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View Full Version : NoVA KSTG Match at the NRA Range: Tu 27-March



ToddG
03-05-2012, 07:24 PM
KSTG (http://pistol-forum.com/kstg) match
Tuesday 27-March-2012
$25
Estimated Round Count: 50-60
Squads begin at 5pm, 6pm, 7pm, 8pm, and 9pm. Six people maximum per squad.

Signups begin on Monday 12-March. You can call the NRA Range @ 703-267-1402 to reserve a slot at that time. Calling before Monday 12-March will not get you a slot and will likely just annoy the folks who let us run our matches.

MikeyC
03-05-2012, 09:22 PM
We spoke about some props at the January Match. Do you still want me to make those happen?

ToddG
03-05-2012, 09:26 PM
We spoke about some props at the January Match. Do you still want me to make those happen?

They just got a new range manager and I need to discuss some of those details with him. I'm out of town this entire week teaching in California so odds are I won't even be able to get things worked out on my end until this month's match. So... long story short, don't worry about if for now. But we're definitely interested! Some of the stuff we talked about sounds incredible.

bdcheung
03-12-2012, 08:05 AM
In for the 8pm squad.

JConn
03-12-2012, 09:49 AM
And it's full. I was told by staff at the nra range signups started on the 19th. My alarm was set for the 19th. So it filled up in the two hours it took me to realize. Pretty bummed...

JV_
03-12-2012, 09:53 AM
The 6 pm relay was filled in 6 minutes.

-Sent using Tapatalk.

MikeyC
03-12-2012, 10:11 AM
They were down to 3 spots by 0930 this morning. I caught the 8pm slot

Nate
03-20-2012, 05:42 AM
Woohoo! I got a slot for 7pm off the waiting list. I get to play along :cool:

LittleLebowski
03-20-2012, 07:30 AM
I missed the call that Nate got :(

JV_
03-20-2012, 07:31 AM
I know at least one more will open up, on the 5 o'clock squad. I just need to finalize my schedule.

lindertw
03-26-2012, 07:15 PM
LittleL, I won't be able to make it tomorrow night. You're welcome to snag my 5pm slot (Tom L).

LittleLebowski
03-26-2012, 07:29 PM
LittleL, I won't be able to make it tomorrow night. You're welcome to snag my 5pm slot (Tom L).

Definitely. I'll call them tomorrow and make sure. Thanks, man.

joshs
03-27-2012, 10:55 AM
One 6pm spot just opened due to a cancellation. Please pm me if you are interested in taking this spot.

bdcheung
03-27-2012, 10:58 AM
Is there a way to confirm we are on a squad? I am 99% sure the lady told me I'm in the 8pm squad but she asked me for my contact # "in case there is a cancellation". Upon further reflection I'm not sure if that means I'm on a wait list and will be notified of an opening, or if it means they'll call me if the whole event is cancelled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

televiper
03-27-2012, 01:08 PM
Is there a way to confirm we are on a squad? I am 99% sure the lady told me I'm in the 8pm squad but she asked me for my contact # "in case there is a cancellation". Upon further reflection I'm not sure if that means I'm on a wait list and will be notified of an opening, or if it means they'll call me if the whole event is cancelled.


Just give the range a call and ask; they won't mind.

JV_
03-27-2012, 06:11 PM
The classifier kicked my butt, again.

JConn
03-27-2012, 07:55 PM
The classifier kicked my butt, again.

At least you didn't have a malfunction that you tried to clear, which caused a more serious malfunction which you then cleared but cost you ten seconds on the very first stage. That would suck:mad:

LittleLebowski
03-27-2012, 07:59 PM
The classifier kicked my butt, again.

Oh, I'm sure you were still two seconds faster than I was.

abu fitna
03-27-2012, 08:54 PM
Thanks all for another very good match. Good times had by all, and lessons learned as every time. All mistakes solely on the part of the shooter. But as always the range officers were great and Todd's patience does not appear to have been too far tested.

Todd, my wife had a good laugh when I relayed your comment regarding my knuckles... and sorry about the brass deflection.

Hope you still got to eat the cereal, and that the lead isn't going to make it "frosted" tasting.

Vinh
03-27-2012, 10:36 PM
Enjoyed the match! Didn't fare too well this time, so definitely looking forward to the next one.

kle
03-27-2012, 10:41 PM
Whoo! Good match. I wasn't planning on shooting, but I did for S's and G's (and because another guy couldn't make the 9PM relay). Lemme tell you what, I smoked the first stage with a blazing fast time of 25 seconds flat. Yup, nailed it.

MikeyC
03-28-2012, 05:24 AM
At least you didn't have a malfunction that you tried to clear, which caused a more serious malfunction which you then cleared but cost you ten seconds on the very first stage. That would suck:mad:

Which is only superceded by a sudden attack of ADHD where you lose points because you forget to remember how many shouts you're suppossed to put on the target :mad::mad::mad:

...and I got nobody to blame but me

Nate
03-28-2012, 05:44 AM
Whoo! Good match. I wasn't planning on shooting, but I did for S's and G's (and because another guy couldn't make the 9PM relay). Lemme tell you what, I smoked the first stage with a blazing fast time of 25 seconds flat. Yup, nailed it.

Or my even blazing fasterer raw time of 29.65, down one, for good measure. Mercifully, I shot a G34, so my scores don't count and won't be posted.

In related news, don't change your sights then try to hit a 25 yard popper with your first shot... :confused: I shot about 5 misses on the popper, switched over to the cardboard, saw I was *way* on the left, went back to the popper, and had to hold well off the popper to the right. (Or, maybe I just suck. It being off to the left, afterall. Though nothing like that before I swapped out the sights)

And thanks to our host for running the match. It was lots of fun, and definitely points out some things I need to work on. Like pistol shooting.

LittleLebowski
03-28-2012, 06:26 AM
Whoo! Good match. I wasn't planning on shooting, but I did for S's and G's (and because another guy couldn't make the 9PM relay). Lemme tell you what, I smoked the first stage with a blazing fast time of 25 seconds flat. Yup, nailed it.

Revolver again? Did TJ shoot?

bdcheung
03-28-2012, 06:46 AM
Last night was my first match of any sort and it was a blast. Stages were fun and challenging, and I realized how easy it is to completely forget your fundamentals when you're in the heat of the moment. Even more reason to break things down during practice and go s-l-o-w.

Thanks, Todd, and everyone else who work hard to make events like this possible!

LittleLebowski
03-28-2012, 07:15 AM
I am very greatful to Todd and the volunteers for putting on this match. It's more than a little unpaid work.

kle
03-28-2012, 08:28 AM
Revolver again? Did TJ shoot?

Yup, Nope.

I was there to help tape and witness bdcheung's first match at 8PM, and to watch TJ's run at 9PM. I didn't bring any of my equipment, except for a light jacket (I was anticipating it being cold on the range), my bullet-launching device, and the five rounds in the chambers -- I didn't even bring ear protection and was borrowing a set from the range.

TJ got stuck in Alexandria, and there was no one else waiting on a 9PM slot, so I bought a box of ammo, borrowed a pair of speedloaders, and jumped in the mix.

baronfitz
03-28-2012, 08:49 AM
Had a good time myself, although my shooting wasn't the best. I think I figured out what happened with the dead trigger I had at the beginning of one stage. Seems that my M&P is afflicted with sear bounce. Time to take it out of my carry lineup until this is rectified.

Realizing that my go-to handgun has a flaw that could get me killed if I had to use it for real was worth the entry fee, even if my score was sub-par. Other lesson learned: get a decent amount of sleep before a match, lest your focus suffer.

Thanks to Todd and the rest of the range crew running the match...they had far more patience than I would have had in their shoes.

ToddG
03-28-2012, 09:43 AM
I'll try to have the scores tallied and posted by this afternoon. I've also got video I'll try to get posted as time allows. Though given my performance last night, it will serve more for comedic purpose than anything else...

Most interesting thing to me from the match, and something I'll definitely talk about on my site later: quite a few people were distracted by the magazines they placed on the table during the Classifier. Instead of trying to reload from the mag on their belt, they first reached for one of the magazines on the table... even though many of those magazines didn't have enough bullets to finish the drill, requiring either a second reload or quitting without firing all six rounds.

I also realized during the last squad that we weren't following the reload rule on stage two (turn and fire 5 on each of 3 targets, aka "Wrath of Kang!"). The rules clearly require shooters to go to slidelock/empty gun for that, and we told people they could do any kind of reload they wanted whenever they wanted.

Finally, the number of people who are demonstrably incapable of counting to "6" in their heads while shooting never ceases to amaze me. I'm saying that sincerely... some of the best shooters I know struggle with it. I'd say about 20% of the shooters fired either 4 or 5 rounds at the first target of the stage with the popper.

genebofunk
03-28-2012, 10:19 AM
I know speaking for myself that the last stage "classifier" I tried to be efficient in how I loaded my magazines to try and minimize down time. That had the unintened consequence of me shooting 2 rounds to the head then procededing to shoot 4 to the body and stopping for a scecond and realizing that my gun did not go to slide lock and Todd looking at me. I then for some reason thought I had not fired the required amount of rounds then shot one more round to the body thus putting my gun to slide lock and having Todd give me a puzzled look before I realized I shot five in the body instead of four. Oh shit, penalties here I come. Next time I will pay more attention to the course of fire and how I set up my gear. Oh well live and learn. Since this was my first kstg I believe the second will go more smoothly. Thanks for taking the time to set it up an baby sit us, Todd.

abu fitna
03-28-2012, 10:45 AM
I personally detest round counting myself, but I see the value of having that as a cognitive element to keep one a bit more in the thinking side of the game than simpler execution of action. One of the reasons why I went for the belt and braces approach on the V stage... wasn't convinced I had anchored the targets properly, so when I had to take the reload after missing the furthest headshot I figured a few extra shots would be the correct answer.

Further to the point of the mags on table distraction, I found myself shooting more "administrative" with the damn "bench" in front of me than I would have liked, and weakening both stance and weapon frame (slouching towards Weaver). Too many training scars from an earlier life - amazing how these things pop up from the littlest cues. All the more reason to train under multiple environments.

ToddG
03-28-2012, 11:21 AM
Further to the point of the mags on table distraction, I found myself shooting more "administrative" with the damn "bench" in front of me than I would have liked, and weakening both stance and weapon frame (slouching towards Weaver). Too many training scars from an earlier life - amazing how these things pop up from the littlest cues. All the more reason to train under multiple environments.

The setup crew actually had some discussion about the table, and one of the ROs also mentioned it later in the night viz-a-vis the danger of it getting shot, etc. But you pointed out half the reason we did it that way: it's different and people shouldn't be affected by the presence of a table when shooting. The other reason, of course, was that it (hypothetically) made magazine administration easier during the Classifier.

In the future, I think we're just going to tell people to load 2, 6, 6, 5 and let the chips fall where they may.

MEH
03-28-2012, 11:31 AM
In the future, I think we're just going to tell people to load 2, 6, 6, 5 and let the chips fall where they may.

19 rounds? That will really confuse them. ;)

I think just letting folks know the constraints is enough. I actually like your way of 1, 1, 1, 4+, 4+ and 4+. Forces me to know what's in the pistol and reload pouch at the start. Just have to remember how to count to 4.

JConn
03-28-2012, 11:41 AM
Or 2,1,1,14. Works for me.

joshs
03-28-2012, 11:46 AM
Or 2,1,1,14. Works for me.

This is how I normally setup for the FAST, but you cannot load more than 10 rounds in a magazine at a KSTG match.

JConn
03-28-2012, 11:49 AM
Would it really matter on a classifier that has a limited round count anyhow.

MEH
03-28-2012, 11:55 AM
Would it really matter on a classifier that has a limited round count anyhow.

According to the rules the only exemptions for the classifier are:

"Note that the Classifier is exempt from the prohibition on limited number of rounds
fired, mandatory target order, and mandatory reload type/location."

I believe the max of 10 rounds in a mag would still hold. Of course rules can be changed.....last night Todd even made reference to loading a mag to 16 or 17 and shooting all reloads from that mag....I went with 4+ in my reload mags just to be safe from procedurals, I've had enough procedurals in these matches....

JeffJ
03-28-2012, 12:10 PM
Down here in Texas and won't be shooting KSTG anytime soon (or ever - but I'm rooting for expansion) - but I thought I'd add this - matches are supposed to make you problem solve/ think with a gun and that includes ammo management - if the stress or pressure or whatever is causing you to forget how many rounds you put where or not put mags on your belt or whatever - then the answer isn't for the MD to make it easier, the answer is for the shooter to address what he's doing wrong and deal with the stress/ pressure etc.

Which is what it sounds like everybody wants to do here BTW

MEH
03-28-2012, 12:27 PM
matches are supposed to make you problem solve/ think with a gun and that includes ammo management - if the stress or pressure or whatever is causing you to forget how many rounds you put where or not put mags on your belt or whatever - then the answer isn't for the MD to make it easier, the answer is for the shooter to address what he's doing wrong and deal with the stress/ pressure etc.


Nail, meet hammer.

ToddG
03-28-2012, 04:45 PM
TrophyNameTotalClassPoints DownClassifier High OverallTodd Green35.28Master415.61 1st B-ClassJosh Savani51.73B1522.92 1st DA/SAJames Ventre 52.87B1430.34 1st A-ClassJoseph Conners61.42A720.62 Vinh Tran64.19A922.75 Michael Harnage66.29B831.68 Baxter Shepperson66.67B424.84 Caleb Fitzgerald67.50B1127.79 1st C-ClassSteve Gonsalves70.11C1031.26 2nd C-ClassGene Gerhiser72.87C1735.81 Ed Lynch75.49C1432.71 Arvid Roach76.44C233.63 Brian Cheung84.73C1537.85 Joel Burton86.31C1939.84 John B. Gaines87.68C1338.56 1st D-ClassTroy Hammond89.08D2542.86 Chris Goodrich91.36C2637.51 2nd D-Class, 1st MajorJoshua Work92.41D1942.55 3rd D-ClassCody Claxton93.24D1544.83 Michael Brennan94.06D3351.70 Matt Martin94.30D1845.75 Julian Gaeta97.96D3641.38 Greg Zell100.28D2346.83 Daniel Diggs101.88D1250.82 John Gallagher104.05D2943.32 Recardo Alexander107.28C2248.35 Josh Reynolds108.21D3452.38 George Snyder111.42D2844.95 David Doan112.33C1534.64 Allen Goshi113.54D2247.78 Bradley Smith121.01D2757.94 Michael Coleman121.57D3850.97 Charlie Dove122.43D1954.20 Khang Le125.24D345.67 Laura Snyder152.86D2686.02 Nate Guernsey -- SWSS.W.S.D

ToddG
03-28-2012, 05:03 PM
An Apple Numbers version of the results is available here (http://pistol-forum.com/kstg/KSTG-120327-results.numbers). Starting next month, the Apple Numbers file will be the only results I post. The time it takes to convert it into a nice-looking PDF and a web table is just more than I have time for after eleven hours of setting up and running a match the night before.

MEH
03-28-2012, 05:41 PM
That one appears to not have all the stages in it. Do you have that one available? I'll do any formatting and converting in the future if you want.

JV_
03-28-2012, 06:04 PM
1st A-Class Joseph Conners 61.42 A 7 20.62

A-Class .... Nice Job!

bdcheung
03-28-2012, 06:11 PM
Three cheers for mediocrity!

Actually, bottom of the C class is better than I expected.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ToddG
03-28-2012, 07:00 PM
That one appears to not have all the stages in it. Do you have that one available? I'll do any formatting and converting in the future if you want.

Doh! Let me check ...

edited to add: OK, I fixed it. The file was complete, but the stage columns were hidden. I unhid them and uploaded the file again. It should be fine now. I hope.

JConn
03-28-2012, 07:16 PM
A-Class .... Nice Job!

Thanks man, might of actually given you a run for your money if my gun hadn't made a mess of the bed. Nice shooting yourself!

JV_
03-28-2012, 07:35 PM
Thanks. I hope to not totally blow the classifier again, 9 points down really hurt.

-Sent using Tapatalk.

kle
03-28-2012, 09:08 PM
Actually, bottom of the C class is better than I expected.

Nice job!



Did I win (and lose) the revolver class again?

LittleLebowski
03-28-2012, 09:49 PM
Being on the staff of this forum makes me feel like the black sheep with my scores.....

JDM
03-28-2012, 09:56 PM
Being on the staff of this forum makes me feel like the black sheep with my scores.....

I'll fly up for a match. You'll feel much better about yourself after. :o

MEH
03-28-2012, 10:34 PM
Here (http://w1mt.qrpradio.com/KSTG-120327.xls) are the results for the restofus.

JV_
03-29-2012, 07:58 AM
Being on the staff of this forum makes me feel like the black sheep with my scores.....If you move out my way, I'll drag you to the range for practice - weekly!

LittleLebowski
03-29-2012, 08:02 AM
If you move out my way, I'll drag you to the range for practice - weekly!

That's part of the plan, me lad. Might have finished up the background check yesterday afternoon.

ToddG
03-29-2012, 08:57 AM
Did I win (and lose) the revolver class again?

Yes. It takes two people in a given sub-category (DA/SA, revo, major, etc.) to declare a "1st place."


Here (http://w1mt.qrpradio.com/KSTG-120327.xls) are the results for the restofus.

Thanks again, beastfrog!

bdcheung
03-29-2012, 11:20 AM
Here (http://w1mt.qrpradio.com/KSTG-120327.xls) are the results for the restofus.

I owe you a beer, sir.

crofrog
04-16-2012, 09:22 PM
I'm new here, and I might just be dense... Whens the next match?

Thanks
Chris