I want this. Just because - 9mm Gatling

[Glenn E. Meyer]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/02/13/9mm-gatling-gun-from-tippmann-armory/

I take it that this isn't an NFA item but it is a precursor and looks cool. Best for open carry and towing it around the mall.

[JclInAtx]

Thats a bargain compared to Colt's gatling, and would be far cheaper to feed than 45-70....

[RevolverRob]

YES.

Also - They have a damn .357 Magnum Rolling Block - https://tippmannarmory.com/rolling-block-357-magnum/ - which I need like another hole in the head, but fuck it. I'm getting one.

And also, I'm getting one of these Gatling guns - Because I'm completing a PhD and the price is too good to pass up. I wonder if they'll work with the Glock drum mags? We're gonna find out. :eek:

[revchuck38]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/02/13/9mm-gatling-gun-from-tippmann-armory/

I take it that this isn't an NRA item but it is a precursor and looks cool. Best for open carry and towing it around the mall.

Oh, hell yeah! :)

[OlongJohnson]

I'm already imagining a wheel/tire upgrade and a custom cast bronze frame with inlaid heroic scenes from the revolution. And bald eagles and flags and stuff. This is one gun I would actually like to see engraved.

Also, they really should make a version in .45 Automatic, just to keep DocGKR happy.

[Grey]

But does it take glock mags? :p

Cool find, totally missed that in the SHOT coverage I checked out. I had no idea Tippman was in the firearms business, I only know them from Paintball.

[RevolverRob]

I'm already imagining a wheel/tire upgrade and a custom cast bronze frame with inlaid heroic scenes from the revolution. And bald eagles and flags and stuff. This is one gun I would actually like to see engraved.

Also, they really should make a version in .45 Automatic, just to keep DocGKR happy.

I, myself, am thinking about building a pintle mount to mount in the back of a truck. Old school - meets modern - technical. :rolleyes::eek:

I've been planning to buy an FJ40 at some point in the near future, mount it right in the back and open the back hatch. :eek:

[awp_101]

I've been planning to buy an FJ40 at some point in the near future, mount it right in the back and open the back hatch. :eek:

You can't get 'em all, Josie.

That's a fact.

How come you're doing this, then?

Because I ain't got nothin' better to do.

[revchuck38]

I, myself, am thinking about building a pintle mount to mount in the back of a truck. Old school - meets modern - technical. :rolleyes::eek:

I've been planning to buy an FJ40 at some point in the near future, mount it right in the back and open the back hatch. :eek:

You need a ring mount for it. ;)

[RevolverRob]

You need a ring mount for it. ;)

Can just take the hard top off (or remove the soft-top, whatever, you get the idea. :eek:

In which case a swinging pedestal mount would be ideal....

[Drang]

But does it take glock mags? :p
The article says it does.

Also, last time I checked, Uncle Sam regards a a cranked firearm as NOT a full-auto.

These things change of course.:(

[StraitR]

That thing is sweet. Sadly, crank triggers have effectively been made illegal in Florida due to vague terminology in the recent bump fire stock ban here.

[RevolverRob]

That thing is sweet. Sadly, crank triggers have effectively been made illegal due to vague terminology in the recent bump fire stock ban.

I don't think so - https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks

Critical component:


The final rule clarifies that the definition of “machinegun” in the Gun Control Act (GCA) and National Firearms Act (NFA) includes bump-stock-type devices, i.e., devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.

A gatling gun is not a semi-automatic firearm, because it has multiple barrels and multiple chambers, each turn of the crank indexes a new barrel/chamber and fires the round inside of the barrel as it is indexed. Each turn of the crank rotates the barrel assembly, cocks, and releases the hammer. It's basically just a big magazine fed double action revolver.

[StraitR]

I don't think so - https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks

Critical component:



A gatling gun is not a semi-automatic firearm, because it has multiple barrels and multiple chambers, each turn of the crank indexes a new barrel/chamber and fires the round inside of the barrel as it is indexed. Each turn of the crank rotates the barrel assembly, cocks, and releases the hammer. It's basically just a big magazine fed double action revolver.

I was vague. Too much editing of my original thought. I was referring to the slippery slope found in the latest round of Florida legislation. Updated my previous post for clarity.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2018/790.222


790.222 Bump-fire stocks prohibited.—A person may not import into this state or transfer, distribute, sell, keep for sale, offer for sale, possess, or give to another person a bump-fire stock. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 (https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2018/775.082), s. 775.083 (https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2018/775.083), or s. 775.084 (https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2018/775.084). As used in this section, the term “bump-fire stock” means a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire or which is used to increase the rate of fire to a faster rate than is possible for a person to fire such semiautomatic firearm unassisted by a kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device.

Emphasis mine

[RevolverRob]

I was vague. Too much editing of my original thought. I was referring to the slippery slope found in the latest round of Florida legislation.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2018/790.222



Emphasis mine








But again, says "Semiautomatic weapon". So someone would have to classify a gatling gun as a semi-automatic weapon, which would go against the standard conventions of firearm definitions.

[StraitR]

But again, says "Semiautomatic weapon". So someone would have to classify a gatling gun as a semi-automatic weapon, which would go against the standard conventions of firearm definitions.

Well, it's either a "semi-automatic" or a "machine gun". I'm pretty sure crank triggers are currently classified as the former, are they not? It's one shot per pull of the trigger, regardless of the crank's mechanical advantage. The 10/22 Gatling kits (https://www.tacticalinc.com/catalog/product/id-571?products_id=571) have been popular here, so unless there is something drastically different about this Tippmann, it would also fall under "semi-automatic". Otherwise, why make and market a non-transferable toy?

ETA: In which case, a crank trigger is a "kit" and/or "conversion" and/or "device" that increases the rate of fire of a semi-automatic.

[Drang]

Well, it's either a "semi-automatic" or a "machine gun". ....

Or a bolt action, or a lever action, or...

[RevolverRob]

Well, it's either a "semi-automatic" or a "machine gun". I'm pretty sure crank triggers are currently classified as the former, are they not? It's one shot per pull of the trigger, regardless of the crank's mechanical advantage. The 10/22 Gatling kits (https://www.tacticalinc.com/catalog/product/id-571?products_id=571) have been popular here, so unless there is something drastically different about this Tippmann, it would also fall under "semi-automatic". Otherwise, why make and market a non-transferable toy?

ETA: In which case, a crank trigger is a "kit" and/or "conversion" and/or "device" that increases the rate of fire of a semi-automatic.

There is something drastically different. The 10/22 "gatling" kits are just kits to stick two semi-auto weapons together. The trick here is the reloading.

The NFA considers a fully automatic weapon to be: Any weapon which shoots automatically, more than 1 shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, is a machine gun as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), the National Firearms Act (NFA).

A gatling gun (proper) requires the manual turning of the crank to fire, eject, and subsequently reload each chamber in each barrel. A partial turn of the crank will only fire a round, and do nothing else. A full crank rotation is required to complete the process. In other words, a gatling gun is not capable of firing more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger (sear). It is only capable of firing a single round, period, by single function of the trigger, and requires manual operation to reload and fire again.

In the 10/22/AR15/etc case. There the semi-automatic actions use recoil and/or gas to extract and reload the chamber of the barrel. They get away with crank firing, because the crank only trips the trigger once (and may well be illegal now under the Florida law you cited). They could still fire both barrels simultaneously, because the ATF allows for volley fire (firing of more than 1 bullet, by a single trigger press, as long as each bullet is fired from its own barrel).

[Drang]

...because volley-fire is legal (i.e., legal to have 2 or more shots fired with a single trigger pull, as long as each bullet leaves its own barrel). Volley-fire isn't relevant to proper gatling guns, ....

So is anybody making a repro mittraileuse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse)...?

[RevolverRob]

So is anybody making a repro mittraileuse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse)...?

This? https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2019/1/10/new-for-2019-standard-mfg-s333-volleyfire/

I dunno, but someone SHOULD. Because it'd be awesome.

Or maybe this:

A 40mm "Beehive" round, which is effectively a volley-fire .22 from a 40mm launcher. :D

35196

I also wish you hadn't pointed this out, because now I know this (https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/61/137/henri-pieper-belgian-7chamber-volley-gun) exists and I could have lived my whole life without the wanton lust I have for that now....

[StraitR]

Or a bolt action, or a lever action, or...

Sure, but none of which pertain to the firearm being discussed.


There is something drastically different. The 10/22 "gatling" kits are just kits to stick two semi-auto weapons together. The trick here is the reloading.

The NFA considers a fully automatic weapon to be: Any weapon which shoots automatically, more than 1 shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, is a machine gun as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), the National Firearms Act (NFA).

A gatling gun (proper) requires the manual turning of the crank to fire, eject, and subsequently reload each chamber in each barrel. A partial turn of the crank will only fire a round, and do nothing else. A full crank rotation is required to complete the process. In other words, a gatling gun is not capable of firing more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger (sear). It is only capable of firing a single round, period, by single function of the trigger, and requires manual operation to reload and fire again.

In the 10/22/AR15/etc case. There the semi-automatic actions use recoil and/or gas to extract and reload the chamber of the barrel. They get away with crank firing, because the crank only trips the trigger once (and may well be illegal now under the Florida law you cited). They could still fire both barrels simultaneously, because the ATF allows for volley fire (firing of more than 1 bullet, by a single trigger press, as long as each bullet is fired from its own barrel).

Below is the ATF clarification letter, as it relates to the differentiation of a Gatling Gun and a M-134 or GAU "Minigun", but it better illustrates my point..

https://www.atf.gov/file/83561/download


ATF and its predecessor agency, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), have historically held that the original, crank-operated Gatling Gun, and replicas thereof, are not automatic firearms or machineguns as defined. See Rev. Rul. 55-528, 1955-2 C.B. 482. The original Gatling Gun is a rapid-firing, hand-operated weapon. The rate of fire is regulated by the rapidity of the hand-cranking movement, manually controlled by the operator. It is not a "machine gun" as that term is defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b} because it is not a weapon that fires automatically.


The Minigun is not a Gatling Gun. It was not produced under the 1862 - 1893 patents of the original Gatling Gun. While using a basic design concept of the Gatling Gun, the Minigun does not incorporate any of Gatling's original components and its feed mechanisms are entirely different. Critically, the Minigun shoots more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, as prescribed by 26 U.S.C. 5845(b}. See United States v. Fleischli, 305 F.3d 643, 655-656 (7th Cir. 2002). See also Staples v. United States, 511 U.S. 600,603 (1994) (automatic refers to a weapon that "once its trigger is depressed, the weapon will automatically continue to fire until its trigger is released or the ammunition is exhausted"); GEORGE C. NONTE, JR., FIREARMS ENCYCLOPEDIA 13 (Harper & Rowe 1973) (the term "automatic" is defined to include "any firearm in which a single pull and continuous pressure upon the trigger (or other firing device) will produce rapid discharge of successive shots so long as ammunition remains in the magazine or feed device - in other words, a machinegun"}:WEBSTER'S II NEW RIVERSIDE-UNIVERSITY DICTIONARY (1988) (defining automatically as "acting or operating in a manner essentially independent of external influence or control"}; JOHN QUICK, PH.D., DICTIONARY OF WEAPONS AND MILITARY TERMS 40 (McGraw-Hill 1973) (defining automatic fire as "continuous fire from an automatic gun, lasting until pressure on the trigger is released").

[RevolverRob]

Sure, but none of which pertain to the firearm being discussed.



Below is the ATF clarification letter, as it relates to the differentiation of a Gatling Gun and a M-134 or GAU "Minigun", but it better illustrates my point..

https://www.atf.gov/file/83561/download

Right. It would appear to me that the Tippman gun is effectively a miniaturized version of the 1892 Gatling design.

Interestingly, I have been informed if one puts a motor (gas or electric) to operate the crank of an original crank-type Gatling, it becomes a machinegun. Because the motor (not a person) operates the gun and therefore rate of fire is limited by motor speed and gearing and not by the human operator. And thus is controlled by a switch. UNLESS some constructs it such that the switch fires only a single round when pressed and does not continuously operate the gun when held.

[StraitR]

Right. It would appear to me that the Tippman gun is effectively a miniaturized version of the 1892 Gatling design.

Interestingly, I have been informed if one puts a motor (gas or electric) to operate the crank of an original crank-type Gatling, it becomes a machinegun. Because the motor (not a person) operates the gun and therefore rate of fire is limited by motor speed and gearing and not by the human operator. And thus is controlled by a switch. UNLESS some constructs it such that the switch fires only a single round when pressed and does not continuously operate the gun when held.

Exactly. Holding down the button (or flipping the switch) that drives the motor, which then fires more than one shot, would make it a machine gun. While it's often described as the first "machine gun", it's not defined as such under current NFA laws. They can also be had, in one configuration or another, on Gunbroker pretty regularly. They do bring typical Class III prices though.

And because Gatling Guns are just cool, here is a video that slowly peels back the parts until the full cycle of operation is seen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myg_ZBIkmK8

[MistWolf]

I'm already imagining a wheel/tire upgrade and a custom cast bronze frame with inlaid heroic scenes from the revolution. And bald eagles and flags and stuff. This is one gun I would actually like to see engraved.

Because nothing says "One Upmanship" like having an engraved Gatling gun with spinner hubcaps as a BBQ gun.

[mtnbkr]

Also - They have a damn .357 Magnum Rolling Block - https://tippmannarmory.com/rolling-block-357-magnum/ - which I need like another hole in the head, but fuck it. I'm getting one.

I have a hankering to get that and have it rechambered to 357max. Shame it has a 1:20 twist. With a 1:16 or 1:14, it would be great with 200gr cast bullets like the RCBS 35-200.

ETA:
They also have the same gun in 44mag and 45-70, as well as bare actions rated up to 52k psi. Think of the possibilities!
https://tippmannarmory.com/shop-all/

Chris

[OlongJohnson]

Because nothing says "One Upmanship" like having an engraved Gatling gun with spinner hubcaps as a BBQ gun.

Spinner hubcaps are for prohibited persons.

The right wheels make a vehicle.

[MistWolf]

Spinner hubcaps are for prohibited persons.

HA! Good point. Damned auto correct! I meant to say "Because nothing says 'One Upmanship' like having an engraved Gatling gun with ivory hubcaps as a BBQ gun."

(Yep. It was the auto correct- and that foul odor came from the dog. Time to change his dog food. Again!)

[SeriousStudent]

I'm going to snag one of these with my next bonus after they come out. Screw the 401(K), I'm going to enjoy myself now, dammit.

I can't think of anything that says "Screw you, I'm from Murica!" better than this.

I have no idea how the hell I'm going to get this in one of the safes, however. But my granddaughter will LOVE it.

[SeriousStudent]

Oh, and I'm going to have somebody build wooden wheels, a wooden gun carriage, and a proper caisson for it, to haul all the ammo and mags.

Because it deserves it. :cool:

Can't wait to bring it to my next training class and execute a failure to stop drill, either.

"Two rounds to the body, and 31 rounds to the head on my command...."

[OlongJohnson]

The stock tire appears to be sourced from Harbor Freight:

https://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-pneumatic-tire-30900.html


I'm thinking something like this:

35204

https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-wwii-m10-ammo-trailer/421196

35205

http://usautoindustryworldwartwo.com/americanbantam.htm

....

After waaaay too much of a Saturday morning spent geeking out on wheels and tires (not the first time, not the last), this is probably the easy answer to get the best look:

Ribbing on the wheel, WWII-style tread.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kenda-Tire-2-ply-plastic-wheel-w-5-8-bearings-2-3-8-hub-depth-t2-50-4-pl/362193139547

This is a little bit of a muscle car look, but also good tread.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-2-8-1-2-Tire-Wheel-2-50-4-For-Cart-Generator-Grill-Wagon-Pressure-Washer/252222340461

Or a little more of a tall-skinny look.
https://www.amazon.com/Small-Tires-Wheels-Inch-Wheel/dp/B010C13DGE


Yes, I once could have been called a "wheel and tire professional," but I much prefer "tire nerd."

[Corey]

This gives me a case of the wants. And the estimated MSRP is a surprise too. It is actually affordable, I just have to save up some cash.

[Joe45]

YES.

Also - They have a damn .357 Magnum Rolling Block - https://tippmannarmory.com/rolling-block-357-magnum/ - which I need like another hole in the head, but fuck it. I'm getting one.

And also, I'm getting one of these Gatling guns - Because I'm completing a PhD and the price is too good to pass up. I wonder if they'll work with the Glock drum mags? We're gonna find out. :eek:I'll bring the ammo and cigars when you get it set up. :)

[peterb]

How does the manufacturer regulate all the barrels to the same point of impact?

[Hambo]

How does the manufacturer regulate all the barrels to the same point of impact?

I doubt that they do.

[UNM1136]

I doubt that they do.

Look up "machine gun" and "beaten zone"...

ETA: sorry Hambo, for peterb...

pat

[RevolverRob]

Well, gatlings by default fire the barrel at 6 o'clock. As long as the barrels are the same length and thickness, then the tricky part is getting the front circular support properly installed. Even if it pushes the barrels inward a bit, as long as all the barrels are pushed inward the same amount, accuracy should be similar across all barrels. If each barrel is level, they should all be pretty close to point of aim.

That said, this ain't going to produce MOA groups at 100 yards. If it can keep all the rounds from a Glock drum mag on a standard USPSA target at 25 yards, I'll be tickled as hell.

PS: From a technical point of view, you can think of it like this. We regulate over-unders and side-by-sides, because each round is fired from a different barrel, but also from a different plane (horizontal or vertical) from the sights. The Gatling does not do this. It would be like firing the lower barrel of an over-under, then swiveling the barrels and firing the other barrel.

[MistWolf]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/02/13/9mm-gatling-gun-from-tippmann-armory/

I take it that this isn't an NFA item but it is a precursor and looks cool. Best for open carry and towing it around the mall.

Might as well go all in and get the newly introduced BRN-134D MINIGUN 7.62X51MM NATO SEMI-AUTO
https://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/brn-134d-minigun-7-62x51mm-nato-semi-auto-prod127287.aspx

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Isn't that a NFA item and being new, not available to civilians?

[MistWolf]

It was advertised as semi-auto. It was also an April's Fool joke and Brownell's has since took down the link :(

[awp_101]

Necroposting because this:


https://youtu.be/Www9108KXaI

Feat of the Week: 9mm Gatling Gun (https://www.themccluskeyarmscompany.com/feat-of-the-week-gunsmithing-blog/feat-of-the-week-9mm-gatling-gun)