4-Seater Side-by-side

[rob_s]

I'm passively interested in getting one of these. It won't be used for hunting, and my property is just over an acre so not needed for work. I'm thinking it would mostly be used for off-roading in my area with the fam, although as of this moment I'm not sure how much opportunity there is for that.

Anyone have one? What do you use it for or do with it? Do you like the one you have? Would you rather have something different? If so, what? And why?

Anything else I need to know?

[OlongJohnson]

All that I've seen anywhere close to your area ended up with lifted suspensions and tractor-looking tires. Money pits if ever there was such a thing.

Also, I hate mud.

[Guerrero]

http://mckearydesigns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/4holerIMG_7374.jpg

[JRB]

All that I've seen anywhere close to your area ended up with lifted suspensions and tractor-looking tires. Money pits if ever there was such a thing.

Also, I hate mud.

Similar out here, too. At the shop I managed, we installed and tuned a turbo kit on a Polaris Razor. While the net result was over 225hp at the wheels and a ton of fun to throw around on dirt, the owner likely had $30-35k tied up in that thing between buying it, building the engine, the turbo setup, fuel system, engine managment, suspension, stereo, etc. All for a toy that he could have sold for maybe $15k.

I'm all for blowing money on frivolous stuff if it makes me happy, and especially if it involves turbocharging, but I couldn't see myself spending that much money on what was truly a limited-use dirt toy and nothing else. For 4-seat family off road fun in that spending bracket, I'd be much more interested in a K5 Blazer trophy truck build with a supercharged LS or something like that, which could be enclosed or open top at will, have A/C, and a license plate.

[GJM]

We have a Polaris Ranger at our remote cabin. I really don’t like it as we are constantly covered in dirt when driving dry roads. Much prefer an ATV or truck. A Ranger type vehicle is very useful hunting. They can be nearly as expensive as a truck.

[RevolverRob]

A VW based buggy will be cheaper and easier to sell when you get tired of trailering it around. UTVs make solid choices for work/hunting vehicles, but as recreational vehicles - they are expensive. Especially at the lower end of skill level.

[Duelist]

I’ve used one as a tool on my in-law’s property, and hunting. Useful and effective for both.

For myself, I’d rather get a Jeep or pickup. If I’m going to have a dedicated off-road ATV that isn’t a truck or Jeep, I’d rather have a regular quad.

[OlongJohnson]

Remember that Rob is surrounded by mosquito-infested, moldy swamps and mud bogs. Not desert.

[secondstoryguy]

We were considering one for the ranch a while back till we found out that you could buy 2-3 old-but reliable 4x4 trucks or jeeps for the price of one of those things. Hell, even the cheaper used ones were $7-10K! I think they have a very specific role, maybe military, like being small enough to fit on the ramp of a Ch-46 and the ability to negotiate goat trails but for the majority of what the American sportsman does a roadworthy 4x4 is a much better choice.

Plus a 4x4 has AC/Heat and is easier to source parts for.

[Duelist]

Remember that Rob is surrounded by mosquito-infested, moldy swamps and mud bogs. Not desert.

Then I would definitely want a lifted Wrangler.

[Bigghoss]

One of the other departments where I work has some Kawasaki 4 seaters and they are universally disliked. But those dudes treat them like shit so it might be one of those things were they're shit because they get abused and then everyone blames the machine for breaking not realizing how badly they're treated.

[Nephrology]

Then I would definitely want a lifted Wrangler.

Plebe (https://jalopnik.com/here-s-what-it-s-like-to-off-road-an-85-000-toyota-lan-1764983818).

https://i.imgur.com/jyTXSgT.png

[Duelist]

Plebe (https://jalopnik.com/here-s-what-it-s-like-to-off-road-an-85-000-toyota-lan-1764983818).

https://i.imgur.com/jyTXSgT.png

LOL. A Razor and a used Wrangler are much closer in price than that thing. And if I got a Toyota, it would be a used 4Runner. Also on the list.

[littlejerry]

If I needed an ATV, I'd be seriously tempted to get a Mahindra Roxor:
https://www.roxoroffroad.com (https://www.roxoroffroad.com/)/

Unfortunately in my state there is no way to get one of these road legal, and our "offroad" duties are better served by a tractor for our land.

[Nephrology]

LOL. A Razor and a used Wrangler are much closer in price than that thing. And if I got a Toyota, it would be a used 4Runner. Also on the list.

True. Land Cruiser is my future doctor $$ purchase (my preceptor in the ER has one). Also, after pricing out many 4Runners in my time, I will probably just buy one new. Depreciation is so little there isn't a huge advantage in buying a used one unless you buy something with 100k+ miles and plan to do some wrenching. Where I live, used ones cost almost as much as new ones - may as well get the warranty... For now I settle for a crossover because I don't have the time to do real off-roading anyway. The dirt road to the range is about as hardcore as I get these days.

[Duelist]

True. Land Cruiser is my future doctor $$ purchase (my preceptor in the ER has one). Also, after pricing out many 4Runners in my time, I will probably just buy one new. Depreciation is so little there isn't a huge advantage in buying a used one unless you buy something with 100k+ miles and plan to do some wrenching. Where I live, used ones cost almost as much as new ones - may as well get the warranty... For now I settle for a crossover because I don't have the time to do real off-roading anyway. The dirt road to the range is about as hardcore as I get these days.

I am in grad school to be a school counselor. While I enjoy the outdoors, hunting, shooting, etc, any land cruiser I ever own will likely either be an antique or a gift. A Wrangler is much more likely.

My current 4x4 is a 2nd gen Durango. It does okay until trails get a bit technical. :)

[Dog Guy]

We use ours for SAR and general exploring in the high desert, and in the Sierras. There's a pretty good mix in our SAR team of Polaris and Can Am. The Can Am seem to be the leas reliable, with more weird breakdowns. The Polaris do pretty well, and the newish General is well liked. When my old Yamaha Rhino finally died, I talked to well regarded mechanic who also out rents ATV/UTVs. He says if you want to haul ass across the desert, go Can Am or maybe a Razor. If you want to go exploring or hunting and use technique over power, go with a Kawasaki Teryx. Kawasaki has a 3 year warranty; the others are 6 month or 1 year. We went Teryx. Craig Folmar at 814 Suspension, asked a bunch of mechanics who support big rides in the Southeast. They all told him they'd be broke if they had to rely on Kawasakis for repair business. He bought the Teryx. They're notably more beefy than the others. I have a friend who just bought a 4 seat Yamaha Wolverine. The Wolverine is narrower and lighter than the Teryx. He likes it so far, but they're pretty new to the market so no track record yet. I agree with others that a beater Jeep or small pickup may be more generally useful for many applications, but the UTV can be a lot of fun. Bets bet: one of each! Two is one, one is none and all that...

[ragnar_d]

We have a Polaris Ranger at our remote cabin. I really don’t like it as we are constantly covered in dirt when driving dry roads. Much prefer an ATV or truck. A Ranger type vehicle is very useful hunting. They can be nearly as expensive as a truck.
That was always my hang up for them. I looked at them when I was living in Orlando, but damn if I could figure out how to justify that expense. Probably would have been cheaper to find a 4x4 Ranger or Samurai and go from there . . . . plus it would be street legal and not need the extra expense of a tow rig and trailer.

My only real experience with them has been in a utility role. I worked in our facilities department in school and had access to HPX Gators and Kubota RTV-900 side by sides. The Kubotas were the replacements for the Gators as the school was going 100% diesel on all tractors/utility vehicles. Plenty capable on and off road, but you were gonna get wet if it was raining as they had cabs on them, but only installed them for the winter months. I was recently up in Georgia visiting a few folks and they had lots of acreage and had just got a couple Yamaha Viking 6 seaters (https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/utility-side-by-side/models/viking-vi-eps-ranch-edition). Those were fun, but definitely not wearing your Sunday best when you got out for a ride. If I had the disposable income and the acreage to play, I'd definitely consider one.

[1911Nut]

I've got one of each (a lifted Wrangler and a Polaris RZR), for use in the mountains and desert here in AZ. My Polaris happens to be a 2-seater, but they are available in the 4-seat version. We enjoy them both, but as mentioned by George, be prepared to be "covered in dirt" when using the Polaris. (It washes off)!
3184531846

[Duelist]

I've got one of each (a lifted Wrangler and a Polaris RZR), for use in the mountains and desert here in AZ. My Polaris happens to be a 2-seater, but they are available in the 4-seat version. We enjoy them both, but as mentioned by George, be prepared to be "covered in dirt" when using the Polaris. (It washes off)!
3184531846

And they match!

[rob_s]

Then I would definitely want a lifted Wrangler.

It would definitely be possible to get a used wrangler for the price of a UTV. But they’re not exactly a 1:1.

This place is about 2 hours from me and would be one place I’d get more use out of a UTV than a wrangler.
https://floridatracksandtrails.com/

We Currently have a street-legal golf cart that we cruise then neighborhood in, use for the Halloween hay ride, and occasionally take with us to sporting clays and the like. The Wrangler wouldn’t be used for those things either, but a UTV would. And there is a outs to get a 6 seat gas golf cart to replace our 4 seat electric, so it’s not much more of a leap to the UTV. The cart we have was $8k, the cart I’m looking at is ~$11k, and a used UTV is in that ballpark or only a little bit more. (And before everyone goes worrying about my finances that nobody asked you to worry about, our retirement is fully-funded and the kids college is too).

Interesting how many people have such strong opinions about these things without much hands-on. I was hoping to hear more from people that actually own and use them.

On thing that would be a downer vs the golf cart is that FLORIDA makes it pretty hard, if not impossible, to make a UTV street- is apparent,y some clause that if it’s titled as off-road then it can’t ever become on-road legal. The loophole appears to involve registering out of state, then transferring the title to in-state, already titled as a street-legal LSV and there you go. So not impossible but a fair amount of fiddle-fuck and extra cash down the drain.

If I could persuade the wife to just buy a brand new Manxster 4-seater I’d love to go that route instead.
Meyersmanx.com

[JAD]

They make a bitchin platform for a CUAS DEW. 31853

[Crow Hunter]

Something I can help with!

First decide what you want to do with it. Then decide what you can/want to pay.

A UTV can go into places that you can't go into easily with most actual vehicles. They tend to have more ground clearance, are lighter and are usually both narrower and shorter. I ride at Turkey Bay: https://www.landbetweenthelakes.us/seendo/trails/turkey-bay/ There are quite a few trails that both UTVs and trucks/jeeps can use but there are more that a UTV will fit that a Jeep won't and even more that a ATV will fit that a UTV won't.

As to what to get.

If you need to have a dumping bed and seat 4 people you will have to either go with a "limo" style stretched unit (Polaris Ranger or Can Am Defender MAX) or one of the newer "crossover" type (Honda Pioneer).

If you don't need a dumping bed you can get a short wheelbase 4 seat (Yamaha Wolverine X4 or Kawasaki Teryx 4)

If you want a dumping bed and are okay with an "intermediate" wheelbase the Kawasaki Mule Pro FXT is very nice. It has a "Trans cab" (yes, that is the actual name) that allows you to convert it to a 6 seater or a 3 seater with a tilting bed. My local dealer sells a crap ton of them. They are decently comfortable, very quiet and they use a 3 cyl Chery engine that is used all over the world in small vehicles.

If you want to go fast the RZR/Maverick/XMR is the way to go. If you are going to be doing more sedate offroading (like me) anything will work.

Wheelbase matters based on where you will be riding. If you are riding in the woods with lots of twisting trails the shorter wheelbase is a lot handier. If not, the longer wheelbase is much more comfortable and you will have a tilting bed for utility work.

Personally I ride a bunch of woods trails/mud and I do as much or more "work/utility" with mine as trail riding so I went with a Honda Pioneer. It looks great on paper but it was a giant piece of shit. Nothing but problems. Clutch slipping, noisy, hot, constantly needing adjustment, recalls constantly, no onboard storage, parts falling off, rear seats were useless. It was like it was designed by engineers that don't actually ride offroad. It is not the Honda that most people think of and I have only owned Honda ATVs up until I traded it in at a loss and bought a Can Am Defender. It is a SIGNIFICANT improvement. Much better engineered and thought out.

If I were wanting a 4 person seating but didn't need a tilting bed and wanted good quality the Kawasaki Teryx 4 is extremely good. The Teryx was on my short list and I really liked it. It is a little loud and hot in the cab (engine is mounted on midline) so you are sitting next to it but it has very good quality and has a short footprint. But you lose the tilting bed option however the seats are quite comfortable.

I would also take a hard look at the Wolverine X4. I haven't ridden in one but I have heard some really good things about it. The rear seats can be taken out so you can use the bed.

Definitely go out and try them before you buy. What works for others might not work for you.

[rob_s]

Something I can help with!

you definitely helped! Thanks for the feedback. Gave me a lot to think about.

I'm pretty sure my use-case would be


illegal neighborhood crawls
trails in management areas
structured trail riding


One thing I'm still trying to sort out is how much of #2 and #3 are really actually available in my area.

[rjohnson4405]

We have been Yamaha fans for a long time and have just used and abused a Yamaha Rhino on the farm.

It needs almost no maintenance, has literally been run into the back of a car and hit with equipment and it just will not die. If you're going to be more gentle with it maybe you don't need it but if you want crazy, frankly unreasonable, reliability we have had great success with the rhino.

When it's not being used for work, we do races around a "track" and through trails and it's easily as fun as the 4 wheelers and much safer and more accessible than dirt bikes or 4 wheelers for the inexperienced. Even the rhino is faster than it looks and plenty for us and you can actually chip it, add exhaust, etc if you need more but it's already fun and probably dangerous enough as is.

My brother just got a Viking (bigger Yamaha version) which is super nice, but he babies it and it has 10 hours on it so don't know much about it yet other than it works.

[rob_s]

We have been Yamaha fans for a long time and have just used and abused a Yamaha Rhino on the farm.

It needs almost no maintenance, has literally been run into the back of a car and hit with equipment and it just will not die. If you're going to be more gentle with it maybe you don't need it but if you want crazy, frankly unreasonable, reliability we have had great success with the rhino.

When it's not being used for work, we do races around a "track" and through trails and it's easily as fun as the 4 wheelers and much safer and more accessible than dirt bikes or 4 wheelers for the inexperienced. Even the rhino is faster than it looks and plenty for us and you can actually chip it, add exhaust, etc if you need more but it's already fun and probably dangerous enough as is.

My brother just got a Viking (bigger Yamaha version) which is super nice, but he babies it and it has 10 hours on it so don't know much about it yet other than it works.

Looks like Yamaha (https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/side-by-side) doesn't make the Rhino anymore. Maybe one of the new models is it's replacement?

Seems like the Viking (https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/utility-side-by-side/models/viking-vi-eps-ranch-edition) is more in-line with the Can-Am Defender (https://can-am.brp.com/off-road/side-by-side/defender/defender-max.html) in terms of size as they both appear to be advertised as 6-seater and the dimensions are almost identical between the two.

[Doc_Glock]

I don’t know much about them, but driving a 2 seat RZR on local trails for a couple hours went into my book as one of the funnest driving experiences I’ve ever had. It was just an amazing off road performer.

[Crow Hunter]

This resource is useful but definitely call before you haul sometimes they aren't correct.

https://www.riderplanet-usa.com/

Might help you figure out what is near you.

There is also nitty gritty to think about on parts/service/transmissions/4WD type.

All but Honda have CVT transmissions but all CVTs aren't the same design. Polaris/Can Am have a "dynamic" snow mobile type transmission. The belt is actually the "clutch" it slips to allow for differences between the crank speed and the wheel speed. They are simpler to work on but they can be hard on the belts. They will need to have a belt changed periodically as they wear and they are more likely to break but are relatively easy to change in the field with the right tools. It also allows you to change the tire size without too much trouble.

Yamaha/Kawi have a wet clutch constant tension belt design. The belt isn't the clutch, there is a separate wet clutch that engages a drum so they very seldom break belts but when there is a problem, it is more expensive to fix. It also means that there is a small window of "acceptable" tire diameters/weights that will work without causing premature clutch wear and you can overcome this by changing out weights in the clutch arms to "tune it". Not complicated but messier/harder than the Polaris/Can Am style. If you keep factory size tires it isn't a problem though.

The Polaris clutch doesn't have a mechanism for engine braking it will freewheel when the accelerator is released unless it has the electronic "engine braking" option. So if you are going downhill and you let off the gas it will the Polaris will go faster. This is very annoying on slow technical trails as you have to ride the brakes all the time or stay on the accelerator to slow down (yes, it will slow down if you give it a little gas, very disconcerting). The Can AM design has a directional bearing in it that keeps the belt spinning and engaged so it does have engine braking. Because of the clutch design on the Yamaha/Kawi (almost identical designs) you have true engine braking the whole time. If you don't have a bunch of big hills you need to creep down without using the brakes, it isn't a problem not having engine braking. I do, so I wanted good engine braking so I don't run off into the lake behind the house. :)

The 4WD designs are different as well. Polaris uses an AWD system that locks/unlocks the front wheels automatically via magnets. It is called a Hilliard system (John Deere also uses it). This works great in some situations but in others it sucks. It is great when you want extra traction to power through mud/snow if your rear tires start slipping the front automatically engages. You don't have to do anything other than have the AWD button engaged. It sucks though if you are easing down hill and you want extra traction, your rear wheels have to start slipping before your front wheels will lock in. You can't just lock it in 4WD and ease down a hill. You will often slip and then not slip and then slip. It can be kind of scary on a muddy/rocky hill next to a big ditch. It also sucks on ice but you probably don't have to worry about that. :)

The Can Am has a viscous coupling in the front diff that will lock in if you have it in 4WD and the one tire begins to slip. This means that you will lose some traction before you get more traction. It works great in snow/mud where you want/can keep your wheel speed up but isn't the best in slow rock crawling situations because you can't lock the two front wheels together without slipping but it also means that you don't have to fight the steering while you are in 4WD until you really need it. I actually got stuck with my Honda that had a locked front Diff and going through the same stuff in my Can AM I didn't so it hasn't been a problem for me where I drive.

The Kawi/Yamaha uses a true locking front diff. So you can have 2WD, "3WD" and true 4WD where the front two wheels are physically locked together. This is useful in some situations but it also means that you have to stop and lock it in to get it to work. While it is locked, it is MUCH harder to steer and the turning radius is much larger. That is a benefit of the CanAM/Polaris, they aren't locked together until something starts slipping.

The Kawi Mule Pro FXT doesn't have a locking front Diff though, just the Teryx.

Another thing to keep in mind if you are doing a bunch of road riding/yard riding is the Teryx/Yamaha do not have an unlocking rear diff or "Turf mode". Their rear differentials are locked together all the time. So when you make a turn the inside wheel has to turn the same speed as the outside wheel which means that it will slip. If you turn really sharp it will tear up your yard if you are on the road it will wear the tires faster. If you have "turf mode" you can unlock the rear diff and the tires can turn independently like on your passenger vehicle/truck.

Polaris/Can Am/Kawi Mule all have turf mode options. I run my Defender in Turf Mode all the time except when I am trail riding. It makes a big difference in avoiding tearing up the yard and I use mine a lot in the yard.

If you have any other questions I can try to help with what little I know/experience.

[OlongJohnson]

In the dirt bike world, many consider Yamaha to be head-and-shoulders the most reliable and durable.

They innovate, but aren't afraid to stick with what works. Over the past several years, all the other manufacturers went to air forks, then went back to steel springs. Yamaha stayed with steel springs the whole time, and every bike test the whole time said that their forks were the best in the business. Still are. I kinda like that engineering approach.

[CWM11B]

I'll throw in another vote to look at the Mahindra. A buddy of mine bought one with a bunch of extras for right at 16k. He was able to make it street legal for an additional 1500.00. I wish I could justify one for myself

[Crow Hunter]

Looks like Yamaha (https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/side-by-side) doesn't make the Rhino anymore. Maybe one of the new models is it's replacement?

Seems like the Viking] is more in-line with the [URL="https://can-am.brp.com/off-road/side-by-side/defender/defender-max.html"]Can-Am Defender (https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/utility-side-by-side/models/viking-vi-eps-ranch-edition) in terms of size as they both appear to be advertised as 6-seater and the dimensions are almost identical between the two.

The Wolverine is the "replacement" for the Rhino. Although there are several Chinese companies that make a Rhino clone that will actually use a lot of the Rhino parts. Quality can be good or can be total crap. Depends on which parts were used at the time they were assembled since they just randomly source parts from a variety of clone suppliers.

Yamaha/Kawi both have a very good reputation for quality/durability.

Polaris/Can Am do not. However, personally my experience with Can Am has been very good so far. (My first Can Am) They did a very good job on their "human centered design" elements. Much better than a lot of the other companies.

If I were in the market right now and didn't mind having a locked rear diff and needed 4Up I would look very hard at the Wolverine X4.

[Poconnor]

What about a mahindra roxor?

[Arbninftry]

It all depends on the crew served you mount on top! I suspect the Ma-Deuce will work on a smaller model. It did work on a Willies, back in the day. But a longer model is preferred.:cool:

A used jeep can be had for just as cheap, or be as expensive, you might get more use out of a jeep with Mickey Thompson's.

[TGS]

What about a mahindra roxor?

Does Mahindra actually make good export products?

I've been to India, where you can't safely drive common US speeds in Mahindras…… :eek:

I never would have thought to consider them for anything.

[littlejerry]

Does Mahindra actually make good export products?

I've been to India, where you can't safely drive common US speeds in Mahindras…… :eek:

I never would have thought to consider them for anything.

They are actually made in Detroit.

[OlongJohnson]

It all depends on the crew served you mount on top! I suspect the Ma-Deuce will work on a smaller model. It did work on a Willies, back in the day. But a longer model is preferred.:cool:

If you're going to get all technical, the only credible answer is an old Toyota pickup.


Does Mahindra actually make good export products?

I've been to India, where you can't safely drive common US speeds in Mahindras…… :eek:

I never would have thought to consider them for anything.

They are actually made in Detroit.

I can almost see Mahindra's North American Headquarters from where I'm sitting. If there were a few less trees between here and there, I could actually see it.

I have no idea whether the tractors are good, though.

[Poconnor]

I don’t have any first hand experience with the roxor. I understand it’s basically a license built Willy’s CJ3. I wish I could get one for street use; or a Suzuki samurai or an old Jeep. I searched my local craigslist and found several CJ5s for under 8 grand. But I don’t need another project

[deputyG23]

I'll throw in another vote to look at the Mahindra. A buddy of mine bought one with a bunch of extras for right at 16k. He was able to make it street legal for an additional 1500.00. I wish I could justify one for myself

I saw one of these at the Virginia Outdoor Show in Richmond back in August. Listed for 18K. Would be interesting to see what has to be added to make it street legal.

[CWM11B]

For NC it was a turn signal kit, lighted license plate frame, and a DOT rated windshield. Then a DMV inspector had to check it out

[littlejerry]

I saw one of these at the Virginia Outdoor Show in Richmond back in August. Listed for 18K. Would be interesting to see what has to be added to make it street legal.

Depends on each state. In GA there is almost no way unfortunately.

Otherwise it would be an awesome "kit car" for local use. 50mph speed cap definitely keeps you from going too far.

[Trukinjp13]

Been pretty happy with the Honda Pioneer 700-4. It has a shorter wheelbase and is pretty nimble compared to most.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181105/fca2858458479902f542f1f3f2d5695b.jpg

[rob_s]

Been pretty happy with the Honda Pioneer 700-4. It has a shorter wheelbase and is pretty nimble compared to most.

Funnily enough, I came to re-visit this thread, and ask about this particular model, and here was your post!

Any specific feedback you can give on yours? What you use it for, how often, experience with the back seat, etc....

[Trukinjp13]

Funnily enough, I came to re-visit this thread, and ask about this particular model, and here was your post!

Any specific feedback you can give on yours? What you use it for, how often, experience with the back seat, etc....

I use it a lot for hauling a trailer around the yard and having a real transmission comes in handy for working it. It tops out at 45 so don’t expect a race sxs. The 4 seat setup is pretty slick. I have set in the back and had a couple other guys try it out. It’s not the greatest for a full-size adult. But doable. I love that I can fold the backseats down and put in the Honda Bedliner. That way no debris gets into the seat area while folded. The tailgate works like a truck gate as well.

Trail riding is a good time as well the suspension works well enough. Once again though, if you are looking for speed this is not really it. But not many trails I go on are over 40 mph anyways.


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