Drop in Short Reset for HK

[MGW]

Looks like Gray Guns just released a drop in short reset kit for HK P30’s, P2000, and USP’s. Works with TDA and LEM.

https://grayguns.com/product/hk-p30-p2000-short-reset-system-without-thumb-safety/

https://grayguns.com/product/hk-usp-hk45-short-reset-system/

[fly out]

Thanks for pointing this out.

Here is the link (https://grayguns.com/product/hk-p30-short-reset-system-thumb-safety/)for P30 models with a thumb safety.

[GJM]

Between carefully following Bruce Gray’s comments during the 320 drop safety experience, and how I use my HK hammer pistols, my inclination is to leave the fire control parts OEM. I have those pistols for their accumulated proven history with the OEM parts, and some incremental improvement to their triggers does not seem worth it to me in exchange for being a product tester. Of course, I am always happy for others to do that testing!

[Doc_Glock]

Between carefully following Bruce Gray’s comments during the 320 drop safety experience, and how I use my HK hammer pistols, my inclination is to leave the fire control parts OEM. I have those pistols for their accumulated proven history with the OEM parts, and some incremental improvement to their triggers does not seem worth it to me in exchange for being a product tester. Of course, I am always happy for others to do that testing!

My thoughts entirely.

[Duke]

This drop in thingy was my first purchase of 2019....


Not sure why I wanted it. But whatever is does I’ll know sooner than in 10-12 week turnaround time for shop work.

[Duke]

Between carefully following Bruce Gray’s comments during the 320 drop safety experience, and how I use my HK hammer pistols, my inclination is to leave the fire control parts OEM. I have those pistols for their accumulated proven history with the OEM parts, and some incremental improvement to their triggers does not seem worth it to me in exchange for being a product tester. Of course, I am always happy for others to do that testing!

Missed that whole ordeal. Is there a summery that can be found somewhere ?

[MGW]

This might push me over the edge to try a P30L in 2019 as my do everything gun. The HK’s in 45 that I own have very short resets and don’t need anything in my opinion but shot and dry fired. I think reset length is overrated but reducing the reset on a P30 would make the transition from being a previous Sig TDA user easier. Theoretically anyway.

[Balisong]

Missed that whole ordeal. Is there a summery that can be found somewhere ?

I don't know that it had it's own thread, but when the Dropgate stuff was first going down BG was making statements on the social media about how it was a load of crap and he had a hand in the 320 development and it was perfectly drop safe and so were his kits for it. Believe it was talked about in the bigger dropgate threads.

[Duke]

I don't know that it had it's own thread, but when the Dropgate stuff was first going down BG was making statements on the social media about how it was a load of crap and he had a hand in the 320 development and it was perfectly drop safe and so were his kits for it. Believe it was talked about in the bigger dropgate threads.

So guy that helped develop it said it wasn’t flawed. Check

[GJM]

Missed that whole ordeal. Is there a summery that can be found somewhere ?

Long and painful episode.

The cliff notes version is as follows. When the initial 320 firing when dropped reports came out, Bruce said they had tested the crap out of the 320, it was drop safe, and people making these reports were wrong and would suffer the wrath of Sig.

These new HK parts may be the best thing since sliced bread, but I will let others independently test that. I primarily use my HK hammer pistols to launch Super ammo, and reset will be the last thing on my mind when shooting at something. On the other hand, they must positively work or bad things would happen. For a play pistol, I wouldn’t hesitate to try this part, but it would be a while before I would rely on it for something serious. Along those lines, I plan to send a VP9 to Rick, but that is for gaming use only.

[Brianjkeene]

So guy that helped develop it said it wasn’t flawed. Check

The bigger issue is that, in my perception of things, is that it appeared BG knew about all of the issues but defended his position that there wasn’t a problem - this goes the same for SIGs leadership as well - seemed everyone knew but wanted to downplay the issue. Again, this is how I perceived it from all of my reading.

[Coyote41]

So Gray Guns replaces the control latch. I cannot see it affecting drop safety in the LEM or TDA variant without being grossly out of spec. The spring for the FPB may, but it appears to be the same one they/Lazy Wolf have been using for a while.

I have some on order to try in a TDA P30L and an LEM P30L.

[Duke]

The bigger issue is that, in my perception of things, is that it appeared BG knew about all of the issues but defended his position that there wasn’t a problem - this goes the same for SIGs leadership as well - seemed everyone knew but wanted to downplay the issue. Again, this is how I perceived it from all of my reading.

Yea that’s maybe not so good.

Tell the truth or at least don’t lie is a good guideline.

That said. Who hasn’t defended their own position on a issue knowing full well they may be wrong ?

No excuses being made. Just saying. Throwing bullets is a serious deal.

[GJM]

So Gray Guns replaces the control latch. I cannot see it affecting drop safety in the LEM or TDA variant without being grossly out of spec. The spring for the FPB may, but it appears to be the same one they/Lazy Wolf have been using for a while.

I have some on order to try in a TDA P30L and an LEM P30L.

Whether in an aircraft or in a firearm, part changes can bring with them intended and unintended/unanticipated changes. Manufacturers do testing, that hopefully catches most problems, but it is end users, especially the early adopters, that catch many of the arrows. On a game gun, where increments of performance matter and the downside is pretty minimal, I would be all over something like this. For my use, not a chance I would be their product tester.

[Sauer Koch]

About this short reset...on the V4.1 kit, I’ve heard that it kicks the hammer back away from the slide just a bit, compared to where it sits on a stock V1 model. I’m curious if this GGI kit does the same, or does the hammer rest as deep in the slide as the stock V1?

About leaving your HK stock, I can understand that. We have two M11 A-1’s, and we sent both back to Sig for their AEP, due to the triggers being very heavy, and very gritty! The results of the action work was a huge improvement for sure, and I’m glad we had it done.
I bought one of the new Talo Classic Carry 226’s, which was to be my carry gun, and after hearing about how nice the GGI trigger kits (P-PAK) were, I decided to send it to them for the full kit and action job. The stock trigger wasn’t too bad, but I just wanted to see what all the fuss was about, and I have to say it’s nice. Fast forward a bit, and we’ve dove into the HK pool, with a new P30sk for her, and a P30 for me, both V1, and I can’t see any reason at this point, to have any trigger work done on either of these pistols, since the LEM triggers are excellent right out of the box, despite having a much longer reset than our Sigs.

We both love the HK’s at this point, but it’ll be interesting to see if people really like this kit.

[YVK]

I don't know how much this drop-in kit is different from what GGI used to do in-house, but the latter doesn't change hammer's position.

Likewise, I don't know if this drop-in kit affects reliability of a gun in any different way than the in-house work did, but my P30 has gone some 25,000 rounds without any problems.

[JonInWA]

Um, I'm actually pretty pleased with the OEM resets on both my P30L w/V1 LEM, and my VP40;.not quite as short as on my Glocks, but decent enough for me to be reluctant to screw with 'em, especially with aftermarket components...
Best, Jon

[GJM]

I don't know how much this drop-in kit is different from what GGI used to do in-house, but the latter doesn't change hammer's position.

Likewise, I don't know if this drop-in kit affects reliability of a gun in any different way than the in-house work did, but my P30 has gone some 25,000 rounds without any problems.

If 50 customer guns each went 25,000 rounds with the new part, I would feel pretty good about the new part, but it wouldn’t start to approach the fleet reliability of the HK USP. I am reminded of the story of the secretary from Federal Cartridges contacting HK to see if they should send their .45 ammo testing USP in for some initial PM. HK CS person says perhaps it isn’t necessary yet, so how many rounds are on the pistol? Some rustling of papers and she comes back and says “279,000 rounds have been fired.”

[Sauer Koch]

279K...holy shit! I’m surprised they didn’t offer to buy that back as a promotion piece, along with the documentation to support it.

[Bucky]

There was a time I was all about the reset. Today, reset doesn’t matter. Shortening the trigger return is something more I’d be interested in.

Also, I read some of the statements by BG when drop gate was ongoing. It’s soured (Sauer’d?) my opinion a bit.

[JodyH]

There was a time I was all about the reset. Today, reset doesn’t matter. Shortening the trigger return is something more I’d be interested in.
Shortening the return or takeup on a LEM kind of defeats the entire purpose of LEM.

[Coyote41]

Shortening the return or takeup on a LEM kind of defeats the entire purpose of LEM.

We’re getting into minutiae I think, but where is the sweet spot of travel for safety vs shootability? I think that’s a good question that everyone has to decide for themselves.

I think shortening the trigger by 1/3 (via 4.1) and the reset by 1/3 (via Gray guns) wouldn’t substantially hurt the “social” aspects of LEM. You still get the visual of the hammer, as well as a good amount of travel, even with the 4.1 kit.

[Bucky]

Shortening the return or takeup on a LEM kind of defeats the entire purpose of LEM.

I was thinking more TDA, which was mentioned in the OP.

That being said, I like the V4.1 mod done on my P2000. My P2000SK is still a factory V2, so I can compare side by side.

[David S.]

Too lazy to look it up. What’s the difference in feel between the 4.1 and the TGS?

[Duke]

This is the most curious portion of the item’s properties


“Converts the action to drive the sear directly off the safety lever – instead of transferring energy through the drop safety catch – for a direct drive connection between the trigger bar and sear”

[Magsz]

I don't know that it had it's own thread, but when the Dropgate stuff was first going down BG was making statements on the social media about how it was a load of crap and he had a hand in the 320 development and it was perfectly drop safe and so were his kits for it. Believe it was talked about in the bigger dropgate threads.

Bruce is also the consummate shill...

After that whole debacle and the bullshit I went through with his P320 parts not working I decided that my money was better spent elsewhere.

Im on board with GJM's comments. The incremental performance "gain" gleaned from the installation of these parts is in my mind, not worth the money. Buy ammo, go to the range. Im not saying I wouldn't be interested in a trigger KIT for the P30, but just a short reset plate? Meh.

[Doc_Glock]

This is the most curious portion of the item’s properties


“Converts the action to drive the sear directly off the safety lever – instead of transferring energy through the drop safety catch – for a direct drive connection between the trigger bar and sear”

My first thought is: Why would HK design it to drive off the drop safety catch? No free lunch comes to mind.

[navyman8903]

I'm going to try this out but the price for what you get is keeping me from diving in like an excited kid doing a cannonball into a pool. I knew it was the catch that was making the slop and I had resolved this year to purchase a beater P30L and a few HK45 catches to try to figure out the tolerances to replace it so it was "factory" but not a million dollar part. I honestly think it's the length of the bars and size of the "eyelet" on the catch. But I'll have to compare them once I get them.

I have 3 P30's (P30L V1, P30SK V1, and P30LS V3) and my only problem is the reset. The stacking issue, more of a stall between the take up and small period of travel right before the wall. But the reset is the most important aspect for me because I'm a reset rider. Which is also why LEM is so good for me. But I think what I'm going to do is pick up one of these kits for my P30LS because it already has 3500 rounds through it which makes it "smooth", and put it in there to see if it's good enough to spend another $200 on my LEM guns.

$100 is a lot for what you get and I have spent more on triggers but they're much more substantial kits. This is literally one aftermarket part, and some standard HK parts. Good on them for figuring out the sticking point in the trigger system, but I bet I could pull out the stock unit, have it stoned within tolerances then have it NP3'ed. But we'll see I might be overestimating the simplicity of the work they've done here.

[Doc_Glock]

I'm going to try this out but the price for what you get is keeping me from diving in like an excited kid doing a cannonball into a pool. I knew it was the catch that was making the slop and I had resolved this year to purchase a beater P30L and a few HK45 catches to try to figure out the tolerances to replace it so it was "factory" but not a million dollar part. I honestly think it's the length of the bars and size of the "eyelet" on the catch. But I'll have to compare them once I get them.

You seem pretty edumacated on how this trigger works. I have taken them apart and swapped LEM for TDA triggers on the P30 system and see how it goes together, but I can't say I really understand the mechanics what actuates what and when. Can you explain it simply? Or do you know of a manual or video that explains it well?

Is there any problem driving the sear the way Gray Guns says they do?

[Doc_Glock]

I will take a shot at explaining.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190104/a97f8ba58cb59c11cd20ebf66db8624d.jpg

The trigger bar tab (red arrow) pulls on the the bottom of what HK calls the “control lever” (Red arrow). This rotates around the axis of the pin and several things happen consecutively and near simultaneously. The control lever pushes up on the firing pin block (blue arrow), and simultaneously pushes forward on a pin at the bottom of the the “hammer catch” which pivots down so the hammer can fall (green arrow). The hammer catch pushes the “release catch” (aka sear) forward releasing the hammer.

The GrayGuns part replaces the control lever. They claim it “Converts the action to drive the sear directly off the safety lever – instead of transferring energy through the drop safety catch – for a direct drive connection between the trigger bar and sear”

I think that means they don’t use the “control lever” to push the pin on the “hammer catch”, rather driving the hammer catch directly which then drives the sear.

I interpret their use of the term “drop safety catch” to mean the “control lever” which deactivates the firing pin block in the slide.

I have no idea if it is safe.

The back of the hammer catch is normally pushed up to “catch” the hammer on decocking by the sear spring.

Anyway it is a clever system. And it is relatively simple to take apart. But it ain’t a Glock.

[navyman8903]

You seem pretty edumacated on how this trigger works. I have taken them apart and swapped LEM for TDA triggers on the P30 system and see how it goes together, but I can't say I really understand the mechanics what actuates what and when. Can you explain it simply? Or do you know of a manual or video that explains it well?

Is there any problem driving the sear the way Gray Guns says they do?

As far as the second question I'm not sure yet. I have only seen it go one way. So long as it is able to move and reset without slapping anything or fatiguing the sear spring do to increased speed/changing the point of contact thus the actuation, I don't see a potential issue. But I'd have to mess with it or see how it interacted. Which will be difficult as you know having changed the parts yourself how small of a space we're talking about here, you have to really watch it, and the contact points are obscured because the action happens below all of the moving parts as you also know. But you'll know if it messes up the Sear spring because you'll get hammer follow if it does. If it smacks it out of line or fatigues it, that's what happens. IT happened to Todd Green in his LEM, I forget where in the test though.


As for the second part of the question, HK likes to be complicated but a smooth symphony of parts working together. I initially thought it was the trigger bar that made the whole interaction sloppy but it appears to be catch and that part of the sear group. A lot of people have made micro adjustments in the trigger feel with the light FPB and the Nickel coated sear spring. It would be easier to show you internally with a pistol apart. But if you take your slide off and hold the hammer with your thumb. You can reset the action by pressing the top part of the disconnector towards the right hand side with the pistol facing away from you. The part all the way towards the frame. That part has the eyelet sticking out that you can see and moves the most in the process with the pistol apart, it pretty much is completely responsible for starting to reset everything when the slide moves. The rest of the parts interface with it to get going. So I thought that eyelet which appeared to be larger was also the culprit. But The part they've engineered here controls most of the movement and is responsible for resetting the sear. The catch and control lever (which is the part Grayguns is providing) moves the sear around to interface with the sear spring located in the magazine well of the frame. By changing the geometry of the control lever or whatever they did, I have look at it more closely when I get it and compare the parts side by side.... but my guess is they changed the length of one of the arms which would shorten the overall travel of the sear mechanism allowing it to reset in the same physical space but change the rate/distance in which it does it. They also do that without chopping any springs which is nice because that was a Bill Springfield maneuver and when it came time to replace anything you'd undo his work. Plus the chopped springs caused reliability issues and messed with the system. I really don't like chopped springs.

Grayguns did it right, this is the part you want to change to effectively make this happen without messing with anything else. It also doesn't move that much, you can see it move when you mess with the trigger when the gun is apart. It maybe moves 10-15 degrees, possibly less than that I was being generous. Although I'm not sure how only coating the control lever will interact with the rest of the non-coated parts in the system. We'll see and I can't wait to get my hands on it. I'll do an install and comparison video with as much nerdy detail as possible.

[navyman8903]

I will take a shot at explaining.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190104/a97f8ba58cb59c11cd20ebf66db8624d.jpg

The trigger bar tab (red arrow) pulls on the the bottom of what HK calls the “control lever” (Red arrow). This rotates around the axis of the pin and several things happen consecutively and near simultaneously. The control lever pushes up on the firing pin block (blue arrow), and simultaneously pushes forward on a pin at the bottom of the the “hammer catch” which pivots down so the hammer can fall (green arrow). The hammer catch pushes the “release catch” (aka sear) forward releasing the hammer.

The GrayGuns part replaces the control lever. They claim it “Converts the action to drive the sear directly off the safety lever – instead of transferring energy through the drop safety catch – for a direct drive connection between the trigger bar and sear”

I think that means they don’t use the “control lever” to push the pin on the “hammer catch”, rather driving the hammer catch directly which then drives the sear.

I interpret their use of the term “drop safety catch” to mean the “control lever” which deactivates the firing pin block in the slide.

I have no idea if it is safe.

The back of the hammer catch is normally pushed up to “catch” the hammer on decocking by the sear spring.

Anyway it is a clever system. And it is relatively simple to take apart. But it ain’t a Glock.

I have to give you the nod Sir. You gave a proper operational explanation and provided a picture, with much more brevity.

[Doc_Glock]

After thinking about it and staring at the diagrams a while. The GrayGuns part takes put a portion of the back, bottom of the control lever to gain the reduced reset. Essentially they are lifting the firing pin block and pushing forward the hammer catch simultaneously while the stock part does this sequentially.

[navyman8903]

After thinking about it and staring at the diagrams a while. The GrayGuns part takes put a portion of the back, bottom of the control lever to gain the reduced reset. Essentially they are lifting the firing pin block and pushing forward the hammer catch simultaneously while the stock part does this sequentially.

I'm interested to see if it increases wear, and I agree with your assessment.

[JodyH]

Supposedly this is the Gray Guns control lever:

33856

Factory H&K:

33857

[navyman8903]

Supposedly this is the Gray Guns control lever:

33856

Factory H&K:

33857

The cuts are interesting. Based on the orientation of the picture, it's interesting to see where they relieved material. Especially the "bay" or "apex" of the bar between the right arm and bottom leg of the control lever. The most obvious is the bottom of the control lever, but the forward facing edge of the right arm of the control lever cut is interesting. I figured the cut on the bottom was the biggest, but the two other cuts/relief work in the other two spots I mentioned is interesting for sure. I'm curious to see how it runs. I'm going to try to do my best to do as detailed of an analysis as possible when I get mine in the mail. I might order a LEM kit as well.

[thward89]

Received and installed mine last night. Gun would not fire unless I applied pressure on the right side of the slide towards the left. Sent Grayguns an email with video. Won’t hear back until Monday.


https://youtu.be/dSIb_Tr2jLA

[ChaseN]

Received and installed mine last night. Gun would not fire unless I applied pressure on the right side of the slide towards the left. Sent Grayguns an email with video. Won’t hear back until Monday.


https://youtu.be/dSIb_Tr2jLA

Well I was incredible excited about this kit for my P30SK v1 but now I'm glad it sold out before I had the chance to order from the first batch. Think I'll be waiting to see multiple kits with 1k's of rounds through as I don't have a "spare" p30 to tinker with

[JodyH]

Gun would not fire unless I applied pressure on the right side of the slide towards the left.
Did you try dropping it?













:p

[CCT125US]

thward89 I bet this will be brought up, from the product page

Not saying it's right, but bet it will play.

"Disclaimer

These parts are intended for installation by a qualified armourer or gunsmith. In some cases professional fitting will be required by a trained, qualified armorer/gunsmith who is very familiar with the pistol’s action. This is due to the varying tolerances present in all mass-produced firearms. Although kits fit with no issues in a great majority of pistols, Grayguns is unable to guarantee perfect functionality in every instance. Grayguns does offer installation services for all parts kits we offer."

[thward89]

thward89 I bet this will be brought up, from the product page

Not saying it's right, but bet it will play.

"Disclaimer

These parts are intended for installation by a qualified armourer or gunsmith. In some cases professional fitting will be required by a trained, qualified armorer/gunsmith who is very familiar with the pistol’s action. This is due to the varying tolerances present in all mass-produced firearms. Although kits fit with no issues in a great majority of pistols, Grayguns is unable to guarantee perfect functionality in every instance. Grayguns does offer installation services for all parts kits we offer."

I’m guessing that too. Will be interested to see if this is a pattern or an anomaly.

[thward89]

Apparently the pin that comes with the kit needs to be installed but I cannot figure out where it installs. Anyone successfully installed one yet?

[Doc_Glock]

Apparently the pin that comes with the kit needs to be installed but I cannot figure out where it installs. Anyone successfully installed one yet?

Do you have a photo?

[Doc_Glock]

Received and installed mine last night. Gun would not fire unless I applied pressure on the right side of the slide towards the left. Sent Grayguns an email with video. Won’t hear back until Monday.


https://youtu.be/dSIb_Tr2jLA

I am sorry you are experiencing that. I don’t think there is a safety concern with this kit, but as you demonstrate, there may be a reliability concern.

Let us know what GrayGuns says.

[thward89]

Do you have a photo?

33895

It’s is the pin in the picture. It is smaller than the firing pin block pin.

[Doc_Glock]

33895

It’s is the pin in the picture. It is smaller than the firing pin block pin.

Not sure but probably replacement roll pin for the extractor or firing pin block? I doubt it has any bearing on your malfunction.

[22caliberKIDD]

Apparently the pin that comes with the kit needs to be installed but I cannot figure out where it installs. Anyone successfully installed one yet?

Is it to replace the pin that sticks out of the sear? I haven't had a chance to take mine apart but this was my first though. It makes sense as GG states they designed the control lever to directly trip the sear...this pin may be longer to reach the control lever.


https://i.imgur.com/9hdm9LE.jpg

[thward89]

Is it to replace the pin that sticks out of the sear? I haven't had a chance to take mine apart but this was my first though. It makes sense as GG states they designed the control lever to directly trip the sear...this pin may be longer to reach the control lever.


https://i.imgur.com/9hdm9LE.jpg

It is! Once I replaced that pin (which is a nightmare), everything is functioning as it should.

[fly out]

Initial thoughts?

[22caliberKIDD]

It is! Once I replaced that pin (which is a nightmare), everything is functioning as it should.

Awesome! Glad to hear it's up and running. What do you think of it?

I'm hoping to install mine soon.

[Coyote41]

It is! Once I replaced that pin (which is a nightmare), everything is functioning as it should.

Any tips on replacing the pin?

[Doc_Glock]

Is it to replace the pin that sticks out of the sear? I haven't had a chance to take mine apart but this was my first though. It makes sense as GG states they designed the control lever to directly trip the sear...this pin may be longer to reach the control lever.


https://i.imgur.com/9hdm9LE.jpg

Nice catch! Since the GG unit is driving the sear off the control lever, not the hammer catch, the longer pin must be an absolute requirement for that. I didn’t realize the stock pin didn’t reach that far.

So we are all clear. The parts stacked from left to right actuating the trigger in the HK are:

Sear(release catch), hammer catch, control lever, then disconnector.

The stock pin reaches across from the sear to the hammer catch. The GG pin bridges across the hammer catch to the new control lever.

[J0hnny]

I would have been all over this mod had it been released a year ago. I have questions regarding trigger work performed by GGI...

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?34552-HK-%93Reduced-Reset-Carry-Perfection%94

Apologies for thread drift, if any of you knowledgeable folks have any input your expertise is appreciated

[thward89]

Any tips on replacing the pin?

1/16th punch and patience.

[Duke]

I’m thinking more and more that this part is not worth the effort

[CCT125US]

Were there instructions provided for installation? Not trying to be snarky.

[thward89]

Were there instructions provided for installation? Not trying to be snarky.

No.

[22caliberKIDD]

Were there instructions provided for installation? Not trying to be snarky.

There weren't any included with the product nor any on their website. Two of the three parts had an obvious installation location, the pin was the head scratcher.

[Doc_Glock]

1/16th punch and patience.

Did removal destroy the stock pin?

[thward89]

Did removal destroy the stock pin?

Yes.

[CCT125US]

Just to clarify, as it is early and my coffee intake is low.... the roll pin provided is not a replacement for the FPB / drop safety catch, and the spring is not a replacement for the FPBSpring. But rather for the release catch and the trigger bar detent spring?

[Doc_Glock]

Just to clarify, as it is early and my coffee intake is low.... the roll pin provided is not a replacement for the FPB / drop safety catch, and the spring is not a replacement for the FPBSpring. But rather for the release catch and the trigger bar detent spring?

I can’t comment on the spring, but the pin appears to replace the pin on the release catch, correct.

[JohnK]

After much back and forth deliberation when I saw the advertisement, I settled on sticking with the OEM V1 parts. I feel like until these are vetted, I am better off.

[navyman8903]

So after reviewing everything, and not being able to see the video since I missed it and it is now taken down by the user........I'm guessing the part was either out of spec, or the install was jacked up somehow. I'm not making any assumptions or accusations.

Edit side note: I also think it's absolutely retarded they're selling a part with a disclaimer it might need to be fitted by a gunsmith. There is no call for having a "Drop in part" which they have custom relief cuts on and re-profield based on their specs, that should have to be fitted. I wouldn't know where the fuck to even begin to start working on it, let alone recoat it....... that was pretty fuckin dumb on their part. I don't care if Bruce Gray himself sees this and calls me out for it. It's piss poor. While HK has out of spec parts like say a trigger return spring or trigger bar (HKpro HK45c's come to mind with their false reset issue in the BE year group, and they've since fixed it) or the sear springs, I have never seen a control latch, catch, sear or disconnector out of spec. The gun wouldn't function, you would know immediately.

As for the pins, there is no pin out there what will have any bearing on the proper function of the HK pistol that you can't reuse if you do it properly. ESPECIALLY a solid pin like the one provided. Roll pins sure, solid axle pins like that? NOPE! The pin that goes through all of the associated sear parts I've reused on 5 HK trigger jobs now, they're all running deep into the thousands of rounds without issue and without backing out. Additionally if it is the detent spring you're referring to it shouldn't need to change that honestly if it's heavier it doesn't matter I also don't see how that would change literally anything.

I think Gray guns needs to step up and provide directions if there is none. I'm still waiting on mine to do a video and will make sure to check all of the pins and springs to see where they go. I will also test it extensively once assembled. If it's trash, I'll make sure to blast the hell out of it online. Same if it works, and I'll order the two for my LEM's.

While HK makes things complicated internally, every part has its place and is specially sized for an experienced HK armorer or kitchen table apprentice gunsmith who also happens to have a youtube channel..........

I'll do a step by step and y'all can also cross-examine my work after I post the video. I'll also set aside 500 rounds to do a burn down test fire my next day off duty.

[thward89]

Was able to take it to the range and test 100 rounds today. Zero issues so far. Saw marginal improvement on speed bulls at 15. It’s a nice upgrade. Overall, if reliability remains true, I will be happy with it.

[navyman8903]

Was able to take it to the range and test 100 rounds today. Zero issues so far. Saw marginal improvement on speed bulls at 15. It’s a nice upgrade. Overall, if reliability remains true, I will be happy with it.

I get mine tomorrow the USPS thing says.....idk why they took so long, but I'll have it in and ready for testing Saturday morning (I work nights).

[Duke]

I’ll be returning mine, unopened and installed.

[navyman8903]

I’ll be returning mine, unopened and installed.

Why is that?

[Duke]

Why is that?

Im happier with the gun with some reduced power springs and 100% function than I would be with probably 100% function and a shorter potential reset - which I don’t ride anyway

[navyman8903]

Im happier with the gun with some reduced power springs and 100% function than I would be with probably 100% function and a shorter potential reset - which I don’t ride anyway

That's fair.

[navyman8903]

Starting the job now.

For those wondering since the parts nomenclature and directions are 100% completely absent from the kit. You receive 1 recontoured/recoated control lever, 1 roll pin for the firing pin assembly incase you fuck up the swap (super easy no to, push it out from the inside up so you don't have to punch it out all the way) and 1 light firing pin block spring. Which is what the control lever interacts with as you pull the trigger which is why they include it. It's a $7 part off of HKparts, so probably a $3 part directly from HK or free if you call them enough possibly lol. The roll pin is also cheap as hell, so you're looking at an $85-90 control lever. Treat it with care.


Video, writeup and pictures to follow. 500 round burn down will happen probably sometime after this next weekend I have the chief's exam.......so I need to study.

[Coyote41]

Starting the job now.

For those wondering since the parts nomenclature and directions are 100% completely absent from the kit. You receive 1 recontoured/recoated control lever, 1 roll pin for the firing pin assembly incase you fuck up the swap (super easy no to, push it out from the inside up so you don't have to punch it out all the way) and 1 light firing pin block spring. Which is what the control lever interacts with as you pull the trigger which is why they include it. It's a $7 part off of HKparts, so probably a $3 part directly from HK or free if you call them enough possibly lol. The roll pin is also cheap as hell, so you're looking at an $85-90 control lever. Treat it with care.


Video, writeup and pictures to follow. 500 round burn down will happen probably sometime after this next weekend I have the chief's exam.......so I need to study.

That roll pin is not for the firing pin. Read the full thread.

[navyman8903]

That roll pin is not for the firing pin. Read the full thread.

You say that, but I'm not having any function issues, my gun is resetting fine. But I could take it apart and do it again to check but I've got to be honest I've never destroyed a pin removing anything on these guns. I can easily be wrong, but it doesn't seem to be a requirement.

But I'll look at it.

[navyman8903]

That roll pin is not for the firing pin. Read the full thread.

So........ after looking at it, there's zero length or contact issues. I see that the roll pin is narrower than originally assessed, so the intended use is almost certainly what y'all are saying. But I'm having zero contact issues. My internals look the same as far as the pin from the sear across all 3 of my P30s. You can't tell the difference. The only way you could tell is I didn't clean my P30LS as well as the others and the shine from the new control lever.


I don't doubt that's what it is for........ but I'm guessing I don't need it at all. IT's also not plated and honestly mine looks jenky as shit so..... I'm going to leave it as it came. If it breaks or fails y'all can call me retarded later. But there's zero length difference. The interface of the parts hasn't been changed in thickness or distance. So I don't see the issue here. Maybe I'm stupid, but there's zero issue.

I'll try to take pictures of all 3 of my P30's and you can tell me if there's a difference, but I see absolutely zero. (I'm not being shitty btw for clarity of tone in my response).

[GJM]

Threads like this underscore why I am very reluctant to buy used guns.

[navyman8903]

I can't tell you how fucking impossible it was to take these pictures. But please look at them and see they're all 3 the same length. The pin that contacts the control lever belongs to the cocking piece, not the sear. The sear pin is below it.


Please listen to "shitty recorder" while referencing my paint work. The Green arrow represents the control lever interface with the cocking piece pin which is integral to the cocking piece. And the red arrow represents the pin in the sear.


P30LS V3 with the Gray Guns part:
34204

P30L V1 stock
34205

P30SK V1 stock
34206



After all of this though, I think I know what Gray Guns was talking about with the "gunsmith fitting" portion. It isn't the control lever, it's the damn sear pin.

[navyman8903]

Threads like this underscore why I am very reluctant to buy used guns.

Listen, in my defense I was left unsupervised. :cool:



Also don't you have 19x's to cut down to 26 length or something ;)

[Coyote41]

Disclaimer: These are only my observations, all work should be done by a competent gunsmith and not at the guidance of someone on the internet.

This is how it appears to me (I do wish Gray Guns actually put out a little information on this kit):

It’s a tolerance thing. I have one P30L that works with only the lengthened release catch (also called the sear in this pistol). I have another that works without the lengthened pin. It could be the kit, as well, as they are two separate kits. The pins are not the same length, the supplied pin is very slightly longer. I would not trust using the kit without the supplied pin as your gun is now running on the very ragged edge of reliability.

In the pistol that “works” without the supplied pin the control lever (also called the catch in some diagrams) is still able to activate the sear, this is not the intended use of the kit, as the kit is designed to let the trigger bar directly drive the sear pin. Additionally from Gray Guns Website:

“ The parts provided – control catch, pin and spring – are designed to be installed together as a complete system.”

As of right now, I’m very skeptical of putting these into a carry pistol due to reliability issues.

[Coyote41]

One minor correction to my above post (I blame HK for constantly changing the name of their parts), in a properly working Gray Guns trigger, the trigger bar actuates the hammer catch, not the sear as I mistyped earlier.

[navyman8903]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qp3WsJ96P8

[hlb14]

Is the GG sear pin longer than the HK pin? Referring to P-series specifically.

[22caliberKIDD]

Is the GG sear pin longer than the HK pin? Referring to P-series specifically.

Yes.

https://i.imgur.com/fuRvlZJ.jpg

[Coyote41]

I mallet tested these for drop safety. They passed the mk I rubber mallet. I tested the FPB functionality using a punch to push the firing pin in (with the slide on the frame). It won’t push in unless the trigger is actuated. I’m still not sold on the reliability, but drop safety and mallet safety appear to be maintained. Examples tested used ALL provided parts.

[navyman8903]

So despite my reservations and proper function of my pistol. While pondering, I have decided to give this kit the best chance and install the provided sear pin. That way I can't say it was a lack of something from the provided kit and it was my decision that caused it to fail. I'm definitely not crazy about changing the sear pin.

I'll do another video and make sure to detail why I'm doing that.

[Balisong]

There is a thread on hkpro about this kit and quite a few people have installed it already. Also lots of discussion about that sear pin. One of the gray guns gunsmiths is also posting in that thread and answering questions.

[navyman8903]

There is a thread on hkpro about this kit and quite a few people have installed it already. Also lots of discussion about that sear pin. One of the gray guns gunsmiths is also posting in that thread and answering questions.

But not satisfactorily.

[JodyH]

But not satisfactorily.
That's the kind of customer service i'd expect from BG.

[22caliberKIDD]

Finally got around to installing the GG pin in my sear. I used a 1/16 punch and brass hammer to knock out the factory pin. I was able to get it out without destroying it or even leaving a mark. I installed the GG pin using a 3/32 roll pin punch. Again, easy going and went perfect.

Hopefully I'll get around to the complete install soon. The "hard'" part is done though.

[Coyote41]

250 rounds down range without problems in two P30Ls. Not really enough to tell anything other than I didn’t bugger the install.

Performance wise I felt like I could shoot faster without as much fear of trigger freeze.

[navyman8903]

250 rounds down range without problems in two P30Ls. Not really enough to tell anything other than I didn’t bugger the install.

Performance wise I felt like I could shoot faster without as much fear of trigger freeze.

I'm going to install the pin like I posted above before I go shooting to give it the best possible chance and to represent itself. I'm not having the trigger reset issue, but I want to head that off at the pass.

I did however order an HK armorer's puck and another P30 sear. 1. Because someone in the comments of my video told me I needed to get one....... 2. I got the sear to have a stock one available to replace if the kit does indeed fail.

[JodyH]

2. I got the sear to have a stock one available to replace if the kit does indeed fail.
Good plan.

[navyman8903]

I got it in there. When I do the range test I'll upload the part of the video where I installed the Sear pin to be 100% on the level.


Also good thing I'm resourceful, it wasn't difficult to extract with about 3 solid hits. I put the jenky end into the sear so the engagement with the rest of the internals will be solid and complete. But everything went smoothly overall.

Kitchen table gunsmith for the win!!

34289

[22caliberKIDD]

I finished the install today in a V3 P30L. I have to admit, I was impressed. The reset was obviously shortened and so is the distance needed to return to the SA "wall". It feels good. The difference is very noticeable to me. If I hadnt already been told it reduced the reset by 1/3, Id have guessed 1/2.

I took it to the range and fired 200 rounds with zero problems. I can't think of any reasons why there would be any long term issues. Worth the $$ IMO.

[22caliberKIDD]

Now that the GG short reset kit has been out for a while, anyone else get a chance to install and test it out?

I was able to get another brief range session in. I'm at about 500 rounds fired with the kit installed. Zero malfunctions or issues of any kinds. Im impressed.

I used to really notice the trigger reset, both during slow and rapid fire, not anymore though. My rapid fire groups seem to be smaller in diameter and faster as well.

[navyman8903]

OKAY!

I put 150 rounds through it. By no means does this call it good. I'm going to continue to put rounds through it obviously and I did plan on more rounds.....things happen. What I was able to do is shoot it back to back with my HK45, P30L V1, and HK USP9SD with a mostly match trigger kit in it. 150 rounds doesn't make me an authority on this trigger, but I have about 6000 rounds on the P30 platform through all of the P30s I own/owned. So an improved trigger will be easily spotted.


First off I really like the kit and it hasn't given me any issues. I really has increased my speed and slightly cleaned up my follow up shot accuracy in quick shot strings. Slow fire is obviously not a factor. Based on the pistols I compared it to, I will say it is now it is a c hair away from the HK45 trigger. The USP9 SD was close also, but the reset is more authoritative in the HK45's and P30s. I will say the P30L V1 had a longer reset, but the trigger flowed easier as an LEM with the longer reset vs a stock V3. .

I really like this kit, and it does some hard changes vs cutting springs. Which makes me happier for sure. I will say I'm still pissed at Gray guns for the price and lack of nomenclature on the kit. It made me look pretty fucking stupid, and I hate looking stupid lol. But in all honesty I would feel much better at the $60-75 price point. But they're also competing against themselves, so that explains the $100 price point. They evaluated the cost of the parts as they would install them, then factored how many trigger jobs this would cost them. Because there's lots of dudes out there like me that want to drop something in and not lose their gun for months to get something back with possibly less reliability due to competition parts.


Gray guns still up to their antics, but they did good with this kit SO FAR. I reserve the right to change my mind as the round count increases. I will be taking it out again exclusively here soon. And I plan to take it, and the P30L V1 as a back up if it fails, to a class (500-600 rounds). We'll see how she performs. So far, if it holds up I'll be smitten like a kitten in a mitten. IT gave me what I was looking for without changing spring weights (yes I know the LFBS, but that doesn't really count ((I also didn't notice a real difference in performance after installing it btw)).

[CCT125US]

Any updates or observations on this?

[ChaseN]

I've had a back-in-stock alert set for the p2000 version of the kit since day two of this thread. I just double checked and it's still on the website, out of stock. There was so much bad initial press here and on HKPro that I'm wondering if they are radically redesigning it or quietly discontinued it altogether and haven't pulled it from the website.

Gray Guns used to be one of those buy first ask questions later companies like JMCK or Apex, shame :(

[CCT125US]

I've had a back-in-stock alert set for the p2000 version of the kit since day two of this thread. I just double checked and it's still on the website, out of stock. There was so much bad initial press here and on HKPro that I'm wondering if they are radically redesigning it or quietly discontinued it altogether and haven't pulled it from the website.

Gray Guns used to be one of those buy first ask questions later companies like JMCK or Apex, shame :(

Was it:

Faulty parts
Missing instructions
Over promised performance
Installer error

From my observations, the missing instructions seemed to be the sticking point. Am I missing something?

[ChaseN]

Was it:

Faulty parts
Missing instructions
Over promised performance
Installer error

From my observations, the missing instructions seemed to be the sticking point. Am I missing something?

Honestly I simply noticed a couple guns go tits up and figure I'll wait to see how the next batch goes for those customers.

[CCT125US]

Honestly I simply noticed a couple guns go tits up and figure I'll wait to see how the next batch goes for those customers.

Hmmm, wonder what caused the issues. Would they have failed if proper instructions were provided? Not defending GG, as I have zero products from them. The whole drop gate thing is another issue. I have a number of Sig products I really want to buy, but simply will not give them money.

[22caliberKIDD]

Hmmm, wonder what caused the issues. Would they have failed if proper instructions were provided? Not defending GG, as I have zero products from them. The whole drop gate thing is another issue. I have a number of Sig products I really want to buy, but simply will not give them money.

It was the lack of instructions from everything I've seen. People didn't know what to do with the small pin in the kit so the simply didn't install it. The kit won't function properly without it. Once they found out where the pin went and installed it, their pistols started working properly again.

The GG pin needs to be installed in the sear in place of the factory pin which is slightly shorter.

I've been following this topic closely on multiple forums. This is the only issue I've read about.

I have the kit installed and am very impressed.

[Bill]

Granted, I rode on the coattails of early adopters, so I knew what I was doing when my kit showed up, but:

Kit installed easy, including the sear pin which knocked out without damage, and reinstalled the new pin without issue. No special tools, just a 2x4 with a hole drilled in it, and a couple punches. Results have been great. About 500 rounds in without complication. Reset reduced by half, including dramatically reduced slop after reset. I'm a happy guy. I don't ride the reset/pin the trigger, but overall trigger travel is still a thing, and the final outcome gives my P30L a much more similar overall travel profile to my USP. It is pricier than I'd like, but I get R&D costs are a thing. . . and to be honest I'd probably buy it again if I ended up with another P30 series. YMMV. I'll do my best to report back in the event any issues arise down the road.

[spartacus2002]

I installed this kit in a USP .45. The pin is to replace the pin in the sear, which punched out easily using a roll pin punch. The pin in the kit is slightly longer than the stock pin, maybe by 1mm. But I only found this out through internet research; instructions in the kit would have been nice to have.

I absolutely LOVE this kit. I had replaced the TRS, hammer mainspring, and sear spring with match parts, but still had a lot of forward travel on the trigger in SA mode before it reset, then a lot of take-up from reset to firing. The Short Reset kit eliminated ALL of that travel. Reset is short and crisp, with no takeup in the trigger pull before firing again.

There was one place that had them in stock (Top Gun Supply) for the USPs, and apparently now they are sold out again.

[Coyote41]

Putting in an update.

The two I’ve been using since January are holding up 100%. Though due to injuries, I haven’t put as many rounds down range as normal.

I ordered a third today that is supposed to be compatible with the CDA 4.1. I’ve modified my P2000 trigger to accept the 4.1 “medium” P30 spring (modified trigger as well as the spring). I’ll post another update when I get them installed and get a good range session in.

[Irelander]

I figure it's been long enough since you guys have installed this short reset kit to have vetted it pretty well. Just looking for some updates regarding the quality of this kit after lots of rounds fired. I'm thinking of putting this kit in my EDC LEM P2000SK. Any user updates will be appreciated.

Coyote41
spartacus2002
Bill
navyman8903
Others...

[spartacus2002]

I figure it's been long enough since you guys have installed this short reset kit to have vetted it pretty well. Just looking for some updates regarding the quality of this kit after lots of rounds fired. I'm thinking of putting this kit in my EDC LEM P2000SK. Any user updates will be appreciated.

Others...

I've only fired a few hundred rounds, and it's held up fine with no problems.

[Sig_Fiend]

I have just over 1 year on 2 of them. One in a P30 LEM with 4.1ch setup. The other in an HK45 LEM. I have right around 2K through the P30 with the GGI short reset kit. I have about 1K through the HK45 as well. So 3K rounds over 2 units. Not a massive round count, but not nothing either. Not a single issue, sign of abnormal wear or anything. Honestly, judging by the quality of materials, I feel like the components can only be an improvement and potentially more durable in the long run.

In terms of trigger pull characteristics, I like the GGI kit so much, every compatible HK I buy is going to get one. Since I'm a long time Glock shooter, I'm used to a short reset, and tend to short stroke longer DAO triggers. I had that issue with both of these HKs. With the GGI kits, it eliminated that issue for me with each gun. I did feel like the HK45 trigger was ever so slightly better in terms of the actual break.

Oh man, and this is off-topic I guess but, wait until you try the GGI short reset kit with one of their flat triggers. It's phenomenal IMO, at least in so far as a DAO trigger can be.

69009

69010

[CCT125US]

Sig_Fiend

That second picture, is that just before hammer fall? Looks like trigger would be vertical at break?

[Irelander]

69010

Flat HK trigger....WHAT?! :D

[Sig_Fiend]

Yep, that second pic is with the trigger right at the breakpoint. This one is immediately after the break:

69019

It's pretty awesome IMO. ;) For reference, here's the GGI P30 Straight Trigger (https://grayguns.com/product/hk-p30-straight-trigger/).

[javemtr]

Excellent to see some pictures of the flat trigger. For LEM, how awkward is the trigger angle at the very beginning of the take up phase, when the trigger is all the way forward?

[Sig_Fiend]

Excellent to see some pictures of the flat trigger. For LEM, how awkward is the trigger angle at the very beginning of the take up phase, when the trigger is all the way forward?

That was my initial concern before purchasing it. For a full weight DA pull, it might be a little less than ideal, but still a livable compromise for the awesome SA pull. With a light LEM, the initial pre-travel is light enough that the angle is just not a big deal. Although I have yet to measure it in this context, it has helped improve the consistency of my trigger manipulation on the press-out in some tangible way that's definitely real for me.

[Wendell]

Who hasn’t defended their own position on a issue knowing full well they may be wrong?

There was no 'may' about it, they already knew about the safety issues because of the military trials, where the safety issues had been identified, and where they'd made the changes to the military versions.

There was no intention to incur the costs of a product recall, however, so - when the word started to leak out - all those responsible just surrounded the wagons, and lied.

A * B * C = X


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA2EBWFCULg

[navyman8903]

I figure it's been long enough since you guys have installed this short reset kit to have vetted it pretty well. Just looking for some updates regarding the quality of this kit after lots of rounds fired. I'm thinking of putting this kit in my EDC LEM P2000SK. Any user updates will be appreciated.

Coyote41
spartacus2002
Bill
navyman8903
Others...

I've got over 1500 rounds on the short reset drop in on my P30LS and I have zero issues with it. I'm about to drop it into my standard P30 here soon. I already have the kit on standby, just need some time to get it done. Highly recommend the trigger kit. Make sure you put in the sear roll pin. I also like it because you can not install the light FBS and the kit runs perfectly. I don't think there's any negatives to this kit at all. I've let a few others shoot it and they've enjoyed it as much as I have. That's HK shooters and Non-HK owners or shooters.

[Sauer Koch]

Does anyone (reputable) make a flat trigger for the P2000?

[Sig_Fiend]

Does anyone (reputable) make a flat trigger for the P2000?

Not that I know of, yet. I heard from GGI that they have plans to make them for the P2000 as well as the HK45. No word on timeline for that though, but promising to hear!

[MasterBlaster]

I figure it's been long enough since you guys have installed this short reset kit to have vetted it pretty well. Just looking for some updates regarding the quality of this kit after lots of rounds fired. I'm thinking of putting this kit in my EDC LEM P2000SK. Any user updates will be appreciated.

Coyote41
spartacus2002
Bill
navyman8903
Others...

I have installed it into the P30, P30L, and P30SK (all V3). I easily have over 2000 rounds through each of the P30 and P30L guns since installation, and probably about 500 through the P30SK, which I do not shoot much. In my experience the shortened reset can shave about .02-.03 seconds off splits, down to about 0.16 - 0.17s for me.

[Irelander]

Got my GGI short reset kit today and installed it on my P2000SK V2. Reset feels very natural now in dry fire. Will hopefully walk out to the range tomorrow and try it out if it ever stops raining here.

I must say the kit is muy expensive for what you get and I most likely would not have spent the money but the company I work for handed out COVID appreciation bonuses recently so I figured I'd give this kit a try. Thanks COVID-19!

Thanks to navyman8903 for his installation video.