Gen 5 Glock vs Gen 4 + KKM (or Wilson, etc)

[ASH556]

Alright, it's decision time and I'm going all-in with a poll and everything.
For those of you that have a Gen 4 Glock with an aftermarket match barrel and a Gen 5 Glock, how do they compare in accuracy?

I'm done agonizing over my current setups and I've also ruled out pretty much everything except Glocks, so I'm left with choosing to either upgrade my current Gen 4 17's with KKM barrels and Dawson sights or moving to Gen 5's. As best I can tell, I'm shooting my current Gen 4 17's within an inch or so of their mechanical potential, which is around 5" at 25yds for 10 shots. It's not so much that I want a true bullseye gun, or I would go with a 1911 or something. It's that if the gun can only produce 5" groups, and I can only produce 6" groups at 25, then when running drills or tests involving 25yd strings, I'm already at or beyond the scoring zone. That's not cool.

Here's one of my Gen 4 17's I used to have set up with a KKM barrel and adjustable Dawson's. I sold it because it was a threaded barrel to use with my suppressor, but it wouldn't fit any of my holsters, so I decided to just forego the barrel. This go-round I'll just forego the suppressor and get non-threaded barrels:

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/data/MetaMirrorCache/i854.photobucket.com_albums_ab104_ASH556_731EC2D1_ 61CF_4758_ABF4_7D51D6AE1E47.jpg

Here's what I've arrived at in my testing:

https://i.imgur.com/GlpcM2al.jpg

Same ammo 10 shot group @ 25 standing freestyle. I forgot to take a pic before I started pasting, so my thumb and finger are pointing at the extreme spread pasters.

https://i.imgur.com/PfQqDyCl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Y0L8biBl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uwVyrDwl.jpg

[45dotACP]

That KKM really seems to have worked well for you, but I do confess some curiosity as to how well you'd shoot a Gen 5.

FWIW My gen 5 G19 is easily more accurate than the Gen 3 G34 with a Wilson barrel.

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[jwperry]

I might end up being the lone vote for the lower cost solution of barrel replacements. I know I did it in all my Glocks. Getting replacement barrels are easier and less costly (upfront, assuming you're content with the performance) than swapping to the same platform, different generation. And you might not get the performance you want out of the next generation Glock.

[Kyle Reese]

Gen 4 Glock 17 with KKM barrel did not shoot as well as my Gen 5 17 with stock barrel. YMMV.

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[psalms144.1]

A KKM barrel did darned near nothing for the accuracy of my Gen4 G19, which was a far sight short of the accuracy I get from my stock Gen5 G19.

[JohnO]

The only way you will know for certain is with a Ransom Rest. The human factor needs to be removed for an accurate assessment.

[ASH556]

The only way you will know for certain is with a Ransom Rest. The human factor needs to be removed for an accurate assessment.

I agree, but alas, no access to one. Also, if it improves in my hands it would probably have improved in a random rest.

[45dotACP]

If you want the most accuracy outside of a new gen 5, you'll want a gunsmith fit barrel.

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[babypanther]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181221/a796b524773b8cf0a486b484cd62572b.jpg Stock gen 4 G22
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181221/647b27f6e41da415e835d31c4b4651ba.jpg Same gun, KKM barrel.

This was shooting The Test. I won’t be able to shoot them until after this week due to holidays, but i have a Gen 5 G17 and a KKM 40-9 conversion barrel I’ll try to shoot head to head and post those results.


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[HopetonBrown]

This was shooting The Test. I won’t be able to shoot them until after this week due to holidays, but i have a Gen 5 G17 and a KKM 40-9 conversion barrel I’ll try to shoot head to head and post those results.



30 feet isn't far enough to evaluate the accuracy of a pistol.

[HCM]

30 feet isn't far enough to evaluate the accuracy of a pistol.

This ^^^

[thward89]

I voted Gen 5 because I have seen better results at 25. However, I believe your preference in trigger should be a consideration. For me, Gen 5s have more of a rolling break than previous generations (which I have found I actually prefer for distance shooting). The flip side of that coin is that I had to learn to prep the trigger harder when shooting closer shots than previous generations which has forced me to change the way I approach a glock trigger. My first trial with a gen 5 did not go well because of this factor. Now that I have changed the way I look at Gen 5 triggers, I am getting better performance at distance and closer in than with my Gen 4 that I put 30K through.

[RJ]

I voted Gen 5 because I have seen better results at 25. However, I believe your preference in trigger should be a consideration. For me, Gen 5s have more of a rolling break than previous generations (which I have found I actually prefer for distance shooting). The flip side of that coin is that I had to learn to prep the trigger harder when shooting closer shots than previous generations which has forced me to change the way I approach a glock trigger. My first trial with a gen 5 did not go well because of this factor. Now that I have changed the way I look at Gen 5 triggers, I am getting better performance at distance and closer in than with my Gen 4 that I put 30K through.

I have not voted because I don't have any basis for comparison, but I was going to mention the trigger on the Gen 5 "to me" seemed most un-Glock like when I first pressed it.

ASH556 I wasn't sure; have you shot a Gen 5 yet?

[ASH556]

I have not voted because I don't have any basis for comparison, but I was going to mention the trigger on the Gen 5 "to me" seemed most un-Glock like when I first pressed it.

ASH556 I wasn't sure; have you shot a Gen 5 yet?

I put 50 rds through a borrowed 19X on Wednesday. I did really enjoy the different trigger press and felt like the gun tracked flatter. 25yd accuracy was indeterminable due to the sights. I think they were factory 3 dot Tritiums, but the vials were MASSIVE with white outlines and they reflected light so badly with such a glare that there was no way to consistently tell where I was holding on the target. A run of “The Test” yielded a score of 100 though!

[babypanther]

30 feet isn't far enough to evaluate the accuracy of a pistol.

I disagree. Is it as conclusive as 25m, or 50m? No. Is The Test an accuracy test? Not 100%. But to say that there is no accuracy component is illogical.

[secondstoryguy]

Been there done that. My Gen 5s are just as accurate (if not more accurate)as my G4’s with match barrels and are more reliable. The Gen 5 has more consistent extraction/ejection and more tolerant of different ammunition that my Gen 4s equipped with match barrels (a tight chamber has a price).

[HopetonBrown]

I disagree. Is it as conclusive as 25m, or 50m? No. Is The Test an accuracy test? Not 100%. But to say that there is no accuracy component is illogical.You're conflating a shooters ability to be accurate with a firearm with the inherent mechanical accuracy of a firearm. "The Test" measures the former, not the latter.

[okie john]

For those of you that have a Gen 4 Glock with an aftermarket match barrel and a Gen 5 Glock, how do they compare in accuracy?

I didn't vote because I'm not sure that you're asking the right question.

I went the Wilson barrel route on two Gen3 G17's a few years ago. I fitted one, TigerSwan did the other. Both shot about the same with loads they liked and both were a major improvement over the factory barrels with the loads I had tested up to that point. Then I started testing loads in the factory barrels and found that a couple of them shot better in the factory barrels than they did in the Wilson barrels. (One or two of these were lead-bullet handloads which should tip the Glock world off its axis.) Even worse, a couple of 147-grain defense loads from Doc's list tumbled at 25 yards when fired from the Wilson barrels.

I've since tested 4-5 Gen4 G19 and G17 pistols and found them to be much more accurate across the board than stock Gen3 guns. I'd say that they're about as accurate as the HK pistols (one each VP9, VP40, USP 45 FS, and P30LS) that I've tested. They also tend to shoot well with a wider variety of loads than the guns with custom barrels. The one Gen5 G19 that I tested seemed even more accurate than the Gen4 guns, and I'd say it was fully the equal of the most accurate HK, which was the VP9, but I don't have enough data to say that for sure.

So I'd start with ammo--after the shooter, it's the next weakest link--and I'd keep records. Until you have notes on several dozen 25- and 50-yard groups made with each gun and load, you don't really have a basis for comparison. It can be kind of a drag to spend that much time shooting at 25 and 50 yards, but it really helps build your skills. It's nice to have a Ransom rest, but getting good results with one of those is a journey in itself. You can identify trends shooting offhand or from a rest.


Okie John

[Spartan1980]

I voted Gen5. I recently shot a G19.5 and I can honestly say that the Gen5 Glock might just be the 1st Glock that I actually like. My beef with Glocks are twofold. Ergos, and the triggers. Quite frankly the triggers suck donkey nads. There's no amount of polishing, connector swapping, climate manipulation, sun spot activity suppression, etc. that can make them "palatable". The grip angle is atrocious.

The G19.5 updated trigger is very different feeling, better reset, better break, better every damn thing. Still not like a nice 1911 but they will never be. The trigger in that specimen indicates they are totally usable now. The lack of finger grooves help with the grip angle for some odd reason that I can't fathom. The Ameriglo sights are quite nice. A Gen5 may not need a single thing done to it other than a cleaning and lube from what I can tell. A friend has several Gen 4s with tricked out triggers, KKM Barrels, etc. and he's shooting his bone stock G34.5 MOS in GSSF unlimited. Last match he won 2 new Glocks (not drawings) and some cash so that tells me something. The only thing I noted that really does suck is the notch in the front of the magwell, but that's specific to the G19 only as far as I know.

[JodyH]

Just to add a data point.
My Gen4 17 in a RONI will shoot 3" at 25Y with S&B 115gr. FMJ, the RONI off a sandbag rest is probably the easiest way to take as much shooter error out of the equation as possible.
I've been considering a Faxon match barrel to see if that can be improved but haven't got around to it yet.

[KevH]

30 feet isn't far enough to evaluate the accuracy of a pistol.

This....for the most part.

Around 2000, I had a Gen3 Glock 22 that threw fliers at least once a magazine. On the advice of one of our old rangemasters I had the factory barrel re-crowned. Not only did the fliers stopped, but it instantly became the most accurate 40 S&W I've ever shot.

With that gun it made a huge difference at 25 yards.

My main squeeze (a 2007 production Gen3 Glock 17) has a Wilson Combat barrel in it. I can see very little difference inside of 50 yards between the factory barrel and the Wilson. Back up a bit and shot at rest there is an appreciable difference between the two.

Unless there is something significantly wrong with the factory barrel you should see no appreciable difference at 30 feet (which is 10 yards).