Ares Watch Company

[Totem Polar]

I figured I'd start a separate thread for this one. Up front, I think many here know that I'm friends with Matt. I have no connection with the company (other than being pre-order #9, and ribbing him about needing less Spec-Op, and more "arts n culture" in his alpha and beta test team...).

A bit on Matt's background, now that he's moved on from the agency. Matt went from FAMs to agency contract, spending 12 years there, the last 4 as OIC of firearms training for a group tasked with protective operations. It isn't hard to figure out what that group is.

So here's the deal on the watch company in Matt's words. He's told me that he intends to build a family-owned American watch company. It will take some time, but being a bit of a watch guy, I can see that he's got the right idea, based on our conversations. FYI:



Hey guys, it’s Matt Graham, and I thought I’d put some information out regarding my new watch company, ARES Watch Co., in an effort to answer some of the questions I have been getting.

I started a watch company here in Seattle, WA called ARES Watch Company. The goal of ARES is the design, manufacture, distribution, and service of in-house designed hard-use mission timers. I spent the last 12 years of my professional life at the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and am now building the mission timers I always wished I’d had.

I am building a watch company, not just a watch. This is a very important distinction for me, as I am putting all of the pieces in place to build a company that has both longevity and growth. I am fortunate enough to be in the Pacific Northwest, which is a hotbed for tech and fabrication, and I am taking advantage of that fully. It is my goal to —eventually — produce all of the components of our watches in house. I can facilitate this goal because I have the two things critical for success: watch makers and machinists. Early on in the development of ARES as a company I was able to partner with North Seattle College’s Watch Technology Institute. WTI was originally created by Rolex USA as a two year technical certification school for watch makers. Nick, the owner of Orion, is a recent graduate of the program. The program produces some of the finest skilled watchmakers in the world. I have hired directly from that program and have also committed to a portion of our proceeds of each ARES sale to a scholarship program to the Institute. In addition I have sourced machinists from both the aerospace and defense industry. These two factors will set a foundation for our future success. With watchmakers and machinists I can build anything.

In order to bring ARES on line I am introducing the DIVER-1. The DIVER-1 represents everything I have wanted in an operational dive watch. The specifications are mine and meet my needs for an operational diver. DIVER-1 was designed by me - drawn and sketched by hand in books and journals - over the years. To meet the manufacturing requirements DIVER-1 will be manufactured in Hong Kong - at the same design and fulfillment house numerous successful micro brands currently use - as well as here in the US and Switzerland. As we grow over time it is my intention and plan to bring more and more components in house for manufacturing fulfillment. The biggest problem is: Americans have lost the art of watch machining and watch making. And those that have the art aren’t too open to sourcing. The biggest reality is: if you want professional watches made to professional standards you’d be hard pressed to find finer craftsmanship and quality than some of the Asian manufacturing houses. I am not ashamed to let the best people do the best job, but I am striving to build that process here at home. All DIVER-1 watches will be hand finished, assembled, quality assured, and serviced here in Seattle. We build them and then we send them out the door.

The ARES DIVER-1 specifications are as follows:

- 41.0mm case/42.0mm bezel
- case size 49.5mm 2-piece construction
- 12.5mm thickness
- 22mm drilled lugs w/ 1.8mm shoulderless springbar
- 316L stainless case, crown & bezel
- Ronda 715Li, Gold 5-jewel, movement
- 10 year lithium-ion battery with EOL indicator
- flat sapphire crystal, inner AR coating
- solid caseback, screw down, with Viton seal
- 7.1mm Fat Head crown, screw down, double Viton seal
- C3 Super-LumiNova
- 22mm LASH nylon 3-buckle strap
- individually serialized
- bead blasted finish

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I am going to open up ARES, in the next few days and begin accepting pre-orders for the DIVER-1. The DIVER-1 is a Limited Edition watch for ARES. The price is $695 and includes free FEDEX delivery (CONUS) and a Lifetime Warranty. I have established ARES policy as such:

“I guarantee everything we make. Ares watches are covered to the original owner against manufacturing defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of the product. The Lifetime Warranty does not include misuse or normal wear and tear.

If you are not satisfied with the purchase of your watch at the time you receive it, return it to Ares in new, unworn and unused condition in original packaging, within 7 days of purchase, for a full refund. Watches returned worn, used, or returned with damage, wear, or any sign of use will be subject to a 25% restocking fee.”

I will be officially launching ARES Watch Company this weekend in NYC at Worn & Wounds Wind Up Watch Fair [ed. Nov 2-4]. I have been talking with Ariel Adams at A Blog To Watch over the past few months and we will have some more company and product information coming out through ABTW over the next few weeks. I will be launching our site, areswatches.com, in the next few days and I have already been promoting through our IG @areswatchco.

I am building ARES as a watch making company. We will produce multiple hard-use mission timer styles, in both Li-on quartz and mechanical movements. I am excited to announce, in addition to DIVER-1, we will be launching two new watches in 2019: the DIVER-1C and the FIELD-1 GMT. The DIVER-1C has been selected as an Official Prize of the 2019 US Army Best Ranger Competition, and will be announced and profiled in spring of next year. In addition FIELD-1, a dated GMT, has been selected with ARES as the Official Timer & Watch of the NFL Alumni Association’s 2019 Super Bowl of Golf. The FIELD-1 will be announced and profiled in fall of 2019. Because we are a watch making company all models of ARES diver and field watches will be available with either Li-on or mechanical movements, starting winter of ‘19.

We’re open for business.

[farscott]

Wow, that is a challenge to build an American watch company, especially with the stated goal of that amount of vertical integration. I believe the most integrated watchmaker today is Rolex SA, which runs its own metal foundry and makes all of the components with the exception of the watch hands. Rolex is also famous for making their own machines. But it has taken about one hundred years to get there, including buying the bracelet manufacturer Gay Freres and designing movements.

As for the first watch, dive watches are popular, but it is a very competitive market. I see some things I like in the DIVER-1, but others rule it out for me. The lithium-ion battery is a nonstarter for me. That is just me as I prefer a battery I can find anywhere.

Still I want to see the company succeed and I look forward to other designs.

[Default.mp3]

The lithium-ion battery is a nonstarter for me. That is just me as I prefer a battery I can find anywhere.The 715-Li uses CR2016s, which aren't very exotic at all; you may not be able to find them at Wal-mart, but I'd be confident of finding it at Home Depot or Lowe's.

The watch itself seems like an okay value, around the same price point as the Marathon TSAR, at least with this pre-order pricing. I wonder what automatic movements will be used, and what price point those will land at.

[Flamingo]

I am interested in ordering one. Do they have a storefront? I work in Seattle and I want to take a look at one of them.

[scjbash]

They have "American Made" and "Made in America" on the website. That's no different than the Swiss Made claims thrown around by boutique companies using Asian manufacturing.

I don't have a problem buying watches manufactured in Asia with Asian or Swiss movements, but throwing some foreign made parts together and calling the finished product American made is bullshit.

[UNK]

They have "American Made" and "Made in America" on the website. That's no different than the Swiss Made claims thrown around by boutique companies using Asian manufacturing.

I don't have a problem buying watches manufactured in Asia with Asian or Swiss movements, but throwing some foreign made parts together and calling the finished product American made is bullshit.

Shinola got in a bit of trouble for that.

https://qz.com/564838/shinolas-built-in-detroit-watches-may-not-be-american-enough-for-the-us-government/

[Totem Polar]

They have "American Made" and "Made in America" on the website. That's no different than the Swiss Made claims thrown around by boutique companies using Asian manufacturing.

I don't have a problem buying watches manufactured in Asia with Asian or Swiss movements, but throwing some foreign made parts together and calling the finished product American made is bullshit.

Point taken. How would you bill a product manufactured (assembled) in America?

The Swiss designation is interesting in that watches can be labeled as "Swiss Made" if the design is Swiss, the movement Swiss (and to be Swiss, a movement must be assembled and inspected in Switzerland, and consist of 50 percent Swiss parts by cost, excepting assembly costs), the final inspection (of the watch) is done in Switzerland, and at least 60 percent of the manufacturing costs are of Swiss origin. Go figure.

Made in America, in the sense that *everything* is American is largely not possible. Even Harleys use Japanese shocks. The V-rod was billed as an American musclebike, and it had a German engine. I'm following a new motorcycle company, Janus, and it's ALL American components... except for the engine, which is Indian continent Honda production. But the whole thing is designed, built, and mostly manufactured in America, So are Janus and Harley American made?

This argument has been debated online since forever--occasionally even by people smarter than you or I--and even the FTC has had to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. Shinola got in trouble by using "American Made," and not disclosing the source of critical components, including movements, at all--hence the deceptive practice. Matt is very up front about his sourcing the movement, and exactly why, so I don't personally see that as deceptive, since his press releases and the specs both state what the movement is. I note also that "Made in America" appears nowhere on the watch, while the caseback has the additional engraving "swiss movement;" the exact remedy that the FTC forced at least one watch company to make on their cases. At any rate, I am not a lawyer. I know Matt has one. I suppose time will tell.

[UNK]

Thanks for the education on the Shinola situation. Personally I like the watch. I thinks it's really good looking and I prefer a metal bezel with lume. I definitely like anything that brings more work into this country. I hope he does well with this initial offering and the continued success of the company.



Point taken. How would you bill a product manufactured (assembled) in America?

The Swiss designation is interesting in that watches can be labeled as "Swiss Made" if the design is Swiss, the movement Swiss (and to be Swiss, a movement must be assembled and inspected in Switzerland, and consist of 50 percent Swiss parts by cost, excepting assembly costs), the final inspection (of the watch) is done in Switzerland, and at least 60 percent of the manufacturing costs are of Swiss origin. Go figure.

Made in America, in the sense that *everything* is American is largely not possible. Even Harleys use Japanese shocks. The V-rod was billed as an American musclebike, and it had a German engine. I'm following a new motorcycle company, Janus, and it's ALL American components... except for the engine, which is Indian continent Honda production. But the whole thing is designed, built, and mostly manufactured in America, So are Janus and Harley American made?

This argument has been debated online since forever--occasionally even by people smarter than you or I--and even the FTC has had to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. Shinola got in trouble by using "American Made," and not disclosing the source of critical components, including movements, at all--hence the deceptive practice. Matt is very up front about his sourcing the movement, and exactly why, so I don't personally see that as deceptive, since his press releases and the specs both state what the movement is. I note also that "Made in America" appears nowhere on the watch, while the caseback has the additional engraving "swiss movement;" the exact remedy that the FTC forced at least one watch company to make on their cases. At any rate, I am not a lawyer. I know Matt has one. I suppose time will tell.

[scjbash]

In this one screen grab the US made aspect is mentioned three times, along with one line about domestic and internationally sourced components. It specifically says manufactured in the US while the press release says it is manufactured in Hong Kong.

I get the dilemma of marketing a product with international parts and points of assembly but I think Graham is really pushing the boundaries of honest marketing in this case. Or more frankly, I think it's been crossed. It's clearly being marketed as a watch that is "American made" with some foreign components, which a lot of people could easily assume is referring to the movement, when the truth seems to be that it's almost entirely foreign components with a little of bit of assembly in the US.

I think the honest approach would be to remove all of the made in the USA nonsense and simply stick with assembled in the USA from domestic and foreign components.

For full disclosure since I'm sure it has an influence on my opinion, I've spent the last decade working in marketing fraud prevention.

Edited: I think Lum-Tec is an example of a watch company doing this right. Their site says assembled in Ohio, which is 100% accurate and not misleading in any way.

I like Graham's watch and I hope he does well, and I hope he can bring more production back here. I just have an issue with companies playing fast and loose with the made in USA label. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's not deceiving.

31986

[Totem Polar]

For full disclosure since I'm sure it has an influence on my opinion, I've spent the last decade working in marketing fraud prevention.

Edited: I think Lum-Tec is an example of a watch company doing this right. Their site says assembled in Ohio, which is 100% accurate and not misleading in any way.

I like Graham's watch and I hope he does well, and I hope he can bring more production back here. I just have an issue with companies playing fast and loose with the made in USA label. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's not deceiving.


Again, point taken. I’m certain that you know more about this stuff than I do, since I’m a musician first; a WIS a distant second; and a fraud prevention guy not at all (beyond protecting my own accounts). Shoot him an email and ask him what’s up. I’d be interested in what sort of response you’d get.

And, Lum-Tec is cool, agreed.

[LOKNLOD]

Technical details aside, I think that's a pretty slick looking watch. I'd wear that.

[Arbninftry]

I figured I'd start a separate thread for this one. Up front, I think many here know that I'm friends with Matt. I have no connection with the company (other than being pre-order #9, and ribbing him about needing less Spec-Op, and more "arts n culture" in his alpha and beta test team...).

A bit on Matt's background, now that he's moved on from the agency. Matt went from FAMs to agency contract, spending 12 years there, the last 4 as OIC of firearms training for a group tasked with protective operations. It isn't hard to figure out what that group is.

So here's the deal on the watch company in Matt's words. He's told me that he intends to build a family-owned American watch company. It will take some time, but being a bit of a watch guy, I can see that he's got the right idea, based on our conversations. FYI:


Edit, re read it found the link

[Mark D]

I saw this watch on Instagram and like the design. My personal preference is an automatic movement, but I realize it's not everyone's cup of tea. I hope Matt is successful.

[HopetonBrown]

$700 for a quartz watch made in Hong Kong. I'm not seeing the appeal.

[That Guy]

$700 for a quartz watch made in Hong Kong. I'm not seeing the appeal.

Well, it is a quite handsome watch. I'd be tempted, if I weren't so chronically poor.

[vcdgrips]

700.00 for a quartz watch is quite high in the micro brand and small brand diving world. Steinhart is doing that type of watch with a bracelet for about the same price point using Swiss automatic movements, in TITANIUM.
https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/premium-line/ocean-titanium-500-premium.html

Watches abound coming in under 500 using Seiko and Miyota automatic movements.
http://helmwatches.com/vanuatu.html



Indeed, a Marathon quartz watch with tritium lume can be had for 720.00, under 500 if you can stomach a 36 mm case.


https://www.longislandwatch.com/Marathon_TSAR_Dive_Watch_p/ww194007ngm.htm

https://www.longislandwatch.com/Marathon_TSAR_Dive_Watch_p/ww194027.htm


Lifetime warranty for a a new watch company only means so much. I would take a likely pass.

[Default.mp3]

700.00 for a quartz watch is quite high in the micro brand and small brand diving world. Steinhart is doing that type of watch with a bracelet for about the same price point using Swiss automatic movements, in TITANIUM.
https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/premium-line/ocean-titanium-500-premium.html

Watches abound coming in under 500 using Seiko and Miyota automatic movements.
http://helmwatches.com/vanuatu.html



Indeed, a Marathon quartz watch with tritium lume can be had for 720.00, under 500 if you can stomach a 36 mm case.


https://www.longislandwatch.com/Marathon_TSAR_Dive_Watch_p/ww194007ngm.htm

https://www.longislandwatch.com/Marathon_TSAR_Dive_Watch_p/ww194027.htm


Lifetime warranty for a a new watch company only means so much. I would take a likely pass.To be fair, the watch does have a bit more of a history behind it, if only because of the creator's previous career, enough to make folks be willing to buy it based off of that rather than any technical specs. I mean, there cheapest Resco Instruments are MSRPing at >1000 USD for a quartz watch, and folks seem to be happy to spend that, even though I think that's an incredibly poor value (not to mention that many of the designs look ugly as fuck to me).

[UNK]

I think the watch is pretty cool.
Asthetically I think it is tied togather perfectly.
I particularly like the 12 o'clock marker on the dial.
The flat metal bezel with lume is is very appealing.
The dimensions are very nice as are the bent lugs.

I would have preferred the edges of the bezel to be flat and knurled.
I can't for the life of me figure out why the crown is at ten instead of 4.
It should have been titanium.
It's not a premium movement.

For a Hong Kong watch and as a first offering the price should be much lower.

Here is a watch I recently posted about. I know it's not an apples to apples comparison more like ball park to ball park.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?33214-Dive-Watch&p=794634&viewfull=1#post794634

[RJ]

Some constructive criticism. Full Disclosure: My normal everyday watch is a Rolex Submariner I've had for 20 years. I'm a PADI DM. For SCUBA, I generally prefer a Citizen; my last one was an original Aqualand.

1) Not sure why the entire bezel is luminous. That is puzzling to me. Having used dive watches, at night (e.g. Red Sea, Ras Muhammed), the only luminous part of the bezel I need is the pointer. Having the rest of the bezel be luminous seems extremely distracting.

2) If the bezel is uni-directional, I missed it in the ad copy. That small fact is pretty important to people who use watches for diving. Is it?

3) There is a lot of use of the term "hard-use". Without it being quantified, it reminds me of those ads for the plastic sunglasses "as used by our troops!" that get run over by a deuce and a half to prove how tough they are. This does not strike me as appealing to the target market, unless the target market are Starbucks drinkers in Issaquah WA.

4) I didn't see any reference to a water resistance standard like ISO 2281, other than the "300m" on the face. That seems like something I would expect to see at the $700 price point.

5) I would be very curious what the phrases "operational dive watch" and "mission-timer tool" mean.

I can't comment on the aesthetics because taste is per each individual. I can say "for me", I do not find it particularly attractive.

Having said all that I certainly wish the maker well, and hope they sell a bunch. We need more American-made (well, ok, assembled) products in this country.

[UNK]

Mission Timer sounds cool. That said Sinn has Mission Timer category.https://www.sinn.de/en/SINN_mission_timers.htm


Some constructive criticism. Full Disclosure: My normal everyday watch is a Rolex Submariner I've had for 20 years. I'm a PADI DM. For SCUBA, I generally prefer a Citizen; my last one was an original Aqualand.

1) Not sure why the entire bezel is luminous. That is puzzling to me. Having used dive watches, at night (e.g. Red Sea, Ras Muhammed), the only luminous part of the bezel I need is the pointer. Having the rest of the bezel be luminous seems extremely distracting.

2) If the bezel is uni-directional, I missed it in the ad copy. That small fact is pretty important to people who use watches for diving. Is it?

3) There is a lot of use of the term "hard-use". Without it being quantified, it reminds me of those ads for the plastic sunglasses "as used by our troops!" that get run over by a deuce and a half to prove how tough they are. This does not strike me as appealing to the target market, unless the target market are Starbucks drinkers in Issaquah WA.

4) I didn't see any reference to a water resistance standard like ISO 2281, other than the "300m" on the face. That seems like something I would expect to see at the $700 price point.

5) I would be very curious what the phrases "operational dive watch" and "mission-timer tool" mean.

I can't comment on the aesthetics because taste is per each individual. I can say "for me", I do not find it particularly attractive.

Having said all that I certainly wish the maker well, and hope they sell a bunch. We need more American-made (well, ok, assembled) products in this country.

[Guerrero]

Mission Timer sounds cool. That said Sinn has Mission Timer category.https://www.sinn.de/en/SINN_mission_timers.htm

Ding! Mission's over.

[Totem Polar]

I want to bump this thread and thank scjbash for the pertinent feedback. A quick phone conversation with Matt got the response, roughly, "Good point, can you send me the verbage, the way you just said it, and I’ll get it put on the website?"

I think it’s now super-clear what he’s doing and what his goals are down the line, as currently stated, and the conversation—at least between he and I, in the first week of the website launch—wouldn’t have happened without this thread, and scjbash’s valid input. Opinions on the watch effort aside, an awesome aspect of this place is that, regardless of topic, *someone* always knows their stuff on the subject.

FWIW.

[Totem Polar]

I haven’t responded to Rich, primarily because: not my company, not my expertise. But what the hell, I’ll give it a go now, after looking into things a little.


Some constructive criticism. Full Disclosure: My normal everyday watch is a Rolex Submariner I've had for 20 years. I'm a PADI DM. For SCUBA, I generally prefer a Citizen; my last one was an original Aqualand.

1) Not sure why the entire bezel is luminous. That is puzzling to me. Having used dive watches, at night (e.g. Red Sea, Ras Muhammed), the only luminous part of the bezel I need is the pointer. Having the rest of the bezel be luminous seems extremely distracting.

I don’t know either, because I have zero OCONUS operational experience. My understanding, however, is that the bezel design (countdown, lume, etc) is aimed more at folks who’s legs are cramping while waiting in the dark for a "go" than pure diving.



2) If the bezel is uni-directional, I missed it in the ad copy. That small fact is pretty important to people who use watches for diving. Is it?
Yes, 120-click.



3) There is a lot of use of the term "hard-use". Without it being quantified, it reminds me of those ads for the plastic sunglasses "as used by our troops!" that get run over by a deuce and a half to prove how tough they are. This does not strike me as appealing to the target market, unless the target market are Starbucks drinkers in Issaquah WA.
My understanding is that the prototypes are out in use. I know that one friend that Matt has relied on extensively for alpha/beta help—and I know who he is and have contact info for him—is current DoD and a retired Master Chief and MDV from NSWC; he’s got protos on wrists of members of his former team. FWIW.



4) I didn't see any reference to a water resistance standard like ISO 2281, other than the "300m" on the face. That seems like something I would expect to see at the $700 price point.
Again, not my area of expertise. All I know is that each piece is individually tested in North Seattle, and certified to 40ATM. Probably means more to you than me.



5) I would be very curious what the phrases "operational dive watch" and "mission-timer tool" mean.
For that, you’ll definitely need to talk to somebody else with experience timing missions. Apologies. All I time are concert sets, festival stages, rehearsals, master classes, and lessons.

I hope some of the above makes sense, Rich.

[RJ]

Sounds good. I saw the 120 click unidirectional bezel on second reading.

Definitely looks the business.

A mention of the objective cert protocol for water resistance would be a plus.

Hope he does well and sells a bunch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigD]

$700 for a quartz watch made in Hong Kong. I'm not seeing the appeal.

Did you miss the part about saying the owner used to work for the CIA?

(Also, they claim it’s made in America.)

[BigD]

To be fair, the watch does have a bit more of a history behind it, if only because of the creator's previous career, enough to make folks be willing to buy it based off of that rather than any technical specs. I mean, there cheapest Resco Instruments are MSRPing at >1000 USD for a quartz watch, and folks seem to be happy to spend that, even though I think that's an incredibly poor value (not to mention that many of the designs look ugly as fuck to me).

Funny you mention Resco. . That Ares case looks very, very similar to the same cases that Resco, Dievas and Kobold have all used. In which case it arguably wouldn’t even have been designed in the US. (Arguably. Clearly the dial, hands and bezel are unique.)

[Drang]

I want to bump this thread and thank scjbash for the pertinent feedback. A quick phone conversation with Matt got the response, roughly, "Good point, can you send me the verbage, the way you just said it, and I’ll get it put on the website?"
...
He needs to proofread the guaranty. "Sourced", not "sources."
32297

[Totem Polar]

Yeah, I saw that one too. I'll make sure he lets his web guy know.



ps. *guarantee




;)

[BehindBlueI's]

He needs to proofread the guaranty. "Sourced", not "sources."


*cough* Guarantee *cough*

(-ty is only for securing a debt or taking a legal obligation for a third party)

[Totem Polar]

Here’s a little vlog interview on Ares, and the project. Even if you think the watch is lame, it’s worth watching the interview to hear Matt talk (roughly 6 in) about receiving Ken Hackathorn’s 1968 GMT that Ken bought, new, in country, directly from Ken. I’m here to vouch that Matt was really, really excited to get that legendary 1-owner Rolex, from the legendary gunfighting guru. It’s a great story, and even better hearing it from Matt in person. At any rate:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=6VvZvS6x4dA

[Mark D]

I noticed Chris Costa is talking up the Ares watch on his IG account.

[Totem Polar]

He's got some well-known "beta testers" onboard (eg. Ken Hackathorn) as well as some testers that nobody--outside of maybe Sean--has ever heard of.

One nice touch; a handwritten thank you card and order confirmation goes out to the pre-order people:

[UNK]

Again, point taken. I’m certain that you know more about this stuff than I do, since I’m a musician first; a WIS a distant second; and a fraud prevention guy not at all (beyond protecting my own accounts). Shoot him an email and ask him what’s up. I’d be interested in what sort of response you’d get.

And, Lum-Tec is cool, agreed.

So how is your friends watch company doing?


https://youtu.be/OQK70QsVqO4?t=88

[Totem Polar]

So how is your friends watch company doing?


I’ll know for sure in a couple of days, since my watch, #16, is shipping out the end of this week.

I went to the launch party on the first of Dec, and I got to meet some of Matt’s friends from his old job, a product manager from SOG, and see some of my own friends from around the west coast. Several running protos for everyone to try on. Plus, Ken Hackathorn’s old GMT. :D

The recent bits of news worth reporting:

They’ve been milling case parts in Seattle; there’s a pic of my personal caseback in the raw on IG right now.

Evan at Black Rifle Coffee knows Matt from past work, so they’ve done some things together. BRC is evidently printing money to the tune of 30mil a year at this point; he stepped up to help Ares out, so they’re in the black on the initial run expense.

SOG knives will be selling a limited run of the diver-1 in black PVD at some point.

The protos of the GMT version are being built, and go out to people for T&E starting the first part of March.

My sense is that Matt is giving it his best effort.

As I say, I’ve been waiting like a kid for Christmas for a new watch since wearing a proto around the brewpub Dec 1, and Matt tells me that it’s on track to be on my wrist before March hits.

I’ll post a pic or something when I get the package.

[Totem Polar]

a few pics from the launch, poached from my buddies...

[Grey]

Damn that is some nice lume.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Totem Polar]

So then, I am now the proud owner of serial #16 (I chose it; could've had lower, but I like sweet 16--it's just a serial). Others--many are friends of mine--have started getting theirs. One of my buddies (retired homicide D from the west side that I have dinner with several times a year at this point) picked his up from Matt at a brew pub on Tues--the rest of us had to wait for USPS priority. It's on the wrist as I type. It's worth noting total elapsed time from Matt leaving his agency contract to a bunch of these watches on wrists is roughly 9 months. Not bad, and I'm sure it wasn't anywhere near as fun as making a regular baby.

But enough out of me, here's some pics:

[Totem Polar]

I forgot a lume shot; here's my Homicide Dick's pic (say that 3 times fast)


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/fc6d439865347b2878cfbbcffa5cd037.jpg

[Totem Polar]

The SOG-only black PVD iteration of the Ares D-1 is for sale at SOG knives now; very hot-looking, IMO.

https://www.sogknives.com/ares-watch.html

Number 16 hasn’t left my wrist since I got it in Feb. I set it once, and it’s been strapped to my wrist and timing clinics, lessons, gigs, competitions, workouts, and boring old life ever since. I’m surprisingly enamored of this watch at this point. Straight up: I didn’t need another watch and, as a Sinn/Omega/whatever guy, I was auto or hand wound only for the last decade+. I only bought this quartz piece because I’m friends with Graham, and wanted to support the effort, and the proposed feature set sounded cool. It’s my favorite watch now. My others have been in the safe since I unboxed it. That’s the update, for those who are interested.

[Grey]

The SOG-only black PVD iteration of the Ares D-1 is for sale at SOG knives now; very hot-looking, IMO.

https://www.sogknives.com/ares-watch.html

Number 16 hasn’t left my wrist since I got it in Feb. I set it once, and it’s been strapped to my wrist and timing clinics, lessons, gigs, competitions, workouts, and boring old life ever since. I’m surprisingly enamored of this watch at this point. Straight up: I didn’t need another watch and, as a Sinn/Omega/whatever guy, I was auto or hand wound only for the last decade+. I only bought this quartz piece because I’m friends with Graham, and wanted to support the effort, and the proposed feature set sounded cool. It’s my favorite watch now. My others have been in the safe since I unboxed it. That’s the update, for those who are interested.The fact that you like this more than a Sinn is telling. Im waffling on getting one.

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[Arbninftry]

I liked it but had to send it back. This is how I got it. So it got sent back the next day. Matt was very fast at getting back to me when I emailed him. It arrived at his shop today
So Monday I will get with him.:(

3781337813

[Grey]

Uhhh... that sucks. I am sure Matt will take care of you though. This entire endeavor seems to be built on his reputation so I am assuming he wont be blowing you off or nickle and dime you.

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[Totem Polar]

The fact that you like this more than a Sinn is telling. Im waffling on getting one.

Don’t get me wrong; if you have 4 times as much dough and want a Sinn U1 professional, there’s not a thing in the world wrong with that watch... :cool:



I liked it but had to send it back. This is how I got it. So it got sent back the next day. Matt was very fast at getting back to me when I emailed him. It arrived at his shop today
So Monday I will get with him.:(

37813


^^^that sucks. I’m sure Matt will get it taken care of. Is that a BRC limited, or some such? The black bezel over stainless is the coolest version of the bunch, IMO.

[Grey]

Don’t get me wrong; if you have 4 times as much dough and want a Sinn U1 professional, there’s not a thing in the world wrong with that watch... :cool:





^^^that sucks. I’m sure Matt will get it taken care of. Is that a BRC limited, or some such? The black bezel over stainless is the coolest version of the bunch, IMO.

Sinn U1 is the dream watch... my wallet's nightmare.

Think that is the 1C - combo.

[Arbninftry]

Don’t get me wrong; if you have 4 times as much dough and want a Sinn U1 professional, there’s not a thing in the world wrong with that watch... :cool:





^^^that sucks. I’m sure Matt will get it taken care of. Is that a BRC limited, or some such? The black bezel over stainless is the coolest version of the bunch, IMO.

It is a -1C version. I really liked it buttt..... the second hand....

[UNK]

They are having a sale. $100 off each watch (aprox) and a pre buy option on their first mechanical.

[UNK]

It is a -1C version. I really liked it buttt..... the second hand....

What happened? Has the issue been resolved to your satisfaction?

[Arbninftry]

What happened? Has the issue been resolved to your satisfaction?

Yes he fixed it. Turn around was less than a week. It wears nice, and I don’t have any issues with it. But it was a huge let down to open the box and see that. I still have not really did anything hard core in it. I haven’t wore to the range, because of it. Kind of don’t want to screw it up. So it sits on my shelf

[UNK]

Yes he fixed it. Turn around was less than a week. It wears nice, and I don’t have any issues with it. But it was a huge let down to open the box and see that. I still have not really did anything hard core in it. I haven’t wore to the range, because of it. Kind of don’t want to screw it up. So it sits on my shelf

Dont they have a lifetime warranty for anything that is their fault?

[Arbninftry]

Dont they have a lifetime warranty for anything that is their fault?

Sure. For me the whole draw was it was a tough watch, and no hassle. But then it came with a broken second hand. So I just have not ran it hard. Maybe I need to just go with it, but like I said, kind of a let down

[UNK]

Sure. For me the whole draw was it was a tough watch, and no hassle. But then it came with a broken second hand. So I just have not ran it hard. Maybe I need to just go with it, but like I said, kind of a let down

Man i get that for sure. All the forethought spend the dough and then bam. WTF. It had to be a huge letdown. But how many people wont do certain things while wearing their mechanical watches. Like mow the yard run a chainsaw or shoot?
Maybe it was just a fluke. Ive watched videos of watch repair where they are putting the hands back on. It is a delicate procedure for sure.
Run that thing and run it hard.😎😁

Then post a review with photos! 😁

[BigD]

Yes he fixed it. Turn around was less than a week. It wears nice, and I don’t have any issues with it. But it was a huge let down to open the box and see that. I still have not really did anything hard core in it. I haven’t wore to the range, because of it. Kind of don’t want to screw it up. So it sits on my shelf

If I were you, I’d wear it and not worry about the previous Assembly/QC issue.

It’s not a over engineered tool watch or a rugged “mission timer.” (He should probably apologize to Sinn for that. Lol)

No, its a $15 quartz movement in a case made in China and picked out of a catalog. The reason he can offer a LIFETIME! guarantee (against mechanical defects) is not because Ares figured out a way to make these super durable. It’s because his price per unit cost is a very small fraction of the selling price. He could replace your watch with a new one many times over and still come out ahead.

Wear it in good health.

[Borderland]

Who cares where the parts are sourced. I sure don't. I drive a 4Runner and wear a Seiko, both made in Japan.

Made in the USA was a dead concept about 40 years ago. It would be nice if manufacturing would return but it won't because global economy and all.

If someone wants to market as made in the US with sourced parts from Asia then have at it. I might even buy it if it's a good product.

As long as people in other countries can produce a better product and sell it cheaper I'll buy it. Why do I want to pay a premium for a product of inferior quality because it's made in the USA?

Some of the best selling small pickups in the US are made in Mexico.

[HopetonBrown]

[QUOTE=Borderland;961770]Who cares where the parts are sourced. I sure don't. I drive a 4Runner and wear a Seiko, both made in Japan.


Big difference between Japan and China, bro.

It's pretty shocking that you can buy the movement in these watches for $13 online.

Here's a US assembled watch with the same movement for $142.


https://www.vaerwatches.com/products/c5-design-navy-quick-release-vip?gclid=Cj0KCQiAiZPvBRDZARIsAORkq7eAIvLhekTP9usu 2RYcrm1EVrDNRRwxdJwMR0VY6zNlr7WMLO6bt7gaAiLhEALw_w cB

This watch just makes zero sense to me.

[Borderland]

[QUOTE=Borderland;961770]



Big difference between Japan and China, bro.

It's pretty shocking that you can buy the movement in these watches for $13 online.

Here's a US assembled watch with the same movement for $142.


https://www.vaerwatches.com/products/c5-design-navy-quick-release-vip?gclid=Cj0KCQiAiZPvBRDZARIsAORkq7eAIvLhekTP9usu 2RYcrm1EVrDNRRwxdJwMR0VY6zNlr7WMLO6bt7gaAiLhEALw_w cB

This watch just makes zero sense to me.

Well that is a dilemma, isn't it?

Everyone wants cheap but nobody wants it unless they think its 100% made in the US.

Actually, I applaud Matt's business concept. He's just giving people what they want (US made) about the only way he can for that price.

Global economy is a bitch.

[BigD]

Who cares where the parts are sourced. I sure don't. I drive a 4Runner and wear a Seiko, both made in Japan.

.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you.

But it’s relevant here if only because:

1) he previously called the watches Made in USA when they aren’t. Any watch seller knows that’s a hot button issue. He corrected it when pointed out (now they are “Assembled in the USA” which is accurate.). If it doesn’t matter to you, then it doesn’t matter to you. But to a lot of watch buyers, that’s a big deal. At least he corrected it before the FTC made him.

2)the appeal for many (almost everyone?) that bought the watch is Graham’s background as firearms trainer to the Agency and the idea that they are wearing a uber rugged watch that heroes around the world are trusting their lives to, so you know it’s special. It’s not. It’s no different than watches costing much less.

3) whether you care that the case is Chinese, knowing that can give you an idea of the cost, and just how much the markup is on that watch. Many prospective buyers might be interested to know it’s (imho) overpriced.

(Are you sure you Seiko is Japanese made?)

[HopetonBrown]

Actually, I applaud Matt's business concept. He's just giving people what they want (US made) about the only way he can for that price.



Did you read what I posted before you quoted it?

I linked to a US company assembling watches with the same movement as the Ares for 1/4 the price.

And you know what I like about that other company? They don't use the phrase "American made" like Ares does.

"Our choice of using a Swiss Made movement disqualifies us from a Made in USA or American Made claim. This is regardless of where the remainder of the components are made."

https://journal.vaerwatches.com/american-assembly-vs-american-made/

I applaud their candor. If only Ares was as transparent.

[HopetonBrown]

1) he previously called the watches Made in USA when they aren’t. Any watch seller knows that’s a hot button issue. He corrected it when pointed out (now they are “Assembled in the USA” which is accurate.). If it doesn’t matter to you, then it doesn’t matter to you. But to a lot of watch buyers, that’s a big deal. At least he corrected it before the FTC made him.


The Ares site currently says "American made".

If anyone knows a little about watches, the movement should be a significant portion of the cost of the watch.

Swiss manufactures can spend well north of 1 million dollars on the research and development of a new watch movement.

This is why many watch companies just buy movements from somewhere else and stick them in their own watches, and spend the rest of their money on advertising. 15 years ago Panerai were using $80 pocket watch movements. I think they have their own in-house movements now. Even Rolex was using a Zenith chronograph movement in their Daytona up to about 10 years ago.

A $700 watch using a $13 quartz movement with a case made in China, that sounds like ALOT of margin.

[Borderland]

I don’t necessarily disagree with you.

But it’s relevant here if only because:

1) he previously called the watches Made in USA when they aren’t. Any watch seller knows that’s a hot button issue. He corrected it when pointed out (now they are “Assembled in the USA” which is accurate.). If it doesn’t matter to you, then it doesn’t matter to you. But to a lot of watch buyers, that’s a big deal. At least he corrected it before the FTC made him.

2)the appeal for many (almost everyone?) that bought the watch is Graham’s background as firearms trainer to the Agency and the idea that they are wearing a uber rugged watch that heroes around the world are trusting their lives to, so you know it’s special. It’s not. It’s no different than watches costing much less.

3) whether you care that the case is Chinese, knowing that can give you an idea of the cost, and just how much the markup is on that watch. Many prospective buyers might be interested to know it’s (imho) overpriced.

(Are you sure you Seiko is Japanese made?)

Full disclosure, I'm not a watch guy and I don't collect them. I only have one and I've worn it for 15 years. I worked in construction so I beat the crap out of it. Seiko Titanium Chronograph. Case has a serial # on it and stamped "MOVEMENT JAPAN 7T62-0BZ0". Other than that I have no idea what's inside. I assume it's 100% Japanese. You can buy one used for about $100. It isn't a Rolex. :D

[BigD]

The Ares site currently says "American made".

.

Oh. Well, that’s wrong and not cool.

I was going by post #22 in this thread that said he was changing/changed the verbiage. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?33711-Ares-Watch-Company&p=809599&viewfull=1#post809599

[BigD]

Full disclosure, I'm not a watch guy and I don't collect them. I only have one and I've worn it for 15 years. I worked in construction so I beat the crap out of it. Seiko Titanium Chronograph. Case has a serial # on it and stamped "MOVEMENT JAPAN 7T62-0BZ0". Other than that I have no idea what's inside. I assume it's 100% Japanese. You can buy one used for about $100. It isn't a Rolex. :D

Seiko has factories in Malaysia (and maybe other places.) where they make their low-end watches. QC is reportedly lower on Malaysian watches.

If you aren’t a watch guy, you wouldn’t know or care about the whole “made in XYZ” thing. But Graham is a watch guy. He knows, and knows people care.

[Borderland]

The Ares site currently says "American made".

If anyone knows a little about watches, the movement should be a significant portion of the cost of the watch.

Swiss manufactures can spend well north of 1 million dollars on the research and development of a new watch movement.

This is why many watch companies just buy movements from somewhere else and stick them in their own watches, and spend the rest of their money on advertising. 15 years ago Panerai were using $80 pocket watch movements. I think they have their own in-house movements now. Even Rolex was using a Zenith chronograph movement in their Daytona up to about 10 years ago.

A $700 watch using a $13 quartz movement with a case made in China, that sounds like ALOT of margin.

Good to know. What's the margin on a Rolex, 6-7 x cost?

[BigD]

Good to know. What's the margin on a Rolex, 6-7 x cost?

I’m sure people have tried to calculate it, but it would be hard to accurately say since you can’t go online and buy the movement and cases and hands like you can the Ares.

No doubt there is some (or a lot of) irrationality among Rolex buyers. But if you are trying to make a point by comparing Ares to Rolex, just don’t. Ares is not Rolex. Not even close.

[Borderland]

I’m sure people have tried to calculate it, but it would be hard to accurately say since you can’t go online and buy the movement and cases and hands like you can the Ares.

No doubt there is some (or a lot of) irrationality among Rolex buyers. But if you are trying to make a point by comparing Ares to Rolex, just don’t. Ares is not Rolex. Not even close.

I don't see any difference here between someone buying a Rolex and an Ares. It isn't a value thing (goods delivered for money spent), or even the functionality of the watch, it's personal preference.

When someone says to me, I can have a better ________ for less money I always say it isn't always about the money. The entire Rolex thing should be a shining example of that. After you spend 7K for one you still just have a watch. My cell phone will keep better time. It's using the atomic clocks on navigational satellites that are good for 1 second of drift about every 30,000 years. It can't do that at 300 meters below the surface but most people who own dive watches don't dive, including me.

[UNK]

I don't see any difference here between someone buying a Rolex and an Ares. It isn't a value thing (goods delivered for money spent), or even the functionality of the watch, it's personal preference.

When someone says to me, I can have a better ________ for less money I always say it isn't always about the money. The entire Rolex thing should be a shining example of that. After you spend 7K for one you still just have a watch. My cell phone will keep better time. It's using the atomic clocks on navigational satellites that are good for 1 second of drift about every 30,000 years. It can't do that at 300 meters below the surface but most people who own dive watches don't dive, including me.

Thats like comparing a Supra to a Lamborghini.

[BehindBlueI's]

After you spend 7K for one you still just have a watch.

No, you don't. You also have the cultural cache associated with the ownership of the watch, pride of ownership, etc. I also suspect that resale value is likely to be higher with any brand with more cache and a broader potential market. Watches are jewelry and like most jewelry the intrinsic value of the piece isn't the totality of what you have. It's in the emotions the piece invokes in the owner and the onlooker. That's why Harleys are Harleys, Rolexes are Rolexes, etc. For that matter it's why The Scream sells for over $100 million, a Bob Ross won't fetch $10k, and anything I paint is unlikely to recoup the cost of materials used.

[UNK]

No, you don't. You also have the cultural cache associated with the ownership of the watch, pride of ownership, etc. I also suspect that resale value is likely to be higher with any brand with more cache and a broader potential market. Watches are jewelry and like most jewelry the intrinsic value of the piece isn't the totality of what you have. It's in the emotions the piece invokes in the owner and the onlooker. That's why Harleys are Harleys, Rolexes are Rolexes, etc. For that matter it's why The Scream sells for over $100 million, a Bob Ross won't fetch $10k, and anything I paint is unlikely to recoup the cost of materials used.

Not to mention that in their realm the price that Rolex commands is not out of line.

[Borderland]

No, you don't. You also have the cultural cache associated with the ownership of the watch, pride of ownership, etc. I also suspect that resale value is likely to be higher with any brand with more cache and a broader potential market. Watches are jewelry and like most jewelry the intrinsic value of the piece isn't the totality of what you have. It's in the emotions the piece invokes in the owner and the onlooker. That's why Harleys are Harleys, Rolexes are Rolexes, etc. For that matter it's why The Scream sells for over $100 million, a Bob Ross won't fetch $10k, and anything I paint is unlikely to recoup the cost of materials used.

So you have jewelry that tells you what time it is. I don't understand why someone would buy a watch for the resale value. Do they ever get sold for more than the original price? I know Harley's don't. I've known a few people who owned them.

[Wondering Beard]

So you have jewelry that tells you what time it is. I don't understand why someone would buy a watch for the resale value. Do they ever get sold for more than the original price? I know Harley's don't. I've known a few people who owned them.

New Rolex Daytona at dealer price is around $12000 but they are unobtanium. "Used" Rolex Daytona is around $25000.

Just about any Rolex found on the "used" market is 2 to 3k at minimum over new at MSRP.

[UNK]

So you have jewelry that tells you what time it is. I don't understand why someone would buy a watch for the resale value. Do they ever get sold for more than the original price? I know Harley's don't. I've known a few people who owned them.

Try pricing an original Knuckle.

[GardoneVT]

I don't see any difference here between someone buying a Rolex and an Ares. It isn't a value thing (goods delivered for money spent), or even the functionality of the watch, it's personal preference.

When someone says to me, I can have a better ________ for less money I always say it isn't always about the money. The entire Rolex thing should be a shining example of that. After you spend 7K for one you still just have a watch. My cell phone will keep better time. It's using the atomic clocks on navigational satellites that are good for 1 second of drift about every 30,000 years. It can't do that at 300 meters below the surface but most people who own dive watches don't dive, including me.

You know what a Rolex has that Ares and a cell phone doesn’t?

Heritage. For some that’s a worthy reason to part with a lot of money. Insofar as function goes I can think of multiple times where my cell phone didn’t work but my Speedmaster did. Like when my flight got delayed and I needed to know if I’d miss my connection. Jumping the hour on my X-33 as I stood in the aisle worked a lot better then my satellite powered smartphone with no signal.

[Borderland]

You know what a Rolex has that Ares and a cell phone doesn’t?

Heritage. For some that’s a worthy reason to part with a lot of money. Insofar as function goes I can think of multiple times where my cell phone didn’t work but my Speedmaster did. Like when my flight got delayed and I needed to know if I’d miss my connection. Jumping the hour on my X-33 as I stood in the aisle worked a lot better then my satellite powered smartphone with no signal.

I understand that. I use my watch at night in bed to know the time. I hardly ever have my phone on me or even near by. I don't use it as a timepiece or a camera but lots of people do. Lots of people don't even have a watch anymore, just a cell phone. Most airports have WiFi though so getting a signal is pretty much a thing of the past if you know how to use it.

Mechanical watches will still be working in a electromagnetic pulse explosion. I think I still have one in my safe from the 70's. ;)

[BehindBlueI's]

Do they ever get sold for more than the original price?

https://www.bobswatches.com/images/managed/paul-newman-rolex-daytona.png?v=1498335526158

Of course most don't increase by orders of magnitude, but:


If we take the Submariner as an example, in the mid-90s you could pick up a ref. 16610, thought of by some as the last of the greats before the Supercase was introduced, for around $3,350. With inflation, that translates as a little over $5,000 in today’s money. If you had held onto it, you could have sold it on the current pre-owned market for anywhere from $6,000 to as much as $10,000.

Rolexes aren't my thing, but let's not pretend a Rolex is just a watch.

[HopetonBrown]

Mechanical watches will still be working in a electromagnetic pulse explosion. I think I still have one in my safe from the 70's. ;)

The Ares isn't mechanical.

[Borderland]

The Ares isn't mechanical.

Then it's worthless in an EMP explosion.

Only people with a Rolex will know what time it is.......maybe. :D

[farscott]

Like people, Rolex watches are not all the same, and Rolex makes about one million watches per year. For the last several years, many of the stainless Rolex watches from the Professional Line (Submariner, GMT Master II, Explorer II, Sky Dweller, and Daytona) have been in high demand relative to the available supply. The prices on those models have appreciated quite a bit, and many owners have made profits in excess of ten percent annual returns. Other models, especially those in yellow gold and other Professional models (Yacht Master and Milgauss), have languished. For the first time, some stainless models, notably GMT Master II, are selling at higher prices than two-tone (18K/stainless). The imbalance of stainless models supply compared to demand is starting to push the fashion pendulum back to yellow gold and two-tone.

But there are even pockets where collectors want two-tone Professional watches, especially certain GMT Master II five-digit references. I sold my five-digit GMT Master II for significantly more than I paid for it 1998, even accounting for inflation. I used the proceeds to later purchase an 18K Datejust that has always been my "grail" and had several thousand dollars left from the sale. Once again, not all Rolexes are equal. The Datejust, while the most popular by sales volume, is not as in demand as the Professional models.

There are several theories as to the shortages of Rolex stainless Professional models, including more of the supply being consumed in China and Rolex limiting supply as part of an effort to drive the brand further upmarket (say towards Patek Phillipe). My only datum is that Rolex has been reducing the number of authorized dealers worldwide, suggesting a move upmarket.

[RJ]

All I can say is I’m glad I bought my Yellow/Stainless Sub 20+ years ago. It was a lot of money, but I’d just gotten a bonus and and I always wanted one.

I priced a new one a few months ago and about fell over when they told me the price, that is, “If we could get one for you, sir.”

[farscott]

All I can say is I’m glad I bought my Yellow/Stainless Sub 20+ years ago. It was a lot of money, but I’d just gotten a bonus and and I always wanted one.

I priced a new one a few months ago and about fell over when they told me the price, that is, “If we could get one for you, sir.”

Yup, MSRP has exploded while Rolex has gotten more restrictive. In 1989 when I bought my first Rolex, the MSRP on the 18K Day-Date was a bit under $10K, and watches were sold around $8K. The same model (not reference as there have been changes) MSRP is now over $31K, and the 40mm version is now over $39K. Rolex was also more flexible, allowing dealers to fit the President bracelet of the Day-Date on 18K Datejust models. Now the 18K Datejust is no more, and the President bracelet will only fit the Day-Date.

It used to be that watches were frequently purchased at a discount from MSRP, up to about 20% of that number. Now watches sell above MSRP.

[RevolverRob]

My liver doc yesterday was wearing a Rolex Submariner on his wrist. Granted, he was in his late-50s early 60s, but my thought was, "Glad my insurance company is picking up the tab."

___

Maybe sometimes buying things isn't about what they cost or where exactly the components are made, but instead who makes and sells them. For me, I sometimes support companies who make an equivalent product that is more expensive, because I want to support the person who owns the company.

Example: Prometheus Design Werx makes some really nice pants that are $150/pair, I have a couple of pairs. They are not really any better in many respects than $75 Duluth pants, but I own them anyways. Why? Because the guy who designed them and owns PDW is someone whom I respect, like, and even admire for his attitude, design philosophy, dedication, philanthropy, and as a human being. So rather than have four pairs of pants from Duluth, a company I really don't know much about overall, except they never use fucking photos in their catalog, I have two pairs of PDWs and give my money to them. The pants could literally be made in the same factory by the same people from the same materials and I'd still pay more to PDW for them.

That is, in fact, the absolute beauty of our society is the ability to compare, contrast, and support companies and individuals whom we choose to support.

[UNK]

My liver doc yesterday was wearing a Rolex Submariner on his wrist. Granted, he was in his late-50s early 60s, but my thought was, "Glad my insurance company is picking up the tab."

___

Maybe sometimes buying things isn't about what they cost or where exactly the components are made, but instead who makes and sells them. For me, I sometimes support companies who make an equivalent product that is more expensive, because I want to support the person who owns the company.

Example: Prometheus Design Werx makes some really nice pants that are $150/pair, I have a couple of pairs. They are not really any better in many respects than $75 Duluth pants, but I own them anyways. Why? Because the guy who designed them and owns PDW is someone whom I respect, like, and even admire for his attitude, design philosophy, dedication, philanthropy, and as a human being. So rather than have four pairs of pants from Duluth, a company I really don't know much about overall, except they never use fucking photos in their catalog, I have two pairs of PDWs and give my money to them. The pants could literally be made in the same factory by the same people from the same materials and I'd still pay more to PDW for them.

That is, in fact, the absolute beauty of our society is the ability to compare, contrast, and support companies and individuals whom we choose to support.

I dont believe that was the issue being raised.

[RevolverRob]

I dont believe that was the issue being raised.

I'm honestly not sure what the issue being raised is anymore.

Some folks are up in arms about the watch not being 'Merican made (no watch is, we lack the infrastructure to do that on anything but a small custom scale).

Then some folks noted that you pay more for a brand. Sometimes higher price comes with higher quality, sometimes it doesn't.

And I really hate to tell people this but Rolexes are just watches. Just like Porsches are just cars. Whether there is some type of extrinsic sociocultural value is a matter for discussion, but there is nothing intrinsically better between two watches that both keep accurate time. Even if one costs $50,000 and one cost $5. Functionally, the two are identical, their functionally intended purpose is to keep time, if they both do that, they are equivalent. If you want other things...like social awareness or status gain, one does that better, but that is extrinsic to the watch, not intrinsic.

Folks are getting bent out of shape, because Ares is marketing their watches the way they want to and people are buying them. Man, that's how Ferrari has stayed in business for decades now. They build a shit car that needs constant service, but they market them correctly. You can't even buy the highest end Ferraris, because you aren't in the club. If you want to be in the club, pay the membership fee. That's the exact same argument for a Rolex. You want to be in the club? Pay the dues.

If you want to argue about whether or not Ares can "be in the club of cool watch kids" - that's fine. It seems to me that they made their own club and said fuck you (the general form of you). I can respect that. If the watch keeps time, looks decent, and doesn't cost me my left testicle - I might well buy it. The fact that it seems to piss some folks off kind of appeals to me, but I'm just an asshole that way.

[RevolverRob]

I don’t think that is the issue, but rather one of saying (via implied unqualified claims) that it’s Made in USA (“HANDCRAFTED. AMERICAN. GUARANTEED.”, “The $695 DIVER-1 is an American Mission Timer”, “WE’RE BRINGING AMERICAN WATCHMAKING BACK, ONE STEP AT A TIME.”, etc.) without meeting the criteria (https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard) set out by the FTC to say such things. But I’m not a lawyer or customer (or even potential customer since I’ve no interest in fairly low end watches) — so basically I don’t particularly care one way or...:cool:

Yea, I get that some folks are a little cheesed off by the ad copy. I've felt the same way about Springfield Armory for years, particularly because they had the "made in Brazil" or "made in Croatia" labels on the underside of the dust cover. And claim to be America's oldest gun maker. :rolleyes:

But I can draw a distinction between Springfield and Ares, because it's possible to make a 1911 out of entirely U.S. sourced parts. As far as I can tell, it is not possible to do that with a watch, unless you custom machine every bit and piece of it. I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any true U.S. made watch movements, for instance.

To be fair to Ares - they edited the ad copy and provide this statement right on the front page,
Designed, assembled, tested, and guaranteed for life in Seattle, Washington.

Which while it may not be perfectly "transparent", I think it pretty clear. If people don't know how to read between the lines of "assembled in USA" vs. "Made in USA" at this point, then we're all kind of screwed, because those folks are reproducing.


another (why am I posting? mostly likely because I’m stupid) and I could be completely wrong.

Site Supporters here suck? :confused:

Believe it or not, I've missed having you around. It's not quite the same since LittleLebowski took over, his reign of tyranny is...different. I don't want to say bad, he is a benevolent dictator, but it's different. Kind of like...you had Fidel Castro for years and now you have Raul and it's just not the same, you know? :eek:

[BehindBlueI's]

And I really hate to tell people this but Rolexes are just watches. Just like Porsches are just cars. Whether there is some type of extrinsic sociocultural value is a matter for discussion, but there is nothing intrinsically better between two watches that both keep accurate time. Even if one costs $50,000 and one cost $5. Functionally, the two are identical, their functionally intended purpose is to keep time, if they both do that, they are equivalent. If you want other things...like social awareness or status gain, one does that better, but that is extrinsic to the watch, not intrinsic.



They are equivalent in utility. As you note, there is a lot more to value then mere utility. Arguing that two options are identical because the utility it's identical is demonstrably false, both academically and with real world observation.

Your main error is the assumption that only the utility of telling time matters to the purchaser, and that's the sole reason to purchase a watch.

[RevolverRob]

They are equivalent in utility. As you note, there is a lot more to value then mere utility. Arguing that two options are identical because the utility it's identical is demonstrably false, both academically and with real world observation.

Your main error is the assumption that only the utility of telling time matters to the purchaser, and that's the sole reason to purchase a watch.

I sort of disagree here. I drew a distinction between intrinsic and extrinsic properties of the object in question. Intrinsically, they have identical function and are largely identical. I concur that they are not absolutely identical, because they may achieve that function in distinct ways. However, I argued that neither is intrinsically better than the other as long as they both achieve the same overall goal. In this case the goal is to tell time.

But let's paint it a different way - intrinsically there is very little difference between you and me. I don't mean philosophically, I mean physiologically. We are both adult human males. Functionally, we both walk on two legs (well sometimes I knuckle drag...), we both have spouses, we both can reproduce, etc. There isn't a lot intrinsically different about us physiologically. But we can argue that one of us is actually biologically better than the other, because one of us has fulfilled the basic biological premise of our species, to reproduce, and one of us has not.

If the overarching goal is to tell time, two objects that do that, regardless of how they achieve that purpose are equivalent. It is when one of the two do not achieve that overarching goal that one is superior to the other.

However, if the overarching goal is to utilize the object to achieve other things, like display social status, attract a mate, etc. Then there may be extrinsic properties that are superior, but those properties have no bearing on the materials that the object is made of or its function, rather they are contextually dependent and as a result are representative of sociocultural values.

Thus, my point was that trying to draw a distinct between Ares and a Rolex is both an exercise in futility and frivolity. One can argue that they are intrinsically identical, ergo neither is superior to the other. While another individual can argue that they are extrinsically different and therefore one is superior to the other. And simultaneously, both individuals are correct.

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

<snip>Duluth, a company I really don't know much about overall, except they never use fucking photos in their catalog <snip>.

Pardon the thread drift... but this drives me crazy. Sometimes, I want to know what the actual thing looks like.

Y'all can go back to arguing about watches, intrinsic value, and the FTC now.

[BehindBlueI's]

I sort of disagree here. I drew a distinction between intrinsic and extrinsic properties of the object in question.

And I gave you credit for that "As you note, there is a lot more to value..."

However your argument remains flawed. Intrinsic value =/= utility. Nor does simply telling time sum up the totality of the utility of the various watches. They are identical in one narrow sense, the one you've used to form your argument that it's "just a watch". It isn't, any more then a painting is just the sum of its paint and canvas. Under no theory of ecomomics or any real world observation outside of that narrow way you've framed it would it be "just a watch".


Intrinsically, they have identical function and are largely identical.

Where you are wrong is that people buy these watches simply for the utility of telling time. They don't. You are assuming telling time is their sole function. It isn't. They buy them for how much satisfaction owning the item brings them (utility in the economics sense). They buy them for the social impact. They buy them as speculation. You've noted much of that yourself yet still skip over every other type of utility other than "tell time" to arrive at "just a watch".

[RevolverRob]

Under no theory of ecomomics or any real world observation outside of that narrow way you've framed it would it be "just a watch".

That is demonstrably not true. There are millions, perhaps billions, of real world observations that simply view it as "just a watch", i.e., most humans. There are ~8 billion people in the world and the vast majority of them do not care about the social distinction between a Rolex and a Timex - they are just watches. They are just tools. One tool may be fancier than another, but that doesn't change the base-level of what they are.

I'd argue that the reverse of this point is true, that far fewer people buy watches for the following utilities:


Where you are wrong is that people buy these watches simply for the utility of telling time. They don't. You are assuming telling time is their sole function. It isn't. They buy them for how much satisfaction owning the item brings them (utility in the economics sense). They buy them for the social impact. They buy them as speculation. You've noted much of that yourself yet still skip over every other type of utility other than "tell time" to arrive at "just a watch".

That may be true in a limited sociocultural context, but it is contextually dependent, i.e., it may be true for people who are purchasing Rolex watches. That does not, however, make it true for all circumstances or even the majority of circumstances.

___

Regardless, we are talking past each other on this matter, because we are approaching it from distinct perspectives over which values are more important. In a broad sense neither set of values is particularly important, when most humans do not even bother to own a watch. Either as a social emblem or to tell time.

[BehindBlueI's]

That is demonstrably not true. There are millions, perhaps billions, of real world observations that simply view it as "just a watch", i.e., most humans. There are ~8 billion people in the world and the vast majority of them do not care about the social distinction between a Rolex and a Timex - they are just watches.

You're still trying to box in the definition of utility to fit your goals, but let's play with that one. If that were true and you took a random sample of those folks, offered them free use of a watch for the next year and told them to pick one, 50% would pick the Timex. Those 8 billion would have no preference since they don't value social distinction and there's no economic incentive in either direction. If you want to argue different cultures may value different things, that's true but irrelevant. Yes, utility varies. As it's often put, you can't drink gold yet under normal circumstances few of us would trade a kilogram of it for a gallon of water.

Like I said, Rolexes aren't my thing. Expensive watches period aren't my thing. The fact I don't value them enough to purchase one doesn't undercut the fact it's not 'just a watch.' To argue it is while simultaneously talking about intrinsic and extrensic value isn't even logically consistent. It is just a watch in one small sliver of utility, it's totality is much more.

[UNK]

If you go back to post 52 and read everything posted by #BigD (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=BigD) and #HoptonBrown (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=Hopton) that will identify what is truly at issue.
Further if you go back to the OP and do a google search of the watch maker mentioned in the quote I think you will see they are following the same business model.

[HopetonBrown]

Yea, I get that some folks are a little cheesed off by the ad copy.

To be fair to Ares - they edited the ad copy and provide this statement right on the front page,

Which while it may not be perfectly "transparent", I think it pretty clear. If people don't know how to read between the lines of "assembled in USA" vs. "Made in USA" at this point, then we're all kind of screwed, because those folks are reproducing.


Except the website *did* say "made in the USA", see post #9 for a screenshot.

It does still say "American made" and "manufactured in the US".

They must have been made aware of this thread

[Wondering Beard]

And if Todd were alive he’d be in here making fun everyone — Ares, Timex, and Rolex buyers alike (he wasn’t a fan of Rolex). And especially people that don’t wear “real” watches. “A grown man should carry a gun, a knife, a pen and wear real watch.” (or something like that).

What was his definition (however loosely) of a "real watch"?

I'm just being curious :-)

[Borderland]

Rolexes aren't my thing, but let's not pretend a Rolex is just a watch.


Marilyn Monroe gave Jack Kennedy a Rolex. Did Stormy give Donald a Rolex? Did Monica give Bill a Rolex?

I think it's hard to measure these things.:D

[Obelisk]

Oh heck I’ve been following this thread. It’s been 100% quality entertainment for me. My beater watch is a Lum Tec combat bronze. The child labor sweat shop Miyota 9015 auto movement in it is fantastic. Keeps really good time and with as much abuse I put this poor thing through I can’t find any wear on it. The crystal is perfect and the lume is bright and I can read the watch face anytime wit ease. But it was only a grand and if I mess it up I’ll go buy another one. That’s because it’s in my price range and Lum Tec has a long fantastic reputation.

The next watch I want is an NFW Shumate that in my opinion is lume king with 50 layers of SuperLuminova while my Lum Tec has 7 . That watch is in my price range and then again they have a long fantastic reputation with service and supporting the military. I have no idea when their next batch is but I have $700 ready to send them. It has the same movement too. This is my future beater watch with features you don’t expect on a $700 watch.

Will I ever buy a Rolex? Yes. Do I have money for a Rolex? Yes. But if I’m going to buy a Rolex sub I’ll only buy one if I don’t give a fuck about it getting scratched and wear that bitch like a boss 24/7 instead of it sitting in my sock drawer. If I’m worried about it getting scratched then maybe I can’t afford one. So when I’m in the position I can honestly say I wouldn’t give a fuck about scratching a Rolex, I’ll buy one. Besides at $7k for a used sub, I’d rather get a Barrett .50 really.

Let me tell you about a real Rolex watch wearer. I admire this man. When I was 18 I worked at the Publix meat department. This professional engine builder (I wanna say Indy car but it was 3 decades ago) would come and always order a 2” bone in sirloin steak. I always spoke to him. He had a two tone sub. It was completely beat to hell. The gold link on one side was dented. Scratched to hell and back. To him that expensive watch to me wasn’t anything to him. He owned that blanking watch and wore that female dog on his wrist like a boss. It’s like buck ya’ll this is what it looks like to really have money. Dude was cool as hell.

It’s like knife porn threads. A picture of knives that have never even cut paper. I’ll use a $150 knife as a screw driver in a heart beat that’s because I bought it to use it and not to make brag pictures of tactical gear including cigar, Rolex, Ed Brown, bottle of some stupid expensive bourbon, Microtech, and a 24 carat gold money clip with a grand clipped to it. I buy things I like and things I’ll actually use. I do like to get advice on some items, but you gotta buy what you like and what won’t annoy you if it gets used. As far as a Rolex it is the gold standard for brag pics with guns and that’s not the only reason to want one. There are better watches, there’s just Rolex and Omega the general public knows about. Then there’s Panerai oh boy I want one of those, but if I did everyone would assume it was Invicta’s new line. In that case I’m sure a quality replica will do its job. Lum Tec’s are Panerai-esque so maybe that’s why I like mine.

I did have to edit some profanity as I don’t know how far I can go since I’m new here.

[That Guy]

I'm not a Rolex guy. I'm not even an Ares guy. So, I can only speak in a more general sense.



And I really hate to tell people this but Rolexes are just watches. Just like Porsches are just cars. Whether there is some type of extrinsic sociocultural value is a matter for discussion, but there is nothing intrinsically better between two watches that both keep accurate time. Even if one costs $50,000 and one cost $5. Functionally, the two are identical, their functionally intended purpose is to keep time, if they both do that, they are equivalent.

Every single cheap watch I have ever owned has failed me at some point. For me at least, that is the allure of a more expensive (obviously not Rolex expensive in my case) mechanical watch. Sure, it won't keep time as well as a cheap quartz watch. But it is supposed to keep on telling the time, unlike the cheap watch that I know will fail at some point. (And adjusting a watch let's say once a week is not a huge chore.) So the cheap watch and the expensive watch are not functionally equivalent.

[Borderland]

Will I ever buy a Rolex? Yes. Do I have money for a Rolex? Yes. But if I’m going to buy a Rolex sub I’ll only buy one if I don’t give a fuck about it getting scratched and wear that bitch like a boss 24/7 instead of it sitting in my sock drawer. If I’m worried about it getting scratched then maybe I can’t afford one. So when I’m in the position I can honestly say I wouldn’t give a fuck about scratching a Rolex, I’ll buy one. Besides at $7k for a used sub, I’d rather get a Barrett .50 really.

I've beat the hell out of every watch I've owned. If I wore a Rolex it wouldn't be worth half of what I paid for it in 10 years. For a guy that doesn't work with his hands a Rolex might be a good investment. All I have to do is look at my Seiko to know that a Rolex wouldn't work for me. I treat my watches like I treat my lawn mower. I don't have any diamond studs in my ear either. :D

[farscott]

I've beat the hell out of every watch I've owned. If I wore a Rolex it wouldn't be worth half of what I paid for it in 10 years. For a guy that doesn't work with his hands a Rolex might be a good investment. All I have to do is look at my Seiko to know that a Rolex wouldn't work for me. I treat my watches like I treat my lawn mower. I don't have any diamond studs in my ear either. :D

I pretty much wear a Rolex 24/7. I cut my lawns, do plumbing, shoot, and anything else with a watch on my wrist. The reason I started wearing a Rolex had to do with work, namely I needed accurate timekeeping in locations with large magnetic fields. I ended up with a Milgauss which did the trick. Now there are watches with more resistance to magnetic fields, but back in the late 1980s, the Milgauss was it.

Rolex makes a tough watch but there are easy ways to wreck one. The easiest is to drop it on a tiled floor. That usually takes out the crystal, allowing synthetic sapphire into the movement. At that point, the watch has to be stopped and serviced. For that reason, a Rolex is safest on the wrist.

[Default.mp3]

Every single cheap watch I have ever owned has failed me at some point. For me at least, that is the allure of a more expensive (obviously not Rolex expensive in my case) mechanical watch. Sure, it won't keep time as well as a cheap quartz watch. But it is supposed to keep on telling the time, unlike the cheap watch that I know will fail at some point. (And adjusting a watch let's say once a week is not a huge chore.) So the cheap watch and the expensive watch are not functionally equivalent.A mechanical watch is not inherently more durable or shock resistant than a quartz. In fact, probably the opposite, given that there's way more moving parts to go wrong. I love my Sinn U2S, but because I use it as a beater, it has had to have service multiple times to rectify issues with the movement (generally excessive accuracy issues that I couldn't fix via just demagnetizing). I'm not quite a WIS, but I do know a bit, and if absolute reliability and durability were the aim, I'd probably be looking at a G-Shock for most things, outside of extreme temperatures.

[Wondering Beard]

A mechanical watch is not inherently more durable or shock resistant than a quartz. In fact, probably the opposite, given that there's way more moving parts to go wrong. I love my Sinn U2S, but because I use it as a beater, it has had to have service multiple times to rectify issues with the movement (generally excessive accuracy issues that I couldn't fix via just demagnetizing). I'm not quite a WIS, but I do know a bit, and if absolute reliability and durability were the aim, I'd probably be looking at a G-Shock for most things, outside of extreme temperatures.

Sure and that brings us back to the discussion above about a watch not necesssarily being "just a watch".

[HopetonBrown]

A Rolex isn't a high end watch in the world of horology. Kinda the Cadillac or Lexus of watches.

It's priced at an amount a professional could afford if they wanted to.

There isn't anything really high end or exclusive that's sold in every mall in America like the Rolex is.

The Big 3 watchmakers are Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constantin and Patek Philippe. All 3 make watches in the 6 figures.

Here's one that's over a million.


https://www.patek.com/en/collection/grand-complications/6002G-010

45607

[Totem Polar]

I think the above post makes a point: Rolex really is like Harley Davidson at this juncture. A nice product with solid quality, but really overpriced for what it is. People like the brand, because they grew up admiring from afar, and now both marques are great places for professionals to throw some external reward money on the next trip to the mall in any medium-to-big city they happen to live.

For tool watches, Sinn has that partly sewn up—albeit with occasional challenges from the likes of mid-range Seiko (eg. tuna), Oris, the Glashutte concerns... all for much less money.

For status, it starts with AP and PP, unless you’re a complete plebeian.

As to Ares, mine has been on my wrist since I got it, back in whenever. I just had to reset it for daylight saving, otherwise; just a few strap changes, as I’ve bumbled along banging it against doorways, timing lessons, and shooting .357 out of a King Cobra, and buffalo bore out of an LCR (once in a while).

I’m satisfied with the purchase, for a variety of reasons.
:)

PS.

https://www.watchiwant.com/attachment.php?aid=1974

[Wondering Beard]

A Rolex isn't a high end watch in the world of horology. Kinda the Cadillac or Lexus of watches.

It's priced at an amount a professional could afford if they wanted to.

There isn't anything really high end or exclusive that's sold in every mall in America like the Rolex is.

The Big 3 watchmakers are Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constantin and Patek Philippe. All 3 make watches in the 6 figures.



I'd add A. Lange & Söhne to that list.

[HopetonBrown]

I'd add A. Lange & Söhne to that list.No.

The Big 3 have been in business continually since the 18th and 19th centuries. A Lange started in the '90s.

A Lange was described to me as like a beautifully finished bespoke suit. But if you removed the lining, you'll see loose threads, ragged cuts and sloppy stitching. The Patek, Audemars or Vacheron would be just as finely finished on the interior you don't see as the case and dial.

[RJ]

I pretty much wear a Rolex 24/7. I cut my lawns, do plumbing, shoot, and anything else with a watch on my wrist. The reason I started wearing a Rolex had to do with work, namely I needed accurate timekeeping in locations with large magnetic fields. I ended up with a Milgauss which did the trick. Now there are watches with more resistance to magnetic fields, but back in the late 1980s, the Milgauss was it.

Rolex makes a tough watch but there are easy ways to wreck one. The easiest is to drop it on a tiled floor. That usually takes out the crystal, allowing synthetic sapphire into the movement. At that point, the watch has to be stopped and serviced. For that reason, a Rolex is safest on the wrist.

That is pretty much me, as well, for the last 24 years or so, with a few exceptions.

When I shoot, I take off my wedding ring and put on a well-used Timex Indiglo Ironman in OD/Black. I've had this Timex maybe 3 years. It is beat up but keeps perfect time.

When I need a lightweight, low visibility travel watch, I put on my other Timex Indiglo Ironman in Blue/Black. It is what I wear when I don't, really, want to be flashy.

When I was diving (a lot) I used my Citizen Aqualand. I had it over ten years, and had it serviced regularly to replace all the seals, batteries, and verify water proofness at the Sport Diving depths I was at (max approx 130 fsw).

The only time I've not used my Citizen was on a liveaboard dive trip on the Cayman Aggressor in the 90s. On that weeklong trip, I used my sub because you know, Dive Watch and all. It performed flawlessly. It was only after the trip it occurred to me that on The Wall off Cayman, with the blue abyss dissappearing in the gloom below me to 4,000 ft, was probably not a good time to be wearing a watch that cost me four figures. :cool:

But literally every other waking moment over the last couple dozen years I've worn my sub. To work, play, fun, sports, etc. I've changed the oil in my E46 wearing it.

It has worn surprisingly well over the years. I have a few "beauty impacts" on the gold especially where I've bumped into something or other. Last service i had to get a new stem as well as a new bezel, because I had some chips. That was not cheap, gold being what it is these days.

And it still came back from Rolex looking marrrrrvelous, all bright and shiny.

So, just as an observation, if you see a Rolex and it's all nice and bright, it may be a pretty experienced watch; I know mine is.

(and in case he is monitoring this thread, I have put it in my Will to give to my son when I croak. :) )

[That Guy]

A mechanical watch is not inherently more durable or shock resistant than a quartz. In fact, probably the opposite, given that there's way more moving parts to go wrong. I love my Sinn U2S, but because I use it as a beater, it has had to have service multiple times to rectify issues with the movement (generally excessive accuracy issues that I couldn't fix via just demagnetizing).

While you have a point on the increased mechanical complexities of a mechanical watch, my cheap watches typically were not killed by hard impacts or the like. They normally just... stopped working. Like the one that's supposed to charge its internal battery from being exposed to light, but the battery holds only a very small charge. Or a previous watch that just stopped working and replacing the battery didn't help. At this point I have enough experience with cheaper quartz watches to not trust them at all. And I've tried the inexpensive Seiko mechanical route as well, and that did not go well either. So personally, when someone says a cheap watch is "just as good" as a more expensive one, I disagree with that. I at least hope that the more expensive ones are not going to go tits up in a few years, get tossed into garbage, and end up in a landfill while the next piece of cheap Chinese junk takes its place.

Still though, what you said about your U2 was both disappointing and concerning news to me. If possible, I would be interested in hearing more about how much beating has the watch taken and what were its limits.

[olstyn]

Here's one that's over a million.

https://www.patek.com/en/collection/grand-complications/6002G-010

45607

Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. I'm probably just an uncultured heathen, but to my eyes, that watch is seriously ugly.

[oregon45]

Any recent experiences with Ares watches? I've got my eye on a quartz Diver 1.

[Totem Polar]

Any recent experiences with Ares watches? I've got my eye on a quartz Diver 1.

Nothing to note beyond the fact that I’m still wearing mine. This thing and a Sinn U1 are the only watches I’ve worn long-term that I didn’t end up having to repair.

[oregon45]

Nothing to note beyond the fact that I’m still wearing mine. This thing and a Sinn U1 are the only watches I’ve worn long-term that I didn’t end up having to repair.

Thanks Totem, that's the kind of feedback I was looking for. Really interested in a Diver 1 quartz as a "set and forget" alternative to my automatic watches.

[Totem Polar]

Thanks Totem, that's the kind of feedback I was looking for. Really interested in a Diver 1 quartz as a "set and forget" alternative to my automatic watches.

Best use, IMHO. As a grab n go that’s always on. I typically only re-set it each daylight saving switch. I swap bands a lot more than I unscrew the crown, that’s for sure.

[rd62]

This is timely as I recently got a promotion and my open water certification. In celebration I was considering buying myself a new dive watch. I daily wear a Seiko SKX007 but it needs service (gains substantial time daily and I have to reset the time most mornings) and I was also looking for something a little higher end. Rolex and Omega are out of my price range.

I was considering either the Ares Diver-1 or a Marathon GSAR. I was leaning toward the Ares but in looking at reviews via Google see a lot of people calling out QC issues. I know people usually only post the problems though and not good experiences.

Anyone have noteworthy QC or CS issues?

[vcdgrips]

For set and forget quartz, I am a big fan of the Casio Oceanus Line.
A. Atomic/solar
B. Sapphire
C. Excellent case polishing
D. Titanium bracelets
E. World Time Function
F. Link below is illustrative. Sub 400 is available with a bit of looking

https://www.ebay.com/itm/404312809530?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1pxzhpRRYRwKwuxsdg796BQ55&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-166974-028196-7&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=404312809530&targetid=1893836063412&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9023226&poi=&campaignid=19899041475&mkgroupid=144884191862&rlsatarget=pla-1893836063412&abcId=9310216&merchantid=425244561&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_5unBhCMARIsACZyzS2sfnQBxSsPj9LqXMfL lQRKUm2-7ekZM7GUvEy_pcA_g-S3G4bmNssaAnKgEALw_wcB