Grip alignment

[cornstalker]

Just a heads up, if you are already irritated with us picking the fly shit out of the pepper, you might want to skip this thread.

Trying to piece together the Glock .vs small hands thing and I am looking for some input. I have been told numerous times that the pistol should be aligned with the bones in your forearm. I perceive that to mean that the centerline of the gun should be aligned with the centerline of the forearm, as opposed to parallel to but offset from the centerline of the forearm. Using the centerlign aligned grip I can't reach the pedals.

Trying to take the pictures by myself I may have flexed my wrist a little, creating a misalignment in the pic.

Centerline alignment:
33772

I can just barely get the trigger with the tip of my finger. My pinky is barely doing anything (not sure if that even matters), and there is a gap between my middle finger and the trigger guard.

33773

My trigger finger is so stretched that there is full contact with the frame all the way up. Isolating the PIP joint is nearly impossible.

33774

If I rotate my hand counter-clockwise around the grip (viewed from the top) the gun is parallel to the forearm bones, but with some inboard offset.

33775

This results in better finger placement on the trigger, middle finger is up against the trigger guard, middle, ring and pinky fingers have a better purchase on the grip.

33776

My trigger finger isn't stretched against the frame and isolating the PIP is much easier, but requires some concentration.

33777

Is the offset I have to use to get the other stuff right working against me, or is this fairly normal?

For the record, I was paying absolutely zero attention to what my thumb was doing while taking these pictures. Wherever it may have ended up in the pics does not reflect my actual shooting grip.

[runcible]

(Borrowing from another thread...)

In theory, the optimal grip for my folks as I see it is something along the lines of:

...Shooting-hand as high up on the backstrap as possible, rotated forward sufficient to operate the trigger from rest in one uninterupted stroke when firing one-handed with the thumb flagged up and pressing laterally against the frame.

...Support-hand index-finger choked up high into the intersection of the shooting-hand's middle-finger and the underside of the trigger-guard. The support-hand index-finger may rest between the first and second knuckles of the shooting-hand, or it may clasp against the shooting-side edge of the trigger-guard.

...Support-hand thumb advanced sufficiently far forward so as to be in-line with the trigger finger's tip at full rest, or further; sufficiently far forward that the meaty portion of the support-hand's thumb is pressed high and firmly against the frame (from meaty base near the wrist to the tip at the far end), but not so highly that it interferes with automatic or deliberate functioning of any firecontrols.

...Shooting-hand thumb posts on or between the first two knuckles of the support-hand thumb.

...both elbows rolled over, adding additional contra-rotational pressure within the shooter's grip, loaded primarily between the shooting-hand's first knuckle and the entire length of the support-hand's thumb from first knuckle to tip.

The two main influences for any shooting grip are the requirements for trigger operation and the requirements for managing recoil. There cannot be recoil without trigger manipulation, so the requirements of the initial trigger press have priority over anything related to recoil. More so, there is an ethical weight associated with the performance of some trigger presses but no equivalent for the matter of managing recoil; again, the needs of the trigger win out. Aligning the centerline of the firearm with the web of the hand and the bones of the forearm is mostly associated with "instinctive aim" and greater recoil management; but the former falls by the wayside in the days of using sights and the latter alignment between weapon and forearm bones is only expressed during the one-handed shooting, as the alignment is immediately distorted by any two-handed firing grip.

I don't advocate for any such alignment, nor do I look for it amongst my folks; I don't see the concept to have significant value in the least. I do admit the bias of never having found a weapon that I can effectively fire with such an index, and certainly not any work-issued weapon of the last 16 years.

[JV_]

This is probably worth a read:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14022-How-Important-Is-The-Perfect-Grip

[cornstalker]

Well, that got quickly hammered into a non-issue. Thanks for the resources!

[JAD]

This is probably worth a read:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14022-How-Important-Is-The-Perfect-Grip

There was another thread started by Jay that explored the importance of radius to bore alignment. I think it’s an interesting question.

I shoot guns way better, on the timer and on the target, when I can properly address the gun. For me that’s having alignment— which for me isn’t important in the shooting grip per se but rather in the initial firing grip obtained in the holster, with a pronounced effect of time and probability of first shot; and of course trigger address. I can shoot post-3 G17s. I cannot shoot G19s at all. I measure way better when shooting 1911s with thin panels vs standard. I cannot shoot any double column DA, or N frames, or K frames if the backstrap is covered.

[runcible]

"The first tactile indexing in the optimized shooting grip must be determined through firing separate from training involving the drawstroke: it must be identified first from the required length of pull that will allow the trigger finger to press the trigger from front to rear in a singular motion with minimal lateral movement of the front sight and then confirmed with single-handed fire, and from that extrapolated to a tactile reference point on the frame and\or slide that verifies that the trigger finger is sufficiently situated to operate the trigger without requiring any physical interaction between the two. This tactile reference point must be sought by a specific portion of the trigger finger as soon as it becomes exposed as the weapon is drawn from the holster; when they become married together, they are a tactile index. This provides for the student definitively knowing that their finger is off-trigger and positively registered against the firearm and away from the triggerguard and trigger, provides a point for applying pressure with the trigger finger during firearms manipulations, to reduce the firearm's ability to roll within the one-handed grip as the slide is pulled off-center by the other hand, and most importantly that their finger is neither too far forward nor too far rearwards to best press the trigger to the rear when necessary. Examples of each may include the forwardmost crease in the trigger finger, mid-pad of trigger finger's forwardmost segment, the leading edge of the disassembly lever, and the middle of the disassembly lever. A tactile reference point onto the slide is most desirable for all activities not including manipulation of the slide (Credit: Paul Gomez, Craig Douglas), and a tactile reference point onto the frame is required during any slide manipulations. If on the draw, the shooter cannot bring together the appropriate portion of their trigger finger to the on-weapon reference point, then they should use their support hand to roll the weapon within the firing hand's grip as the hands join together, until the issue is corrected."

[JAD]

"The first tactile indexing...

May I ask whom you’re quoting?

[runcible]

Rough draft of a thing I'm doing up for work.