Remington double stack? [Archive]

El Cid

11-20-2018, 10:46 PM

Looks like a Para-Ordnance which is probably because Remington bought them. My Paras are great but always needed Wolff springs for the factory mags.

Now... Remington has a reputation for ruining brands it consumes. Marlin comes to mind as an example.

fatdog

11-20-2018, 10:49 PM

I believe all of their new double stack 1911 designs are nothing more than updated Para's.....never handled one yet.

Balisong

11-20-2018, 10:54 PM

They've managed to screw up 870s and now they're going to make Para Ordnance guns good?

Yeah no.

Bigghoss

11-21-2018, 12:52 AM

I haven't been excited for anything new from Remington for a long time and this is no exception. It brings me no pleasure to say that.

ranger

11-21-2018, 09:24 AM

May be good news for existing Para owners if the mags will work in the existing Para frames. I shot Paras in USPSA and liked them. Good luck to Remington!

PS - suspect that will be a heavy Commander with a double stack of 45s

vcdgrips

11-21-2018, 11:44 AM

El Cid

11-21-2018, 12:13 PM

If it ran, they could sell as many as they could make at full retail. I strongly suspect that given it's Para lineage, that it will not end well.

My first shooting mentor and his three training buddies (think Gunsite circa 1970's to date) own 100+ "1911" type weapons between them easily. Not one of them could keep a Para up and running for a full training day. Les Baer and the FBI HRT could not keep Para based double stacks up and running.

I wish it were not so. A 1300.00 all steel 9mm/45 double stack with a decent 1911 trigger (5 lbs with a bit of take up even), night sights from the factory would be a wonderful thing.

It can be done. My 1993-ish P14-45 runs like a champ. I wore it out, then sent it to Novak's in 2002 or 2003 for a new bbl/bushing, carry bevel, etc. Still runs great and I'd be perfectly happy to carry it daily. As time went on though I discovered that the mags were undersprung. It was at the point in the mid 2000's I would immediately throw away the OEM spring in a new mag and replace it with one from Wolff.

And the HRT guns ran great during trials. But there was some movement in personnel from Les Baer's shop and the guns Baer provided weren't the same quality as the ones he provided during the competition for the contract.

Hambo

11-21-2018, 12:54 PM

Long time coming, or soon to be train wreck?

https://www.remington.com/handguns/model-1911-r1/1911-r1-recon-commander-double-stack

Para or Remington? You be the judge.

http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/tactical/recon.php

Remington has fucked up every pistol they've tried to market in the last however many years, so it stands to reason this will suck too. Maybe more so because Para's already sucked. But maybe this could be like a room full of monkeys with typewriters who accidentally write Hamlet. Remington tries their usual best to fuck it up, but instead they unfuck it. I'm not holding my breath, but in theory it could happen.

Balisong

11-21-2018, 01:32 PM

Para or Remington? You be the judge.

http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/tactical/recon.php

Remington has fucked up every pistol they've tried to market in the last however many years, so it stands to reason this will suck too. Maybe more so because Para's already sucked. But maybe this could be like a room full of monkeys with typewriters who accidentally write Hamlet. Remington tries their usual best to fuck it up, but instead they unfuck it. I'm not holding my breath, but in theory it could happen.

Maybe you're onto something since 2 negatives make a positive....

Ichiban

11-21-2018, 07:07 PM

Long time coming, or soon to be train wreck?

https://www.remington.com/handguns/model-1911-r1/1911-r1-recon-commander-double-stack

Hope you are not thinking of the 9mm version. You know we Coloradans can't be trusted with more than 15 rounds. :(

MattyD380

11-21-2018, 07:22 PM

"...designed to meet the needs of the features minded 1911 fan."

Ah yes... the elusive "features minded" 1911 fans. A proud people, known to favor pic rails, ambi safeties and unnecessarily long beavertails.

After all these botched gun launches, apparently they can't afford copywriters.

cornstalker

11-21-2018, 07:54 PM

Hope you are not thinking of the 9mm version. You know we Coloradans can't be trusted with more than 15 rounds. :(

Well, there is that...

Frankly, I am not thinking about going that way at all. Just stirring up conversation. Lol

Jim Watson

11-21-2018, 08:07 PM

American Rifleman arrived today with Rem-POs.
The Tactical didn't shoot where it looked and the Tomasie didn't shoot.

RevolverRob

11-21-2018, 08:27 PM

Para-Orda tend to suck hard, with the occasional good gun. That said I’ve always had the wantsies for an LDA, shame the discontinued them a while back*.

*Which is what I was going to initially write, until I saw they’re bringing the LDA back. If they bring back the scaled down 9mm only gun with a 3” barrel, I’ll probably have one. I’m sure I’ll have to go through the damn thing with a fine-toothed comb to get it running right, but the LDA is basically a single-stack LEM with a thumb safety, gun. Except, of course, without the reliability of the HK out of the gate. That said, if it could be made to work, it’d be a frickin’ sweet appendix or deep carry gun.

taadski

11-21-2018, 10:31 PM

...but the LDA is basically a single-stack LEM with a thumb safety...

While I understand the parallel, I frankly think you're doing the LDA a disservice, from a shootability standpoint anyway, comparing it to an LEM. ;) Not that it matters much, but let's remember, it's a design that was taken to the Production national crown by Mr. Jarrett once upon a time. I'm also excited it's being reintroduced, fwiw.

Regardless, I really hope Travis' influence on the company's 1911 offerings is a positive one. Fingers crossed.

GardoneVT

11-21-2018, 10:47 PM

Five years back I bought two Para ordnance Black Ops 14.45s. At the first range trip neither pistol fired more then 5 rounds consecutively without a 3 point jam.

Two 1911 gunsmithing books and three months later I got both pistols to make it to 50 rounds before a malfunction. Then I took a major bath and traded them in when I realized one of the pistols was riding the link due to an out of spec frame.

A 14 round 1911 is a grand idea, and I look forward to the day one is released.

fatdog

11-21-2018, 11:22 PM

.... the LDA is basically a single-stack LEM with a thumb safety, gun. .

Actually, they were awful, for one important reason, trigger reset. Just over a decade ago when they first came out I was still running my highly tuned P-16 as a limited gun and had a pair of highly tuned P-18's as my open guns, so I figured P-18LDA was the most natural choice for a production gun. That P-18LDA that felt grip wise just like my open and limited guns. The mags and reloads felt just the same, etc.

The trigger reset on the LDA was the worst ever...all the way out at the end of that long stroke. I ran into trigger freeze so many times my friends were betting on which stage I would crater with a gun that would not go off while I frantically tried to make it do so. I had not learned "press and flip" at that point in time, but I did. At speed the only way to run one of those things reliably was to break contact with the trigger on every shot because not only was the reset just about the end of the return stroke, it had a weak trigger return spring.

If they fix that in the revival it would be interesting, but otherwise it was the longest reset I have ever encountered on any semi-auto pistol of any type...yuk.

farscott

11-24-2018, 12:31 PM

American Rifleman arrived today with Rem-POs. The Tactical didn't shoot where it looked and the Tomasie didn't shoot.

That article did not give me the idea that Remington's Huntsville facility is putting out a quality product.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/11/15/tested-remington-r1-1911-double-stack-pistols/

The article's author (Clapp, IIRC) went out of his way to soft shoe the issues, but the fact that they made the final copy is telling. The .40 Tomasie gun issue was attributed to too tight fitting (a la Les Baer), and the Tactical gun shot a foot high, which makes me wonder who specified the suppressor-height sights. I have had guns have POA/POI issues of inches but never more than a few inches.

At 25 yds., the Tactical grouped a foot high, which is an issue that I would like to see the manufacturer address. Usually, that demands a lower rear sight (or higher front sight).

The great sights and superb trigger made the Tomasie pistol a delight to shoot, but I had several failure-to-chamber malfunctions. I firmly believe that the extremely tight fit procedures used in building the pistol caused the slide to be slow in closing.

GardoneVT

11-24-2018, 12:59 PM

The article's author (Clapp, IIRC) went out of his way to soft shoe the issues, but the fact that they made the final copy is telling. The .40 Tomasie gun issue was attributed to too tight fitting (a la Les Baer), and the Tactical gun shot a foot high, which makes me wonder who specified the suppressor-height sights.

“I firmly believe that the extremely tight fit procedures used in building the pistol caused the slide to be slow in closing.“

My theory is it’s built like shit and runs accordingly. Here’s supporting experience, after digging up notes from my Black Ops Intro To Gunsmithing elective;

-neither pistol has properly tensioned extractors. Observed pistol #2 extractor has zero tension.
-barrel and slide edges are sharp enough to shave with. Ejection port relief cut is leaving scratches in the fired brass.
-takedown pin cannot be removed without being hammered out with a rubber mallet on both ; pistol #2 slide stop pin cannot be reinserted without being hammered back into place.
-ambi safeties look like MIM Taurus 1911 parts and feel mushy & brittle. Left side safety on Pistol 1 already showing wear at 37 rounds fired

Funny enough the guns did shoot POA-POI in the rare event they cycled properly.

Tamara

11-24-2018, 01:20 PM

Overheard at Cerber...er, Freedom Gr...er, Remington Outdoors HQ: "Maybe if we call ParaOrds by a different name, people won't notice!"

Tamara

11-24-2018, 01:23 PM

They've managed to screw up 870s and now they're going to make Para Ordnance guns good?

Yeah no.

Cerberus has the anti-Midas touch. Everything they've touched has turned to shit. Bunch of cost-cutting corporate raiders that are gonna gut a third of the domestic firearms industry in the name of good quarterly statements and then hit the silk on golden parachutes to let the plane crash in flames.

Balisong

11-24-2018, 05:05 PM

Cerberus has the anti-Midas touch. Everything they've touched has turned to shit. Bunch of cost-cutting corporate raiders that are gonna gut a third of the domestic firearms industry in the name of good quarterly statements and then hit the silk on golden parachutes to let the plane crash in flames.

Thanks for reminding me they fucked up the Masada too....

RevolverRob

11-25-2018, 11:13 AM

Actually, they were awful, for one important reason, trigger reset.

But remember man, I came from the revolver school of fast shooting, where you have to let the trigger out the full stroke and simply not try to catch the reset or you'll almost certainly short stroke the gun. FWIW, I found when I ran the LEM like a revolver it worked best for me. I'm lazy (or practical? eh you decide), I don't even work the reset on 1911s, I just let it out and go back through the press. But I'm also not chasing hundredths of a second either for the most part. I'm pretty happy with a ~2.0 draw and first shot and subsequent .21-.25 splits. If I can run a clean FAST in <6.0 and clear Dot Torture, I'm generally satisfied with my shooting ability. I'm not a GM and never will be, hell I may never be a master class shooter. Besides for me, coming from a bullseye background, precision and accuracy are more fun (and challenging for me) than speed.