P30 Ammo

[hoghunter]

Team,
Hope ya'll don't mind a few newbie comments/questions to clog your board. I took the advice here and purchased a M&P9 which has worked marvelous for me. But HK keeps calling. I have a wandering eye when it comes to guns and I have been seriously considering the P30. Was going to get the USP9 but the P30 continues to redirect my attention. I have been reading several comments on other boards regarding P30 ammo sensitivity. I shoot primarily 115gr Speer Lawman and the M&P loves it. I get the whole lock the slide back or rack it a couple hundred times to break in the spring. I been there done that with my Kahr, so much ammo cash down the tubes on that one. When you hear the terms, "break the gun in with hot ammo", what specifically and how many rounds are we talking? If someone can point me to the best break in ammo out there (specifically) and how many round to buy for the break in of a P30 I would appreciate it. Ultimately, this baby will get fed 115gr Lawman as I have way too much of it. Thanks

[F-Trooper05]

None of my P30's required any break in. If you need something hot though, 124gr NATO ball should do the trick.

With that said; have you mastered your M&P yet?

[BaiHu]

I needed about 300 rounds of 124 in my P30L. After that, that puppy will eat anything except for some steel casing stuff TGS loaned me when I was running low one day.

Sent using Tapatalk.

[hoghunter]

None of my P30's required any break in. If you need something hot though, 124gr NATO ball should do the trick.

With that said; have you mastered your M&P yet?

Nowhere near mastered it. Considering selling the M&P locally to get the P30. No real reason just cause I can't get the P30 out of my head. Not saying the HK is any better than the M&P9 but that P30 is so doggone sweet it's like I must have it. I am not a collector of firearms, more a temporary lien holder until I find something else I just gotta have- LOL. When folks say 125gr NATO ball what specific brand or exact ammo are they referring to? I'm talking down to product UPC number. Thanks

[jmjames]

I've put around 1,000 rounds of cheap, low powered stuff (Magtech 115, S&B 115, Federal 115, Remington UMC 115, etc. etc. etc.) through my P30 without a single malfunction of any kind. It inspires confidence overall. Next chance I get I'm putting some HST 124 +P through to verify proper feeding/cycling but I have no doubts that it will be fine.

If you look at the P30 and manually cycle it, what you'll see is that the round starts the process very high and that the feed ramp angle is relatively mild. There is little of the up-down movement that you see in other designs (like the 1911) that lead to bindings. I've cycled the same round in and out dozens of time (with a slingshot technique) with zero setback on the rounds, because there is so little contact with the round hitting the ramp head-on. This goes a long, long way to minimizing feed failures.

J.Ja

[Wolvee]

I don't know why so many people online say they have issues with lower grain bulk ammo. I didn't have any issues with either of my H&K's. (P30L & P2000SK) I didn't even clean them or add lube. ..Although I do have a habit of leaving the slide racked over night the day before I go and shoot a new gun. (Time permitting) I don't know if this helps at all but it's just something I do. I've never had to deal with any strange break in periods but I've always done it so I don't have anything to compare it with.

[DanH]

As far as 9mm NATO, Winchester sells it (not sure if anyone else does) it looks like standard Winchester White Box mostly, but it says 9MM NATO in big letters on the end of the box. I believe it is just regular 124gr FMJ loaded to +p pressures, which is NATO spec for 9mm ammo.
Midway USA had some listed on their website the last week or so, but I haven't checked the last few days.

Of course, I could be wrong :p

[JMS]

When you hear the terms, "break the gun in with hot ammo"...

....I stop listening to whichever idiot is talking, immediately following the word "...in...," because it's probably some Fudd; it's like saying your iPhone needs to be "broken in." Preposterous. The gun's either gonna work, or it's not, and you're testing THAT out, not "breaking it in."

There's no rubbing and polishing of mating surfaces. Modern duty-grade pistols don't require a "break-in period," nor do duty-grade ARs. They're not 1911s, nor accurized benchrest rifles with SS barrels that require a lot of genuflecting, and chanting, and burning of incense, and divining of auguries to shoot to their best possible potential accuracy. One pulls their modern duty-grade handgun out of the box, and one starts burning down ranges with it. Simple.

This Winchester Q4318 stuff, and similar...I've no doubt that it's loaded to some NATO/STANAG spec (there's more than just ONE for 9mm, folks...), but it's really pretty tame; standard +P level stuff. The US NATO 9mm is M882 147gr ball, which IS pretty hot stuff, though; something close to or passing 1300fps at the muzzle. Fun stuff with which to test your recoil management, if you can get it, but hot ammo is not going to imbue your pistol with some extra level of endurance if you use it to "break in the gun," or get it over with faster, or do something special to the springs, or any other gun-counter myth.

Just shoot the damned thing! Don't fret over how hot the ammo is, beyond whether or not it provides for reliable function of the firearm. YOU define your test period, though 1000-2000 malfunction-free rounds is the common range of recommended round-count you'll find aboard this forum and others. What ammo you use is the ammo that you can source for yourself at a reasonable cost. If 115gr Lawman is what you have tons of, you basically answered your own question.

[JodyH]

I've chrono'd the Winchester 124gr. NATO and it's no hotter than Federal AE or RWS 124gr. ball.
All were between 1150 and 1200fps from my P30.

[JV_]

I've chrono'd the Winchester 124gr. NATO and it's no hotter than Federal AE or RWS 124gr. ball.
All were between 1150 and 1200fps from my P30.
What makes it "HOT"? Pressure or Velocity?



Cartridge : 9 mm Luger (Para)
Bullet : .355, 124, Hornady FMJ/RN ENC 35577
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.150 inch or 29.21 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch or 127.0 mm

Powder type Filling/Loading Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P.max

Alliant POWER Pistol 103.8 5.9 1237 86.6 34000
Vihtavuori 3N37 103.8 5.9 1204 94.5 34000
Accurate No.5 85.5 6.3 1194 83.6 34000
Accurate No.7 93.7 7.1 1177 75 34000
Vihtavuori N330 97.7 4.6 1171 100 34000
Hodgdon Universal 97 4.5 1169 100 34000
Winchester 231 80.8 4.4 1134 100 34000
Accurate No.2 87.7 4.4 1129 97.2 34000
Hodgdon HP38 81.6 4.4 1127 100 34000
Vihtavuori N320 93.7 4 1117 100 34000

[secondstoryguy]

I didn't break in my 2 P30s. They worked perfectly out of the box with cheap Wally World fodder.

[hoghunter]

Thanks for all of the responses. The interwebs can be a terrible place for misinformation. When I need the TRUTH I surf this forum. Hope to have the P30 soon.

[John Ralston]

I put about 200 rounds of 115 grn Speer Blazer Brass through mine to make sure everything was functioning, then took it to a class and put another 1000 through it there. The Lawman round is a bit hotter than the Blazer Brass, so I would just load it up with what you have and start shooting.

[JodyH]

What makes it "HOT"? Pressure or Velocity?
Both, but velocity is the most easily measured since strain gauges aren't in most shooters inventory and are a bitch to install on a semi-auto pistol barrel (open slide designs like the Beretta 92 excepted).

[BaiHu]

....I stop listening to whichever idiot is talking, immediately following the word "...in...," because it's probably some Fudd; it's like saying your iPhone needs to be "broken in." Preposterous. The gun's either gonna work, or it's not, and you're testing THAT out, not "breaking it in.".....

IIRC, my HK manual suggested to 'break in' the spring and I questioned the veracity as well and I had 115gr and 124 grain with me when I shot it and it performed like a light switch on/off when comparing the 124 to 115. I have NO horse in this race, I'm totally fine with being wrong in this regard, but I found confirmation on HKPro when I was going through this-I actually thought my gun was broken the first time I tried it with 115.

Perhaps this has changed since I bought my P30L (I emphasize the L here, b/c I don't have a P30, yet) a little over a year ago, but I definitely had consistent FTE's when I tried 115s, but once I broke through approximately 300 rds of 124 grain, it hasn't had a problem EVAAAR!

[TGS]

....I stop listening to whichever idiot is talking, immediately following the word "...in...," because it's probably some Fudd; it's like saying your iPhone needs to be "broken in." Preposterous. The gun's either gonna work, or it's not, and you're testing THAT out, not "breaking it in."

There's no rubbing and polishing of mating surfaces. Modern duty-grade pistols don't require a "break-in period," nor do duty-grade ARs. They're not 1911s, nor accurized benchrest rifles with SS barrels that require a lot of genuflecting, and chanting, and burning of incense, and divining of auguries to shoot to their best possible potential accuracy. One pulls their modern duty-grade handgun out of the box, and one starts burning down ranges with it. Simple.

This Winchester Q4318 stuff, and similar...I've no doubt that it's loaded to some NATO/STANAG spec (there's more than just ONE for 9mm, folks...), but it's really pretty tame; standard +P level stuff. The US NATO 9mm is M882 147gr ball, which IS pretty hot stuff, though; something close to or passing 1300fps at the muzzle. Fun stuff with which to test your recoil management, if you can get it, but hot ammo is not going to imbue your pistol with some extra level of endurance if you use it to "break in the gun," or get it over with faster, or do something special to the springs, or any other gun-counter myth.

Just shoot the damned thing! Don't fret over how hot the ammo is, beyond whether or not it provides for reliable function of the firearm. YOU define your test period, though 1000-2000 malfunction-free rounds is the common range of recommended round-count you'll find aboard this forum and others. What ammo you use is the ammo that you can source for yourself at a reasonable cost. If 115gr Lawman is what you have tons of, you basically answered your own question.

JMS,

I would highly doubt that the common experience shared by many P30 owners makes them idiots. It's pretty well known that the P30's recoil spring is stiff at purchase, and some need to be broken-in before functioning reliably with weaker 115gr ammo. You'll see people reporting a lot of FTE's every once in a while when shooting their new P30, and it goes away with 1) Use or 2) An immediate switch to hotter or heavier ammo for a couple boxes. Even BaiHu has had this experience. I guess everyone's just an idiot, though...

And M882 isn't 147gr. M882 must comply with NATO specs, which specifies a bullet range from 112gr to 124gr max (as you noted, NATO spec includes more than just one specific weight, but 147gr isn't even in it). In addition, people around the interwebs have pulled and weighed M882 projectiles, measuring in at 124gr.

[ToddG]

I have to agree, even as a big proponent of the P30, it benefits from a little break-in with hot ammo in 9mm. It may not be necessary -- many guns run fine without it -- but if you can put 500 rounds of NATO/+p through it before getting serious with the gun, it will be that much more likely to run like a sewing machine the rest of your life.

I do not believe it's just the recoil spring, either. The whole gun is tight and getting a little wearing in of the mechanisms helps. We used to see the same thing with the sigpro when I worked at SIG. It would be interesting to know what effect that "fix" might have had on problematic gen4 Glocks, too.

[JMS]

Unfortunate that you took it the way you did. I wouldn't dream of calling out P30 owners as a group in such a fashion; 1) It would not be deserved on the basis of the quality of the gun, alone and 2) I know too many owners that I call friends....and they'd probably freakin' shoot me. My brush-stroke was far broader then you interpreted, and for a reason. I'll narrow it just far enough to say that the idea that every gun requires a break-in for mechanical purposes is one among many, many institutionally-entrenched concepts that I and my colleagues have to argue against practically every fiscal quarter with some form of outright mouth-breather or someone who's simply the victim of single-source training and hasn't thought to look beyond that. I.e., idiots.

RE: M882, yup, jammed my feet in my mouth (and they NEVER taste good...) by getting the bullet weight wholly wrong. That's what I get for skimming boxes on my shelf instead of reading them. Speaking of idiots, huh...? ;)

[JodyH]

One thing I noticed when I looked at jstyer's P30 was that it wasn't as smooth racking as my P30.
I don't think it's the recoil spring so much as the overall tolerance stacking on different pistols.
A few parts on the tight side of tolerances, maybe a little extra flash on the polymer molding and some guns might need the extra ooomph of the heavier rounds to power through it for a while.
My P30 has been flawless from day one, but after handling a few different brand new guns I can see where some may start out being a little more temperamental.
The P30 LEM has a lot of moving parts and is more susceptible to tolerance stacking than simpler designs.

[hoghunter]

So it seems like there may be some value in running some NATO stuff down the pipe, according to Todd G. Is it the Winchester stuff or is there a preferred rounds to use? I need to get something that is readily available for bulk purchase. The above post indicated that LEM may be more prone to possible issues? Decock version is more reliable? I wonder how I ever bought anything BEFORE the Internet !!!

[JodyH]

No, the LEM and DA/SA both have a lot of parts.
It's an H&K thing.

[BaiHu]

I have the V3 DA/SA and it was just some 124gr American Eagle for 6 boxes that did it for me. YMMV as JodyH said each gun can have its own idiosyncracies. And as Monty Python said, "every sperm is sacred every sperm is great..." and that goes for HKs as well.

Sent using Tapatalk.

[jmjames]

I think the takeaways are:

* Some P30's need a break in with a hotter load, some don't.
* If your P30 doesn't need it, one won't hurt.
* The only way to tell if your P30 needs one is to see if it works fine with the lighter loads out of the box.

If I got another P30, I'd just run cheap, light stuff through and if it was showing a need for a "break in" then I'd get something hotter. Just my opinion.

J.Ja

[zml342]

I think the takeaways are:

* Some P30's need a break in with a hotter load, some don't.
* If your P30 doesn't need it, one won't hurt.
* The only way to tell if your P30 needs one is to see if it works fine with the lighter loads out of the box.


^This

I am in the "my P30 ran fine" boat. I was able to run standard 115 and 124 loads without failure. If I was going to get another P30 (or any other gun that requires a break in) I would err on the side of caution and just buy a case of GECO or Ruag, which tends to be both hotter and cheaper in my experience. Just my $.02. YMMV.

[Chuck Haggard]

A couple of things;

1. The NATO stuff is no hotter than standard, it just seems hot compared to the 115gr bulk stuff on the market that is watered down so badly, like WWB or Remington 115gr FMJ. Tom Givens gave me a new term to steal, ref WWB, while I was at his place for the conference, ".380 Long Rifle".

You want "hot" then buy 124gr +P Gold Dot or 127gr Ranger-T, those are no BS hot loads.

For volume shooting and break-in I'd just run 124gr Winchester, RWS or Federal

Some decent prices on 124gr here; http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammunition/9mm-9x19


B. My gen 4 G17 wouldn't cycle with WWB at all, nothing but stovepipes, until I had a couple of hundred rounds through the gun. IT would appear that my RSA needed to be broken in just a bit to be able to function with the lighter loaded ammo.

[JodyH]

I run 124gr. Winchester, Federal or RWS as my practice/competition ammo.
I hate it when a "Value Pack" round doesn't knock down steel.

[Chuck Haggard]

Kyle DeFoor likes the 124gr Lawman due to the accuracy;

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=97663

[TCinVA]

My P30 doesn't like the Russian steel-cased stuff. I've experienced multiple failures to extract with it.

[SteveK]

Mine has run like a 1970 Challenger with Winchester white box and Speer Lawman. Next up is a case of CCI Blazer. Have heard some issues with Blazer but I hope that proves not to be the case as I have have good results with all other nines.

[joshs]

Mine has run like a 1970 Challenger with Winchester white box and Speer Lawman. Next up is a case of CCI Blazer. Have heard some issues with Blazer but I hope that proves not to be the case as I have have good results with all other nines.

Between two P30s I've shot over 6K of Blazer without any problems.

[JV_]

Blazer Brass or Aluminum?

[joshs]

Blazer Brass or Aluminum?

Aluminium.

[zml342]

My P30 doesn't like the Russian steel-cased stuff. I've experienced multiple failures to extract with it.

I've had similar issues. I ran a case of WPA through mine and struggled. I've heard of several other people (using P30s as well as other platforms) that have had issues with this steel cased ammo.

[Chuck Haggard]

Mine has run like a 1970 Challenger with Winchester white box and Speer Lawman. Next up is a case of CCI Blazer. Have heard some issues with Blazer but I hope that proves not to be the case as I have have good results with all other nines.

I have quite literally seen several million rounds of 9mm 124gr Blazer go downrange through S&W 3rd gen pistols and Glocks . It is good ammo.

[ToddG]

I shot a lot of Blazer through both my P30 and HK45. No issues. I also used it for much of my M&P9 test, the Glock 17 test, and shot tens of thousands of rounds of it each year through my various Berettas and SIGs when I was shooting for those companies, respectively. It's probably just about my favorite ammo ever.

[JodyH]

What I find odd is the Blazer aluminum seems to be better ammo than the Blazer brass.
I've shot cases and cases of Blazer aluminum (not that long ago it was under $100 per 1000) and do not remember any issues with it.
The Blazer brass I've shot seems to have more QC issues.

[hoghunter]

Well I ended up buying a P30L. Got a killer price for a NIB P30L at the LGS. Now for ammo selection.