Instructor/Class for Technical Improvements?

[CalAlumnus]

Hey--I'm in Central Texas, and looking for a class to take when I have a few free weeks in March. Specifically, I'm looking for an "advanced fundamentals" pistol class... I want to dive deep on the mechanics of draw, grip, trigger press, reload, and so on, in a very detailed way. I'm open to traveling a bit for the right class.

As for where I'm at currently... I'm IDPA SS, so I'm in the "basically competent" category. Lots of room to improve.

Do any instructors/classes come to mind for this sort of instruction?

[Duces Tecum]

*** Tactical Performance Center https://www.tacticalperformancecenter.com/ (Name redacted) twice wrote that this is the best technical training he’s ever been exposed to. This was stated after his Robbie Leathem classes. St. George, Utah.

*** Gabe White http://www.gabewhitetraining.com/ Only man to run a perfect 125 / 125 score at Rogers Shooting School from concealment. Sets extraordinarily high goals for speed and accuracy and works to achieve them. A Traveling Man.

[HopetonBrown]

Should be close to you. Owner is a GM and has many of the top instructors teaching at his facility.

https://www.krtraining.com/index.html

[GuanoLoco]

*** Tactical Performance Center https://www.tacticalperformancecenter.com/ (Name redacted) twice wrote that this is the best technical training he’s ever been exposed to. This was stated after his Robbie Leathem classes. St. George, Utah.

*** Gabe White http://www.gabewhitetraining.com/ Only man to run a perfect 125 / 125 score at Rogers Shooting School from concealment. Sets extraordinarily high goals for speed and accuracy and works to achieve them. A Traveling Man.

While I am a big Gabe White fan, 2X Alumnus and would easily recommend him as an instructor, I don't think his focus is what OP is asking for.

[David S.]

Also check out Jeff Gonzales at Trident Conepts in Austin

[RJ]

A possible suggestion, if you are in central Texas (which is pretty big, so not sure this makes sense) is to contact the owners of this company to see if they might offer specific, targeted private instruction by the hour:

http://hardwiredtacticalshooting.com/

[SeriousStudent]

A possible suggestion, if you are in central Texas (which is pretty big, so not sure this makes sense) is to contact the owners of this company to see if they might offer specific, targeted private instruction by the hour:

http://hardwiredtacticalshooting.com/

I believe Wayne and Darryl do offer private instruction. Wayne is at SHOT right now, though.

Wayne Dobbs Dagga Boy

Tom Givens is doing his Intensive Pistol class in Lincoln TX in late April. Not sure if that is out of your time window.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/intensive-pistol-skills-texas-tickets-50644162052

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I believe Wayne and Darryl do offer private instruction. Wayne is at SHOT right now, though.

Wayne Dobbs Dagga Boy

Tom Givens is doing his Intensive Pistol class in Lincoln TX in late April. Not sure if that is out of your time window.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/intensive-pistol-skills-texas-tickets-50644162052

If Wayne or DB have the time between their day jobs to offer private instruction this would be my answer as well.

You mention being open to some travel, well they do have a top flight facility to offer their guidance that is next door to the Dallas Pistol Club in Carrollton Tx, contact one or both of them & call it good.

[perlslacker]

Tulsa Defensive Shooting Academy is teaching their Advanced Pistol 1 class in March: http://tdsa.us/calendar.php That class is all about refinement of grip, trigger control, gun handling, etc.

I wish there were somewhere comparable that was closer (I'm in DFW now) but other than Tiger Valley in Waco I haven't heard of any shooting schools here that teach what looks like a comparable class.

[BigD]

Should be close to you. Owner is a GM and has many of the top instructors teaching at his facility.

https://www.krtraining.com/index.html

https://www.krtraining.com/newinst/karlbio.html

he has an impressive list of accomplishments and training.

[jlw]

I highly recommended Wayne and Bolke. I also recommend KR Training.

I’ll be teaching a one day pistol class at KR in June. I don’t have a link yet.

[AMC]

*** Tactical Performance Center https://www.tacticalperformancecenter.com/ (Name redacted) twice wrote that this is the best technical training he’s ever been exposed to. This was stated after his Robbie Leathem classes. St. George, Utah.

*** Gabe White http://www.gabewhitetraining.com/ Only man to run a perfect 125 / 125 score at Rogers Shooting School from concealment. Sets extraordinarily high goals for speed and accuracy and works to achieve them. A Traveling Man.

This.

[AMC]

Should be close to you. Owner is a GM and has many of the top instructors teaching at his facility.

https://www.krtraining.com/index.html

And this.

[TheNewbie]

Bill Davison from Tac Pro Shooting Center. Bill was British Special Forces (Royal Marine before entering the SBS) and a private contractor or body guard.

It's been a decade since I have met him, but he was rather interesting to say the least. His range was awesome at the time, and I am sure it still is.


https://www.tacproshootingcenter.com/index.html


Here is an article about him and his training.


http://www.tacproshootingcenter.com/GunWeek.html

[kobuksonhwacha]

I don't know how close this is to you, OP, but Bruce Grey's OpSpec cadre is bringing their Practical Fundamentals class to San Antonio in March: https://opspectraining.com/product/practical-fundamentals-201903-san-antonio/ I'm in almost exactly your same boat looking to improve almost exactly the same things, and will be taking this course next month. YMMV.

[CalAlumnus]

*** Tactical Performance Center https://www.tacticalperformancecenter.com/ (Name redacted) twice wrote that this is the best technical training he’s ever been exposed to. This was stated after his Robbie Leathem classes. St. George, Utah.

I actually took the TPC Handgun Mastery course last year, during one of their California visits. Candidly, I was a bit disappointed in it. They split the students into two groups, with me placed in the more advanced group. We had the same instructors for 2.5 of the 3 days, and then they swapped. The advanced group seemed to focus mostly on learning drills... Skills and techniques were described, but not effectively taught, if that makes sense.

I thought the instructors with the beginner group were significantly better. After the swap, one immediately offered some detailed tweaks to my stance and grip that was very helpful. That’s the sort of instruction I was looking for. In hindsight I wish I would have been in the beginner group.

TPC seemed to know that the advanced group hadn’t gone terribly well. They took down some times at the beginning of the class as baselines and said we’d compare at the end... But then never did.

Going forward, I’ll be reluctant to sign up for a “school” class without knowing exactly who the instructors will be.

[HopetonBrown]

I don't know how close this is to you, OP, but Bruce Grey's OpSpec cadre is bringing their Practical Fundamentals class to San Antonio in March




Going forward, I’ll be reluctant to sign up for a “school” class without knowing exactly who the instructors will be.

I took an OpSpec course around 4 years ago.

When Bruce Gray was teaching, the material was excellent. Whenever he'd liken a concept to "sharpening razor blades with your mind" that meant some real insight was coming.

But a couple of times he'd wander off, presumably to chat with range staff, and we were left with AIs.

AI #1 was a Boston SWAT cop. He demo'd the draw process and said to get on the trigger as soon as you cleared leather. Huh?

AI #2 was an Oakland Shool District cop who demo'd the reload. His reload included manually stripping the empty mag with the support hand and tossing it 10-20'. When I asked why, he said because he cut his teeth on Gen 1 Glocks whose mags don't drop free. I wondered what his reload would be like if he cut his teeth on revolvers.

Anyway, I'm sure they thought I was an asshole because of my indignation.

[CalAlumnus]

When Bruce Gray was teaching, the material was excellent. Whenever he'd liken a concept to "sharpening razor blades with your mind" that meant some real insight was coming.

But a couple of times he'd wander off, presumably to chat with range staff, and we were left with AIs.


Ugh. Practical Fundamentals sounded like what I was looking for, but this is a concern. Plus, the class allows up to 24 students, which is fairly large.

KR might be good, but his class curricula don’t seem to align well with what I’m hoping to gain (they’re either very introductory and targeted at new shooters, or more focused on tactics and defense). I may end up doing private training, which seems wasteful.

[HCM]

I don't know how close this is to you, OP, but Bruce Grey's OpSpec cadre is bringing their Practical Fundamentals class to San Antonio in March: https://opspectraining.com/product/practical-fundamentals-201903-san-antonio/ I'm in almost exactly your same boat looking to improve almost exactly the same things, and will be taking this course next month. YMMV.

I took this course last time they came to San Antonio in 2014. I’ll be taking it agin if I can. Highly recommended.

[jlw]

The two instructors listed for the San Antonio Op Spec class are HR Hawkins and Jerry Jones. I took their Applied Fundamentals class this past November, and it was good to go.

[HCM]

The two instructors listed for the San Antonio Op Spec class are HR Hawkins and Jerry Jones. I took their Applied Fundamentals class this past November, and it was good to go.

Bruce gray and Jerry Jones did the last class I attended. I don’t know Hawkins but JJ is good to go.

It is also worth noting practical fundamentals is a pure technical skills class. It is not and does not try to be anything else.

[GJM]

I have been lucky enough to train with many awesome instructors, like Bill Rogers, Rob Leatham, Manny Bragg, JJ, Gabe and many more. Each has taught me a bunch of things.

What differentiates Tactical Performance Center and their Handgun Mastery class is their deep dive into the fundamentals of stance, grip, trigger and their Reactive Shooting Cycle. I have made more technical shooting gains in the last year than in any year I can remember, and I believe it is from taking Handgun Mastery twice at TPC and using what I learned to improve the fundamentals of my stance and grip. My wife is on a roll too, and feels the same as me.

Each instructor has a specialty, and TPC’s specially is stance, grip and their system around it.

[GJM]

I actually took the TPC Handgun Mastery course last year, during one of their California visits. Candidly, I was a bit disappointed in it. They split the students into two groups, with me placed in the more advanced group. We had the same instructors for 2.5 of the 3 days, and then they swapped. The advanced group seemed to focus mostly on learning drills... Skills and techniques were described, but not effectively taught, if that makes sense.

I thought the instructors with the beginner group were significantly better. After the swap, one immediately offered some detailed tweaks to my stance and grip that was very helpful. That’s the sort of instruction I was looking for. In hindsight I wish I would have been in the beginner group.

TPC seemed to know that the advanced group hadn’t gone terribly well. They took down some times at the beginning of the class as baselines and said we’d compare at the end... But then never did.

Going forward, I’ll be reluctant to sign up for a “school” class without knowing exactly who the instructors will be.

I am not sure how to reconcile your experience in CA with what I have learned in Utah. Utah is TPC’s base, and the only place I have trained with them at.

[CalAlumnus]

I am not sure how to reconcile your experience in CA with what I have learned in Utah. Utah is TPC’s base, and the only place I have trained with them at.

Yes, part of the problem may have been taking it in CA and not Utah. This was their first time using the range and it seemed to be a bit of a learning experience (they said as much). They also left to drive back to Utah around noon on Day 3, so it wasn’t really a 3-day class. Not sure if that’s typical.

[ST911]

It's not TX specific, but I would add Dave Harrington to the list as well. High quantity, high quality trigger and sight technicals.

[HCM]

I'll add PF-member Dr. No as a recommendation. He is a full time LEO in the Austin area and teaches (taught ?) a few classes each year at KR training.

Dr. No

[GJM]

Yes, part of the problem may have been taking it in CA and not Utah. This was their first time using the range and it seemed to be a bit of a learning experience (they said as much). They also left to drive back to Utah around noon on Day 3, so it wasn’t really a 3-day class. Not sure if that’s typical.

I have been in touch with Ken Nelson, and he is concerned and wants to make it right. Sent you a PM, so get me your info and I will get you in touch with Ken.

[RJ]

It's not TX specific, but I would add Dave Harrington to the list as well. High quantity, high quality trigger and sight technicals.

I’ve watched Mr. Harrington shoot a couple times at my local USPSA venue here in Tampa. I wasn’t sure if he did individual instruction, but if so I sure will follow up on this later in 2019. Thanks for the reminder.


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[Dr. No]

I'll add PF-member Dr. No as a recommendation. He is a full time LEO in the Austin area and teaches (taught ?) a few classes each year at KR training.

Dr. No

Thanks bubba. I've taken a step back from teaching these days so I can focus on my career(s) but have been known to pop in to KR Training from time to time. I have done a few private lessons here and there. That being said, there are a wealth of instructors around the austin area.

I'd also throw out Black Tree Ranch - there are some great instructors there and Clark is one hell of a shot.

I'd also check into Ben Stoeger when he comes in to town at KR. He usually does a two day class that's second to none.

[Chance]

Specifically, I'm looking for an "advanced fundamentals" pistol class... I want to dive deep on the mechanics of draw, grip, trigger press, reload, and so on, in a very detailed way.

No civilian-accessible trainer does that better than John McPhee (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28998-John-McPhee-Launches-Gunfighter-U-Subscription-Service). Looks like he's in Texas (https://gunfighteru.com/classes/texas/) in March, but even if you can't make one of his classes, look into his video analysis service.

[CalAlumnus]

I have been in touch with Ken Nelson, and he is concerned and wants to make it right. Sent you a PM, so get me your info and I will get you in touch with Ken.

Yes, indeed, Ken via GJM has offered to make it right.

My goal with my posts about TPC wasn’t to make a negative review, but to report on my experience with a prior class to inform my choice of a future class. As such, I tried to edit my prior posts after GJM’s work, but it seems that’s not an option. I appreciate GJM reaching out to Ken, and I appreciate Ken’s offer.

[GJM]

Yes, indeed, Ken via GJM has offered to make it right.

My goal with my posts about TPC wasn’t to make a negative review, but to report on my experience with a prior class to inform my choice of a future class. As such, I tried to edit my prior posts after GJM’s work, but it seems that’s not an option. I appreciate GJM reaching out to Ken, and I appreciate Ken’s offer.

All well received by Ken and TPC. Not every student is going to have a great experience at every class, but I appreciate Ken wanting to make it right. From speaking with him over the last year, I know TPC’s goal is to build a relationship with each student, and keep that relationship as they progress in skill development. TPC has reorganized Handgun Mastery to have different levels, so there is a natural progression.

[BigD]

Yes, indeed, Ken via GJM has offered to make it right.

My goal with my posts about TPC wasn’t to make a negative review, but to report on my experience with a prior class to inform my choice of a future class. As such, I tried to edit my prior posts after GJM’s work, but it seems that’s not an option. I appreciate GJM reaching out to Ken, and I appreciate Ken’s offer.

I don't speak for everyone, but I seen no reason to edit your post. It didn't read as if you were vindictive or had an axe to grind. (In fact, I'd think less of someone that took down his review based on pressure or a company promising to 'make it right.')

Good on TPC to want to make up for your poor experience. However, that doesn't erase the fact that you spent money and time to take a class that didn't meet your expectations. Maybe others that took that same class were happy or maybe they weren't, but one would assume that without GJM intervening, TPC isn't reaching out to each of them to offer refunds or make up classes.

[CalAlumnus]

I don't speak for everyone, but I seen no reason to edit your post. It didn't read as if you were vindictive or had an axe to grind. (In fact, I'd think less of someone that took down his review based on pressure or a company promising to 'make it right.')

Good on TPC to want to make up for your poor experience. However, that doesn't erase the fact that you spent money and time to take a class that didn't meet your expectations. Maybe others that took that same class were happy or maybe they weren't, but one would assume that without GJM intervening, TPC isn't reaching out to each of them to offer refunds or make up classes.

It’s a fair point, and to be clear, no one even suggested changing my comments.

My impulse to edit my posts was that, on reflection, I thought my experience may have been an outlier, and it would be unfair for an outlier experience to be posted in perpetuity.

[Jackdog]

I'm hosting Paul Sharp and William Aprill on 27 & 28 April for their Pistol Intensive Weekend. It will cover a lot of what you are looking for.
More info:https://www.facebook.com/events/343692576400362/

And I just posted it in the training section.