only two pistols, a VP9L and VP9 standard. I sold the P30 and CZ I had, was able to pay for the HK long slide kit, buy a new VP9 frame on which to put the left over standard slide after converting, bought a few thousand rounds to bolster my stockpile, and enrolled in some more advanced classes. I also will be trying my hand at competition, and fully expect to get slaughtered.

[Cookie Monster]

Update: Thanks to the stellar advice on this thread, I’ve made some changes to my approach to shooting. I now own only two pistols, a VP9L and VP9 standard. I sold the P30 and CZ I had, was able to pay for the HK long slide kit, buy a new VP9 frame on which to put the left over standard slide after converting, bought a few thousand rounds to bolster my stockpile, and enrolled in some more advanced classes. I also will be trying my hand at competition, and fully expect to get slaughtered.

I totally got slaughtered when I competed. It was frustrating but it helps to realize its your first time doing something and a lot goes into that.

Get a bunch of time in and then you can figure out if you need to improve your holster/belt etc for what you do. Good luck and let us know your progress.

[RevolverRob]

Don’t forget shooting matches can be about winning against everyone or challenging yourself.

My point being - focusing on getting beat may be the wrong attitude. You want to focus on your performance, your benchmarks, your skills. If you can get into the frameset that you are only trying to beat yourself, you’ll learn more, faster.

[tyrusasmith]

Update: Thanks to the stellar advice on this thread, I’ve made some changes to my approach to shooting. I now own only two pistols, a VP9L and VP9 standard. I sold the P30 and CZ I had, was able to pay for the HK long slide kit, buy a new VP9 frame on which to put the left over standard slide after converting, bought a few thousand rounds to bolster my stockpile, and enrolled in some more advanced classes. I also will be trying my hand at competition, and fully expect to get slaughtered.

I'm in the same boat as you with wanting to get a new gun (mainly one with a slide length in the same category as those commonly found in the top rankings of competition). I know I have room to improve with my software before buying hardware, but I'm taking that into account with my decision. From what I learned listening to every single Firearms Nation Podcast, almost every American Warrior Society podcast, and attending Gabe White's Class; it seems that your biggest initial gains will come from having a detailed plan and goal for live fire range visits, and dry fire training. Consistent focused, goal oriented dry fire practice is the key. After that, a new gun might shoot a little flatter, be quicker in the head box at distance, or make you motivated to put in the effort. I think the effort is where you will see your gains. If the new gun makes you put in more effort, then it is a win-win.

Honestly that is why I want to bite the bullet and get a P226 X-Five. Sig doesn't make anything supposedly better, so I'll never feel like I need better hardware and I can just focus on the software.

[HopetonBrown]

and enrolled in some more advanced classes.

Cool. Which ones?

[LockedBreech]

I spent literally years having every gun under the sun, but the boring advice of this forum works. When I narrowed down to 9mm only, then striker triggers only, then finally the Smith M2.0 series guns in 9mm for all serious work, I got profoundly better. I forget what poster here gave me this advice, but I spend 80% of my range time on the M2.0s (my "core" guns) and the other 20% on a fun gun, sometimes a 1911, sometimes a Beretta 92. That way you get all the variety but you continue to hone your core strengths. I denied it for a long time, but unless you're a 99th-percentile shooter, you can only truly recognize your greatest skill level by sticking to one caliber and platform.

[plotinus]

Cool. Which ones?

I enrolled in a tactical shooting course ran by some local ex special forces guys, unfortunately it doesn’t start until April as it is at an outdoor shooting area and the weather here is rather nasty at the moment. The other is just an advanced pistol technique course at my local range, I don’t know if I’ll get much out of it, I was told it’d cover principles useful for aspiring competitive shooters; it’s not much of a risk at the price and I know some of the guys there are pretty good marksmen. I’ve been on the lookout for other classes, but there don’t seem to be a ton of other options in my area at the moment.

[RJ]

Update: Thanks to the stellar advice on this thread, I’ve made some changes to my approach to shooting. I now own only two pistols, a VP9L and VP9 standard. I sold the P30 and CZ I had, was able to pay for the HK long slide kit, buy a new VP9 frame on which to put the left over standard slide after converting, bought a few thousand rounds to bolster my stockpile, and enrolled in some more advanced classes. I also will be trying my hand at competition, and fully expect to get slaughtered.

Outstanding. I am very interested to hear how it goes. Good luck!!

[plotinus]

I spent literally years having every gun under the sun, but the boring advice of this forum works. When I narrowed down to 9mm only, then striker triggers only, then finally the Smith M2.0 series guns in 9mm for all serious work, I got profoundly better. I forget what poster here gave me this advice, but I spend 80% of my range time on the M2.0s (my "core" guns) and the other 20% on a fun gun, sometimes a 1911, sometimes a Beretta 92. That way you get all the variety but you continue to hone your core strengths. I denied it for a long time, but unless you're a 99th-percentile shooter, you can only truly recognize your greatest skill level by sticking to one caliber and platform.

I was starting to go down that route of constantly collecting and cycling through several different types of guns. I’ve only been shooting and dry firing with my chosen platform for the past several days, and I feel like I’m already benefiting from the consistency (maybe that’s just psychological). I like the idea of spending a bit of time on a fun gun— I like shooting 1911 so I will probably go that route too eventually.

[plotinus]

Another update: thanks to the advice I received, I’m in the process of joining a local USPSA club. In other news, I did deviate from the advice a little bit. I got a pretty good tax return and thus picked up an HK P30L V1 and CZ Shadow 2. So I now have four pistols (along with some long guns I’m retaining if I ever decide to do 3 gun).

I’m primarily training with the VP9L and standard still, but I used one of the other poster’s advice of shooting a “fun gun” for a more minor portion of range time, and I have to say I think my Shadow 2 has a good chance of becoming my primary shooter. I conceal carry my standard VP9 though and that’s unlikely to change. I know everyone said I should minimize my inventory, and I intend to only focus on one platform, I just happened to get some great deals on the aforementioned new acquisitions. I also kind of figured that the Shadow 2 and P30L are both guns that retain their value fairly well, so if I did decide to part with them down the line, I likely wouldn’t take too much of a loss.

The one thing I don’t like, and I’m a newbie still to all this, is that I can’t run the Shadow 2 cocked and locked in production competition, it has to be manually decocked. I’m sure everyone else knows this, but I was slightly disappointed because I hate switching from da to sa, for this reason the VP9 will likely remain my platform of choice, though I have one more minor gripe about that... not enough VP9L editions exist to qualify for certain competition criteria, so until HK decides to crank them out in greater numbers I likely will not be able to use it in competition.

Just an update for everyone who gave me stellar advice. I know I deviated a bit by obtaining new guns, but my training regime is heavily influenced by your advice: 3 days live fire at the range primarily focused on the same platform, four days dry fire. We will see how much the additional training I’ve sought out helps in the long run.

[olstyn]

The one thing I don’t like, and I’m a newbie still to all this, is that I can’t run the Shadow 2 cocked and locked in production competition, it has to be manually decocked. I’m sure everyone else knows this, but I was slightly disappointed because I hate switching from da to sa

If you hate the Shadow 2's DA/SA transition, I shudder to think about how you'd feel about shooting a more normal DA/SA gun. The Shadow 2 had a buttery smooth, very light DA pull, and the SA is like a mouse click. What more do you want? I mean, I personally don't like the idea of that particular gun because I dislike the manual decocking dance, but there is literal nothing to complain about in regard to the trigger.

[GlockenSpiel]

I also kind of figured that the Shadow 2 and P30L are both guns that retain their value fairly well, so if I did decide to part with them down the line, I likely wouldn’t take too much of a loss.

Both are widely-available current production pistols that you bought new, which isn't the formula for retaining resale value. You clearly have the income to play around with new guns and more power to you! But I know I've played the it'll-retain-value games to justify fun purchases before, and it's best to just be realistic about why and where you're spending your discretionary funds.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[plotinus]

Both are widely-available current production pistols that you bought new, which isn't the formula for retaining resale value. You clearly have the income to play around with new guns and more power to you! But I know I've played the it'll-retain-value games to justify fun purchases before, and it's best to just be realistic about why and where you're spending your discretionary funds.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

There may be a bit of unnecessary internal justification occurring, this is true.

[Jim Watson]

The one thing I don’t like, and I’m a newbie still to all this, is that I can’t run the Shadow 2 cocked and locked in production competition, it has to be manually decocked. I’m sure everyone else knows this, but I was slightly disappointed because I hate switching from da to sa, for this reason the VP9 will likely remain my platform of choice, though I have one more minor gripe about that... not enough VP9L editions exist to qualify for certain competition criteria, so until HK decides to crank them out in greater numbers I likely will not be able to use it in competition.

So check the box for Limited Minor, shoot cocked and locked and fill the magazine up, too.
Production seems to have shifted from an entry level Division to a specialists' game.
Beginners are being encouraged to shoot Limited Minor so as to not have to plan reloads so often.

[plotinus]

If you hate the Shadow 2's DA/SA transition, I shudder to think about how you'd feel about shooting a more normal DA/SA gun. The Shadow 2 had a buttery smooth, very light DA pull, and the SA is like a mouse click. What more do you want? I mean, I personally don't like the idea of that particular gun because I dislike the manual decocking dance, but there is literal nothing to complain about in regard to the trigger.


Well, I actually don’t have any problem with its DA persay, it’s the general transition between DA to SA in any gun that throws me off slightly. It’s just a skill set I need to hone. I’ve had a safety on most hammer guns I’ve owned, so I’ve carried or used them condition 1. The manual decocking on a live round also makes me slightly uncomfortable, but other than that the pistol is a dream and both things are deficiencies on my part, not the gun.

[plotinus]

So check the box for Limited Minor, shoot cocked and locked and fill the magazine up, too.
Production seems to have shifted from an entry level Division to a specialists' game.
Beginners are being encouraged to shoot Limited Minor so as to not have to plan reloads so often.

Good advice, perhaps that is what I will do. I’m still very much a newbie, and I’m really just looking to have fun anyways, so what you suggest could be a good option.

[David S.]

The ideal is probably “just pick one and shoot the piss out of it,” but more than a few of us have tinkered around for a bit. There’s a certain appeal to the process of finding that perfect gun with the right features. So rock on with your bad self. Enjoy the process. Lots of us are doing it. I’m on my fifth or sixth “perfect” gun over the last 20 years. 3rd in the 4 years. Ergonomics and shifting priorities.

I also agree with the general advice that dedicating yourself to a single gun is probably going to be more conducive to improvement. That’s what I intend to do starting now, I mean......now.

[1986s4]

Pretty sure I've read that HK is coming out with a long slide version of the VP9. Since you have mags and other support kit that would be the way, IMO. Want something different? Get a quality AR 15 if you don't have one already. Get some training then jump into 2 gun matches. The pistol games have rather vigorous rules and enforcement [nothing wrong with that really] the 2 gun matches I've shot are a little loser [but not on safety].
Once you are competing your needs will clarify.
For IDPA I focus on the revolver, thus I have several.
For two gun I have a couple of AR's . The pistol is less important but I have a Beretta M9 with 18 round mags and Colt Government in .38 super [10 round mags] that I use.

[willie]

Let Glock jockeys send a couple to Bar Sto for master fitting of one of their barrels. While its there, pay them for a trigger job and custom sights. You'll get back a Glock that shoots into 2 inches at 50 yards. Carry a stock 19 or 26 and be happy for the rest of your life. This way is the easier and cheaper way to wherever. Few will follow the path. Wandering is more fun.