For Women: Dene Adams

[Totem Polar]

A rudimentary search shows that only @HCountryGuy has mentioned this company before. For some options option that might work with a wider variety of Women's dressing habits, it might be worth a look.

I'd think a gadgeted G42 or 43 would disappear well enough with several of these get ups.

https://deneadams.com/

[peterb]

Interesting ideas, but some of those “holsters” look like soft pockets that may not offer much more safety than pocket carry. Every option is a tradeoff....

Edit: I read a bit on the website. Some are soft, but some do have Kydex inserts.

[KPD]

At least one of them looks like an evolution of the Unity Tactical Clutch.
I sent the link to my wife. I am interested in her opinion about these.

[HCountyGuy]

As noted I’ve mentioned them before. My wife uses their products with her G43 and is quite fond of their offerings. The holsters she owns don’t have a kydex insert, but what feels like cardstock which does protect the trigger from exterior manipulation.

The holsters allow my wife to dress more girly while still safely and discreetly carrying a firearm.

[GMSweet]

My wife looked at those, but ultimately decided on a "Hip Hugger" from https://www.cancanconcealment.com/ for her M&P Shield.

We have not been able to find an LGS or even not-so-LGS that carries either one.

[David S.]

The Concealed Carry Radio podcast recently had a interview with Alexo Athletica (http://alexoathletica.com). They seem to have some interesting options for the ladies.

[Clusterfrack]

It's great to see innovation in female-oriented concealment that doesn't involve off-body carry. I also like the kydex inserts and emphasis on making the trigger safe while carrying. Why did it take so long?

[HCountyGuy]

Why did it take so long?

Because male-dominated culture and continued stupid advice from behind the LGS counter. How often is the advice “just get a revolver and shove it in your purse” parroted by the “expert behind the counter”?

Sometimes we’re what stands in the way of progress.

[OnionsAndDragons]

It's great to see innovation in female-oriented concealment that doesn't involve off-body carry. I also like the kydex inserts and emphasis on making the trigger safe while carrying. Why did it take so long?

I think a big part of it is wardrobe mindset. For most men, dressing around the gun isn’t a significant hurdle. And even when it is, we tend to have a better variety of compromise options.

This facilitates a myopic block to theory of mind when it comes to women’s priorities and wardrobe variability/flexibility.

Fact most men know: almost all adult men’s trousers of any sort/style have belt loops and a belt is expected or acceptable to wear in damned near every situation outside of the gym or pool.

Fact most men don’t know (and no one really understands): the vast majority of women’s pants (which are not even a universal item in any given woman’s wardrobe) done have functional belt loops at all, or fucking pockets. That kills two of the best ways to carry a firearm right there.

[Clusterfrack]

Functional pockets? Nope. That’s why my daughter’s iPhone has fallen in the toilet multiple times.

[HCountyGuy]

Women’s clothing really seems to be far more about form than function. My wife pointed out to me how women’s jackets are far thinner than men’s, while costing way more. That’s why they steal our hoodies. And then you have pants with false pockets...the list goes on.

[Clusterfrack]

Functional pockets? Nope. That’s why my daughter’s iPhone has fallen in the toilet multiple times.

Actually, giant iPhones seem to have made wearing a bellyband acceptable. My wife uses one of these, and I can't help thinking "you could carry a gun in that".

https://smile.amazon.com/Tronic-Edge-Running-Belts-Comfortable/dp/B07DFP214X/

[OnionsAndDragons]

Women’s clothing really seems to be far more about form than function. My wife pointed out to me how women’s jackets are far thinner than men’s, while costing way more. That’s why they steal our hoodies. And then you have pants with false pockets...the list goes on.

Yep. This is a practical and philosophical barrier.

Most men I know will choose clothes primarily for function. Then the hierarchy gets parsed for fit and comfort and how it looks, ranking depending on the individual and the role of the clothing.

Fit and looks are at the top of the hierarchy for most women I know. And a vast majority of women's clothes are designed and marketed with that in mind. Corners are cut on functional aspects for many clothes because not enough women seem to care about it enough for it to be an issue.

I think there are other issues for women's carry; like a greater variance in body shapes and even more significant clothing restrictions at the ends of the bell curve there than men's clothing too.

There are a lot of small barriers that make simple solutions way less generalizable to women than men. But any solutions or workarounds for the clothing hurdle is a big step in the right direction.




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[Jakus]

My wife has been using one of the Dene Adams corset holsters for about a year now. While it doesn't put the gun in an ideal spot for easy and fast draw strokes, it is WAY better than off body carry. Getting the corset as a stand alone holster means my wife never has to think about what she is going to wear when she carries. She simply throws it on and decides if her shirt is too fitted to conceal well. If it is, change shirts, or a throw long sleeve on top. We opted for the kydex insert for her 642 and are pleased with the trigger coverage. My wife almost always opts to put a flashlight in the spare pocket.

Finally, this thing had been comfortable enough for her to wear for extended periods standing, walking, running, seated at her desk, or riding in the car. I am sure at some point the elastic will give out, but it will absolutely get replace with another when that happens.

[BillSWPA]

The other part of the problem is that there are too few women with the right background trying to address the issue. In the not too distant past, one female-owned company that made garter holsters offered a choice of flower attachment to the holster. Do I even need to begin trying to explain what is wrong with that? I am gratified to see some of the links posted above in this thread because they seem to show that this is changing.

I could find a way for my wife to carry a reasonably sized gun without making major changes to her mode of dress, and permitting fast access when needed. However, I would need her to be willing to work with me as we go through a significant trial-and-error phase, probably spending some serious $ on holsters that will prove unworkable before we find a few (one will not do, more options are needed) that work. That willingness just isn't there.

Recognizing the difficulties presented by different body shapes, differently designed clothing, and much more significant social pressures, there are advantages that can be used. A women can leave a shirt untucked when doing so would be unacceptable for a man. A woman can leave on a jacket when a man would look funny. Unless clothing is skin-tight, there are natural hollows that can be used to hide a gun. Finding a way to carry a gun will require significantly more creativity as well as trial and error, but it can be done.

Despite its obvious and significant disadvantages, off-body carry should be given serious consideration. One female participant on TPI tested some on-body solutions during a "managing unknown contacts" exercise to see if she could get the gun out in time to use it effectively. With multiple on-body solutions, she failed, and ended up losing the gun to her "attacker." However, with purse carry, she succeeded in getting the gun out in time to use it. The "attacker" was one of the subject matter experts on that forum who did an excellent job of simulating a realistic amount of pressure for a real situation. To say that a solution is better simply because it is on-body rather than off-body is wrong.

[runcible]

For those curious about what Bill's referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am0AfCR42ag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OXCJ72r_s8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf58SbaJSaw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYCROUmzZLE

There was some accompanying text when she posted them on TPI, though I'd have to dig it up and ask her permission to repost.

[BillSWPA]

For those curious about what Bill's referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am0AfCR42ag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OXCJ72r_s8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf58SbaJSaw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYCROUmzZLE

There was some accompanying text when she posted them on TPI, though I'd have to dig it up and ask her permission to repost.

Thank you for posting those videos!k They should be considered mandatory viewing material for any lady looking at carry options or for any guy trying to guide a lady in selecting carry options.


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[John Hearne]

Part of it is trying to develop something for a very small market. Tiffany Johnson has figured out safe and effective carry in a belly band but involved sewing two together and some Kydex inserts from Spencer Keepers. I'm not sure how many she'd actually sell if she brought it to market. It take some quantity of manufacture to get the prices down to where they're reasonable.

[orionz06]

Part of it is trying to develop something for a very small market. Tiffany Johnson has figured out safe and effective carry in a belly band but involved sewing two together and some Kydex inserts from Spencer Keepers. I'm not sure how many she'd actually sell if she brought it to market. It take some quantity of manufacture to get the prices down to where they're reasonable.

There are a few belly bands that accept shells that aren't cost prohibitive.

[runcible]

Tom's being very modest. https://darkstargear.com/product/attachment-shell/

At my end of things, use whatever bellyband is on-hand or available to get the idea carried into practice; but after the lifespan of the band has passed (e.g. 6-12 months for most bands used daily), I would strongly recommend looking at a replacement made of tweave vice any knit elastic. They cost more, but they will last longer. More so, most are folded in such a way that you can insert inelastic webbing between the layers, and thus restrict the top edge from tipping outwards quite so readily; were one so inclined.

https://www.first-spear.com/das-ding-tm

http://www.unitytactical.com/shop/clutch-belt/

A good kydex insert will outlast most any band it's put into, and can jump from one to the next as it outlasts each in turn; they're a good buy.