Duty-Grade LPVO at a Budget

[BK14]

I’m in the market for a variable scope to throw onto my work rifle. Only real requirements are a 1.5x or below low end, capped turrets and illuminated reticle.

I’m on a pretty limited budget when it comes to optics, so Nightforce kind of options is out, and the Razor HD is a bit outside as well.

I’ve heard good and some bad about the Steiner P4Xi, as well as the Vortex PST gen 2 1-6. My max budget is going to be around $700, and even that’s pushing it.

So any recommendations for LPVOs that are reasonably priced, but durable enough that you’d trust your life to it?

Thanks for any help!

[Coyote41]

$700 for optic and mount or just optic?

The Leupold VX-R 1-4x20 (not patrol) and an ADM Recon mount will run just under $700. I’ve used this combination for several years with good performance.

Overall, in the Sub $700 LPV range the Leupold VX-R is better than any other option until you reach Trijicon Accupoint, which can occasionally be found in the $650 range. Between the two I prefer the Leupold. I don’t like any of the lower end Vortex offerings.

[ASH556]

Accupower would get my vote.

[Alpha Sierra]

Steiner P4Xi 1-4X is an outstandingly clear, compact scope with an intuitive, fast, easy to use BDC reticle, and with an illuminated center red dot that is truly and absolutely daylight bright.

It is my experience superior to anything comparable from Trijicon. I sold off a Trijicon Accupower 1-4X with the red segmented circle reticle once I got the Steiner and saw how much better it is.

$700 should get you the scope and a QD offset mount like a Larue LT204 or ADM Recon. Even if you have to shell out $50 over budget, do it. It would be worth it.

I also got rid of the Aimpoint PRO that I used to have on the rifle that now wears the Steiner. I am literally as fast in any number of timed drills with the Steiner as I was with a red dot. And try as I might, I can't find an unconventional or odd position from which I can't see the reticle.

On paper the Vortex Viper PST 1-6X seems to be the equal but it's also significantly heavier than the 17 oz Steiner. IMO the extra weight doesn't justify the higher magnification on the top end when I consider the purpose of the rifle that wears my Steiner.

YMMV

[dontshakepandas]

I'm also happy with my P4Xi, but I haven't really been rough enough on it to comment on its durability.

You can pick it up with a Midwest Industries mount for $659 at DSG Arms.

If this was going on my primary rifle, I'd spend the extra and pick up one of the discounted Gen II Razors. The price difference isn't huge and it gives you an extra 2x and removes any doubt about durability. Even if its a little tight at the moment, I don't think you'd regret spending the extra and wouldn't have the what if thought in the back of your head.

[John Hearne]

Natchez if blowing out blemished Steines are we speak:

https://www.natchezss.com/email/2019/steiner.html?contact_eid=f4e20c8c-1beb-4a1e-876a-1bd66af9a3ec&utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Map&utm_content=Save+Up+To+$1690+On+Steiner+Optics+&utm_campaign=20190201_Steiner_16013&_bta_tid=39073413311401961584715884465410459392239 07188825583703202393559605912432402131838756619232 1918081812103169

[HCM]

Accupower would get my vote.

only downside to the accupower is it is not daylight bright.

The steiner PX4i would be my number one recommendation for a duty grade LPVO in this price range.

[Hizzie]

$519 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Steiner-5201-P3TR-Riflescope-1x-4x24mm/dp/B075MDXP49?th=1&psc=1

[Alpha Sierra]

only downside to the accupower is it is not daylight bright.

I found the Accupower's reticle to be too thin and difficult to pick up when trying to make time behind the rifle. The bullet drop stadia marks were also too thin to be easily visible when aiming at targets with low contrast to the background. The fact that illumination wasn't all that bright outside didn't help.

The stadia lines on the P4Xi are .75 MOA at their thinnest, while IIRC the stadia on the Accupower were .5 MOA thick. Doesn't seem like much difference till you look through them side by side.

[Clusterfrack]

I dislike the Accupower as well.

[BK14]

Thanks for the responses.

For those saying the Steiner is daylight bright, have any of you shot in NV/AZ type of regions? I’ve found that i can almost wash out an MRO even at max brightness.

Any durability issues after being banged around?

[ASH556]

Forgive me for being the contrarian, but the issue I have with the Steiner is the same as I have with the Vortex: if your battery dies the scope is useless (you just have a crosshair at that point). One of the big pro's to me of the Accupower is that the reticle is still 100% viable without illumination. Also very flat/clear image and miles of eye relief.

I no longer use an Accupower and am using the Nightforce NX8 now, but I wouldn't hate an Accupower if that's what I had to work with. Here are some reticle pics in different lighting from mine a few years back: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16336-Accupower-1-4&p=334405&viewfull=1#post334405

[BobM]

I have the Leupold VX/R Hog Hunter on a personal AR. I chose it over the Patrol model due to the capped turrets. I'd prefer to use it over my Aimpoint equipped patrol rifle, except that I don't know how it would hold up 12 hours a day in a cruiser rack.

[fwrun]

I have an Accupower that rides with me in a patrol car every shift. Personally, I love the reticle. I am quick up close with it, and have no difficulty with it at 2-400 yards.

The illumination isn’t daylight bright, but I work swing shift so I’m mostly on duty at night anyways. (I haven’t run into a situation during the day that I wished I had an illuminated 1-4 anyways, so it’s a non-issue in my experience). I run a M600DF and have no issue with the segmented circle, even in the woods. Overall I really like the scope.

Edit to add: I like the scope significantly more than the Vortex PST 1-4. And after using the Accupower and trying the VXR Patrol again (what I used before), I could never use the VXRP on my rifle again. Having true 1x and the better reticle is worth the squeeze.

[41magfan]

I've been very pleased with my Leupold VX-R; it's plenty bright and the eye-relief is very forgiving. If it weren't for the additional bulk and weight, it could pretty much supplant the use of an Aimpoint for me as the "lighted dot" is just a useful for my purposes. I've got about $620 in the scope and the LaRue mount and I can't conceive of any circumstance where durability might be an issue.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320x240q90/923/GEqkis.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnGEqkisj)

[Port]

I have the Leupold VX/R Hog Hunter on a personal AR. I chose it over the Patrol model due to the capped turrets. I'd prefer to use it over my Aimpoint equipped patrol rifle, except that I don't know how it would hold up 12 hours a day in a cruiser rack.

+1. I love mine. Clear glass, great field of view. Moreover, I love the reticle.

[Alpha Sierra]

Forgive me for being the contrarian, but the issue I have with the Steiner is the same as I have with the Vortex: if your battery dies the scope is useless (you just have a crosshair at that point). One of the big pro's to me of the Accupower is that the reticle is still 100% viable without illumination. Also very flat/clear image and miles of eye relief.

I no longer use an Accupower and am using the Nightforce NX8 now, but I wouldn't hate an Accupower if that's what I had to work with. Here are some reticle pics in different lighting from mine a few years back: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16336-Accupower-1-4&p=334405&viewfull=1#post334405

The Steiner reticle is far from useless without illumination. It's, in fact, visible and usable in dim indoor conditions without its own illumination on. Have you actually used one? The main stadia lines (all four of them) are tapered from very thick to moderately thick from outside to center. It drives your eye right to the middle.

I had the same exact scope (Trijicon) that you have. Without illumination, and in a dim situation, the four stadia lines all but disappear to my eye leaving only the crude, huge, segmented circle.

I can't comment on the Vortex because I don't have personal experience with it.

[BK14]

The Steiner reticle is far from useless without illumination. It's, in fact, visible and usable in dim indoor conditions without its own illumination on.


Is the reticle usable without illumination with a weaponlight as well, or is it too hard to see?

[Alpha Sierra]

Is the reticle usable without illumination with a weaponlight as well, or is it too hard to see?

Can't say. Haven't tried it. I imagine it depends on which light you have

Found this FWIW


https://youtu.be/iXgOrJwgemI

[Alpha Sierra]

For those saying the Steiner is daylight bright, have any of you shot in NV/AZ type of regions? I’ve found that i can almost wash out an MRO even at max brightness.

I've had no trouble picking it up in a bright clear sunny day over a snow covered field (very bright)

[Paul Blackburn]

$700 for optic and mount or just optic?

The Leupold VX-R 1-4x20 (not patrol) and an ADM Recon mount will run just under $700. I’ve used this combination for several years with good performance.

Overall, in the Sub $700 LPV range the Leupold VX-R is better than any other option until you reach Trijicon Accupoint, which can occasionally be found in the $650 range. Between the two I prefer the Leupold. I don’t like any of the lower end Vortex offerings.

The VXR !.5 - 4x20 is $465 at optics planet. I've got one and its fantastic! Capped turrets, 11.5 oz, good glass and eye relief, and its motion sensor activated. Battery lasts 6 months. Its super fast! Mine is in a Midwest Industry QD mount thats also vary light.

[ASH556]

The Steiner reticle is far from useless without illumination. It's, in fact, visible and usable in dim indoor conditions without its own illumination on. Have you actually used one? The main stadia lines (all four of them) are tapered from very thick to moderately thick from outside to center. It drives your eye right to the middle.

I had the same exact scope (Trijicon) that you have. Without illumination, and in a dim situation, the four stadia lines all but disappear to my eye leaving only the crude, huge, segmented circle.

I can't comment on the Vortex because I don't have personal experience with it.

I’m familiar with the difference in Accupoint and Accupower. This is what an Accupower looks like with no illumination.

34791

Without illumination the Steiner is just a crosshair.

34792

[Alpha Sierra]

I have had both. Have you?

If you haven't used a Steiner P4Xi you are assuming the reticle is unusable without illumination.

I'm not assuming the opposite. I know from first hand experience that you're flat out wrong.

[Coyote41]

Having true 1x and the better reticle is worth the squeeze.

This is personal preference, as I have zero issues with the 1.5X of the Leupold. I actual kind of like it now that my eyes aren’t what they used to be. I think Steyr was onto something when they equipped the AUG with the 1.5 fixed optic. (Though I can’t say the donut of death was a great idea).

As to reticles, on a “patrol” LPVO I prefer a clean duplex, which is another reason I chose the Leupold. I don’t see a need for a milling reticle for this type of work (with capped turrets and likely a second focal plane reticle), and I’m not a huge fan of BDC reticles. A duplex is plenty capable for the ranges that you could identify a target at with 4X power.

I cannot comment on the Steiner, as I have never used one.

[ASH556]

I have had both. Have you?

If you haven't used a Steiner P4Xi you are assuming the reticle is unusable without illumination.

I'm not assuming the opposite. I know from first hand experience that you're flat out wrong.

Fair enough. I’m flat out wrong then. I’ve never used a PX4. I’ve used a Vortex Razor extensively, which based on reticle pics seems to be very similar. Based on time behind a Razor, it doesn’t work at speed without illumination.

[joshs]

Fair enough. I’m flat out wrong then. I’ve never used a PX4. I’ve used a Vortex Razor extensively, which based on reticle pics seems to be very similar. Based on time behind a Razor, it doesn’t work at speed without illumination.

Maybe for you it doesn’t, but I notice very little difference in actual timed drills unless the lighting isn’t very good. I had the battery die on my Razor in the middle of a 3 gun match and didn’t even bother to replace the battery. It worked fine, and I’m not that slow so I assume that counts as “at speed.”

[jeffhughes]

I’ve got a Razor HD 1x6 I’d let go of at a good price....

[Moshjath]

I’ve been very satisfied with my Leupold Mk. IV MR/T 1.5-5, with an illuminated 5.56 BDC. Probably easy to find in your price range since it’s not the latest hotness. Good eye relief, does most everything I could want a carbine optic to do.

[PearTree]

For the price you are wanting I’d choose a Steiner. It punches far above its price tag.

[Wyoming Shooter]

This morning I ordered a Steiner P4Xi from Doug at Cameraland NY: https://cameralandny.com/shop/steiner-p4xi-1-4x24-p3tr-illuminated-law-enforcement/a5505f90-eb13-0134-dfd8-00163e9110c0?variation=1467309. During our call, Doug mentioned that the price of this optic is about to increase dramatically due to new tariffs. FYI.

[bluelineberean]

Dosent primary arms make one (not sure if its duty grade)

[Nephrology]

Vortex Viper PST Gen II or Gen I if you can find them on the used market.

https://dsgarms.com/magnified-optics-kt-vorpst-1605-sm30g2

[HCM]

Dosent primary arms make one (not sure if its duty grade)

Not duty grade, not day light bright.

[Tod-13]

Accupower would get my vote.

Same here. When with AccuPower for the less expensive scopes and Leupold 5HD special orders (for green reticles) for the slightly more expensive scopes.

[UNM1136]

I need to renew my membership, but Expertvoices, if you are eligible, has Trijicon irons, MRDS, and high end scopes. They also have Vortex, and my last Vortex 3x9 that I bought for my daughter's .260REM has been outstanding. Discounts on optics seem to run 30% or so.

pat

[Crash41984]

I bought a TR24G two weeks ago from sportoptics.com. $709.00 and free shipping.

[Tokarev]

Trijicon has a couple new options:

https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-credo-riflescope

[David S.]

Trijicon has a couple new options:

https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-credo-riflescope

The 1-6 is 19oz. Interesting

[SamueL]

Trijicon has a couple new options:

https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-credo-riflescope

Yes please!

I hope they are daylight bright.

[Alpha Sierra]

Trijicon has a couple new options:

https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-credo-riflescope

Rebranded Accupowers, which Trijicon imports from Japan

[Tokarev]

Yes please!

I hope they are daylight bright.

https://www.brownells.com/optics-mounting/scopes/rifle-scopes/credo-hx-1-4x24mm-sfp-illuminated-rifle-scope-prod133457.aspx

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Alpha Sierra]

https://www.opticsplanet.com/trijicon-credo-1-4x24mm-riflescope.html

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

How are these any different, optically and/or mechanically, than the Accupowers they resemble so much?

That one you linked looks exactly like the 1-4X Accupower with red segmented circle reticle (which was definitely not daylight bright) that I had and sold off for a Steiner.

[JSGlock34]

Primary Arms is clearing out Trijicon Accupowers.

https://www.primaryarms.com/AdName+Sale/SaleName+Select-Trijicon-AccuPower-Riflescopes-on-Sale

[ranger]

Primary Arms is clearing out Trijicon Accupowers.

https://www.primaryarms.com/AdName+Sale/SaleName+Select-Trijicon-AccuPower-Riflescopes-on-Sale

Wow!

[Tokarev]

Does anyone have any experience with the Crimson Trace scopes? There are a couple of low power options. Price seems very good for features.

https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/by-product-type/riflescopes

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[rob_s]

Does anyone have any experience with the Crimson Trace scopes? There are a couple of low power options. Price seems very good for features.

https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/by-product-type/riflescopes

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

I don’t know anything about them but the specs on the 1-4 (https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/by-product-type/riflescopes/01-00110) have me pretty interested to learn more...

[Tokarev]

I don’t know anything about them but the specs on the 1-4 (https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/by-product-type/riflescopes/01-00110) have me pretty interested to learn more...Indeed. The scope seems to check quite a few boxes.

Still I keep thinking if something seems too good to be true...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[jlw]

There's something to be said for an Aimpoint PRO and a 3x magnifier on a detachable flip mount. The magnifier can be used as a monocular when on surveillance, and it can be quickly flipped into place for longer shots.

[rob_s]

There's something to be said for an Aimpoint PRO and a 3x magnifier on a detachable flip mount. The magnifier can be used as a monocular when on surveillance, and it can be quickly flipped into place for longer shots.

This is where I think I'd land today, but only with the magnifier on a QD, flip-over, mount.

[Tokarev]

There's something to be said for an Aimpoint PRO and a 3x magnifier on a detachable flip mount. The magnifier can be used as a monocular when on surveillance, and it can be quickly flipped into place for longer shots.


This is where I think I'd land today, but only with the magnifier on a QD, flip-over, mount.

Except the magnifier is in the way when folded to the side and is easy to snag, bump, bang and ram against stuff. And taking the optic off and carrying it off the gun pretty much negates anything it might offer. Might as well carry a set of 8x22 binos in that case.

While the red dot and/or clip-on magnifier aren't obsolete and do offer some benefit they are an evolutionary dead end just as the 3x or 4x scope is.



Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

One idea I'd like to explore further is the funky idea that is the Leupold DEVO. I find the idea of the backup magnified scope quite interesting. Sort of the reversed decision of a high powered scope with something like an RMR or T2 set above or off to one side.

Problems are cost and size. Could Leupold do something similar in 4x and make it a bit smaller? Plus at $700 (before adding red dot) or whatever the going rate is a person can get a Steiner or even a Vortex or VX6.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[dontshakepandas]

Except the magnifier is in the way when folded to the side and is easy to snag, bump, bang and ram against stuff. And taking the optic off and carrying it off the gun pretty much negates anything it might offer. Might as well carry a set of 8x22 binos in that case.

While the red dot and/or clip-on magnifier aren't obsolete and do offer some benefit they are an evolutionary dead end just as the 3x or 4x scope is.



Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

This isn't true with the Unity Tactical FAST mounts. The magnifier flips down to the center rail and your sight line to the dot is directly over the magnifier.

I'm running LPVOs on my 16" guns, but wanted to stick with a dot for my SBR and found this to be an excellent option to still allow for magnification in case I do need it. There are still some things that are just easier/faster with a dot and the trade offs are worth it on this platform since it is unlikely to ever be used past 100 yards.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200112/da417142166a3b4dd4f14dfe35395349.jpg

[Tokarev]

This isn't true with the Unity Tactical FAST mounts. The magnifier flips down to the center rail and your sight line to the dot is directly over the magnifier.

I've seen that mount but never used it. Cheek weld looks more like chin weld.



Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[dontshakepandas]

I've seen that mount but never used it. Cheek weld looks more like chin weld.



Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

It is tall, but still very easy to be consistent for me. I definitely wouldn’t want an LPVO that high, but with the dot I barely notice the difference and the heads up shooting position has its own benefits.

I’ve heard it is even more useful for the cool kids with night vision, but that game is out of my price range.

[Tokarev]

I’ve heard it is even more useful for the cool kids with night vision, but that game is out of my price range.


That's where I've seen it used. Doesn't Unity actually market it as a riser for NV use?

What's the offset do for shooting stuff like rollover prone? Does it cause any issues?


Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[dontshakepandas]

That's where I've seen it used. Doesn't Unity actually market it as a riser for NV use?

What's the offset do for shooting stuff like rollover prone? Does it cause any issues?


Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

They do push that feature pretty heavily, but also push it for gas masks or even just electronic hearing protection which can benefit most shooters.

Unfortunately, I don’t have access to a range where I can shoot rifle calibers in positions other than standing or sitting, but there is more offset to deal with even in an upright position.

Like anything else, it has its tradeoffs and isn’t for everyone or every situation, but I think the idea has breathed some new life into the dot + magnifier option.

[LittleLebowski]

Rebranded Accupowers, which Trijicon imports from Japan

That’s normal, LOW builds scopes for a lot of manufacturers.

[Alpha Sierra]

That’s normal, LOW builds scopes for a lot of manufacturers.

I guess what I really meant to say is that I can't tell what's different about these scopes and the Accupowers that look so similar. At least not from what I can see on Trijicon's website.

[LittleLebowski]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?40220-Deal!-Burris-MTAC-Rifle-Scope-Combo-FastFire-III-amp-PEPR-Mount-1-4x-24-345&p=979894#post979894

[jlw]

Except the magnifier is in the way when folded to the side and is easy to snag, bump, bang and ram against stuff. And taking the optic off and carrying it off the gun pretty much negates anything it might offer. Might as well carry a set of 8x22 binos in that case.

While the red dot and/or clip-on magnifier aren't obsolete and do offer some benefit they are an evolutionary dead end just as the 3x or 4x scope is.



Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


I hate to have to tell these two that they were taken with such a poor equipment choice.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/7c580563105487f32878622cf4ab3bf5.jpg

They are joy alone...

[LittleLebowski]

I guess what I really meant to say is that I can't tell what's different about these scopes and the Accupowers that look so similar. At least not from what I can see on Trijicon's website.

Copy, I understand now. Uhh...better reticles?

[Alpha Sierra]

Uhh...better reticles?

Some are, some are still the same stuff from a year ago. It's very strange some of those scopes are apparently only a name change.

[Guerrero]

Did Steiner discontinue the P4Xi? Brownell's says "discontinued by manufacturer."

[Tokarev]

Did Steiner discontinue the P4Xi? Brownell's says "discontinued by manufacturer."I think they discontinued the 4-16x56 model.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Kram]

Did Steiner discontinue the P4Xi? Brownell's says "discontinued by manufacturer."

It's not discontinued but has just gone up in price.

[StraitR]

Trijicon has a couple new options:

https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-credo-riflescope

The 2-10x36 is interesting. About time they put out a 2-10 that wasn't a ridiculous 56mm. FFP and a real reticle are a plus as well.

[rathos]

I bought one, illumination was dead on arrival (ordered factory direct through their IOP program). Sent it back and got a new one, same issue. Decided to get my money back. Not sure I would try another or any of their red dots at this point for their price. I ended up buying the 1-6 atibal, just not sure if it is "duty" grade.


Does anyone have any experience with the Crimson Trace scopes? There are a couple of low power options. Price seems very good for features.

https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/by-product-type/riflescopes

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Wyoming Shooter]

I mounted and zeroed my P4Xi 1 - 4 this weekend. Early impressions are very favorable. The clarity is excellent. The illumination is definitely daylight bright. As others have noted, the turrets are seriously "mushy". Initial zero was at 200 yards. Next step is to see how the BDC reticle works with my IMI 77 grain ammo.

[BobLoblaw]

KD4 posted this a couple days ago:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7n09f2lY49/

[Alpha Sierra]

As others have noted, the turrets are seriously "mushy".

That's true. But outside of zeroing the scope, there's no other reason to touch them.

[Wyoming Shooter]

That's true. But outside of zeroing the scope, there's no other reason to touch them.

Agreed. The mushy adjustments make it a bit more difficult to zero. I will probably use my silver Sharpie to add some witness marks before replacing the caps. This is a nice optic and a very good value.

[Tokarev]

KD4 posted this a couple days ago:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7n09f2lY49/Probably a very nice optic but not priced like "on a budget."

Also is 10x low power? Pretty crazy if it works like all the hype indicates.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Alpha Sierra]

Probably a very nice optic but not priced like "on a budget."

Also is 10x low power? Pretty crazy if it works like all the hype indicates.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

I think it will live up to its hype based on some of the Gen II Razors I've looked through.

[Tokarev]

Geissele's 1-6:


https://firearmrack.com/geissele-super-precision-1-6x-optic-shot-show-2020/



Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[NPV]

Did Steiner discontinue the P4Xi? Brownell's says "discontinued by manufacturer."

If you’re in the market and don’t mind an open box....... https://cameralandny.com/shop/brands/steiner/steiner-p4xi-1-4x24-p3tr-illuminated-law-enforcement-open-box/e254c5d0-1cde-0137-39e2-00163ecd2826?variation=1914953

[Tokarev]

Another optic that seems pretty affordable. No experience with it:

https://www.scopelist.com/Meopta-Optika6-1-6x24-Illuminated-223-30mmSFP-Riflescope-653611.aspx

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[StraitR]

KD4 posted this a couple days ago:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7n09f2lY49/

Not buying the endorsement. Everyone knows "real" operators don't use keymod.

[Tokarev]

Not buying the endorsement. Everyone knows "real" operators don't use keymod.Or bridge their optics...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[StraitR]

Or bridge their optics...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

haha. I'm sure somebody commented on that too.

[Willard]

If you’re in the market and don’t mind an open box....... https://cameralandny.com/shop/brands/steiner/steiner-p4xi-1-4x24-p3tr-illuminated-law-enforcement-open-box/e254c5d0-1cde-0137-39e2-00163ecd2826?variation=1914953

Never dealt with this company before, but just ordered due to your post. Seemed like good price. Thanks.

[Guerrero]

Never dealt with this company before, but just ordered due to your post. Seemed like good price. Thanks.

Let us know how it turns out

[Tokarev]

Yikes! Steiner has drastically increased the MSRP on the P4XI:

https://www.steiner-optics.com/riflescopes/p4xi-1-4x24

[NPV]

Never dealt with this company before, but just ordered due to your post. Seemed like good price. Thanks.

I just bought a 4-16 from them, no complaints. They are a vendor on a long range forum I frequent and have shining review so I think they’re GTG, but let me know how your experience is.

As always I’m happy to enable.

[StraitR]

Never dealt with this company before, but just ordered due to your post. Seemed like good price. Thanks.

They have been a huge photography equipment vendor for quite some time, along with B&H and 42nd Street Photo. I wouldn't expect you to have any issues.

[AKDoug]

Cameraland NY is solid. Doug is active on a bunch of forums and I don't recall ever hearing a bad word about him. I've bought a few things from him over the years.

[Wyoming Shooter]

FYI--The eyepiece is 44.25 mm diameter and the objective is 30.05 mm. The Vortex Defender E-10 and O-24 fit perfectly. From the Big Empty, ELN.

[Willard]

If you’re in the market and don’t mind an open box....... https://cameralandny.com/shop/brands/steiner/steiner-p4xi-1-4x24-p3tr-illuminated-law-enforcement-open-box/e254c5d0-1cde-0137-39e2-00163ecd2826?variation=1914953

These guys earned a customer. Upgraded me to new in sealed box and included throw ring. Shipped super fast. Thanks again for the lead.

[Alpha Sierra]

These guys earned a customer. Upgraded me to new in sealed box and included throw ring. Shipped super fast. Thanks again for the lead.

Doug's the man

[Alpha Sierra]

Yikes! Steiner has drastically increased the MSRP on the P4XI:

https://www.steiner-optics.com/riflescopes/p4xi-1-4x24

Yowzer! I bought mine for $478 new from Optics Planet on Black Friday 2017.

[Tokarev]

The new Geissele 1-6 (in either tan or black) are in stock.

Retail price is fairly high so it probably doesn't fit the "budget" label. But G runs sales occasionally so this new scope might be something to keep an eye on.

Right off the bat I'm turned off by the weight. 1.5 pounds without a mount. For comparison the Leupold VX6HD has a published weight of 1.01 pounds. The Steiner p4xi is 1.08 without caps. Strange that they list it without caps but whatever.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[UNK]

Curious about the Steiner 1x4. Seems to be what I need but Ive seen a few remarks in other places about failures. Anybody have any feedback as far as durability of these scopes?
It seems the original scope didnt have the yardage lines on it and thats what I would preferred but that model is not available anymore.

[Krausewerks]

Curious about the Steiner 1x4. Seems to be what I need but Ive seen a few remarks in other places about failures. Anybody have any feedback as far as durability of these scopes?
It seems the original scope didnt have the yardage lines on it and thats what I would preferred but that model is not available anymore.

The Stiener is a great little scope. In it's price point it kill's Trijicon. Next to SWFA it's my favorite in the $400-$700 price point before you get into $1200+ optics. They're definitely not as bright, but one thing the Steiner and SWFA have over Primary Arms, Sig, Trijicon, and Vortex (even in their higher dollar offerings) is a really generous eyebox. That red dot like parallax performance is more important to me than ultra HD glass.

As far as durability, it's not a $1200+ scope. When you look to save money, your going to sacrifice some performance. Mine has come off of zero twice after running around the farm on the ATV with it in a boot. That said, my SWFA has not.

The ATV test isn't really a realistic test.... running around the range definitely isn't equal to bouncing threw the woods, tractor ruts and erosion tracks on a cattle farm, but there's a reason there's definite teirs in scope pricing.

[AKDoug]

Curious about the Steiner 1x4. Seems to be what I need but Ive seen a few remarks in other places about failures. Anybody have any feedback as far as durability of these scopes?
It seems the original scope didnt have the yardage lines on it and thats what I would preferred but that model is not available anymore.

I'm currently banging away with one in an ADM mount on top of a Kimber 8400 Talkeetna in .375 H&H. My round count is right at 52 today and no loss of zero within the accuracy of me and the rifle. Rifle is getting bounced around in my truck and on my wheeler between my 5 shots a day. I will likely stop at 100 rounds as that should be enough to make me happy as far as using the scope for hunting.

[Guerrero]

The Stiener is a great little scope. In it's price point it kill's Trijicon. Next to SWFA it's my favorite in the $400-$700 price point before you get into $1200+ optics. They're definitely not as bright, but one thing the Steiner and SWFA have over Primary Arms, Sig, Trijicon, and Vortex (even in their higher dollar offerings) is a really generous eyebox. That red dot like parallax performance is more important to me than ultra HD glass.

As far as durability, it's not a $1200+ scope. When you look to save money, your going to sacrifice some performance. Mine has come off of zero twice after running around the farm on the ATV with it in a boot. That said, my SWFA has not.

The ATV test isn't really a realistic test.... running around the range definitely isn't equal to bouncing threw the woods, tractor ruts and erosion tracks on a cattle farm, but there's a reason there's definite teirs in scope pricing.

The Steiner has gone up in price in the last few months, and it's getting hard to find. That being said, I'm eyeing up a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6x24.

[snow white]

I have been very happy with my p4xi. It has gone through many rifle classes in a variety of weather conditions as well as personal training at the range. No loss of zero or other parts breakage.
60083

[TWR]

The Stiener is a great little scope. In it's price point it kill's Trijicon. Next to SWFA it's my favorite in the $400-$700 price point before you get into $1200+ optics. They're definitely not as bright, but one thing the Steiner and SWFA have over Primary Arms, Sig, Trijicon, and Vortex (even in their higher dollar offerings) is a really generous eyebox. That red dot like parallax performance is more important to me than ultra HD glass.

As far as durability, it's not a $1200+ scope. When you look to save money, your going to sacrifice some performance. Mine has come off of zero twice after running around the farm on the ATV with it in a boot. That said, my SWFA has not.

The ATV test isn't really a realistic test.... running around the range definitely isn't equal to bouncing threw the woods, tractor ruts and erosion tracks on a cattle farm, but there's a reason there's definite teirs in scope pricing.

If a scope won’t stay zeroed on a 4 wheeler in a boot, it has no place on a rifle.

My Trijicons’s, SWFA’s and even Leupolds have all held zero mounted in a rack on front of my 4 wheeler and I’m not easy on gear. I’d send that scope back for inspection or check your mounts.

[shane45]

My money is on the mount...

[UNK]

My money is on the mount...

Can you expound on that?

[shane45]

Meaning that, given an optic of higher quality, when looking into problems, I have found it was the mount or the method in which it was mounted to be the issue. Not the optic its self. Im not saying it isnt possible. But I would look at the mount and mounting method first.

[DamonL]

There is a sale on Bushnell scopes here:

https://www.eurooptic.com/Bushnell-Elite-Tactical-II-SMRS-Specials.aspx

[rob_s]

There is a sale on Bushnell scopes here:

https://www.eurooptic.com/Bushnell-Elite-Tactical-II-SMRS-Specials.aspx

any particular reason they are discounted $800, or being offered at only 42% of retail?

[DamonL]

I have no idea why.

[dontshakepandas]

any particular reason they are discounted $800, or being offered at only 42% of retail?

I think I saw somewhere that these models were discontinued by the manufacturer. No idea if that's accurate or not.

[Xrslug]

any particular reason they are discounted $800, or being offered at only 42% of retail?

I did some quick research because it seems like such a great deal and the only complaint I found about them is that the illumination is not “daylight bright” — which is the death knell for the tactical LPVO crowd. [ETA: which can seemingly mean anything from “can’t see the dot in normal daylight” to “can’t see the dot while looking through the scope at the noonday Arizona sun.”]

[ffhounddog]

I bought two of the 1.6.5 Bushnell Pro's after selling a few items I do not need. Will go on a MK12 and a LWRC ICA2. I will see how there are over the next few months.

[littlejerry]

I ordered one as well. Should be here Wednesday. It'll go on a 12.5 and hopefully get sighted in this weekend.

[Choreboy]

https://www.eurooptic.com/Zeiss-CONQUEST-V4-1-4x24-ZQAR-Illum-Reticle-62-Ext-Elevation-Turret-Locking-Sing.aspx

I have no idea if this will hold up, but its got the Zeiss name going for it. I personally have the Steiner P4xi and my only complaint is the lack of positive clicks on the illumination setting.

[Xrslug]

Further to the “duty grade” LPVO question, I found the following article interesting:
https://www.defensereview.com/tactical-ar-15-m4-m4a1-carbine-aftermarket-accessories-for-military-cotactical-ar-15-m4-m4a1-carbine-aftermarket-accessories-for-military-combat-applications-the-competition-to-combat-crossover-part/
US Special Forces using Vortex Viper PST and Strike Eagle LPVOs in combat within the last few years — because they worked fine and the soldiers couldn’t afford fancier scopes.

[DamonL]

I ordered one as well. Should be here Wednesday. It'll go on a 12.5 and hopefully get sighted in this weekend.

Do you have any initial impressions?

Thanks.

[HCM]

Further to the “duty grade” LPVO question, I found the following article interesting:
https://www.defensereview.com/tactical-ar-15-m4-m4a1-carbine-aftermarket-accessories-for-military-cotactical-ar-15-m4-m4a1-carbine-aftermarket-accessories-for-military-combat-applications-the-competition-to-combat-crossover-part/
US Special Forces using Vortex Viper PST and Strike Eagle LPVOs in combat within the last few years — because they worked fine and the soldiers couldn’t afford fancier scopes.

That article has been posted here before.

Be cautious about the “Special Forces uses it”

Sone dudes buying something for a deployment does not equal tested /issued/approved by the organization(s).

US SF, SOCOM etc issue the Vortex Razor 1-6 and the NF Atacr 1-8.

Not all SF units are issued LPVOs but many have “big boy” rules so guys that want LPVOs instead of ACOGs, Elian’s, M68s etc can buy and use their own optic.

HOWEVER, while those guys can all generally shoot, many are not “gun guys.” they often just use / know how to use what they are issued. They also have families, bills, child support etc so a guy who buys a Vioer PST may have it because it’s what he could afford vs thinking it is “just as good.” It could also be all they could get on short notice before a deployment.

Speaking of which “my strike eagle survived a deployment” can simply mean - I didn’t drop my rifle this time.

And if they do drop that strike eagle and break it, they can always swap back to their issued optic.

The PST is actually a solid optic. It is the same weight as the original and doesn’t have the locking /protected rheostat so it can bump on your gear and kill your battery but otherwise it’s GTG if you don’t need the weight savings of the E model Eazor.

[littlejerry]

Do you have any initial impressions?

Thanks.

Unfortunately I haven't put a lot of rounds down range due to the shortage. Only ~200 at this point, from 50-300 yards.

It seems like a quality optic. For the price I paid I have no regrets. With the correct eye relief and diopter adjustment there is a very thin occular ring visible. My one issue is I can't mount it far enough forward to get the best eye position. Farther forward=thinner occular ring/shadow.

The illumination works well enough. Not red dot bright, but still visible in daylight. My old PST 1-4 was nowhere near this bright, it only created dark red tint when used outdoors. The SMRS has a reasonably bright dot visible outdoors. I live in GA and shoot in grassy fields and forests. Someone in the desert or winter tundra may find it lacking.

Turrets are good and the built in throw lever works great. At 17.1oz on my scale and $600, I think it's worth the cost and weight.

I'll be using it in a biathlon in December so I'll have more thoughts then.

[DamonL]

Thank you for sharing that! The PST Gen 2 1-6, that HCM mentioned, is $600, too. Not sure which way to go between this and the PST, so I appreciate the info.

I think the ADM Recon X will put the scope further forward. I am sure there are other mounts that will do the same. It looks like the eye relief is 4 inches on the Bushnell and 3.8 for the Vortex so that matches your observation. The weight difference is significant. I have taken a look through the vortex and it is nice and the dot is bright. I liked it a lot.

[littlejerry]

The 5 oz weight difference is significant which is the main reason I went for the SMRS. That and the reputation of Japanese glass and construction.

The PST 1-6 was my original plan. They can be found used for <$500. Changed course when I saw the SMRS deal. SMRS + NF unimount = PST gen 2 with no mount.

If illumination was more important I may be inclined to go P4XI instead of PST G2 just for weight.

[DamonL]

If you haven't found the correct eye relief yet, you could swap the free-float tube with an EMR V3. Then you could move the mount forward a notch or two. Not sure if its worth it. Just brainstorming if its an issue.

[HCM]

Further to the “duty grade” LPVO question, I found the following article interesting:
https://www.defensereview.com/tactical-ar-15-m4-m4a1-carbine-aftermarket-accessories-for-military-cotactical-ar-15-m4-m4a1-carbine-aftermarket-accessories-for-military-combat-applications-the-competition-to-combat-crossover-part/
US Special Forces using Vortex Viper PST and Strike Eagle LPVOs in combat within the last few years — because they worked fine and the soldiers couldn’t afford fancier scopes.


That article has been posted here before.

Be cautious about the “Special Forces uses it”

Sone dudes buying something for a deployment does not equal tested /issued/approved by the organization(s).

US SF, SOCOM etc issue the Vortex Razor 1-6 and the NF Atacr 1-8.

Not all SF units are issued LPVOs but many have “big boy” rules so guys that want LPVOs instead of ACOGs, Elian’s, M68s etc can buy and use their own optic.

HOWEVER, while those guys can all generally shoot, many are not “gun guys.” they often just use / know how to use what they are issued. They also have families, bills, child support etc so a guy who buys a Vioer PST may have it because it’s what he could afford vs thinking it is “just as good.” It could also be all they could get on short notice before a deployment.

Speaking of which “my strike eagle survived a deployment” can simply mean - I didn’t drop my rifle this time.

And if they do drop that strike eagle and break it, they can always swap back to their issued optic.

The PST is actually a solid optic. It is the same weight as the original and doesn’t have the locking /protected rheostat so it can bump on your gear and kill your battery but otherwise it’s GTG if you don’t need the weight savings of the E model Eazor.

My PST is fine for what I use it for but this is why you buy a Razor for duty / deployment use.

62506

[DamonL]

In this article, an optics dealer says he see’s damaged Razors more than he should and would not recommend them.

https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/best-low-power-variable-optic-lpvo-expert-advice/

Of course all the recommended optics do not fall into the budget category.

[HCM]

In this article, an optics dealer says he see’s damaged Razors more than he should and would not recommend them.

https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/best-low-power-variable-optic-lpvo-expert-advice/

Of course all the recommended optics do not fall into the budget category.

Consider the source. The optics dealer who sells and recommends more expensive optics doesn’t recommend the razor. He recommends the K6i which is a far more fragile optic.

The actual end users / trainers in the article including Kyle Defoe and Alex from Ridgeline don’t share those concerns.

As someone who owns both a razor and the K-6i I personally have seen 3 K6i’s with durability issues - 1 reticle issue and 2 broken illum knobs. I’ve seen one razor with a stuck/damaged turret.

[newyork]

Anyone using a 1-4 LPVO with fixed front sight post? Any thoughts?

[rd62]

Anyone using a 1-4 LPVO with fixed front sight post? Any thoughts?

I have a 1.5-6 (which isn't exactly what you asked about). I've move to a low pro gas block under the rail but had no issues with the fixed FSB when in that configuration.

[newyork]

Thank you!

[DamonL]

Consider the source. The optics dealer who sells and recommends more expensive optics doesn’t recommend the razor. He recommends the K6i which is a far more fragile optic.

The actual end users / trainers in the article including Kyle Defoe and Alex from Ridgeline don’t share those concerns.

As someone who owns both a razor and the K-6i I personally have seen 3 K6i’s with durability issues - 1 reticle issue and 2 broken illum knobs. I’ve seen one razor with a stuck/damaged turret.

Yes, I agree with paying attention to the source. In the article, Kyle puts the Kahles in the second tier. Alex puts it in the middle. I did learn about the dual-focal plane Schmidt and Bender from the article, though.

[DamonL]

Here is the Weaver 1-5 Tactical. Under $500 on sale. It says made in Japan.

https://www.natchezss.com/weaver-tactical-rifle-scope-1-5x24mm-30mm-sf-illum-ffp-cirt-reticle-matte-black.html?contact_eid=442d9883-7503-45f7-b8f8-bf2bcd7941a3&utm_source=bm23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Map&utm_content=Weaver+Gift+Ideas+for+Your+Favorite+Hu nter+&utm_campaign=20201211_weaver_18375&_bta_tid=20814234991401961584715884460168690598666 68082092565434270327570635828554708918958643381781 6334009799507969

[pastaslinger]

Very pleased with my 1-5x Burris XTR II's with the BDC reticle. The reticle design is fantastic and it's just all around a great scope, very fast up close.

[Nephrology]

I picked up a Meopta ZD 1-4 for $680 used. They retail for much more but they are an older optic for sure. Not sure I'd have paid retail for this scope but very happy at the price.

Glass is really nice and illumination is fantastic. Not as good as Razor/Viper but they use a different modality of illumination as I understand it. The reticle on this scope is still daylight bright at least from my fiddling around with it unmounted.

It's going to go on a rifle that is still mostly backordered, but once that gets in I'll do a more thorough review as there isn't a ton of info out there on them. Likely January or so.

[littlejerry]

I was able to run a 2-gun biathlon this weekend using my new SMRS Pro 1-6.5.

Ranges were relatively short, from about 10 yards out to 100. Most targets were steel. It was a bright day with a mix of shooting in dense woods and open ranges.

I didn't use, or want, any illumination. The thick bars of the CQBDC reticle made it easy to find center and the large-ish center dot was easy to pick up while being precise enough to take head shots at 100 yards. All of my shooting was done at 1x or 2-3x, with most being in the 2-3x range. I never used 6.5 as the ranges were so short.

I have 2 complaints about the optic:
1) After adjusting the diopter to be properly focused the scope appears to be at <1x on the lowest power. Objects at 10+yards are noticeably smaller through the scope than the naked eye. This plays funny games with my vision and makes it difficult at times to shoot both eyes open. Turning the lever up to ~1.25x seems to flatten the image out. Adjusting the diopter for a flat image at 1x leaves the reticle slightly out of focus at all mags. My perception of the lack of focus seems to be dependent on my overall fatigue level.
2). The PTL position is not adjustable and lives at ~7:30 when on 1x. It sticks out far enough that it digs into my back when I run with the rifle on my back(I always run with the ejection port OUT). The PTL is mounted to a T shaped piece of aluminum milled directly into the power ring. Even if I remove the PTL, the T is still there and significantly sharper. I may try to fabricate my own lever/sleeve to smooth out the ring. I have a wicked blood blister from the 3 mile run due to the lever.

Overall the scope was easy to use. I didn't get to use the BDC, or even max power, so this wasn't a thorough test. I managed to place first overall in shooting, so something was definitely working for me.

I'll keep using this scope and see how it works in a race with some longer distance (300+) shooting. I like it, but I'm still tempted by a lighter/simpler option like the Primary Arms 2x prism, maybe with an offset MRDS.

[HCM]

Anyone using a 1-4 LPVO with fixed front sight post? Any thoughts?

The Army is getting ready to start replacing ACOGs with 1-6 LPVOs on the M4A1 which has a fixed front.

[HCM]

I was able to run a 2-gun biathlon this weekend using my new SMRS Pro 1-6.5.

Ranges were relatively short, from about 10 yards out to 100. Most targets were steel. It was a bright day with a mix of shooting in dense woods and open ranges.

I didn't use, or want, any illumination. The thick bars of the CQBDC reticle made it easy to find center and the large-ish center dot was easy to pick up while being precise enough to take head shots at 100 yards. All of my shooting was done at 1x or 2-3x, with most being in the 2-3x range. I never used 6.5 as the ranges were so short.

I have 2 complaints about the optic:
1) After adjusting the diopter to be properly focused the scope appears to be at <1x on the lowest power. Objects at 10+yards are noticeably smaller through the scope than the naked eye. This plays funny games with my vision and makes it difficult at times to shoot both eyes open. Turning the lever up to ~1.25x seems to flatten the image out. Adjusting the diopter for a flat image at 1x leaves the reticle slightly out of focus at all mags. My perception of the lack of focus seems to be dependent on my overall fatigue level.
2). The PTL position is not adjustable and lives at ~7:30 when on 1x. It sticks out far enough that it digs into my back when I run with the rifle on my back(I always run with the ejection port OUT). The PTL is mounted to a T shaped piece of aluminum milled directly into the power ring. Even if I remove the PTL, the T is still there and significantly sharper. I may try to fabricate my own lever/sleeve to smooth out the ring. I have a wicked blood blister from the 3 mile run due to the lever.

Overall the scope was easy to use. I didn't get to use the BDC, or even max power, so this wasn't a thorough test. I managed to place first overall in shooting, so something was definitely working for me.

I'll keep using this scope and see how it works in a race with some longer distance (300+) shooting. I like it, but I'm still tempted by a lighter/simpler option like the Primary Arms 2x prism, maybe with an offset MRDS.


I noticed the same < 1X thing on the Leupold VX-6 1-6. Big reason I sent that optic down the road.

Have not noticed it on my gen 1 Bushnell 1-6.

[HCM]

Ran the K6i with GB4i reticle for the initial portion of a recent Green Ops carbine course. I've mostly used this at longer ranges (50-500 yards).

The Green ops class was 50 and in, with most shooting being between 10 and 25 yards. Unlike other LPVO's I've used (Razor 1-6, Steiner PX4i, Trijicon acupoint
VX-R Patrol) I was noticeably slower with the K6i at 1x and felt like I was getting sucked into the dot. Not sure if it's just my eyes ? It was suggested that the mini christmas tree in the GB4 reticle may draw the eye ?

The other issue was the illumination knob was self adjusting when slung. At one point it self adjusted enough to turn itself off.

[littlejerry]

I noticed the same < 1X thing on the Leupold VX-6 1-6. Big reason I sent that optic down the road.

Have not noticed it on my gen 1 Bushnell 1-6.

I should add that the 1x / diopter mismatch is pretty small. There is a pretty decent range of diopter adjustment that gives me a sharp reticle. I just adjusted it(again) and biased it as close as possible toward the "flat image" end of what appeared sharp. As of right now it seems to show a flat 1x image, although I've done this before and after picking up the rifle a day later had to readjust for a sharp(er) reticle.

[HCM]

Anyone using a 1-4 LPVO with fixed front sight post? Any thoughts?


The Army is getting ready to start replacing ACOGs with 1-6 LPVOs on the M4A1 which has a fixed front.


https://youtu.be/j7XJVyVZ5sk

[Wake27]

Ran the K6i with GB4i reticle for the initial portion of a recent Green Ops carbine course. I've mostly used this at longer ranges (50-500 yards).

The Green ops class was 50 and in, with most shooting being between 10 and 25 yards. Unlike other LPVO's I've used (Razor 1-6, Steiner PX4i, Trijicon acupoint
VX-R Patrol) I was noticeably slower with the K6i at 1x and felt like I was getting sucked into the dot. Not sure if it's just my eyes ? It was suggested that the mini christmas tree in the GB4 reticle may draw the eye ?

The other issue was the illumination knob was self adjusting when slung. At one point it self adjusted enough to turn itself off.

Interesting, many think that the K6i outperforms the Razor on 1x, though I don’t know which reticle is preferred. How did your time on the Razor stack up?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCM]

Interesting, many think that the K6i outperforms the Razor on 1x, though I don’t know which reticle is preferred. How did your time on the Razor stack up?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I found the razor on 1x more “red dot ish”

The image on the K6i is clear and flat but like I said - I get sucked into the dot for sone reason.

[Tokarev]

Don't know about "duty grade" relating to these but the price sure seems good.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006751492

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020618935?pid=149367

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

Don't know about "duty grade" relating to these but the price sure seems good.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006751492

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020618935?pid=149367

Sent from my SM-G970U using TapatalkNot sure how I managed to link to a Mini-14 stock.

Let's try again:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/102061946?pid=587565

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[msstate56]

Not sure how I managed to link to a Mini-14 stock.

Let's try again:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/102061946?pid=587565

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I'd pass on the CT scopes. I had the 1-5x version with that same reticle a while back. The FFP nature of the reticle made it terribly difficult to use on 1x. The illumination was not what I would call "daylight bright." After using at least 10 different LPVO scopes, I have decided that second focal plane reticles are what I vastly prefer in a LPVO.

I do really like my Trijicon Credo 1-6x with the segmented circle BDC reticle however. I did NOT like the Credo 1-4x though.

[TWR]

Curious on the difference or why you liked the 1-6 but not the 1-4?

[rathos]

I think it was this thread a ways back, but I would never trust a Crimson Trace scope for duty. I bought a 1x4 as a test bed. It was DOA. I seriously thought I was doing something wrong. Sent it back and got a new one, same issue. After the second one was also bad I decided to just get a refund.


Not sure how I managed to link to a Mini-14 stock.

Let's try again:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/102061946?pid=587565

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Coyote41]

Curious on the difference or why you liked the 1-6 but not the 1-4?

I can’t answer for him, but I have both and like both credos. If money isn’t an issue, the 1-6 is better with very little increase in size and weight. I have the 1-6 in FFP, which is less forgiving at 1X, but provides a good reticle for ranging. It’s probably a little excessive for a patrol rifle, where a finer SFP reticle and simple, brighter dot illum would be desirable.

I got the 1-4, which is only available as SFP (makes sense), with the milling reticle as well. The middle portion of the reticle illuminates, not just the center dot. This may be distracting if you like a simple dot on 1X.

Both are brighter than my 1-8 ffp accupower and have excellent glads. Neither are super bright, but I’ve not run into a situation where they were inadequate.

I purchased them because they had a combination of features not offered elsewhere (or for the price). Most 1-4s are derpplex reticles or bdc, neither of which are as useful as a milrad reticle. If they did have a mil reticle, they had exposed turrets. For the 1-6, the FFP option combined with the light weight and reticle sold me. I’ve used the 1-8 FFP with good success hunting, but it’s a pig. The 1-6 FFP comes in lighter than the vortex viper pst gen 2, with better reticle and better glass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[msstate56]

Curious on the difference or why you liked the 1-6 but not the 1-4?

The eyebox was much tighter on the 1-4x. I had them mounted in identical mounts on two rifles and compared back to back (both SFP). The 1-6x had a much better field of view as well. It was worth the extra expense and weight. I find that the illumination (at least on the segmented circle red reticle) is plenty bright enough. I can see it in full sunlight, and still see it when looking back towards a low angle sun. Since the entire circle and center dot light up, there is no need for "aimpoint bright" as the circle would wash out the sight picture. I liken the segmented circle to a LPVO "eo-tech" type sight picture.

[TWR]

Hmmm, I might have to try the 1-6. I have 2 of the 1-4 Accupowers both with the red segmented circle. The eye box is very generous but the illumination could stand to be a little better. If the 1-6 offers more than just more magnification, it’s gotta be quite a scope.

Thanks for the reply.

[pastaslinger]

Has anyone checked out the Athlon 1-10x? It seems like a competitor to the Vortex Razor Gen III at about half the price however I am not sure about where it is made.

[ranger]

I bought one of these Bushnell 1-6.5 on sale a while back and EuroOptic is still selling them on discount. https://www.eurooptic.com/Bushnell-SMRS-1-65x24-ILL-CQ-BDC-Riflescope-ET71624.aspx

I do not have a lot of time on it but it yet seems like an extraordinary scope for the price. I am not a glass quality snob but it probably some of the best pure optical glass I have. I put it on a 16 inch AR. My only grips it is kind of heavy.

I like the discontinued Leupold VX-R series for my "lighter rifles" - I picked up some of the VX-Rs like new locally.

[littlejerry]

I bought one of these Bushnell 1-6.5 on sale a while back and EuroOptic is still selling them on discount. https://www.eurooptic.com/Bushnell-SMRS-1-65x24-ILL-CQ-BDC-Riflescope-ET71624.aspx

I do not have a lot of time on it but it yet seems like an extraordinary scope for the price. I am not a glass quality snob but it probably some of the best pure optical glass I have. I put it on a 16 inch AR. My only grips it is kind of heavy.

I like the discontinued Leupold VX-R series for my "lighter rifles" - I picked up some of the VX-Rs like new locally.

I'm still enjoying my FDE "Pro" version of this scope. It has capped turrets, a fixed PTL, and weighs 17oz.

Glass is indeed good. Reticle is simple and usable. At $600 I don't think I could have found a better option.

[Nephrology]

Just came back from the range today after zeroing the new Recce threw together on the lower that once belonged to my cheap-o PSA 11.5" upper. After shooting my Optika6 1-6 and my ZD 1-4 (both by Meopta), I have to say that I think the Optika6 1-6 SFP is the best <$1k LPVO on the market, beating out the Gen 2 Viper PST 1-6 (which I also own).

The glass on the Optika6 is definitely much clearer with less chromatic aberration and more clarity at 200M, and it weighs about 3oz less to boot. The only downside is the illumination on the Optika6 is not going to be daylight bright like the PST, so if you're looking for red dot performance at 1x in daylight, you'll want the Vortex product. Otherwise I am definitely a Meopta convert. Highly underrated products for the money, IMO. Check them out next time you're in the market.

[msstate56]

I'm still enjoying my FDE "Pro" version of this scope. It has capped turrets, a fixed PTL, and weighs 17oz.

Glass is indeed good. Reticle is simple and usable. At $600 I don't think I could have found a better option.

I bought two of these for my short range hunting rifles. One on a 6.8 SPC and the other on a similarly set up 5.56. I really like these scopes for close range hunting. The illumination does not get "daylight" bright; however, the other side of that is the illumination gets very dim. In very low light, I can set it dim enough that it doesn't wash out my view. I took a nice buck right at the end of hunting light back in December.

[msstate56]

Hmmm, I might have to try the 1-6. I have 2 of the 1-4 Accupowers both with the red segmented circle. The eye box is very generous but the illumination could stand to be a little better. If the 1-6 offers more than just more magnification, it’s gotta be quite a scope.

Thanks for the reply.

I no longer have them side by side to compare, but I do think the illumination was a bit brighter on the 1-6 as well. Everyone has a different idea of how bright they need their LPVO, but for me- the 1-6 Credo with red segmented circle is plenty bright enough for full sunlight use.

[pastaslinger]

Has anyone gotten to try out the Athlon ETR 1-10x? I like the reticle (and price) over the vortex but I'd be buying sight unseen...