EOTech reticle question, -0 vs -2 (both with magnifier), for use on M1A

[Tyrok]

Hello everyone! I have been doing a lot of reading here and on other sites and am trying to decide on an red-dot optic for my M1A (early Scout model, I think Springfield called it the Brush gun, or Bush gun or something like that :p).

Normally I'd just default to the "throw an Aimpoint on it and be done" line of thinking but for this rifle I will be putting a magnifier behind whatever red dot I choose, and the EOTech reticle seems to offer a lot of functionality for ranging and plays well with magnifiers from what I read. The '-0' models have the well known center dot and outside ring reticle, my questions are on the '-2' models which have two center dots to use for holdovers at extended range.

So, I was wondering if anyone has used a -2 model and what their experience/opinion is?

- Are the two center dots too busy of a sight picture when unmagnified? Do they just look like a red streak?

- How clear do they look when magnified? Can you actually distinguish between them or do they look like a red streak?

- Do you prefer the -0 model?

- Lastly, is there an optic that I am missing that I should consider? I know Holosun makes one that has the footprint of a T1 but the reticle of the EOTech (albeit with a single center dot like the -0), are these decent optics? They're certainly tempting price and weight wise versus the EOTech.

My home defense firearms is my Glock, but this rifle would be my main defensive longarm if needed. The optics will be mounted on a Bassett mount right above the action, if that helps with anyone's optic assessment.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for the help everyone! :D

[JRB]

Hello everyone! I have been doing a lot of reading here and on other sites and am trying to decide on an red-dot optic for my M1A (early Scout model, I think Springfield called it the Brush gun, or Bush gun or something like that :p).

Normally I'd just default to the "throw an Aimpoint on it and be done" line of thinking but for this rifle I will be putting a magnifier behind whatever red dot I choose, and the EOTech reticle seems to offer a lot of functionality for ranging and plays well with magnifiers from what I read. The '-0' models have the well known center dot and outside ring reticle, my questions are on the '-2' models which have two center dots to use for holdovers at extended range.

So, I was wondering if anyone has used a -2 model and what their experience/opinion is?

- Are the two center dots too busy of a sight picture when unmagnified? Do they just look like a red streak?

- How clear do they look when magnified? Can you actually distinguish between them or do they look like a red streak?

- Do you prefer the -0 model?

- Lastly, is there an optic that I am missing that I should consider? I know Holosun makes one that has the footprint of a T1 but the reticle of the EOTech (albeit with a single center dot like the -0), are these decent optics? They're certainly tempting price and weight wise versus the EOTech.

My home defense firearms is my Glock, but this rifle would be my main defensive longarm if needed. The optics will be mounted on a Bassett mount right above the action, if that helps with anyone's optic assessment.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for the help everyone! :D


Personally, EOtechs are fast and very easy for me to shoot at closer range and I definitely like them for that purpose. I dislike them on a dedicated defensive gun because of the battery life issues.
But the EOTech/G33 combo got dated quickly with the rollout of modern LPV scopes. There are a variety of vetted 1-6x and 1-8x options with good reticle designs that would be comparable in price to an EOTech/G33 combo.

Being an M1A, if it had to be a red dot I'd run an Aimpoint because of battery life and CMOH recipient SFC Randy Shughart (RIP) of Black Hawk Down fame.

[Tyrok]

Personally, EOtechs are fast and very easy for me to shoot at closer range and I definitely like them for that purpose. I dislike them on a dedicated defensive gun because of the battery life issues.
But the EOTech/G33 combo got dated quickly with the rollout of modern LPV scopes. There are a variety of vetted 1-6x and 1-8x options with good reticle designs that would be comparable in price to an EOTech/G33 combo.

Being an M1A, if it had to be a red dot I'd run an Aimpoint because of battery life and CMOH recipient SFC Randy Shughart (RIP) of Black Hawk Down fame.

What a great movie, and a courageous American. It's basically impossible to beat Aimpoint for durability and battery life, that I cannot deny.

That's a good point on modern LPVO's they seem like an extremely versatile option. Looks like Vortex makes some well regarded models (specifically the Razor), and so does Trijicon. Do you have a favorite?

And thanks for the comment!

[HCM]

I’ve had an M1A scout with an Aimpoint Comp M since the late 1990’s. Even with the lowest Aimpoint Mount this requires a raised cheek rest or a VLTOR stock.

I keep it out of nostalgia. The AR -10, SCAR, G-3 and FAL are all more practical and better performing choices. With that out of the way...

The difference between the bush rifle and the scout is the the scout’s short picatinny / 1913 rail forward of the action.

The Ultimak is actually a better option for forward rail as it gives additional 1913 rail for lights or sling mounts.

The M1A was not designed with optics in mind and it shows. Your options are a forward rail or a “bridge” type mount over the action.

The EoTech and a magnifier is not really a practical choice for an M1A. They are designed around “AR” height and sit too high to be practical.

The second issue is placement The EO tech could run on a forward rail mount but the magnifier needs to be back over the action near your eye. This will also create weight issues.

My agency issued EO Techs for over 10 years. They were neither durable nor reliable. Their magnifier is much better than their RDS. If you must have one the -0 is preferable. The -2 defeats the purpose of having an RDS.

If you want a magnified optic there are two options:

A 1-4 or 1-6 Low power variable optic (LPVO) like a Steiner PXi4, the Trijicon accupoint 1-4, vortex PST II 1-6, vortex razor II 1-6 etc mounted over the action

A Leupold scout scope with firedot illumination mounted on a forward rail there is a 2-7x variable version with a Firedot but it may be an SWFA exclusive.

If you don’t really need the magnification and want an RDS with a circle dot reticle I’ve had good results with the SIG Romeo 4M (since replaced with the 4T) and the Holosun “military model”.

The SIG and Holosun are the size of the Aimpoint Micro optics and fit all Aimpoint Micro mounts. In addition to the lighter weight and lower mount capability, I prefer the circle dot reticle in these optics over that of the EoTech. The Holosun/SIG version makes te center dot brighter than the surrounding circle. In bright sunlight, when the EoTech is at high brightness the ring of the EO reticle can wash out the 1 MOA dot. The Holosun / SIG version avoids this issue.

Note just like other optics there are different grades of SIG and Holosun RDS. The Holosun HS515CM and the sig Romeo 4 optics are higher quality and clarity than the $99 models.

[MistWolf]

I got the chance to try a two dot EOTech. I like the reticle. I wish Aimpoint would offer a two dot Micro. Makes hold overs much easier.

[Tyrok]

snip

Do you believe that the Military model Holosun HS515CM is more durable than say an EOTech EXPS? I really like the idea of a T2 footprint with the EOTech reticle. Throw it on the lowest mount Scalarworks offers... Now we're talking. :cool:

Sounds like I'm going to have to give the LPVO's another look. It was my impression that although their illumination was helpful, but none of them are as bright as a red-dot. Is this generalization true? Or does the firedot match the average red-dot for brightness?

Thanks for the detailed post, I appreciate all the points you brought up and I read over it multiple times already :D.

[Tyrok]

I got the chance to try a two dot EOTech. I like the reticle. I wish Aimpoint would offer a two dot Micro. Makes hold overs much easier.

Was this with or without a magnifier behind it? The dots were easy to distinguish for you?

Thanks for the comment!

[HCM]

Do you believe that the Military model Holosun HS515CM is more durable than say an EOTech EXPS? I really like the idea of a T2 footprint with the EOTech reticle. Throw it on the lowest mount Scalarworks offers... Now we're talking. :cool:

Sounds like I'm going to have to give the LPVO's another look. It was my impression that although their illumination was helpful, but none of them are as bright as a red-dot. Is this generalization true? Or does the firedot match the average red-dot for brightness?

Thanks for the detailed post, I appreciate all the points you brought up and I read over it multiple times already :D.

Some LPVO are daylight bright and some are not.

The the things you pay for on higher quality LPVO are true 1x or close to it on the low end and daylight bright illumination.

The firedot is daylight bright but you need to get up to aVX5 or VX6 to get true 1x in a Leupold.

The Steiner PX4i 1-4 is daylight bright with great glass at a great price.

The Vortex PST II 1-6 and Razor II 1-6 are also both daylight bright and very useable on 1x.

Another good choice in my experience is the bushnell elite 1-6.5x

The Holosun appears to be a copy of the SIG Romeo 4M in a different housing. Ive has good luck with my 515 and two of the 4M’s.

The 4M replaced the Aimpoint H2 as the issues carbine optics for the FBI after extensive testing. Not saying it’s better than the H2, but it is certainly “good enough.” The only issues I’m aware of with the 4M after two years of service is a few issues with the SIG mount. Since they fit any AP micro mount it is an easy fix.

[MistWolf]

Was this with or without a magnifier behind it? The dots were easy to distinguish for you?

Thanks for the comment!

Without magnifier. The two dots were readily distinguishable from each other.

[jellydonut]

If you decide to run an LPVO, get this mount. (http://www.m14.ca/)

edit - I may have missed the part where you already have a mount. :rolleyes:

[HCM]

If you decide to run an LPVO, get this mount. (http://www.m14.ca/)

edit - I may have missed the part where you already have a mount. :rolleyes:


The most interesting thing on that page is their MAGPUL moss berg SGA stock adaptor. The cheek risers for the SGA would work well to address the cheekwwld issues with optics on M14’s.

32298

http://www.m14.ca/M14_M1A_Magpul_MBSA_Buttstock_Adapter.html

[Tyrok]

If you decide to run an LPVO, get this mount. (http://www.m14.ca/)

edit - I may have missed the part where you already have a mount. :rolleyes:

No sir you didn't miss anything. My post wasn't clear. I was planning on getting a Bassett low mount but I haven't bought anything (haven't bought any optics either, just been rolling irons for the time being).

Thank you for the link I'll check it out!

[Tyrok]

Snip

Wow that is bad ass! :cool:

[jellydonut]

No sir you didn't miss anything. My post wasn't clear. I was planning on getting a Bassett low mount but I haven't bought anything (haven't bought any optics either, just been rolling irons for the time being).

Thank you for the link I'll check it out!

Alright, if you didn't buy a mount already I recommend you read the documentation this fella posts on his mount pages, and you could even email him and ask him to give you the rundown.

I was buying the Garand mount, not the M14 mount, so there weren't many other choices. For the M14 style rifle he claims this type of mount has advantages vs. the side mount. I recommend reading up on it before buying either!