Ammo: What to buy and what to avoid for shooting ranges?

[Mystery]

I'm thinking of joining a range as a member sooner or later and having own bullets would be economical.
That's one question on itself. Do most of you guys join shooting ranges or just go somewhere else?
Few local ranges are offering monthly membership with very low initiation fee.

I read a lot of ranges ban steel and lead etc... bullets.
I checked some 9mm boxes at Walmart today and price ranges from $17 and up for 100 rounds.

Is there a general guideline on what ammo is widely acceptable and what's not so I can stock them up when prices are good?
I'm talking about 9mm for now.

Thanks

[willie]

Range policies vary with the range. Practice ammo from any one of several makers is good. Check online. Some ranges may require that you buy theirs. Some may not allow hand loads. Visit each to see with whom you have good chemistry.

[RJ]

These days I generally order by 1,000 round case from www.sgammo.com.

Typically, I buy reliable brass cased 115 gr or 124 gr by Federal, Speer, S&B etc.

For SD ammo I use Federal HST 147, also from SG. I add a box to my order.

Walmart is a good place to get started with a box or two and I’ve bought some Winchester White Box there as well. It works also.


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[RJ]

Sorry - Too early in the morning. Forgot to answer the question. Moar coffee.

I have joined several local ranges over the years. I’m not currently a member.

The first one I joined was a very fancy large range with a big supply of rental guns. I spent almost a year shooting most of the common choices they had.

Ranges vary a good bit. Might be an idea to try a well-rated option near you first and see how it goes.

Check with them on ammo limitations but mine are generally ok with good quality brass cased ammo from a recognized brand.


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[Alpha Sierra]

Is there a general guideline on what ammo is widely acceptable and what's not so I can stock them up when prices are good?
I'm talking about 9mm for now.
General guidelines for ammo that will most likely be accepted at most shooting ranges where you pay by the hour to shoot:

Full metal jacket (FMJ) bullets
Brass cartridge cases
Factory-made


Any ammo that meets all three criteria is very likely to be acceptable wherever you go.

Outdoor ranges and gun clubs are much more tolerant and I have never been to or been a member of any outdoor gun club where cast lead bullets and/or handloaded ammunition was not acceptable.

[SkippySanchez]

You'd be hard pressed to find steel core handgun bullets. Most indoor ranges prohibit steel core or steel jacketed rifle bullets and test them with a magnet, but handgun rounds don't impact their bullet stops like rifle rounds anyway.

Some ranges don't want you using steel case ammo, but that's because they would have to sort through all (your) brass before they sell it. It has nothing to do with safety. Some won't even let you pick up your OWN brass.


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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

[Cookie Monster]

Rich has the down low. Buy it by the case online. Ammoman is my go to but for no good reason.

[Jim Watson]

As said, check with the individual range, policies vary.
Some require factory loads, some require factory loads bought there, some require cheap bulk reloads bought there (I would avoid that one unless it were all there was or offered some substantial advantage to offset junk ammo.)

The two commercial ranges I am a "member" of do not care; I shoot the same reloads that I make up for IDPA and USPSA. I can even recover my brass from my lane.
I picked some Tula boxes out of the trash at the indoor range to use for reloads. That is interesting, it is not only steel cased but the bullet is described "Jacket Material: Zinc (Will attract a magnet)" which means it is really galvanized steel. The modern rubber mulch bullet trap apparently doesn't care, it is "rifle rated" too.

Shop around. Rural King had a sale and rebate deal going on that was the cheapest Federal I have seen in a long time. I buy .22s from Target Sports; they have competitive prices on centerfires, too.

[Darth_Uno]

I buy from Luckygunner, just because I'm in IL and they've already got my FOID card on file (that's an IL-specific requirement). Their prices are as good as any. Any brass-cased FMJ should be fine, as far as functioning in your gun and being allowed at the range.

Some ranges say no steel cased ammo because (for rifle rounds) that's an indicator it may have steel in the bullet as well, and damages their backstop. While that's not really an issue with handguns, it's just easier for them to say "no steel cased ammo" period.

[OlongJohnson]

My issues with one particular pistol and its extraction woes have led me to inspect a good number of cases. That, and what I have seen when opening boxes in stores, leads me to not buy Winchester anymore. It's garbage.

I don't buy brass-jacketed pistol rounds. If you look up material properties, even 10 percent zinc brass (about what it takes to get it to be yellow rather than red) is about twice as hard and strong as plain copper (very rough number, but directionally useful for discussion), so it will unavoidably wear your barrel faster. Whether that means the barrel is only good for 100k rounds rather than 200k rounds may be relevant to a discussion of whether it matters, but the lowest prices I've ever seen on big-name 9mm have always been with red copper jackets anyway. Same with steel case. I never see it as cheap as the brass case gets when the big factories decide to drop the price and move some metal.

[TGS]

Paging Nephrology.

He might have some range and training suggestions for your area.

[Joe in PNG]

Regarding range memberships, be sure to try before you buy. If you find a range with helpful staff, well kept facilities, and you just like it, join there.
If the staff is unhelpful or patronizing, if the place is a mess, and you don't like it, skip it. Even if it is cheap.

Regarding buying ammo, I find that chasing the cheapest isn't really worth it. I've settled on buying 1000 round cases of Speer Lawman 147 9mm (usually from Luckygunner). I like it. It's the same size as my carry loads, the flat bullet nose pokes round, visible holes in the targets, and it works. Plus, it has a fully enclosed bullet, so lead isn't a problem.

Good luck!

[Nephrology]

Paging Nephrology.

He might have some range and training suggestions for your area.

Denver metro?

Depends a lot on what you want. The indoor ranges are somewhat pricey and/or have very limited membership availability. I belong to the Colorado Rifle Club, which is east of Denver by a good ~45min-hr on I70. It's very rural and access gets dicey in the winter/rain, but it's basically an series of action pistol bays that you can use to your liking (safely, of course).

For more supervised ranges with rental/purchase options, I'd look at BluCore in Lakewood. I haven't used their range but I bought a few guns there, fairly priced. Had generally good interactions with the staff, knowledgable (all carry glocks or similar). Good place for a new shooter - they offer training that is well priced and probably sufficient for a vast majority of gun owners.

[Mystery]

Denver metro?
...
For more supervised ranges with rental/purchase options, I'd look at BluCore in Lakewood. I haven't used their range but I bought a few guns there, fairly priced. Had generally good interactions with the staff, knowledgable (all carry glocks or similar). Good place for a new shooter - they offer training that is well priced and probably sufficient for a vast majority of gun owners.
Thanks
Yes, Blucore is the one that I mentioned above with low initiation fee.
Others either have very high initiation fee or have to pay for the whole year up front.

Bristlecone is also an option but seems pricey.

[Nephrology]

Thanks
Yes, Blucore is the one that I mentioned above with low initiation fee.
Others either have very high initiation fee or have to pay for the whole year up front.

Bristlecone is also an option but seems pricey.

There are other options but I don't have direct experience with them unfortunately. I'd been thinking about finding an indoor range for the winter but have been increasingly preoccupied with work so it's fallen by the wayside.

[Mystery]

I attended a pistol shooting beginner class and they only used is 22 LR.
The instructor's conceal carry was M&P 9c but he said he also has Glock 19 and switches them depending upon mood.

One interesting thing he said was to practice with same brand's 22 lr and carry 9mm.
For example, practice with M&P 22lr and get M&P 9c or compact for carry so the controls, feel etc... are same.
That way it doesn't cost a lot to practice and as it's same/similar gun, it adds that to EDC 9mm.
Checking price, $200 gets 5000 22lr and only 1000 9mm rounds.
Definitely cheaper but not sure if practicing with 22lr adds value when carrying 9mm even if it's similar gun from same manufacturer.

[Wake27]

It definitely adds value. The only difference is recoil control.


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[Mystery]

It definitely adds value. The only difference is recoil control.


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I see.
Looks like 22 ammo is much cheaper than 9mm but guns are not that cheap.
Price of 22 M&P is pretty close to 9mm so no savings on the gun.

[Duelist]

I see.
Looks like 22 ammo is much cheaper than 9mm but guns are not that cheap.
Price of 22 M&P is pretty close to 9mm so no savings on the gun.

At ~$180-$200/1000, 5k rounds of 9mm are $900-$1000. And you already know how much 5k .22 costs, so that initial gun cost is eaten by ammo cost savings. I wouldn’t be without one. Or three.

[RJ]

I *almost* bought an M&Pc 22 simply because of the input I received here on the value of a .22 for learning trigger control at lower cost than 9mm, even though it is not like what I normally shoot (Glocks).

Still thinking about it, actually. If Glock made a 19 in .22 caliber I'd probably already have one. When I looked into the 22 conversion kits for G19s it seemed like they were almost the price of an actual .22 so I decided not to go that route (I'm sure it was not exactly but that was my impression as I recall; could be wrong.)

The other difficulty in the M&P design is the hinged trigger they use. My first handgun was an original M&P full size 1.0 model in 9mm. I concluded after a couple years shooting both the rental at the range as well as my own that I purchased (this was several thousand rounds) that I didn't, really, like the way it felt. So an M&P 22 compact while I am sure is a great gun if you have an M&P full size, at least "for me" doesn't make sense as the trigger on it probably would drive me nuts. I mean they sell a ton of handguns including the Shield at what? 4M of them? So it seems fine for a lot of folks. It just didn't work for me.

But at any rate, yes I'd like to get a .22 at some point.

[Wake27]

I *almost* bought an M&Pc 22 simply because of the input I received here on the value of a .22 for learning trigger control at lower cost than 9mm, even though it is not like what I normally shoot (Glocks).

Still thinking about it, actually. If Glock made a 19 in .22 caliber I'd probably already have one. When I looked into the 22 conversion kits for G19s it seemed like they were almost the price of an actual .22 so I decided not to go that route (I'm sure it was not exactly but that was my impression as I recall; could be wrong.)

The other difficulty in the M&P design is the hinged trigger they use. My first handgun was an original M&P full size 1.0 model in 9mm. I concluded after a couple years shooting both the rental at the range as well as my own that I purchased (this was several thousand rounds) that I didn't, really, like the way it felt. So an M&P 22 compact while I am sure is a great gun if you have an M&P full size, at least "for me" doesn't make sense as the trigger on it probably would drive me nuts. I mean they sell a ton of handguns including the Shield at what? 4M of them? So it seems fine for a lot of folks. It just didn't work for me.

But at any rate, yes I'd like to get a .22 at some point.

I love my AA kit for the 19. I think it was about $300 on eBay and well worth it, especially since I get to keep my aftermarket trigger, magwell, grip mods, etc.

[SkippySanchez]

FWIW, you might look for a 22 that is 'close enough' to your carry gun that it will still do the job without being the same brand. I agree, that's ideal, but maybe not possible since not all 9mm gun makers make the identical 22 versions. However, there are many aftermarket conversions out there which would be my choice #2.

I carry a H&K VP9 but found the Walther P22 'close enough.' Similar grip, paddle style mag release, similar trigger (in single fire), etc. No, it's not the same size and it's not striker fired. And obviously the recoil is like a BB gun.

When I shoot, mostly on private property, I'll start and end with a few drills with my VP9 with other drills sandwiched between with the P22.

Recoil is the main difference between the two guns.


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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

[RJ]

I love my AA kit for the 19. I think it was about $300 on eBay and well worth it, especially since I get to keep my aftermarket trigger, magwell, grip mods, etc.

Thanks, I will look into that. Now that I have a G26.5 for carry, and my G19.5 is more setup for USPSA all the time, swapping out the parts to make the G19 a .22 for a range session might make more sense. Plus, no need for another serialized item/4473 if I buy one.

About how long does it take to convert over to a .22? How about back?

Would you say that it is just as accurate in .22 mode as with the regular 9mm parts installed?

And one I'll need to look into, I assume they make these kits for Gen 5's by this point.

ETA: It seems they do: http://www.cmcgov.com/ADV-ARMS-CONV-KIT-FOR-LE19-23-G5-BAG.html

[Inspector71]

Here is another vote to invest in an “understudy” .22 gun to your usual carry gun. Get is as close as you can to weight, same holster, controls, etc... For years I have had a four inch, six shot model 617 that is a dead ringer for my four inch 686.

[Mystery]

Recoil obviously would be different.
For some reason, I didn't even feel recoil from the M&P 22 lr.
It was almost non existent.
I'm not a big guy but have pretty big hands so that may have played a role.

I didn't pay attention before on the calibers but looks like I only shot 22 cal till now.
I'll try 9mm next and see if there's noticeable recoil.

[Duelist]

Recoil obviously would be different.
For some reason, I didn't even feel recoil from the M&P 22 lr.
It was almost non existent.
I'm not a big guy but have pretty big hands so that may have played a role.

I didn't pay attention before on the calibers but looks like I only shot 22 cal till now.
I'll try 9mm next and see if there's noticeable recoil.

That’s the one thing a .22 can’t help you with: recoil control. Everything else can be exactly the same till the actual firing of the gun. Marksmanship, trigger control, etc, are all the same. A .22 does have some recoil: the gun moves, the muzzle shifts. It can be minimized to the point of nearly not there without a lot of effort, where a 9mm or .40 or .45 will take a lot more effort to minimize and control recoil, even though in normal guns none of them are objectionable hand manglers for most people.

[Salamander]

Every range is unique, and choosing the right one can be important. I belong to two here. One is members only, everyone is screened by at least two board members before being accepted, RSOs get keys but we are required to take and pass an 8-hour class to to so; end result is a very safe range with mostly very capable members. This one is still reasonably priced, although some like this in major markets can have waiting lists or be expensive to join. My other one is open to the public but again safety is paramount; for this one there's a smaller annual fee and then we pay a little each visit ($2 for members, $5 for non-members). We have few ammo restrictions at either, basically nothing really big (no .50) and no tracers, which are illegal here and a wildfire waiting to happen in dry season.

There are two other local ranges which I won't go near, one they try to do a good job but for some reason it gets really crowded and attracts every wannabe with a cheap AR and the one day I filled in for a RSO buddy there it was the most stressful range day of my life. Poor layout too. It's an accident waiting to happen. There's also an indoor range with no supervision which makes me nervous. And I stay far away from the riverbar where the bottom feeders shoot, having already been muzzle swept there plus having knocked down targets set up in unsafe places. And it disgusts me when people shoot up a TV or a piece of furniture and then leave it and drive away. Anyone that careless and sloppy shouldn't be around guns, what else are they lazy about?

Side note, one of my clients is California National Guard and I just returned from a visit to a soon to be upgraded combat pistol range that I'm doing the permits for. Our engineers designed in a very nice drainage system which captures suspended lead before it leaves the site. Having read the USEPA guidance for shooting ranges, that's the future for at least the larger ranges.

And on ammo... personally, I stay with reasonably good quality practice ammo and for calibers where that can be expensive I reload.

[Wake27]

Thanks, I will look into that. Now that I have a G26.5 for carry, and my G19.5 is more setup for USPSA all the time, swapping out the parts to make the G19 a .22 for a range session might make more sense. Plus, no need for another serialized item/4473 if I buy one.

About how long does it take to convert over to a .22? How about back?

Would you say that it is just as accurate in .22 mode as with the regular 9mm parts installed?

And one I'll need to look into, I assume they make these kits for Gen 5's by this point.

ETA: It seems they do: http://www.cmcgov.com/ADV-ARMS-CONV-KIT-FOR-LE19-23-G5-BAG.html

I’m not sure about accuracy. Honestly I tend to just do mag dumps every time I use it because it’s fun... I’ve been meaning to really test that out but just haven’t gotten to it. Installation is as simples as swapping the slide over so it couldn’t be easier. That being said, I’m not sure about the Gen 5s. Their website doesn’t mention them and I have no idea if the company is even still in business because the only place I remember being able to find a kit was eBay.


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[RJ]

I’m not sure about accuracy. Honestly I tend to just do mag dumps every time I use it because it’s fun... I’ve been meaning to really test that out but just haven’t gotten to it. Installation is as simples as swapping the slide over so it couldn’t be easier. That being said, I’m not sure about the Gen 5s. Their website doesn’t mention them and I have no idea if the company is even still in business because the only place I remember being able to find a kit was eBay.


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Thanks. The Gen 5 version seems out of stock at e.g. Glockmeister. Will keep looking for one; I think a .22 conversion has lots to offer me for cheap trigger control practice that won’t beat up my shoulder if I shoot lotsa live fire in a session.


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[Doc_Glock]

.

About how long does it take to convert over to a .22? How about back?

Would you say that it is just as accurate in .22 mode as with the regular 9mm parts installed?


It takes as long as removing the slide and installing a different slide.

Can’t comment on accuracy.

Mine have not run as reliably as I would like. They need to be very lubricated and pretty clean, with ammo they like. But they are crazy fun and easy for working on trigger control. The .22 can make you look like a hero.

[scw2]

If you can buy in bulk you can get much better prices normally than big box stores or local gun stores. Check out the ammo deals thread here for an idea on what stores are referenced for deals in the past and what the cost is, or ammo seek has a decent search function as well.

I think a case can be made for the 22, but don’t overlook dry fire for developing skill, and it costs nothing monetarily.

[RJ]

It takes as long as removing the slide and installing a different slide.

Can’t comment on accuracy.

Mine have not run as reliably as I would like. They need to be very lubricated and pretty clean, with ammo they like. But they are crazy fun and easy for working on trigger control. The .22 can make you look like a hero.

Thanks E. I got tentative permission from SWMBO for an expenditure, provided I locate a Gen 5 version of one of these conversion kits.

Which will be interesting, as shooting a .22 will be a new chapter in my handgun task book of experiences, which currently includes only 9mm and a few hundred rounds of .38 special wadcutter. :)

[RJ]

Thanks E. I got tentative permission from SWMBO for an expenditure, provided I locate a Gen 5 version of one of these conversion kits.

Which will be interesting, as shooting a .22 will be a new chapter in my handgun task book of experiences, which currently includes only 9mm and a few hundred rounds of .38 special wadcutter. :)

Well.

For whatever reason there do not seem to be any Gen 5 Glock 19 kits for sale anywhere.

I’ll keep an eye out.

It was however suggested that Glock ‘might’ bring out a .22 soon, as in possibly at an upcoming event. So since I don’t have a burning need for a .22, really, I’ll keep my options open at this time.


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[the Schwartz]

It was however suggested that Glock ‘might’ bring out a .22 soon, as in possibly at an upcoming event. So since I don’t have a burning need for a .22, really, I’ll keep my options open at this time.


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Yeah, you must've missed that announcement, too. Glock says that they'll be releasing their .22-caliber pistol on February 30th, 2020. ;)

[RJ]

Yeah, you must've missed that announcement, too. Glock says that they'll be releasing their .22-caliber pistol on February 30th, 2020. ;)

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[Mystery]

I went to all of them and wanted to summarize what I felt.
All these have retail area and offer training classes.
I've listed few things in addition to help myself decide.

1. Centennial Gun Club:
Good: Well maintained and huge facility, lots of lanes (28), lots of members (over 5500), dedicated area for sales and gunsmith etc...
Offers IDPA and other competition matches such as bowling pin.

Bad: Very expensive initiation fee ($347).
No discounted annual rate.
Only 25 yard ranges.
Not too close to my place.

2. BluCore:
Good: Pretty decent club. Only one indoor around here with 100 yards indoor range so that's great if you are into rifles.
Low (currently waived) initiation fees and free gun rentals (current promotion) for members. :ok:
Offers membership for training as well.
Range is in the well ventilated basement.
Pretty close to my place.

Bad: Not a lot of lanes (5 100 yard lanes and 12 pistol lanes) so gets busy in the weekend.
No discounted annual rate.
Looks little old, dim and crowded compared to other two.

3. Bristlecone:
Good: Well maintained and clean facility, member lounge, dedicated area for sales and gunsmith etc...
Can watch the range from the shop.
Offers different plans, monthly with initiation fee, annually, weekdays only etc...
Offers USPSA classes and other competition matches such as bowling pin.
Pretty close to my place.

Bad: Initiation fee is pretty high ($225)
Not a lot of lanes (14).
Only 25 yard ranges.

Decisions... decisions... decisions... :D

[Dave J]

Adding to the previous discussion, I used an Advantage Arms G19 conversion quite a bit during the "ammo panic" a few years back, as well as an M&P22, and feel that they can fill a valid niche. IMHO, they are most useful if you are limited by ammo budget, but have plenty of range time available, or better yet, can shoot on your own property for free. OTOH, if you're severely limited on range time, you might be better off with lots of dry practice, and then stick to full caliber for what live fire you do get.

I think Todd G referred to the .22's as "ballistic dry fire", i.e. you don't really get anything out of it that you couldn't get via dry practice, but the bullet holes help keep you honest, vs. being overly optimistic about what your sight picture was when you got the click.

I never saw a point in using a .22 for anything other than single-shot drills. I'd always switch to full caliber for multi-shot drills. (At least, if actually focused on training. If plinking for fun, feel free to blast away, and I highly recommend reactive targets.)

My M&P22 ran well with almost any ammo. My AA G19 kit was a finicky eater, and often malfunctioned. I didn't really see this as a problem, since I was only doing single shot drills, but it would make range sessions go much slower. Again, are you limited by time, or by ammo?

The 22LR conversion kits also run dirtier than centerfire ammo, IME. I'd be a little hesitant to use one on my carry gun unless I had time for maintenance afterwards. Obviously, no such concern using one on a dedicated training gun.

As far as accuracy, I found both the M&P22 and AA conversion kit to be precise enough to hold a 10 ring on a B-8 at 25, even with bulk ammo. I did see POI shifts with different brands of ammo, so I'd suggest finding a brand the gun likes and sticking with it, so you're not chasing sight adjustments all the time.

I'm currently more limited for time than for ammo, so don't use the .22's much, except for taking new shooters to the range.

[Street Survival]

From SGAmmo 124grain Lawman. Very accurate and clean.