Odd finding with new American Eagle 124 grain [Archive]

Larry Sellers

12-10-2018, 07:04 PM

Purchased a case of 124 grain American eagle from Target Sports about a month ago. About 10% of every box out of the case looks like this. The rounds cycle without issue,maybe feeling a little weaker than the non-tarnished cases.

Has anyone ever experienced this issue before? I'm going to make a call to federal tomorrow and see what/if they have anything to say.

Thankshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/866c0dc1911a167cb73864656ae0d934.jpg

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hufnagel

12-10-2018, 07:30 PM

Ummm... I would NOT shoot those.
and do us all a favor, post up the lot number(s) for the boxes that are doing that.

Larry Sellers

12-10-2018, 07:38 PM

Both numbers on the boxes are effected. The case is split 50/50 between numbers. About 6-10 rounds per box are like the ones in the original photo. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/ff37bb80b30bf71e1433ff081c8d7988.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/9f779e555838877d60686fe18c98e2dc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/44a0ec760958dca2f91b18ebc09a98c4.jpg

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Sigfan26

12-10-2018, 07:46 PM

Who did you buy it from?

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Larry Sellers

12-10-2018, 07:47 PM

In the original post....

Target Sports.

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El Cid

12-10-2018, 08:11 PM

I’ve seen that with agency ammo stored in a conex in humid areas for long periods. We didn’t see failures but I wouldn’t tolerate that on carry/duty ammo.

Larry Sellers

12-10-2018, 08:13 PM

I’ve seen that with agency ammo stored in a conex in humid areas for long periods. We didn’t see failures but I wouldn’t tolerate that on carry/duty ammo.

I bought this about 3 weeks ago, going to reach out to federal tomorrow see if they have anything to say. Probably get me nowhere, but we shall see.

pangloss

12-10-2018, 08:54 PM

I've shot 1900 rounds of that ammo this year and haven't had any rounds that look like the ones in the picture. Mine was manufactured in February, so a different lot than the problem ammo. Also, I purchased mine from SGAmmo.

fatdog

12-10-2018, 09:07 PM

Seen it many times in winchester white box, your basic case corrosion, likely from moisture, unless the case is compromised they go bang just fine.

You will notice the vague line, the corrosion occurs primarily above the tray line, I used to find some of the rounds that were on the edges of the case or one end of a box were the worst, I associated it with a box or one end of a box that got wet at some point but dried out.

Also the pH of some of the board stock paper they use might be part of the problem, it doesn't matter dry but if wet might accelerate corrosion of the brass.

ArgentFix

12-10-2018, 11:31 PM

Also about a month ago I got a shipment of various 22LR from TSUSA that was entirely unacceptable. It was delayed, damaged, WET, and filled incorrectly. Here's a sample picture:

33155

You can see the warping clearest on the CCI box but the whole lot was quite wet to the touch, and several other boxes just fell apart. Oddly, the cling wrap and outer shipping box were dry with no visible water damage. IvanaD insisted everything left their warehouse dry, but I insisted with strong language that TSUSA accept return of the entire shipment. To their credit, they did, and I was refunded the full amount. I've had dozens of satisfactory shipments from TSUSA in the past but your post confirms they had some water-related problems that they didn't want to admit.

Paul Blackburn

12-11-2018, 01:48 AM

Getting wet sound to me like a carrier issue in transit. Who delivered the ammo?

ArgentFix

12-11-2018, 04:03 AM

Getting wet sound to me like a carrier issue in transit. Who delivered the ammo?

Again, the cling wrap and outer shipping box were dry with no visible water damage.

Larry Sellers

12-11-2018, 07:58 AM

Same here. Boxes were dry with no signs of moisture present. I picked mine up directly from the target sports warehouse.

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Prdator

12-11-2018, 08:47 AM

Ive had some real problems with AE QC lately I wont buy it any more.

hufnagel

12-11-2018, 08:57 AM

I think Target Sports needs your call before Federal does. That sure as heck looks like a vendor problem, not a factory problem.

Larry Sellers

12-11-2018, 09:42 AM

spinmove_

12-11-2018, 12:01 PM

jd950

12-11-2018, 12:57 PM

Has there been any flooding in that area in recent months? Looks like water damage to me.

Larry Sellers

12-11-2018, 01:04 PM

Ammo that cheap with free shipping on cases of it doesn’t surprise me that they’re cutting costs somewhere. Might be time to start buying ammo from Luckygunner.

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I've purchased about 15k rounds of 9mm through them in the last year and a half...this is literally the first issue I've encountered with them. I always go pick up from their warehouse as it's about 5 minutes down the road.

We've had a rainy year, again not sure if they're having issues. I just snagged another case of 115 fiocchi and the stuff looks pristine, have had the same experience with there S+B 115 and 124 as well as aguila.

hufnagel

12-11-2018, 01:35 PM

I'll reserve judgement on TSUSA for the moment, until after you talk to Federal. I hope this isn't the start of some circle-jerk run-around between the two of them. That would really stink.

Also just re-reading your original post; if you're noticing a difference in recoil from them, I'd definitely not shoot them any longer, as that to me indicates powder contamination.

Wayne Dobbs

12-12-2018, 12:31 AM

That ammo got good and wet at some point.

Larry Sellers

12-12-2018, 09:31 AM

Federal offered to replace it. Just need to toss it on the steps for UPS to pick up.

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the Schwartz

12-12-2018, 07:17 PM

Federal offered to replace it. Just need to toss it on the steps for UPS to pick up.

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Good on Federal.

Once ammunition leaves their immediate control, it is hard to blame them for what a vendor or carrier―sending it either from their facility or to our front door―might have done.

I've never had a problem with Federal, but sometimes other factors come into play.

JBP55

12-12-2018, 07:25 PM

Federal offered to replace it. Just need to toss it on the steps for UPS to pick up.

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Great, I have purchased dozens of cases of Federal ammunition and never had any issues like that.
I Recently purchased 5 cases of the newer 147gr. American Eagle and no issues with it.

hufnagel

12-12-2018, 09:54 PM

That ammo got good and wet at some point.

and it marinated too. You don't get that from a short dampening. (sadly, I have recent experience with that.)

TGS

12-13-2018, 05:40 PM

Is Target Sports run by Efraim Diveroli and David Packouz, by any chance?

Larry Sellers

12-13-2018, 07:05 PM

Unless I'm missing an inside joke...I've got no idea.
Is Target Sports run by Efraim Diveroli and David Packouz, by any chance?

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TGS

12-14-2018, 01:13 PM

Unless I'm missing an inside joke...I've got no idea.

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They were the adolescent owners of AEY, a company that fulfilled arms and munitions contracts for the DoD during GWOT.....in particular by breaking international laws, supplying improperly stored repackaged crud ammo, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYaEPdcV1g

Larry Sellers

12-14-2018, 01:35 PM

10-4 makes sense now!
They were the adolescent owners of AEY, a company that fulfilled arms and munitions contracts for the DoD during GWOT.....in particular by breaking international laws, supplying improperly stored repackaged crud ammo, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYaEPdcV1g

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echo5charlie

12-16-2018, 09:58 AM

Is Target Sports run by Efraim Diveroli and David Packouz, by any chance?

I had a C96 from one of those two (David Pakouz I think) come through my shop for transfer several years ago. It came from Rock Island Auctions, IIRC. I didn't know the pedigree at the time. The C96 was from the 20s or 30s, so it was nothing special or rare.

About a year ago the same gentleman hit some hard times and was looking to sell it. Sad to say he WAY overpaid for a gun that was rather poorly described as far as actual condition went and especially for the rather common variant it was.

scjbash

12-17-2018, 10:50 AM

To put it mildly, fuck Target Sports. I tried them once based on feedback from a couple people and it was a massive hassle getting them to either ship my ammo or refund my order. The website showing something as in stock doesn't actually mean it's in stock. That's an actual quote from them. Then on another call someone flat out lied and said she went to the back and checked, and my case was packaged and waiting by the door for the shipper. On a later call they admitted they never even had it.

A little research shows that they used to care and over the last couple years have quit giving a shit. Yelp, Google reviews, and their Facebook page are full of similar problems.

Doc_Glock

12-17-2018, 12:47 PM

OlongJohnson

12-17-2018, 02:08 PM

I’ve done a lot of business with TargetSportsUSA and never had a problem. Several cases of .22LR in the past couple months. They even bought some LE1321B at my suggestion a few years ago.

willie

12-17-2018, 05:39 PM

My last batch of grease gun ammo dated 1962 and in original boxes remains pristine. I've never seen factory ammo like this.

Clobbersaurus

12-17-2018, 11:20 PM

I've purchased about 15k rounds of 9mm through them in the last year and a half...this is literally the first issue I've encountered with them. I always go pick up from their warehouse as it's about 5 minutes down the road.

We've had a rainy year, again not sure if they're having issues. I just snagged another case of 115 fiocchi and the stuff looks pristine, have had the same experience with there S+B 115 and 124 as well as aguila.

I’ve got similar round counts to you on AE 124g over the same period of time. I always purchase by the case and have never seen anything like this. Good on them for replacing it.

12-18-2018, 06:33 AM

Well, this was the response from Target Sports after chatting with their online chat and sending them requested photos, frankly I am a bit surprised by it.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/af4824f48261d65729adf12afb7e9ea1.jpg

Wow.

I had an order to Target Sports ready to hit ‘send’, and will re-evaluate their customer service ratings and reviews a bit more before confirming.

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deputyG23

12-18-2018, 09:24 AM

I order at least 2x a year from Target Sports and have had no problems and have received shipment in less than a week each time. Just got a case of Fiocchi 115 grain delivered last night.

12-18-2018, 12:16 PM

This was kind of interesting:

27 BBB complaints on Target Sports USA:

https://www.bbb.org/us/ct/southington/profile/ammunition-supplies/target-sports-usa-0111-87066655/complaints

0 BBB complaints on SG Ammo:

https://www.bbb.org/us/ok/stillwater/profile/ammunition/sgammo-llc-0995-90026470/complaints

Aray

12-18-2018, 01:08 PM

I used to use TSUSA as my go-to, no longer. I now use Luckygunner 45%, SGammo 45%, Natchez SS 10%

Sigfan26

12-18-2018, 01:10 PM

12-18-2018, 01:59 PM

How the hell have they had 18 complaints in the last year, but get a BBB A+ rating????

I have no idea.

But I have no idea in general how the BBB works.

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GyroF-16

12-18-2018, 06:51 PM

I want to recommend SGAmmo.com here.

In several years of regular ammo purchases, I had a single instance of some problem ammo (Not SGA's fault) and got a shipping label for them to get it back within minutes, no questions asked.

I’ll second this recommendation for SGAmmo. I’ve always been pleased with their prices, customer service, and quality.

SeriousStudent

12-18-2018, 07:47 PM

Yup, I use SGAmmo and LuckyGunner. One in a very great while, I have ordered Brenneke slugs from Target Sports, but that's about it.

TGS

12-19-2018, 12:28 PM

How the hell have they had 18 complaints in the last year, but get a BBB A+ rating????

I have no idea.

But I have no idea in general how the BBB works.

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When you make a complaint about a company, the company has a chance to respond.

Their score only gets dinged if they fail to respond to your original complaint or if they fail to respond to your appeal to their previous response. They don't actually have to resolve the problem....they just have to wait for you to stop continuing your complaint and then BBB closes the "case".

I learned this when dealing with NewEgg.com, and when they didn't send a computer (and for a month didn't send a computer) that I had paid for.

JAH 3rd

12-19-2018, 12:49 PM

I use SGAmmo too. Fast service, tracking info, and a good selection of ammo.

camsdaddy

12-19-2018, 04:24 PM

I have purchased from them and never had a problem. I found it odd I could buy one case and get free shipping. If I buy a case and a box I had to pay shipping and it seemed a little high. I don't plan to take the chance. Every business has issues. It is how they handle the issues that separates the good from the bad. I try to learn from the experience of others. I dont expect every business to be chick fil a but a little service goes a long way.

OlongJohnson

12-21-2018, 10:19 AM

I’ve done a lot of business with TargetSportsUSA and never had a problem. Several cases of .22LR in the past couple months. They even bought some LE1321B at my suggestion a few years ago.

I like Sam. He's a good guy, and I like buying from him.

But TSUSA has some amazingly good prices on what I'm going to shoot for the first half or more of 2019, plus Vista Outdoors rebates of $2/box on any centerfire ammo except 9mm, which is $1/box. I came out ahead on the one order signing up for the Prime Ammo program. It's an 8 percent discount on everything ammo, and I will now have the option of buying one box of something, or one box each of five different things to try and getting free shipping until 12/21/2019. I just might let a shooting buddy know...

Also, with the rebate, the 135gr .38SPL+P Gold Dots are only a few cents more per round than the least expensive, quality, big-factory FMJ I could find. I was thinking about working up a surrogate practice load with Hornady or Sierra 140gr rounds, but realized it's not worth the time. Y'all should go stock up if you shoot revolvers.

Larry Sellers

12-21-2018, 11:15 AM

So I just picked up a case of fiocchi 115 and it's good to go. Their prices can't be beat coupled with the fact that they are literally a five-minute drive from my door.

I also just snagged a case of S&B 124 grain for 166 out the door.

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GlorifiedMailman

12-28-2018, 09:43 PM

I need to check what lot my AE 9mm is from. I had 2 dud primers last time I went to the range. Seeing as American Eagle is a widely approved LE practice round, I was surprised, and I'm even more surprised to see this. To be fair, though, I've never experienced an issue with AE ammo before those two duds in tens of thousands of rounds.