Do agenices use Shockwave type guns?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I was arguing elsewhere that a Shockwave was not an appropriate weapon for a newbie house gun as my reading is that most pros don't think highly of the platform

An opposing view cited: https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/wilson-witness-protection-870/

So what's the state of usage of such guns by Law Enforcement. My take is that most argue for stocked shotguns nowadays.

[JRB]

I was arguing elsewhere that a Shockwave was not an appropriate weapon for a newbie house gun as my reading is that most pros don't think highly of the platform

An opposing view cited: https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/wilson-witness-protection-870/

So what's the state of usage of such guns by Law Enforcement. My take is that most argue for stocked shotguns nowadays.

Where LE departments will issue an 14in SBS, I'd personally rather have the SBS in breaching/room clearing - but for a defensive role such as Witsec or from-a-vehicle the TAC-14/Shockwave has a hell of a lot of perks in compactness.

I'm friends with one LEO that has set up a personally owned TAC-14 as his Less Lethal (aka bean bag) shotgun with his supervisor's blessing. In addition to being that much more visually different than the traditional 'lethal' shotgun, the compactness has advantages with storage & slinging it on the individual officer. Apparently if his use of it goes well, his PD may authorize it for individual purchase and may even go on to replace all the Less Lethal shotguns with TAC-14's.
It's still in the very early phase of that evaluation, though.


Edit:

Overall, we need to keep in mind that LE and Military organizations are much slower-moving and generally very reluctant to change weapon systems, especially in newly-found niches like the TAC-14/Shockwave. So I expect it'll be several years before we see any widespread use of such 'other firearms' in LE capacity, especially if they're PD-owned and issued.
Hell, look how long it took LE to move away from revolvers, and how long it took the military to be okay with PMags.

[TGS]

I don't think pistol-gripped shotguns like the Shockwave or TAC-14 are newly found niches.

They used to be a thing back before everyone realized they weren't a great idea. I'm not aware of any reputable LE agency/unit using pistol-gripped shotguns for anything except breaching guns.

It's a fad...it will pass, just like the stupid fucking tactical coach-guns and tactical over-unders that people wet their panties over a couple years back. It's the gun industry version of how college kids today are wearing high-waist loose-cut pants and acid washed jeans.

[03RN]

I think their utility is their size. Great for using from a vehicle or stowing in a ruck or pushing through a swamp.

If I was grabbing a shotgun for a fight I'd want something with a few more rounds on board.

I don't think they'll ever be adopted agency wide. Their shoot ability is directly related to the shooters upper body strength.

[Lester Polfus]

I was, for a brief period in the late '90's issued a birds head grip 14" 870 for a special detail.

They are more capable than most people think they are, but much less capable than a 14" 870 with a youth stock, an MP5, a 10" AR15, or probably any one of a half dozen guns that the high speed kids have started using since I hung it up and became a regular guy.

I was very fond of my 14" 870 with a full stock, not just because of the fact that the stock bore a distinct set of teeth marks, but because it was light, handy and fast.

[Hambo]

With patrol rifles being common even stocked shotguns get left behind. I don't think you'll see LE using Shockwaves.

Possibly because older 870s lasted a long time we had a lot of shotguns, as in a lot more shotguns than vehicles. As patrol cars got tighter shotguns were sent out (I believe) and chopped to 14", had some sort of coating (ROBAR?), sights, etc added. SWAT shotguns got chopped/sights in house and no coating. A few got super chopped as breaching guns with the barrels only as long as the mag tube. Other than that we had no use for pistol grip shotguns.

[fly out]

... the stock bore a distinct set of teeth marks...

Umm, canine? Human? Ursine? Indeterminate?

[Lester Polfus]

Umm, canine? Human? Ursine? Indeterminate?

Scrote.

The back story is the gun was the main squeeze of a guy that retired a few months after I joined up. The teeth marks were from a guy, who because he was being snotty with a knife, my retiree could have smoked, but he didn't because said's scrotes baby's momma and ostensible baby were in the back drop. So Randy smote him across the face with the buckstock, breaking his jaw and leaving his teeth all over the floor of the trailer home.

I was one of the few people with a 5 digit DPSST number interested in shotguns, so he bequeathed it to me.

[blake_g]

Scrote.

The back story is the gun was the main squeeze of a guy that retired a few months after I joined up. The teeth marks were from a guy, who because he was being snotty with a knife, my retiree could have smoked, but he didn't because said's scrotes baby's momma and ostensible baby were in the back drop. So Randy smote him across the face with the buckstock, breaking his jaw and leaving his teeth all over the floor of the trailer home.

I was one of the few people with a 5 digit DPSST number interested in shotguns, so he bequeathed it to me.

Not often you get to use both "scrote" and "smote" in the same casual conversation... well played...

[TC215]

We’re issued 14” 870’s, which are great.

The only Shockwave-type weapon I know of at my place was used by my predecessors in the narc unit years ago. One of them woud keep it in the surveillance car while doing buys with informants. I’m not sure of whatever happened to it.

[jlw]

I did use a cut down twice barrel when escorting a prisoner to the bathroom on an extradition.

https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17190909_1680362085324148_7172122227714048223_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent.fatl1-1.fna&oh=31a65f9e0e83a0b99c404f2d51c10168&oe=5CA3AB5A


It was effective at keeping away gawkers and stupid questions at the rest areas.

Such duty is really the only use I'd have for a Shockwave type gun.

[lwt16]

My former agency had 870 pumps with standard four round magazines and 14 inch barrels.......back in 1996. Full stocks and that short barrel made it a very handy patrol shotgun when working around cars and clearing houses.

I would doubt many agencies would see the benefit of a Shockwave/Tac 14 type firearm for regular patrol or detective work. We have enough trouble with long gun quals with full stocks.

For specialized use such as the US Marshals Witness security or prisoner transport though.....or narcotics stakeouts.......then yeah, it might be real handy. Locally, the narc guys already have MP5 hand me downs from SWAT so it would be hard to get those guys to give those up for a five shot scattergun.

I have a Tac 14 and I consider it more of a fun gun than a serious use gun.....but still, a fun gun that if needed could lay down some hate in a heartbeat. If they told me tomorrow that my issue Beneli Nova was getting pulled and I could bring my own shotgun, I'd select my full sized 870 with the Scattergun Tech 2 shot extension tube with stock rather than the tac14.

Regards.

[Totem Polar]

Not often you get to use both "scrote" and "smote" in the same casual conversation... well played...

Could’ve fucked the shovel, but instead he smote that scrote first...

Been a good week, linguistically, at P-F.

But I digress. Back on topic, I’ll just leave this (green shockwave laser) link here:

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/video-podcast-crimson-trace-lasersaddle-for-the-mossberg-shockwave/42637/

[LtDave]

We had wood stocked 14" 870's for the most part at my PD from the mid '90s. They replaced Smith & Wessons with folding stocks which had replaced Ithaca 37s. I really liked the Ithacas which were in service from the '70s until '83 or '84.

When I was the detective sergeant in the late '90s, I checked out a 50's vintage 870 with a Remington folding stock. I changed out the 20" barrel for one of our 14" ones and kept it in the trunk of my detective ride. It was a very handy package. I shot it for an IALEFI shotgun class with Lew Awerbuck. It wasn't bad with low recoil 00.

US Secret Service had 14" 870's with Remington folders as far back as the early '70's. The gun store I worked at stripped and cleaned a bunch of them for the Los Angeles Office. They has "USSS" engraved on the receiver.