“They may not like Trump & McConnell but they love Smith & Wesson.”

[Kanye Wyoming]

The club also servesh as an escape from some less-than-tolerant anti-gun left-wingers. Pattie, Sean, and Keith all said they'd faced more backlash from the average liberal who found out they owned guns than from gun owners who found out they were liberals. In Pattie's case, she said gun owners tended to be far more tolerant of her being gay than liberals are of her being a gun owner.
https://freebeacon.com/culture/my-time-shooting-with-the-liberal-gun-club/

[spinmove_]

Leftists being intolerant while also preaching tolerance because it doesn’t fit their distorted worldviews?! Say it ain’t so!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Rachel Maddow is a gun fan. Shoots ARs and 1911s. Took her girl friend on their first date to the range. She is still a fan of reasonable gun control.

However, we've discussed that being conservative is not a necessary condition of being a fan of the 2nd Amend. Now, some would want it to be but it's not.

Last, tolerance is not a necessary condition of the left or right. They both contain large numbers of intolerant orifices.

[TGS]

Most pro-gun liberals I’ve met are only pro-gun in the sense that they feel it should be a privilege extended for the purposes of hunting, sporting, and in very extreme cases self-defense with limited hardware.

Given they’d (as an aggregate) rather see may-issue permits and CCW restricted to revolvers/10 round semi-autos, and completely miss the entire point of the RKBA to begin with, I’m totally cool with groups like these being marginalized and “left out of the conversation”.

[Casual Friday]

The "pro gun" left leaning people I know and the Maga hat types on the right aren't really pro gun. They're OK with guns on their terms.

[willie]

In the 35 or 40 years, occasionally a well known anti gun celebrity has been caught with a firearm. One was journalist Carl Rowan in Washington D.C. who shot or shot at a kid in his swimming pool. The revolver was given to him by his FBI agent son. I have read that the son is 2a. No charges. And then one of the Kennedy's private body guards got caught(in the Capitol?)with a submachine gun in his briefcase. This act violated rules.

[willie]

In 1973 I read a book with a title referring to open and closed minds. I forget the author and exact title. Essentially, the point was that both liberals and conservatives have closed minds, or said another way, people are not open to new ideas.

[Totem Polar]

I’d go shoot at that club. As to lefties and guns, I know a reasonable number, due to work environments. They all tend to be a cross between Glenn, myself, and Caleb/jetfire, across the relative generations. Good peeps, typically.

I will say that the SWAT cops, homicide dicks, long tab rangers, and DoD contractors that I’ve been around are a lot more tolerant of me being an artsy musician and liberal arts prof than the lib arts profs and artsy musicians are of me having SWAT and GRS friends, as a rule. It’s sort of astounding at times. Most def has colored my worldview over time.

[BWT]

I’m conservative and I hate to say - I’ve been shocked by some conservative former mil and LE’s view on guns that are conservative.

The dividing line is often machine guns - not AR-15’s but honest to goodness MG’s and feeling they should be restricted.

I’ve met liberals that are pro-gun and own AR’s, etc. but still voted for Obama / HRC.

I’m not a one-issue voter, but I’ve been stunned by this in the past.

Personally, in my view many persecuted individuals are liberal (many are not, etc. but I’m stereotyping). I’m stunned they’re not more on board with gun ownership given their past.

Most of the people I’ve met who talk the most about being marginalized are also staunchly anti-gun.

I’m not saying who and who hasn’t being marginalized but if you feel you’ve been exploited by society for however long - don’t you also think you’d need to be able to defend yourself?

It never clicked for me.

[BillSWPA]

On a purely historical and constitutional basis, I can think of nothing more strongly protected by the 2nd amendment than the current issue rifle of the US military, which happens to feature selective fire.

However, in terms of actually achieving original intent in today's society, many of my fellow conservatives need to take a lesson from the liberals. Instead of demanding everything at once, achieve victory one small "reasonable" step at a time. Anyone who doubts the effectiveness of that approach need only look at the tens of thousands of gun control laws in the US, each of which was just one small, reasonable step. Second amendment protection of machine guns is achievable, but only several steps in the future, and only if people are smart enough to avoid being defenders of bump stocks in the process of taking those steps.

If you want people to justifiably dismiss what you have to say, start by accusing them of being closed minded. It may be the truth, but what if it is not?

[Totem Polar]

I’m not saying who and who hasn’t being marginalized but if you feel you’ve been exploited by society for however long - don’t you also think you’d need to be able to defend yourself?

It never clicked for me.

I’m no great trainer by any measure and that goes vertical on the exponential curve around here. That said, I’ve introduced some new shooters to responsible gun ownership over the years, and the majority have been female, and the majority of the females have been out lesbians. Nothing encourages responsibile gun ownership like realizing that there are people out there wanting to prey upon you just because you exist. Hardly a queer-only phenomenon, but it’s one route of entry to self-sufficient defensive thinking, in my limited experience.

[LSP552]

I’d go shoot at that club. As to lefties and guns, I know a reasonable number, due to work environments. They all tend to be a cross between Glenn, myself, and Caleb/jetfire, across the relative generations. Good peeps, typically.

I will say that the SWAT cops, homicide dicks, long tab rangers, and DoD contractors that I’ve been around are a lot more tolerant of me being an artsy musician and liberal arts prof than the lib arts profs and artsy musicians are of me having SWAT and GRS friends, as a rule. It’s sort of astounding at times. Most def has colored my worldview over time.

I’m not sure it’s possible to generalize, but my conservative friends tend to be more tolerant of different beliefs than my liberal friends. I have a couple of friends in higher ed and their close mindedness sometimes astonishes me.

Emotion vs logic trips a lot of people up.

[BWT]

I’m no great trainer by any measure and that goes vertical on the exponential curve around here. That said, I’ve introduced some new shooters to responsible gun ownership over the years, and the majority have been female, and the majority of the females have been out lesbians. Nothing encourages responsibile gun ownership like realizing that there are people out there wanting to prey upon you just because you exist. Hardly a queer-only phenomenon, but it’s one route of entry to self-sufficient defensive thinking, in my limited experience.

Great job, seriously. You should be proud.

I’ve tried to educate/equip anyone who would listen historically.

I can’t so much these days because I’m not a bachelor anymore and justifying paying for anyone who has an interest in learning about shooting doesn’t fly.

But, I’ve tried to.

[Kanye Wyoming]

I’m no great trainer by any measure and that goes vertical on the exponential curve around here. That said, I’ve introduced some new shooters to responsible gun ownership over the years, and the majority have been female, and the majority of the females have been out lesbians. Nothing encourages responsibile gun ownership like realizing that there are people out there wanting to prey upon you just because you exist. Hardly a queer-only phenomenon, but it’s one route of entry to self-sufficient defensive thinking, in my limited experience.
Somewhat along these lines:

My daughter came for a visit last week. Her boyfriend of a few months came up with her as he wanted to meet us (for that he was awarded an initial point for courage given his views and mine, more on that below).

I take prospective suitors to the range. Although he'd never shot a pistol before, he was a quick study, got to be quite good, and genuinely thought it was a hell of a lot of fun. Before we left for the range my daughter told him that I’d undoubtedly want to stay longer than he would, and to text her when he’d had enough and she’d come pick him up. Twice he got texts from my daughter asking if he wanted her to come over and get him, and twice he replied no. We were there for 2 1/2 hours, until it started to get dark.

Also in his favor — he’s kosher at home but not out and likes to eat, is smart, has a good sense of humor, handled me and my interrogations well, grew up in Washington but is okay if his kids are raised as Eagles fans, and overall is a good guy.

His only obvious major character defect is he does digital media for D campaigns (e.g., Obama, Hillary, Cordray, and the like).

And yet, the seed has now been planted for him to become a 2A guy in the fullness of time.

[RJ]

I’m no great trainer by any measure and that goes vertical on the exponential curve around here. That said, I’ve introduced some new shooters to responsible gun ownership over the years, and the majority have been female, and the majority of the females have been out lesbians. Nothing encourages responsibile gun ownership like realizing that there are people out there wanting to prey upon you just because you exist. Hardly a queer-only phenomenon, but it’s one route of entry to self-sufficient defensive thinking, in my limited experience.

That’s awesome.

[RJ]

...if his kids are raised as Eagles fans...



Let’s not go overboard. :cool:

[LockedBreech]

A particularly fascinating example I have of this is my friend on a college campus who was openly bisexual but "closeted" about his gun ownership because his campus and peer groups would crucify him for being pro-gun. He showed me his first gun purchase, a 9mm XD, furtively in the trunk of his car like it was a duffel bag of meth. In a very pro-gun state.

I have a lot of liberal friends who are big gun fans. The pro-gun crowd would do a favor to itself to be inviting to them rather than draw a false line between conservative and liberal when it comes to guns. As someone noted before me, a lot of liberal groups that have been historically persecuted - Jewish people, women, gay people - have a truly vested interest in self-defense, because they have seen the consequences of the alternative.

[Wondering Beard]

is okay if his kids are raised as Eagles fans, and overall is a good guy.


Let’s not go overboard. :cool:

Well, I just learned that Eagles fans have been rampaging all across the country:
"In domestic sports, the Eagles defeat the Patriots to win their first Super Bowl, and huge crowds of joyous Philadelphia fans celebrate by destroying downtown Boston. No, that would actually make sense. In fact the Philadelphia fans spend the night destroying their own city, then head home for a hearty breakfast of Tide Pods."
"In sports, Patrick Reed wins the Masters Tournament, prompting jubilant Eagles fans to celebrate by destroying what little is left of Philadelphia."
"In sports, France defeats Croatia to win the World Cup. Jubilant Eagles fans, with nothing left in Philadelphia to destroy, lay waste to Delaware."
"In sports, Tiger Woods wins the PGA Tour Championship, his first tour win since 2013. The Maryland National Guard is called out to defend Baltimore from the advancing army of jubilant Eagles fans."
"In sports, the nation rejoices as, for the ninth consecutive year, some team other than the New York Yankees wins the World Series. Atlanta is evacuated when troops are unable to halt the relentless advance of jubilant Eagles fans."

And so on from Dave Barry’s Year in Review (https://www.miamiherald.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/dave-barry/article223204095.html)

[Kanye Wyoming]

Only a slight exaggeration, I confess.

33620

https://sports.theonion.com/eagles-fans-finally-sober-enough-to-return-to-work-1823265623?utm_content=Main&utm_campaign=SF&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing

[blues]

I’m not sure it’s possible to generalize, but my conservative friends tend to be more tolerant of different beliefs than my liberal friends. I have a couple of friends in higher ed and their close mindedness sometimes astonishes me.


Emotion vs logic trips a lot of people up.

They're almost, but maybe not quite, as knowledgeable about all things "correct" as actors and other bullshit artists of their ilk.

[STI]

He showed me his first gun purchase, a 9mm XD, furtively in the trunk of his car like it was a duffel bag of meth.

Well, it was an XD after all ... (already made the mistake and sold it, subcompact 45 eeech)

[HCM]

Somewhat along these lines:

My daughter came for a visit last week. Her boyfriend of a few months came up with her as he wanted to meet us (for that he was awarded an initial point for courage given his views and mine, more on that below).

I take prospective suitors to the range. Although he'd never shot a pistol before, he was a quick study, got to be quite good, and genuinely thought it was a hell of a lot of fun. Before we left for the range my daughter told him that I’d undoubtedly want to stay longer than he would, and to text her when he’d had enough and she’d come pick him up. Twice he got texts from my daughter asking if he wanted her to come over and get him, and twice he replied no. We were there for 2 1/2 hours, until it started to get dark.

Also in his favor — he’s kosher at home but not out and likes to eat, is smart, has a good sense of humor, handled me and my interrogations well, grew up in Washington but is okay if his kids are raised as Eagles fans, and overall is a good guy.

His only obvious major character defect is he does digital media for D campaigns (e.g., Obama, Hillary, Cordray, and the like).

And yet, the seed has now been planted for him to become a 2A guy in the fullness of time.

Ronald Regan (among others) started as a Democrat. I'd be less concerned that he was doing digital media for D campaigns that that he was doing digital media for political candiadtes at all since, in the imortal words of Sheriff Hank Pearson "The only thing worse than a politican is a child molestor."

[Totem Polar]

The pro-gun crowd would do a favor to itself to be inviting to them rather than draw a false line between conservative and liberal when it comes to guns. As someone noted before me, a lot of liberal groups that have been historically persecuted - Jewish people, women, gay people - have a truly vested interest in self-defense, because they have seen the consequences of the alternative.

Preach it.

The only thing really wrong with many of my liberal friends who also show self-responsibility, as well as owning guns, is some of the people they vote for.

And it’s not like I can point to a plethora of way better alternatives to disabuse them of their choices. [/shrug]

[Otaku.edc]

Interesting read, thanks for the share. Being cosmopolitan and a gun owner can be tiring if one elects to be social.

[Eric_L]

The positive things above about dealing with whomever- Left, gay, whatever, sharing guns is where it is at. I’d like to see the NRA back off on the liberal bashing in the magazines (American Rifleman) and deal more rationally with the gun issue. Maybe it plays to the base?

An example from NRA recently that backfired- the tweet about doctors staying in their lane. NPR had a decent article about it. I’d like to see the people responsible fired.

[Totem Polar]

The positive things above about dealing with whomever- Left, gay, whatever, sharing guns is where it is at. I’d like to see the NRA back off on the liberal bashing in the magazines (American Rifleman) and deal more rationally with the gun issue. Maybe it plays to the base?

An example from NRA recently that backfired- the tweet about doctors staying in their lane. NPR had a decent article about it. I’d like to see the people responsible fired.

The NRA stepped in it up to the ankle on that one. I heard the interview with the surgeon--who was also a shooting survivor in his teens--on NPR. The guy was pretty compelling. The NRA needs more compelling. JMO.

[HCM]

The NRA stepped in it up to the ankle on that one. I heard the interview with the surgeon--who was also a shooting survivor in his teens--on NPR. The guy was pretty compelling. The NRA needs more compelling. JMO.

This. Dr Susan Gratia - Hupp’s testimony regarding her experience in the Lubys shooting is a big part of how TX got shall issue concealed carry.

[Eric_L]

The NRA stepped in it up to the ankle on that one. I heard the interview with the surgeon--who was also a shooting survivor in his teens--on NPR. The guy was pretty compelling. The NRA needs more compelling. JMO.
I agree, but I’ll add they were up to their nose. The hyperbole in the tweet was sophomoric. At best. There are a lot of conservative physicians. There are a lot of liberal ones. The ones I know tend to like to shoot. I know one surgeon who is disgusted with the American College of Surgeons position on firearms. Painting any group with that broad a brush is ......probably not good.

[Zincwarrior]

The positive things above about dealing with whomever- Left, gay, whatever, sharing guns is where it is at. I’d like to see the NRA back off on the liberal bashing in the magazines (American Rifleman) and deal more rationally with the gun issue. Maybe it plays to the base?

An example from NRA recently that backfired- the tweet about doctors staying in their lane. NPR had a decent article about it. I’d like to see the people responsible fired.

NRA is a lost cause and has helped make gun ownership a left/right issue.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This. Dr Susan Gratia - Hupp’s testimony regarding her experience in the Lubys shooting is a big part of how TX got shall issue concealed carry.

I've talked to her. Great person. She was mocked by Double Barrel Joe Biden, IIRC. That kind of testimony is much more compelling than Fight the Socialist Wave, Democrats are Socialists, some CA congressperson is a Marxist/Communist (indicating that the NRA doesn't even know what the terms mean), Fight the Anti-Trump Resistance, the Antigunners are terrified by Oliver North, etc. All of these come in my monthly magazines and e-mails.

I guess all the GOP antigun folks were Marxists. Too boring to list them again.

I've already said this - the NRA has not been able to come up with a compelling argument for the RKBA position that sells outside of their defined choir. Maybe they don't want to, I'm sad to say.

[Otaku.edc]

I have a lot of liberal friends who are big gun fans. The pro-gun crowd would do a favor to itself to be inviting to them rather than draw a false line between conservative and liberal when it comes to guns. As someone noted before me, a lot of liberal groups that have been historically persecuted - Jewish people, women, gay people - have a truly vested interest in self-defense, because they have seen the consequences of the alternative.

Agreed.

Personally, still looking for an outlet that deals exclusively with 2A as a self defense issue de-linked from Democracts vs Republican and Pseudo culture war narratives.

I honestly think it will not come from the traditional places, ie NRA and Republicans who say they believe that 2A is universal/non-partisan. I think that many of the later can’t help but make it a partisan/culture war issue, it’s the only grammar they know how to use.

It’s kinda 😳 listening to people who claim to be apolitical, be pretty political, without consciously knowing it (being charitable and not going straight for “bad faith.”)

[Otaku.edc]

Deleted (double post)

[Hawker800]

Liberal Gun Club? Yuck.

[BillSWPA]

What the NRA should have done was to start by sharing the doctor’s concerns about gun injuries. Next, point out the importance of evidence based solutions. Point to the video of the anesthesiologist discussing gunshot wounds in front of fellow physicians, who pointed out that if most people used long guns rather than handguns, there would be little for the doctors to do to help the victims. Point out the normal standards of the scientific method and peer review. Contrast this physician-generated evidence with Arthur a Kellerman, The Journal of the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and how all of them have disregarded the evidence as well as these standards. Offer to take some doctors shooting.

Vilify the organizations that are consistently screwing up this issue, not the entire profession.

My most common shooting companion while in law school was an ophthalmologist. Doctors are traditionally among the most likely professions to hold concealed handgun licenses. So many potential allies were alienated by the NRA.

I am a firm believer that we would not have a right to bear arms without the NRA, but they need to seriously improve their game.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[modrecoil]

I know this group well. Many of its members, including Executive Director and training leads, are solid, serious people, uncompromising in their support of RKBA and doing great work with education and outreach to the left-of-center crowd. Like any organization, it has its problems. There's a vocal minority that's afflicted with a preoccupation with social justice and an intolerance for diversity of ideas. Some of these people are now in leadership positions and pollute the message with irrelevant culture war bullshit. Like the NRA. Unlike the NRA, they're a small, all volunteer organization so they take what they can get.

[fixer]

I find this article refreshing.

Bottom line for all of us: the more liberals we can bring to support the 2A the better we will be.

One of the great tragedies of our current political climate is the hyper-politicization of the 1st and 2nd amendments as well as others.