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baddean
01-29-2019, 12:55 PM
I am working up loads for my Savage model 116 in .300 Win Mag.
It shoots factory Nosler 180gr E-Tip fairly well. I have enough once fired brass to start working up my own loads to tighten up the groups a bit.
My question pertains to whether I should be concerned about group size versus velocity/energy for hunting purposes.
Current base load info: Nosler case, Fed LRMP, 180gr E-tip. From there I'm experimenting with powder charge and OAL.
Hodgdon puts H4831SC at 67.8gr on the low end and 71.8gr on the high end. At the low end I get 1/2moa groups at 100yds at 2637 fps.
On the high end I get 3/4 moa groups at 100yds at 2855 fps. As I get near the top of the powder charge range the group POI climbs 1-2 MOA but stays together. Nosler factory 180gr E-tip ammo runs 2900fps (on my chrono).
OAL listed for .300wm max is 3.34. The factory ammo I'm using varies from 3.30-3.315. I'm experimenting at 3.327 which is giving me my best groups.
Don't ask how far off the lands. In this rifle, to get the OAL such that it seats the bullet near the lands the round wouldn't fit the magazine nor would it be secured well in the case. By my calculations I'm about .18 off the lands.
Anyway... groups or velocity/energy?
I'm not looking for one hole groups (would be nice) just minute of elk at 400 yds.
My wife thinks I'm being too anal. Well it is a belted magnum so I'm being pretty anal about the loads.
Thanks for any insight.

Shumba
01-29-2019, 08:49 PM
If you are not getting pressure indications at the high end I would say you are good to go with the top load and your best seating depth. .75 MOA is just dandy.
My Custom Shop 700 has a very long throat and I had to be at or beyond max indicated loads of 4831 or RL22 to get good accuracy. No pressure signs.
My Browning Safari is just the opposite: short throat and best results well below max.
It likes 180 Sciroccos and IMR4350.
HTH,
Shumba

baddean
01-29-2019, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the insight Shumba.
No pressure signs. In fact I expected the cases to stretch a bit but after 2 firings but they are still short of the trim length.
I really like these Nosler cases. I have a stash of Hornady cases that are also under trim length after 1 firing. The Remington and Federal cases I have all stretched beyond the trim length after the first firing. I probably won't use any of those.
My Savage likes these E-tips. Tried some Federal and Hornady 180grainers and had 3-4 moa groups at 200yds. Went to 180gr E-tips and the groups dropped to 1 moa at 200yds.
I think I'll stay at the top powder charge. Hunting in Colorado it wouldn't be a stretch to shoot elk at 400-450 (my last one was 210) and the velocity and energy would be beneficial.
I got a bullet back from the last elk that had hit a shoulder bone and it expanded perfectly. Started at 180gr and I got it back at 179.(a little bone damage)
On a side bar I run my Savage suppressed (Omega). I have found no difference in velocity or POI running the suppressor with these loads.
Thanks again

Hambo
01-30-2019, 05:47 AM
No pressure signs. In fact I expected the cases to stretch a bit but after 2 firings but they are still short of the trim length.
I really like these Nosler cases. I have a stash of Hornady cases that are also under trim length after 1 firing. The Remington and Federal cases I have all stretched beyond the trim length after the first firing. I probably won't use any of those.


To clarify, did the Remington and Federal cases stretch on the first firing after you trimmed them?

I need some pics or video of your rifle and can. I'm impressed that it doesn't change POI or velocity.

5pins
01-30-2019, 07:53 AM
The vitals size of an Elk is about 14 or so inches. If your load is doing .75 MOA at 100, and assuming the MOA size holds to 400 yards, then its only 3 inches at 400 yards. I would just stick with the load you have and practice shooting off the bench at distance.

okie john
01-30-2019, 08:41 AM
The vitals size of an Elk is about 14 or so inches. If your load is doing .75 MOA at 100, and assuming the MOA size holds to 400 yards, then its only 3 inches at 400 yards. I would just stick with the load you have and practice shooting off the bench at distance.

This. Your rifle and load are more than good to go. Now it's time to train for the hunt: work on cardio and long slow distance work, hit the gym for strength training, get your long-range zeros dialed in, and start shooting prone off of a backpack. Also shoot a bunch of offhand at 50 and 100 yards--you may see your elk in the timber.


Okie John

baddean
01-30-2019, 12:39 PM
To clarify, did the Remington and Federal cases stretch on the first firing after you trimmed them?

I need some pics or video of your rifle and can. I'm impressed that it doesn't change POI or velocity.

The Rem and Fed cases stretched after he first firing from the factory box. I have only deprimed and cleaned them. They haven't been reloaded, and at this point probably won't.
I'll get some pics of the rifle up. May be a while before I get video up.
My original test of suppressed vs. unsuppressed was using factory Nosler 180gr E-tip. Nothing scientific here, just seeing if there was a noticeable difference.
1st round unsup. produced 2895fps. 2nd shot was 2900fps. Cooled barrel before threading suppressor.
1st shot sup. was 2893fps. 2nd was 2913fps.
The four shots ave. 2900fps which is just what Nosler claims I should get from that factory load. I've got my scope zeroed at 3in high at 100yds using the factory ammo. That's right where the test rounds went at about 1.5moa.
I did the same test with my reloads and got similar results albeit at an ave. of 2855fps.

baddean
01-30-2019, 01:19 PM
Thanks Okie John and 5Pins. Good reminders.
I've obviously been a little vague about the purpose of the post.
I've got elk, mule deer and white tail under my belt over the years. I've hunted and hiked the same area of Colorado since the Eighties.
I've shot my Savage out to 930 yds using the factory Nosler ammo I hunt with. Since I had no dope at that range it took three shots to "walk" it in but connected on the fourth on 18in steel gong. I wouldn't even attempt that on an elk.
I've also been reloading for about 15 years. Many pistol and some other rifle calibers and shotshells.

What I haven't done is reload .300 wm belted ammo. I feel I'm being too picky about overthinking group vs downrange energy. Especially since I've got what appear to be good groups at factoryish velocities.
I appreciate everyone's feedback. I'll quit fretting, load 'em up and go shoot.

Okie, your post about shooting in the timber made me laugh because it reminded me of something that happened last year. I was wearing what I call my "pumpkin suit". Orange parka, hood, hat, you could see me from the moon. I'm in the timber leaning on a tree when a spike approaches me from behind and comes up to within sniffing distance. I'm thoroughly convinced that they can't see orange. I let him hang around hoping that something bigger would show. No luck.

Hambo
01-30-2019, 04:37 PM
The Rem and Fed cases stretched after he first firing from the factory box. I have only deprimed and cleaned them. They haven't been reloaded, and at this point probably won't.

That's pretty normal IME. I trim cases after the first firing and they're good for another 4-5x.

baddean
01-30-2019, 06:37 PM
That's pretty normal IME. I trim cases after the first firing and they're good for another 4-5x.

Thanks for that info. I'll probably use some of these to practice trimming since I haven't had to do that prior to these belted cases.

baddean
02-04-2019, 05:52 PM
Hambo,
Not up to StraitR photo standards.
Just a well used hunting rifle.
I don't hunt with the bipod attached just used it to pose the gun.
I guess I should take some pics at the range some time.

34883

34885

Hambo
02-05-2019, 07:04 AM
Nice, did the barrel come threaded? I also like that you paid more for the glass than the rifle.

baddean
02-05-2019, 11:26 AM
Nice, did the barrel come threaded? I also like that you paid more for the glass than the rifle.

No the barrel wasn't threaded. A local smith did that for me. He made a thread protector for it out of a piece an old Beowolf barrel. (He announced that he's retiring this year and I think I'm gonna cry).
He also cut an 11 degree crown in the process. The barrel diameter is so small at the very end that he had to cut the threads back on the barrel about 3/4 inch to make sure there was enough metal to work with. The barrel protrudes into the can about 1/4 inch. Doesn't seem to effect accuracy or velocity but, due to carbon build up, I have to stay on top of keeping the crown and threads clean during any extended range sessions and when I get home. Oiling the threads prior to attaching the can seems to help a lot.
I've got a lot more money tied up in glass than I do rifles. I don't understand shooters that go out and purchase a good rifle and then cheap out and duct tape a coke bottle to it.

spj
02-19-2019, 10:26 AM
Belted chambers are usually sloppy as they are usually head spacing on the belt. I always use a lee collet die and let the should keep moving forward until I can size off the shoulder. It usually takes several cycles, then bump the shoulder with a Redding body die. The 300 wm is an easy round to load for that likes a bunch of powders, usually 270 win powders work well as the expansion ratio is close. I would not hesitate to look at the Nosler ballistic tip 180 if you want a cheaper, effective round. It is like an x bullet with a dab of lead in the front. I buy in bulk off the shooters pro shop website. 10% Leo and vet discount as well. Favorite load for me is with R17. Just as fast with a bit less bump. Good luck!

baddean
02-22-2019, 06:33 PM
Thanks for that info SPJ.
I'm only using brass fired from my rifle and I set up my headspacing with a Wilson adjustable gauge adjusted for my rifle.
Seams to be working well.
I agree that .300wm is easy to load as long as one pays attention to detail.

spj
02-22-2019, 07:34 PM
Sounds like you are good to go! I usually try to bump only a couple thousands when I body size. I use the Redding shell holders to do this. Happy shooting.