Shield size TDA besides SIG or Springfield?

[awp_101]

Been doing some looking, thinking and reading lately about leaving striker fired all together and going with TDA for my carry. I currently carry a 9mm Shield (strong side IWB, haven't figured out fat boy AIWB) and from what I've been reading here and elsewhere it looks like the 2 closest options are the P239 and maybe the XD-E but most of what I read is 1-3 years old. Have there been any significant changes in the market since 2016-ish?

I'd prefer to not give money to SIG because ethics and I have zero interest in the XD-E. I've handled a P30SK but it's just enough bigger that it doesn't seem like it would carry as well as the Shield.

Are there any other viable options for a single stack, 9mm Shield size TDA? If there's not, I'm OK sticking with the Shield or considering a used 239 but if I don't ask I don't potentially learn what I've overlooked.

Thanks!

[Duelist]

Used CS9.

[BehindBlueI's]

IMO, the P239 is not "Shield sized". It's so close to a P229 I can't really find a reason to have one. The Shield is light enough to double as a BUG for ankle, pocket, or vest carry and a primary for when concealing a larger gun is problematic. The P239 is too heavy for most BUG roles, and occupies a middle ground that isn't useful for me.

[revchuck38]

A possibility, if you’re open to a double stack, is the Walther P99C. I’m pleased with mine. It’s a striker-fired TDA with a good double action and a really good single action.

[awp_101]

Thanks! I have not yet handled any of the 3 mentioned but I did ask my friend Mr Google for some specs and this is what I've found so far:

Model--------Width----------Height

Shield - - - - .95" - - - - - - 4.6"
P30sk - - - - 1.37" - - - - - - 4.5"
P239 - - - - 1.18" - - - - - - 5.1"
CS9 - - - - - 1.31" - - - - - - 5.0"
P99c - - - - 1.1" - - - - - - 5.3"
P365 - - - - - 1.1" - - - - - - 4.3" (not mentioned but worth comparing)
G19 - - - - - 1.18" - - - - - 5" (not mentioned but I've carried one and for my body shape and carrying comfort I didn't care for it

[Vista461]

Used 3913?

[Duelist]

Thanks! I have not yet handled any of the 3 mentioned but I did ask my friend Mr Google for some specs and this is what I've found so far:

Model--------Width----------Height

Shield - - - - .95" - - - - - - 4.6"
P30sk - - - - 1.37" - - - - - - 4.5"
P239 - - - - 1.18" - - - - - - 5.1"
CS9 - - - - - 1.31" - - - - - - 5.0"
P99c - - - - 1.1" - - - - - - 5.3"
P365 - - - - - 1.1" - - - - - - 4.3" (not mentioned but worth comparing)
G19 - - - - - 1.18" - - - - - 5" (not mentioned but I've carried one and for my body shape and carrying comfort I didn't care for it

CS9 width has two fat spots: the ambi safety levers, and the thickest part of the hogue rubber. Not all CS9s are ambi, and some are DAO. The slide is 15/16ths. So if you got a DAO, and put Xenoy grips on it, you’d have a thickness almost identical to the shield. If you put a single side safety on a TDA, that would be pretty close. Or you could put up with the thickness of that one spot on a TDA and with the Xenoy grip, still have a near analogue: 7 rounds 9mm, use 8 round 3913 magazines for spare magazines.

[revchuck38]

According to Walther’s website, the P99C is 4.3” tall and 1.3” wide.

[olstyn]

According to Walther’s website, the P99C is 4.3” tall and 1.3” wide.

Yeah, 5.3" tall is the full size, so the OP found the wrong spec on that somehow. That said, when the OP said the P30SK was too big, that pretty much ruled out suggesting the P99c for me, no matter how great I think mine is, because it's only marginally smaller. (.07" narrower and .2" shorter.) The slide is less blocky, at least, so it's not the full 1.3" wide from top to bottom, but neither is it exactly a skinny gun.

[HCM]

IMO, the P239 is not "Shield sized". It's so close to a P229 I can't really find a reason to have one. The Shield is light enough to double as a BUG for ankle, pocket, or vest carry and a primary for when concealing a larger gun is problematic. The P239 is too heavy for most BUG roles, and occupies a middle ground that isn't useful for me.

I like the 239 for what it is but I agree 100%. My agency tried issuing these as BUGs and it was an abject failure.

[Bucky]

I’d love to find a 43 size TDA gun in 9mm.

[TheNewbie]

A scaled down single stack P-07 would be rather sweet.

[Polecat]

Love this concept.

Single stack USP
Single stack PX4
Singlestack P30

[MattyD380]

Smith, are you listening? People still need 3913 and CS9-sized TDAs.

But, I digress...

I mean, not 9mm... but... there is of course the rrrreal OG of DA/SA concealed carry guns: Walther PPK. Mine's very accurate and about the size of a Shield. With the right grips, it doesn't break my hand either. Sig P230/P232 is also a consideration. Makarov. All thin, small, high-quality DA/SA options--just not 9mm.

That said, the P239 is my go to carry 9mm. I haven't found anything else that has the balance of shootability and carryability. It's bigger than a Shield, yes. But it's grip is thin and short enough to make it much easier to carry than double stack options (in my opinion). As much as I love my PX4cc and 92c, I tote my P239 (or P245) much more often. Mine's an older police trade in, and it's been perfect. And while I think Smith 3rd gens are awesome guns, I will say that I shoot a P239 better than a 3913. Though I have way more trigger time with the Sig.

[Jared]

239 opinions always split between the group that doesn't like them because they are almost 229 sized and the group that loves the shootabiliy for the size of the package.

I'm in group 2. I miss my 239 sometimes. It was/is my very favorite Sig. Now, it's too big and heavy for any BUG use. No argument from me. But for a belt carried gun, the extra slimness compared to the double stack guns makes a very noticeable difference when more concealment is desired. I actually shoot a 239 better than anything else I've tried from SIG also. I do neuter the slide stop with my grip, unfortunately.

I let mine go in a fit for something else, can't remember what now. Another one may find it's way into my safe someday.

All that said....I doubt there is a huge market for a Shield sized TDA. I'd be all over a solid offering from Beretta or S&W like a fat kid on cake. I know I'm part of a tiny minority in the shooting/carrying world. For now, I'm getting my BUG sized fix with the old stand by j-frame.

[MattyD380]

239 opinions always split between the group that doesn't like them because they are almost 229 sized and the group that loves the shootabiliy for the size of the package.

I'm in group 2. I miss my 239 sometimes. It was/is my very favorite Sig. Now, it's too big and heavy for any BUG use. No argument from me. But for a belt carried gun, the extra slimness compared to the double stack guns makes a very noticeable difference when more concealment is desired. I actually shoot a 239 better than anything else I've tried from SIG also. I do neuter the slide stop with my grip, unfortunately.

I let mine go in a fit for something else, can't remember what now. Another one may find it's way into my safe someday.

All that said....I doubt there is a huge market for a Shield sized TDA. I'd be all over a solid offering from Beretta or S&W like a fat kid on cake. I know I'm part of a tiny minority in the shooting/carrying world. For now, I'm getting my BUG sized fix with the old stand by j-frame.

Yeah, I'm definitely in group 2. The thing about the P239--regardless of size/weight/capacity--it's a great shooting gun. Add the fact that it fits in your pants comfortably and inconspicuously... that's what makes it unique.

I just put some Trijicon "bright and tough" sights on mine. Really makes a nice sight picture. Bored a hole straight through the center of a silhouette last time I had it out.

[awp_101]

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions so far!

Yes, I must have written down the wrong number or transposed the height for something else on the P99c. The size would absolutely be an issue.

The 3rd Gen Smith options are definitely interesting and I’m a fan but then I’m dealing with the issues of out of production with no factory support and mags that are getting into the spendy range.

[olstyn]

Yes, I must have written down the wrong number or transposed the height for something else on the P99c. The size would absolutely be an issue.

Used to be that there was a group of people on the Walther forum lusting after the idea of a PPS with the P99/P99c AS trigger mechanism. It kinda sounds like that'd be just the thing you want. Too bad it doesn't exist.

[TheNewbie]

I would even consider the XDE if you could get it with just a decocker.


I should have paid more attention to the P239s back when you could get them at LE pricing for $635 with 3 mags and night sights.

[RevolverRob]

There is kind of a minimum threshold for TDA, 9mm, handguns and the smallest I've ever seen that ran properly is the Smith CS9 which is out of production.

So, your solutions for in production guns are: Springfield XDE, Shield, Kahr, or a Glock 43 with a Gadget for a 9mm single-stack gun.

You could go Walther PPK to get to a TDA gun in a smaller Shield size package, but of course you're giving up 9mm for .380.

If I had to choice amongst them all, I'd go Kahr or G43 w/Gadget, if I wanted to go strictly TDA (because for instance I'm running solely Beretta 92s), I would go to a Walther PPK and send it off to Cylinder and Slide for a trigger job, better sights, and then I'd feed it good ammo.

[TheNewbie]

There is kind of a minimum threshold for TDA, 9mm, handguns and the smallest I've ever seen that ran properly is the Smith CS9 which is out of production.

So, your solutions for in production guns are: Springfield XDE, Shield, Kahr, or a Glock 43 with a Gadget for a 9mm single-stack gun.

You could go Walther PPK to get to a TDA gun in a smaller Shield size package, but of course you're giving up 9mm for .380.

If I had to choice amongst them all, I'd go Kahr or G43 w/Gadget, if I wanted to go strictly TDA (because for instance I'm running solely Beretta 92s), I would go to a Walther PPK and send it off to Cylinder and Slide for a trigger job, better sights, and then I'd feed it good ammo.

Can the PPKs be made to be decocker only?

Are the .32s any more reliable than the .380s?

[John10-19]

I'm happy with my G43 plus gadget.

For a user who wanted G43 size TDA would the PX4 subcompact converted to decocker only with this kit https://www.langdontactical.com/px4-carry-lever-decocking-lever/ be the best option, in current production? I can tell the slide is wide but I haven't handled one, is it reasonably slim through the grip or is it G26 width?

[MattyD380]

Can the PPKs be made to be decocker only?

Are the .32s any more reliable than the .380s?

I don't know about decocker only. That would be nice if you could set it up that way.

I have '74 German PPK/S--.380. It's been reliable with both hollowpoints and FMJ, with some caveats:

-I had an FTF when it was loaded to 7+1. Never had an issue with a non-topped off mag. Walther Forum research seemed to suggest one shouldn't trust PPKs with a +1 loadout. I dunno.

-Every magazine--except the one that came with the gun--falls out of the gun when shooting. I think it might have something to do with the mag catch.

So, I'm not really carrying it now. If I could get the mag issue sorted out, I might. But it kinda sucks if you can't run +1. My Sig P230 has no such issues. Though I will say I shoot the Walther better. It really is an exceptional shooter--especially with Nill grips, which help redirect some of that nasty blowback recoil. I would anticipate that a lot of these quirks wouldn't be a thing with a newer production PPK. Plus, you get a drop safety with the S&W version.

I had a PP in .32... er 7.65. And learned that .32 and 7.65 are, in fact, different. The extraction groove has a different contour on the 7.65 (European) ammo. So, I noticed my PP ran PPU okay but choked on Winchester .32. Maybe that's not the case for all 7.65 Walthers, but that was my experience. I didn't mess with it much after that and sold it. The recoil was much nicer on the 7.65 though.

[idahojess]

I would even consider the XDE if you could get it with just a decocker.



The way the xde safety works, it's almost a decocker only. Down to decock, all the way up to put on safe. You've got to move it up there, otherwise, it's not on.

Mine's been fine, runs fine (probably only 500 rounds). I just haven't really warmed to it. The DA pull is really too far of a reach for my hand, so I really haven't shot it lately. Quite a bit further reach to the trigger than my j-frame. Combined with a little arthritis/inflamation in my trigger finger joint, it's sort of sat in the safe. But it's not a bad gun really.

[RevolverRob]

Can the PPKs be made to be decocker only?

Are the .32s any more reliable than the .380s?

No to decock only. No where for a return spring to be mounted without milling

I dunno which is more reliable, honestly. But the .380 PPK is the only actual PPK (short frame) gun currently in production. So that’s probably what I would do, but what I would do then is send it to C&S for reliability and customizing.

[TheNewbie]

The way the xde safety works, it's almost a decocker only. Down to decock, all the way up to put on safe. You've got to move it up there, otherwise, it's not on.

Mine's been fine, runs fine (probably only 500 rounds). I just haven't really warmed to it. The DA pull is really too far of a reach for my hand, so I really haven't shot it lately. Quite a bit further reach to the trigger than my j-frame. Combined with a little arthritis/inflamation in my trigger finger joint, it's sort of sat in the safe. But it's not a bad gun really.

True, but if I was carrying TDA guns, I would want them to all be set up as similar as possible. So if I had a P-07, I would want my XD-E to be sans safety.

Of course the XDE could make a nice companion to USP V1.

[awp_101]

I'm happy with my G43 plus gadget.

For a user who wanted G43 size TDA would the PX4 subcompact converted to decocker only with this kit https://www.langdontactical.com/px4-carry-lever-decocking-lever/ be the best option, in current production? I can tell the slide is wide but I haven't handled one, is it reasonably slim through the grip or is it G26 width?

That’s a good question. I’ve handled (but not shot) a PX4 compact but it just didn’t grab me. I haven’t held the subcompact so I don’t know if that magical connection might be there or not.

[HCM]

Can the PPKs be made to be decocker only?

Are the .32s any more reliable than the .380s?

Let’s be honest. PPKs are shitty over fated guns and unless you have the small creepy carnival worker hands the slide will cut you.

[Bucky]

For a user who wanted G43 size TDA would the PX4 subcompact converted to decocker only with this kit https://www.langdontactical.com/px4-carry-lever-decocking-lever/ be the best option, in current production? I can tell the slide is wide but I haven't handled one, is it reasonably slim through the grip or is it G26 width?

That’s such a chunky gun, hard to put it in the same category as a G43.

[JAD]

Let’s be honest. PPKs are shitty over fated guns and unless you have the small creepy carnival worker hands the slide will cut you.
And if you have tiny girl hands the rest of the gun will cut you. It was not fun.

[CraigS]

Have you looked into an Apex Duty/Carry kit for your Shield? I have one in my M&P9c-1.0 and really like it. In my case the pre-travel is heavier than originally and the final pull is about 6.5#. I would also rather have a TDA carry pistol but the 9c is w/ the kit works fine and I am comfortable w/ it which was not the case originally.
https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/191855

[awp_101]

Have you looked into an Apex Duty/Carry kit for your Shield?
Yep, and it's what got me to stick with the Shield for as long as I have because I abhor the S&W hinged trigger. Love the M&P and Shield ergos but hate the stock triggers. Since a TDA that size appears to be something of a unicorn for the time being, I'm OK sticking with it until the Goldilocks TDA comes along.

There's a marketing opportunity and campaign in there somewhere...

[Duelist]

Can the PPKs be made to be decocker only?

Are the .32s any more reliable than the .380s?

Iirc, a PPK is not drop-safe unless the safety is engaged.

[Screwball]

Iirc, a PPK is not drop-safe unless the safety is engaged.

From what I’ve looked into, came to the same view.

I always wanted a PP or PPK (part of why I got my C&R license), but not something I’d carry.

[LSP552]

Let’s be honest. PPKs are shitty over fated guns and unless you have the small creepy carnival worker hands the slide will cut you.

PPs and PPKs were pretty popular off duty and U/C guns with LSP back in the 80s-90s. And they generally sucked across the board. Slide bite, and pretty much non-reliable with anything except ball. I’ve seen so many malfunction on the range that I would never carry one, even with ball. Triggers were usually horrible also. The SIG P230 was a huge leap ahead for that timeframe.

[RevolverRob]

Let’s be honest. PPKs are shitty over fated guns and unless you have the small creepy carnival worker hands the slide will cut you.


PPs and PPKs were pretty popular off duty and U/C guns with LSP back in the 80s-90s. And they generally sucked across the board. Slide bite, and pretty much non-reliable with anything except ball. I’ve seen so many malfunction on the range that I would never carry one, even with ball. Triggers were usually horrible also. The SIG P230 was a huge leap ahead for that timeframe.

Gents, gents - Totally agree, that's why the gun has to go to Cylinder and Slide...the one below is for sale at C&S for just ~2600 bucks. :eek: (it takes a lot of cash and time to make a PPK/PP/PPK/s not garbage).

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[MGW]

A P2000sk or P30sk is slightly thicker than a Shield but with a good holster would carry vary nicely strong side. The only catch would be both pistols have terrible DA triggers. LEM would be the way to go with them.

[Kanye Wyoming]

I would even consider the XDE if you could get it with just a decocker.


I should have paid more attention to the P239s back when you could get them at LE pricing for $635 with 3 mags and night sights.
239 Scorpion with night sights and SRT for $639.

According to their FB page, as of Friday River City Firearms had one left.
https://www.facebook.com/RiverCityFirearmsKY/

[Nick1946]

Have you checked out the CZ Rami?

[Evil_Ed]

Mauser HSc?

It also has a very positive safety...it moves the firing pin completely out of the way. It can be carried condition 1 if you choose with the safety on, or decocked with the safety off (or on if you want). Not sure if it has a drop safety though, beyond activating the manual safety.

You can find later examples in .380 though the purist in me would argue that the 7.65 version is the proper way to go...

[HCM]

Gents, gents - Totally agree, that's why the gun has to go to Cylinder and Slide...the one below is for sale at C&S for just ~2600 bucks. :eek: (it takes a lot of cash and time to make a PPK/PP/PPK/s not garbage).

32460

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I had. c&S tuned PPK about 20 years ago. It had a beavertail welded on, trigger and reliability jobs etc. - it still sucked.

[Navin Johnson]

3914 DAO NIB are available.....kina spendy...... with unsure factory support.

S&W should/could/may bring a M&P type line to market that is TDA. Wouldn't be a surprise with all the AIWB love and interest in a reliable and durable TDA pistol with a decent trigger.

Undoubtedly a small double action would be a bit bigger than a striker gun however the 3914 I recently fingered was quite compact.

Had a 3913 and p239 in the past....key word had....3913 much preferred. I new S&W was moving on...so did I.

PPK is cool to look at but for real use......are you serious?

[psalms144.1]

I'm seeing a lot of comments about how company "x" should "just" make a hammer fired version of striker pistol "y." This reminds me of how my skin crawls when my wife says we should "just" do this or that "minor" home improvement project - all of which take 5 times longer and cost 10 times what we initially planned.

Think about the typical striker pistol - all the "working parts" are either in the slide or the top 1/2" or so of the frame. Now consider the typical TDA pistol,which required room in the frame for the hammer pivot, strut, mainspring, and sear (among other things). We're not talking about a minor event redesigning a Shield into a hammer fired Shield - if it's even possible...

Then think about the demand for such a creature. The last four major federal procurements for pistols MANDATED striker fired pistols. I'm not aware of any major LE agency or .mil group that's asking for a hammer fired version of whatever. On PF, we're VERY atypical of the "average" gun owner...

[KG]

Undoubtedly a small double action would be a bit bigger than a striker gun however the 3914 I recently fingered was quite compact.

With the exception of pocket carry, the 3913/3914 conceals as well as a Shield for me. I really wish S&W still produced it. As others have said in other threads, the PX4 conceals like a smaller pistol and shoots like a larger one. The sloped rear slide, rotating barrel, etc all contribute to that. A PX4 with spurless hammer and the new carry decocker might be the best choice right now for smallish TDA. It wasn’t appealing to me until I shot it and carried it.

324873248632488

[Chuck Whitlock]

I'm seeing a lot of comments about how company "x" should "just" make a hammer fired version of striker pistol "y." This reminds me of how my skin crawls when my wife says we should "just" do this or that "minor" home improvement project - all of which take 5 times longer and cost 10 times what we initially planned.

Think about the typical striker pistol - all the "working parts" are either in the slide or the top 1/2" or so of the frame. Now consider the typical TDA pistol,which required room in the frame for the hammer pivot, strut, mainspring, and sear (among other things). We're not talking about a minor event redesigning a Shield into a hammer fired Shield - if it's even possible...


Not a TDA, but the Sig P250 does hammer-fired DAO without all that.

[psalms144.1]

Yes, but the P250 is unique in that it puts all the working parts into the FCU, which is contained in the top of the grip, so no need for a hammer strut, in-grip mainspring, etc. I would guess the P290 would be similar, but I'm not familiar enough with its design to speak intelligently on it...

[Johnny Bravo]

What about the Sphinx subcompact?

I have an SDP Compact and it is a great gun.

[GardoneVT]

Gents, gents - Totally agree, that's why the gun has to go to Cylinder and Slide...the one below is for sale at C&S for just ~2600 bucks. :eek: (it takes a lot of cash and time to make a PPK/PP/PPK/s not garbage).

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Behold, the legendary polished turd.

[jnc36rcpd]

It is rare for an agency to select a DA/SA pistol in today's world. The Franklin County (OH) recently transitioned to 9mm 226R's for uniform and 239's for detectives (along with M400 rifles). At least one article referred to them bucking the trend. It will be interesting to see if SigSauer ramps up the 239 for commercial sales.

I confess I do like seeing Franklin deputies deploying the 226on "Live PD". I'm not sure if it is the best choice in 2018, but I carried one flavor or another of the 226 throughout most of my career.

[RevolverRob]

What about the Sphinx subcompact?

I have an SDP Compact and it is a great gun.

That is closer to G19 sized, it’s a fairly big gun.

In double stack land - the PX4 Sub Compact and the CZ Rami.

[willie]

Behold, the legendary polished turd.

I guess I was fortunate the 5 or 6 that I owned all worked. I did have one .32 acp that preferred a certain ammo brand over another. There was a difference in depth of extractor grooves. My gunsmith claims that problems with these guns can be traced to extractor tension. Other than having been extensively engraved or studded with diamonds or rubies, there is not "room" for $ 2600 worth of work to be done on one.

[BehindBlueI's]

It is rare for an agency to select a DA/SA pistol in today's world. The Franklin County (OH) recently transitioned to 9mm 226R's for uniform and 239's for detectives (along with M400 rifles). At least one article referred to them bucking the trend. It will be interesting to see if SigSauer ramps up the 239 for commercial sales.

I confess I do like seeing Franklin deputies deploying the 226on "Live PD". I'm not sure if it is the best choice in 2018, but I carried one flavor or another of the 226 throughout most of my career.

Indiana State Police carries the Sig P227 as a duty gun. I think everyone else with more officers then you can count on your fingers issues Glocks around here.

[MattyD380]

Indiana State Police carries the Sig P227 as a duty gun. I think everyone else with more officers then you can count on your fingers issues Glocks around here.

Covington KY PD still carries classic Sigs. I've seen P226s in holsters. I think they're .40.

My P239 was actually a Cov PD Officer's off-duty gun. Got it for a sweet deal at my LGS.

[jnc36rcpd]

Proving once again that I should think before I post, you're right. I think the Pennsylvania State Police also issue the SIG 227. I believe the Rhode Island State Police also issue SIG pistols, albeit the 226DAK in 357SIG.

That said, agency issue DA/SA pistols is rare in today's world. Nonetheless, I was always comfortable with the DA/SA SIG pistols I carried on duty, off duty, and as back up over the years and was much more confident with them than the striker-fired FNS issued my last few years.

[ChaseN]

This comes up in my mind every now and then too. A single stack DA belt pistol for when I don't feel like shoving my P30SK down my pants. DA is a must for me when carrying AIWB (which is the only way I'll carry nowadays). I keep circling around (mentally) to the P290RS. Discontinued, but only recently so and there seems to be a small aftermarket for them still. Problem is I've never held or shot one and I can't find a range around here that has a rental.

Stepping down to .380, the P232 and Beretta 84 line seem serviceable but are much longer discontinued and I have the same issues getting my hands on one to evaluate. Not to mention the manual of arms is out in left field compared to my P30.

Maybe when I hit the mega millions jackpot I'll fund the R&D for H&K to make a single stack LEM pistol. :rolleyes:

[BehindBlueI's]

Proving once again that I should think before I post, you're right. I think the Pennsylvania State Police also issue the SIG 227. I believe the Rhode Island State Police also issue SIG pistols, albeit the 226DAK in 357SIG.

That said, agency issue DA/SA pistols is rare in today's world.

Oh, I was agreeing with you. There are exceptions, but they are definitely the exception to the Glock rule. My understanding is that ISP got cranky with Glock over issues with a batch of Glock 21s, Sig swooped in and out Glock'd Glock at the Glock game. "We'll buy your old junk guns, give you new duty leather, and you'll have the hot new-ness at a low low price!"

[Duelist]

This comes up in my mind every now and then too. A single stack DA belt pistol for when I don't feel like shoving my P30SK down my pants. DA is a must for me when carrying AIWB (which is the only way I'll carry nowadays). I keep circling around (mentally) to the P290RS. Discontinued, but only recently so and there seems to be a small aftermarket for them still. Problem is I've never held or shot one and I can't find a range around here that has a rental.

Stepping down to .380, the P232 and Beretta 84 line seem serviceable but are much longer discontinued and I have the same issues getting my hands on one to evaluate. Not to mention the manual of arms is out in left field compared to my P30.

Maybe when I hit the mega millions jackpot I'll fund the R&D for H&K to make a single stack LEM pistol. :rolleyes:

If you do decide to pick up a P290, I've got an IWB and MIC holster you can have.

[awp_101]

Being at work my search options and accessibility are extremely limited (yet I can get on here, go figure). Is the 290 bigger than a 938? Maybe between the 938 and Shield? Or between the 365 and Shield? I can't tell based on pics alone and can't find specs I can get to right now.

Since SIG keeps coming up, I know where a 9mm 250 is but it's the full size. My limited understanding is it's modular like the 320 but I think the smallest size available is G19 size, is this right?

The Beretta 84 is interesting because I'm experimenting with compact and full size 92s for non-carry but chunky and spendy. I know where a clean, used one is but it's less than $100 cheaper than my brand new M9A1. That's just crazy talk for a .380 IMO. And it's close to the size of a RAMI. A .380 RAMI.

I've done the RAMI thing. Stuck with it for about 8 months and it felt like I had a brick hanging on my pants. The P-07 felt like a G19. A single stack P-07 the size of the RAMI could be legendary...

I like the PP/PPK from a historical standpoint but I have no desire for one beyond that. Besides, my wife would look at me funnier than she already does because I'm sure I'd start speaking with a Scottish accent.

If this sounds like nitpicking it isn't, I'm just evaluating the options compared to what I've already got. If the Shield was TDA or there was a Gadget (wink, wink, nudge, nudge but there's not and I think I've read why in the past) I wouldn't even be going down this rabbit hole.

I'm almost wondering if I might as well go rent a G43 to see if my hands play well with it (they don't with any other Glock), throw in a Gadget and call it a day....

[daved20319]

Not single stack, but as someone said, have you looked at the CZ RAMI. 1.25 wide, 4.7 tall, 6.5 OAL, available with safety or decocker. No personal experience with this particular model, but my 3 other CZ's are pretty awesome, and I'm planning on at least one or two more :cool:. Later.

Dave

[Clusterfrack]

I'm almost wondering if I might as well go rent a G43 to see if my hands play well with it (they don't with any other Glock), throw in a Gadget and call it a day....

^^^This.

[willie]

I have the 9 and 45 Shields, both with safeties, which gives me confidence that I'm less likely to blow off my most prized possession. In my hand the safeties are easily moved to the off position, the direction that interests me more. Decades of safety use has hardwired my brain to flip them off and on as needed. My Shields shoot where they are aimed and have been trouble free.

[TheNewbie]

Not single stack, but as someone said, have you looked at the CZ RAMI. 1.25 wide, 4.7 tall, 6.5 OAL, available with safety or decocker. No personal experience with this particular model, but my 3 other CZ's are pretty awesome, and I'm planning on at least one or two more :cool:. Later.

Dave



Are the RAMIs reliable? I believe early on they had some issues , but last time I was looking at them was almost 10 years ago.

[ChaseN]

Does the PPS (M1 or M2) cocking indicator prevent the striker from releasing if covered by your thumb while pulling the trigger?

[TheNewbie]

Does the PPS (M1 or M2) cocking indicator prevent the striker from releasing if covered by your thumb while pulling the trigger?

Yes but not as well as a hammer or gadget. You have to be more deliberate and precise using it.

[Irelander]

I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately since I am moving away from striker fired guns for the time being and I'd like a TDA replacement for my PPS M1. I really think the XDe is the only "viable" option. I however, do not like the safety/decocker combo. If it was a decocker only, I might pick one up and give it a go although I'm not a big fan of Springfield polymer pistols.

[awp_101]

Not single stack, but as someone said, have you looked at the CZ RAMI. 1.25 wide, 4.7 tall, 6.5 OAL, available with safety or decocker. No personal experience with this particular model, but my 3 other CZ's are pretty awesome, and I'm planning on at least one or two more :cool:. Later.

Dave


I've done the RAMI thing. Stuck with it for about 8 months and it felt like I had a brick hanging on my pants.



Are the RAMIs reliable? I believe early on they had some issues , but last time I was looking at them was almost 10 years ago.
Mine was for the ~500 rounds I put through it. 2017 production.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Since SIG keeps coming up, I know where a 9mm 250 is but it's the full size. My limited understanding is it's modular like the 320 but I think the smallest size available is G19 size, is this right?

There is a SC version... ~12 rounds, 3.5"-ish barrel/slide.

[Balisong]

There is a SC version... ~12 rounds, 3.5"-ish barrel/slide.

Yep my gf has one, as well as the full size exchange kit for it. She doesn't care for it though.

[awp_101]

I'm happy with my G43 plus gadget.

For a user who wanted G43 size TDA would the PX4 subcompact converted to decocker only with this kit https://www.langdontactical.com/px4-carry-lever-decocking-lever/ be the best option, in current production? I can tell the slide is wide but I haven't handled one, is it reasonably slim through the grip or is it G26 width?

After handling (but not shooting) a PX4 subcompact last weekend, this is a very interesting question. It's certainly a chunky beast but G26 with a hammer seems to be a fair description from my limited handling. A G26 with a hammer that fits my hand better than a G26...

[TheNewbie]

After handling (but not shooting) a PX4 subcompact last weekend, this is a very interesting question. It's certainly a chunky beast but G26 with a hammer seems to be a fair description from my limited handling. A G26 with a hammer that fits my hand better than a G26...


Is it a little bigger / fatter than the G26?

[awp_101]

Is it a little bigger / fatter than the G26?

According to THIS (http://www.handgunhero.com/compare/glock-g26-gen4-vs-beretta-px4-storm-subcompact), the OAL of the PX4 is just over .25" shorter but it's about .6" taller and .25" wider. If I can, I'll try to get back and look at it again this weekend.

[Cory]

Many who favor DA/SA pistols tansition to small DA revolvers when they need to go compact or sub compact. You get the small package you're looking for, and the DA "decision" trigger, and (depending on model) a hammer to thumb on reholster. You loose capacity, SA follow ups, and fast reloads. You are already losing some capacity with subcompact autos, revolvers dont cut this by much. DA follow ups arent as fast, but are definetly possible. I'm not aware of any civilian shootings where a reload was performed.

You lose some things, but really gain size and reliability. Might not be right for you, but could be worth some thought.

-Cory

[awp_101]

Yep, a 442 with 1 loader is always in the mix depending on dress, etc.