Training Etiquette

[bbqbologna]

I'm going to be attending a couple of classes this year, including Todd's AFHF class in Indy (woo hoo!). It got me thinking about other classes I've attended in the past. I thought I'd start this thread to get a discussion going around proper etiquette as it relates to training. There are so many unspoken rules, in addition to the rules explicitly defined by the instructor. I think it would be interesting to hear students and instructors' points-of-view.

One question I have for instructors and students: What is your point of view on students photographing and documenting the class?

In the past, I've refrained from taking photos and videos during classes for numerous reasons, including wanting to respect the instructor's intellectual property (class content), respecting student security and privacy, not wanting to be distracted or distracting to other students, etc …. That stated, I took an emergency field medicine class last fall, and because the subject-matter was so dense, and the instruction was all very new to me, I recorded a majority of the instructor's demonstrations and student practice sessions on my iPhone. Obviously I asked the instructors if it was OK ahead of time, but still, there were other unspoken rules we followed. For one, there was a Secret Service agent in the class, and while no-one told me to refrain from capturing this person on video, I made it a point to keep them out of my viewfinder.

[JV_]

One question I have for instructors and students: What is your point of view on students photographing and documenting the class? You should get permission from every single student in the class, and the instructor (first). And if you intend is to post it in an AAR (online use), that should be made clear.

[TCinVA]

One question I have for instructors and students: What is your point of view on students photographing and documenting the class?


Clear it with the instructors and students. Sometimes in class you'll find people who don't need their picture up on the internet. Honor their requests. Clear taking the photos and putting them on the web. Usually it won't be a problem.



That stated, I took an emergency field medicine class last fall, and because the subject-matter was so dense, and the instruction was all very new to me, I recorded a majority of the instructor's demonstrations and student practice sessions on my iPhone.


Be especially careful there. If you record video make doubly sure you have the instructor's permission to take the video in the first place or to put it on the web. Some instructors may be fine with you taking video of the instruction for your own personal use, but most will probably not be pleased with the idea of it going on the web for general consumption.

Also be aware that generally in a firearms class taking video is a huge distraction from actually doing the work in the class.

[Dropkick]

Don't be "that guy" in the class. He's the guy that is keeps asking questions like: "What if X happens?" He's the guy that is there to get a certificate. He's the guy that forgot some peice of gear and has to borrow it. He's the guy that shows up late, and takes his time. He's the guy that has an answer for everything, "Well, I'd just..." He's the guy that struggles with all the material.

Don't be "that guy."

[VolGrad]

One question I have for instructors and students: What is your point of view on students photographing and documenting the class?
I'm usually the student in class with a camera. Like others have already said I make it a point to clear it with the instructor first, then each student. I generally ask during TD1 morning briefing if anyone mind's me taking pics and if they mind if the pics are shared online. I also offer to share the pics with anyone that wants them. I get their e-mail addy from them (direct) or funnel the pics through the class host as he already has a e-mail distr list created. I've shared the pics as both attachments and with a link to a Photobucket directory. If any one person(s) expressed interest in pics I make sure I take a few good action shots of them. I also end up asking either my training partner or the class host (not instructor) to take some pics of me throughout the course. At one class I attended the intructor's wife came to observe. She offered to photograph the class and got really into it. I think that cost the instructor some $ though as she wanted a new camera afterward.

One of my pics from a recent Ken Hackathorn class I attended made into a recent publication. The subject of the pic was writing an article on Ken Hackathorn. Sadly, I didn't even get cred for the pic. :(

[VolGrad]

Don't be "that guy" in the class. He's the guy that is keeps asking questions like: "What if X happens?" He's the guy that is there to get a certificate. He's the guy that forgot some peice of gear and has to borrow it. He's the guy that shows up late, and takes his time. He's the guy that has an answer for everything, "Well, I'd just..." He's the guy that struggles with all the material.

Don't be "that guy."

Everyone hates that guy. EVERYONE. Even the instructor. ESPECIALLY the instructor.

[JV_]

One of my pics from a recent Ken Hackathorn class I attended made into a recent publication. The subject of the pic was writing an article on Ken Hackathorn. Sadly, I didn't even get cred for the pic. :(If you took it, you own it. If my pic was published without my permission, I'd be making some phone calls.

[VolGrad]

If you took it, you own it. If my pic was published without my permission, I'd be making some phone calls.

Nah. It's all good. I sent the author the pics on a CD and gave him permission to use them. I just figured I'd get my name on it.

[Tamara]

Don't be "that guy" in the class. He's the guy that is keeps asking questions like: "What if X happens?" He's the guy that is there to get a certificate. He's the guy that forgot some peice of gear and has to borrow it. He's the guy that shows up late, and takes his time. He's the guy that has an answer for everything, "Well, I'd just..." He's the guy that struggles with all the material.

Don't be "that guy."
He's cool there. I'm usually the one who rides the short bus to gun school in Indy. :o

[orionz06]

I normally take pics, just clear it ahead of time and make sure to hit all the students to make sure they are cool with it. The guys that won't want their picture taken are generally easy to spot out once the camera comes out.

One thing I try to do, if they let me, is bracket a picture of them between two pics of the sky or ground so I am 100% sure I am not getting them in any pics that hit the internet. Some are cool with blurred faces, others don't want to even be near the camera, respect that.


One thing I also do is make sure to blur any and all license plates and serial numbers.

[Tamara]

Some are cool with blurred faces...

If you just go ahead and blur everybody's face then people will think you were in a class with a bunch of ninja dudes, and you will benefit from the Transitive Property of Coolness. ;)

[orionz06]

I am gonna blur my own face too!


I have had some really young kids who were obviously close to new shooters ask for their faces to be blurred for OPSEC. It was pretty funny. I can understand not wanting pics online though, so perhaps me thinking they were trying to make it seem like they were some ninja tier operator was wrong.

[jetfire]

I've used the following method very successfully when reporting on classes.

Contact the instructor PRIOR to the class and ask if it's okay to take photos/videos. The instructor will usually tell you what is and isn't okay.
Ask the instructor if it's okay on Day 1 of the class to address the class at large.
On Day 1, I'll always address the class at large, tell them who I am, why I'm taking pictures, and where the pictures will likely be published. I will use the specific verbiage "if anyone does not want their picture published online or in print, please let me know."


If you're covering the class for a media outlet (online or print) make sure that the instructor knows that as well; and make sure to send them a copy or a link to the eventual article. That's not a requirement, just a professional courtesy.

[orionz06]

It also doesn't hurt to frame the images such that no one will think things are unsafe or dangerous.

[Byron]

I love to take tons of photos, many of which end up online. I use the following strategy, and it has never caused me any grief:

On TD1, before class has started, I approach the instructor privately and ask him if he is comfortable with me taking pictures. I explain how I'll be taking them, how I will use them, and how I will (or will not) distribute them. If he is open to the idea, I further ask if I can take a few seconds of class time to clear it with the rest of the students.

When the instructor first brings everyone together, after he has made his initial introduction, there's usually an opportune moment to address the group. This often comes in the way of personal introductions: people sharing their name/background with the class. I'll take this opportunity to say, "Hey everyone, I'm Byron. Blabla boring stuff about me... I love to take photos in my spare time, and instructor so-and-so has said that he is comfortable with me doing so as long as you guys are too. If there's anyone who does not want to be photographed, please let me know now, or just tap me on the shoulder before I snap anything. No explanation needed: just tell me. If anyone is curious, you're also welcome to look at my past photos, which are available on my website."

At this point, generally one or two guys will say that they don't want to be photographed. I might ask something like, "Are you comfortable with me blurring your face, or do you not want to be in any photos at all?" I'll make note however it is appropriate, and of course respect their wishes.

Before putting anything online, I make sure that no one is accidentally in the background of a photo. If someone has approved of blurring, I will blur them. If they said that blurring was not adequate, that photo gets cropped or deleted. No matter what, I'll blur license plates and other similarly "official" identification.

Relevant note about human nature: don't phrase the question as "Who is comfortable with me putting your face online?" Make sure you say "Who isn't comfortable?" Either way that you phrase the question, you'll only get a few raised hands. So if you phrased it as "who is comfortable?" you'll only have 2-3 faces to show, and 10-12 to blur (I say this from experience). When you phrase it as "who isn't comfortable?" you'll only have to blur 2-3 faces. This effect is directly observable in many other areas; for example, countries that ask drivers to "opt-out" of organ donation have significantly higher rates of donation than countries that ask drivers to "opt-in." People overwhelmingly go with the default option.

Like I said: I've never run into a problem with the above strategy. I take every precaution I can to respect people's privacy, and I've never had any complaints. On the contrary, when you give people access to the photos you took, they will most often thank you. Whether they just want to see cool pictures of themselves, or they realize they can use the photos as training aids, most people consider it a nice "bonus."

[LHS]

Some good advice above.

One thing I've experienced is having the instructor pull the class together, point at a student, and say very clearly "This guy doesn't appear in any photos."

As for being 'that guy', a Hackathorn class I attended a few years back gave a great example of this. Some guys showed up with all manner of ninja toys. They had a custom panel truck to haul all their equipment, wore head-to-toe brand new Crye gear that looked like it was fresh out of the package, had 6.8mm SBRs and full-autos with muzzle brakes, an HK MP7, and an M249, and couldn't shoot for crap. They stuck to themselves the whole class, and when Ken would wave the class in close to extrapolate on a point, these guys would stay back by the shade, loading mags and talking amongst themselves, mostly focused on their 'team leader' and his spiel. They had little skill, and no desire to absorb the information being presented. I honestly had no clue why they were even there, paying good money to ignore instruction. Watching them do the 50-yard 1-2-3-4-5 drill was sad. They just blazed away and hit little or nothing.

If you don't want to be 'that guy', then be attentive, take notes, be polite, have your gear squared away before you show up, have spare gear in case something goes TU, have your mags pre-loaded, and just have a good attitude. You're there to learn, not to show off what you already know. Meet new people, make some contacts, and discuss what the instructor is teaching during breaks. Have a good time, but don't be a douche.

[JodyH]

If you are at either end of the experience/skill bell curve don't demand extra attention from the instructor.
Let the instructor teach the majority while you learn what you can.

[TGS]

Some things that pop up into my head for fellow shooters:

1) Come to the class ready to shoot. When the instructor asks everyone to step up to their targets, do not say, "Oh, I didn't know I was suppose to fill mags yet."

2) Going hand in hand with that, make sure that you're using your time efficiently to help the training day move along. The training day schedule does not cater to you.

3) I learned this one the hard way: If you don't have electronic hearing pro, realize that some do. Adjust your speaking volume accordingly if you're chatting in down-time while others may be concentrating on an individually recorded/timed drill, like the FAST.

4) Don't give excuses for why something didn't go right. No one cares. You don't have to explain yourself, anyway. Just take the learning point and go with it. Doing otherwise and feeling the need to explain yourself is just annoying to everyone else, and in my experience in formal instructing (not shooting, other jazz), the instructor doesn't really care either.

5) Be prepared to drop the ball while other people are watching you.........and have fun with it. :D

[JeffJ]

Good points all -

All the classes I've done (not many or enough) have been run on hot ranges - most people (especially USPSA, IDPA crowd - me included) aren't used to that - so it's a good idea to find out and adjust your gear accordingly

More magazines = more better - I much prefer to "bulk load" during longer breaks with my uplula than constantly fill mags from my pockets

Sunscreen is good

Water and snacks are good

Spare everything is good

Electronic ear pro is much better than non


ETA - none of that is really etiquette but it all goes towards being prepared, dialed in, and not slowing things down - which I think is pretty important etiquette wise

[JDM]

~snip~ have fun with it. :D

This.

[jetfire]

This is a hold over from being a competition shooter: help tape/reset targets. Most classes will involve taping targets. Don't be that guy that whenever it's time to reset he's always loading mags or peeing or having a smoke or whatever.

[Tamara]

This is a hold over from being a competition shooter: help tape/reset targets. Most classes will involve taping targets. Don't be that guy that whenever it's time to reset he's always loading mags or peeing or having a smoke or whatever.
If you RUN downrange to paste targets, and then RUN back, you may be at the front of the line to shoot the next drill, and not look all full of suck and fail by shooting it after all the better shots have already run through. This is my strategy. :cool:

[Shellback]

When it's time to pick up spent brass at the end of the day it's not the time to hit the head.

[JodyH]

When it's time to pick up spent brass at the end of the day it's not the time to hit the head.
Here's a tip for the instructors and class hosts out there.
I always make arrangements with one of the local retired guys to come out at the end of each training day to police all the brass.
It saves your students from having to pick up several thousand brass casings each day (which allows out of towners to get on the road quicker) and the old guys love to scrounge the brass to keep or sell.
Win win for everybody.

The brass whores are easy to find. Just go to any public range early one morning and look for the old guy in the NRA hat with a squirrel cage and a bucket.

[VolGrad]

4) Don't give excuses for why something didn't go right. No one cares. You don't have to explain yourself, anyway. Just take the learning point and go with it. Doing otherwise and feeling the need to explain yourself is just annoying to everyone else, and in my experience in formal instructing (not shooting, other jazz), the instructor doesn't really care either.

QFT

[F-Trooper05]

Don't show up WITH one of these...

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/masonstorm_photos/P10004191.jpg


Don't show up WITHOUT some of this...

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n634/G27RR/Hoppes_Elite_Gun_Oil.jpg

[JV_]

Don't show up WITH one of these...
Or a Serpa.


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[NickA]

This falls between an etiquette thing and a THAT guy thing, but: if the instructor wants you to use a technique that you normally don't, like an overhand rack or high thumb grip or whatever, give it an honest try and don't insist on doing it "your" way. You paid for his teaching, I think it's disrespectful to just ignore it. You can always ditch it if it doesn't work, and who knows, it may lead to an improvement for you.

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