Why do people run into the toilets?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This is a piece on the recent Kenya shooting. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/01/nairobi-terrorism-kenya-costs-shabaab/580561/

My topic is that in a great number of incidents people seem to run into the rest rooms. There is no way out. If you can't defend the door reasonably. It's a death trap. Happened at Sandy Hook, IIRC.

Is it that people regard the bathroom as some kind of sanctuary? I would tell folks never to do that, go for something that has an exit.

Thoughts?

[gtae07]

I think most people without specific training or good presence of mind probably just think "HIDE!" and in a panic state don't have the presence of mind to realize they're trapping themselves.

[Mas]

Suspects have been known to hide in bathrooms too. Might have something to do with a culture in which the bathroom is seen subconsciously as a private place??

[Totem Polar]

Because they know that cops ‘n CCW carriers routinely leave handguns lying around in public restrooms?

I kid, I kid...

[Duelist]

Run, hide, fight. Or so we get told in staff training. Where you gonna hide in a mall or school, if you’ve never wargamed this? Or a bar in Florida?

[BehindBlueI's]

Where you gonna hide in a mall or school, if you’ve never wargamed this? Or a bar in Florida?

Mall, the stockroom of whatever store you happen to be in. Stateside they usually have a door in the back. Depending on the mall, it'll either dump you outside or in to a hallway for deliveries that will dump you outside if you're on the first floor. On an upper floor, there's usually still a back door but the hallway may dump you back out near an elevator or escalator. I note the "back door" of whatever store I'm in if it's unfamiliar to me. It's not always obvious, particularly in a clothing store.

Bars are trickier, I'm sure. Especially a multi-level affair, like some of them downtown here. If you're on the 3rd floor and don't know where to access a fire escape, are drunk, and panicked, good luck.

[Notorious E.O.C.]

Well, when I do emergency preparedness presentations, I tell 'em to use bathrooms as tornado shelters, so maybe I need to be a little more explicit that it's not a one-size-fits-all solution.

[Joe45]

Well, when I do emergency preparedness presentations, I tell 'em to use bathrooms as tornado shelters, so maybe I need to be a little more explicit that it's not a one-size-fits-all solution.I was wondering if that is a reason people would run there. From the drills in school and they think of it as a safe area.

[CraigS]

I think that the no exit is a very valid point. I will be keeping it in mind. But, I can still see why people may run to the bathroom. I am not sure there is a lot of thinking involved for us regular people in that kind of situation but some of it might be;
-it gets you out of view of the shooter
-many are tiled floor to ceiling which, although not an actual bullet stopper, should add some security compared to sheet metal studs and drywall construction everywhere else
Well heck, I thought I would come up w/ more than two but I guess not. Wife and I always find restaurant seating so I can watch the entrance and sometimes we both can. Now I really need to be looking for exits too. At the very least we need to ID the kitchen. Thanks for bringing this up.

[Hambo]

Why hide in a bathroom? Why drive into the car in front instead of veering into an open lane? If you've never considered what to do in a given emergency, you're likely to make bad choices while in panic mode. The overwhelming majority of people believe that they will never be in a fire, shooting, car wreck, etc, and have no training on what to do if it does happen.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've spent two evenings in institutional bathrooms as tornadoes were on the way. Interestingly, I wonder how some poor soul felt when on the throne and they heard 30 people run into the stall.

When the take cover was announced, some folks ran for the cars as they could get out of school early. Whoopee!

[MistWolf]

...in a great number of incidents people seem to run into the rest rooms...

What better place to be if you're about to shit your pants?

I think it's because people equate the restroom with privacy. Or perhaps it's instinctual to hide in a small space. Creatures of all types seek out small spaces to hide when threatened.

[Coyotesfan97]

Mall, the stockroom of whatever store you happen to be in. Stateside they usually have a door in the back. Depending on the mall, it'll either dump you outside or in to a hallway for deliveries that will dump you outside if you're on the first floor. On an upper floor, there's usually still a back door but the hallway may dump you back out near an elevator or escalator. I note the "back door" of whatever store I'm in if it's unfamiliar to me. It's not always obvious, particularly in a clothing store.

Bars are trickier, I'm sure. Especially a multi-level affair, like some of them downtown here. If you're on the 3rd floor and don't know where to access a fire escape, are drunk, and panicked, good luck.

We’ve been training in an abandoned/shut down mall. I’ve done real searches in it for copper thieves. What BBI said. Get in the rear access/employee hallway tunnels. They’re like a maze. Multiple exit points with stairwells going from floors. Every shop has a back door to get in them along with access points generally by bathrooms or secluded hallways.

[Notorious E.O.C.]

Well heck, I thought I would come up w/ more than two but I guess not. Wife and I always find restaurant seating so I can watch the entrance and sometimes we both can. Now I really need to be looking for exits too. At the very least we need to ID the kitchen. Thanks for bringing this up.

One of the things we see in evacuation studies (mainly evacuations for fires, because that's what generates most of the data) is that the vast majority of people will leave an unfamiliar space through the same portal they used to enter it, even if a closer or safer exit is available. This defeats the purpose of having multiple fire exits and can lead to potentially lethal crowd crushes. Not a bad idea to have an alternate exit in mind for situations other than gunfights.

[Joe in PNG]

Lady, I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of.
Sam, from the movie "Ronin"

[Port]

One of the things we see in evacuation studies (mainly evacuations for fires, because that's what generates most of the data) is that the vast majority of people will leave an unfamiliar space through the same portal they used to enter it, even if a closer or safer exit is available. This defeats the purpose of having multiple fire exits and can lead to potentially lethal crowd crushes. Not a bad idea to have an alternate exit in mind for situations other than gunfights.
Especially at theatres.

[todd]

My take on why? Think about it from the stand point of a human being, in your life what was the one place that was sanctuary? The bathroom. This is the one place that few people go with you, when you do your business. Those that are not trained, run into it. It is a subconscious decision, to get away from the issue and/or people. I get in there, then I go into a stall, no one in the right mind would come in.
As we all know this is the wrong decision, first the person attacking is not in the right "mind", 2nd there is no exits, and third there is limited if any way to block the door or find defense tools. Remember the people who run into the bathroom are not trained and believe "out of sight, out of mind". I recall an incident, where a felon was engaging LEO, with gun fire. I believe it was in Ohio, there was a innocent bystander, as soon as the shots was fired, she ran into a portable toilet (so you know she was scared). Afterward, she stated, I just know I had to get out of there, so I went inside. The mindset is concealment and feel secure, what better way then wrapped in a blanket or inside a close room, that feels hugging you.

[Tactical Black Belt]

You see this scenario play out in a lot of movies. Some panicking woman is being pursued by a villain and runs in the back bathroom and locks the door which the bad guy proceeds to break down. There is a fantastic weapon in practically every home bathroom that nobody thinks about. The heavy porcelain lid to the toilet tank. All she would have to do is stand off to the side of the door and hold that lid cocked over her head and wait for the "Here's Johnny" moment. She would literally have the drop on the bad guy.

BTW, I am really hard to watch a movie with.

[ViniVidivici]

You see this scenario play out in a lot of movies. Some panicking woman is being pursued by a villain and runs in the back bathroom and locks the door which the bad guy proceeds to break down. There is a fantastic weapon in practically every home bathroom that nobody thinks about. The heavy porcelain lid to the toilet tank. All she would have to do is stand off to the side of the door and hold that lid cocked over her head and wait for the "Here's Johnny" moment. She would literally have the drop on the bad guy.

BTW, I am really hard to watch a movie with.

Good show, another tool in the toolbox!

[Shawn Dodson]

Maybe they think the bathroom door can be locked from the inside?

Maybe they think they can barricade the door?

[jetfire]

Some public bathrooms can be locked from the inside so there's that to consider.

[Alpha Sierra]

Put me in the group that knows there's a back door to almost every store in a mall and plans on hauling ass to them in case something panics the masses.

In addition to that, any door that says "employees only" at the mall/theater/wherever is fair game when I need to get the hell out in a hurry.

[Peally]

Maybe they really gotta poop.

We've all been there.

[Tactical Black Belt]

Three things to look for in any place that you are going to spend time are the exit, cover and hiding places. If you can't bring your sidearm also look for potential impact weapons and blind corners (see my post about using the toilet tank lid). You can take out an active shooter with an improvised club if you know how to set an ambush 90 degrees inside a door way. This is a last resort of course but sometimes you can't leave or hide. The main thing is have a plan.

[1slow]

Because the situation is turning to shit !

[JHC]

You see this scenario play out in a lot of movies. Some panicking woman is being pursued by a villain and runs in the back bathroom and locks the door which the bad guy proceeds to break down. There is a fantastic weapon in practically every home bathroom that nobody thinks about. The heavy porcelain lid to the toilet tank. All she would have to do is stand off to the side of the door and hold that lid cocked over her head and wait for the "Here's Johnny" moment. She would literally have the drop on the bad guy.

BTW, I am really hard to watch a movie with.

While the context of the thread is properly on unarmed panic stricken victims to be, you mentioned the make shift bludgeon. If one is armed, firearmed, rather than being exposed in an open area, the restroom could be turned into a fatal funnel for the shooter. Like a badgers den. It's a hero or zero play I'll grant ya that.

[beenalongtime]

What better place to be if you're about to shit your pants?




Because the situation is turning to shit !

and your mother always told you to always wear clean underwear.

[Casual Friday]

One of the Paris nightclub survivors said something to the effect that running into the bathroom provided a brief moment of temporary safety rather than being shot or trampled right away.