Shooting without emotion

[GJM]

For many years, I have been primarily focused on developing my technical shooting skills. Lately, I have been giving substantial thought to how to extract the highest percentage of my technical shooting ability, consistently and on demand.

This has been a circuitous process, but what seemed abundantly clear, is that trying harder almost always results in worse performance. I have struggled with what “not trying hard” means, and for now have settled on “shooting without emotion,” meaning shooting with no attachment to any outcome or external influence. Of course this is easier said than done. Steel Challenge seems like a great venue to practice this because it is so intense.

What are other folks doing on the mental side to on demand, extract the highest percentage of whatever your technical shooting level is?

[ASH556]

Lately as I'm working my skillset back up I'm focusing on doing the work at hand, on a very micro level. As you've posted before, some thing like, "shoot the shot you're shooting, not the shot you already took." Certainly as we build skill certain things become automatic like draws and reloads. Sights and trigger still seem to be the area to make up the most ground. See what you need to see, do what you need to do...but right now. Microfocus on exactly what you need to do right now and let absolutely everything else go. That's how I've seen my greatest technical performance gains lately (4.79 clean FAST, 99-3X 25 freestyle B8).

[Alpha Sierra]

For many years, I have been primarily focused on developing my technical shooting skills. Lately, I have been giving substantial thought to how to extract the highest percentage of my technical shooting ability, consistently and on demand.

This has been a circuitous process, but what seemed abundantly clear, is that trying harder almost always results in worse performance. I have struggled with what “not trying hard” means, and for now have settled on “shooting without emotion,” meaning shooting with no attachment to any outcome or external influence. Of course this is easier said than done. Steel Challenge seems like a great venue to practice this because it is so intense.

What are other folks doing on the mental side to on demand, extract the highest percentage of whatever your technical shooting level is?

Focusing on the process, not the outcome (or shooting without emotion as you put it) is a HUGE component of what makes a successful clay shooter (one of the things I enjoy). Because there is no visual connection between the gun and the target when shooting a shotgun at a flying object, focusing on the process is the only way to succeed consistently in clay shooting.

One of the keys to being in the moment and focusing on the process instead of the outcome is to manage your ego (as in emotional state). John Shima (one of skeet's greats) is sort of a Zen philosopher on this topic and I enjoy reading his articles on the subject in the NSCA/NSSA member's magazine. I need to pick up his books to dig deeper into his ideas.

I'm a firm believer in that the mental aspect of performance transcends sports and disciplines within a sport.

[kzielu]

I am not a great shooter by any means but beside trying to be a better one I also race cars.
Meditation, meditation and once again meditation. It's been around for centuries and it's what not trying too hard is a part of.
There is a pretty decent book by George Mumford - Mindful Atlete - Secrets to pure performance - it touches on all of this.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Good topic, GJM. I have a few thoughts about this.

1. Lanny Bassham has this all figured out. Get his book and follow the instructions. https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Mind-3rd-Ed/dp/1934324264

2. Steve Anderson's podcast focuses primarily on the mental game, and is a good source for the Lanny Bassham approach. I hate Van Halen, and have my mental game pretty much squared away right now so I don't listen to his podcast anymore.

3. We all want to be better than we are. The challenge is trusting and accepting our current level of skill when we are competing. The way to get better is practice. Hard work will yield results, but we have to be patient. For me, there's maybe a 3 to 6 month lag between working on something, and seeing results in competition.

4. I've done some of my best shooting under pressure, so for me emotion isn't necessarily a bad thing. But we have to set it aside on "make ready."

[Peally]

Trying hard and shooting worse is a classic issue. My solution is to not give a fuck about the end goal and just shoot as "professionally" as I can when I'm on the line. I worry about the scores after the match is done.

The scores will reflect your skill regardless of how bad you want ____. If you didn't put in the time months earlier you're not gonna beat Les Pepperoni's Portillo's fueled ass at a match. Accepting the fact that matches simply reflect previous training is a hard one for anyone to initially swallow, and thus you get guys going HNNNNNNNNG and attempting to shoot above their physical capabilities to comical effect.

[GJM]

I am not looking to shoot better than my current ability in a match, and I don’t believe in rising to the occasion as a match strategy.

My goal is to be able to shoot as high a percentage as possible of my current ability in a match setting, and I believe the key to that is mental, which right now is to remove emotion from my match shooting.

You may laugh, but I even follow that one attempt/on demand approach in my PF posts, where I consider editing the equivalent of a mulligan.

[Clusterfrack]

I am not looking to shoot better than my current ability in a match, and I don’t believe in rising to the occasion as a match strategy.

My goal is to be able to shoot as high a percentage as possible of my current ability in a match setting, and I believe the key to that is mental, which right now is to remove emotion from my match shooting.

You may laugh, but I even follow that one attempt/on demand approach in my PF posts, where I consider editing the equivalent of a mulligan.

You're right. I'm laughing. :D

[Darth_Uno]

Trying hard and shooting worse is a classic issue.

Absolutely. I have an essential tremor, all the time. It’s worse when I concentrate. At the average range, I’m good. I’m not competing against anyone.

Confidence is key. I took Suarez’ TASI course with Randy Harris and drilled a hostage target between the eyes (the hostage, not the bad guy). Randy commented and I said “he looked shady.” Got a laugh but the fact is I missed, no way to sugarcoat it. We also did a drill where I nailed a steel target about 15 times in a row, because I was 100% sure I could hit it.

[1911Nut]

My biggest battle with my shooting has been to detach my emotions and focus exclusively on the process instead of the outcome.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Lanny Bassham strongly advocates this approach.

An somewhere, several years ago, I read a post on the internet authored by Brian Enos that said something along the order of "attend and participate in a shooting match and during that match, do your very best to SIMPLY NOT CARE about how you perform . . . . . you might be surprised"

[YVK]

Confusing name of a thread, G. Shooting without emotion is probably a terrible idea. There's a classic century long science on relationship between arousal/anxiety and performance, it says "just right is the best". "Pushing hard" is clearly more than just right, coming and just expecting shit to happen because we all here have put some work is probably not enough. There's some level of emotional investment that is required with landing a plane or a stent correctly 100% of the time, and I think that is what we need to emulate in the sport too.

[Clobbersaurus]

GJM is describing Match Mode - as Steve Anderson coined it.

I’ve said it before, but a strong (and still developing) mental game is responsible for much of the meager success I’ve had in practical shooting. Executed properly, it’s an incredibly less anxious way to shoot. I was going to say relaxing, but shooting matches is NOT relaxing. For me it’s an incredibly taxing day mentally, as following my process doesn’t really allow any time to rest mentally until the match is over.

For me, being in control mentally means controlling the process and exciting with a detached confidence in my current ability.

It’s not easy, which is why most people don’t do it.

[Clusterfrack]

Shoot fearlessly and learn from your mistakes. But fearless doesn't mean out of control.

On the other hand, always having to be in control leads to fear.

When you have the balance, you're in the Zone (https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/235925-technique-in-visualization/?do=findComment&comment=2650527), as Brian Enos calls it. Also, see Enos' post on the Set (https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/231932-buzzer-dumb/?do=findComment&comment=2689419).

There was a Ben Stoeger podcast a whileago where Ben said something like: "Don't shoot like a pussy, but don't shoot like an asshole either. Shoot like a dick. You know, that guy who finishes first on a tough stage all calm and confident, and you're thinking "what a dick"."

[BN]

I've had some of my best matches when I shot "with no expectations".

A couple of examples: My first ever match win was a local USPSA match. I had been out late the night before and didn't really care how I shot. I was just having fun shooting.

The year I finished 8th overall at the IDPA Nationals, I had been having some sort of heart palpitations and thought I was going to have to have heart surgery or something. I was thinking about who I was going to give my slot to. Turns out I had a potassium deficiency and I needed to drink orange juice every day. I was just glad to be alive and shooting. I was surprised at my results.

If I go into a match "expecting" any certain kind of results, my performance suffers.

It's kind of interesting watching someone after they have had their first major success. They always crash at the next match. Expectations. :)

[HCM]

Confusing name of a thread, G. Shooting without emotion is probably a terrible idea. There's a classic century long science on relationship between arousal/anxiety and performance, it says "just right is the best". "Pushing hard" is clearly more than just right, coming and just expecting shit to happen because we all here have put some work is probably not enough. There's some level of emotional investment that is required with landing a plane or a stent correctly 100% of the time, and I think that is what we need to emulate in the sport too.

I agree with YVK. Steve Fisher has been talking about this for a while on the tactical timmy side. He refers to it as "emotional control" which I think better describes what is going on in both venues.



.

[GJM]

The trigger discussions often get confusing because different people understand words differently, and I suspect that will also be a factor here.

I frequently tell friends to shoot under emotional control in matches, and by that I mean for them to see their sights and feel their trigger, rather than go cyclic with predictably bad results. I am discussing something different, and that has nothing to do with control. It is getting my mind free of outcomes and expectations, and allowing me to shoot like when I practice match mode, where I am solely in the present and not in either the past or future.

[awp_101]

There was a Ben Stoeger podcast a whileago where Ben said something like: "Don't shoot like a pussy, but don't shoot like an asshole either. Shoot like a dick. You know, that guy who finishes first on a tough stage all calm and confident, and you're thinking "what a dick"."
And that's why I listen to his podcast even though I'm not a competitive shooter. It's fun to listen to someone who's a bigger jackass than I am.:D

[Duelist]

The trigger discussions often get confusing because different people understand words differently, and I suspect that will also be a factor here.

I frequently tell friends to shoot under emotional control in matches, and by that I mean for them to see their sights and feel their trigger, rather than go cyclic with predictably bad results. I am discussing something different, and that has nothing to do with control. It is getting my mind free of outcomes and expectations, and allowing me to shoot like when I practice match mode, where I am solely in the present and not in either the past or future.

Ah. Mindfulness.

[Alpha Sierra]

Confusing name of a thread, G. Shooting without emotion is probably a terrible idea.
I think you're equating emotion with stress/excitement when he uses the word emotion to define a mental state in which the conscious part of the brain tries to control the outcome of the performance. Instead, the conscious part of the brain should be given something to do that is a small part of the correct shooting technique (in clay shooting I force myself to bore a hole in the target with my eyes) to keep it occupied while the subconscious is freed to take care of everything else.

[Wondering Beard]

To paraphrase Tuco:"When you gotta shoot, shoot. Don't emote"

;-)

[farscott]

I struggle with this as I do my best shooting when I do not "care" about the outcome. When I start to be concerned with the results or I "need" a certain score, my performance suffers. This is for Bullseye, which is, for me, a very frustrating and fulfilling challenge.

I shoot at my best on demand when I can ignore everything but the process itself. The outside world seems to melt away, I am focused on the sights, my breathing seems to not be a concern, and my sight wobble is regular and smooth. Fatigue is not an issue and the shot breaks cleanly and without strain. The closest thing I have seen in media to that state is when Kevin Costner's pitcher "Clears the mechanism" in For Love of the Game. Been doing it for more than thirty years and on some days I still cannot get there. On those days, my performance is sub-par, and I have to struggle to be consistent.

[rangerover]

As an athlete, one of the hardest things I ever had to learn was that the basket was the same size and height in an NCAA tournament game as it is at the local YMCA. I think those that learn it best perform the best under pressure. Another example, the cup is the same size in the US Open as it is at the local muni course. Point I’m making is that our minds perception of the event can have a large impact on the outcome. That is how I interpret GJM’s comments.

[okie john]

For many years, I have been primarily focused on developing my technical shooting skills. Lately, I have been giving substantial thought to how to extract the highest percentage of my technical shooting ability, consistently and on demand.

This has been a circuitous process, but what seemed abundantly clear, is that trying harder almost always results in worse performance. I have struggled with what “not trying hard” means, and for now have settled on “shooting without emotion,” meaning shooting with no attachment to any outcome or external influence. Of course this is easier said than done. Steel Challenge seems like a great venue to practice this because it is so intense.

What are other folks doing on the mental side to on demand, extract the highest percentage of whatever your technical shooting level is?

Brian Enos writes about emptying the mind in Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals (https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Shooting-Fundamentals-Brian-Enos/dp/0962692506)

A few years ago, I decided to focus on The Test. I shot it several hundred reps over a few months, and got to the point where I was regularly getting 100 with several Xs. One day I shot it five or six times in a row with very short intervals between runs, holding my breath on each run like I usually do. At some point on the next run my body said, "Breathe, dumbass." I actually stopped thinking about the shooting and made myself inhale and exhale while I was shooting. I shot that run clean.

I'm not sure how I got there other than shooting so many reps of The Test that I just stopped caring about something, but that run was flipping like a switch in my head. That's the mental state I try to reach when I shoot now. I also find that relaxing physically helps me relax mentally, so I'll stretch my arms and back between strings, step away from the line after shooting several strings, etc.

I think that I was reading the Enos book for the first time when this happened.


Okie John

[BN]

I have a buddy I shoot with. He and I are pretty matched as far as shooting skill. When he finishes a stage he can recite every move he made while shooting the stage. I don't remember what I did. I guess I let my sub conscience mind do the shooting. I regularly beat him. ;)

I had to make a video of myself reloading my revolver to see what I was doing. I just thought reload and it was happening. Sub conscience mind.

[Alpha Sierra]

I have a buddy I shoot with. He and I are pretty matched as far as shooting skill. When he finishes a stage he can recite every move he made while shooting the stage. I don't remember what I did. I guess I let my sub conscience mind do the shooting. I regularly beat him. ;)

I had to make a video of myself reloading my revolver to see what I was doing. I just thought reload and it was happening. Sub conscience mind.

Same thing happens to me in sporting clays. I'll come off a station either running it or doing really well and I'll get asked how much lead I used. I can't answer that question. If I was aware of how much lead I put on the targets I would have missed most of them. The guys who keep asking about how much lead to use or how much I used are the ones scoring in the 70s at the end.

[Dismas316]

GJM is describing Match Mode - as Steve Anderson coined it.

For me, being in control mentally means controlling the process and exciting with a detached confidence in my current ability.


To add the Steve Anderson’s match mode, (which has been a huge improvement in my matches), he had a recent podcast that talks about “Emotionless Excellence” during match mode. Starts around the 17 min mark.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/that-shooting-show/id578816989?mt=2&i=1000428804652

[GJM]

If your conscious mind is focusing on the fundamentals of shooting, you probably need to work more on those. This is just like landing a taildragger or hovering a helicopter, where you need to be able to control the aircraft at a subconscious level, to leave your conscious mind free to deal with external factors.

So the questions is, if you are performing the shooting at a subconscious level, what are you doing with your conscious mind. It is easy to say what the conscious mind should not be doing — things like worrying about a previous bad stage, comparing your hit factor to a buddy that just shot the stage, or wondering what this classifier will do to your average. Not sure I know what I was thinking about.

I just got home from a match, where I actively told myself over and over, to only focus on the present. My wife asked me what I thought, and I told her I really couldn’t say. The reason was I had no real recollection of what my stages were, how I did compared to others, and what I felt. She was a little miffed, because she thought “I must have some feeling,” but I actually didn’t.

[Alpha Sierra]

if you are performing the shooting at a subconscious level, what are you doing with your conscious mind.
OK, what are you doing with your conscious mind?

I'm not a very good handgun shooter. But I'm pretty damned good with a shotgun.

When I step into the cage I rehearse in my mind what my hold points, visual pickup points, and kill points are going to be. I visualize crushing the pair. I close the gun; I tell myself to focus on the target, then assume the ready position with my eyes in relaxed focus at the visual pickup point and my gun at the hold point for target 1.

I call pull, and as soon as the eyes detect the target I place 100% of my conscious mind to bring a laser-sharp focus on the targets. From there on everything happens in autopilot and I watch the targets get smoked without any deliberate effort.

That's when I know I went to the zone.

[JHC]

I don't know much about the science or art of this. But . . . A few years back I had two occasions to hit the range seething mad. Just under a full boil. Holy shit I wish I could bottle it. I'm seldom angry so the difference was stark. It definitely fit the template for shooting unconsciously. It was good.

[okie john]

I don't know much about the science or art of this. But . . . A few years back I had two occasions to hit the range seething mad. Just under a full boil. Holy shit I wish I could bottle it. I'm seldom angry so the difference was stark. It definitely fit the template for shooting unconsciously. It was good.

I shot like a machine rest the day my son left for college.


Okie John

[Trooper224]

As with many things emotion is hooked to ego. If one really wants to master any technical skill, ego really needs to be left at home. This is particularly hard to do with hyper competitive types, as ego usually plays a large part in their drive to win. With anything in life being self aware is key. Always striving to be better, faster, etc. can turn into a counterproductive exercise because, we all reach a point where we plateau. A point where we will never be better than that.

Throughout most of my youth I was a competitive fencer, but I've never been a highly competitive person. In fact, on many levels I find the whole exercise to be just a bit ridiculous. Trophies, medals, who's got the bigger dick, it's always seemed inane to me. As such, I was always able to leave my ego off the strip. I fenced because I loved it, not because I had a drive to beat other fencers. Consequently, my focus was always on mastering the technical skills, or the art for its own sake. Victory was simply an outgrowth of this approach, enough that I was an Olympic hopeful at my peak.

When I took up shooting I carried this attitude into that arena. I only competed because I loved shooting and that's where all the shooters were on Saturday afternoon. Time and life's commitments prevented me from competing on a large national level, but I always did very well in whatever the discipline was. Like those fencers from long ago, I've competed against a lot of talented shooters. With most of them, I knew it would be close but in the end they'd cave. We'd get right down to the line and their ego would take hold and their emotions would engender self defeat. At some point they'd start thinking about losing as much as winning and that would get them every time.

In the end, it's really about a combination of knowing ones own limits and striving for perfection in the fundamentals.

[ArgentFix]

At some point on the next run my body said, "Breathe, dumbass." I actually stopped thinking about the shooting and made myself inhale and exhale while I was shooting.


Getting "in the zone" seems largely out of my control, and I only recognize it afterwards, but it always involves breathing more naturally without forcing it.


so I'll stretch my arms and back between strings, step away from the line after shooting several strings, etc


I do this a LOT. Being limited to an indoor range I feel silly, shaking out my hands, kicking my feet, etc. But it does help me recover from a flyer that shouldn't have happened.

[JHC]

OK, what are you doing with your conscious .

I think that would have to be problem solving. In a fight or in a match there should be a lot think think about. Hence the limitations of exclusively shooting static drills by rote.

[JHC]

As with many things emotion is hooked to ego. If one really wants to master any technical skill, ego really needs to be left at home. This is particularly hard to do with hyper competitive types, as ego usually plays a large part in their drive to win. With anything in life being self aware is key. Always striving to be better, faster, etc. can turn into a counterproductive exercise because, we all reach a point where we plateau. A point where we will never be better than that.

Throughout most of my youth I was a competitive fencer, but I've never been a highly competitive person. In fact, on many levels I find the whole exercise to be just a bit ridiculous. Trophies, medals, who's got the bigger dick, it's always seemed inane to me. As such, I was always able to leave my ego off the strip. I fenced because I loved it, not because I had a drive to beat other fencers. Consequently, my focus was always on mastering the technical skills, or the art for its own sake. Victory was simply an outgrowth of this approach, enough that I was an Olympic hopeful at my peak.

When I took up shooting I carried this attitude into that arena. I only competed because I loved shooting and that's where all the shooters were on Saturday afternoon. Time and life's commitments prevented me from competing on a large national level, but I always did very well in whatever the discipline was. Like those fencers from long ago, I've competed against a lot of talented shooters. With most of them, I knew it would be close but in the end they'd cave. We'd get right down to the line and their ego would take hold and their emotions would engender self defeat. At some point they'd start thinking about losing as much as winning and that would get them every time.

In the end, it's really about a combination of knowing ones own limits and striving for perfection in the fundamentals.

If you haven't read this I'll bet you'd find this fascinating. https://www.amazon.com/StrengthsFinder-2-0-Tom-Rath/dp/159562015X/ref=sr_1_2?crid=11S75ADNPF5ZG&keywords=know+your+strengths+book&qid=1549794083&s=gateway&sprefix=Know+your+stre%2Caps%2C482&sr=8-2

IMO Gallup really is onto something. I've been lucky enough to get a deep dive into this system from past work but even the shortcut approach outlined here drives home the point.

A person with a strong "signature theme" of Competitor sees all of that completely differently than I do. Competitors often don't "get" those who aren't similarly wired. And visa versa. The company that was all in on this approach were I was exposed to it would not hire someone for a sales job that didn't score high as a Competitor.

OTOH, Competitor theme was not sought for operations roles in which I worked.

[GJM]

I think this is likely to be very individual.

I love the process of shooting. I don’t care very much about beating other people. What motivates me is getting better at shooting.

[Alpha Sierra]

I think that would have to be problem solving. In a fight or in a match there should be a lot think think about. Hence the limitations of exclusively shooting static drills by rote.

In a fight, I'd agree. In a match, you can make a plan ahead of time.

[03RN]

In a fight, I'd agree. In a match, you can make a plan ahead of time.

Which is great untill you miss a shot and your reload plan gets flubbed.

[Leroy]

Which is great untill you miss a shot and your reload plan gets flubbed.

Not really, you just go back to the plan, every shooter makes mistakes on most stages, even the best. Most mistakes are only observed by the shooter.

[03RN]

Mu-shim. No-mind is something that's helped me whether martial arts, powerlifting, or shooting. Definitely helps at work too. Trying to convince psychotic patients of anything I really have to stay calm, speak clearly, be thoughtful, and then when needed avoid punches, spit, bites, and then draw up narcotics.

[JHC]

In a fight, I'd agree. In a match, you can make a plan ahead of time.

Indeed but the stage plan you make that morning is probably not all the way to "unconscious". Now in my case, in a match, regardless of my paltry planning, I'm full on ad hoc problem solving, not the least of which is all the surprise slide lock reloads that pop up. :D

[JHC]

I think this is likely to be very individual.

I love the process of shooting. I don’t care very much about beating other people. What motivates me is getting better at shooting.

I would love to read your "signature themes" report. I think I could predict a few of them. ;)

[Alpha Sierra]

Which is great untill you miss a shot and your reload plan gets flubbed.

Yes to a point.

Another analogy from clay shooting: in some of the sporting clays disciplines (FITASC and Super Sporting) you get single targets before you get the pairs. You have full use of the gun (two shots) to engage singles. You make a plan to where you're going to pick up (visually) and then intercept and kill that target with the first shot, which your subconscious mind should then execute.

What you can't plan for is what to do if you miss it with the first shot. Those who miss and then kill typically are the shooters who let the subconscious handle the task of re-calculating and executing a second intercept to break the target. Those who have to think about what to do if they miss the first shot almost never are successful with the second and are probably better off saving a cartridge.

[JodyH]

Take up golf for a while, to be good it requires the same emotion control as shooting but dragged out over a much longer period of time.
In a typical USPSA stage you have to be in control for 30 seconds or so max.
On a typical golf hole you have around 15 minutes that you need to be "in the moment".