Pistol course holster advice. To paddle or not to paddle?

[HammerStriker]

I'm taking my second pistol class soon an am in need of a new OWB holster for my M&P 2.0 Compact. I'm not sure if I should go with a belt or paddle holster? I'm thinking of going with the Vedder ProDraw Paddle holster, but am hesitating because I've never used a paddle holster before. What would you guys recommend for a pistol training class, belt loops or paddle?

Thank you,

Tom

[sharps54]

I greatly prefer belt loops. The only reason for a paddle is to take the holster on and off easily.

[JSGlock34]

Belt loops. Besides the superior retention offered by a belt loop, I've broken paddle holsters before when shooting from unconventional positions.

For more of a concealment style OWB (which is probably a better match for a M&P Compact), my old go-to would've been the Raven Concealment Systems Phantom, but they've become scarce, and I don't think their Perun (which I often recommend to new Glock shooters as first holster) is available yet for the M&P.

These days I'd suggest JM Custom Kydex OWB2 to fill this role.

[HammerStriker]

Thank you! Do you guys recommend a 10 degree forward cant or straight drop?

[JSGlock34]

Depends on a number of things, like where you like to put the pistol on the belt. I sometimes carry a OWB just forward of my hip, with a closed front garment, so prefer a straight drop. The more a holster drifts back behind the hip, the more I like to add some cant.

[Cookie Monster]

Belt! The more towards 4 o’clock the more cant. I like 15 but you only really know by doing it.

Classes are for learning new things and getting feedback, test out everything before.

[HammerStriker]

Ok, going with belt loop. The Custom Kydex OWB 2 looks like a NICE holster. I have the option of choosing a straight drop or 10 degree cant, not sure which to go with. Also, don't know what to select for "guard": non, mid, or full? Any advice or sharing of preferences is very much appreciated. I'll likely only use this holster for classes, not for actual CCW/daily carry.

[Artemas2]

Thank you! Do you guys recommend a 10 degree forward cant or straight drop?

Depends on the purpose of the holster and your preference of placement on your body. 3-3:30 is ideal for 0 degrees, any further back is where the 10 degrees shine.

10 degree can be helpful for OWB CONCEALMENT. Particular on longer slide lengths (full to long) or with shorter garments.

If you are looking for a Range/game holster, I have found 0s to be more consistent on finding the front sight and slightly faster (the later is debatable). 0s can conceal, but you may need and a slightly longer shirt/jacket if that is a requirement.


Stay away from paddles, I have witnessed many draw guns come out with a holster still on them.

EDIT:

Long guards. If you run a tucked shirt, the guard will help prevent said shirt from getting into your re holster path.It also keeps sweat off if don't use a tucked shirt. You or often the holster maker can trim it later if you don't like it.

Mid guards allow you to get your thumb in place easier on the initial grip at the holster.

[JSGlock34]

From what you've stated, I'd recommend a mid-guard, 0 degree cant, OWB2. My only full guards are for IWB holsters.

[HammerStriker]

Alright dudes. Thanks to everyone's input, I've narrowed it down to JM Custom Kydex OWB2 (belt loops) with no cant. My last sticking point is the sweat guard. The thought of the guard keeping my clothes out of the holster sounds good to me. I'm debating between mid/full guard or no guard, not sure what to select here. :(

Keep the input coming, it is very helpful...

[41magfan]

As for sweat guards, I subscribe to the notion that you can always remove material, but you can't put it back. I've modded them myself with a rotary tool without any drama.

[krax]

Agreed. Full sweat guard.

As for holsters for classes, I understand the desire for quick on/off if you think you'll be leaving the range for lunch and whatnot. If that's the case, I always recommend an inner/outer belt system over a paddle holster. It's a pretty good combination of convenience and security with the added benefit of also having quick on/off of your mag pouches.

All that being said, if the class is oriented towards self-defense, and you're a fairly new shooter, why not get free reps from your CCW setup?

[HopetonBrown]

I've taken a lot of classes with JM Custom Kydex's OWB 2 in 092 thickness with 0 cant and full sweatguard.

The first time I saw a JMCK was on Ken Hackathorn in 2013.

[HammerStriker]

Agreed. Full sweat guard.

As for holsters for classes, I understand the desire for quick on/off if you think you'll be leaving the range for lunch and whatnot. If that's the case, I always recommend an inner/outer belt system over a paddle holster. It's a pretty good combination of convenience and security with the added benefit of also having quick on/off of your mag pouches.

All that being said, if the class is oriented towards self-defense, and you're a fairly new shooter, why not get free reps from your CCW setup?

I live in a county in CA where it is darn near impossible to get a CCW permit, so my handguns hang out in a safe and at the range.

[HammerStriker]

I've taken a lot of classes with JM Custom Kydex's OWB 2 in 092 thickness with 0 cant and full sweatguard.

The first time I saw a JMCK was on Ken Hackathorn in 2013.

Do you recommend the holster? I'm guessing you must be pleased with it if your are using it in multiple classes?

[HopetonBrown]

Do you recommend the holster? I'm guessing you must be pleased with it if your are using it in multiple classes?I live in San Francisco so...

Yeah, it's a great holster. I also use a JMCK OWB1 for IDPA.

The full sweatguard might be a tiny bit slower but helps keep your shirt out of the holster mouth.

[HammerStriker]

I live in San Francisco so...

Yeah, it's a great holster. I also use a JMCK OWB1 for IDPA.

The full sweatguard might be a tiny bit slower but helps keep your shirt out of the holster mouth.

Appreciate the feedback. What has turnaround time been like for you? The site says 4-6 wks, I'm going to need this thing on in exactly 4 wks for the class. Do these usually ship sooner or within the 4-6wks?

[HopetonBrown]

I ordered mine back in the day when turnaround time was something like 12 to 16 weeks.

[David S.]

I bet you can get a Comp Tac International on Amazon Prime. That will come with a belt loop, paddle and some adjustability.

I’m happy with mine

[revchuck38]

I’m on my phone so this’ll be short. +1 on OWB 2 with full guard, I’m wearing one right now. See if your gun is on his “short wait” (I forget what it’s called on his website). If not, I’d go with a Comp-Tac of some description that you can get now, and order the OWB2 for later.

[FNFAN]

Stay away from paddles, I have witnessed many draw guns come out with a holster still on them.

Ha! Happened today at an IDPA match. Was the RSO's turn to shoot, he drew and out came the holster. He recovered nicely, but for anything other than a range-only holster they're awful.

[oljames3]

I agree with the consensus the belt loop/slide is better than paddle.

We live in Texas. One of my sons carries an M&P M2.0 Compact 9mm. He uses a Bravo Concealment IWB with a belt clip. My father carries his OWB in a Safariland 7TS ALS with belt clip. I carry my 5 inch M&P M2.0 openly in a Safariland 7TS ALS with Guard and QLS. The QLS allows me to quickly and easily remove my holstered pistol from my belt. My father and son find their belt clips easy to remove.

If easy removal is a concern, you have several options.

[Tony Mayer]

Appreciate the feedback. What has turnaround time been like for you? The site says 4-6 wks, I'm going to need this thing on in exactly 4 wks for the class. Do these usually ship sooner or within the 4-6wks?

Let me know if I can answer any specific questions for you. The OWB2 is a fantastic holster and is my favorite. Are lead times are accurate, and we are running right at about 5 weeks right now. We may add the 2.0 to quick ship, however I am not promising anything. Thanks

[ssb]

Not to slight JMCK's excellent work, but I think a Safariland 7TS is a high-quality -- and inexpensive -- right now option (Amazon) if concealment isn't a concern. I'm a big fan of the 537 GLS pancake model if OWB concealment is needed and use that holster daily at work. Both are in the $40 range.

[pangloss]

Given the time constraints, I would check HolsterOps and see if there is a Safariland model that looks good to you. I like the 7377 ALS for a field holster, but retention is probably not optimal for a class. Regardless there are lots of choices. If you order on Monday, the holster will probably ship the next day.

Also, definitely check out the Gideon by Dale Fricke. I really like this holster. I think his lead time is about time is about two weeks.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

[TGS]

I like the 7377 ALS for a field holster, but retention is probably not optimal for a class.

Can you further explain?

[pangloss]

Can you further explain?

Sure. I probably should have included some qualifiers in my previous response. I'm not LEO or military, so I only carry in my capacity as a private citizen. I usually carry a Glock 19/26 AIWB, though sometimes I pocket carry a G43 or J-frame.

Regarding the 7377 7TS ALS (LINK (https://holsterops.com/products/safariland-model-7377-7ts-als-belt-loop-holster)) as a field holster:
I really like having some form of retention when I'm out in the woods. I've never lost a pistol, but I feel better knowing that the pistol is locked into the holster. Last year a friend wounded a deer at last light. We ended up blood trailing the deer at night in the rain and having to climb up and down the sides of a pretty steep gulley. I wasn't worried about losing the pistol. OWB at ~3:30 works better on me than AIWB for this sort of physical activity. In the past I've used a Bianchi UM84 with a flap. It does a great job of protecting the pistol but holds on to dirt and moisture.

Regarding retention being not optimal for a class:
I definitely should have qualified this. I don't use a retention holster for EDC (distinct from field carry), so there's little need for me to train from a retention holster. My main training goal is to get my pistol out quickly and get a couple of good hits on target. Because I carry concealed in public, this goal takes priority over defending against a gun grab. AIWB leaves me with less to think about (hands closer to the gun, gun generally more protected), so I can meet that goal faster than carrying IWB, OWB, or OWB with retention.

To add some context about my field carry, all of my hunting is within a mile or two of where I grew up and where my parents still live. We're on good terms with all the neighbors and everyone generally gets along well. I perceive the chances of me needing to use a handgun defensively while hunting as being much much lower then when not hunting. If I hunted on public land, my risk assessment would be different. (When I'm hiking/camping on public land, I use a Hill People kit bag when I have my pack on and then change to AIWB when we make camp.) If I were LEO, I speculate that I would use my duty holster for most (all?) classes.

To ramble on a little more, I recently bought a HK P30 v3 and ordered a 7377 to use until I decide whether or not I want to spend money on good kydex for the P30. Today my draws to hits on an 8" plate at ~8 yards were about 1.6 to 1.8 seconds. My best for the day was 1.50 seconds. Most of the time, the retention doesn't seem to slow me down, but the few times I missed hitting the release lever, it really added to my time. For comparison, when shooting a Glock from AIWB, I'm usually in the 1.3 to 1.5 range with my best time ever being 1.18 seconds. I don't think I've ever timed myself with my Glock from the 7377, but I should do that for a better comparison.

In full disclosure, I recently had a pocket carry fail, so I'm rethinking using a OWB retention holster for my G43 when I'm wearing a tucked in shirt and a jacket. I feel like I've used too many words, but hopefully I've explained my situation well enough to help with interpreting my previous comment. If any of my reasoning seems faulty, I welcome constructive criticism.

[Larry T]

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised no one suggested to use a holster in training the same way you carry or intend to carry. Assuming it's a class that lets you carry in class like you carry in everyday life.

[Wendell]

...I recently had a pocket carry fail, so I'm rethinking using a OWB retention holster for my G43 when I'm wearing a tucked in shirt and a jacket...

That calls for it's own thread. In my experience, we can learn far more from one real-world 'fail' experience than we can from a hundred (so-far-so-good, hoping-for-the-best) positive reviews.

At least, I know that I would be interested in reading about it.

[pangloss]

That calls for it's own thread. In my experience, we can learn far more from one real-world 'fail' experience than we can from a hundred (so-far-so-good, hoping-for-the-best) positive reviews.

At least, I know that I would be interested in reading about it.

Done!

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?34813-pocket-carry-fail-learning-from-a-mistake&p=836937#post836937
(https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?34813-pocket-carry-fail-learning-from-a-mistake&p=836937#post836937)

[Tabasco]

FWIW
I have a couple of Safariland ALS paddle holsters, and I basically have to undo my belt to get them off. I have some other paddle holsters, they are easy to put on and take off. Not the ALS. It's a "feature" and not. If I had to carry OWB and in the open, It would be with the ALS.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm pretty much in the camp of "hard pass" on paddles. Seen to many break, come loose, etc.

The best of the breed is the Safariland, and they make the gun ride funny IMHO.

[Cypher]

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised no one suggested to use a holster in training the same way you carry or intend to carry. Assuming it's a class that lets you carry in class like you carry in everyday life.

One of the biggest advantages I've gotten from attending the classes I've been to has been being able to try out my "kit" the way I wear it everyday and weed out the stuff that doesn't work

[todd]

I am a huge believer in a quality belt holster. I have tried and used a few paddle holsters and they are convenient for carry purpose's, but all the ones I have used for "training" broke. I have had two belt break but one was cheap and other was a manufacturer issue (they fixed). I highly suggest that you get or use a holster that you are going to carry with, as this is a much harder "test", than average carry day. For advance classes, I always (and suggest) take a back up pistol or two, and have back up holster (just in case).

[Gio]

Regarding the sweat guard, I prefer mid or no guard on every holster I use, regardless of owb or iwb. Having a full sweat guard digging into you after you draw is quite annoying and in some cases can limit your mobility. I use a Jm owb2 0 cant mid guard as my every day duty holster in a plain clothes job.