10-Round 9mm Pistol

[okie john]

After the last election, I believe that it’s a matter of when—not if—Washington state adopts a 10-round magazine limit, and I’m looking at the next gear evolution. Moving van aside, what are my options?

I’ve been a Glock guy since 2010, and I have hundreds of dollars worth of tools, mags, parts, holsters, etc. on hand. I carry a G19 with G17 spare mags, but I don't trust 10-round OEM G17 and G19 mags. I’ve spent significant time on the G26, but mags hang up on my hand instead of dropping free of the gun and I want to run a WML, so it’s out. Doc’s G19/G26 surgery (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?23204-A-solution-for-illogical-10-rd-mag-limits) would let me use a reliable, widely available 10-round OEM Glock magazine that drops free on reloads AND have a light. I've cut G17s to take G19 mags before and can do this work myself, but I'd rather avoid this if I can.
http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u398/gkrdds/Cut%20G19.jpg

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u398/gkrdds/G26L%20w_G19%20mag.jpg

My current thinking is that the best case scenario would be for Glock to unfuck the OEM 10-round mag situation.

Next best would be to find reliable 10-round aftermarket 9mm G19 and G17 magazines. Is anything like that available yet?

Next best case is to switch from Glock to a brand with reliable 10-round magazines. I’d like to stay with a striker, but would consider SAO or DAO. Not super interested in TDA just yet.

HK looks promising, especially the VP9sk. CZ is out due to safety/decocker ergos. DAO Beretta might work.

What am I missing?

Thanks,


Okie John

[Evil_Ed]

P99 with a P99c? Gives you striker and/or TDA if you want, all in one...I've not heard of anyone complaining about magazine reliability with them, and it gives you the same 19/26 size guns (roughly)

Or, PPQ, if you don't want to risk accidentally liking the P99 DA mode :o

[Wayne Dobbs]

HK VP9SK or P2000SK are stellar with their 10 round magazines in my experience and I think their 10 round magazines for the standard size HKs work very well also.

[Irelander]

I came from Glock and am really digging the HK LEM trigger. No fussing with safeties and decockers. A nice light and steady trigger pull with a great reset. I'd give the P2000SK a good look.

[GJM]

Gen 5 Glock 19 chopped to take 26 magazines is my ten round solution. It works with the ten round lower, 19 lower, and G45 lower. I can pick laser, optic, WML, or plain iron sights as I wish. I can also pick 10, 12, 15, or 17 round mags as conditions change.

[Mark D]

I live in a state with 10-round mag limits.

the HK P2000 works well with factory 10-round mags. I have about 6000 rounds through mine without a single stoppage.


The Magpul 10-round mags for G19's have worked well for me. I've used them with a variety of FMJ & 147gr HSTs without any issues. I've only put about 1000 rounds through the Magpuls so far, but haven't had any problems. However, some folks hereabouts have indicated the Magpul magazines are not ready for primetime. I can't recall the specifics.

I am going to try Wolff extra-powered springs in my OEM Glock 10 round mags to see if that makes a difference.

Good luck.

[CCT125US]

Personally I would choose the P2000sk v2 (LEM), if presented with only 10 rds. However it sounds like you're firmly on the Glock train, and it is silly to argue with DocGKR and GJM.

[GJM]

I think the most sensible choice is a ten round variant of whatever you are carrying as your full size pistol, so training familiarity carries over to the ten round choice.

[45dotACP]

What am I missing?


Okie John

A 1911 (snerk)

I jest sir. However, cutting your gun for 26 mags might not be a bad idea "if" such a thing comes to pass. I recommended fighting any and all dumbass legislation. So far Illinois isn't down yet, primarily due to an extremely involved ISRA and a ton of support for gun rights from the rural and suburban areas and even some rural Democrats.

But to your point. I would go for the VP9 in a heartbeat, although my current infatuation is the M&P. Currently my 10 round mag I purchased for it works decently although it won't drop free when empty unless the gun has been fired a few times. Plus the Apex barrel makes it far more accurate than a Glock and probably a shade more accurate than a VP9.

Of course, a well built 9mm 1911 is hands down one of the most accurate semi auto pistols out there and some guys can make them work well.

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[theJanitor]

Just last night, I got my sights settled on a target. Carry size, 9mm, 1911. Now to pull the trigger....

[Larry Sellers]

I've had good luck with the Glock 10 round magazines and adding the #3 follower to them. Specifically with gen 5 magazines. I've run 147 hsts through them without issue. I know others have said they do not run and I'm not discrediting them. CT allows "registered high caps prior to 4-2013 to be loaded to 10 and carried that way. It's my solution for the time being. I'm trying at all costs to avoid a platform switch.

Following with interest.

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ETA this is with a Glock 19. My other option if it comes to it is learning to shoot a 26 well....

Edit again....I believe PensFan has had good luck with a similar fix.

[Galbraith]

I think at some point we all have years, if not decades of training on one platform, have armorer's courses, and tons of spare parts saved for Armageddon. Then something changes, and we switch to something else that meets our dynamic needs. I've done such a switch 4 times in the last 20 years as my situation has changed. Be careful not to let nostalgia, or superficial attachment effect what could potentially be the best tool for your current or future needs. Sometimes it takes kicking and screaming to try out a different platform that you previously thumbed your nose at based on interweb 3rd party reputation, only to find out you actually like the gun better.

[spinmove_]

Pragmatic Suggestion? Glock surgery to take G26 mags. The Magpul 10-rounders are probably the most reliable, but some of the reported wonkiness gives me a little pause. I’ve never personally had issues with the two that I’ve put close to 3 cases worth of ammo through.

Backup Suggestion? CZ P-10c. Why? Reliable 10 round magazines that will fit in the newly release P-10F and P-10S as well as the P-10C. Want to get TDA curious? Easy switch to P-07/P-09 as they take the exact same magazines. They’re all priced reasonably well to boot.


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[LSP552]

It seems that everyone but Glock makes 10 rd mags for all size guns that work. I’m in a similar boat with RI’s re-election of a liberal Dem Gov who has publicly said she will push for more gun control, including a high capacity mag ban.

I’m back to shooting and carrying mostly Berettas now, and the 10 mags run in my 92C and 92BT. My next purchase is a PX4CC. My SIGs have run 10 rd mags without issue also. Since I commute to a ban State (MA) for work daily, and am also in CT often, reliable 10 rd mags were important to me. I’ve carried a G26 a good bit but don’t shoot it near as well as the larger versions.

It “seems” that only Glock has this problem. I’d imagine that anything else you selected (other than a 9mm 1911) will be a non-issue.

[TC215]

Just last night, I got my sights settled on a target. Carry size, 9mm, 1911. Now to pull the trigger....

A couple years ago I had Dan Wesson build me a CCO in 9mm. It was probably the perfect carry gun, never should have sold it.

[STI]

I've had good luck with the Glock 10 round magazines and adding the #3 follower to them. Specifically with gen 5 magazines.

I believe PensFan has had good luck with a similar fix.

Do either of you know the Glock part number?

[Evil_Ed]

Hrm, it might be a silly question, but are you married to 9mm?

If you're heading towards a magazine ban, I'd probably consider switching that has a built in capacity handicap because...why not? 9mm's big draw is you get much bullets, many ammos. If you're limited on that front, may as well switch to something that isn't as technologically dependent with regards to bullet construction (in my opinion).

40 S&W 10 round mags for the VP40 are out there. Same for Glock 22/35 mags. I don't know if Glock's 10 round mag issues extend to the 40s.. though hmm I'm struggling to come up with other 40 striker guns; S&W M&P? What else is out there that's striker fired and has a good reputation?

Plenty of options in the 10 round 45acp market as well, though I don't know how many are striker guns (PPQ? Glock? S&W?)

[revchuck38]

If I were in your shoes, Plan A would be to stay with Glocks and chop the 19's frame as in the photo.

Plan B...hard to say. The Walther P99C has already been mentioned, and mine is 100% reliable with the factory ten-round mags and with the pinky rest base plate fits my average-for-a-6'1"-guy hands. It's also stupid accurate. Don't know if you'd like the TDA/long first round trigger or the decocker or the paddle mag release, though.

[Hambo]

Solutions I have in the safe: 10 round Beretta mags and .45 1911s.

Solutions I would consider based on DocGKR's thread and others: .45 M&P or 9mm 1911.

ETA: It wouldn't bother me to go back to a K/L frame either.

[Larry Sellers]

Do either of you know the Glock part number?


SP01812-3

is the part number that I have used in the past to order them
Added a photo of what it looks like in the magazine. Not the gospel but it's worked for my purposes. I've only run carry ammunition through the magazines as that's their only intended purpose. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/4a82cc847f332f2955d09a10369b3f65.jpg

[SilverB]

For 10rd or less, you want to make sure each round counts. HK45C with either 8rd or 10rd mags would be another option. It’s deadly reliable, and as light as a G19. If you don’t like the standard DA/SA trigger, or you don’t want to carry in condition 0, you can convert it to LEM or 8 other variations.

[TGS]

If you don't even know what the details of the law will be and whether permanently limited mags will be legal, I'd just buy some of these before you go chopping up a perfectly good gun:

Magazine Blocks (http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/products/magblock-kits/pistols/glock.html)

Fuck ton cheaper, easier to reload, keeps a regular sized grip, and you don't have to buy a bunch of new mags (so it's even cheaper yet).

[jwperry]

Any interest in a TLR6 equipped G26? Unless you are in the same situation as Doc and had invested the money in having slides milled for RMRs, I'm not sure I'd irreparably modifying the frames. Or I might see if one of the 80% frame vendors offered a G26L/G26XL configuration so that you could still use your G19 or G17 slides on a purpose built smaller frame.

[MK11]

Wasn't the new Magpul 10-round Glock mag supposed to have worked out the kinks?


Other than a brief stint in the early 2000s, I've had to endure 10-round mags my whole shooting life. In my experience, 10-round Sig mags work (both P-series and 320), M&P mags work, Beretta mags work and Browning HP mags work.

[TGS]

Wasn't the new Magpul 10-round Glock mag supposed to have worked out the kinks?


Other than a brief stint in the early 2000s, I've had to endure 10-round mags my whole shooting life. In my experience, 10-round Sig mags work (both P-series and 320), M&P mags work, Beretta mags work and Browning HP mags work.

Basically everybody's works besides Glocks. There's no kinks to be worked out with a 10 round mag simply for being a 10 round mag.

It's nothing to do with them being 10 round mags, it's simply that Glock chose to redesign the mag and made it a poorly executed single stack mag whereas everyone else just took their standard mag and reduces capacity by blocking it, usually be an extended baseplate that takes up a portion of the mag body....including Magpul.

[DocGKR]

The original M&P9c works great with 10 rd mags; for that matter the M&P9 has usable 10 rd mags, and the M&P45 has native 10 rd mags that work nicely. In addition to a cut G19, the G26 also works well. A reliable 9 mm 1911 is also an option, as ToddG proved in his testing....

[okie john]

Thanks to all who replied.

Whatever I choose will be my carry/nightstand gun, not a 10-round variant of something bigger.
I’ll probably stay with 9mm after too many years of magnum revolvers.
I have decades on K-frames and the 1911, so they’re always in the running.
I like HK because they make good 10-round mags for everything. Model is undecided.
TLR6 could make the G26 a contender if mags didn’t still hang up on my hand.
I’ll check out the M&P Compact.

Thanks again.


Okie John

[HCM]

Hrm, it might be a silly question, but are you married to 9mm?

If you're heading towards a magazine ban, I'd probably consider switching that has a built in capacity handicap because...why not? 9mm's big draw is you get much bullets, many ammos. If you're limited on that front, may as well switch to something that isn't as technologically dependent with regards to bullet construction (in my opinion).

40 S&W 10 round mags for the VP40 are out there. Same for Glock 22/35 mags. I don't know if Glock's 10 round mag issues extend to the 40s.. though hmm I'm struggling to come up with other 40 striker guns; S&W M&P? What else is out there that's striker fired and has a good reputation?

Plenty of options in the 10 round 45acp market as well, though I don't know how many are striker guns (PPQ? Glock? S&W?)

While bullets are opportunities in a fight, speed and logistics also favor the 9mm. 9mm is easier to shoot well and skilled shooters can make effective hits quicker, particularly on multiple targets that with bigger calibers. 9mm is also cheaper, which allows you to shoot more. Given shot placement is a greater factor than caliber or bullet performance this is both an logistical and fight advantage.

[spinmove_]

Thanks to all who replied.

Whatever I choose will be my carry/nightstand gun, not a 10-round variant of something bigger.
I’ll probably stay with 9mm after too many years of magnum revolvers.
I have decades on K-frames and the 1911, so they’re always in the running.
I like HK because they make good 10-round mags for everything. Model is undecided.
TLR6 could make the G26 a contender if mags didn’t still hang up on my hand.
I’ll check out the M&P Compact.

Thanks again.


Okie John

Honestly, there’s so many good options out there right now, I’d just pick one that you liked the best for whatever reason and just run with it. All are going to have pros and cons and idiosyncrasies of some sort.

It really is a shame that Glock can’t be bothered to fix their own 10-round OEM magazines.


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[Bucky]

Thanks to all who replied.

Whatever I choose will be my carry/nightstand gun, not a 10-round variant of something bigger.
I’ll probably stay with 9mm after too many years of magnum revolvers.
I have decades on K-frames and the 1911, so they’re always in the running.
I like HK because they make good 10-round mags for everything. Model is undecided.
TLR6 could make the G26 a contender if mags didn’t still hang up on my hand.
I’ll check out the M&P Compact.

Thanks again.


Okie John

If you like Glock, I’d strongly consider the G30, with non +P ammo. They are surprisingly soft shooting, nothing near a magnum revolver. I’d at least try and give one a try if you can.

I feel the same way about the 10 Glock mags (of which I have several). If you want a 9mm, G19 size, a P2000 LEM would be my recommendation.

[ccssid]

A little late to the show...but the m& p compact 2.0 with Apex flat trigger..and https://gunmagwarehouse.com/smith-wesson-magazine-s-w-m-p-compact-9mm-luger-10-round-with-finger-rest-194630000.html

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[okie john]

It really is a shame that Glock can’t be bothered to fix their own 10-round OEM magazines.

This. Talk about a missed opportunity...


Okie John

[okie john]

If you like Glock, I’d strongly consider the G30, with non +P ammo. They are surprisingly soft shooting, nothing near a magnum revolver. I’d at least try and give one a try if you can.

I feel the same way about the 10 Glock mags (of which I have several). If you want a 9mm, G19 size, a P2000 LEM would be my recommendation.

I'll definitely check both of these out. There's a very well-stocked rental range not far from my house.

Any thoughts on the G30S?


Okie John

[Cypher]

Maybe I'm naive but clause 1 of the Constitution prohibits ex post facto laws


"No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."

I am faced with the same dilemma in Colorado. I bought as many 15 round magazines as I could afford and kept the receipts to prove when I bought them.

[Bucky]

I'll definitely check both of these out. There's a very well-stocked rental range not far from my house.

Any thoughts on the G30S?


Okie John

I’ve not shot the 30S, but a carried an old 2.5 Gen (no rail) G30 for several years. Gun has some sentimental value, as the good friend I traded for it is no longer with us.

My pure speculation, but the 30S might have snappier kick due to the lighter slide, which it sounds like you’re trying to avoid.

[RevolverRob]

Maybe I'm naive but clause 1 of the Constitution prohibits ex post facto laws

I am faced with the same dilemma in Colorado. I bought as many 15 round magazines as I could afford and kept the receipts to prove when I bought them.

Yea it would be nice to believe ex post facto would prevent confiscation or destruction, but NY Safe Act theatrics seem to indicate contrary.

Given a 10-round limit - 1911s would be my choice. Though I’d be much more likely to convert back to revolvers and simplify down to two calibers (.38/.357) for defensive purposes.

I wouldn’t expect a 10-round limit though. I look for all future bans to mirror NY Safe and go for 7 or fewer rounds and as strict enforcement of that as possible.

[TCB]

I’m with Wayne...been carrying a VP9SK since they came out. Shootable, concealable, couldn’t ask for much more for a small CCW that handles like a bigger gun.

[Lester Polfus]

I suspect that next year's ballot measure will feature magazine restrictions and that there are enough votes around Seattle to pass it, regardless of what the rest of the state thinks.

The draft legislation that I saw floating around would require that previously owned magazines could be possessed at home, in a locked container, or an "established shooting range" but no where else.

Next payday I'm ordering a shit ton of Magpul 10 rounders for my Glock 19s, in the hopes that they will prove reliable. If not I've got from now until next November to figure it out.

I have no idea what I'll do for the Glock 20. I think the GP100 I just bought will start filing that role.

[TheNewbie]

P225A1?

I know it doesn't make sense on paper, but it's a thought.

[TheBigCountry]

A little late to the show...but the m& p compact 2.0 with Apex flat trigger..and https://gunmagwarehouse.com/smith-wesson-magazine-s-w-m-p-compact-9mm-luger-10-round-with-finger-rest-194630000.html

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That magazine will not fit the 2.0, it's made for the original compact. Unfortunately there are no 10 round 2.0 mags yet.

[Evil_Ed]

While bullets are opportunities in a fight, speed and logistics also favor the 9mm. 9mm is easier to shoot well and skilled shooters can make effective hits quicker, particularly on multiple targets that with bigger calibers. 9mm is also cheaper, which allows you to shoot more. Given shot placement is a greater factor than caliber or bullet performance this is both an logistical and fight advantage.

I definitely don't disagree; I was approaching it from the angle of "one of the primary reasons for carrying a 9 is it's enhanced capacity for the same size gun vs a 40 or 45". If the capacity is artificially capped, one of the primary arguments for going with a 9 in the first place - that of making sure you've got enough gum for everyone in the classroom - is now out the window. At that point, it's down to recoil control and shooter ability, and again - 9mm works. But, in the right platform, 40 is very controllable and adds a little extra barrier penetration to the table at a very low speed cost as compared to 9 - provided you're in the right platform. Now though, we're at a hardware dependency level and I think we can all agree...some platforms and size envelopes just don't work all that well for 40, while others do. I wouldn't recommend a Glock 23 or a P2000sk in 40 for example, but a USP in 40? IMO it handles 40 extremely well. That'd be high on my list of things to think about.

But, that's just me. Anyway, it was just a thought...better too many options than not enough :)

[SilverB]

I forgot there is a 10rd mag for USPc 40. It’s my carry gun with 12rd. A top choice for top reliability.

[Up1911Fan]

A little late to the show...but the m& p compact 2.0 with Apex flat trigger..and https://gunmagwarehouse.com/smith-wesson-magazine-s-w-m-p-compact-9mm-luger-10-round-with-finger-rest-194630000.html

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Except those won't fit a 2.0 Compact.

[Drang]

Maybe I'm naive but clause 1 of the Constitution prohibits ex post facto laws
Lautenberg.

[JSGlock34]

32172

[ccssid]

That magazine will not fit the 2.0, it's made for the original compact. Unfortunately there are no 10 round 2.0 mags yet.Missed that one,...thx

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[spinmove_]

I'll definitely check both of these out. There's a very well-stocked rental range not far from my house.

Any thoughts on the G30S?


Okie John

I’ve never shot the G30 or G30S, but I’ve shot the G36 and that was surprisingly manageable.


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[spinmove_]

You mentioned that you’d not have a problem going back to 1911s. Have you given any thought to the M&P45 and M&P45c with thumbs safeties? I also hear the 2.0 9mms don’t seem to have the 1.0’s accuracy issues anymore.


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[M2CattleCo]

I live in Texas and give less than zero ****s about gun laws.

I carry a 9mm 1911 because I don't like double stack pistols.

Carry what you want.

[okie john]

I live in Texas and give less than zero ****s about gun laws.

I carry a 9mm 1911 because I don't like double stack pistols.

Carry what you want.

I hope that works out for you. I have a different set of circumstances and different requirements.


Okie John

[Mitch]

I'll definitely check both of these out. There's a very well-stocked rental range not far from my house.

Any thoughts on the G30S?


Okie John

I just got a 30S for exactly this reason. I’m only 500 rounds into it, but I’m undecided at this point. It carries pretty nice, I’d probably get it again over a regular Glock 30 for that reason.

I think I might have been happier with a Glock 26 or VP9SK though. I shot 170 rounds at the range in an hour this week and was performing noticeably worse by the end. I think in a 1 hour range session 100-150 rounds may be my limit with this gun.

Accuracy wise I shoot it as well or better than a 19. I haven’t been able to get it on a timer yet so no comment on any split time difference.

I will say it handles 230 gr +p HST better than I expected.


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[PNWTO]

Fellow WA resident here, already pricing a WC Government 9mm and will be ordering some G43 extensions to vet out.

[Salamander]

I went with HK in part because of California's 10-round limit. I've had a pair of P2000's and a P2000sk go thousands of rounds each with only one stoppage between all of them, and that was due to a visibly out of round WWB FMJ bullet.

Seems like a questionable economic decision by Glock not to do something about their 10-round mags. As irrational as some of California's laws are, a lot of people still shoot Glock here, they're the most common pistols at all the local ranges and at every in-state training class I've been to... at one in Alameda County a few years back, it was 22 guys with Glocks and me with HKs. That's a lot of potential magazine sales they're missing out on, in the fifth largest economy in the world.

Of course who knows, maybe with our new incoming anti-gun governor I'll be happy I have revolvers within a few years.

[sikiguya]

During the AWB in the 92, a lot of us went through what you are going through. I kept a few standard capacity handguns as they were grandfathered. New purchases were focused on single stack guns.

H&K P7M8
Walther P5c
Sig P225
Kahr K9

Or neutered compacts like H&K USP Compact, P229/228, Beretta 92C

If you can’t carry as many rounds, carry bigger and look at the 45s

H&K USP45, 45, 45C
Walther PPQ 45
S&W M&P 45
Cz97
Sig P220



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[TGS]

Maybe I'm naive but clause 1 of the Constitution prohibits ex post facto laws



I am faced with the same dilemma in Colorado. I bought as many 15 round magazines as I could afford and kept the receipts to prove when I bought them.

Ex post facto means the gov't can't pass a law and charge you with something that was legal prior to the passing of the bill.

It has no bearing on criminalizing an act after the passage of the law. So, ex post facto means they can't pass a bill tomorrow making 15 round mags illegal and charge you because you owned them today and yesterday, which is prior to the magazines being made illegal. It would only apply to possession/purchasing of 15 round mags after the bill is signed into law.

[Cypher]

Ex post facto means the gov't can't pass a law and charge you with something that was legal prior to the passing of the bill.

It has no bearing on criminalizing an act after the passage of the law. So, ex post facto means they can't pass a bill tomorrow making 15 round mags illegal and charge you because you owned them today and yesterday, which is prior to the magazines being made illegal. It would only apply to possession/purchasing of 15 round mags after the bill is signed into law.

Yeah, that's kind of my point.

[TGS]

Yeah, that's kind of my point.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you posted, but what I took from it is that you feel ex post facto would keep you safe after a bill is passed which criminalizes the ownership of 15 round mags......which isn't how ex post facto works, it would only prevent you from being charged for ownership of said mags prior to the passage of the bill. They can still charge you for possession of the mags after the passage of the bill.

A certain bill can "grandfather" outlawed items, but that's an entirely different tree than ex post facto, and is not a Constitutional guarantee like ex post facto.

[HCM]

Fellow WA resident here, already pricing a WC Government 9mm and will be ordering some G43 extensions to vet out.

They make a WIley Clapp govt 9mm ?

[Cypher]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you posted, but what I took from it is that you feel ex post facto would keep you safe after a bill is passed which criminalizes the ownership of 15 round mags......which isn't how ex post facto works, it would only prevent you from being charged for ownership of said mags prior to the passage of the bill. They can still charge you for possession of the mags after the passage of the bill.

A certain bill can "grandfather" outlawed items, but that's an entirely different tree than ex post facto, and is not a Constitutional guarantee like ex post facto.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I thought the whole point of that clause is that you can't tell me that the 15-round magazine I bought today is illegal for me to own tomorrow. You can tell me I can't buy another one tomorrow but you can't tell me that the one I already have is illegal for me to possess. That's my understanding of ex post facto laws.

I know the magazine ban in Colorado specifically did grandfather in magazines purchased before July 1st of 2013 but if you have a "pre ban" magazine now you can't transfer it to somebody else unless the person you're transferring it to is one of the exemptions.

I also know that enforcement has been pretty much non-existent. I think the only two people that were charged were already prohibited possessors and the DA was just looking for extra charges to add. However, since Colorado has gone waaaay blue this week I expect that to change.

I also make a point of not carrying any magazines that's greater than 15 rounds regardless of when I bought it just to avoid the hassle

[TGS]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I thought the whole point of that clause is that you can't tell me that the 15-round magazine I bought today illegal for me to own tomorrow. You can tell me I can't buy another one tomorrow but you can't tell me that the one I already have is illegal for me to possess. That's my understanding of ex post facto laws.

Nope.

Scenario One: fictional Country of Antigunistan, which has no ex post facto clause:

From the beginning of time until Nov 1st 2018, 15 round magazines have been legal to own. The evil czar takes control of government, and in his plan to destroy gun culture in Antigunistan, he passes a law on Nov 1st that makes it illegal to own 15 round magazines. In addition, he retroactively criminalizes the possession of 15 round magazines prior to November 1st, even before the ban went into place. He throws you in jail, because even though you properly disposed of your 15 round magazines to the authorities on October 28th in anticipation of the law, you are still in violation of the retroactive criminalization, having possessed 15 round mags at all.


Scenario Two: United States of America, which has ex post facto protections:

From the beginning of time until Nov 1st, 2018, 15 round magazines have been legal to own. The evil czar of Antigunistan was actually born in America, and after living here for so many years he gets elected President. He hits up congress for a hardcore anti-gun bill, which criminalizes the possession of 15 round magazines. Due to ex post facto protections, the Czar and Congress can not retroactively criminalize the ownership of 15 round mags prior to Nov 1st...they can only criminalize the possession of 15 round mags (including ones you bought prior to the law going into effect) after November 1st.

[Hambo]

To add to TGS's post, when the assault weapon ban was passed, the government was kind enough to allow citizens to keep "pre-ban" mags, but not buy new ones. I wouldn't expect state legislatures to be so kind.

The hope on the federal level is that the Senate and POTUS hold the line against any legislation introduced in the House.

[GJM]

For me the 19/19X/19 MOS/G45 family offers me almost unlimited flexibility.

32194

[1986s4]

I live in Texas and give less than zero ****s about gun laws.

I carry a 9mm 1911 because I don't like double stack pistols.

Carry what you want.


I'm a Texan in exile living in FL. I am concerned for Texas, this recent election was/is to close in both states. The leftists with money are leaving their screwed up leftist states [CA] and taking their voting habits to the remaining free states. Very concerning.


I love my Colt .38 SA and my K frame M13 3" but prefer to carry my Beretta 92c .

[pangloss]

I'm sure there are a lot of reasons why what I'm writing would be the wrong choice, but I would seriously look at the Glock 37/38. I'd be willing to lose a couple of hundred dollars just to fully explore the possibility. Yes, I know .45 GAP ammo costs more.

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[GJM]

I'm sure there are a lot of reasons why what I'm writing would be the wrong choice, but I would seriously look at the Glock 37/38. I'd be willing to lose a couple of hundred dollars just to fully explore the possibility. Yes, I know .45 GAP ammo costs more.

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Some years back, our house got broken into by some drug attic’s. They stole four firearms including a Glock 37 or 38. I am pretty sure they didn’t realize what caliber it was or they just would have left it.

[OlongJohnson]

Find a 92D Centurion and move the slide to a Compact frame. Convert the Centurion frame to DA/SA and flip it.

USPc 9

P220. It's a .45, but at this point, if I had to pick one gun for the specific criteria of a drag race to the first accurate shot on target, it would be my choice. It's a lot like a slightly thicker (meaning it fits my hands better) Commander-size 1911 in TDA, which when you say it like that, might be nearly carry perfection. But you can buy one in the $600 range that will run ultra-reliably. You can load 185gr light loads for practice.

[LtDave]

My choices for 10 round (or less) guns:

9mm Walther PPS M2 RMSc - 6 to 8 round mags with factory red dot. Amazing accuracy from a G43 sized gun. Easier to shoot than the G43 IMHO.
9mm HK P30SK with whatever trigger system you like. I prefer LEM.
HK P2000, USPc in 9mm or .40 with 10 round mags. HK 10 rounders are good to go.
HK P30/P30L in .40 with 10 round mags if you want a full size gun.
HK45, HK45c or USPc .45 if you want a .45. Again, choose the trigger you like.
Glock 30
1911 if a heavier, full size gun works for you.

[Lost River]

If I was limited to 10 rounds, I would probably go full circle, returning to where I started which was the .45 ACP.

However instead of all steel 5" 1911s as a primary, I would rock my G19 sized G30S, which is what I carry frequently when I am not carrying a large bore revolver in wolf/bear country.

https://i.imgur.com/GYhuqB3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/L38r106.jpg


The G30S has a lot of things going for it, and I truly think the only reason it is not substantially more popular is that it had very poor timing in its introduction into the market place. Had it been brought to the market prior to the 40 S&Ws massive rise in popularity,followed by the 9mm in LE circles (which the general public often mimics), I think it would have been one of the more popular Glock models.

Not really relevant to a conversation more CCW based, but the G30S is what I usually carry when elk hunting and carrying out loads of meat. The initial times out I have a rifle, but to save weight after that, I leave the gun in the pickup and just carry a handgun and a pack frame. A lightweight big bore handgun makes perfect sense, and the G30S in an HPG Kit Bag seems to have become a standard item now.

If I was an outdoorsman/hunter and lived in a 10 round only Communist controlled state, a G30S as an all around CCW, outdoors handgun would make a lot of sense.

[STI]

Why are we not focusing on getting a reliable solution developed for the 10rd G19 and G17 mags, instead of buying multiples of new pistols and mags and getting into a new system?

[spinmove_]

Why are we not focusing on getting a reliable solution developed for the 10rd G19 and G17 mags, instead of buying multiples of new pistols and mags and getting into a new system?

Because, so far, aftermarket 10-round Glock magazines range from “hot garbage” to “almost there, but not quite”. OEM units also range that, but you’d have a more reliable system going to a different platform.

Right now, in 2018, you either take iffy 10-round Glock or “Glock” mags or you do another way. That other way would be either “not Glock” or “.45 Auto Glocks”.


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[STI]

Because, so far, aftermarket 10-round Glock magazines range from “hot garbage” to “almost there, but not quite”. OEM units also range that, but you’d have a more reliable system going to a different platform.

Right now, in 2018, you either take iffy 10-round Glock or “Glock” mags or you do another way. That other way would be either “not Glock” or “.45 Auto Glocks”.


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I get that. I mean a solution for the follower or spring, whichever it may be, even if it's aftermarket guts in a Glock mag housing.

[RevolverRob]

Why are we not focusing on getting a reliable solution developed for the 10rd G19 and G17 mags, instead of buying multiples of new pistols and mags and getting into a new system?

Three potential solutions have been provided in that vein.

Magblocks (probably the best idea)
Magpul 10-round magazines
Reconfiguring an OEM Glock 10-round magazine, with a different follower to increase reliability.

Otherwise, I doubt you'll convince Glock to re-engineer their 10-round magazines at any point in the near future, I don't think it's worth it to them.

Still, the best solution for reliable 10-round 9mm Glock magazines is an H&K. :eek:

____

Honestly, I'd wait to see the proposed legislation, before I made significant moves. If they kick it up a notch over SAFE Act, it could be "No magazines over 7-rounds capacity". Assuming a 10-round capacity might turn out to be hubris, given how SAFE Act has gone.

In the above case, a Kahr or 1911 would be my choice for semi-auto. But like I said before, I'd probably just switch back to revolvers. I might give the 8-round Redhawk a shot, the 10mm GP100 would be interesting, and a TRR8 Smith would find its way into my safe for sure.

[spinmove_]

I get that. I mean a solution for the follower or spring, whichever it may be, even if it's aftermarket guts in a Glock mag housing.

Honestly, if you wanted to make it REALLY simple, you could probably take the Glock 9mm6 follower and give it “stilts” for G19 and G17 magazine bodies so that they’d only accept 10 rounds.


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[WobblyPossum]

My Plan A would be trying to make your G19s work with G19 sized 10 round magazines also. Buy a couple of the Magpul 10 rounders to test with your carry ammo. Buy a couple of the mag blocks that TGS referenced earlier and convert some of your 15 round mags. Some bans that have passed allowed the conversion of standard capacity mags to reduced capacity as long as the conversion was permanent. Hopefully PensFan responds with some tips on making the OEM G19 10 rounders more reliable but I've also heard good things about the 9mm 3 follower that Larry Sellers posted about.

Plan B, assuming you would prefer to stay with the 9mm Glock family of weapons, would be to chop your G19 down to take G26 mags like you posted in the OP or to make a G26 your primary carry. I'm considering chopping one of my G19s for ban state carry. Currently I'm using a G26 though and it's been working well enough. I've also found G26 mags to hang up on my pinky when reloading but I don't really mind it that much. With how uncommon reloads are in defensive shootings, I don't think the mag hang up is enough of a reason to discount a gun as capable, size efficient and versatile as the G26. It shoots almost as well as the G19. My only complaint about the G26 is that the Pearce +0 pinky extension magazine base plates like the one posted in your OP pinch the hell out of my ring finger. I get a small blood blister after shooting a couple of mags using one. If you're going to chop a G19, you could probably relieve the bottom of the front strap where it would meet the base plate though. If you want to stay with Glocks but don't mind branching out into other calibers, the G30 Gen4 and the G30s are both great guns. They're G19 sized when used with the pinky rest 10 round mags.

Plan C, for me, would be switching platforms. If you've been wanting to change things up anyway, this is as good of an excuse as any to move away from the Glock, but it's going to be pricey. I think the P2000sk/VP9sk would have the same issue with mags hanging up on your pinky when trying to reload though. They are very close in size to the G26 so I'd be surprised if you didn't see the same issue. Practically every other manufacturer offers reliable/functional neutered mags. I only have personal experience with the HK P30/VP9 mags but I never saw an issue with them. I'm sure the P2000 mags would be just as reliable. A 9mm 1911 reliable enough for carry would be pricey but, if the money doesn't matter, it would be pretty sweet. If Sig ever gets the P365 squared away, that's a small gun that seems to be very accurate. It also shoots like a larger gun based on the few rounds I put through one.

[PensFan]

FWIW the current Glock 9mm (2183-2) followers works fine for 99%. There are 10's of thousands in use in without issue. I just prefer the 1812-3 #3 follower and recommend it for people experiencing issues with the 2183-2 follower mags. I ran the #3 for years and years during the ban with no issues. And still use the same mags when in restricted states.

FYI drop the SP0 when ordering the 1812-3.

[TGS]

Why are we not focusing on getting a reliable solution developed for the 10rd G19 and G17 mags, instead of buying multiples of new pistols and mags and getting into a new system?


Because, so far, aftermarket 10-round Glock magazines range from “hot garbage” to “almost there, but not quite”. OEM units also range that, but you’d have a more reliable system going to a different platform.

Right now, in 2018, you either take iffy 10-round Glock or “Glock” mags or you do another way. That other way would be either “not Glock” or “.45 Auto Glocks”.


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I get that. I mean a solution for the follower or spring, whichever it may be, even if it's aftermarket guts in a Glock mag housing.


Honestly, if you wanted to make it REALLY simple, you could probably take the Glock 9mm6 follower and give it “stilts” for G19 and G17 magazine bodies so that they’d only accept 10 rounds.


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There's already quality solutions available.

I've been posting about this for years, I've even written in this thread again.

[Exiledviking]

Ex post facto means the gov't can't pass a law and charge you with something that was legal prior to the passing of the bill.

It has no bearing on criminalizing an act after the passage of the law. So, ex post facto means they can't pass a bill tomorrow making 15 round mags illegal and charge you because you owned them today and yesterday, which is prior to the magazines being made illegal. It would only apply to possession/purchasing of 15 round mags after the bill is signed into law.The dirtbags in Sacramento, CA, decided to just that 2 years ago with magazines that held more than 10 rounds. Fortunately a judge put an injunction on it for the time being.

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[Amurr]

As someone who has once considered moving to CA I found the best options to be:
1) 9mm 1911, the new Ed brown looks like a winner
2) Glock 30s in 45
3) P2000 in 9mm or 40
4) Any of the SK HK guns
5) Glock 26 or just get a 19 with 10round mags. To me it’s more about grip and shoot ability
6) HK45c carry with 8 round mags use 10rnd on the bed side

[CS Tactical]

As someone who has once considered moving to CA I found the best options to be:
1) 9mm 1911, the new Ed brown looks like a winner
2) Glock 30s in 45
3) P2000 in 9mm or 40
4) Any of the SK HK guns
5) Glock 26 or just get a 19 with 10round mags. To me it’s more about grip and shoot ability
6) HK45c carry with 8 round mags use 10rnd on the bed side


Just make sure you buy them before you get here since you're stuck with the California Roster.

[OlongJohnson]

If I remember right, blocks and stilts don't pass CA's filter if it's still possible to reassemble the magazine in standard-capacity configuration. I'd expect WA to be at least as rigorous if they go down this road.

[fatdog]

In 2016 I was expecting Hillary to win, and prepping for an eventual a permanent national ban that limited us to 10 rounds. I decided my strategy was USP/c and P2000 LEM guns as my future, for the reasons cited here.

Also as part of the ongoing precautions, I got the 10 round magpul versions to work in my gen 4 & 5 G17 and G19 since then, but I cannot say I have really stress tested those magpuls with the Glocks.

[El Cid]

What about the Beretta APX? They make 10rd mags for all sizes. Have problems been reported or is it still too new as a gun?

[GJM]

Despite what I said about commonality, when I think of Glock it is 9mm, and hard for me to think of .40/45 without it being HK.

[Lester Polfus]

Despite what I said about commonality, when I think of Glock it is 9mm, and hard for me to think of .40/45 without it being HK.

Because I'm heavily invested in multiple Glock 19s as EDC/House Guns/ETC with attendant muscle memory, spare parts and etc, I've been trying to hammer the Glock 20 into the "Field Pistol" role for a long time, when perhaps a HK would have been a better choice.

[KP]

Okie John,

It seems to me you pretty much covered the bases in your post without missing much. It appears you might not be included to move to 40 or 45acp.

I march to the beat of a different drummer and shoot a striker fired Sig. I never got into Glocks because I didn't like their finger grooves. Started shooting pistols late in life and I was told to shoot with a striker fire handgun because it would take me twice as long to shoot half as well with a DA/DS pistol. My edc is the Sig P320 compact/subcompact 9mm with 10rd mags (my state had a 7rd magazine restriction [7rd limitation is still on the books in the state penal law!!!] nevertheless that law was declared unconstitutional the the US Circuit Court in 2015) . One of my Glock fanboy buddies, who has often shot the P320, said the P320 shoots nearly as well as his G19 and G17. Rent the P320 along with the recommended H&Ks, Cz and Walthers, shoot them all and then and only then will you know which 9mm handgun will work for you.

[OlongJohnson]

Because I'm heavily invested in multiple Glock 19s as EDC/House Guns/ETC with attendant muscle memory, spare parts and etc, I've been trying to hammer the Glock 20 into the "Field Pistol" role for a long time, when perhaps a HK would have been a better choice.

For me, the G20 and G21 feel like trying to hang onto a 2x4. The USP .45 full size feels like the shape of my hand.

[Lester Polfus]

For me, the G20 and G21 feel like trying to hang onto a 2x4. The USP .45 full size feels like the shape of my hand.

I've got pretty big hands, so I can run that frame size pretty well. It's the lack of appropriate ammo that will actually run in the guns that give me fits.

On another note, much like my experiences with on-line dating, the Glock 26 was one of those things that looked great on paper but just didn't work for me in real life. My hand size and the grip size do not work well together.

[okie john]

If I was an outdoorsman/hunter and lived in a 10 round only Communist controlled state, a G30S as an all around CCW, outdoors handgun would make a lot of sense.

Yep. I may go this route. Going to hold off for a while on making the purchase, though.

Thanks,


Okie John

[M2CattleCo]

Why are we not focusing on getting a reliable solution developed for the 10rd G19 and G17 mags, instead of buying multiples of new pistols and mags and getting into a new system?

I don't see why people are so anxious to comply with laws that are not even passed yet.

Just get rid of all the guns now for when they ban 'em outright. They're not going to be any happier about your 10 rounds than they are about the 15 you're carrying now.

[GJM]

I’m not sure if this is worthy of a separate new thread, but who has experience with using epoxy or otherwise to adhere one of those magazines blocks in a regular capacity Glock 17 or 19 magazine?

[OlongJohnson]

That's the direction I was thinking. As a TX resident, I have no experience, other than an engineer's habit of reading material data. Loctite's web site is pretty good.

The thing that sucks about a permanent solution like that is the inability to strip a mag to clean it. But it's better than no mag, I guess. And at least Glock mags aren't H&K mags...

If I was going to do that, I'd think along the lines of replicating a G26 mag internally, but with a G17/19 mag body, if that works. I'd probably glue the block in first, verify function, and then cross drill through the block and mag and glue in some dowels. That would both make darn sure nothing came apart for function and be belt-and-suspenders on no possibility of illegal reassembly.

Heck, now I'm curious. Maybe I'll try it just to prove it out. I could test with my G34.

Does anyone know the polymer material identity for OE Glock mags?

This looks like a reasonable summary:

http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/faq

And the product they're selling:

http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/products/magblock-kits/pistols/glock/glock-17-magblock-10-17-9mm.html

[Bobcat]

It feels nice with the 10 round mag with the pinky extension.
Just saying...

[Patrin]

VP9SK hands down...I've dumped my full size VP9s for it...and have 3 identical SKs now. The SK shoots more accurately (for me), is dead-nuts reliable, mags are versatile; flat base 10 rounds for more concealment, pinky extensions for control, +2 mag extensions the same size as the 10 round pinkys, or a 13 round USP mag for a backup if your situation changes (move to another state). The mags are stone cold reliable, and the platform is versatile.

[Exiledviking]

VP9SK hands down...I've dumped my full size VP9s for it...and have 3 identical SKs now. The SK shoots more accurately (for me), is dead-nuts reliable, mags are versatile; flat base 10 rounds for more concealment, pinky extensions for control, +2 mag extensions the same size as the 10 round pinkys, or a 13 round USP mag for a backup if your situation changes (move to another state). The mags are stone cold reliable, and the platform is versatile.Which plus 2 extensions?
And you are referring to the USPc/P2000 13 mags?

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[DocGKR]

As previously posted a west coast LE agency conducted several tests of reduced capacity 10 rd G19 & G17 mags. The most recent test was done in 2016 using Glock OEM G19 10 round reduced capacity magazines. Ten 3rd gen G19's (ser #GXP (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=GXP) , MBG, PMW, PUU, PYT, RRY, VKS, XBF, WNB, WWK) were used; all of the pistols had previously proven extremely reliable feeding and functioning when using standard capacity Glock OEM 15 & 17 round magazines shooting Federal AE9FP 147 gr FMJ practice ammunition, as well as Federal P9HST2 147 gr JHP and Winchester RA9T 147 gr JHP duty ammunition. Ten new OEM Glock G19 10 rd reduced capacity magazines were used. The intent was to fire 100 rds through each pistol using AE9FP practice ammunition fired from a G19 reduced capacity magazine. However, after 500 rounds, ALL of the pistols exhibited magazine related failures to feed and function. The test was stopped and the OEM 10 rd 2183 followers were all changed to OEM #3 followers. An additional 500 rounds of AE9FP were fired through the pistols--again ALL of the pistols exhibited magazine related malfunctions...

Note that in the mid-2000's we did a similar test where we used ten reduced capacity 10 rd OEM G17 mags, along with 10 standard capacity OEM 17 rd G17 mags--ALL of the 10 rd magazines demonstrated feeding malfunctions, while NONE of the standard capacity mags had any problems. In that test, several of the OEM 10 rd G17 magazines exhibited improved function when #3 followers were substituted, but NONE of the reduced capacity 9 mm Glock magazines functioned as reliably as standard capacity 9 mm Glock magazines.

Also as noted previously, for those in states which idiotically limit magazine capacity to 10 rds, Glock 26 10 rd OEM magazines function reliably--so using a G26 or cut G19 is a possibility, but not ideal due to the short grip inhibiting magazine changes. The neutered S&W 10 rd OEM M&P9 & M&P9c magazines seem to have no problems reliably feeding, however, they often fail to drop free, unlike the standard capacity S&W OEM M&P9 mags which drop free with ease. S&W OEM 10 rd M&P45 magazines generally function reliably. HK 10 rd magazines generally work well.

[LSP552]

As previously posted a west coast LE agency conducted several tests of reduced capacity 10 rd G19 & G17 mags. The most recent test was done in 2016 using Glock OEM G19 10 round reduced capacity magazines. Ten 3rd gen G19's (ser #GXP (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=GXP) , MBG, PMW, PUU, PYT, RRY, VKS, XBF, WNB, WWK) were used; all of the pistols had previously proven extremely reliable feeding and functioning when using standard capacity Glock OEM 15 & 17 round magazines shooting Federal AE9FP 147 gr FMJ practice ammunition, as well as Federal P9HST2 147 gr JHP and Winchester RA9T 147 gr JHP duty ammunition. Ten new OEM Glock G19 10 rd reduced capacity magazines were used. The intent was to fire 100 rds through each pistol using AE9FP practice ammunition fired from a G19 reduced capacity magazine. However, after 500 rounds, ALL of the pistols exhibited magazine related failures to feed and function. The test was stopped and the OEM 10 rd 2183 followers were all changed to OEM #3 followers. An additional 500 rounds of AE9FP were fired through the pistols--again ALL of the pistols exhibited magazine related malfunctions...

Note that in the mid-2000's we did a similar test where we used ten reduced capacity 10 rd OEM G17 mags, along with 10 standard capacity OEM 17 rd G17 mags--ALL of the 10 rd magazines demonstrated feeding malfunctions, while NONE of the standard capacity mags had any problems. In that test, several of the OEM 10 rd G17 magazines exhibited improved function when #3 followers were substituted, but NONE of the reduced capacity 9 mm Glock magazines functioned as reliably as standard capacity 9 mm Glock magazines.

Also as noted previously, for those in states which idiotically limit magazine capacity to 10 rds, Glock 26 10 rd OEM magazines function reliably--so using a G26 or cut G19 is a possibility, but not ideal due to the short grip inhibiting magazine changes. The neutered S&W 10 rd OEM M&P9 & M&P9c magazines seem to have no problems reliably feeding, however, they often fail to drop free, unlike the standard capacity S&W OEM M&P9 mags which drop free with ease. S&W OEM 10 rd M&P45 magazines generally function reliably. HK 10 rd magazines generally work well.


Hard not to call that settled science! TY for the summary.

[Patrin]

Which plus 2 extensions?
And you are referring to the USPc/P2000 13 mags?

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https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Magazine-Extension-with-Pinky-Rest-+2-VP9SK-P30SK-547p17972.htm

Work perfectly...and stood the abuse of 4 pistol courses I took.

I'd suggest getting +10% Wolff P2000SK mag springs for reliable slide lock.

[Balisong]

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Magazine-Extension-with-Pinky-Rest-+2-VP9SK-P30SK-547p17972.htm

Work perfectly...and stood the abuse of 4 pistol courses I took.

I'd suggest getting +10% Wolff P2000SK mag springs for reliable slide lock.

Thanks for the heads up. My gf is loving the P30sk I got for her, but wants nothing to do with the flat 10 round mag, so I've been planning on getting the finger extension floor plate for it. May as well get this +2 and wolff spring instead. Keep the other regular pinky rest 10 rounder for when she goes to CA to visit her family. Just got the factory 15 round P30sk mag for HD for her. Eventually we'll get her into a regular P30 now that I know she likes the format and LEM trigger. I just lucked into a sweet deal on the sk so tried that out first for her.

[St99603]

Hopefully, they'll allow "pre ban" mags to still be used. Even here in Pocahontas Warren land, we are "allowed" to have pre ban mags and weapons.....for the most part.

[Larry Sellers]

I know we're not happy with sig as of late but are their 10 round 320 magazines good to go?

***ducks for cover****

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[LockedBreech]

After my absolutely stellar experience with mine, my choice in a 10-round-limit state would be the Smith & Wesson M&P M2.0 4.6" in .45 Auto.

Perceived recoil is lighter than certain 9mm guns I own and it's among the most accurate pistols I own with Federal HST 230-grain standard pressure.

[JAH 3rd]

Both my M&P 45s 1.0 and 2.0 have been stellar using the 10 round factory magazines. I am up to 880 rounds in my 2.0 with various fmj and jhp bullet profiles. One hundred percent function. For me the 1911 fits my hand the best, so that's my default mode when comparing how other pistols feel in my hand. The 1.0 and 2.0 are so close to the 1911 feel they are just a natural for me!

[Pit]

If going 9mm I'd suggest the Wilson Ultralight Carry Commander. I forget I'm wearing it at times.

However, I agree a 10 rd M&P45 M2.0 is an exceptional carry weapon also.

[Simong]

Got a Gen-4 G-19 with 10 RD factory mag, 0 problems with thousands of rounds.
Same with PPQ M-2 9MM 10 RD factory mag, also thousands of rounds 0 problems.

Simong.

[Larry Sellers]

Has it been problem free with carry ammo?


Got a Gen-4 G-19 with 10 RD factory mag, 0 problems with thousands of rounds.
Same with PPQ M-2 9MM 10 RD factory mag, also thousands of rounds 0 problems.

Simong.

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[LSP552]

Has it been problem free with carry ammo?

I think that’s the real problem, and how many duty rounds do you put through EACH new neutered Glock mags you buy. Clearly they aren’t as reliable across the board as their standard capacity brothers.

I’m sure there are reduced capacity G17 and G19 mags that work with some guns. I have a couple of 10 rd G19s that have worked fine through a couple hundred ball rds and a few mags of Gold Dot.

But I don’t trust them, and wouldn’t assume that the next ones I buy will work.

[spinmove_]

I think that’s the real problem, and how many duty rounds do you put through EACH new neutered Glock mags you buy. Clearly they aren’t as reliable across the board as their standard capacity brothers.

I’m sure there are reduced capacity G17 and G19 mags that work with some guns. I have a couple of 20 rd G19s that have worked fine through a couple hundred ball rds and a few mags of Gold Dot.

But I don’t trust them, and wouldn’t assume that the next ones I buy will work.

And therein lies the tricky part, right? I think the part that everyone glosses over in DocGKR’s post is that they used AE 147gr. FPFMJ and HST 147gr. Why is that important? Longer COAL and flat nose profiles. Why does that matter? If your magazines aren’t up to snuff, ammo is going to get hung up on stuff at the worst possible time. Is it going to happen all the time? Probably not, but when it does it’s gonna suck. Can you get away with using 124gr ammo instead? Yeah, probably, but it’ll also probably eventually choke on that too.

Why gamble with it when I can simply use another system that doesn’t have random dubious magazines? Yes it’s expensive to change platforms, but I’d argue that it would be even more expensive now having to vet individual magazines thoroughly before you can carry them when they’re supposed to be a consumable in the first place. That takes the Glock platform from being one of the most pragmatic out there to one of the most expensively frustrating ones.


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[Larry Sellers]

This.
And therein lies the tricky part, right? I think the part that everyone glosses over in DocGKR’s post is that they used AE 147gr. FPFMJ and HST 147gr. Why is that important? Longer COAL and flat nose profiles. Why does that matter? If your magazines aren’t up to snuff, ammo is going to get hung up on stuff at the worst possible time. Is it going to happen all the time? Probably not, but when it does it’s gonna suck. Can you get away with using 124gr ammo instead? Yeah, probably, but it’ll also probably eventually choke on that too.

Why gamble with it when I can simply use another system that doesn’t have random dubious magazines? Yes it’s expensive to change platforms, but I’d argue that it would be even more expensive now having to vet individual magazines thoroughly before you can carry them when they’re supposed to be a consumable in the first place. That takes the Glock platform from being one of the most pragmatic out there to one of the most expensively frustrating ones.


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[psalms144.1]

I'm sure you're sick of hearing how many times I've tried to switch away from the G19 as my primary weapon, only to find that nothing compares to it for all around utility. Having said that, were I not blessed to be an LEO who's exempt from idiotic magazine restrictions, GLOCK is close to one of the LAST platforms I'd consider, due to magazine issues, UNLESS it was the G26.

The G26 is another story in its own right, and, with the exception of reloads under stress, I can do everything I do with the G19 almost exactly as well as I do with the G26. So, if I were looking for a 10 shot 9mm, the G26 makes perfect sense.

Having said all that, if you want a "compact" or "duty" sized 9mm that works with 10 round magazines, I'd look at the M2.0s, or the CZ P07/P10C.

[Simong]

Has it been problem free with carry ammo?

Yes. Any ammo I fed it with.



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[Larry Sellers]

How many rounds and with what grain ammo?


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[Simong]

How many rounds and with what grain ammo?

I will reply with more detail tonight.

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[Bucky]

I will reply with more detail tonight.



And hopefully outside the quoted message block. ;)

J/K. Look forward to your reply. :)

[Simong]

[QUOTE=Larry Sellers;809860]How many rounds and with what grain ammo?



Iv'e shot few boxes each of this Hornady plus few boxes 124 Speer Gold dot duty ammo.

The normal diet of my 9-MM is Perfecta made by Fiocchi. tons of Federal Brass 115-GR and Winchester 115-GR in the white box.

Hope this help.

[45dotACP]

I'm considering ridding myself of Glocks solely because of the shoddy 10 rounders.

If a ban comes to pass, I suspect the important focus in my training will be getting timely and accurate hits.

Also, to me, only accurate guns are interesting. Glocks are pretty accurate, but I've found mine to be ammo picky, and the trigger is difficult for me to shoot as well as a DA revolver or any of the above mentioned guns without significant practice on it.

To me, a 9mm 1911, a Revolver, or the M&P platform with a match grade barrel and 10 round mags are all viable ban state options and relatively easier to shoot/more trustworthy.



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[spinmove_]

I'm considering ridding myself of Glocks solely because of the shoddy 10 rounders.

If a ban comes to pass, I suspect the important focus in my training will be getting timely and accurate hits.

Also, to me, only accurate guns are interesting. Glocks are pretty accurate, but I've found mine to be ammo picky, and the trigger is difficult for me to shoot as well as a DA revolver or any of the above mentioned guns without significant practice on it.

To me, a 9mm 1911, a Revolver, or the M&P platform with a match grade barrel and 10 round mags are all viable ban state options and relatively easier to shoot/more trustworthy.



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I think most guns are easier to shoot than Glocks simply because most guns grips aren’t shaped like weird bricks and don’t have triggers designed to punish your finger. It’s like the perfect pistol for masochists and people who like toxic relationships.

Why do I own 3 Glocks again?


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[JAH 3rd]

I too try to forward think the future of firearms laws and the impact on law-abiding citizens. The magazine round limit is an easy law to pass and on the surface make politicians look like they are doing something positive. That said, I turn my attention to long guns. A lever action rifle doesn't look like an AR or AK, so maybe it is not as intimidating to the public. A pump or semi shotgun are in the mix too. When it comes to gun laws, nothing is off the table.

[okie john]

I too try to forward think the future of firearms laws and the impact on law-abiding citizens. The magazine round limit is an easy law to pass and on the surface make politicians look like they are doing something positive. That said, I turn my attention to long guns. A lever action rifle doesn't look like an AR or AK, so maybe it is not as intimidating to the public. A pump or semi shotgun are in the mix too. When it comes to gun laws, nothing is off the table.

Plenty of good threads along those lines, starting with https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19699-NY-Long-gun-choice&highlight=rifle


Okie John

[JAH 3rd]

Thanks Okie!

[OlongJohnson]

I just figured out that the full-size variants of the P250 and P320 in .45 ACP are 10 rounds standard. I'm not a big fan of the 320, but a smooth, light DAO trigger in a polymer frame that points like a Sig with California-legal mags full of .45 might not totally suck.

[Larry Sellers]

Not a bad choice, personally curious about the reliability of the 10 round mags for the compact and full size 9mm guns.
I just figured out that the full-size variants of the P250 and P320 in .45 ACP are 10 rounds standard. I'm not a big fan of the 320, but a smooth, light DAO trigger in a polymer frame that points like a Sig with California-legal mags full of .45 might not totally suck.

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[Galbraith]

I just figured out that the full-size variants of the P250 and P320 in .45 ACP are 10 rounds standard. I'm not a big fan of the 320, but a smooth, light DAO trigger in a polymer frame that points like a Sig with California-legal mags full of .45 might not totally suck.

My agency started switched over to P320s last year from classic DA/SA Sigs. I ran the full sized P320 9mm version for about a year after their adoption, and before that I ran a mix of 9mm/40/45 DA/SA classic Sigs for about 15 years. The P320s have run surprisingly well for us. I recently decided to take a gamble and buy a full sized P320 in .45acp simply because I have found that I have always favored the caliber. I found that I not only shot the P320fs in .45acp better than I shot Sig P220 .45s, but I tended to outshoot my P320fs in 9mm. Sure, the .45 version does not have the capacity of the 9mm, and my splits are "slightly" faster in 9mm, but my overall accuracy was superior in .45 at all ranges double and single handed. Recoil is quite mild with its beefy slide, and flat recoil spring. At least in the full sized P320, it's .45acp for me. I have a little over 2000 round through the .45 without a single hiccup of any kind, and gun still feels and looks new. 2000 rounds through a P220 would have greatly weakened the recoil spring and showed some decent wear on the internals. I haven't tried the carry or compact models in .45acp, so I can't help you there.

[Bigghoss]

I just figured out that the full-size variants of the P250 and P320 in .45 ACP are 10 rounds standard. I'm not a big fan of the 320, but a smooth, light DAO trigger in a polymer frame that points like a Sig with California-legal mags full of .45 might not totally suck.

In that case, don't forget the M&P45. Lots of LEO trade-ins floating around.


I have some neutered 10-round PX4 and M&P9 mags I need to try out. I had been kicking around the idea of visiting a friend in L.A. and taking my fullsize PX4's as travel guns. And the M&P9 2.0 I got off GB came from CA with 10-rounders. I bought a Ruger P95 about a week after the AWB expired so it came with 10-rounders that never gave me any trouble.

[OlongJohnson]

I had an SD9VE that I sent down the road after S&W sent me replacements for stock parts that were defective. The striker was bent like a banana so the firing pin always hit the inside of the slide before it ever had a chance to get to a primer. The recoil spring guide rod assembly self-disassembled while it was sitting on my work bench. Found the part that flew the farthest in a corner of the garage when I moved stuff months later. I couldn't get the trigger reasonably smooth, and the reason was the crappy machining of the striker block plunger bore in the slide. I knocked the high spots out of it, but ultimately, there was nothing that could be done without making it cost what 1911s cost. Not exactly the same as the M&P action, but it increased my reluctance to mess with any current-production S&W stuff.

I like the P250 a heck of a lot better. I currently have two (.22LR and .380) that have surprised me with how nice they are and how well I shoot them.

[Tom Duffy]

Yea it would be nice to believe ex post facto would prevent confiscation or destruction, but NY Safe Act theatrics seem to indicate contrary.


I wouldn’t expect a 10-round limit though. I look for all future bans to mirror NY Safe and go for 7 or fewer rounds and as strict enforcement of that as possible.

Currently, New York state has a 10 round limit. My understanding is that the original SAFE Act has been eroded over time in the Federal courts. I don't know of any state that currently has a less than 10 round limit and I don't think that is going to happen anywhere.

[M2CattleCo]

All y'all fantasizing about complying with new and exciting gun laws are seemingly glossing over the fact that self defense in most any capacity becomes illegal or near impossible to be considered justified in the eyes of the law that won't let you have a whole handful of ammo in your pistol.

It's ridiculous that anyone would entertain complying with these types of restrictions.

[spinmove_]

All y'all fantasizing about complying with new and exciting gun laws are seemingly glossing over the fact that self defense in most any capacity becomes illegal or near impossible to be considered justified in the eyes of the law that won't let you have a whole handful of ammo in your pistol.

It's ridiculous that anyone would entertain complying with these types of restrictions.

And yet here we are with consistently eroding gun rights and many of the general population are either happy to give them away or simply can’t be bothered to oppose it.


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[okie john]

All y'all fantasizing about complying with new and exciting gun laws are seemingly glossing over the fact that self defense in most any capacity becomes illegal or near impossible to be considered justified in the eyes of the law that won't let you have a whole handful of ammo in your pistol.

It's ridiculous that anyone would entertain complying with these types of restrictions.

I’m in a world of hurt if I end up in court, but that goes with the problem of self defense. I also figure that this set of events is likely to be very rare. I’m far more concerned about other contact with law enforcement, say if a traffic stop turns into the LEO deciding that he or she needs to search me. THAT could be a trip to jail and a shitload of other complications, some of which may be felonies.


Okie John

[spinmove_]

I’m in a world of hurt if I end up in court, but that goes with the problem of self defense. I also figure that this set of events is likely to be very rare. I’m far more concerned about other contact with law enforcement, say if a traffic stop turns into the LEO deciding that he or she needs to search me. THAT could be a trip to jail and a shitload of other complications, some of which may be felonies.


Okie John

Pretty much this. If I’m about to go full-on “Wolverines!” I’m most likely not doing that with 10-round magazines. I’ll save my standard capacity mags for that rainy day. But routine traffic stop gone wrong? Well, you know what they day about those broken taillights. Don’t give’em a reason to slap you with anything.


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[Galbraith]

As far as how many rounds do you need in your gun goes, Jeff Cooper once said "how often do you miss?" The correlation between wasted shots and rounds in the gun is a noticeable trend in law enforcement as we have transitioned from wheel guns to high capacity semiautos which also have the luxury of letting you know when the gun is empty. There is indeed a psychological link between how many rounds you "think" you have to play with, and how quickly you deplete that ammo, aimed shots or not(more often, "not"). Many officers waste full magazines trying to skip rounds off pavement, or shoot through concealment or cover with virtually no effect. These techniques very rarely pay off, and are hardly ever worth the waste of ammo. If you are a scholar of OISs, you will often find that most field officers only hit meat around 25% of the time, and most of those are not vital hits. In fact, the FBI 9mm Justification(The Liability Mitigation Document) stated that officers miss around 70-80% of the time. However, you're looking at a very wide array of field personnel with varying skill and athletic ability. Once you narrow the criteria to SWAT officers, or officers with advanced firearms training or competition experience the hit ration is the exact opposition with about a 75% hit rate. Practice, and skill trump magazine capacity every time. I am perfectly comfortable using a 10+1 .45 in a wonder 9 world.

When it comes to gun law, best practice is to obey the law. When it comes to using deadly force for self defense, you better have every aspect of your case as clean as possible. If you won't do it for yourself, do it for your family. These things end up hammering families financially and emotionally for many years.

[HCM]

As far as how many rounds do you need in your gun goes, Jeff Cooper once said "how often do you miss?" The correlation between wasted shots and rounds in the gun is a noticeable trend in law enforcement as we have transitioned from wheel guns to high capacity semiautos which also have the luxury of letting you know when the gun is empty. There is indeed a psychological link between how many rounds you "think" you have to play with, and how quickly you deplete that ammo, aimed shots or not(more often, "not"). Many officers waste full magazines trying to skip rounds off pavement, or shoot through concealment or cover with virtually no effect. These techniques very rarely pay off, and are hardly ever worth the waste of ammo. If you are a scholar of OISs, you will often find that most field officers only hit meat around 25% of the time, and most of those are not vital hits. In fact, the FBI 9mm Justification(The Liability Mitigation Document) stated that officers miss around 70-80% of the time. However, you're looking at a very wide array of field personnel with varying skill and athletic ability. Once you narrow the criteria to SWAT officers, or officers with advanced firearms training or competition experience the hit ration is the exact opposition with about a 75% hit rate. Practice, and skill trump magazine capacity every time. I am perfectly comfortable using a 10+1 .45 in a wonder 9 world.

When it comes to gun law, best practice is to obey the law. When it comes to using deadly force for self defense, you better have every aspect of your case as clean as possible. If you won't do it for yourself, do it for your family. These things end up hammering families financially and emotionally for many years.

This is a great example of “shooting” mindset vs “fighting with a gun” mindset. It is based on expectations of what your fight will or won’t be. In a fight 1) expect nothing - it’s gonna be what it’s gonna be and 2) in a fight, bullets are opportunities.

The studies you cite are largely the result of minimal training standards and poor emotional control. The latter being more significant.

When you study “average officer” OIS you don’t see officers unsuccessfully trying advanced techniques like skipping rounds or shooting through cover / concealment. Rather you see is an initial burst of basically unarmed fire resulting from a panic response then you see a divergence, some officers continue to panic fire till slide lock, others observe their initial burst was ineffective, regain emotional control and deliver effective hits.

Officers who are better trained, or just have better emotional control, will follow their training and deliver effective hits if the situation allows.

If you are in a gun fight, as opposed to a shooting, fire superiority is a thing. We don’t like the term suppressive fire in LE/ civilian parlance but “directed fire.” (The functional equivilent) is a thing if your opponent has cover and is shooting back.

This shooting involving the Louisville KY PD in April 2018 illustrates the differences in emotional control perfectly. Both officers are armed with standard Glocks. Compare the controlled response of Officer 2 (who returns fire through his windshield) to the panic response of officer 3 who fired 17 rounds.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2018/04/25/louisville-metro-police-shoot-robbery-suspect-body-camera-footage/550519002/


https://youtu.be/HkKpgc0L0dc

[Galbraith]

This is a great example of “shooting” mindset vs “fighting with a gun” mindset. It is based on expectations of what your fight will or won’t be. In a fight 1) expect nothing - it’s gonna be what it’s gonna be and 2) in a fight, bullets are opportunities.

The studies you cite are largely the result of minimal training standards and poor emotional control. The latter being more significant.

When you study “average officer” OIS you don’t see officers unsuccessfully trying advanced techniques like skipping rounds or shooting through cover / concealment. Rather you see is an initial burst of basically unarmed fire resulting from a panic response then you see a divergence, some officers continue to panic fire till slide lock, others observe their initial burst was ineffective, regain emotional control and deliver effective hits.

Officers who are better trained, or just have better emotional control, will follow their training and deliver effective hits if the situation allows.

If you are in a gun fight, as opposed to a shooting, fire superiority is a thing. We don’t like the term suppressive fire in LE/ civilian parlance but “directed fire.” (The functional equivilent) is a thing if your opponent has cover and is shooting back.

All very true. The "panicked" response would be very indicative of the Kyle Dinkheller shooting. Officers with more advanced training and gun handling tend to be more comfortable under stress than those who struggle with the dynamics of the skill.

[HCM]

All very true. The "panicked" response would be very indicative of the Kyle Dinkheller shooting. Officers with more advanced training and gun handling tend to be more comfortable under stress than those who struggle with the dynamics of the skill.

Skill builds confidence which helps emotional control.

The contrast between officers 1 and 2 vs the response of officer 3 illustrates exactly what I am talking about.

[Robinson]

They make a WIley Clapp govt 9mm ?

No.

[Tyrok]

First I must say this is an awesome thread.

I was looking at the custom pistols in the first post (the G19's chopped for G26 mags but retaining the G19 back strap for a full grip), and was wondering if you could accomplish this in the reverse order using Gen4 19 backstraps on a G26.

Does anyone know if the G19 backstraps will snap onto a G26? Or are their backstrap angles too different to work together?

[TheRoland]

This is a great example of “shooting” mindset vs “fighting with a gun” mindset. It is based on expectations of what your fight will or won’t be. In a fight 1) expect nothing - it’s gonna be what it’s gonna be and 2) in a fight, bullets are opportunities.

The studies you cite are largely the result of minimal training standards and poor emotional control. The latter being more significant.

When you study “average officer” OIS you don’t see officers unsuccessfully trying advanced techniques like skipping rounds or shooting through cover / concealment. Rather you see is an initial burst of basically unarmed fire resulting from a panic response then you see a divergence, some officers continue to panic fire till slide lock, others observe their initial burst was ineffective, regain emotional control and deliver effective hits.

Officers who are better trained, or just have better emotional control, will follow their training and deliver effective hits if the situation allows.

If you are in a gun fight, as opposed to a shooting, fire superiority is a thing. We don’t like the term suppressive fire in LE/ civilian parlance but “directed fire.” (The functional equivilent) is a thing if your opponent has cover and is shooting back.

This shooting involving the Louisville KY PD in April 2018 illustrates the differences in emotional control perfectly. Both officers are armed with standard Glocks. Compare the controlled response of Officer 2 (who returns fire through his windshield) to the panic response of officer 3 who fired 17 rounds.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2018/04/25/louisville-metro-police-shoot-robbery-suspect-body-camera-footage/550519002/


https://youtu.be/HkKpgc0L0dc


I don't often disagree with you, but you're comparing Officer 3 (who was in a gunfight with a man trying to kill him) with an officer who shot a man who, while a threat to Officer 3, was very clearly already hit and on the ground and was facing the other way. It's easy to be calm when you've achieved complete tactical superiority.

[Cypher]

Nope.

Scenario One: fictional Country of Antigunistan, which has no ex post facto clause:

From the beginning of time until Nov 1st 2018, 15 round magazines have been legal to own. The evil czar takes control of government, and in his plan to destroy gun culture in Antigunistan, he passes a law on Nov 1st that makes it illegal to own 15 round magazines. In addition, he retroactively criminalizes the possession of 15 round magazines prior to November 1st, even before the ban went into place. He throws you in jail, because even though you properly disposed of your 15 round magazines to the authorities on October 28th in anticipation of the law, you are still in violation of the retroactive criminalization, having possessed 15 round mags at all.


Scenario Two: United States of America, which has ex post facto protections:

From the beginning of time until Nov 1st, 2018, 15 round magazines have been legal to own. The evil czar of Antigunistan was actually born in America, and after living here for so many years he gets elected President. He hits up congress for a hardcore anti-gun bill, which criminalizes the possession of 15 round magazines. Due to ex post facto protections, the Czar and Congress can not retroactively criminalize the ownership of 15 round mags prior to Nov 1st...they can only criminalize the possession of 15 round mags (including ones you bought prior to the law going into effect) after November 1st.


Well that sucks.

[HCM]

I don't often disagree with you, but you're comparing Officer 3 (who was in a gunfight with a man trying to kill him) with an officer who shot a man who, while a threat to Officer 3, was very clearly already hit and on the ground and was facing the other way. It's easy to be calm when you've achieved complete tactical superiority.

Yes, but no. It is still a matter of emotional control.

Along those lines, if I recall correctly it subsequently turned out Officer 3 was NOT actually shot. Not the first time this has happened although it is more common for combatants to be shot and not realize it.

I have not worked with these specific officers but I have both trained and worked with “Officer 3 types” and “Officer 2 types.” Reverse the roles and put the Officer 2 type in the intial gun fight you will see a a much more controlled and effective response from The Officer 2 type. In fact it would Likely be a much shorter and less interesting video.

Here is an example of another “Officer 2 type” a Denver Officer who was actually hot and did an exemplary job of maintaining emotional control and following his training.


https://youtu.be/8Mw6DyshC0M

[zpelletier]

Thread back from the dead I know, but there’s tons of threads covering this and I didn’t want to start another one. I tried to google this and couldn’t find any answers, has there been testing done on newer Glock 10 round magazines? Like in the past year or since Gen5 came out? Or are the magazines exactly the same and not worth testing? Glock seems to be an idea platform choice considering reliability, parts availability, etc but that all goes out the window if there are no reliable 10 round magazines.

[OlongJohnson]

That's the direction I was thinking. As a TX resident, I have no experience, other than an engineer's habit of reading material data. Loctite's web site is pretty good.

The thing that sucks about a permanent solution like that is the inability to strip a mag to clean it. But it's better than no mag, I guess. And at least Glock mags aren't H&K mags...

If I was going to do that, I'd think along the lines of replicating a G26 mag internally, but with a G17/19 mag body, if that works. I'd probably glue the block in first, verify function, and then cross drill through the block and mag and glue in some dowels. That would both make darn sure nothing came apart for function and be belt-and-suspenders on no possibility of illegal reassembly.

Heck, now I'm curious. Maybe I'll try it just to prove it out. I could test with my G34.

Does anyone know the polymer material identity for OE Glock mags?

This looks like a reasonable summary:

http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/faq

And the product they're selling:

http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/products/magblock-kits/pistols/glock/glock-17-magblock-10-17-9mm.html

I've had a chance to think about this more since writing the above:


Standard Glock mags can be limited. Short explanation is, make an internal floorplate and rivet it to the mag body with flush/countersunk pop rivets, so that the internal length is the same as a G26. The spring, follower and rounds then just think they're in a G26 mag. A little bit of fab work, but easy for people who can do it.

If you escape or the law gets changed, you can drill them out. But the fact that you have to cut metal to increase the capacity makes the solution GTG in most places with restrictions. (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?39481-Viable-10-round-magazine-options-for-compact-and-duty-sized-9mm-pistols&p=957477&viewfull=1#post957477)

[RJ]

Headed to the square range today with these two; early G19.5 left and still vetting G43X right.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200104/2d85f9f19e795f00d59a3a99bc34cd90.jpg

The G43X is the 10 round answer for me at the moment.


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[wvincent]

STI Staccato C with Wilson Combat 10 rounders.

[TheNewbie]

Headed to the square range today with these two; early G19.5 left and still vetting G43X right.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200104/2d85f9f19e795f00d59a3a99bc34cd90.jpg

The G43X is the 10 round answer for me at the moment.


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What are your thoughts on the 43x grip vs the 19?

Just right? Too thin?

[sikiguya]

Some of us had this to deal with the AWB. Personally, I had a few normal capacity pistols in my collection. However, going forward, buying full size guns designed for 15 rounds but being neutered to 10 rounds made no sense to me.

My interest switched to single stack pistols such as Sig P220, P225, P239, S&W 3rd Gen single stacks, H&K USP 45c, Kahn’s, etc. Basically full size 9mm or .45.


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[ssb]

What are your thoughts on the 43x grip vs the 19?

Just right? Too thin?

I wear a size medium glove and I feel the hand fit on the 43X is about perfect - I can reach all the controls well and trigger finger placement is excellent. A double stack 9mm Glock is about the limit of acceptable trigger finger reach for me.

[Beat Trash]

What are your thoughts on the 43x grip vs the 19?

Just right? Too thin?

I have large hands with long fingers. My 43x is doable. Unlike my P365, which is so small that it rolls to the left when I close my hand on the fun.

A 19 Gen5 with a medium beaver tail back strap fits my hand perfectly. My 43x works almost as well for my hand size.

[newyork]

Being in ny I’ve contemplated selling my g19.5 for a 26.5 but I have the 19 with a light on it for HD. I have a 48 as well. Probably just keep what I have and save for the 26.

[Beat Trash]

Being in ny I’ve contemplated selling my g19.5 for a 26.5 but I have the 19 with a light on it for HD. I have a 48 as well. Probably just keep what I have and save for the 26.

That’s what I would do in your position.

[newyork]

Sell the 19 you mean or keep AND buy a 26? Also having the 48 complicated things a little. 2 48 or 1 48 and 1 26 ?

[newyork]

I’m starting to notice my 48 doesn’t conceal any better than my 19. Maybe 2 26 is my ticket. I don’t know. I have bought and sold so much in the past I’m tired of the back and forth and posting ads and ffl trips.

[blues]

Sell the 19 you mean or keep AND buy a 26? Also having the 48 complicated things a little. 2 48 or 1 48 and 1 26 ?

I'd keep what you have and save for the 26. You can always decide down the road if you want to make further adjustments...up or down.

[LittleLebowski]

I’m starting to notice my 48 doesn’t conceal any better than my 19. Maybe 2 26 is my ticket. I don’t know. I have bought and sold so much in the past I’m tired of the back and forth and posting ads and ffl trips.

Weird, mine feels much better AIWB.

[newyork]

Weird, mine feels much better AIWB.

It’s certainly lighter and that’s noticeable. I haven’t noticed it laying and flatter although I’m using 2 slightly different holsters.

[MGW]

It’s certainly lighter and that’s noticeable. I haven’t noticed it laying and flatter although I’m using 2 slightly different holsters.

What holsters are you using? I made several ride height and angle adjustments to my DSG before I got it right.

[blues]

What holsters are you using? I made several ride height and angle adjustments to my DSG before I got it right.

Yep. There are several variables:

Ride height.

Belt attachment: Standard Plastic or metal clip, PTD Loops, DCC Clip, the metal clip DSG and JMCK Universal use etc.

Then there is the cant, use of "claw or no claw" and its size / attitude, as well as size and angle of wedge utilized.

Each of these things alone makes a difference but when combined can provide hours of "fun" finding what works best.

[newyork]

What holsters are you using? I made several ride height and angle adjustments to my DSG before I got it right.

G17 V Development Seraph. Wedge. Dark wing.
G48 Hitch Hiker both left and right handed (broke primary hand so I went lefty for a little while). Wedge and dark wing on righty. Dark star tear drop and dark wing and metal clip on lefty. Other two have dcc clips.

To be fair I haven’t carried the 48 right handed in two months. I can’t recall if it rides closer on that side than lefty.

[RJ]

What are your thoughts on the 43x grip vs the 19?

Just right? Too thin?

See below, ssb pretty much summed it up for me as well reference the G43X (also size M). I have a Overwatch TAC trigger on my G19.5 for USPSA - it also fits me.


I wear a size medium glove and I feel the hand fit on the 43X is about perfect - I can reach all the controls well and trigger finger placement is excellent. A double stack 9mm Glock is about the limit of acceptable trigger finger reach for me.

[zpelletier]

So has anyone tested the newer 10 round 19/17 mags to see if they’re more reliable? Or is everyone is switching to a 43x/48?

[LittleLebowski]

It’s certainly lighter and that’s noticeable. I haven’t noticed it laying and flatter although I’m using 2 slightly different holsters.

Mine is noticeably flatter with a Tenicor.

[newyork]

I want to try a Tenicor so bad

[Guinnessman]

I’m starting to notice my 48 doesn’t conceal any better than my 19. Maybe 2 26 is my ticket. I don’t know. I have bought and sold so much in the past I’m tired of the back and forth and posting ads and ffl trips.

Where does your 48 tend to print vs the 19? Just curious.

[GAP]

I want to try a Tenicor so bad

Yep, you saw my G26 in my Tenicor in another post. I’ve tried the new version, but prefer the previous Gen. I think it is thinner and weapon outfitters still has them in stock at a discount. I asked tenicor if they are still making them and they said no, so I picked up a spare.

Edit: Looks like the right handed version is sold out.

https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/tenicor-velo-glock-19-17-t1.html

For me the grip length is what makes the G48 less concealable than the G26. I can wear a pretty well fitted polo in the summer and have no printing at all. I have also found that I prefer the G17 length holster because it creates more leverage and prevents roll out without needing a big fat foam wedge at the bottom. I just straddle the belt loop with the two clips and it positions perfectly on me.

I hear you on buying, selling, trading. I had mentioned in another thread that I sold a few guns in my late twenties and decided to just go all in on Glock 19 and Glock 26. It really makes life easier if you just practice and get used to the short grip on the G26.

I’d keep the 19 though for sure and just trade the 48 towards a 26 and be done with it. Even if it isn’t now, at least it is winter and you can conceal larger guns a lot easier.

[Beat Trash]

I want to try a Tenicor so bad

I tried a Tenicor with both my Glock 19 and 43x. With both, I was getting too much printing from the end of the slide.

The good thing was Tenicor lived up to their no bs return policy. They thanked me for giving their product a shot and accepted the holsters back for a refund.

We’re all built differently, so it may work for you.

[newyork]

Where does your 48 tend to print vs the 19? Just curious.

Back Top of slide sticks out more. May be my wedge placement. Seems to move around a little more than my 19. I’ll throw it on right handed tomorrow and report back.

[newyork]

Yep, you saw my G26 in my Tenicor in another post. I’ve tried the new version, but prefer the previous Gen. I think it is thinner and weapon outfitters still has them in stock at a discount. I asked tenicor if they are still making them and they said no, so I picked up a spare.

Edit: Looks like the right handed version is sold out.

https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/tenicor-velo-glock-19-17-t1.html

For me the grip length is what makes the G48 less concealable than the G26. I can wear a pretty well fitted polo in the summer and have no printing at all. I have also found that I prefer the G17 length holster because it creates more leverage and prevents roll out without needing a big fat foam wedge at the bottom. I just straddle the belt loop with the two clips and it positions perfectly on me.

I hear you on buying, selling, trading. I had mentioned in another thread that I sold a few guns in my late twenties and decided to just go all in on Glock 19 and Glock 26. It really makes life easier if you just practice and get used to the short grip on the G26.

I’d keep the 19 though for sure and just trade the 48 towards a 26 and be done with it. Even if it isn’t now, at least it is winter and you can conceal larger guns a lot easier.

One good thing about the 48 is I have small hands. On the other hand the 19 is fine.

I’ll consider posting a trade my 48 for your 26.5 ad. We’ll see.

[Guinnessman]

Back Top of slide sticks out more. May be my wedge placement. Seems to move around a little more than my 19. I’ll throw it on right handed tomorrow and report back.

I would not focus on the lefty set up since it is not a long term solution. Sell off your lefty holster when the time comes, and use the funds to try other holsters.

Today was my first day carrying a Glock 45 in a JM Custom 2.5 wing claw. Without the wedge, I get the typical printing of the rear sight. The wedge does a great job of keeping the gun from rolling outward.

The Glock carries flatter than my HK’s, but the HK’s benefit from rounded edges. Overall they both carry well in my JM Custom holsters with a wedge.

I have also realized that dark shirts work best for me when concealing a pistol, so that’s my new fashion trend. Hopefully my rambling here helped, if it did not I apologize, and you can tell me to STFU now.😜

[newyork]

Yep, you saw my G26 in my Tenicor in another post. I’ve tried the new version, but prefer the previous Gen. I think it is thinner and weapon outfitters still has them in stock at a discount. I asked tenicor if they are still making them and they said no, so I picked up a spare.

Edit: Looks like the right handed version is sold out.

https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/tenicor-velo-glock-19-17-t1.html

For me the grip length is what makes the G48 less concealable than the G26. I can wear a pretty well fitted polo in the summer and have no printing at all. I have also found that I prefer the G17 length holster because it creates more leverage and prevents roll out without needing a big fat foam wedge at the bottom. I just straddle the belt loop with the two clips and it positions perfectly on me.

I hear you on buying, selling, trading. I had mentioned in another thread that I sold a few guns in my late twenties and decided to just go all in on Glock 19 and Glock 26. It really makes life easier if you just practice and get used to the short grip on the G26.

I’d keep the 19 though for sure and just trade the 48 towards a 26 and be done with it. Even if it isn’t now, at least it is winter and you can conceal larger guns a lot easier.

Agreed on the g17 length. The seraph is 17 length.

[Guinnessman]

What is the difference in the opening width between a Glock 19 Holster vs a Glock 48? I am curious what the difference is between the two.

[Tango]

1911 in 45 or 9MM. Those options of a Stacatto C.

[newyork]

I take it all back. Here is the right hand set up.... excuse the gross man belly hair lol

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200105/fba368f3d59203c4878b1718b64e6cc8.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Navin Johnson]

If the 43x mag didn't stick out so far and the corners were more rounded they would conceal mo Betta.

[RJ]

What is the difference in the opening width between a Glock 19 Holster vs a Glock 48? I am curious what the difference is between the two.

I’d guess around 0.3”.

I have a RCS Perun for both the 19 and the 43X. I am not at home till Thu and can take a pic then unless someone beats me to it.

[Borderland]

I've seen the 10 rd mag ban coming for awhile. One of the reasons I keep everything I buy to 10 rd limit and have for several years. I have a lot of 1911's but you didn't ask about those.

I'm not familiar with anything HK except the full size HK45. I haven't had any mag issues with it yet. They make a compact 45C that will probably run just fine. I think that HK has a pretty good reputation with mags functioning as they should. I have an older P-239 that works well also. That's an 8 rd mag. Not sure what the striker equivalent of that is.

Overall I've had good luck with Sigs and I've owned 4 or 5. I would look there.

[Up1911Fan]

I take it all back. Here is the right hand set up.... excuse the gross man belly hair lol

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200105/fba368f3d59203c4878b1718b64e6cc8.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One thing I do with my Hitchhikers is mount one of the DCC clips directly over the wing, I find that the little bit of extra pressure over the wing helps hide the butt. Add a foam wedge and my 48 disappears.

[newyork]

Never thought of that! There’s a V Development wedge on the one pictured. Seems on my right handed Hitch Hiker I have zero issues. Comfortable and conceals excellent. Lefty not so much.

[blues]

I want to try a Tenicor so bad

This and a couple of other comments pushed me into ordering one last night just out of curiosity. If it doesn't work, their guarantee makes me confident that there's really nothing to lose.

Trying the G19 size of the Velo Gen 4.

(They have a 15% discount for L.E.)

[M2CattleCo]

Anyone use the Tenicor OWB?

I'm liking my Perun and still have (and love) Phantoms but I'm always down to buy a holster.

[ssb]

Anyone use the Tenicor OWB?

I'm liking my Perun and still have (and love) Phantoms but I'm always down to buy a holster.

I've used the ARX and currently use the ARX LUX at work, one or the other, for the past six months with a 19/RMR. I've had no complaints. Subjectively, the Perun rides a bit lower than the ARX and so with some of my suits, one hides better than the other.

I ordered one for my 43X this weekend.

[Padwan]

Anyone use the Tenicor OWB?

I'm liking my Perun and still have (and love) Phantoms but I'm always down to buy a holster.

Never had a Perun but I’ve used an ARX (for a G17) since November. Rides nice and tight. Comfortable over a 12-hour day.