Adding weight to H&K USP with LEM-Match Hybrid trigger?

[KevH]

I bought my buddy's old duty pistol last year which is a USP 45 that came as a Variant 1.

Not being able to leave anything alone, and disliking the feel of the decocker/safety lever, I sent it back to H&K to be converted into an LEM Match-Hybrid.

While the trigger pull feels amazingly smooth, it's just too light for social purposes. Is there an easy way to keep the smoothness, but add more weight to the pull?

[JonInWA]

I bought my buddy's old duty pistol last year which is a USP 45 that came as a Variant 1.

Not being able to leave anything alone, and disliking the feel of the decocker/safety lever, I sent it back to H&K to be converted into an LEM Match-Hybrid.

While the trigger pull feels amazingly smooth, it's just too light for social purposes. Is there an easy way to keep the smoothness, but add more weight to the pull?

First, I'm no expert, but what I would suggest is discussing with HK Customer Support and Too Sixy on the HK Pro forum (as well as with others here, such as GJM and Coyote41) the advisability of:

1. Replacing the Trigger Return/Rebound Spring that you currently have, which I'm presuming is the light 209266, with either the standard 214164 TRS or the heavy 219441 TRS, and/or

2. Query if what appears to to be the P30 specific newer medium-weight TRS 234773 would work in your USP. You might find this chart to be helpful:

https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/168700-spring-reference-chart-different-lem-variants.html

I recently on a concurrent LEM thread detailed out my process on tuning my P30L V1, transforming it into what I call the V 1.5 LEM, with the medium-weight TRS replacing the OEM standard-weight one.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?34374-P-series-LEM-%93difficulty%94-is-it-all-in-the-mind-A-very-in-depth-look-at-LEM


Best, Jon

[Exiledviking]

A heavier trigger return spring will add weight on the entire trigger pull. Part number is 219441 if I remember correctly.
Another option is the OE heavy LEM hammer spring, but it will only affect the "wall" as you hit the sear. PN 214695.
The OE heavy LEM firing pin block spring will increase the trigger pull as you get to last part of the trigger stroke by the "wall". PN 209962.

If you're looking for an easy job, do the hammer spring if you have it. If you have the heavy LEM trigger return spring and the tool, I'd recommend trying that too.

On my FS USP9 pistols (light LEM hybrid) and P2000 after converting them to light LEM I went back to the heavy hammer spring as they were too light and it was the easiest to do. I picked up a P2000sk with the factory LEM and it's too heavy BUT I do like the feel of the heavy TRS so I'll just be replacing the firing pin block spring in it

I'll more than likely put the OE heavy LEM trigger return spring back in the FS P2000 as it is too light currently and I like the feel of the heavier TRS.

Check out the 2 excellent posts (149 and 152) by the gentleman that posted above me in the thread he linked.

[JonInWA]

Yeah, what he said! (Oh wait-a lot of that that refers to what I said....LOL)

Best, Jon

[KevH]

What would adding a heavier hammer spring do?

[Exiledviking]

What would adding a heavier hammer spring do?Where do you want to add weight? The overall trigger pull or at the wall?

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[KevH]

I think overall

[Exiledviking]

I think overallThen the LEM trigger return spring is what you want to replace. PN 219441.
If you are going to do it yourself I HIGHLY recommend buying the special modified plier tool that HKParts sells.

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[Exiledviking]

Then the LEM trigger return spring is what you want to replace. PN 219441.
If you are going to do it yourself I HIGHLY recommend buying the special modified plier tool that HKParts sells.

Sent from my SAMSUNG using TapatalkOops. I figure I had better clarify. That should say "Then the LEM trigger return spring is what you want to install."

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[KevH]

So according to Too Sixy on HKPro believes that when I had the LEM-Match Hybrid trigger done by H&K they used Light LEM springs which is their standard practice.

I'm going to replace the TRS with 219441 (Heavy) which should essentially make the gun the TLG setup.

Let's see how that works out in a USP 45 with a Match Trigger.

[JonInWA]

Out of curiosity, did you check with HK/TooSixy to see if the 234773 medium-strength TRS would work?

My assumption is that the 219441 will essentially give you V2 LEM (which you might like); if the 234773 is an option, you'll be in the middle (essentially V1.5)-but my only experience/application is with my P30L, and there might be internal differences that could create different results with a USP/USP 45, or they may be fundamentally incompatible. Pay close attention to TooSixy's comments on the spring chart matrix, and then ask him and/or HK specifically regarding applications with your USP.

You also might want to go back to the pistol-training archives, and read/re-read Todd's detailed discussions regarding both his P30 and HK45 tests, and then re-look TooSixy's chart matrix. Todd did a good job in describing his results and choices each week of the respective tests. They're a bit time consuming, but well worth a read.

Best, Jon

[KevH]

I remember shooting Todd's P30 when he was out here putting on a class (would have been 2010 since I was still carrying a Springfield Pro).

I liked the way his trigger felt. I realize I'm shooting a different beast with the USP, but if I can make it close to that I will.

[Exiledviking]

Out of curiosity, did you check with HK/TooSixy to see if the 234773 medium-strength TRS would work?

My assumption is that the 219441 will essentially give you V2 LEM (which you might like); if the 234773 is an option, you'll be in the middle (essentially V1.5)-but my only experience/application is with my P30L, and there might be internal differences that could create different results with a USP/USP 45, or they may be fundamentally incompatible. Pay close attention to TooSixy's comments on the spring chart matrix, and then ask him and/or HK specifically regarding applications with your USP.

You also might want to go back to the pistol-training archives, and read/re-read Todd's detailed discussions regarding both his P30 and HK45 tests, and then re-look TooSixy's chart matrix. Todd did a good job in describing his results and choices each week of the respective tests. They're a bit time consuming, but well worth a read.

Best, JonUnfortunately the 234773 is only applicable to the P30 series according to the 2 excellent charts by TooSixy.

There are only 3 TRS for the USP;

214164 V1 DA/SA,

209266 for the light LEM,

and the 219441 heavy LEM used for the factory LEM and the TGS and V4.

I use the 214164 in my USP pistols since that's what is what they came with as V1 pistols. According to TooSixy the 209266 is slightly stronger than the 214164 V1 DA/SA spring and will help if one experiences a soft trigger return with the V1 spring after converting.

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[JonInWA]

I figured that might be the case, but just wanted to raise the question in case there was compatibility between the USP and P30 for that medium weight TRS. Thanks for laying the TRS alternatives for the USP out nicely for the OP.

Whether I like it or not, I've gotten WAY more knowledgeable about LEM and fine-tuning it than I ever expected...but it's a good thing, and my journey has been immeasurably aided by input from here, HK Pro, and HK themselves. And it's a great action alternative, and at least for me our discussions here have made it better in my P30L.

Best, Jon

[Leroy]

There is a match TRS that is below the light TRS. I have one somewhere, I disliked it because of the light reset weight. I thought the light LEM setup was okay, probably around 4-5 pound trigger. A medium TRS would raise that probably 1 pound.

[RevolverRob]

Necrothread Bump KevH did you end up doing the heavy TRS and do you like it?

[KevH]

Necrothread Bump KevH did you end up doing the heavy TRS and do you like it?

I did and I didn't care for it.

I changed the Firing Pin Block Spring to the heavier one and it gave me what I wanted which was a light take-up with a crisper wall.

[jh9]

I did and I didn't care for it.

I changed the Firing Pin Block Spring to the heavier one and it gave me what I wanted which was a light take-up with a crisper wall.

On a similar note, what if someone wanted the exact opposite of that. To have the wall as imperceptible as possible. As close to a non-stacking, light double-action-only revolver trigger as attainable. What else do you do other than go to a 12# hammer spring and light firing pin block spring? Nickel sear spring? A hojillion dollar check written to Grayguns with some nickel teflon fcg parts?

Honestly the light firing pin block spring made a huge difference. I'm just wondering what's possible.

[KevH]

On a similar note, what if someone wanted the exact opposite of that. To have the wall as imperceptible as possible. As close to a non-stacking, light double-action-only revolver trigger as attainable. What else do you do other than go to a 12# hammer spring and light firing pin block spring? Nickel sear spring? A hojillion dollar check written to Grayguns with some nickel teflon fcg parts?

Honestly the light firing pin block spring made a huge difference. I'm just wondering what's possible.

You're describing the LEM Match Hybrid as installed by H&K in my gun. It was just a super super light DA only pull with no perceptible wall.

Nice trigger, but I've come to prefer the standard LEM as the Hybrid Match is just too light for my taste.

[OlongJohnson]

You're describing the LEM Match Hybrid as installed by H&K in my gun. It was just a super super light DA only pull with no perceptible wall.

Nice trigger, but I've come to prefer the standard LEM as the Hybrid Match is just too light for my taste.

There are a few different trigger springs you can try. You might just want an in-between spring, not the light one, not the heavy one. It's easy to swap, and its effect is uniform throughout the stroke. It has no stages and doesn't lead to any stacking.

[Exiledviking]

On a similar note, what if someone wanted the exact opposite of that. To have the wall as imperceptible as possible. As close to a non-stacking, light double-action-only revolver trigger as attainable. What else do you do other than go to a 12# hammer spring and light firing pin block spring? Nickel sear spring? A hojillion dollar check written to Grayguns with some nickel teflon fcg parts?

Honestly the light firing pin block spring made a huge difference. I'm just wondering what's possible.Which HK are you working on?
There are different springs available depending upon which HK.

As recommended above, for what you're looking for I'd go with a medium trigger spring, the nickel coated sear spring, the light firing pin safety spring and the regular hammer (blue?) spring (not the LEM specific HS).

[jh9]

Which HK are you working on?
There are different springs available depending upon which HK.

As recommended above, for what you're looking for I'd go with a medium trigger spring, the nickel coated sear spring, the light firing pin safety spring and the regular hammer (blue?) spring (not the LEM specific HS).

2x P2000s (V2). Don't know offhand which trigger or hammer spring is stock in that configuration. They both have the light firing pin block spring, and that made a noticeable difference and getting rid of the wall.

One has the hkparts / lazy wolf 12# mainspring, which also helped. Still need to test it with CCI primers. Is this the blue spring you're talking about: https://hkparts.net/product/hammer-spring-for-usp-hk45-p30-p2000-12-lb-p1284.htm/. Sounds like that and the nickel sear spring is the ticket.

[Exiledviking]

2x P2000s (V2). Don't know offhand which trigger or hammer spring is stock in that configuration. They both have the light firing pin block spring, and that made a noticeable difference and getting rid of the wall.

One has the hkparts / lazy wolf 12# mainspring, which also helped. Still need to test it with CCI primers. Is this the blue spring you're talking about: https://hkparts.net/product/hammer-spring-for-usp-hk45-p30-p2000-12-lb-p1284.htm/. Sounds like that and the nickel sear spring is the ticket.Yes, try the 214300 mainspring that you had linked. And the nickel coated sear spring. In my experience the heavier TRS, when used with the above components, gives the type of trigger pull I believe you're looking for. Since you're ordering these parts, you might want to order the lighter trigger return spring 209266 to try as well.

The V2 comes stock with the heavier trigger return spring (219441) and the heavier mainspring (214695).

Generally, if you order the parts from HK USA you'll pay less than you will from HK Parts.