HALO NEUROSCIENCE HEADPHONES

[Otaku.edc]

Has anyone purchased and used these things for anY length of time?

https://www.haloneuro.com

I first heard of them in JJ Racaza’s course as a supplement to aid in deliberate practice for competition shooting. Max Michel has promoted it and Dr. Seth Haselhuhn (sports psychologist with GreyHive) says they are legit.

I’m skeptical and thought it would be difficult rigorously test it vs placebo effect.

But curious.

[RevolverRob]

I can't find any actual published science that supports the concept of "neuro priming" (actually the appropriate term is probably "cortex stimulation") that appears to work better than placebo in this realm.

Cortex stimulation is not a new conceptual idea, and stimulation of the motor cortex has been used to treat neurological pain. And yes, it can create "hyperexcitability" of the cortex. But that actually means very little, since the motor cortex is not solely response for muscle memory and motor control. More importantly, clinically, where are hyperexcited cortices most often found? In patients with Alzheimers and ALS. In other words, people who have hyperexcited cortices have lower function in other areas of the brain, areas critical for memory formation and retention and fine-motor skills.

So, yea, maybe it makes you stay a little more on task by hyperexciting the motor cortex, but the end result might be reduced brain activity outside of the motor cortex. By no means am I suggesting that this device will give you Alzheimers or ALS (I'm not), but I am suggesting that there is no free lunch. The brain is an extremely complex organ, in fact it is the most complex organ we're aware of. Given our limited ability to image it accurately and very minimal ability to understand the complex networks of neural pathways - I'd not advise anyone to fuck heavily with cortex stimulation, until substantially more (and long-term) clinical studies have been completed.

And while I absolutely respect athletes for their tireless dedication to their craft, let's just be clear, athletes are not neuroscientists, or doctors, or biologists, they're athletes. And they already sit on the outlier end of the spectrum for human performance anyways. Nothing is going to give you superhuman abilities or make a couch potato into an athlete.

Most folks are probably best helped by hitting the gym for an hour of cardio and weight lifting every-other-day, not consuming caffeine after 4pm, and getting enough damn sleep.

[LOKNLOD]

I'd not advise anyone to fuck heavily with cortex stimulation,

So I shouldn't use these to neuroprime before sex?

[RevolverRob]

So I shouldn't use these to neuroprime before sex?

If you can't stay focused for those 90-seconds; then you've got a lot of other problems that probably won't be solved by Halo Neuroscience Headphones either.

[LOKNLOD]

If you can't stay focused for those 90-seconds; then you've got a lot of other problems that probably won't be solved by Halo Neuroscience Headphones either.

It looks like it makes people better at sports, I was hoping it would help me think about baseball.

[Peally]

When I saw it way back when it seemed like placebo snake oil. Reminds me of kinesiology tape, it has its users and a lot of random assumptions behind it.

[Hambo]

It looks like it makes people better at sports, I was hoping it would help me think about baseball.

You're supposed to close your eyes and think of England.

[JAD]

So I shouldn't use these to neuroprime before sex?

http://i.cdn.turner.com/v5cache/TCM/Images/Dynamic/i365/brainstorm1983.69568_060520150341.jpg

[JAD]

You're supposed to close your eyes and think of England.

Not the whole country. Just the Queen.

[txdpd]

If you believe that they will help you, they will be of tremendous benefit, we are talking near true believer status. If believe they are scam, you probably get zero true benefit out of them. Since you had to ask and are trying to make an informed decision, you should probably pass.

I personally would put that in the category of placebo effect, however, that's not a bad thing. People are there own worst enemies, if they believe something is unattainable they will thwart themselves. If people believe that placebo will work and dedicate themselves to the task at hand, they will get a tremendous benefit. (I fully understand that not all of us can be astronauts)

It's like the DA/SA conundrum threads on here. People read about how difficult it is to shoot DA/SA, they decide that it's difficult, and they manifest problems. They will change some ridiculous aspect of their shooting, and not have problems, not because the solution actually works, but because they believed it would work and focused on being fundamentally to make it work.

[txdpd]

Not the whole country. Just the Queen.

As a wise mine once said

"Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold day"

[Blades]

If you can't stay focused for those 90-seconds; then you've got a lot of other problems that probably won't be solved by Halo Neuroscience Headphones either.

90 seconds? Ooooh, to be 21 again. :)

[RevolverRob]

90 seconds? Ooooh, to be 21 again. :)

I was trying to give LOKNLOD the benefit of the doubt. Some guys don’t get better with age. :eek:

[Nephrology]

Yeah, they don't do anything

[txdpd]

Yeah, they don't do anything

I bet they work, it’s that the groups and people that using the product are going to great length for imperceptible c changes. At 96mph a batter has to be accurate within about .00055 seconds, that's about how long it takes the ball to move one inch. If I can take a pro ball player, stimulate his brain and give him .0001 improvement in perception and reaction times, I've given him a massive improvement in performance. I don’t know what the actual results would be but anything less than those folks at the bounds of human performance will get any meaningful results.

We often get off track worrying about what top level performers do to get a microscopic edge on the competition, when we should looking at what he did when he was at our level.

[Peally]

I have some magnetic copper wellness bracelets to sell here. And some glasses. Mods, hook me up as a vendor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7R6zzUc7-w



I bet they 100% don't even remotely do jack shit, personally. It's a pretty safe bet.

[Nephrology]

I bet they work, it’s that the groups and people that using the product are going to great length for imperceptible c changes. At 96mph a batter has to be accurate within about .00055 seconds, that's about how long it takes the ball to move one inch. If I can take a pro ball player, stimulate his brain and give him .0001 improvement in perception and reaction times, I've given him a massive improvement in performance. I don’t know what the actual results would be but anything less than those folks at the bounds of human performance will get any meaningful results.

We often get off track worrying about what top level performers do to get a microscopic edge on the competition, when we should looking at what he did when he was at our level.

I just woke up and am uncaffeinated, but briefly, the principal reason I am skeptical is that most of the peer-reviewed studies they have on their website are all a little weak. Sure, there are a lot of them, some of them are even in good journals + were done out of decent universities. It's also worth mentioning that brain stimulation (principally, deep brain stimulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_brain_stimulation)) as a concept does see clinical use, so I do believe that the basic principles behind tDCS may have merit.

However, generally speaking, there is a huge false positive bias in biomedical literature. As an example, one of the the studies they cite (Transcranial Direct Current Stimulation Modulates Neuronal Activity and Learning in Pilot Training) is essentially negative (https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/bad-reporting-about-uploading-memories/) but is published as if it were a positive result.

In another test, they authors report a 23% difference in tCDS vs placebo, but numerically this amounts to 12.61 (± 4.65 min) and 10.21 (± 3.47) min respectively. Those numbers in parenthesis are standard deviations, which can be interpreted as 2/3rds of participants in each group had scores between 7.96-17.26min (tCDS) and 6.74-13.68 min, respectively. When your standard deviation is almost twice your purported numerical improvement (4.65min vs 2.40 min) I think you need to be cautious about how powerful of an effect this really is.

So, long story short, I agree basically that you might be right in that this produces tiny effects that are important only to the most elite competitors. However, given the relative volume and quantity of the evidence for this, I don't think this can be stated with total confidence. If you have the money and are curious, sure, why not - I just wouldn't bet the farm on it.

[JohnO]

Are they from the shock therapy lab of a Scientologist?

[Nephrology]

Are they from the shock therapy lab of a Scientologist?

Believe it or not, electroconvulsive therapy actually does work very well for severe refractory depression, among other things. Dr Sherwin Nuland did a very moving TED talk (https://www.ted.com/talks/sherwin_nuland_on_electroshock_therapy?language=en ) on his personal experiences with depression & ECT