New 1911 Dilemma- 9mm or .38 Super

[Joe in PNG]

I've decided to get a Dan Wesson Guardian this summer.
Now the question is- 9mm, or .38 Super?

Pros & cons 9mm:
+the cheaper ammo option
-potential of playing the magazine game
+low recoil (I've got problems in my left wrist)
-more potential problems with full size guns

Pros & cons .38 Super:
-fewer ammo options (though I'm planning on also getting into reloading)
+more general reliability
+"Classic" appeal

[M2CattleCo]

I'd go 9mm and use Wilson and Metalform mags.

I'm seeing less mag related problems with 9 than 45 as I'm not spreading feedlips, I think due to the lighter round stack.

38 Super is annoying with the semi rim and unless you want to shoot Águila FMJ you're gonna be reloading. Which is ridiculous in itself.

[Robinson]

If you want to shoot it a lot and/or take advantage of all the good defensive ammo options available, get the 9mm.

If you just really want a .38 Super for the coolness factor then do that. Also, recoil with .38 Super in a 1911 really isn't anything to worry about. If it's about nostalgia, why not get a Colt Government Model?

The 9mm probably checks more boxes.

If you do end up getting a Dan Wesson, pay attention to and follow their recommended break-in procedure. I'm normally in the camp that thinks guns shouldn't require a break-in period but Dan Wesson is pretty adamant about following theirs -- especially for stainless guns.

[sharps54]

I voted 38 Super but I can’t really defend the choice as practical.

If you already reload (going in knowing this is an expensive round to even reload because of the oddball brass and bullets) and you want a neat, classic cartridge go 38 Super. Otherwise just go 9mm and be done with it. Truth is if you are going to carry it you’ll have to reload to get defensive rounds equal to the most modern 9mm offerings anyway.

I almost wonder (if one didn’t mind the peer pressure) if 10mm factory loads (between .40 and full house 10mm) wouldn’t be a better option over .38 Super if one wanted greater capacity with a full length cartridge in a 1911. Ammo and components would be more plentiful and the weaker loads shouldn’t be bad to shoot.

[Wondering Beard]

Isn't it possible to shoot 38 super and 9mm out of the same gun so long as barrel and magazines are changed?

[M2CattleCo]

Kinda. 9mm really does better with a longer ejector and getting the extractor right is a challenge.

[ranger]

Isn't it possible to shoot 38 super and 9mm out of the same gun so long as barrel and magazines are changed?

In general, yes. I had a Colt 1911 that I did just that - I had three barrels: traditional 9mm, 38 Super, 9mm "long" throated for 9mm loaded to 38 Super length.

[revchuck38]

I voted 38 Super but I can’t really defend the choice as practical.

If you already reload (going in knowing this is an expensive round to even reload because of the oddball brass and bullets) and you want a neat, classic cartridge go 38 Super. Otherwise just go 9mm and be done with it. Truth is if you are going to carry it you’ll have to reload to get defensive rounds equal to the most modern 9mm offerings anyway.

I almost wonder (if one didn’t mind the peer pressure) if 10mm factory loads (between .40 and full house 10mm) wouldn’t be a better option over .38 Super if one wanted greater capacity with a full length cartridge in a 1911. Ammo and components would be more plentiful and the weaker loads shouldn’t be bad to shoot.

I went with .38 Stupid too. Brass is definitely more expensive since 9x19 brass is all but free for the picking for most of us who shoot at public ranges. My guess is that the same barrel blanks are used for 9x19 and .38 Super and just the chambers are different, so the bullets are the same.

I'm down to one 1911 and I still have it because everyone needs to have one. But I go through spells where I get a hankerin' for a 5" in .38 Super, to be loaded with either 150-grain LSWCs or 160-grain RNLs to ~175 PF...just because.

[Bucky]

Purpose?

Fun gun / game gun - 9mm

Defense gun - .38 super

Perfect world - 9x23. ;)

[Joe in PNG]

Purpose?

Fun gun / game gun - 9mm

Defense gun - .38 super

Perfect world - 9x23. ;)

Defensive gun that will be shot a lot, and be used for games.

[Rock185]

Joe in PNG, Don't think you can go wrong. If you're going to be using the gun in New Guinea, I'm guessing 9mm would likely be easier to come by than 38 Super. Or are you returning to the USA to enjoy your new pistol? Having never been there, I admit I'm clueless as to legalities and logistics of owning and shooting pistols in New Guinea.

Now days, both cartridges are boringly reliable in most well made pistols with ramped barrels. Within my humble experience, in unramped barrels like the factory Colts,etc., the 38S may be the more reliable. My DW 9mms have been full sized pistols, but both functioned reliably with any and all of the many types of 9mm ammo used. And FWIW, with factory ammo, the 38S may not be much, if any, more powerful than 9mm. If 9mm +P or +P+ are factored into the equation, the advantage often favors the 9mm. Ballistics charts, more often than not, quote 9mm ballistics from 4" barrels, and 38S from 5" barrels. That causes the 38S to appear superior to 9mm by a bigger margin than actually exists when both are tested in equal barrel lengths.

BTW, converting 9mm to 38S, or 38S to 9mm, is easily done. I've done Colts and Kimbers. Unless the 9mm uses one of those extra super loooong Colt type ejectors, which would need to be shorted or replaced going 9mm to 38S, ofttimes only a minor extractor adjustment is required. Going from 38S to 9mm in a Kimber I currently own, required a 9mm barrel and magazine. That's it. No other adjustments, modifications or parts changing whatsoever were required. Now, several hundred rounds later, there have been literally ZERO malfunctions in using a wide variety of 9mm ammo,i.e., RN, flat point, JHP, NATO, +P, +P+, with weights between 65 and 147 grains.......

[Joe in PNG]

I do most of my shooting in the USA, so that's not a factor.

And while the first 1911 will be a Dan Wesson Guardian, I will likely get a Colt Government model later in the same caliber.

[StraitR]

38 super is for people who live in countries that prohibit 9mm, aka South America.

ETA: It's also twice the cost of 9mm (ball), and quality SD loadings (as we define them here) are nonexistent.

[RevolverRob]

Defensive gun that will be shot a lot, and be used for games.

9mm.

You won't need to worry about reloading until the price of ammo really kicks back up. Unless you have a substantial stock of primers and powder lying around handy, I'd set the reloading idea on the shelf for a bit.

I'm seeing on ammoseek S&B 9mm in either 115 or 124 grain for <0.15/round, that's $150/1000

A Dillon 550 + Dies = ~$550 new (cheaper used, of course).
Berry's Plated 115-grain bullets are $0.076/bullet
Primers are running about $0.03/each
Let's just say you pick the powder you want and you work it out, it's around $0.02/round
Brass = Free because it's 9mm.

So, at this point to reload a single round of 9mm you're going to be 12.6 cents/round not counting the cost of your press and time. Let's just say you're saving ~3 cents/round be loading your own. To cover the cost of your press and dies you'll need to load 18,334 rounds of 9mm. If you're a high enough volume shooter, then you'll hit that number in a couple of years or less. Me? I'm not nearly high enough volume (nor unlikely to ever become that high volume), so I'd rather spend the cash on ammo. The $750 or so I'd spend acquiring the gear to reload 1000 rounds of 9mm out of the gate (press and all) can buy 5,000 rounds of S&B 9mm. Which is about 2.5 years of shooting for me.

Also, you're a freakin' hipster with your third gen smith and 1911 love. Damn, next thing you know, you'll be buying revolvers. Then you'll start calling yourself "RevolverJoe".

[Joe in PNG]

9mm.
So, at this point to reload a single round of 9mm you're going to be 12.6 cents/round not counting the cost of your press and time. Let's just say you're saving ~3 cents/round be loading your own. To cover the cost of your press and dies you'll need to load 18,334 rounds of 9mm. If you're a high enough volume shooter, then you'll hit that number in a couple of years or less. Me? I'm not nearly high enough volume (nor unlikely to ever become that high volume), so I'd rather spend the cash on ammo. The $750 or so I'd spend acquiring the gear to reload 1000 rounds of 9mm out of the gate (press and all) can buy 5,000 rounds of S&B 9mm. Which is about 2.5 years of shooting for me.

Yeah, 9mm wouldn't be a caliber I'd be interesting in reloading. Not really worth it.



Also, you're a freakin' hipster with your third gen smith and 1911 love. Damn, next thing you know, you'll be buying revolvers. Then you'll start calling yourself "RevolverJoe".
Have you not seen my revolver collection? I've already got a 10-6, a pre-Model 15, and a .38 S&W lemon squeezer.

34780

[TC215]

9mm and get a .38 Super barrel fitted.

One of my DW Guardians was a 9mm/.38, and was a lot of fun.

[Joe in PNG]

I'll be splitting the reloading gear with my B&L- but may just reload for my .38 Specials.
Or for my .38 S&W.

[Bucky]

38 super is for people who live in countries that prohibit 9mm, aka South America.

ETA: It's also twice the cost of 9mm (ball), and quality SD loadings (as we define them here) are nonexistent.

Hornady, Corbon, and even Sig mag a quality SD round. I’ve got a bunch of the Sig stuff.

[farscott]

The right answer is none of the above. Get 9x23 Winchester and have a 9x19 barrel fit to the same pistol. 9x23 allows you to use Winchester 9x23 brass for .357 Magnum-equivalent loads and .38 SuperComp brass for softer shooting stuff. You can avoid the semi-rimmed Super and have the longer 9x23 round which is really reliable in the 1911. My 9x23 only has bobbled when I was experimenting with loads and recoil springs.

And you can swap barrels, bushings, and recoil springs to shoot 9x19. Mine is even set up with fixed sights and I have loads for both chamberings that shoot POA/POI.

John Harrison did mine back in 2001, and it is a nice pistol.

[1986s4]

Defensive gun that will be shot a lot, and be used for games.

I bought my Colt super as a fun gun [I reload] and it became a game gun. Once it proved it's reliability I carried it for a time but it's to heavy IMO. As far as reloading goes you won't find .38 SA on the floor of the local range like you will 9mm. I had to buy mine to get started but now I have a rather good collection. I've loaded mild to wild, blown out a case head and learned a lot about reloading and 1911's in general.
Last weekend I used it in a 2 gun match under continuous rainfall and cold. I chose it over my Beretta M9 because it's my beater gun and it has some VZ gunner grips that hold crazy tight under any conditions. I treat it like a Glock with a little more lube.
I had a 9mm 1911 but it was unexciting to me. Stupid low recoil but it just didn't do it for me. The greater case capacity of the Super gives it a lot of flexibility. Armscore ammo is cheap at aprox. $14-15/50 and makes good cases for reloading.

IMO; 9mm if you don't want to worry about ammo. - 38 Super if you want to experiment with reloading. IMO the super has an edge in reliability too .

[Rex G]

Hmm, .38 Super, because of tradition/history, or 9mm, because of practicality for training ammo cost?

You forgot the “Both, of course,” poll choice. ;)

[sharps54]

Hmm, .38 Super, because of tradition/history, or 9mm, because of practicality for training ammo cost?

You forgot the “Both, of course,” poll choice. ;)
The cool thing is, as many have pointed out, you can actually do both with the same frame and slide provided you go with adjustable sights.

[Joe in PNG]

The more I think about it, the more the 9mm makes sense to me.

[olstyn]

Berry's Plated 115-grain bullets are $0.076/bullet
Primers are running about $0.03/each
Let's just say you pick the powder you want and you work it out, it's around $0.02/round
Brass = Free because it's 9mm.

My last case of Blue Bullets 125gr 9mm bullets worked out to < 6 cents/bullet, so it's actually more like 10 or 11 cents/round depending on powder choice, which makes the math more favorable than the example you laid out, but still, 9mm practice ammo *is* fairly cheap these days. That said, if you get into USPSA and/or IDPA with any seriousness, it doesn't take long at all to churn through enough rounds to pay off a press in basically any caliber.