Langdon Elite LTT or CZ Shadow 2 for carry and competition

[Kirk]

Had a question I was hoping the board could help answer. I know there are numerous "what should I buy" threads, but figured 1 more wouldn't hurt ;)

Im gearing up for 2019, and am wanting to shoot Limited (USPSA) from concealment part of the year with a carry gun. I also have determined that I much prefer DA/SA for gun games for various reasons, with one reason being dry fire. This brings me to my question - I've narrowed my choices to the Elite LTT or a CZ Shadow 2. I haven't fired or owned either, but obviously the Shadow 2 is incredibly common locally at matches and the LTT is obviously highly recommended here.

So, if you had to choose one for *both* carry and competition (or just performance, same thing), which would you choose? The LTT seems more carry friendly, but the Shadow 2 would probably do better in Limited due to SAO. Both seem to have plenty of aftermarket support. Size of each gun is a factor obviously for carry, but I carry a G17 every day without problem.

If this is a dumb thread, I apologize. Just figured I'd get tips from those who have experience with both guns before I make a decision. Mods, if this would better fit in another thread or is taking up space, feel free to delete :D. Thanks!

[spinmove_]

The Shadow 2 is pretty much a competition only gun as it was literally built for Production division and lacks a firing pin block. Great pistol from what I hear, but not something you’d want to actually carry.

That said, if you’re looking for a pistol to do BOTH, get an Elite LTT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Matt O]

Elite LTT hands down. I don't find the Shadow's safety to be in an ergonomic location and routinely manually lowering the hammer on a hot weapon outside of a range environment is inadvisable. Also no firing pin block. Ben Stoeger took Beretta Elite's to the highest levels of USPSA, so I highly doubt that you will be able to harvest any performance out of the Shadow that you couldn't also achieve with the pizza blaster. If you are particularly interested in SAO, I'd look at other options.

[einherjarvalk]

I actually had almost the exact same thread a while back and went with the LTT Elite. The lack of a decocker and firing pin safety on the S2 (and the fact that it's as heavy as a brick) made it unviable in my eyes for carry.

[gomerpyle]

What's more, the S2 is a HEAVY pistol.

[1986s4]

I've handled the Shadow 2 and I like CZ's in general but as others have said, it's heavy.. I know my pants wouldn't stay up carrying it. I carry a Beretta 92 compact which despite it's short butt handles very well for me and shoots quite flat.

[Kirk]

Thank you so much for the replies, guys! It looks like the LTT is the clear winner here lol. I'll definitely be picking one up this week. The weight is something I hadn't considered, as it would definitely be more difficult to carry all day. Any recommendations on aftermarket mags (with extra capacity) or anything else that any of you found worth adding to the gun?

[spinmove_]

Thank you so much for the replies, guys! It looks like the LTT is the clear winner here lol. I'll definitely be picking one up this week. The weight is something I hadn't considered, as it would definitely be more difficult to carry all day. Any recommendations on aftermarket mags (with extra capacity) or anything else that any of you found worth adding to the gun?

The Mec-Gar 18 round magazines are pretty much the go to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doc_Glock]

Kirk

Check out this thread.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?33563-Picking-a-Metal-Framed-Handgun-LTT-Elite-vs-Shadow-2

[Daauto]

For the Mags --- GunMag Warehouse ,com -- fantastic people

[MSparks909]

Have both; will be selling my Shadow 2 soon. Nothing against the gun, it’s just my only CZ compared to quite a few 92s/PX4s so I figured it’d be smarter to just use my LTT Elite or another Beretta as my comp gun. The LTT 92 is truly a do-it-all gun...Carry, competition or home defense.

[Clusterfrack]

For competition, the gun doesn’t matter all that much, especially if you’re shooting Lim minor from concealment. If you want to compete with what you carry, pick based on carry.

I want to push the competition side as far as I can, and will take any advantage I can find. So, I compete in Production with a S2, and carry a similar but practical gun (P-07).

[David S.]

Are optics a consideration?

[cheby]

The gun does not matter; the approach to practice and competition does. Timmydom is one of the biggest obstacle to shooting skills development... IMHO.

[Kirk]

Kirk

Check out this thread.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?33563-Picking-a-Metal-Framed-Handgun-LTT-Elite-vs-Shadow-2

Thank you sir! Very helpful thread. Cannot believe I missed basically the same thread from only a month ago lol.

[Kirk]

Are optics a consideration?

For the time being, I'll probably continue to stick with irons on whichever gun I choose. I have shot dots a good bit though, and may return to one in the future, though it'll probably be on an open gun. Definitely think they are the future.

[Bucky]

What's more, the S2 is a HEAVY pistol.

THIS! Couldn’t imagine packing one of these on a regular basis.

[CraigS]

One other option occurred to me. Consider a PX4 either compact or full size. LTT does both. Search around for Ernest's thread on his 50,000 round test of his compact.

[JimLob65]

I know you have asked about two pistols in particular, and I think the LTT is an OUTSTANDING pistol all around, but if you were interested in a SAO pistol that is carry-safe you might consider a SAO SIG P226. Very good trigger with a very short reset, ergonomic, with a firing pin block and 1911 style safety.

I don't shoot competition myself, but find the triggers on my WC Berettas and my LTT, all ordered with action tune/trigger jobs equal to or better than my SAO Legion, but not as good as the trigger on my P226RX SAO so YMMV.

Just a suggestion. Personally I think you have received excellent advise here given your parameters.

[Dorsai]

I picked up some Mec-Gar 18rd magazines at https://grabagun.com/mec-gar-mag-beretta-92-9mm-18rd-afc.html for $20.89 ea. That was the best price I could find. With shipping, 3 of them cost me $69.70.

[GuanoLoco]

A point of practical order - good luck finding concealed carry holsters for a Shadow 2.

[Bucky]

A point of practical order - good luck finding concealed carry holsters for a Shadow 2.

True. It's hard enough finding them for Beretta these days. It seems once the Kydex companies get really big, they actually reduce their gun list. I remember a time when Comp-Tac and Blade Tech made holsters for just about everything. Now it seems it's GLOCK, 1911, and a couple others.

[MSparks909]

A point of practical order - good luck finding concealed carry holsters for a Shadow 2.

JM Custom makes some...I’ve got a AIWB for mine

[Manbearspider]

If it's for competition and carry, I think the Elite has the advantage. That said, (and it was mentioned earlier in the thread), give the LTT PX4s a look. Ernest's full size PX4 is one of those guns you just laugh while shooting, and a tuned up Compact mod 4 or 5 is a hell of a sleeper for a gun that can do both reasonably well.

[Bucky]

If it's for competition and carry, I think the Elite has the advantage. That said, (and it was mentioned earlier in the thread), give the LTT PX4s a look. Ernest's full size PX4 is one of those guns you just laugh while shooting, and a tuned up Compact mod 4 or 5 is a hell of a sleeper for a gun that can do both reasonably well.

Having shot all, a PX4, Beretta Elite 2, and Shadow 2 in competition, I think the PX4 is way outclassed as a competition gun. I think the Shadow 2 has an edge over a souped up 92, but even with the most aggressive mods, a PX4 is a distant 3rd. Nothing against the PX4, it does make a darn fine carry, HD, or service pistol.

[BobRockefeller]

Having shot all, a PX4, Beretta Elite 2, and Shadow 2 in competition, I think the PX4 is way outclassed as a competition gun. I think the Shadow 2 has an edge over a souped up 92, but even with the most aggressive mods, a PX4 is a distant 3rd. Nothing against the PX4, it does make a darn fine carry, HD, or service pistol.

A freind of mine is a fine USPSA/IDPA shooter and a Beretta fan. He shoots both his M9 and his PX4 full-size in competition and wishes to move to the PX4, but he is more accurate at modest to longer distances with the M9, so he hasn't switched.

[taadski]

[Unpopular opinion warning] If you're already carrying the Glock 17 dally and find it adequate in that role, my advice would be to avoid going down the gear rabbit hole. Instead, buy a second Glock (17, 34, whatever) and get to training/competing. They make a fine competitive pistol. The DA/SA pistols offer zero advantage from a dry fire standpoint. [Unpopular opinion warning]

[Clusterfrack]

[Unpopular opinion warning] If you're already carrying the Glock 17 dally and find it adequate in that role, my advice would be to avoid going down the gear rabbit hole. Instead, buy a second Glock (17, 34, whatever) and get to training/competing. They make a fine competitive pistol. The DA/SA pistols offer zero advantage from a dry fire standpoint. [Unpopular opinion warning]

I completely and totally agree.

[pastaslinger]

[Unpopular opinion warning] If you're already carrying the Glock 17 dally and find it adequate in that role, my advice would be to avoid going down the gear rabbit hole. Instead, buy a second Glock (17, 34, whatever) and get to training/competing. They make a fine competitive pistol. The DA/SA pistols offer zero advantage from a dry fire standpoint. [Unpopular opinion warning]

Berettas are cooler and the cost difference isn't humungous like it would be with a 1911

[Larry Sellers]

if you're going for "cooler" buy a Ferrari...

speaking as someone who did the whole USPSA, carry, range/fun gun rotation

If you're already running a glock go right ahead and get a 34 or whatever you'd like to and mess with it to make it a competition gun.

I've spent way too much money on stuff I no longer own to shoot some matches and realize that the polymer guns in my safe would have gotten me the same rank in the match as an"insert DA/SA gun here"

[spinmove_]

[Unpopular opinion warning] If you're already carrying the Glock 17 dally and find it adequate in that role, my advice would be to avoid going down the gear rabbit hole. Instead, buy a second Glock (17, 34, whatever) and get to training/competing. They make a fine competitive pistol. The DA/SA pistols offer zero advantage from a dry fire standpoint. [Unpopular opinion warning]

Honestly, also agree. Unless you have another reason or reasons for jumping platforms, you’d be better off simply running what you’ve got until you reach a level where the hardware is truly holding you back. I’d be willing to bet it won’t be holding you back until you hit M class or higher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Honestly, also agree. Unless you have another reason or reasons for jumping platforms, you’d be better off simply running what you’ve got until you reach a level where the hardware is truly holding you back. I’d be willing to bet it won’t be holding you back until you hit M class or higher.


Especially if you're shooting Lim minor from concealment...

[GJM]

Honestly, also agree. Unless you have another reason or reasons for jumping platforms, you’d be better off simply running what you’ve got until you reach a level where the hardware is truly holding you back. I’d be willing to bet it won’t be holding you back until you hit M class or higher.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shooter skill trumps hardware, especially for defensive shooting. Competition, however, is designed to magnify tiny little differences in shooter ability.

As to hardware, the dilemma is knowing when the hardware “truly” is holding you back. Max Leograndis is constantly tweaking his PCC gear, and most GM shooters I know are tinkerers. The reason they tinker, is they are looking for every advantage that will result in a higher score. And of course, they are working just as hard at dry and live fire, so the equipment stuff is not a substitute for hard work.

Running the pad during a steel match today, I got to watch a number of shooters. What stood between them and better results was mostly technique, but I also saw folks struggle with hardware. A stock Glock trigger, for example, does not tolerate underdeveloped trigger control. Some guns split better, some transition better, some are more accurate and others are easier to reload. Different shooting problems favor different platforms, although USPSA is generally varied enough, that the various strengths of different platforms get evened out across a whole match.

Something that has taken me a while to learn, is to focus my effort on one platform at a time so my effort is focused on skill building rather than on refamiliarizing or constant evaluation.

[BN]

I have an Elite LTT, a CZ Custom CZ Shadow (not a Shadow 2) and several Glock 17's. I've shot all 3 extensively in IDPA and some USPSA. I keep going back to my old faithful G-17.