An embarassing chase for a one hole group.

[iakdrago]

For about a year i've upped my shooting to about a case of ammo per month, with half of that going through gen 3 glock 19, and the other--an m&p9 fs.

I will start by saying, that the best answer to my problem is--taking a class. Hopefully that will happen sometime this year.

With that out of the way, i'm hoping that i might be able to diagnose my problem through the knowledge of the members of this forum. I can consistantly hit a 3"x5" card from 0-15 yards and average roughly 4 inch groups ofhand at 25. However there lays the problem--i hit the 3x5 card from 0-15, but seldom produce one ragged hole. With my m&p22 i can do that almost on command at 7 yards. Not so with the 9mm version. I've been chasing a similar one hole group for the passed couple months--and though it does happen, it's not consistant.

Lately my practice sessions have revolved around putting up 9 3"x3" post it on the backer, and going down the line--shooting 10 shots into each before moving on. Out of the 9, about 2 will be ragged one holes (hence the lack of consitancy). The one hole groups are generally on the right side stiickers , or bottom center stickers.

Some of my theories:

Shifting grip--producing lack of consitancy. I ordered a couple varying size stippled back straps to see if that would help.

Shifting trigger finger. I've been experimenting between medium and large backstrap. The medium one feels more comfortable, but the large one allows only one part of my trigger finger to make contact with the trigger.

Too much grip is ofsetting my sights during the shot (explaining why i can do it with a .22 but not with a 9mm)

Mayb a lighter tirgger pull/or APEX kit would help? I've rented a couple of sigs, and can achieve that one shot group with them (the single action pull is much lighter than the stock m&p)

MaybeI should try a different sight--with less of a space between the posts? I'm still running stock sights, albiet i blacked out the rear dots to increase the similarity with my traiing pistol (m&p22)

If someone with more expereince could point me to some other things to experiment with or offer some suggestions, i would be very thankful.

[ToddG]

Being able to hit a 3x5 at 15yd on demand, or being able to shoot 4" 25yd offhand groups on demand, are both enviable skills in and of themselves. While you're certainly right to push yourself for even better results, don't assume you're starting from a position of "something is wrong." It sounds more like you simply need more refinement. I'd suggest:


work on distances between 15yd and 25yd, see where things actually "fall apart" and then work to achieve at that distance.
work on your SHO bullseye shooting; this will help you develop good trigger control and visual control of the gun during the trigger press

[Odin Bravo One]

I can always shoot a 1 hole group................

so long as I only fire one shot............

[JConn]

I can always shoot a 1 hole group................

so long as I only fire one shot............

All you need is one right? ;)

[iakdrago]

Thank you for your advice on SHO shooting Todd, i will definitely give it a try. Any idea why there seems to be a disconnect between accuracy up close and at distance? If all goes well, i'm going to try to attend your fall CCW class, hopefully i'll have this problem figured out by then though.

[ToddG]

I don't see a disconnect. Again, 4" at 25yd is good. Your gun and ammo are almost certainly incapable of turning in a one hole group at that distance.

[iakdrago]

I don't see a disconnect. Again, 4" at 25yd is good. Your gun and ammo are almost certainly incapable of turning in a one hole group at that distance.

Is a a ragged hole at 7 yards too high of a standard to shoot for, practically speaking that is? I can pull it off with guns that have lighter triggers like the SA pull of a sig, or low recoil of an M&P22. I think your idea of SHO shooting is great, as it will build up my strong hand strength and help me isolate/aleviate those variables by focusing my practice on consistent trigger pull while also gripping the gun tightly with one hand.

[Odin Bravo One]

All you need is one right? ;)

Not usually, no.........



One might also try shrinking the target. Instead of using a 3x5 card at 7 yards, which is huge, and doesn't provide a very repeatable point of aim.............try say a 1" target paster, or dot. Even if the shots are not directly in the dead center, holding at the same precise point of aim can aid greatly in chasing that elusive "one ragged hole".

[JConn]

Internet... sarcasm... Not working... I'll shut up now.

[Al T.]

Having a consistent aiming point helps. Try getting some 1/2 or 3/4 round pasters in varying colors. I got mine cheap at Wal-Mart and use them for rifle shooting. Suspect you are shooting at the whole target.

BTW, IMHO, you may want to increase your speed as you seem to have the accuracy portion down fine. Got a shot timer? If not, again IMHO, skip that monthly case of ammo and get one with the money saved. :)

[GJM]

Using a M&P9, based on my experience with their lack of accuracy, is not conducive to shooting one hole groups.

[Simon]

In my experience,lack of a ragged one hole group at close range is caused by shifting focus from the front sight to the target and back to the sight between shots. I think you can get the one hole group if you just forget about it and focus on the front sight.

[DWB]

I have been playing a similar game with my .45 1911 lately, maybe some of my experiences will help, or at least not be too boring to read. Going for tiny groups at 7 yards. The original reasoning was to take the gun out of the equation...wow, you're shooting skills, or lack thereof, really show up quick. I get the occasional 5-round one (big) hole, some terrible, like 3", average is probably around an inch+. This game and another one (shooting playing cards @ 25 IIRC with my Single Six) made the importance of a light trigger, trigger control and grip very apparent. A very light trigger makes it easier, heavy trigger requires more skill and work, really, it's just plain harder. How you grip the gun affects where it shoots, regardless of sight alignment, due to recoil.

The other thing I would say, is to echo the others, and I think you need a smaller aiming point. I have some targets I printed that I downloaded somewhere a while back, bunch of little dots on an 8x11. or I juts sharpie some little circles or Xes on. One thing I noticed that helps is shooting off white or yellow card stock. Im bright sunlight, stark while paper gives me a blurry halo effect.

Man, I'd love to have a gun and the skills to shoot one hole at 25...some can, I think me and this old Colt's best is about 5". You might read up on bullseye shooting, lots of good info out there related to what we're trying to do.

Have fun, I am!