Tips from Michael Voigt

[cornstalker]

https://youtu.be/cBk-X54m_YA

The biggest thing I got out of this is that I need to work on my trigger finger dexterity. I never realized how stiff my second knuckle is until I tried the thing with the pen from the video. Lots of other good stuff in here.

[Doc_Glock]

This short video is one of the most helpful I have seen. His style of teaching broke through some barriers for me.

My trigger control will definitely improve.

[cornstalker]

This short video is one of the most helpful I have seen. His style of teaching broke through some barriers for me.

My trigger control will definitely improve.

Any chance that you would wanna type up some of the info you shared on the phone? (i.e. how the finger muscles work and how it relates to Voigt's explanation on the video) I know I have been guilty of trying to press the trigger with the distal phalanx with a curling motion. Concentrating on bending the second knuckle to press the trigger has made an immediate difference in my one handed shooting.

[okie john]

Massively helpful. Thanks.


Okie John

[Doc_Glock]

Any chance that you would wanna type up some of the info you shared on the phone? (i.e. how the finger muscles work and how it relates to Voigt's explanation on the video) I know I have been guilty of trying to press the trigger with the distal phalanx with a curling motion. Concentrating on bending the second knuckle to press the trigger has made an immediate difference in my one handed shooting.

I also noticed the difference most one handed.

Essentialy as he describes trigger motion, he is bending his PIP joint only. To do this you use the flexor digitorum superficialis (FDS) muscle. This muscle is independent to each finger. The FD profundis (FDP) muscle is not independent and bends the distal joint. I can easily learn to just relax the index finger and focus on bending just the PIP joint. In this case, the distal joint may be a little floppy, but it doesn’t really matter, the trigger is going straight back.

I think this is what a lot of instructors mean when they say “isolate the trigger finger” they just haven’t explained it this clearly. I find this a little easier to do if I extend at the MCP joint. This is really easy to practice, even without a gun in hand.

[cornstalker]

I find this a little easier to do if I extend at the MCP joint.

I was with you right up until here. What's that mean?

[Doc_Glock]

I was with you right up until here. What's that mean?


31992

[cornstalker]

Way cool, thank you.

I am afraid I still haven't grasped what it means to "extend" at the MCP joint.

[Doc_Glock]

Way cool, thank you.

I am afraid I still haven't grasped what it means to "extend" at the MCP joint.

Extend= move away from palm, Flex= move toward palm.

Close hand to fist, extend index MCP til nearly straight. Hold it there while flexing and extending index PIP. This is the motion Voight recommends we use for activating the trigger. I like it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181104/23cd4433a8d487c73cd41f33ed1ba2e8.jpg

[cornstalker]

Extend= move away from palm, Flex= move toward palm.

Close hand to fist, extend index MCP til nearly straight. Hold it there while flexing and extending index PIP. This is the motion Voight recommends we use for activating the trigger. I like it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181104/23cd4433a8d487c73cd41f33ed1ba2e8.jpg

Alright, cool. I am doing it right. Thanks for the details and sorry for being a little dense on that one. Just wanted to make sure I understood completely.

[taadski]

First of all, FUCK cancer. And RIP Mr. Voigt. :(



I find this a little easier to do if I extend at the MCP joint. This is really easy to practice, even without a gun in hand.

This is something Avery has touted for a long time, in not so many words. The gist being that adding a bit tension from extension of the MCP joint helps stabilize the upper finger so it's easier to isolate the PIP joint.




Way cool, thank you.

I am afraid I still haven't grasped what it means to "extend" at the MCP joint.


MCP joint in partial flexion:

https://i.imgur.com/2mB8wvtl.jpg


And in extension:

https://i.imgur.com/3ahfqael.jpg

[Doc_Glock]

First of all, FUCK cancer. And RIP Mr. Voigt. :(




This is something Avery has touted for a long time, in not so many words. The gist being that adding a bit tension from extension of the MCP joint helps stabilize the upper finger so it's easier to isolate the PIP joint.






MCP joint in partial flexion:

https://i.imgur.com/2mB8wvtl.jpg


And in extension:

https://i.imgur.com/3ahfqael.jpg

Thanks for the clarification. Glad to hear Avery also recommends this. And shit, Voight is dead! I was unfamiliar with him til now and am sad to hear of this loss. He was a gifted communicator.

[txdpd]

https://youtu.be/yDpaKJiVGKA

First part of the video is extended at MCP, flexing at the PIP. Notice that the loading pin moves in a straight straight line or one plane motion. The second part is flexing at the MCP, really just flailing, and the pin now moves in two planes of motion. The advantage should be pretty obvious, especially with one hand shooting, and not having the support hand to counteract "torque steering".

I don't know why anyone would copy me, but in rock climbing the first grip would be a closed crimp and the second an open crimp. Both types, especially the former are fraught with danger. The first time I did this was with about 8 pounds, just 8 pounds of chain, pulled a tendon in my hand and was sidelined for 8 months. If you want to try those exercise, keep it light and low rep for the first year.

[Chain]

Haven't watched the video yet, but all this discussion of the finger joint has me wondering, dang, hope this doesn't end up getting in my head too much! I *think* I already move my finger as recommended, but am kinda second guessing now until I can get out to the range. :confused:

[CCT125US]

Thanks taadski and txdpd. That is visually very helpful

[HCountyGuy]

Excellent video as well as the visuals from other members.

Really focusing on my own finger movement I can see I have pretty good isolation past the MCP joint. I am noticing I have a tendency to flex the base of my finger outward slightly during my trigger press. So by extending my finger below the MCP outward I get a far more consistently straight press.

[txdpd]

https://youtu.be/z9tnQxsJS7A

I think this video does a less terrible job at showing trigger pulls.

1st few reps are extended MCP, flexing PIP, moving the DIP (last joint) from flexion to hyper extension, with pressure centered on the pad of the finger. That's a fairly straight trigger press.
2nd set of reps are everything in flexion and flexing the MCP, that steers the gun to the left.
3rd set of reps are everything in flexion and extending the MCP, that steers the gun to the right.
4th set is pressure centered on the DIP joint, everything in flexion and flexing all joints, it's a fairly straight pull due to counteracting pressures. It "works" even though it's "wrong".
5th set is tip of the finger on the trigger, pretty obvious that no matter how this is done it's steering the gun left.

[jeffhughes]

First of all, FUCK cancer. And RIP Mr. Voigt. :(


No shit, one of the very best people you'd ever meet.

When one ROs major matches one learns a lot about shooters. I learned Mike was a first class guy. Always the first to reset or help his competitors, and always the first to genuinely thank the RO and Score Keeper after the last target was taped.

He never seemed to take himself too seriously. Mike was a real pleasure to be around.

Cancer sucks.

[Dwylie]

I came to the same conclusion as Mr Voight. If I’d have seen that video, I’d have saved 100,000 rds of practice ammo.

If you can tolerate my writing, I did a blog post on this.

http://patriotfirearmstraining.azurewebsites.net/2018/07/05/trigger-pull/

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I came to the same conclusion as Mr Voight. If I’d have seen that video, I’d have saved 100,000 rds of practice ammo.

If you can tolerate my writing, I did a blog post on this.

http://patriotfirearmstraining.azurewebsites.net/2018/07/05/trigger-pull/

Excellent Article!

Thinking of it simply as the first knuckle traveling in the correct direction relative to the palm is a nice concise way of understanding what it means to "pull the trigger straight back"

[45dotACP]

Damn it we are diminished by Mike Voight's passing.

Also, those surefire clips have some legitimately good advice.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[cistercian]

I enjoyed this post a lot. Thank you to the OP!!!

I too am saddened at the passing of Mr Voigt. His video was excellent!

[JohnO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB8iFUnz_gI

[PD Sgt.]

I saw that Pannone video earlier, very high praise indeed.

[guymontag]

Awesome share, thanks for this thread. Sad to hear of his passing.