Full Size 9mm for Home Defense ?'s

[boatbum101]

Full Size 9mm Pistols for Home Defense
As stated these will be for inside the home self defense . For CCW one might arguably want a smaller gun . As of now I've 4 .357 mags in that role that I wish to replace . If you've ever had the need to cut loose with a .357 indoors you get my point . Rest of the uninvited guest greeters will be 1911's in 45acp .
My criteria is full size , 9mm +p capable , visible good sights , a decent trigger & it must fit my hand & not a 1911. Subjective as most things are about a handgun . Not crazy about DA/SA nor do Glocks fit my hand . What I've found so far :
1) Walther PPQ M2 5” upgraded Dawson sights , damn good trigger for striker gun .
2) Canik TP9SF Elite 4.5” , Warne Tactical sights , even nicer trigger than Walther . Have heard these have problems with breaking firing pins , plus they're imported by Century .
3) HK VP9 4 or 5” . Haven't had the chance to check one of these out yet , but have heard they're nice .
4) Steyr L or M9 , again aint had my mitts on one either . Low bore axis , different sights for sure . Have heard grip is like trying to hold a 2 X 4 .
I'm sure there's other choices , but I don't want to have to do action work , replace sights etc. to get what I want . Any suggestions ?

[Duelist]

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-9-m20

I held some auditions here a few months ago. If I were looking at getting into a different platform, this is what I would get: an M&P 2.0 5" for games and HD, and a compact for carry.

The only reason I'm not doing it at this point? No SCD or hammer. A more minor reason is GLOCK magazines can't be over-inserted if you use an extra length one. But the big reason is the SCD/hammer issue. So, I will stick with GLOCK and TDA.

[TGS]

If you're satisfied with using your revolvers and just don't like the concussion of the 357, I think the most reasonable answer is simply to switch your ammunition to a modern 38 Special JHP, such as 130gr Winchester Ranger Bonded (RA38B).

[LockedBreech]

The Smith M2.0s are my favorite as well. I really hope one day they do the 5" in Black. I have $500 set aside literally just for it. WTF S&W.

The one I'd knock off your list immediately is Canik. You just won't get the quality or parts support you will with your other brands.

The second I'd knock off is Steyr. Nicer than Canik but, again, minimal aftermarket support.

HK and Walther are both good choices. Add S&W, Beretta, and Glock to the mix and you'll be picking something reputable, well made, with a good support structure behind it.

[ragnar_d]

Of the two, I'd lean towards the Walther PPQ or the VP9. I've got each at the office and, if I had to do it all over again, I might have a safe full of PPQs instead of Glocks. The VP9 is a good option as well. Only downside to both is cost of magazines (each gun I have has 10 magazines per, that's a substantial investment for the either platform).

I wouldn't bet my life on a Canik and I don't know enough about the Steyr to offer a valid opinion. Outside of that, TGS offers a valid (and much more economical) solution. RA38B is not slouch, especially if it's coming out of a 3-4" barrel vs. a snub nose barrel.

[HCountyGuy]

I’d go with either the M&P 2.0 5-inch or a VP9-B.

[Duelist]

If you're satisfied with using your revolvers and just don't like the concussion of the 357, I think the most reasonable answer is simply to switch your ammunition to a modern 38 Special JHP, such as 130gr Winchester Ranger Bonded (RA38B).

Very reasonable: load it with something not .357. I like my revolvers very much, but the .357 ones rarely get any magnum ammo.

[revchuck38]

Of the pistols you've named, I only have experience with the Steyr. I had the 40 S&W version. The grip is actually quite nice. The grip angle is more radical than most pistols but nothing you can't get used to. The sights are pyramid-shaped rather than the usual post-and-notch setup. The pistol itself is quite accurate. I'd be comfortable with one as a house gun.

You might want to think some more about a DA/SA pistol. Since you're used to the revolver's DA trigger stroke, you've got the harder part down already. The DA-to-SA transition takes some getting used to but is fairly easily trained.

Another option is to keep using the .357s but instead of going to .38 +P, try one of the lower-powered .357s like Speer's 135-grain Short-Barrel Gold Dot or Remington's 125-grain Golden Sabre. The noise level will be less than the full-power loads.

[OlongJohnson]

Hard to beat this deal with the $2/box mfr. rebate going for the next few months. It'll still work just fine in non-short barrels.

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/speer-gold-dot-le-duty-38-special-short-barrel-ammo-135-grain-jhp-53921-p-54163.aspx


But I'm curious why, as a revolver and 1911 shooter, you're not interested in a DA/SA gun. Seems like you'd be able to train up to it pretty easily.

If you want a high-capacity, 9mm service pistol with a revolver-like trigger, you might consider either a Sig P250 or Beretta 92D, both of which can be had fairly cheaply on GunBroker. The Beretta is reliable with 18-round mags.

[pangloss]

How about a Beretta PX4 Type C? You get a hammer, but it's not a traditional DA/SA action.

For striker-fired pistols, I shoot Glocks, but I'm very curious about the Beretta APX and CZ P-10.

Regarding the Walther PPQ, I think some members are skeptical of them for defensive use because of how easily the striker is released, resulting in a dead trigger, when the pistol is jarred. If you're seriously considering that pistol, I would look up those posts before making a purchase.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

[TheNewbie]

The Smith M2.0s are my favorite as well. I really hope one day they do the 5" in Black. I have $500 set aside literally just for it. WTF S&W.

The one I'd knock off your list immediately is Canik. You just won't get the quality or parts support you will with your other brands.

The second I'd knock off is Steyr. Nicer than Canik but, again, minimal aftermarket support.

HK and Walther are both good choices. Add S&W, Beretta, and Glock to the mix and you'll be picking something reputable, well made, with a good support structure behind it.


The 5" in black would be awesome. That and a full size safety on the Shield.

[Canyonrat]

Being used to revolvers is one of the reasons to give DA/SA action a chance in a semiauto. My at-the-ready home pistol used to be a Ruger .357 Magnum, right now it’s a Beretta 92A1. 3x the capacity in my hand, much quicker to a follow-up shot. Stock hammer springs provide a heavy DA pull but that is an inexpensive thing to replace for lighter if desired. Reliability, you can bet your life on it.

[Bigghoss]

Can't go wrong with anything H&K. Also take a look at the M&P line of pistols. Those are the only two that fit your criteria that I know anything about.

[HCM]

Full Size 9mm Pistols for Home Defense
As stated these will be for inside the home self defense . For CCW one might arguably want a smaller gun . As of now I've 4 .357 mags in that role that I wish to replace . If you've ever had the need to cut loose with a .357 indoors you get my point . Rest of the uninvited guest greeters will be 1911's in 45acp .
My criteria is full size , 9mm +p capable , visible good sights , a decent trigger & it must fit my hand & not a 1911. Subjective as most things are about a handgun . Not crazy about DA/SA nor do Glocks fit my hand . What I've found so far :
1) Walther PPQ M2 5” upgraded Dawson sights , damn good trigger for striker gun .
2) Canik TP9SF Elite 4.5” , Warne Tactical sights , even nicer trigger than Walther . Have heard these have problems with breaking firing pins , plus they're imported by Century .
3) HK VP9 4 or 5” . Haven't had the chance to check one of these out yet , but have heard they're nice .
4) Steyr L or M9 , again aint had my mitts on one either . Low bore axis , different sights for sure . Have heard grip is like trying to hold a 2 X 4 .
I'm sure there's other choices , but I don't want to have to do action work , replace sights etc. to get what I want . Any suggestions ?

Of your choices, I recommend the VP9 and the Walther in that order.

The Canik has more issues than just breaking Firing pins. As for the Styer, uncommon guns are uncommon for a reason.

Suggestions:

1) TGS’suggestion to load your 357s with .38 or .38 +P - shot placement > caliber / round etc.

2) Since you seem interested in striker fired / polymer frame guns, other options are the HK USP, USP compacts ,P30S and P30LS, polymer framed hammer fired guns which can be carried “cocked and locked” like your 1911s. In striker fired guns the M&P series and the SIG p320 /M17 are both well vetted and also availible with optional thumb safeties.

3) Since you are updating your dedicated home defense gun it is an opportunity to add a weapons mounted light (WML). A WML is not a necessity but a flashlight of some type is. We have both a legal and moral obligation to positively identify threats, even in our own homes. A WML just gives you that ability in one “grab and go” package.

[O4L]

M&P 2.0 would be my recommendation.

I have a Gen 5 Glock that I like very well but if it weren't for that I would go with M&P.

[FPS]

I concur with HCM - I have both and slightly prefer the VP9 to the PPQ and trust it more in the reliability department. Walther just doesnt have the track record of HK. PPQ grip and trigger are fantastic.

[Bucky]

I’d check out the Beretta APX as well. I like it better than a VP9.

[HCM]

I’d check out the Beretta APX as well. I like it better than a VP9.

They are neat guns but not quite as fully vetted as I would like. Same for the CZ p10 series.

[Drang]

...My criteria is ... it must fit my hand....

What does this mean?
Are you talking about how it "feels" in your hand in the gun shop, or are your hands larger or smaller than average and you have trouble reaching triggers and other controls?
Have you tried shooting (for example) Glocks?
Do you have trouble controlling them?
Or are you just concerned about how comfortably it sits on your hand?

[olstyn]

Walther just doesnt have the track record of HK.

That is an interesting statement, given that the PPQ has been on the market for 3 years longer than the VP9 (2011 vs 2014), and since the mid '90s if you count the P99, which is essentially a more complex (DA/SA) version of the PPQ action, from which the PPQ was developed. If you're referring to the length of time each company has been producing reliable pistols, well, they both have a long history, so...?

[JAH 3rd]

I know you asked for full-size, but I like my HK P2000 with DA/SA trigger. Barrel is 3.6" which makes it versatile for carry/concealment as well. it's 13+1, so capacity is acceptable. Nine hundred trouble-free rounds through it so far!

[awp_101]

I'm guessing an MP5K has already been ruled out?

[JonInWA]

I'm surprised this option has gone unmentioned so far-P30 with V1 or V2 LEM. Superb ergos, hammer-fired, and an action your revolver-trained hand should segue nicely into. Available in multiple size options; P30, P30L P30SK.

Best, Jon

[psalms144.1]

Of the pistols you listed, I'd opt for the VP9. Since you've stated you don't want a DA/SA, I won't echo the suggestions of a P30L, CZ P07, Px4, etc. I will echo the recommendation for the M&P 2.0 FS, great gun and if I weren't so heavily invested in Glocks, I'd probably use the M&P as my "go to."

I was very impressed with the accuracy and shootability of the CZ P10C - and a full size version should be available after SHOT. But, as previously mentioned, they haven't been around long enough to establish a track record or a lot of after market support.

[ragnar_d]

Of your choices, I recommend the VP9 and the Walther in that order.

The Canik has more issues than just breaking Firing pins. As for the Styer, uncommon guns are uncommon for a reason.

Damn, that made me think of Tam's post on the Steyr. I remember her posts on them being a finnicky piece of ballistic hardware (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2016/05/well-that-wasnt-problem.html). I think she had a Canik that was problematic too.

[Tamara]

Damn, that made me think of Tam's post on the Steyr. I remember her posts on them being a finnicky piece of ballistic hardware (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2016/05/well-that-wasnt-problem.html). I think she had a Canik that was problematic too.

That's one of the only pistols that caused me to abort a 2k before I was even half done.

There's been an extractor upgrade since then, but I lost the ability to care already.

Funnily enough, when I asked the guy at the Steyr booth at NRAAM, he fed me some story about how "This is an Austrian pistol, see, built to European tolerances and quality control, so it's not gonna like bad ammo. You have to feed it quality ammunition." and I'm thinking "You know what else is made in Austria and will run on about any garbage I can cram into the magazine?"

[JonInWA]

That's one of the only pistols that caused me to abort a 2k before I was even half done.

There's been an extractor upgrade since then, but I lost the ability to care already.

Funnily enough, when I asked the guy at the Steyr booth at NRAAM, he fed me some story about how "This is an Austrian pistol, see, built to European tolerances and quality control, so it's not gonna like bad ammo. You have to feed it quality ammunition." and I'm thinking "You know what else is made in Austria and will run on about any garbage I can cram into the magazine?"

I had some ejection/extraction/feeding issues with an early M40, and that was after Steyr had performed an upgrade...Interesting guns, and I really didn't have any issues with the sights, but my skepticism on Willi Bubits designed guns (Steyr, Caracel) and their track records when fielded led me to quickly pass over any consideration for the improved Steyr M-A1 or L-A1 when I was casting about for a new .40 polymer-framed duty/concealed carry/IDPA CCP/SSP pistol a year or so back-I ended up choosing an HK VP40, which has turned out to be a stellar pistol.

As have all my Glocks in 9mm, .40, and .45.

Best, Jon

[Tamara]

And my Canik TP9 was a dumpster fire. It's one thing for HK to sell a gun that's iffy with lightly-loaded range fodder, but to sell a budget gun that needs primo ammunition to function right doesn't strike me as good thinking.

[Doc_Glock]

My Steyr M9 was a beautiful shooting pistol and had very few bobbles in a 2k challenge. I think they are generally good to go. But I no longer own it because I didn’t care for its rarity.

The PPQ is another beautiful shooting, quality gun that I also no longer own any examples of (that includes P99s). The ability to drop the striker is a complete joke and unacceptable for a self defense gun.

PPQ and Steyr would tie for best triggers ever in a striker gun. They both shoot great but the Steyr shoots better.

The OP is likely no longer with us, but of his choices I would pick the VP9. The Canik is a joke.

The correct answer, though is a bunch of disposable, non hand fitting Glocks.

The correct answer is also home carry instead of stashing a bunch of guns, possibly (likely?) unsecured about the house.

[BN]

A buddy is shooting a Canik in the local matches. I'm not sure he has gotten through a match yet without malfunctions.

My bedside pistol is a Gen 3 Glock 17 with Ameriglo Tritium sights, Crimson Trace laser grips and a mounted light.

If I ever had to choose any pistol to go in harms way, without any chance to test it, only load it put in my holster, it would be a Glock 17. Any Gen, just a Glock 17.

[Sasage]

The PPQ M2 was probably the most accurate and easily to shoot gun I have owned. It was larger than I wanted to carry however and after bouncing around have landed on the MP 2.0 Compacts.

The price is right, good aftermarket support with accessories and is relatively simple. (Not Glock simple however.)

I can honestly say that I don't foresee myself looking for anything hand gun anytime soon unless it's just for "fun."

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[LockedBreech]

And my Canik TP9 was a dumpster fire. It's one thing for HK to sell a gun that's iffy with lightly-loaded range fodder, but to sell a budget gun that needs primo ammunition to function right doesn't strike me as good thinking.

Reminds me of the Kimber Solo. Our gun is super reliable with these 4 cartridges that cost $50 a box. Only this weight. Only at this time of day. Only this pressure. Super reliable.

Nah bro, if your gun won’t run with 90% of what’s on store shelves, your gun is unreliable.

An old coworker showed me his new TP9SF all proud a few weeks ago. Said he didn’t wanna just have a Glock like everyone else. I smiled and said nice, be sure to train with it. In my head I was screaming JUST CALL ME FIRST, THERE’S A REASON EVERYONE ELSE OWNS A GLOCK.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rex G]

Full Size 9mm Pistols for Home Defense
As stated these will be for inside the home self defense . For CCW one might arguably want a smaller gun . As of now I've 4 .357 mags in that role that I wish to replace . If you've ever had the need to cut loose with a .357 indoors you get my point . Rest of the uninvited guest greeters will be 1911's in 45acp .


I am trying to dissect the above part. I understand that the concussion of .357 Magnum loads is undesirable when indoors.

Does “Rest of the uninvited guest greeters will be 1911’s,” mean that you have 1911 pistols? If so, why add another system to the mix?

When my preferred duty and/or carry handguns were .357 Magnum revolvers, I considered a 1911, .45 ACP, to be a quite good “house” handgun.

[JonInWA]

And, as TGS and others have cogently suggested, if the OP's muscle memory is significantly established with .357 revolvers, it would likely make a lot of sense sticking with revolvers stoked with quality, credible .38 Special +P cartridges, or .357 Magnum "light."

Especially for home defense, I just don't see much of a downside to a quality revolver with decent sights and a speedloader or two handy. And a decent tanker or shoulder holster can be a convenient way to holster/re-holster over one's jammies in the dark of the night if necessary.

Best, Jon

[Rex G]

Full Size 9mm Pistols for Home Defense
My criteria is full size , 9mm +p capable , visible good sights , a decent trigger & it must fit my hand & not a 1911. Subjective as most things are about a handgun . Not crazy about DA/SA nor do Glocks fit my hand . What I've found so far :
1) Walther PPQ M2 5” upgraded Dawson sights , damn good trigger for striker gun .
2) Canik TP9SF Elite 4.5” , Warne Tactical sights , even nicer trigger than Walther . Have heard these have problems with breaking firing pins , plus they're imported by Century .
3) HK VP9 4 or 5” . Haven't had the chance to check one of these out yet , but have heard they're nice .
4) Steyr L or M9 , again aint had my mitts on one either . Low bore axis , different sights for sure . Have heard grip is like trying to hold a 2 X 4 .
I'm sure there's other choices , but I don't want to have to do action work , replace sights etc. to get what I want . Any suggestions ?

OK, looking at 9mm pistols in isolation, I do understand the part about Glocks not fitting, as that is true, for me, of pre-Gen4 Glocks, and plenty of other weapons do not fit me. (Long, but narrow hands, medium-length fingers, and relatively short thumbs.)

I have no hands-on experience with any of the weapons you listed, except for briefly handling a PPQ at a gun shop. Largely, this is because I worked as a police officer for almost 34 years, and from 1997 onward, until I retired this year, the weapons I was allowed to carry for “primary duty” was limited, and I had learned, by the mid-Nineties, to limit the number of handgun systems I used, if I wanted to develop a high level of skill with any of them.

If you are comfortable with DA revolvers, well, the SIG DAK trigger does a very good job of pretending to be a smooth S&W medium-frame revolver trigger. I chose the SIG P229R DAK, to be my duty pistol, from 2004 to 2015, switching from a G22. (I then switched back to Glock, but a 9mm G19, when my chief OK’ed 9mm to be an alternative duty pistol cartridge, as .40 Snap & Whip was becoming a bit much for my aging hands.) The classic SIG pistols, however, all have a high bore axis.

Really, however, the quickest way to have the equivalent of 9mm +P handguns, is to load a good .38 Special +P load into each of your .357 Magnum revolvers, as TGS recommended.

[JSGlock34]

I can recommend both the VP9 and PPQ; I give a slight edge to the VP9 but either is a quality choice. I thought they were very similar to each other (I found they can even share some holsters). At the end of the day, I'm not too crazy about fully tensioned strikers, and neither supplanted the Glock for me. Since then I've adopted the GEN5 Glock 17 and 19, and haven't looked back.

I personally think a Glock GEN5 (whether the 17/19/45) with the Ameriglo Bold sights (SKUs PA1750303AB/PA1950303AB/PA455S303AB) are the best out-of-the-box solutions for self defense pistols. If you haven't tried a GEN5, you may find the lack of finger grooves an improvement for your grip over previous Glock generations.

[jetfire]

Full Size 9mm Pistols for Home Defense
As stated these will be for inside the home self defense . For CCW one might arguably want a smaller gun . As of now I've 4 .357 mags in that role that I wish to replace . If you've ever had the need to cut loose with a .357 indoors you get my point . Rest of the uninvited guest greeters will be 1911's in 45acp .
My criteria is full size , 9mm +p capable , visible good sights , a decent trigger & it must fit my hand & not a 1911. Subjective as most things are about a handgun . Not crazy about DA/SA nor do Glocks fit my hand . What I've found so far :
1) Walther PPQ M2 5” upgraded Dawson sights , damn good trigger for striker gun .
2) Canik TP9SF Elite 4.5” , Warne Tactical sights , even nicer trigger than Walther . Have heard these have problems with breaking firing pins , plus they're imported by Century .
3) HK VP9 4 or 5” . Haven't had the chance to check one of these out yet , but have heard they're nice .
4) Steyr L or M9 , again aint had my mitts on one either . Low bore axis , different sights for sure . Have heard grip is like trying to hold a 2 X 4 .
I'm sure there's other choices , but I don't want to have to do action work , replace sights etc. to get what I want . Any suggestions ?

The Canik is trash and good luck finding mags or parts for the Steyr. The HK and the Walther are fine, flip a coin and pick whichever one you want.

[DocGKR]

What pistols have proven adequate for prolonged duty use?

If you want striker fired, then Glock, M&P 2.0 w/safety, VP9 would be my first choices; for a DA/SA then Beretta 92, Beretta PX4, HK P30 would be high on the list.

Honestly, just get three identical 9 mm pistols (one for training, one for carry, one for bu &/or home use), be it G19's, M&P 2.0 compacts, PX4 compacts, and call it a day, as one pistol type like that will do both CCW and home use adequately...

[JBP55]

I concur with HCM - I have both and slightly prefer the VP9 to the PPQ and trust it more in the reliability department. Walther just doesnt have the track record of HK. PPQ grip and trigger are fantastic.

I concur.

[LSP552]

A buddy is shooting a Canik in the local matches. I'm not sure he has gotten through a match yet without malfunctions.

My bedside pistol is a Gen 3 Glock 17 with Ameriglo Tritium sights, Crimson Trace laser grips and a mounted light.

If I ever had to choose any pistol to go in harms way, without any chance to test it, only load it put in my holster, it would be a Glock 17. Any Gen, just a Glock 17.

If I had to pick one gun to “walk the Earth” with, it would be a G17. My bedside pistol is just like yours, minus the CT grips.

[Gray01]

If I had to pick one gun to “walk the Earth” with, it would be a G17. My bedside pistol is just like yours, minus the CT grips.

I have used Glocks since they first hit the U.S. The first was a 1st Gen 17 shortly after Pete Kokalis did a write up for it, I want to say somewhere about 1985. I quickly acquired one of the first batch in-country. The agency I was working for had a panoply of pistols one could use but with the codocil that they had to be what Jeff Cooper called "crunchentickers" (Double action). (For quite a while prior to that time we were able to carry Colt 1911's until a few sad sacks violated several of the fundamental rules, and like all bureaucracies, they "blamed the thing" and punished everyone by prohibiting SAA's.)

Cooper was unenamored with the Glock, calling it something along the lines of the best of the worst. I found that, personally, I could operate a Glock much better than the Sig P220 (Browning BDA), Sig P226, or even the S&W 4506 (I ordered one of those when I heard that the S&W 3rd gen was coming out, and obtained one of the first. It was a "pilot" model, hand-fitted, and still wearing the 645 roll mark even though it was a genuine 4506 build.). I have small hands and trigger reach for double-action has always been problematic for me. Unfortunately for me, at that current moment in time, the "plastic gun" was still in the "well just exactly what is the action on this" phase of commonplace understanding, so I was limited to carrying it off-duty.

I was able to get a letter from the DOJ Office of Technology Assessment declaring that the Glock as "double-action" which became sufficient for imprimatur for the organization; I am thinking about 1988. I still have a G19 from that era running strong. I have used G's in the desert in 3 digit temps, and in Alpine conditions in deep snow and double-digit negatives. They have always served me well.

All of this to say, in concurrence with LSP552, a G17 (or 19) with plenty of OEM magazines will suffice nicely

[call_me_ski]

My Steyr M9 was a beautiful shooting pistol and had very few bobbles in a 2k challenge. I think they are generally good to go. But I no longer own it because I didn’t care for its rarity.

The PPQ is another beautiful shooting, quality gun that I also no longer own any examples of (that includes P99s). The ability to drop the striker is a complete joke and unacceptable for a self defense gun.

PPQ and Steyr would tie for best triggers ever in a striker gun. They both shoot great but the Steyr shoots better.

The OP is likely no longer with us, but of his choices I would pick the VP9. The Canik is a joke.

The correct answer, though is a bunch of disposable, non hand fitting Glocks.

The correct answer is also home carry instead of stashing a bunch of guns, possibly (likely?) unsecured about the house.

Didn’t the VP9 drop the striker if hit with a mallet in the same manner as the PPQ?

Did I miss something? Otherwise why does the PPQ get condemned and the VP9 get a pass.

[Doc_Glock]

Didn’t the VP9 drop the striker if hit with a mallet in the same manner as the PPQ?

Did I miss something? Otherwise why does the PPQ get condemned and the VP9 get a pass.

The PPQ takes a very small amount of force. Members here have dropped the striker on aggressive reloads. We are talking ridiculously easy across many models.

The VP9 was pretty hard to get to release. Some members here could duplicate it some could not. Overall it is a more robust design IMO.

I also don’t own either one any more FWIW, preferring Glocks and hammer fired HKs.

[call_me_ski]

Interesting. I did not know about that. Hopefully they made some changes.

[Doc_Glock]

Interesting. I did not know about that. Hopefully they made some changes.

I have heard (a comment on a podcast) that they did indeed “improve” the PPQ so it no longer does this, at the expense of losing the beautiful trigger.

[Doc_Glock]

I also don’t own either one any more FWIW, preferring Glocks and gamer fires HKs.


That should read “hammer fired HKs” above.

[boatbum101]

Suspected the Canik might be trouble . Plus when you add Century to the mix probably best avoided like EAA . PPQ striker issues I hadn't heard about & one I handled if you moved your arm back & forth quickly you could feel the slide trying to come out of battery . I'm going to carefully examine & try to shoot as many of the suggestions voiced here before I buy . I also agree with same make / model on them just to make life easier . If I download the 357's I'm stuck with 6 rounds & neutered ammo . All are very nice S&W ( 1965 Model 28 , 2 Model 65 3" & a 586 if I sell / trade them I'm sure I'd do OK . My 1911's are all Gov't size & were built from the ground up to shoot 230+P . Both my revolvers & 1911's are all duty guns & have been since day one . That's another option just go ahead & build 4 more guns . I too find a 45acp 1911 one hell of a house gun . It WOULD be so much easier if a Glock would fit my hand , but that aint the case . Glocks are like an AK they work period .

[Nephrology]

Suspected the Canik might be trouble . Plus when you add Century to the mix probably best avoided like EAA . PPQ striker issues I hadn't heard about & one I handled if you moved your arm back & forth quickly you could feel the slide trying to come out of battery . I'm going to carefully examine & try to shoot as many of the suggestions voiced here before I buy . I also agree with same make / model on them just to make life easier . If I download the 357's I'm stuck with 6 rounds & neutered ammo . All are very nice S&W ( 1965 Model 28 , 2 Model 65 3" & a 586 if I sell / trade them I'm sure I'd do OK . My 1911's are all Gov't size & were built from the ground up to shoot 230+P . Both my revolvers & 1911's are all duty guns & have been since day one . That's another option just go ahead & build 4 more guns . I too find a 45acp 1911 one hell of a house gun . It WOULD be so much easier if a Glock would fit my hand , but that aint the case . Glocks are like an AK they work period .

If you have the money to invest in a pair of plastic handguns, it's worth taking a look at the Glock 17/19, S&W M&P9 & M&P9 Compact, HK VP9 & P30, Beretta Px4, + probably a few more that I neglected to menti. Buying two of any of those will be cheaper and more straightforward than building more 1911s. You could also look into the Beretta 92 series if you don't mind the slide safety/decocker position.

Additionally, there is something to be said about owning guns with little emotional attachment to it. Those Smiths, and I'm sure your 1911s, are beautiful guns that carry history nicely. Glocks and similar are about as sentimental to me as a set of tires; it doesn't pain me to turn them into cash if they no longer fit my needs.

[HCM]

Suspected the Canik might be trouble . Plus when you add Century to the mix probably best avoided like EAA . PPQ striker issues I hadn't heard about & one I handled if you moved your arm back & forth quickly you could feel the slide trying to come out of battery . I'm going to carefully examine & try to shoot as many of the suggestions voiced here before I buy . I also agree with same make / model on them just to make life easier . If I download the 357's I'm stuck with 6 rounds & neutered ammo . All are very nice S&W ( 1965 Model 28 , 2 Model 65 3" & a 586 if I sell / trade them I'm sure I'd do OK . My 1911's are all Gov't size & were built from the ground up to shoot 230+P . Both my revolvers & 1911's are all duty guns & have been since day one . That's another option just go ahead & build 4 more guns . I too find a 45acp 1911 one hell of a house gun . It WOULD be so much easier if a Glock would fit my hand , but that aint the case . Glocks are like an AK they work period .

Revolvers have limited capacity but there is nothing “neutered” about +p .38. To quote a mentor of mine, “it works pretty good if you can shoot.” Meaning placing a shot into something actually vital.

That said, in fight, bullets are opportunities and soulless plastic people poppers hold lots of bullets. A house gun is usually employed in a “come as you are” fashion. You are gonna need to solve your problem with what is in the gun. 15 or 20 rounds onboard is better than 6 or 8 when reloading isn’t a realistic option.

Glocks work well, better than most, but nothing works period say the guy who even managed to break an HK.

Modern plastic guns are relatively cheap, especially if you qualify for LE /MIL pricing (includes retirees). I would keep those revolvers, especially if there is someone to pass them down to. They won’t be making anything quite like them again.


Re the PPQ: While I prefer the VP 9 to the PPQ, the PPQ striker issues mentioned here have been addressed in newer guns and Walther will retrofit the older Guns.

[HCM]

If you have the money to invest in a pair of plastic handguns, it's worth taking a look at the Glock 17/19, S&W M&P9 & M&P9 Compact, HK VP9 & P30, Beretta Px4, + probably a few more that I neglected to menti. Buying two of any of those will be cheaper and more straightforward than building more 1911s. You could also look into the Beretta 92 series if you don't mind the slide safety/decocker position.

Additionally, there is something to be said about owning guns with little emotional attachment to it. Those Smiths, and I'm sure your 1911s, are beautiful guns that carry history nicely. Glocks and similar are about as sentimental to me as a set of tires; it doesn't pain me to turn them into cash if they no longer fit my needs.

I agree with Nelhrology here. You said you did not want DA/SA Guns nor Glocks but rather than build more 1911s, I would take a hard look at these modern 45’s:

1) The HK USP, USP Compact, HK45 and HK 45 Compact, they are TDA Guns but have a 1911 style thumb safety and can be run cocked and locked.
2) The M&P 45 and 45C. They can be had (or converted in most cases) with or without a thumb safety. The have been the best (most accruate , most reliable) of the M&Ps. An M&P 45 with a thumb safety, APEX’s Forward Set Sear and an APEX flat trigger will give a 1911 a real run for its money.
3) the SIG p320 45.

[spyderco monkey]

For HD, I think its hard to beat the CZ P09. 19+1, very soft shooting, and you can pick them up regularly for around $450.

I prefer DA/SA for HD, where a gun is likely to be kept on a nightstand / in a drawer / stuffed under a cushion without a holster.

[sharps54]

I agree with Nelhrology here. You said you did not want DA/SA Guns nor Glocks but rather than build more 1911s, I would take a hard look at these modern 45’s:

1) The HK USP, USP Compact, HK45 and HK 45 Compact, they are TDA Guns but have a 1911 style thumb safety and can be run cocked and locked.
2) The M&P 45 and 45C. They can be had (or converted in most cases) with or without a thumb safety. The have been the best (most accruate , most reliable) of the M&Ps. An M&P 45 with a thumb safety, APEX’s Forward Set Sear and an APEX flat trigger will give a 1911 a real run for its money.
3) the SIG p320 45.

Slight thread hijack, I may have even asked this before, but comparing the thumb safety function between the M&P and 320 is one superior? By that I mean by “clicking” positively in place and in operation, for example does one block the sear while the other only blocks the trigger?

[HCM]

Slight thread hijack, I may have even asked this before, but comparing the thumb safety function between the M&P and 320 is one superior? By that I mean by “clicking” positively in place and in operation, for example does one block the sear while the other only blocks the trigger?

Based on the position, shape and positivity I like the SIG M17 thumb safety best.

I couldn’t tell you on blocking the sear.

[Wondering Beard]

Based on the position, shape and positivity I like the SIG M17 thumb safety best.

I couldn’t tell you on blocking the sear.

Based on the same and the one example of the M17 I encountered, I felt exactly the opposite: the position was off for my thumb, the shape dug into my thumb and the movement was mushy, heavy and uncertain.

I guess it varies from pistol to pistol?

No clue about blocking the sear either.

[Bigghoss]

I don't know about the M17. The M&P thumb safety blocks the trigger bar and feels kinda mushy.

[awmp]

Sig M17 Bravo (I have two), great night sights, can use factory 21 round 9mm magazines, points well, feels great in the hand, shoots really well, easily put a light on the rail and I enjoy the thumb safety as I'm a 1911 guy as well so no difference in weapons manipulation, heck whats not to love.

I also have several M&Ps with thumb safeties.

The difference in thumb safeties for me is not that noticeable. All have positive engagement and disengagement. The Smiths safety is longer and thinner while the Sig is shorter and thicker. Neither have given me any problems while carrying or shooting.

I did contact Sig about the position of the safety in relation to the slide stop. With the Sig, the slide stop is small and making use of the slide stop/release during reloads is very difficult. Sig told there is a large slide stop coming out soon for the M17 and should help with this issue. (if that is an issue for you)