How to decontaminate my gun?

[nternal]

As a new shooter I was completely unaware that shooting exposes one to significantly toxic levels of lead. I've put 1200 of relatively dirty American Eagle 9mm FMJ flat nose through my gun in my first 3 weeks of shooting and unfortunately, while lead exposure is completely unacceptable to me, I'm also hooked.
I'm thinking that if I attend my local outdoor range during non peak hours I can avoid exposure from other shooters and, by using Win Clean or American Eagle TMJ, I can reduce my own exposure. My first problem is how do I clean my Gen 4 Glock 17 so that I'm not contaminating my living room every time I practice dry firing (one can carry enough lead from the gun range on skin and clothing to put family members at risk) . Can anyone give me some informed advice on how to do this effectively (respectfully I'm not interested in speculation and "opinion" on this. I'd like to know how to do it properly and scientifically).

[RoyGBiv]

You'll be fine.. Lead is a bigger problem for developing brains (children). Adults are at low risk with just some simple precautions.

1. Use a range with good ventilation, with a steady flow of air from behind you. Or shoot outdoors with the wind at your back. This will minimize inhaled lead.
2. Always wash your hands after shooting. My range has a special soap for lead removal on all the sinks.
3. Avoid touching your clothing, hair, etc and then eating or drinking anything. Change your clothes and wash up after shooting, before eating.

I'm sure others will be along with additional suggestions...

Many folks here have shot in excess of 100,000 rounds. I'd bet only a small minority of them are crazy. :D

Lots of cleaning products for your gun.. here's a good video.. there are many like it.
Hoppes #9 has been my go-to since the first round I ever fired. Many other products are also good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ud2M1gGlU

[SecondsCount]

I would start off by wearing nitrile gloves when cleaning. They are cheap and you can buy them in bulk at the hardware store.

[nternal]

I would start off by wearing nitrile gloves when cleaning. They are cheap and you can buy them in bulk at the hardware store.

Actually, I'm not sure that might not react with cleaning solvents. I've been trying to find D-lead, Leadtech or Hygenall wipes but I can't seem to find them in Vancouver.

[TCinVA]

As a new shooter I was completely unaware that shooting exposes one to significantly toxic levels of lead.

As a not new shooter who hasn't yet had a blood test come back with elevated lead levels, I think the fear of lead exposure may be slightly overblown.

If you worked every day at an indoor range and were responsible for cleaning the place up you'd certainly want to take precautions to protect yourself the same way that x-ray techs in the hospital who work around significant levels of radiation for umpteen hours a day several days a week take extra precautions against radiation exposure.

Short of that you are probably not terribly likely to encounter a problem. If you're at a decently ventilated indoor range and you do sensible things like washing your hands properly after the range session then you're not going to poison yourself by shooting or cleaning the firearm.

[SecondsCount]

Actually, I'm not sure that might not react with cleaning solvents. I've been trying to find D-lead, Leadtech or Hygenall wipes but I can't seem to find them in Vancouver.

I have used nitrile gloves with Hoppes #9, MPro7, WD40, Wipe Out, Sweets, and Frog Lube without any issues, not to mention gasoline, oil, and other chemicals found when working on the car or lawnmower.

[nternal]

As a not new shooter who hasn't yet had a blood test come back with elevated lead levels, I think the fear of lead exposure may be slightly overblown.


Hopefully you're right but all the government/scientific research on toxic lead levels at gun ranges that I've encountered suggests this is a significant risk. Apparently, even what you track home from the range is enough to put family members at risk. I didn't know anything about this, and while I wash my hands after shooting, I wasn't showering or worrying about the cloths I was wearing. I suspect that, short term, this isn't a problem but... I do want to begin safe practices that will serve me over the long term. As a late baby boomer I grew up with lead gasoline and probably already have more than my fair share built up in my system.

[nternal]

I have used nitrile gloves with Hoppes #9, MPro7, WD40, Wipe Out, Sweets, and Frog Lube without any issues, not to mention gasoline, oil, and other chemicals found when working on the car or lawnmower.

Thanx, I think the gloves suggestion is very smart and I think I'll try it. I have access to nitrile gloves at work so there's no excuse.

[Lomshek]

Hopefully you're right but all the government/scientific research on toxic lead levels at gun ranges that I've encountered suggests this is a significant risk. Apparently, even what you track home from the range is enough to put family members at risk. I didn't know anything about this, and while I wash my hands after shooting, I wasn't showering or worrying about the cloths I was wearing. I suspect that, short term, this isn't a problem but... I do want to begin safe practices that will serve me over the long term. As a late baby boomer I grew up with lead gasoline and probably already have more than my fair share built up in my system.

One word of caution - I would bet that just about every government/scientific study out there was conducted with the goal of showing how dangerous guns are to scare folks away from shooting.

I seriously question the claim that you can track enough lead home to be injurious. Maybe if you shoot at an indoor range with no ventilation and unswept floors but otherwise very doubtful.

[TGS]

Hopefully you're right but all the government/scientific research on toxic lead levels at gun ranges that I've encountered suggests this is a significant risk. Apparently, even what you track home from the range is enough to put family members at risk.

Can you post a link to these studies? This is the first I heard of this. What TCinVA said is exactly what I've always understood. I stay away from unjacketed lead rounds and wash my hands, and never heard that wasn't enough.


As a late baby boomer I grew up with lead gasoline and probably already have more than my fair share built up in my system.

Drink some apple cider vinegar. Nature's elixir!

[YVK]

Has anybody ever checked their lead levels, out of curiosity?

I don't know how it could be feasible to not touch your clothing if you practice draws, reloads etc. I don't have a special set of "range clothes" and really would no time to put them on even if I had them. Similarly, I don't think my sweaters and pants would hold to weekly or twice weekly washes.

At some point I shot in gloves, nearly exclusively. Even now, I have a pair in my range bag. These days, I try to wash my hands as a first thing I do when get off the lane.

Feels like there is really no credible information in regards to correlation between volume of shooting and lead toxicity. Of course, such correlation would be difficult to make because of number of variables such as ventilation, type of bullets used, washing hands after vs not, and unaccounted sources of lead exposure. However, at least a gross correlate would be useful.

[G60]

Wear gloves when cleaning/reloading, keep some wet napkins in your range bag to wash your hands off after you're done shooting at the range, before eating/drinking/smoking, etc.

While being proactive and concerned about the health of you and your family is a good thing, I believe whatever sources have got you concerned about imminent danger of lead exposure from outdoor ranges and dry firing may be highly sensationalized.

[G60]

Has anybody ever checked their lead levels, out of curiosity?


There are a few threads on brianenos.com and castboolits regarding lead levels, many reloaders/casters get their levels checked regularly, and some folks have come back with elevated levels in their blood.

Here is a short article regarding lead and the shooter: http://dfuse.us/lead.html

[TGS]

From the referenced article:



LOL.

I know. According to that article I should have died by age 10 from lead poisoning.

[YVK]

LOL.

That was my reaction too, and, a bigger question, where did that number come from?

Seemingly, from your example, Tom, one nearly has to shoot full-time and indoors to get to the levels you had.

I see guys use pretty elaborate respirators during local pin shoot matches and I was wondering if it was worth it, to block the inhalation. This seems like an easy enough thing to do, but I don't know if it is even worth it.

[nternal]

Can you post a link to these studies? This is the first I heard of this. What TCinVA said is exactly what I've always understood. I stay away from unjacketed lead rounds and wash my hands, and never heard that wasn't enough.



Drink some apple cider vinegar. Nature's elixir!

Here's one link: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/ranges/
If you want to be seriously upset just google something along the lines of "gun range toxic lead levels" or "gun range toxicity" etc etc. You'll find all sorts of government papers and studies.

[Slavex]

mine was 1.92 umol/L in Oct 2007, last test I have from 2010 is 1.25. I have more at the doctors office. Lead level was high enough to warrant a Health Canada/Poison Control alert. All sorts of consultation resulted in me changing my practices for handling my ammo, guns and reloading equipment. level has been dropping steadily since, I believe I am now below 1 umol/L, but will have to confirm with Dr.

[nternal]

I know. According to that article I should have died by age 10 from lead poisoning.

It's easy to dismiss this just like it was easy to dismiss the negative effects of loud rock concerts in the 60s and 70s because the damage doesn't manifest itself for decades. Further more you are not likely to die from lead poisoning. The gist of how it works (skimming over articles) is that lead is substituted for calcium in your bones. No big deal at first but as you age it gets released from the bone and interacts with the nervous system. Just what one needs... at an age when dementia and alzheimer's becomes an issue your nervous system is being degraded by lead. No thanks.

[nternal]

BTW Here's a really good uTube video that pretty much sums up what I've come across at various internet sites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKs8vir4_6k

[nternal]

mine was 1.92 umol/L in Oct 2007, last test I have from 2010 is 1.25. I have more at the doctors office. Lead level was high enough to warrant a Health Canada/Poison Control alert. All sorts of consultation resulted in me changing my practices for handling my ammo, guns and reloading equipment. level has been dropping steadily since, I believe I am now below 1 umol/L, but will have to confirm with Dr.

Did you do any "chelation" therapy or make any dietary changes?
Also... and tips on how to get D-lead products locally?

[Slavex]

No dietary change or chelation, just washing hands lots, changing clothes, always shower when I get home. Wear a hat most of the time when shooting.
As for Dlead products, I guess no one locally has it anymore. TSE in Calgary carries it as does CRAFM in Montreal.

[Nephrology]

This is interesting, I was not aware there was such a significant risk.

I did in fact just buy a pack of nitrile gloves for cleaning. but is lead risk significant at all when using FMJ bullets? I do not shoot lead (Glocks, and I don't reload) so I have never really worried about it.

[JV_]

but is lead risk significant at all when using FMJ bullets?It's not like using lead bullets, and not like casting your own bullets, but it's still there. The base of the bullet on a FMJ is exposed, and it does partially vaporize during ignition. I reload with TMJ/CMJ bullets for this reason.

Also, you need to be concerned with the toxic chemicals in primers, not just the lead in the bullet.

[Nephrology]

It's not like using lead bullets, and not like casting your own bullets, but it's still there. The base of the bullet on a FMJ is exposed, and it does partially vaporize during ignition. I reload with TMJ/CMJ bullets for this reason.

Also, you need to be concerned with the toxic chemicals in primers, not just the lead in the bullet.

From inhalation of aersolized lead, specifically? or just from handling the firearms themselves?

I ask because up until now I have only rarely shot indoors, but my last 3 matches were all held on indoor ranges. I am definitely not a high volume shooter like most people here (probably a case of 9mm every 3 months or so) but I would like to reduce my risk if at all possible.

[JV_]

From inhalation of aersolized lead, specifically?Yes. It's lead directly exposed to the explosion that happens during the firing process. Search around for NoTox ammo, you'll find that the vast majority uses a TMJ bullet. Sometimes they say it uses an FMJ, but then specify it's a fully enclosed FMJ - which is a TMJ/CMJ.

[HCM]

On hand washing after shooting- I was always instructed use COLD water because warm water can open up the pores in the skin and increase lead absorption.

Annual lead level and hearing tests are an OSHA requirement for LE Firearms Instructors here in the US. I don't know my LL numbers off hand but no red flags so far ......Possibly because the only indoor range I have spent significant time on at work was restricted to lead free ammo.

If you are going to the trouble of using lead free ammo / primers, I would suggest trying Gunzilla. http://www.gunzilla.us/index.htm It's a non-toxic, vegetable oil based weapons cleaner / lubricant. We've had good results with it and it prevented all our used patches and rags from being considered HAZMAT.

MSDS sheet for Gunzilla: http://www.gunzilla.us/MSDSpage.htm

[LSP972]

I have used nitrile gloves with Hoppes #9, MPro7, WD40, Wipe Out, Sweets, and Frog Lube without any issues, not to mention gasoline, oil, and other chemicals found when working on the car or lawnmower.

This^.

Nitrile gloves are made specifically to resist most solvents, etc., for use in laboratories. I use them every day, with a variety of chemicals encountered; including gun oil and solvents.

Gun oil and solvent (except perhaps Sweet's; haven't tried that) doesn't "bother" nitrile gloves.

.

Oops, I see you have tried Sweet's. Guess I should read more closely.

[digiadaamore]

i will point out that a while back when these things were more in the fore front tom gaylord had his lead level checked and found it below average for a man his age. now if you dont know who tom gaylord is he is the worlds foremost airgun journalist. this means he is dealing with plain lead pellets everday, i think he estimated something like 750,000 rounds a year!:eek:

[JMS]

RE: lead abatement and clothing:

When picking up spent brass, DO NOT use your hat to collect and transport the stuff to a collection point. You end up smearing the inside of the hat with brass covered in all the smut you want to avoid, only to cram it back on your sweaty head with all the opened pores; worse if you're bald, be it by nature or razor.

[Shellback]

I'd never thought of changing clothes after shooting, good idea. 99% of my shooting is outdoors but it couldn't hurt with a little guy at home.

[YVK]

There was one patron (retired guy and pretty much a full time shooter) of the range who's level was extremely high, >70 μg/dL, and he's wore a P100 respirator ever since. It's my understanding his level has come down, but he continues to wear it. I bought a nice respirator and had every intention of using it, but I found that when doing an even halfway proper draw and pressout, I would hit the respirator body or cartridge with the pistol. That lasted about 0.01 range sessions before I took it off. I haven't used it since.

That's a good info, thanks for sharing. I should've thought about it myself since I occasionally have hit my chin with overtly stretch thumb during a pressout. I wonder if there are respirators with a smaller profile, or maybe even simple N95 mask will do.

[secondstoryguy]

I'll risk it. I wash my hands before leaving the range and shower/change clothes when I get home. Not because of lead, but generally because I'm dirty and I stink. According to OSHA and a lot of those type of organizations want you to wear a fireproof chemical suit to fill your car with gas. I'll bet I breath more nasty carcinogens sitting in rush hour traffic with my windows down that going to an outdoor range.

[peterb]

A local fish & game club runs a winter .22 bullseye league in their clubhouse basement. Ventilation is poor. One of the regulars told the group that he had been tested and that his blood lead level was significantly elevated by the end of the season.

Nitrile exam gloves are great for keeping unwanted chemistry off your skin.

[gringop]

Here is a source of decent info on lead issues.
http://www.utexas.edu/safety/ehs/msds/lead.html

My procedures for lead mitigation are;
Don't shoot at indoor ranges, never eat while shooting, use baby wipes to clean my mouth, moustache and hands before drinking at the range, shoot FMJ instead of plain lead. Wash hands, mouth and moustache before leaving the range. Change clothes after getting home.

When reloading, sort and tumble all brass outdoors, wash hands after I touch brass bullets or primers and after cleaning or handling guns.

This is not a perfect regimen but, just as I don't suit up with full leathers to ride the bike 5 blocks to 7-11, it's a risk I'm willing to take to have a normal life and shoot twice week. YMMV.

Gringop

[nternal]

I still wish there was away to clean the accumulated lead off my gun so that I didn't have to worry about handling it in my livingroom after switching to clean ammo.

[JeffJ]

Dedicated dry-fire gun or SIRT

[jthhapkido]

Here's one link: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/ranges/
If you want to be seriously upset just google something along the lines of "gun range toxic lead levels" or "gun range toxicity" etc etc. You'll find all sorts of government papers and studies.

Most of which don't say anything nearly to the levels that the hysteria attempts to claim.

For example, that page you quoted gives a number of links to studies. Here are the relevant results:
"Range B had a written maintenance protocol that specified daily, weekly, 6-month, and annual maintenance tasks; range surfaces were cleaned with wet mops and vacuums equipped with high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filters."

"BLLs of all eight shooting team members tested at range B were <5.0 µg/dL."

"EPHP made no recommendations for range B because BLLs among shooters were not elevated and the range had an adequate ventilation system and maintenance practices."

....from http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5423a1.htm

In other words, the ranges (out of the ones surveyed) that had adequate ventilation and maintenance was perfectly fine for shooters to use in large amounts.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000142.htm merely talked about using jacketed bullets instead of lead bullets, which is a "duh" sort of thing. Big surprise, in an enclosed area firing lead bullets at velocity, you get lead in the air. If the lead is enclosed in a jacket (even better, in in a TMJ bullet) you get less. Again note these are enclosed indoor ranges.

Interesting enough, the data was pulled from a mere 10 people at a time from 9 different places, which is a really poor data set. And they were firing revolvers, which is interesting to me--until I noticed the data is 30 years old.

And not really telling us anything we didn't already know.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2009-136/pdfs/2009-136.pdfhttp://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2009-136/pdfs/2009-136.pdf tells us a lot of stuff that isn't relevant, but when you finally get to their "case studies" (which just goes to show that bureaucrats should NOT try to do scientific research) we find that:
1) in the first case study, once they got their ventilation system working, lead levels were fine
2) in the second it said that the range that had decent ventilation had no lead level problems,
3) in the third it said that lead levels were high and when they checked the HVAC system, it wasn't working properly,
4) in the fourth it showed that firing range technicians and gunsmiths that were permanently at the range weren't exposed to elevated lead levels, the trainers had levels a tiny bit higher than the suggested max level, and that FBI students brought back lead with them to their rooms. Recommendations from this? Big surprise---fix the ventilation and wash their hands. (They did also recommend ammunition substitution, though their reasoning for that was absent), and
5) the fifth study was all about noise.

So---what does that come to? If the ventilation works, then even LOTS of exposure to many people shooting over long periods of time in an enclosed space is------perfectly fine. Particularly with decent basic hygiene habits.

In other words---the problem is overblown, almost completely.

Yes, lead levels are something to be concerned about. And using a range with poor ventilation/cleaning habits on a persistent basis won't be good for you. (Though it'll still take a LONG time for any effects to occur.) So don't go there.

That being said, it really isn't the deal that people make it out to be. (Most of whom don't know anything about research data, and merely hear that "lead is bad" and "lead comes out of bullets" for whom those combine to "shooting will give you lead poisoning!")

nternal said:
"I still wish there was away to clean the accumulated lead off my gun so that I didn't have to worry about handling it in my livingroom after switching to clean ammo."

Quite frankly, there is NO chance you have fired it enough for there to be any sort of issue with it.

Wipe down the outside, clean out the barrel like normal. It's fine.

----------------

Lead habits:
After shooting, wipe your face and hands with some wipes (not the same one for both!), wash hands in cold water (not hot). Change clothes after range time, and wash them separately. Don't shoot in ranges with poor ventilation. If you have the money and choice, don't use lead-only bullets. Use jacketed, preferably CMJ.

....and in the end, this really isn't a big deal. And if you don't shoot indoors, it REALLY isn't a big deal.

(For the record, "clean ammo" isn't much of a fix in an indoor range when you are getting lead from other people's shooting---in the end, the major fix to this "problem" is having a good ventilation system. With that, none of the rest is really an issue unless you already have serious lung problems, whereupon a respirator is a good idea. Or if you test guns in an indoor range for a living. :) )

[jthhapkido]

Here is a source of decent info on lead issues.
http://www.utexas.edu/safety/ehs/msds/lead.html

One of the main starting points for this article is its justification, which comes from:
"In the August 19, 1989 issue of the weekly magazine, Science News, there appeared an article summarizing a research project on lead poisoning that was first reported in the American Journal of Public Health. This research documented the significant risk of lead poisoning in indoor range users. The study followed 17 members of a law enforcement trainee class through a three month period of firearms training on a state-owned indoor range. During the peak training period, the trainees spent an hour on the shooting range every four days. This isn't much range time compared to the amount put in by most firearms instructors. Nonetheless, in this class, all but two people developed elevated lead levels, and several developed levels considered to be lead poisoning. "

Here is the link for that research article:
ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.79.8.1029

Important conclusions:

The airborne lead levels at the range were incredibly amazingly ridiculously high. (about 40x higher than the OSHA limits.)
The subject's initial lead levels were around 0.31, and raised to about 2.47 by the end of the training---oh wait, that isn't right, because while this is what the abstract says, their actual DATA says the initial level average was .29-.31, and the final average was 1.91-1.93, depending on whether you like mean or median. That "2.47" occurred in the first month of data-taking, and had lowered even after MORE shooting by the next month to 2.14, and then the next month to 1.91.
The range itself corrected issues with its ventilation system after the first month, whereupon the lead levels for the subjects lowered. Specifically, the report says: "Final adjustments to the ventilation system completed on March probably contributed to the large decrease in the amount of airborne lead to which each person was exposed, as evidenced when comparing concentrations from the March 3 sampling with those from March 31 sampling."



I'll just include this conclusion verbatim:
"All of the blood lead levels collected on March 3, after four weeks of training, were above 1.45 pumol/L, considered
elevated for non-occupational exposures; 14 were >1.93 ,umol/L, the value at which the Occupational Safety and
Health Administration (OSHA) requires active medical surveillance in occupational settings; and four were >2.90 jlmol/
L, the level at which OSHA requires medical removal from the source of exposure."

Why would that be? Oh wait:
"The overall mean air lead concentration for all booths before the March 31 sampling was >2,000 ,ug/m3 (Table 4). At this concentration, the OSHA permissible exposure level of 50 ,ug/m3 for an 8-hour time-weighted average14 was exceeded within 12 minutes of shooting. The mean exposure level determined on March 31, after final adjustments to the ventilation system, was 1,231 ,ug/m3. At this level, the permissible exposure level is exceeded in 20 minutes of shooting. The trainees were on the range a mean of 73 minutes per session in Period 1, 39 minutes per session in Period2, and 41 minutes per session in Period 3 (Table 2), all well above the time limit at which the OSHA permissible exposure level was exceeded given the range's air lead concentrations."

So let's see---if the ventilation system isn't working correctly, there is lots of lead in the air when lots of people are shooting in an enclosed space. (Note: all of these students were shooting lead bullets from +P cartridges out of revolvers, which is a great way to make sure lots of lead is being spewed back at you.)

This was back in 1987. Our HVAC systems have changed a bit. Of course, if you go to a range that hasn't been renovated or upgraded since 1987, you probably want to wear a respirator.

Does anyone have any recent data to report that has any relevance to ranges now?

I also note that this has no relevance to outdoor ranges.

Again---I'm not saying you should take basic lead exposure precautions. I AM saying that in any decent indoor range, your issues are minor, if they even exist. And at an outdoor range, just remember to wash your hands before eating.

(None of this has anything to do with lead deposited on your firearm. Which isn't much of an issue at all. Just clean it normally.)

[JodyH]

I grew up in lead piped houses, playing with mercury and going to school in asbestos insulated rooms.
It hasn't affected me *twitch* at all.
:p

[rsa-otc]

Speaking as one who has had extremely high BLL in the 80's, so much so I was part of a national study on the effects of lead, I will share this.

At the time I was instructing on an in house range built in 1966, it's ventilation had been upgraded but it was not to todays standards. The lead problem was just then coming to notice and we were not practicing any of the protocols listed in previous posts. This was also at a time that we were shooting all non jacketed lead ammo. Both my assistant instructor and myself were tested and found to have extremely elevated BLLs.

After we were off the range for an appropriate amount of time to allow our BL levels to drop into the normal range for modern adults we went back to using that range. We went back to instructing on that range and by following these protocols we never again experienced elevated BLLs.

Never drink or eat on a indoor range.
Wash your hands and face prior to eating or drinking no matter what kind of range you are on.
Wash your face and hands with cold water immediately upon leaving the firing line.
Do not collect empty brass in your hat.

That was it. We continued to use the same range, instruct and work in the same clothes all day long, use lead bullets. In fact OSHA came in and tested the different areas around our facility for lead residue, even my desk and chair that I worked at daily immediately after being on the range. They only found traces of lead on the range itself. They didn't even find significant lead residue at our gun cleaning area.

To this day I fire a minimum of 100 rounds per week, during the winter months on an indoor range. Right now I'm using Bayou Bullets Molly Coated lead bullets, reload my own ammo, etc.. I make sure at least once a year I have my BLLs checked and have not had an elevated BLL since that initial test. I do not and have never used a respirator while doing firearms related activities. The only time I have used such protection was when we were cleaning the range or emptying out the back stop.

I will say that I drink ALOT of water during the day. Our bodies get rid of lead thru our urine. And as long as your body emits more than it takes in you should have no problems. Most days my breakfast is cold cereal with whole milk, does this help I'm not sure but I have no bone issues.

Are all of the suggestions listed throughout this thread good, Hell yes. Especially if you are around children (although I will say I never changed my clothes upon coming home from the range and my kids are extremely healthy and both went to College on academic scholarships). But as they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[nternal]

Thanx for sharing your experience RSA-OTC. Personally I tend to obsess about these things and your insight makes me feel a bit better. I was worried I'd have to stop shooting.

[Tamara]

Has anybody ever checked their lead levels, out of curiosity?

Had to, for work. Quarterly. (Worked at an indoor range.)

In all the time I was there, the only employee who had a lead-level test come back bad was a guy who'd grown up shooting Bullseye and was a President's 100 shooter at Camp Perry. He was a law school student who'd been loading cast lead .45 SWC's with his dad since he was old enough to reach the lever on the press.

He pinged his lead level test only a couple weeks after he started working for us. Good thing he got a job at an indoor range or he might have found out the hard way.

I've eaten more pizzas and takeout Chinese on a table in the middle of the gunsmithing shack, surrounded by disassembled guns, ammunition, and cleaning supplies, and with the range's air-handling system roaring away on the other side of a sheet metal wall, than I care to think about. I washed my hands in cold soapy water before I ate or drank anything and never had a high LL in the years I worked there.

[EMC]

Thanks everyone for sharing their experiences. It's easy to get all hypochondriac about this kind of stuff. At the same time, awareness is good, especially with young kids at home.

[rsa-otc]

Had to, for work. Quarterly. (Worked at an indoor range.)

In all the time I was there, the only employee who had a lead-level test come back bad was a guy who'd grown up shooting Bullseye and was a President's 100 shooter at Camp Perry. He was a law school student who'd been loading cast lead .45 SWC's with his dad since he was old enough to reach the lever on the press.

He pinged his lead level test only a couple weeks after he started working for us. Good thing he got a job at an indoor range or he might have found out the hard way.

So Tam I bet he cast his own bullets as well?

[Tamara]

So Tam I bet he cast his own bullets as well?

Oh, at least some, yeah.

[rsa-otc]

Oh, at least some, yeah.

I gave up casting my own bullets after that first elevated test. Not worth the risk.

[ford.304]

Of all the things we can do in this hobby, the only one I've heard that seems to lead to regularly high lead issues is casting. Reading around on a forum for that hobby convinced me right quick that the cash saved was not worth the possible health issues to me.

[dpadams6]

I still wish there was away to clean the accumulated lead off my gun so that I didn't have to worry about handling it in my livingroom after switching to clean ammo.

OMG...You sound slightly paranoid.....Maybe?

[pangloss]

So I've found maybe a dozen or so articles (abstracts, actually) on this topic tonight via www.pubmed.gov. The vast majority report studies of exposures at indoor ranges. Some were written as far back as the 1970s, so I'm not sure how relevant they are today if the ventilation standards have changed. One report noted that sweeping the range earned the guy who was driving the broom a slightly bigger bump in lead levels than other people. Unless I'm overlooking something, virtually all the exposure is airborne and comes via lead dust. I really don't think cleaning your pistol poses any sort of risk. (The most interesting thing I noticed was that lead levels inversely correlated with iron/ferritin levels because they share a receptor. I speculate that you might be able suppress lead uptake by taking iron pills. However, iron pills make me feel sick, and the lead has never caused me any problems.)

Below I've pasted the links to some of the abstracts I read. If anyone wants the full text of any of the articles, let me know and I'll try to get a copy.

To the OP, if this is going to keep you up at night, it might be worth buying some "non-toxic" ammo. AmmunitionToGo has PMC eRange ammo which claims to be safe.

Links to some abstracts:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19135414
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/762765
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19395342
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9117191
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8414278
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1865252
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1468789
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3618861
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2029046
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18333495
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1174370
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2751019
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15959452

[nternal]

To the OP, if this is going to keep you up at night, it might be worth buying some "non-toxic" ammo. AmmunitionToGo has PMC eRange ammo which claims to be safe.



I freely admit that I'm probably overly "paranoid" about things like this but I prefer to err on the side of caution when possible. I have indeed switched to AE TMJ which, as I understand, is completely jacketed and uses lead free primers. It's only a few bucks more and, at least for now, is worth the peace of mind for me.

[nternal]

I occurs to me that, while some might call it paranoia, I tend to think it has more to do with experience. After 30 years of uninterrupted weight training and road work and another 10 years of internal martial arts I have found that EVERYTHING takes it's toll. Ignoring good practices just because you can get away with it for a time (like pounding through injuries even when you know better) means you invariably pay for it later in life. Don't get me wrong...while you can do your best, there is no way to absolutely guarantee one's health or safety.

[rsa-otc]

OMG...You sound slightly paranoid.....Maybe?

Really; speaking as someone who has been there done that give the guy a break, it's scary stuff. The jury is still out on me, I'm 53 I have a ways to go before I can say with certainty that my elevated BLLs caused no long term harm.

[Tamara]

OMG...You sound slightly paranoid.....Maybe?

ProTip: Reading through a three-page thread before throwing out a one-line off-the-cuff response to the OP is not only good netiquette, it helps prevent errors in communication!

Remember: Knowing Is Half The Battle! GO JOE!

[UNK]

I work in a facility that for years used raw lead as part of the manufacturing process. I had to have my blood tested regularly and never had elevated levels. And this was when I was working in areas that you could actually see lead contamination lying around on the equipment and building structure. At one point some government agency with initials for a name decided our soil surrounding the facility was contaminated and the soil should be hauled off and replaced with new dirt. The new dirt they hauled in had higher lead levels than the dirt they hauled off.
I am for prudent caution however lead at the range doesn't give me reason for concern.

[DocGKR]

I do not decontaminate my pistols, wear special shoes, take off my clothing, or anything else. I do shoot jacketed bullets and don't lick my pistol or fingers after shooting...

[jc000]

I do not decontaminate my pistols, wear special shoes, take off my clothing, or anything else. I do shoot jacketed bullets and don't lick my pistol or fingers after shooting...

DocGKR, would you take any additional precautions with very small children?

[DocGKR]

Yes, I would DEFINITELY not let them lick my pistol or my fingers until I carefully washed my hands, nor would I let them any where near solvents, cleaning supplies, ammunition, or loaded firearms. Nor would I take them to the range until a reasonable age...

[BigT]

Yes, I would DEFINITELY would not let them lick my pistol or my fingers until I carefully washed my hands.
Thats frikken hilarious :D

[Lon]

Annual lead level and hearing tests are an OSHA requirement for LE Firearms Instructors here in the US.

Got any more info on that? Link maybe? In all my LE instructor classes, I have never heard this before.

[UNK]

I definitely wouldn't let them start too young. The horrors that could ensue

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r550/brianbeard/076.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r550/brianbeard/018.jpg

[Tamara]

CUTE! :cool:

(I am reminded why I usually have an extra couple sets of safety goggles in my range bag, though. :o )

[UNK]

CUTE! :cool:

(I am reminded why I usually have an extra couple sets of safety goggles in my range bag, though. :o )
I'm busted. Now we have Howard Leights and safety glasses

[Tamara]

I'm busted. Now we have Howard Leights and safety glasses

I can't remember who makes 'em, but there was a company that sold kid-sized ones for, like, a couple bucks a pair, and I'd keep a couple pair along with spare plugs in the bag. That way I'm always ready if someone has kids they want to bring along. And the kids act like its Christmas morning when you tell 'em they can keep the glasses. One friend's daughter wore hers all the way through her Happy Meal after the range. (Hands washed thoroughly!)

She was telling everybody at the Mickey D's that she'd just been shooting; the look on their faces was absolutely priceless. :D

[UNK]

I can't remember who makes 'em, but there was a company that sold kid-sized ones for, like, a couple bucks a pair, and I'd keep a couple pair along with spare plugs in the bag.

She was telling everybody at the Mickey D's that she'd just been shooting; the look on their faces was absolutely priceless. :D

My son has poly carbonate rx glasses. for the girl I am going to try trimming a pair of 3M so they either fit just under the edge of the muffs or rest against the muffs. I like the 3m's because they r cheap and the arms are flat. I'll post them in a new thread when i get them done.

Oh yeah I love the expressions too. Firearms and politically incorrect training should begin at an early age. I think mine started at age 5. But I'm in Kentucky so really here thats the norm.

[TGS]

Lots of talk about wearing safety equipment while cleaning.

The only time I ever wore safety equipment while cleaning was when using the gigantic solvent tanks outside an armory while in the Marines. This was some really caustic stuff......if it touched plastic it would bleach it and turn it very brittle. It cleaned amazingly well, you could basically just rinse an assembled M16 BCG for 5 seconds and it was spotless. Anyways, we wore heavy duty gloves, aprons and goggles.

Outside of that specific situation, never have I met anyone in person that mentioned they use safety gear while cleaning. When we clean black powder muzzle loaders, we stick the barrel in a bucket of steaming hot water with soap, grab the barrel using rags so we don't burn ourselves, and then plunge the barrel. We have black sooty hot water running all over our bare hands from this.

By now, I'm getting the feeling that half of you have a disgusted look on your faces while turning away and making a cross out of you fingers pointing towards the screen.

Oh, and I just cooked some eggs on a teflon pan.

[Tamara]

Lots of talk about wearing safety equipment while cleaning.

Other than taking stuff outside to hose it down with brake cleaner, I don't take any special precautions. Well, I do make sure the room has adequate ventilation and I wash my hands afterwards.

Also, I don't go crazy cleaning guns like I used to. ;)

[Al T.]

Brian, the little girl is adorable. :D


I'd keep a couple pair along with spare plugs in the bag.

That is an awesome idea. I don't see kids often at the range, but a spare set or two will be in my gear.

[JeffJ]

Lots of talk about wearing safety equipment while cleaning.

I wear safety glasses, sometimes I wear gloves. I'm kinda a safety glasses fan - I've got them everywhere and the half a second it takes to put them on is cheap insurance for chemicals splashing into my eyes.

[DocGKR]

Anytime you are around small springs with a propensity to launch, potential exploding devices, and hazardous chemicals, safety eye wear is a prudent choice.

[UNK]

Brian, the little girl is adorable. :D So you like girls with tats :D

Thanks I do believe I will keep her. They both just shot their first steel challenge this weekend. We will be aiming for the State Championships. :)

[Tamara]

Anytime you are around small springs with a propensity to launch, potential exploding devices, and hazardous chemicals, safety eye wear is a prudent choice.

You medical types take all the fun out of everything. ;)

First you tell me to stop using my teeth to check for proper crimp ("But the lead is so sweet!") and now this. :o

[Al T.]

So you like girls with tats.

The expression was my favorite. "Grim determination" personified. Israeli sniper chick also seemed appropriate.

:p

[UNK]

The expression was my favorite. "Grim determination" personified. Israeli sniper chick also seemed appropriate.

:p
Yes you are correct. I realized she was a little different when she made her brother who is 4 years older tap out. Kinda reminds me of the little girl in Kick Ass.

[TCinVA]

Everyone who has bought a good custom 1911 has figured out the prudence of safety glasses. Look at where they clean their guns and I guarantee there are little circular marks on the ceiling...evidence of what velocity the spring plug can achieve when you lose your grip on it.

[jc000]

Yes, I would DEFINITELY not let them lick my pistol or my fingers until I carefully washed my hands, nor would I let them any where near solvents, cleaning supplies, ammunition, or loaded firearms. Nor would I take them to the range until a reasonable age...

Well in all seriousness, I had given my one son an old target I had shot at a range, and I'd let him handle some shell casings which I use for dry-fire practice--I didn't even think of lead poisoning and I'm kinda freaking myself out about it.

[DocGKR]

TCinVAw--I learned to disassemble my pistols inside a large clear plastic bag...

[Al T.]

Yup. Dry cleaning bags are for more than wrapping up the neighbors annoying cats.

:eek:

[nternal]

I got my blood test results back and, while not in "dangerous" territory, at 14 ug/dL of lead in my blood I'm about 10 times the national average (in Canada) and more than a little concerned.

[lamarbrog]

It is entirely a non-issue. Don't worry about it.

I work at an indoor range. I spend on average at least three hours per day in the immediate vicinity of firearms being discharging, and am about 25 yards away from high velocity rifle rounds impacting steel. I average closer to eight hours per day in contact with firearms that have been shot, and ammunition that sometimes has lead exposed. While I am required to wash my hands after working a range shift due to company policy/OSHA, I never wash my hands when shooting on my own time. I have had some days where I've spent the entire day cleaning firearms. I do not use gloves. I wash my hands when I am done primarily to get oils off. At a time, I also spent one evening per week dumping forty-five 3 gallon buckets of lead (complete with dust) into a container for being transported to a recycler. For that activity, I wore a Tyvek suit, a respirator, and gloves.

At home, I sleep a few feet from a pistol that was likely discharged only hours prior.

I even bite split shot weights when I go fishing, and have been known to keep spare lead air rifle pellets tucked down between my gum and my cheek.


In spite of all of this, my lead levels are within OSHA requirements for people working in a lead rich environment, which a shooting range is considered. The levels of lead in my blood are typically only a few PPM higher than what is considered normal for the general public.

As a casual shooter who does not spend the majority of their waking hours in a shooting range, there is absolutely nothing to be concerned about. I cannot conceive any possible way you could accumulate enough lead to cause you harm unless you were making a conscious effort to do so.


Also, if for some reason your lead levels were to elevate (one time the air filtration system malfunctioned, and we didn't realize it for a while, until our blood tests came back a good bit higher than normal) the lead cycles through your system after a month or so. It isn't with you forever, nor does it really last a particularly long time. So, not only would you have to make a n effort to get your lead levels up to a dangerous level, in order to keep them there long enough to cause you harm you would have to do it consistently.


Happy shooting. This may not be what you wanted to hear, but it is the truth. The dangers of lead are blown so far out of proportion it is ridiculous.

[nternal]

Happy shooting. This may not be what you wanted to hear, but it is the truth. The dangers of lead are blown so far out of proportion it is ridiculous.

I don't know how you get that I WANT to believe shooting is potentially harmful. That's The LAST thing I want to hear. Based on the comments of many people who have been around the gun world for a while I had pretty much assumed that my blood tests would show that I had made a big deal out of nothing. It took me days before it dawned on me that the levels I got back were in different units than those used in guidelines and another few days before i could bring myself to do the unit conversion. Finding that I was 10 times higher than the national average and 3 times higher than the average 30 years ago (when lead was used in everything) was NOT something I wanted to know. What I had WANTED (and assumed would be the case) was that the blood test results would show that my concerns were COMPLETELY unfounded.

[nternal]

I also don't really want to go the gym 3-5 times a week for decade after decade after decade. Nor do I want to take the time to cook healthy meals every day. I also don't really want to do martial training every day for 10 years but... I do these things because I don't think one should bury one's head in the sand and hope for the best.

[lamarbrog]

I don't know how you get that I WANT to believe shooting is potentially harmful. That's The LAST thing I want to hear. Based on the comments of many people who have been around the gun world for a while I had pretty much assumed that my blood tests would show that I had made a big deal out of nothing. It took me days before it dawned on me that the levels I got back were in different units than those used in guidelines and another few days before i could bring myself to do the unit conversion. Finding that I was 10 times higher than the national average and 3 times higher than the average 30 years ago (when lead was used in everything) was NOT something I wanted to know. What I had WANTED (and assumed would be the case) was that the blood test results would show that my concerns were COMPLETELY unfounded.

Your concerns still are completely unfounded.

Most people are not avid shooters. There is no longer lead in gasoline. Even people who fish don't go often enough for that lead exposure to matter. Unless folks are eating old paint off of their walls, how are they going to be exposed to lead? Using them for a guideline is illogical.

As you said, you are not at a danger level. As long as the levels of lead in your blood are not high enough to cause you harm, what do you care what the general population's levels are?

I assume you've already begun to use lead-free ammunition, correct?

http://www.sbrammunition.com/9_frangible.html

[lamarbrog]

I also don't really want to go the gym 3-5 times a week for decade after decade after decade. Nor do I want to take the time to cook healthy meals every day. I also don't really want to do martial training every day for 10 years but... I do these things because I don't think one should bury one's head in the sand and hope for the best.

Heart disease will definitely kill you. Having lead levels that are too low to be dangerous does not.

[lamarbrog]

The other issue is you have no base line. For all we know, your lead levels could have always been at that amount. There could be some other environmental factor playing a role.

I order to establish a control, you need to completely separate yourself from firearms, ammunition, and shooting ranges until you can give the lead you have acquired time to cycle through your system. Then, you need a blood test to see what your levels were to begin with.

... I would say you're bordering on the ridiculous... but I think that border was crossed a while ago.

[Tamara]

I don't know how you get that I WANT to believe shooting is potentially harmful. That's The LAST thing I want to hear. Based on the comments of many people who have been around the gun world for a while I had pretty much assumed that my blood tests would show that I had made a big deal out of nothing. It took me days before it dawned on me that the levels I got back were in different units than those used in guidelines and another few days before i could bring myself to do the unit conversion. Finding that I was 10 times higher than the national average and 3 times higher than the average 30 years ago (when lead was used in everything) was NOT something I wanted to know. What I had WANTED (and assumed would be the case) was that the blood test results would show that my concerns were COMPLETELY unfounded.

How much do you shoot?

You lead levels are slightly higher than mine were after twenty years of shooting, dabbling in handloading, and almost four years of working at an indoor range where some areas in the back room had a two-decade layer of gray dust on everything. I have guns I rarely clean, let alone decontaminate, and my high-speed precautions at the outdoor range are usually limited to using the handi-wipes in the range bag before I uncap a water bottle.

Either you are shooting a lot, are somehow super lead-absorbent, or there's another source of environmental lead in your life.

[UNK]

The other issue is you have no base line. For all we know, your lead levels could have always been at that amount. There could be some other environmental factor playing a role.

I order to establish a control, you need to completely separate yourself from firearms, ammunition, and shooting ranges until you can give the lead you have acquired time to cycle through your system. Then, you need a blood test to see what your levels were to begin with.

DITTO As I said earlier I work in a facility that until recently used lead as part of the manufacturing process. All new hire were checked for lead levels and those results varied widely. You need a baseline. As I tell my 12 year old...don't panic.

[rsa-otc]

I don't know how you get that I WANT to believe shooting is potentially harmful. That's The LAST thing I want to hear. Based on the comments of many people who have been around the gun world for a while I had pretty much assumed that my blood tests would show that I had made a big deal out of nothing. It took me days before it dawned on me that the levels I got back were in different units than those used in guidelines and another few days before i could bring myself to do the unit conversion. Finding that I was 10 times higher than the national average and 3 times higher than the average 30 years ago (when lead was used in everything) was NOT something I wanted to know. What I had WANTED (and assumed would be the case) was that the blood test results would show that my concerns were COMPLETELY unfounded.

Like the others have said I would starting to take inventory of my entire life style. Could you be getting lead exposure from another source, including your water supply.

With regards to you firearms lifestyle:
Hom much do you shoot?
Where do you shoot?
What do you do immediately after you are done shooting?
How long ago did you start implementing the suggestions listed here? Could you have built up an elevated BLL and you are still in the process of passing the lead from your body? It has been suggested that it is a 30 day cycle, what I remember from my elevated BLL experience they required me to step away for 6 months.

Then there may be some truth to Tamara's suggestion you may be more susceptible to elevated BLL's. This is the least likely possibility but some people are more susceptible to things then others.

[Johnkard]

Lead only accumulates due to chronic exposure. Even in the worst ventilated indoor ranges, it would take MANY hours per week to attain lead to levels THAT significantly elevated. Dietary Iron and Vitamin C slowly leach lead out of your system over time, only range employees working 8 hours per day in poorly ventilated ranges should be exposed to sufficient lead from firearms to exceed the body's capacity for lead reduction.

If you are not a range employee, and you test very high lead levels, FIRST, you should get a third party to help your addled brain analyze the situation, and SECOND, you should look for a direct dietary source of exposure. Unless you spend your time breathing gas directly from the open dust cover of an AK-47 firing cast bullets, shooting once a month or even once a week does not consist a chronic source of lead exposure.

The most common sources of soluble lead exposure are water contamination, paint, enamel, food produced in a country with poor food safety regulation (i.e. China), herbal or folk remedies (eating vitamins or herbs from an odd source as part of your "healthy" diet?), and contaminated soil (growing your own food in a garden located near a major historic roadway?)

That said, I prefer to shoot lead free or Total Metal Jacket ammunition simply because it's better for the environment.

[rsa-otc]

you should get a third party to help your addled brain analyze the situation,

Was that really helpful?



food produced in a country with poor food safety regulation (i.e. China), herbal or folk remedies (eating vitamins or herbs from an odd source as part of your "healthy" diet?), and contaminated soil (growing your own food in a garden located near a major historic roadway?)


This is a very good suggestion
nternal - You have talked about being a gym & martial arts enthusiast. Are you taking any supplements, some that may have come from the orient? Just a thought.

[lamarbrog]

Like the others have said I would starting to take inventory of my entire life style. Could you be getting lead exposure from another source, including your water supply.

It has been suggested that it is a 30 day cycle, what I remember from my elevated BLL experience they required me to step away for 6 months.


First, let me say that so long as the lead levels are within a safe range, that this is still entirely a waste of time. That said, the OP needs to check the water supply of anywhere he regularly drinks water or contains anything containing water. This includes his home, the homes of friends and family he frequents the residence of, any restaurants he frequents, his place of business, the gym, any unmentioned place of worship, etc. Anywhere the OP consumes anything that contains water is suspect. I know that in an are I lived in a few months back (where I spent some time sitting over a cauldron of molten lead casting fishing weights) that we sourced a lot of our lead from the plumber... he got it whenever he worked on an older home, and removed some lead pipe. Many homes still have lead pipe. There is also the possibility that the solder used in any copper pipe could contain lead of it is older, or if the builder was using the improper solder (either to save money or by accident).

As far as the second paragraph, I think this may reference one of my comments. I cannot say that all lead will be removed from your system after 30 days, however, it is sufficient time that you could see substantial decreases. Within thirty days, after our ventilation flaw was discovered, I went from being just over OSHA maximums, to being almost down to levels common to the general population. Could it take 6 months for all of the lead to leave my body? It very well might. I honestly don't know or care so long as I am not exceeding a safe level. I was merely illustrating that the OP being concerned that he has already accumulated too much lead because he was exposed to lead gasoline years ago is completely preposterous.

[cclaxton]

In February 2012, I went for my six month checkup and asked the doctor if the lab tests he orders for me include lead levels. To my suprise, it is not a standard test that doctors order because lead poisoning has nearly been eliminated in the general public. I only started shooting in May 2011 and I wasn't exposed to lead at work or anywhere else. (I live in the burbs, work at an office, etc.). I don't reload. So, I asked the Doctor to add it to the lab order to set a reference. I wasn't really worried but I wanted a reference level.

Starting in August 2011, I got into IDPA, and started shooting matches every weekend and practiced at two local indoor ranges. Some of the matches were shot at indoor ranges. Those matches involve going downrange to shoot and paste the targets, manipulate the moving targets, put bowling pins back on the platform, sweep away brass, etc. Most of these ranges were very old and had poor or marginal ventilation. I could see lead dust on the floors and see spent bullets on the backstop and sometimes on the floor. (BTW, even a TMJ bullet will flatten and expose lead when it hits an object, thus exposing the lead at that time.) During this time I washed my hands after shooting about 75% of the time, sometimes ate and drank in the clubhouse, but never in the range. I used regular soap and water. I cleaned my guns about once a month using Hoppes, and not gloves, and always washed after cleaning guns.

Lab results just came back and my level is 22. Doctor told me that 30 is considered toxic (can damage things), and 10 or less is normal. He ordered me to not shoot indoor for a while, and be really careful with eating and drinking unless I have washed properly. He said that normal soap and water don't remove most of the lead and that the CDC actually developed a technology to remove most of the lead from hands, hair, and equipment. It was licensed for production to a company called Hygenall. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123491637222104303.html He asked me to use Hygenall after shooting and always use it before eating or drinking. It is available from a number of distributors. D-lead has been used a lot in the construction industry for those handling lead-paint extraction and lead remediation. It seems to be preferred for cleaning walls, equipment, siding, etc. But evidently is not as good as Hygenall at removing it from the skin.

My doctor thinks the likely way I am getting lead into my system is through eating and drinking without sufficiently cleaning my hands and face after shooting practice. He does think it could also be due to inhaling lead dust at improperly ventilated or contaminated indoor ranges, so he wants me to eliminate that first, keep my hands and face clean before eating, etc. He didn't say anything about changing clothing, but I may do that as well to help the doctor determine the sources of the lead I am ingesting somehow. I will continue to shoot at the NRA range, which has state-of-the-art ventilation and lead control systems.

I highly recommend that you get YOUR level checked as soon as possible, even if you are shooting non-lead bullets. You could be exposed to lead at the range.

I am going to recommend Hygenall for all the range operators where I shoot, and will bring Hygenall wipes with me wherever I go to shoot. I recommend the use of Hygenall to anyone who is shooting very frequently.

I don't work for Hygenall, have no investment in Hygenall or any person in my family who owns interesst in Hygenall...just to be clear.

I will report back once I see the results of my new practices.
CC

[Tamara]

My doctor thinks the likely way I am getting lead into my system is through eating and drinking without sufficiently cleaning my hands and face after shooting practice. He does think it could also be due to inhaling lead dust at improperly ventilated or contaminated indoor ranges, so he wants me to eliminate that first, keep my hands and face clean before eating, etc.

Yeah, 22's pretty high.

The single biggest thing is probably going downrange, because it gets that stuff all over your shoes and pants cuffs. You get off the range, wash your hands, and then re-contaminate them in the evening when you pull your shoes off before you go in to brush your teef. One thing that helps is sticky pads on the floor at the range exit.

Seriously, my LL was 12 after a few years of working at an indoor range. Never washed with anything but soap and cold water (to keep the pores closed.)

Then again, I eat a diet high in both iron and Vitamin C, and wash my hands or vigorously apply a handi-wipe before I touch stuff that's going to go in my mouth.

[Yute]

I am going to recommend Hygenall for all the range operators where I shoot, and will bring Hygenall wipes with me wherever I go to shoot. I recommend the use of Hygenall to anyone who is shooting very frequently.

CC

I've been using Hygenall wipes as well - Brownells carries them under the name "Fieldwipes" (disclaimer: no financial ties to Hygenall/Brownells). It's just like a regular wet-wipe but has a surfactant which is meant to aid in lead removal. Smells decent too. My regular decon procedure is to wipe down my face/hands with the wipes, and then a quick rinse with water. Then a shower at the earliest possible time.

I've also bought a home lead test to test the surfaces on which I clean my firearms - thus far there has been no readings, so I must be doing something right...

[cclaxton]

Yeah, 22's pretty high.

The single biggest thing is probably going downrange, because it gets that stuff all over your shoes and pants cuffs. You get off the range, wash your hands, and then re-contaminate them in the evening when you pull your shoes off before you go in to brush your teef. One thing that helps is sticky pads on the floor at the range exit.

Seriously, my LL was 12 after a few years of working at an indoor range. Never washed with anything but soap and cold water (to keep the pores closed.)

Then again, I eat a diet high in both iron and Vitamin C, and wash my hands or vigorously apply a handi-wipe before I touch stuff that's going to go in my mouth.

Thanks for the excellent information about recontaminating from clothes and shoes.

On the diet: The Medical Establishment thinks that eating healthy also helps to prevent absorbtion of lead into the bloodstream: high-fiber, balanced with vegetables and fruits are one of the recommendations as well. Your thoughts?

Also, what is your experience/opinion on shooting in poorly ventilated ranges? Is there enough lead particles in the dust/vapors to worry about?

Thanks,
CC

[nternal]

In February 2012, I went for my six month checkup ....

Lab results just came back and my level is 22. Doctor told me that 30 is considered toxic (can damage things), and 10 or less is normal. He ordered me to not shoot indoor for a while, and be really careful with eating and drinking unless I have washed properly.
CC

My experience has been similar. I spent the first 5-6 weeks shooting a lot (on my own and with a tactical training group). I didn't know anything about the precautions one should take and my lead levels turned out to be a little less than half of what is considered toxic (but still 10 times the average level in Canada). I got educated and have begun taking precautions such as using D-lead products and wearing hazmat booty/pants at the range. I hate the idea of stopping shooting but I've decided to scale back to a minimum.

[cclaxton]

I bought a pack of Lead-Check lead detection swabs.

I swabbed the boots I used to shoot outdoors and sometimes indoors. I also swabbed my carry gun which I practice with regularly. The boots had the most contamination and the gun had lighter contamination, but enough to be concerned about. I have attached photos showing the two swabs. The one on the left is from my boots and the one on the right is from my Kimber 1911 carry gun. The darker the red color, the more contamination.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mSbg8aRT6oc/T5RtkIa075E/AAAAAAAAAfc/MXEzrQmvmNY/s160-c/April222012.jpg

I haven't checked my competition Cz75 but I am sure it has worse contamination because I shoot it a lot more at matches and at the range.

I think what is happening is I have lead contamination on my guns, mags, shoes, boots, clothing, hands (after a match or practice), and I am then picking up that contamination when I eat or drink or touch my mouth with my hands.

I bought a large bottle of D-Lead Surface Cleaner at Home Depot and am going through and systematically cleaning my guns, mags, ammo-loaders, etc. to remove lead contamination on everything that I touch. I am not worrying about the internal parts since I will clean them using Nitrile Gloves and solvent. I will then reapply D-Lead to outside of gun when done.

At the range:
1) I am either going to buy a pair of boots for exclusive use at the range and just keep them in a plastic bag when I am done, OR buy contamination booties to put over my boots/shoes and just throw them away when done. The booties may not work out too well for outdoor, so I think I am going with special boots.
2) I am taking Hygenall wipes with me for cleanup after matches and time at the range, and making sure I don't skip the washing anymore.
3) I am taking a lead-paint respirator to the range with me and I will use it when I walk downrange to paste/setup/assist. If I do any sweeping of casings, I will use the respirator and try not to stir up dust.

Overall, I am being more conscious of lead sources and making sure contamination is removed and being more careful before I eat and drink, especially at the range.

Egads, this is gonna be more of a pain than I expected. But, good news is it is not at the toxic level yet, and I don't have to give up shooting!!!
CC

[lamarbrog]

When I think of all the lead I am exposed to daily at work, and the relatively minor precautions we take and still keep within safe levels, and then compare that to how little exposure most folks here are likely getting and the extremes some are going to.... it makes this thread very amusing.

I monitor my levels because I work in a lead rich environment. Once I stop working in an indoor shooting range, I guarantee you I will never get my lead levels checked again. It is a complete waste of time and money for the average shooter.

I'll also take a second to mention that these tests are not entirely accurate. I was tested on one occasion and my levels were supposedly at nearly 70ppm. No one else had abnormal levels, and there was no reason mine should have been higher. A test only days later to confirm that number showed I was actually right in the pack with everyone else where I should have been. The test had falsely shown my lead levels at more than double what they actually were.

[Tamara]

When I think of all the lead I am exposed to daily at work, and the relatively minor precautions we take and still keep within safe levels, and then compare that to how little exposure most folks here are likely getting and the extremes some are going to.... it makes this thread very amusing.

I monitor my levels because I work in a lead rich environment. Once I stop working in an indoor shooting range, I guarantee you I will never get my lead levels checked again. It is a complete waste of time and money for the average shooter.

I understand what you're saying, and I, too, stopped getting tested when I stopped working at an indoor range. Washing the cack off my hands after shooting is enough of a precaution for me (I keep handi-wipes in the range bag for just that purpose,) but...

22 is a high return for someone who does not work in a high-exposure environment. Even at the range at which I worked, I would have cracked down on an employee who got that result back, making sure they didn't exceed the daily time on the range, washed their hands before eating or drinking, didn't take any food or beverages into the back room (being adjacent to the range door and baffle area, it was on the "dirty" side of the air-handling system,) Tyvek'ed up before setting foot across the firing line, et cetera.

Anything below 20 was de facto proof that whatever they were doing on their own without being babysat was within bounds. (I think only two people returned over twenty the whole time I worked there.)

[cclaxton]

When I think of all the lead I am exposed to daily at work, and the relatively minor precautions we take and still keep within safe levels, and then compare that to how little exposure most folks here are likely getting and the extremes some are going to.... it makes this thread very amusing.

I monitor my levels because I work in a lead rich environment. Once I stop working in an indoor shooting range, I guarantee you I will never get my lead levels checked again. It is a complete waste of time and money for the average shooter.

I'll also take a second to mention that these tests are not entirely accurate. I was tested on one occasion and my levels were supposedly at nearly 70ppm. No one else had abnormal levels, and there was no reason mine should have been higher. A test only days later to confirm that number showed I was actually right in the pack with everyone else where I should have been. The test had falsely shown my lead levels at more than double what they actually were.

If you choose to take the risk for yourself and ignore the well-documented health dangers of lead poisoning, then that is your choice. I don't think it's right to tell everyone else that they should not take this seriously. If someone died or got seriously ill because they took your posting advice, you would feel terrible, right?

CC

[TGS]

If you choose to take the risk for yourself and ignore the well-documented health dangers of lead poisoning, then that is your choice. I don't think it's right to tell everyone else that they should not take this seriously. If someone died or got seriously ill because they took your posting advice, you would feel terrible, right?

CC

Just realize that this thread has a healthy dose of hyper-vigilance (read: hypocondriasis) in it.

No one is ignoring the well-documented health risks of lead. Rather, they're just putting it into context. Keep in mind that lamarbrog didn't even respond/quote you personally, so he might not even be speaking to your situation where you're walking somewhere where you shouldn't be in the first place without a respirator and tyvek suit (downrange at a gun range). So, don't feel the need to have to justify yourself to someone's non-specific post. You're an adult and can make your own decisions, and if his non-specific comment bothered you then just imagine what you're going to feel like dressed up in PPE at the range when everyone is staring at you.

Me personal comment about your BLL post: Obviously, going down range at an indoor range should only be done with the proper PPE as referenced by range workers who've posted here. I think booties in your situation are pointless.....the lead dust down there will also be on your clothes, not just your boots, so if you need to wear booties then you need to be wearing a tyvek suit, too. Also keep in mind that your exposure is fairly low, and your BLL's are still non-toxic. Washing your hands and wearing the respirator for going downrange would probably be more than sufficient. Personally, I just wouldn't be attending those matches at that range.

ETA: What ranges are they that you're shooting at? There was only three I'd shot at in NoVA when I lived there.....NRA, Sharpshooters, and The Range in Stafford. I've observed the guys at Sharpshooters, and even for just running that brass-picker-upper-cart thing in front of the line, they wear full PPE covering 100% of their body. I couldn't stand to be in there for more than an hour anyway because of the ventilation (or lack thereof), and there's no way I'd be walking downrange in that place.

[cclaxton]

ETA: What ranges are they that you're shooting at? There was only three I'd shot at in NoVA when I lived there.....NRA, Sharpshooters, and The Range in Stafford. I've observed the guys at Sharpshooters, and even for just running that brass-picker-upper-cart thing in front of the line, they wear full PPE covering 100% of their body. I couldn't stand to be in there for more than an hour anyway because of the ventilation (or lack thereof), and there's no way I'd be walking downrange in that place.

NRA Range for KSTG: Fairily clean, but still see lead dust and spent bullets on the ground.
Blue Ridge Arsenal: Same, although I think the ventilation is not as good as NRA.
Sharpshooters: Never go downrange there, but even shooting from the booth can get overwhelmed with gusmoke and vapors when its busy. Sweeping up brass behind the booths seems to generate some lead dust.
The Range in Stafford: Not the best situation there. Ventilation is not that bad, but the floor is very dirty with lead and debris for IDPA matches....at least it was last year when I shot there.
Norfolk Country Rifle Range: They have a great club there and a good number of master shooters, and great IDPA matches there. They do use bullet catchers, but still see a good amount of lead dust and spent bullets, epecially in the backstop where they often have targets sitting.

For indoor, I like the NRA and Sharpshooters the best. The NRA for friendly people, cleanliness and rotating targets and longer range, and Sharpshooters because its less crowded and the people who work there are serious competitors, and they have rental guns and guns for sale. But I have to say that Norfolk County puts on the best COF for IDPA for indoor. That is why I am willing to shoot their matches, but I want to find a way to limit my exposure to lead.

So, if I can find ways to stay clean and protect myself, I am willing to put up with the hassle.

[DWB]

I read this thread earlier... and then I went to the range, shot ~4 boxes of lead, came home starving and....forgot to wash my hands before I ate baby carrots, fries, and fish sticks...with my fingers. Am I gonna die?

[DanH]

I read this thread earlier... and then I went to the range, shot ~4 boxes of lead, came home starving and....forgot to wash my hands before I ate baby carrots, fries, and fish sticks...with my fingers. Am I gonna die?

eventually, yes

[lamarbrog]

If you choose to take the risk for yourself and ignore the well-documented health dangers of lead poisoning, then that is your choice. I don't think it's right to tell everyone else that they should not take this seriously. If someone died or got seriously ill because they took your posting advice, you would feel terrible, right?

CC

You are taking this WAY too seriously. I am taking it sufficiently seriously... I wash my hands with delead soap when I get done cleaning up in the evening, and I shower when I get home. As someone who works in a lead rich environment, that is all it takes to remain within save levels.

The opportunity for me to feel terrible is never going to arise. A typical hobbyist, even on this site, is not going to be exposed to sufficient quantities of lead provided they are shooting in a decent range that is complying with regulations. We have had folks who are very serious shooters get their lead levels checked, I am only aware of one who was ever even close to "unsafe" territory, and that was most likely related to careless handloading practices.

The guy who comes to collect our brass works for a recycling company and gets plenty of exposure. He maintains safe levels.

If you season your food with lead dust because you enjoy the sweet metallic taste- get your levels checked regularly. If you shoot at a really crappy range- get your levels checked regularly. For folks who shoot outdoors or in a good range, and generally have good sanitary habits (didn't your Mom tell you to wash your hands before you eat anyway?) it is nothing to worry about.

You lose sleep over this, don't you?

[Slavex]

my lead level is directly related to my shooting and reloading. Previously my range didn't have good ventilation, but I suspect my reloading practices may have contributed to it as well. But the idea that 30 days will see a significant drop in levels is not correct in all cases. Lead takes years to get out of the system if you have high levels, and that's only if you stop your exposure completely.

[neilr]

Does anyone know if there is a place to buy Hygenall in Canada? If it has to be brought in from the States are there any problems ordering it and having it shipped?

thanks,

Neil

[Yute]

Does anyone know if there is a place to buy Hygenall in Canada? If it has to be brought in from the States are there any problems ordering it and having it shipped?

thanks,

Neil

There should be no issue shipping it as it is not considered ORMD or HAZMAT, and is Non-toxic.

[fuse]

CC maybe get another test? Seems like a crazy high result for how little time you've been shooting.

[cclaxton]

I encourage anyone who shoots regularly to get their lead level checked regularly and take appropriate precautions when handling guns, ammo, spent casings, and take special care to wash up well and avoid recontaminating your hands and face before eating and drinking.

It would be a cruel irony to spend many hours practicing with a firearm to defend your life, and then only to be made disabled or die from exposure to lead.

CC

[Tamara]

I encourage anyone who shoots regularly to get their lead level checked regularly and take appropriate precautions when handling guns, ammo, spent casings, and take special care to wash up well and avoid recontaminating your hands and face before eating and drinking.

I appreciate your concern.

Having had mandatory classroom time on safe practices, employer-mandated testing, and decades of shooting experience, I will take your statement under advisement. :)


It would be a cruel irony to spend many hours practicing with a firearm to defend your life, and then only to be made disabled or die from exposure to lead. Have you ever met, or are you personally aware of, anyone who has suffered this fate? I mean, I actually find it odd that I never have... :confused:

[rsa-otc]

Have you ever met, or are you personally aware of, anyone who has suffered this fate? I mean, I actually find it odd that I never have... :confused:

ACTUALLY

One of my LEO Firearms instructors courses back in the mid to late 80's talked about an instructor who died of complications due to elevated BLL's. Now this guy had some of the worst range habits I ever heard of. On the lunch break he would collect used brass in his hat while eating his sandwich, sans gloves. Since he worked at an academy he was doing this day in and day out. The way my old demented mind remembers it (:p) he actually died on the range.

This may be just range gossip, but since it was given to us in a formal class I think there's some creditability to it.

[Tamara]

This may be just range gossip, but since it was given to us in a formal class I think there's some creditability to it.

Oh, I've no doubt that it can happen, and has happened, but like you pointed out, you practically have to work at it.

The one guy I've known who had serious health issues that could have been caused by lead buildup was also in his 70s and had never been in the best of health anyway. While it's unknown whether almost a half-century of home bullet casting caused his problems or merely exacerbated them, it's pretty safe to say that it didn't help.

[Yute]

Are people going to drop dead from massive amounts of lead exposure from regular shooting actives like they would from directly ingesting lead ? Probably not - the above case is unusual.

Unfortunately the issue with lead exposure is that many of its effects are still not fully known or documented, and it could be a major risk factor in the development of other diseases. It's effects are insidious because it is an invisible hazard that is difficult to track - bear in mind lead blood level tests only provide a short-term "snapshot" into a person's true lead level.

One recent study of over 13,000 subjects found that increased lead blood levels tracked over the long term were significantly associated with an increased risk of heart attack and stroke (Menke, Andy. "Blood Lead Below 0.48 μmol/L (10 μg/dL) and Mortality Among US Adults."Circulation 114.13 (2006): 1388-394.). Does this mean lead is killing people directly? No, but it could play a major factor in whether or not someone will have a heart attack/stroke.

Other medical conditions may also be affected by exposure to lead - there is some emerging evidence that early lead exposure in infant primates causes Alzheimer's-like conditions down the line, right down to the over-expression of certain genes linked to Alzheimer's (Bihaq, Syed W. "Infant Exposure to Lead (Pb) and Epigenetic Modifications in the Aging Primate Brain: Implications for Alzheimer's Disease." Journal of Alzheimer's Disease 27.4 (2011): 819-33. Print.)

Bottom Line Up Front: Lead is a known neurotoxin. I don't want it to affect myself or my loved ones. Should we all stop shooting because of it? No of course not - but taking steps (which many members here already do) to reduce lead exposure should be akin to wearing eye/ear pro. If it's easy to do, why not do it?

[JodyH]

Even with my fairly high volume of shooting, if I tested high for lead I'd be looking for a non-shooting related contamination source.
Lead exposure just isn't that big of a concern with modern ammunition, modern range ventilation and good hygiene habits.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

[cclaxton]

My associate's father died from damaged kidneys from high levels of lead exposure. He melted his own lead and formed his own bullets and shot every week. His favorite style of shooting was rifle and some pistol. His basement is where he did all his bullet work and reloading and the EPA declared his basement a lead hazard. They brought in an EPA contractor to extract the lead and lead contaminated structures in his basement. They actually had to remove some of the concrete floor because it was so badly contaminated. The official cause of death was kidney failure due to lead poisoning. He was 62. I didn't know him, but once I told my associate about my high lead level, that is when he told me his father's story.
CC

[TGS]

My associate's father died from damaged kidneys from high levels of lead exposure. He melted his own lead and formed his own bullets and shot every week. His favorite style of shooting was rifle and some pistol. His basement is where he did all his bullet work and reloading and the EPA declared his basement a lead hazard. They brought in an EPA contractor to extract the lead and lead contaminated structures in his basement. They actually had to remove some of the concrete floor because it was so badly contaminated. The official cause of death was kidney failure due to lead poisoning. He was 62. I didn't know him, but once I told my associate about my high lead level, that is when he told me his father's story.
CC

Melting lead in your basement and shooting multiple times a week with lead projectiles is in a completely different league of hazard than just shooting multiple times a week, most likely with jacketed projectiles that cut down significantly on lead exposure.

No one here is saying that lead poisoning doesn't exist.

[lamarbrog]

Melting lead in your basement and shooting multiple times a week with lead projectiles is in a completely different league of hazard than just shooting multiple times a week, most likely with jacketed projectiles that cut down significantly on lead exposure.

No one here is saying that lead poisoning doesn't exist.

This is exactly right. You can definitely lead poison yourself and I don't dispute it, but as has been said you almost have to make a conscious effort given how things are in the shooting world today.

While it seems a few folks here can point to some minimal anecdotal evidence where people have actually suffered severe medical issues potentially as a result of extreme lead exposure, these are rare exceptions where the person in question was doing a whole lot more than just shooting a few times per week. (I'll also point out that one case is "heard it in a class", one is "heard it from an associate", and the other is "guy was in bad health anyway"... hardly solid evidence.) Really, it is so different that it's almost like trying to argue that shooting has unhealthy levels of lead because someone who worked in a lead mine died from exposure. Shooting is not equivalent to casting molten lead in a poorly ventilated area- if you pretend it is, you're only deceiving yourself.

Out of all the shooters here, has anyone actually personally known anyone who has been negatively affected by lead exposure from shooting sports where the person was otherwise in good health? I know a lot of shooters, many of whom have been involved in the hobby for decades... I can't say I am aware of a single instance.

[TGS]

Out of all the shooters here, has anyone actually personally known anyone who has been negatively affected by lead exposure from shooting sports where the person was otherwise in good health? I know a lot of shooters, many of whom have been involved in the hobby for decades... I can't say I am aware of a single instance.

Tom mentioned his case earlier, but like you said he was doing more than average. Reloading lead, shooting a lot of wadcutters at a poorly ventilated range for 6 hours a day, 4-5 days a week.

[BaiHu]

I love the smell of lead in the morning! :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPXVGQnJm0w

Sorry, I had to bring some levity into this conversation.

[Tamara]

Out of all the shooters here, has anyone actually personally known anyone who has been negatively affected by lead exposure from shooting sports where the person was otherwise in good health?
No, because we sent our employee for chelation therapy and barred him from giving range orientations and private lessons after he pinged a high enough lead level.

But again, he was college age and was a President's 100 Bullseye shooter who had grown up shooting and reloading and casting, and that probably had a lot more to do with it than the short time he'd worked at an indoor range. Even on this board there are probably only a handful of posters who had the kind of exposure he did. (And his LL dropped and never went back up when he started washing his hands and stopped casting.)

Frankly, given careful attention to washing hands, a couple hours a week on an indoor range and two indoor IDPA matches a month just aren't enough to cause problematic lead levels unless you're, like, licking the floor between stages or something. If there were children at home, I'd probably go a step further and keep a dedicated set of "range shoes" in the trunk, but that's about all it should take to keep from growing a third arm or a second head or whatever.

[cclaxton]

(I'll also point out that one case is "heard it in a class", one is "heard it from an associate", and the other is "guy was in bad health anyway"... hardly solid evidence.)

Just because I heard this from an associate (BTW, a trusted associate I work with every day) does not mean it is not "solid evidence." Why would my associate lie to me about his father's death?

Does this mean that we should not trust anything anyone tells us unless we can personally experience it? I guess that would means we would have to ignore news reports, newspapers, textbooks and biographies because we didn't personally know the people or have direct experience.

If you want to "believe" that lead poisoning is a exaggerated threat, then just come out and say that.
CC

[Tamara]

If you want to "believe" that lead poisoning is a exaggerated threat, then just come out and say that.

Define "exaggerated".

I went through mandatory training and blood LL monitoring and, despite having significantly greater exposure than most hobby shooters (at least the ones who aren't at an indoor range/gunsmithing shop from noon 'til nine, six days a week,) never pinged higher than a 12, just by taking simple, common-sense precautions like washing my hands before touching stuff I was going to put in my mouth. I mean, my desk at work was not ten feet from the range door and a similar distance from the door to the stockroom which was on the "dirty" side of the building.

[cclaxton]

Good News. My lead level is now down to 12.

I talked to a local Match Director for a bunch of IDPA matches. He told me his was over 25 at one point and he thought one of the major factors is related to how well each range is ventilated. He said that the new ventilation at Blue Ridge is actually better than the NRA range. He also said that he uses one set of shoes for indoor matches and keeps them in a bag in his trunk and separate. He brought his number down to normal by limiting his exposure at ranges with poor ventilation and keeping his shoes separate and good washing practices.

Doctor still wants me to get checked every 6 weeks until he feels I have the contamination under control.

Hygenall showed up and it will go with me in my range bag.

CC

[nternal]

I'm using disposable hazmat pants (with attached booties). That way I don't even have to worry about my car. I bought a box and when I run out I'm just going to use booties (the pants are overkill I think).

[Tamara]

I'm using disposable hazmat pants (with attached booties). That way I don't even have to worry about my car.

Re: The floor of your car.

At the risk of sounding overly sarcastic, do you often lick the floor of your car? I ask this because, depending on where you walk, there's probably a lot of stuff down there that's worse for you than traces of lead residue, so you probably should not be licking it.

Seriously: Wash your hands before you touch anything you are going to put in your mouth. (This is a good idea whether you've been shooting or not, BTW.)

[JAD]

Or, shoot exclusively WHO, and eat only with your right hand.

There's a cultural analogy here, somewhere.

[nternal]

Re: The floor of your car.

At the risk of sounding overly sarcastic, do you often lick the floor of your car? I ask this because, depending on where you walk, there's probably a lot of stuff down there that's worse for you than traces of lead residue, so you probably should not be licking it.

Seriously: Wash your hands before you touch anything you are going to put in your mouth. (This is a good idea whether you've been shooting or not, BTW.)

Maybe you might consider that there are factors you haven't fully thought through before assuming that anyone who says something you don't understand is an idiot. Of course I don't lick the floor of my car but I DO put bags of groceries down there. These bags ultimately end up in my kitchen where my food gets prepared. And yes, before you assume I'm an idiot again, I DO wash my counter tops. Unfortunately normal soaps and detergents do not remove lead so there is a potential for accumulation. I don't really care if anyone thinks I'm a compulsive idiot. You can do what you like with your life. I've posted thoughts here to stimulate discussion and to pick up on ideas from other shooters who have educated themselves on this subject.

I also don't care if others don't think lead is an issue. My levels are 10 times the national average after only a few months of shooting and, while well within the arbitrary "safe" levels, I'd like to minimize this health risk rather than ignore it. It may also be that I have inadvertant exposure from somewhere else but shooting has recognized hazards that I have no intention of ignoring.

[Tamara]

I don't really care if anyone thinks I'm a compulsive idiot. You can do what you like with your life. I've posted thoughts here to stimulate discussion and to pick up on ideas from other shooters who have educated themselves on this subject.
1) I did not say you were an idiot. Nor do I believe you think I'm an uninformed Polyanna ignorant of the hazards.
2) I did not educate myself on this topic. I was educated on this topic in a formal setting complete with little certificates and mandatory re-certification, as well as enforcing compliance among the staff at my workplace.

Never keeping grocery bags in the driver's seat floorboards of the car, I had not considered that particular implication.

[Jay Cunningham]

Don't get shitty with one another.

[Jeff22]

Most of the issue with lead ingestion comes from shooting on INDOOR RANGES. The ones outdoors have enough ventilation and natural "cleaning" factors to reduce the lead ingestion levels pretty easily.

Lead ingestion by shooters comes from 4 major sources, not necessarily listed in order of significance:
1. molten airborne lead particles generated during firing, melting off the back of lead bullets, and inhaled
2. particulate lead absorbed when touching/handling lead bullets
3. lead primer byproducts inhaled as a result of shooting
4. molten lead particles inhaled during casting lead bullets

Most of us don't cast our own bullets, so we can ignore #4 above as a source of lead ingestion. However...source #3 above is by FAR the BIGGEST CONTRIBUTOR to lead ingestion by shooters. (It's something like 10 times greater than the next highest source!!)

The reason here is that, most "non-corrosive" primers contain lead styphnate or something similar. When lead primers ignite, the chemical reaction creates a lead salt that is airborne, and worse yet, it hydroscopic, like all salts. It picks up moisture easily.

Guess what's in your throat and lungs? Lots of moisture, waiting for the lead salt to combine with it. Instant absorbtion.

The solution---RIGOROUS cleanliness on the range, and care when shooting indoors:

1. Don't smoke, eat, or drink on the range. You are ingesting just that much more lead in doing so.
2. Don't shoot on an indoor range that does not ventilate by pulling combustion products AWAY from the shooting line. If you MUST shoot on a range with poor ventilation (Lord knows why), use an OSHA approved mask.
3. DON'T SWEEP with a broom on an indoor range. The floor is COVERED in lead salts, and brooming puts them back in the air. Pick the brass up or use a squeegee. DON'T pick up brass and put it in your hat! This will just contaminate your head at a later time.
4. Once you are done shooting on an indoor range, wash your hands immediately. If you can take a shower and change clothes ASAP, all the better.
5. Lastly, DON'T go to bed after shooting indoors until you take a shower and wash your hair. You hair traps lots of lead particles that will transfer to your pillow, and then to your mouth/nose while sleeping.

People I know who have followed the above rules can sucessfully shoot indoors A LOT (like IPSC practice multiple times per week) without having excessive lead levels.

I've been shooting on indoor ranges on a regular basis for 30 years. One of the ranges I used to shoot on was not particularly well ventilated, although they made some improvements in later years. I've had my lead level tested twice -- once it was a 13 and the next time it was an 11. My understanding is that those readings were at the high end of the normal range and no cause for concern.

I do know two people who had elevated BLL and their levels were high enough that there was concern by the doctors. In one case, the guy had a commercial reloading business on the side and cast his own bullets in an area that was inadequately ventilated. He stopped casting bullets and the problem was solved. In the other case, it was a police firearms instructor who taught for three months every year in an indoor range built in the 1950s that had inadequate ventilation. A big factor in his situation was that he'd drink coffee while sitting at the control panel in the range, and also chew tobacco. He quit chewing tobacco at the range and solved that issue.

[cclaxton]

2. Don't shoot on an indoor range that does not ventilate by pulling combustion products AWAY from the shooting line. If you MUST shoot on a range with poor ventilation (Lord knows why), use an OSHA approved mask.


Do you know if any of the masks that are for use with Lead Paint Removal are sufficient to stop Lead particles at the range?
CC

[Packy]

As a new shooter I was completely unaware that shooting exposes one to significantly toxic levels of lead. I've put 1200 of relatively dirty American Eagle 9mm FMJ flat nose through my gun in my first 3 weeks of shooting and unfortunately, while lead exposure is completely unacceptable to me, I'm also hooked.
I'm thinking that if I attend my local outdoor range during non peak hours I can avoid exposure from other shooters and, by using Win Clean or American Eagle TMJ, I can reduce my own exposure. My first problem is how do I clean my Gen 4 Glock 17 so that I'm not contaminating my living room every time I practice dry firing (one can carry enough lead from the gun range on skin and clothing to put family members at risk) . Can anyone give me some informed advice on how to do this effectively (respectfully I'm not interested in speculation and "opinion" on this. I'd like to know how to do it properly and scientifically).


before or after shooting especially lead.. make sure to drink milk.

[peterb]

Do you know if any of the masks that are for use with Lead Paint Removal are sufficient to stop Lead particles at the range?
CC

A P100 filter is recommended for lead dust.

You can get disposable P100 masks. They meet the standard, but my experience with disposables in other uses is that it's hard to get a good seal all the way around the edge.

When I did a lot of wood/epoxy/glass sanding, I used a 3M 7500 half-mask respirator with filters. It was more comfortable than some others I've worn. http://www.amazon.com/3M-Series-Reusable-Facepiece-Model/dp/B000BR6XR6
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSu7zK1fslxtUnx_ePvTSev7qe 17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS%96%96

I have not tried shooting while wearing one.

[peterb]

If that's the case, a disposable would have a lower profile: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/PPESafetySolutions/PPESafety/Personal_Protective_Equipment/Product_Catalog/~/3M-Particulate-Respirator-8293T-P100-20/case?N=4294698008+5011378&Nr=AND%28hrcy_id%3ABB19ZT3K0Dgs_S6MTGVQF71_N2RL3FH WVK_GPD0K8BC31gv%29&rt=d