Input Sought on 20” AR-15 build

[LockedBreech]

I’m sure there are 10,000+ threads like this on ARFCOM, M4, etc. sorry to add to the noise, but these days I’m only really interested in PF opinion.

I’ve been catching sales the last year and a half with the goal of building a low cost but fully combat reliable no-frills 20” AR to complement my 16” Daniel Defense M4V1 carbine. So far I have a Stag stripped receiver, CMMG lower parts kit, PMAG Gen M3, and as of a moment ago a Sons of Liberty Gun Works NP3 coated Carpenter 158 BCG. Total cost into the gun so far: Approx $330-360.

So, factoring in a basic set of back up iron sights (say MBUS) and the fact that I already have a basic red dot, who makes the best 20” upper that hits the sweet spot between hobby build and combat build? I don’t need Knights or Daniel or LWRC quality, but I want it to run hard and dirty without undue concern.

Thanks for humoring me.


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[NH Shooter]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-20-rifle-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-freedom-upper-no-bcg-or-charging-handle-516445940.html

[LockedBreech]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-20-rifle-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-freedom-upper-no-bcg-or-charging-handle-516445940.html

The PSA Black Friday is good enough that I have one in the cart, I just read continuing conflicting reports about how good to go their stuff is.


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[Palisut]

This BCM upper is 35% off for Black Friday.

https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Standard-20-Upper-Receiver-Group-w-Midwest-I-p/bcm-urg-std-20-mi-ssk15.htm

[rcbusmc24]

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-556-20-complete-upper-fsb

This one will give you and upper just like a M16A4, complete with detachable carry handle, A post and plastic handguards....

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m4e1-556-20in-rifle-complete-upper

This is a AERO M4E1 20 inch upper that is free floated with your choice of m lok, keymod or Pic rail handguards...

I love the Aero stuff and trust their quality to run very well. Even though the price might be a little more than PSA

[NH Shooter]

...I just read continuing conflicting reports about how good to go their stuff is.

Isn't that all part of the fun with budget builds? Unless something is really out-of-spec, most is fixable. I'd be OK with a PSA upper sans BCG for this purpose.

Here's one I'm tempted to drop into the cart;

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-moe-dissipator-upper-black-no-bcg-or-ch-516445356.html

[Sensei]

BCM>Aero>Palmetto

I have several BCM lowers, uppers, and complete rifles. They’re excellent and every bit the quality of my Colts. I’ve used Aero lower’s for a couple of builds and they were very nice and well within spec. Palmetto’s stuff seems OK but I’ve seen a couple of instances of poor staking of gas keys and castle nuts. See the Palmetto staking job on the left as an example of what I’m talking about.

32570

[HeavyDuty]

Of all of my ARs where I’ve bought a complete barreled upper instead of wrenching my own, I like my BCM and DD ones the best. I’d be looking hard at BCM sales.

[fatdog]

Another vote for BCM, own several, never seen or heard (first hand) of a problem upper from those guys.

[Duelist]

The PSA Black Friday is good enough that I have one in the cart, I just read continuing conflicting reports about how good to go their stuff is.


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I got one of those PSA 20” uppers on a deal of the day last summer, paid the same as the Black Friday deal.

Everything about it works. The upper was tight on the charging handle till it wore in. I only have a couple hundred rounds through it so far, but I am pleased with it for the money I paid. I have a PEPR mount and a 2-7 Burris Fullfield II in it currently. Don’t even see the front sight through the scope, even at 2x.

[Casual Friday]

Pass on PSA unless you're on a Ramen noodles and Ketchup budget and don't mind probably having to to defucktard it. I got burned by their quality in the past and swore them off for years. I decided to give them another chance and ordered a stripped lower for a rainy day and the midlength dissipator. The lower is fine, the upper is dog shit. No charging handles will fit this upper without removing material from the side of the charging handle. BCM, Colt, and a couple no names I have are all binding up. I fit one of the no name charging handles to it and was gonna live with it. I went to remove the handguard to inspect the low profile gas block to make sure it was secured properly, another PSA problem I've had in the past, and realized something was off. The handguard had a slight gap in the middle, and was near impossible to remove with my bare hands.

I finally got it off and noticed that material has been removed from the front and rear of the handguard. When the fucktard at PSA installed the FSB, they installed it too far rearward and no handguard will fit without modification. I verified this with a brand new set of Magpul rifle length handguards. You cannot get the slip ring back far enough to put the unmodified handguard in place. I put the custom PSA fitted handguard back on and will verify function on Black Friday. I should just send it back at this point, but since this was never gonna be anything but a fuck around range toy that I could loan to friends when we go to the range, I will keep it if it runs properly to serve as a reminder that I should have stuck to my original plan which was to never buy anything built by PSA during their sales.

[farscott]

BCM or Colt are my default choices. Unfortunately Colt uppers seem to be hard to come by at the moment, so BCM would get the nod.

https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-20-Rifle-Upper-Group-s/26.htm

[ACP230]

CDNN in Texas has had Colt uppers fairly recently.
And a whole lot of other AR stuff.

[ranger]

I bought a BCM BLEM upper receiver and a Bergara 20 inch heavy AR barrel and had local AR smith assemble. I buy parts year round and keep on hand.That Bergara barrel is very nice and shoots my 77 grain reloads 1 inch. I just ordered another Bergara Lightweight 20 barrel with a discount code.

I have good luck with PSA stuff and Primary Arms optics. I do not need every AR upper to be world class. I like to try new calibers like 6.8, 6.5G, and now 224V. Cannot recommend the PSA 1-7 224V barrel but they are not only ones with 224v issues

[LockedBreech]

Thanks guys. Thinking to do. I love BCM stuff but if I go that route I’ll have $1000+ into the rifle which kinda makes it not a budget build anymore. That said, I asked for combat ready and bcm certainly is. I’ll check out aero a bit more.

I’ll post pics of whatever Frankenstein I end up making


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[MistWolf]

Currently, there are several complete Colt 20" A4 uppers on Gunbroker.

[Malamute]

When i was looking around a year or so ago I saw several Colt 20" guns, a Match Targer Hbar and a stock A4 rifle in the $750-$850 range on m4c. Id be hard pressed to want to build something with those prices.

Semi-recently Brownells had Colt 20" Hbar barrels with FSB for $150 on sale I think. That with a BCM blem upper and BCG would cover that need fairly well and fairly reasonably so long as the Hbar doesnt bother you.

FWIW, the 20" guns are my favorite AR type by a long ways. Much more pleasant to shoot in every way other than the size thing. I hardly ever kick in doors, so they suit me quite well.

[Screwball]

I’m actually looking for a post NJ build, for my lower that is sitting at my godmother’s house in PA. Sitting there because it has a Fostech Echo trigger in it... which is no go in NJ (state definition defines it as a machine gun).

My other uppers are 16”, with the exception being my scoped FDE rifle... which is an 18” Wylde. Always wanted to do a 20”, and figuring it will be a toy... why not?

I’m going with DelTon. It may not be Colt, but I can set the upper up closer to how I want than I can with BCM. Do a few different options for barrels... light, Government, and heavy. Multiple forend options, and muzzle brakes.

Really, the only thing I need is an M16 bolt carrier (works with that generation of trigger). DelTon isn’t a bad company, yet a good value product. 20” uppers are a little more limited with choices compared to 14.5” or 16”. I did consider Stag, which never really heard a lot of bad about. However, after that license thing that happened in 2016... kind of decided to look elsewhere, as I wasn’t sure about their future.

[HCM]

I’m sure there are 10,000+ threads like this on ARFCOM, M4, etc. sorry to add to the noise, but these days I’m only really interested in PF opinion.

I’ve been catching sales the last year and a half with the goal of building a low cost but fully combat reliable no-frills 20” AR to complement my 16” Daniel Defense M4V1 carbine. So far I have a Stag stripped receiver, CMMG lower parts kit, PMAG Gen M3, and as of a moment ago a Sons of Liberty Gun Works NP3 coated Carpenter 158 BCG. Total cost into the gun so far: Approx $330-360.

So, factoring in a basic set of back up iron sights (say MBUS) and the fact that I already have a basic red dot, who makes the best 20” upper that hits the sweet spot between hobby build and combat build? I don’t need Knights or Daniel or LWRC quality, but I want it to run hard and dirty without undue concern.

Thanks for humoring me.


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Are you wanting an M16A4 clone or just a 20” Rifle ?

I am a big fan of SOLGW I am biased as they are local to me. That said they are a quality manufacturer on par with BCM, SIONICS, DD, Colt etc

They have a 20” option on their East India Starter kit (basically SOLGW version of an OEM upper). Comes with a A frame front sight but they can cut /shave it for you if you want to run a 15” rail.

https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/collections/sale-items/products/east-india-starter-kit?variant=16640744513

If you want a Free float handguard, Geissle and ALG will be having their Black Friday sale - G rails are as good as it gets.


If you want a precision build the SOGW 18” Precision East India kit is an amazing deal. The difference being a stainless 1/7 match barrel with .223 Wylde chamber (can shoot both 223 and 556)


If you are doing a M4 type stock or.a magpul PRS SOLGW has VLTOR A5 kits on sale - the A5 uses a heavy buffer and a longer buffer tube for better function - it was originally designed as part of a “A5” M4 type stock upgrade for USMC M16A4’s.

https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/collections/sale-items/products/vltor-a5-buffer-system-kit?variant=3084170945

Call them and they can advise the best buffer weight for a 20” rifle gas.

[HCM]

Pass on PSA unless you're on a Ramen noodles and Ketchup budget and don't mind probably having to to defucktard it. I got burned by their quality in the past and swore them off for years. I decided to give them another chance and ordered a stripped lower for a rainy day and the midlength dissipator. The lower is fine, the upper is dog shit. No charging handles will fit this upper without removing material from the side of the charging handle. BCM, Colt, and a couple no names I have are all binding up. I fit one of the no name charging handles to it and was gonna live with it. I went to remove the handguard to inspect the low profile gas block to make sure it was secured properly, another PSA problem I've had in the past, and realized something was off. The handguard had a slight gap in the middle, and was near impossible to remove with my bare hands.

I finally got it off and noticed that material has been removed from the front and rear of the handguard. When the fucktard at PSA installed the FSB, they installed it too far rearward and no handguard will fit without modification. I verified this with a brand new set of Magpul rifle length handguards. You cannot get the slip ring back far enough to put the unmodified handguard in place. I put the custom PSA fitted handguard back on and will verify function on Black Friday. I should just send it back at this point, but since this was never gonna be anything but a fuck around range toy that I could loan to friends when we go to the range, I will keep it if it runs properly to serve as a reminder that I should have stuck to my original plan which was to never buy anything built by PSA during their sales.

Agree with all of this. PSA is a roll of the dice every time. Like. Forest’s box of chocolates you never know what you are going to get.

[LockedBreech]

Are you wanting an M16A4 clone or just a 20” Rifle ?

I am a big fan of SOLGW I am biased as they are local to me. That said they are a quality manufacturer on par with BCM, SIONICS, DD, Colt etc

They have a 20” option on their East India Starter kit (basically SOLGW version of an OEM upper). Comes with a A frame front sight but they can cut /shave it for you if you want to run a 15” rail.

https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/collections/sale-items/products/east-india-starter-kit?variant=16640744513

If you want a Free float handguard, Geissle and ALG will be having their Black Friday sale - G rails are as good as it gets.


If you want a precision build the SOGW 18” Precision East India kit is an amazing deal. The difference being a stainless 1/7 match barrel with .223 Wylde chamber (can shoot both 223 and 556)


If you are doing a M4 type stock or.a magpul PRS SOLGW has VLTOR A5 kits on sale - the A5 uses a heavy buffer and a longer buffer tube for better function - it was originally designed as part of a “A5” M4 type stock upgrade for USMC M16A4’s.

https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/collections/sale-items/products/vltor-a5-buffer-system-kit?variant=3084170945

Call them and they can advise the best buffer weight for a 20” rifle gas.

Awesome info, I don’t think I’ve put quite enough thought into my build yet. Glad I didn’t buy from the hip (and excited for my NP3 BCG)


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[farscott]

Another option is White Oak Armament. While more of a target/hunting product, I have been very pleased with my WOA uppers, including a twenty-inch varmint upper that I have configured as a precision (for me) rifle. WOA offers round carbon fiber handguards, which I like for both the light weight and thermal performance.

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/shop/complete-uppers.html?barrel_caliber=14&barrel_length=4&dir=asc&order=price

[HCM]

Awesome info, I don’t think I’ve put quite enough thought into my build yet. Glad I didn’t buy from the hip (and excited for my NP3 BCG)


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I have several of their BCG. They are on par with BCM etc.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Anyone here have any experience with DSA's AR offerings? They are supposed to be a go-to company for FAL products.

https://www.dsarms.com/c-784-upper-receiver.aspx

Back in the day*, I got 2 nitrided 16" carbine uppers for ~$250-300 each, and put them on CavArms lowers with Spike's BCG's, MOE handguards, and BCM charging handles. I haven't run them hard, but they have so far run well, and are light, handy packages. One of the uppers seemed a little tight on the BCGs, but has had no functional issues.

*This was way before you could get a 6920 for ~$700.