Does this sound reasonable

[digiadaamore]

Ok guys i just had a thought. if you carry an m&p, glock or ppq (like i do) its cocked and ready to go when you pull the trigger you deactivate the passive safety. Now if you have a usp variant 9 that has a firing pin safety and can be cocked and locked. if you holster the gun with the safety on then deactivate the safety once its in the holster, is there any difference in the holstered gun that would make it inherently dangerous than the aforementioned striker fired guns?

long story short is it reasonable to holster the usp cocked and locked then deactivate the safety, so if you need the gun theres no safety in the way? keep in mind that with the guns listed that most of us carry all you need to do is pull the trigger to fire, but they are drop safe etc... with the h&k safety off it would be the same no?

[JConn]

Seems the same as this

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dp3kJ6SU3ycs&v=p3kJ6SU3ycs&gl=US

[digiadaamore]

Seems the same as this

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dp3kJ6SU3ycs&v=p3kJ6SU3ycs&gl=US

link does not work for me:( tell me what to look up

[JeffJ]

I think it's more reasonable to train with the weapon enough to use it as intended. If you have a weapon with a safety then disabling it should be a natural part of your draw stroke. It may or may not be safe in the holster without it, but what happens when you accidently left it on and then draw the weapon to get a click instead of a bang and have to trouble shoot - not a good thing when you really, really need a bang. Just my 2c

[digiadaamore]

I think it's more reasonable to train with the weapon enough to use it as intended. If you have a weapon with a safety then disabling it should be a natural part of your draw stroke. It may or may not be safe in the holster without it, but what happens when you accidently left it on and then draw the weapon to get a click instead of a bang and have to trouble shoot - not a good thing when you really, really need a bang. Just my 2c

oh absolutely i dont carry the usp, i carry my walther, the usp is a backup i train with a gun with no safety to disengage . im just thinking if in an emergency i need to carry the hk i could set it up the way i described

[JeffJ]

oh absolutely i dont carry the usp, i carry my walther, the usp is a backup i train with a gun with no safety to disengage . im just thinking if in an emergency i need to carry the hk i could set it up the way i described

That makes more sense, I hope my post didnt' come across the wrong way - wasn't meaning to be snarky -- As a glock shooter, I find myself in deep doo doo whenever I shoot something else at the range. Even with my little brain going, it has a safety, it has a safety -- If I were you I'd get a different back up

[digiadaamore]

That makes more sense, I hope my post didnt' come across the wrong way - wasn't meaning to be snarky -- As a glock shooter, I find myself in deep doo doo whenever I shoot something else at the range. Even with my little brain going, it has a safety, it has a safety -- If I were you I'd get a different back up

certainly no offense taken

[Lomshek]

Not a personal attack on the OP but here is my take.

If you are afraid that manipulating a safety lever will slow you down you either need more training, a smithed gun (different safety lever/easier safety activation) or a new gun.

I typically fire a high round count Ruger P94 DA/SA manual safety (Identical function to the Beretta 92 FS) in USPSA matches and am starting to shoot B-class classifiers. The safety has never slowed me down and I have never flubbed the release. There are a few guns who's safety is so awkward it would slow you down but in most cases a shooter needs to practice more. The HK safety is not a slow safety to use, it is incredibly fast and well placed (my opinion).

[digiadaamore]

Not a personal attack on the OP but here is my take.

If you are afraid that manipulating a safety lever will slow you down you either need more training, a smithed gun (different safety lever/easier safety activation) or a new gun.

I typically fire a high round count Ruger P94 DA/SA manual safety (Identical function to the Beretta 92 FS) in USPSA matches and am starting to shoot B-class classifiers. The safety has never slowed me down and I have never flubbed the release. There are a few guns who's safety is so awkward it would slow you down but in most cases a shooter needs to practice more. The HK safety is not a slow safety to use, it is incredibly fast and well placed (my opinion).

heres the point. i have enough training, on a gun with no manual safety. the purpose of this discussion is to get an informed opinion of if the logistics of the weapon are concurrent with my thinking on the topic. that the firearm in the state described would be safe to carry as with a striker fired weapon.

please just opinion on that from here on out

[TGS]

Digiad,

Yes, the HK itself would be safe to carry without having the safety on. It would still have the FPB, and the hammer would be resting against the decocker in a half-cock position, not against the firing pin itself.

I think I know what you're thinking......if I don't safe it, does that bypass the other safeties? Nope. It's still mechanically safe to carry, unlike some older pistols which if you take off the safety, then have nothing keeping the gun from firing such as a FPB or half-cock position.

However, consider that Murphy guy.....maybe the safety gets activated when you don't think it is, and you haven't swiped it to make sure. The best option would be to switch out the variant for a decocker only as soon as you can. For the USP, variant 3 if right handed, or variant 4 for southpaws.

ETA: Wait, you have a variant 9? In that case, yes it's an issue, because it doesn't have a decocker and that means you're carrying cocked and unlocked, or thumbing down a hammer to decock when you could be using a decocker instead. I personally don't see why people get in a hubbub about cocked and unlocked with a USP or P-series, because their SA triggers don't have appreciably less trigger travel than a Glock, M&P or PPQ anyway. But, it's generally considered a no-no to carry cocked and unlocked. Even cocked, the USP will still have an active FPB like your other modern service pistols.

[JConn]

Ok so that video was tex grebner shooting himself in the leg. If you are thinking of carrying this thing in single action, without the safety engaged, that is a bad, bad, bad idea.

Technically if your finger stays off the trigger you would be fine, but it just doesn't seem smart to me.

[TGS]

If you are thinking of carrying this thing in single action, without the safety engaged, that is a bad, bad, bad idea.

So why is a PPQ, P99QA, Glock, M&P, XD, ect, safe to carry?

Maybe it's a measurable difference, but there's no appreciable difference in weight or trigger travel between those and a cocked USP/P-Series that I've ever felt.

I've asked a lot of people this question, and the best answer I got was from a former cop who was issued a Glock, who said, "Perception of safety created by Glock's marketing."

[JConn]

It must be my failing memory. But the single action on the p series guns I've messed with felt pretty light. If I am out of line than I do apologize. I do however think it's a good idea to use a weapon in the manner it was intended to be used.

[BaiHu]

How would an HK differ from a Glock in this instance? My DA/SA P30 has a longer pull and heavier pull than a Glock whether its decocked or not.

Safe gun handling, IMO, is mainly between the ears and secondarily the equipment choice, which comes from between the ears in the first place, no?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[BaiHu]

Think you just clarified as I was typing JConn.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[TGS]

It must be my failing memory. But the single action on the p series guns I've messed with felt pretty light. If I am out of line than I do apologize. I do however think it's a good idea to use a weapon in the manner it was intended to be used.

It's in the neighborhood of 4-5lbs.

I would danger that most SFA's that people carry are in the neighborhood of 5-6lbs.

Here comes that key word I used: Appreciable. Measurable difference? Yes. Appreciably? :confused:

[digiadaamore]

I personally don't see why people get in a hubbub about cocked and unlocked with a USP or P-series, because their SA triggers don't have appreciably less trigger travel than a Glock, M&P or PPQ anyway. But, it's generally considered a no-no to carry cocked and unlocked. Even cocked, the USP will still have an active FPB like your other modern service pistols.[/QUOTE]


It's in the neighborhood of 4-5lbs.

I would danger that most SFA's that people carry are in the neighborhood of 5-6lbs.

Here comes that key word I used: Appreciable. Measurable difference? Yes. Appreciably? :confused:

I think i love you man, my ppq trigger is definetly lighter and less travel than the hk in sa, as such im perfectly happy carrying it cocked and unlocked as long long as the FPB is still in affect. i believe that it would actually be harder to set off the hk cocked and unlocked than ppq. and so long as its still drop safe than thats how ill carry it

[TGS]

I think i love you man, my ppq trigger is definetly lighter and less travel than the hk in sa, as such im perfectly happy carrying it cocked and unlocked as long long as the FPB is still in affect. i believe that it would actually be harder to set off the hk cocked and unlocked than ppq. and so long as its still drop safe than thats how ill carry it

I personally still don't think it's a good idea.......but I've yet to see anyone say anything that makes sense on why SFA's are okay but cocked and unlocked HK's aren't.

I'm not arguing for carrying cocked and unlocked....if anything, my bias would be using this as a way to argue against SFA. I'm a cretin and prefer TDA, both because I like it and also because of the larger margin of error for cretinous actions. I prefer to not carry SFA, just as I prefer to not carry cocked and unlocked.

Given that, I'm genuinely really really interested in someone throwing out something meaningful that makes sense. I'm not trying to troll. In the 80+ hours of formal handgun instruction I've had, no one has given a meaningful answer that makes sense.

[JRL]

Give that HK an LEM.

HKs love LEM.

[BaiHu]

I personally still don't think it's a good idea.......but I've yet to see anyone say anything that makes sense on why SFA's are okay but cocked and unlocked HK's aren't.

I'm not arguing for carrying cocked and unlocked....if anything, my bias would be using this as a way to argue against SFA. I'm a cretin and prefer TDA, both because I like it and also because of the larger margin of error for cretinous actions. I prefer to not carry SFA, just as I prefer to not carry cocked and unlocked.

Given that, I'm genuinely really really interested in someone throwing out something meaningful that makes sense. I'm not trying to troll. In the 80+ hours of formal handgun instruction I've had, no one has given a meaningful answer that makes sense.

I'm with you on this. Murphy is an omnipresent trickster and I've never understood how SFAs are considered safer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[JeffJ]

I personally still don't think it's a good idea.......but I've yet to see anyone say anything that makes sense on why SFA's are okay but cocked and unlocked HK's aren't.

I'm not arguing for carrying cocked and unlocked....if anything, my bias would be using this as a way to argue against SFA. I'm a cretin and prefer TDA, both because I like it and also because of the larger margin of error for cretinous actions. I prefer to not carry SFA, just as I prefer to not carry cocked and unlocked.

Given that, I'm genuinely really really interested in someone throwing out something meaningful that makes sense. I'm not trying to troll. In the 80+ hours of formal handgun instruction I've had, no one has given a meaningful answer that makes sense.

As a SFA carrier

The danger to me isnt the ND - at least not more danger than my SFA - the danger to me is that your training to not deactivate a safety on the draw stroke when the firearm has a safety, so if for some cretinous reason you leave the safety on in the holster your draw stroke doesn't deactivate it and you end up making a bad situation worse.

That is assuming that the weapon is drop safe - which I honestly don't know.

[Motor-T]

As a SFA carrier

the danger to me is that your training to not deactivate a safety on the draw stroke when the firearm has a safety, so if for some cretinous reason you leave the safety on in the holster your draw stroke doesn't deactivate it and you end up making a bad situation worse.

I have this same concern with the idea of carrying a DA/SA or DAO gun with the safety off. If the manual safety is undesireable get a gun without a manual safety. I don't, however, think that a "cocked and un-locked" HK is any more prone to AD/ND.